Comments on: NYT College Profile Omits Some Key Facts http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2007/10/02/nyt-college-profile-omits-some-key-facts/ Hatewatch is a blog of the Southern Poverty Law Center Thu, 7 Aug 2008 23:36:42 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Chris Ricketts http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2007/10/02/nyt-college-profile-omits-some-key-facts/#comment-6358 Chris Ricketts Wed, 21 Nov 2007 19:55:11 +0000 http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2007/10/02/nyt-college-profile-omits-some-key-facts/#comment-6358 Mentioning Doug Wilson, Christ Church, New St. Andrews College and their racist views isn't even scratching the surface. Why not discuss their views on homosexuality or womens issues? Imagine what good could be done if their mindless sheep and tax exempt status were used to improve public education, instead of reducing it's funding as they are attempting to accomplish.These people are so horrible that I felt compelled to move from Moscow due to their invasion of the local political and business scene. Mentioning Doug Wilson, Christ Church, New St. Andrews College and their racist views isn’t even scratching the surface. Why not discuss their views on homosexuality or womens issues? Imagine what good could be done if their mindless sheep and tax exempt status were used to improve public education, instead of reducing it’s funding as they are attempting to accomplish.These people are so horrible that I felt compelled to move from Moscow due to their invasion of the local political and business scene.

]]> By: Michael Metzler http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2007/10/02/nyt-college-profile-omits-some-key-facts/#comment-1677 Michael Metzler Fri, 12 Oct 2007 01:19:32 +0000 http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2007/10/02/nyt-college-profile-omits-some-key-facts/#comment-1677 For the record, I deny most of "Bill's" claims and I think most the quotes are out of context; I have not changed any of my general views but rather simply deffended Phillips when he was libeled -- rather than inconsistency, this the consistent double edged sword of lady Justice, a precious rarity here in the anonymous world wide web. I should have mentioned earlier, regarding a more relevant remark, that I have never considered Wilson a 'bigot'. (see: "for Michael Metzler to call Doug Wilson a bigot") Thanks Michael Metzler www.poohsthink.com For the record, I deny most of “Bill’s” claims and I think most the quotes are out of context; I have not changed any of my general views but rather simply deffended Phillips when he was libeled — rather than inconsistency, this the consistent double edged sword of lady Justice, a precious rarity here in the anonymous world wide web.

I should have mentioned earlier, regarding a more relevant remark, that I have never considered Wilson a ‘bigot’. (see: “for Michael Metzler to call Doug Wilson a bigot”)

Thanks
Michael Metzler
http://www.poohsthink.com

]]> By: David Tyler http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2007/10/02/nyt-college-profile-omits-some-key-facts/#comment-1625 David Tyler Mon, 08 Oct 2007 19:25:46 +0000 http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2007/10/02/nyt-college-profile-omits-some-key-facts/#comment-1625 Who let the door on the mental asylum open? Who let the door on the mental asylum open?

]]> By: Bill Gafts http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2007/10/02/nyt-college-profile-omits-some-key-facts/#comment-1621 Bill Gafts Mon, 08 Oct 2007 14:22:21 +0000 http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2007/10/02/nyt-college-profile-omits-some-key-facts/#comment-1621 Michael Metzler, I didn't say that I was a member of Doug Wilson's church, and I didn't even try to hint that I was. But either way, why would that even be an issue? Why would anyone but you even care? How does posting a link to another web site make me "associated with" that web site? Michael, why did you for months regularly attack Doug Phillips, calling him a "corrupt idiot" and a "corrupt misogynist" who seeks to reduce women to a state of "slavery" in which "they get fondled, lied to, and passed around as useful objects"? You've compared Doug Phillips to Adolph Hitler. You even said that Doug Phillips might be a closet Kinist. If the things you've written <em>before</em> about Doug Phillips are true, then the SPLC would probably be very interested in hearing about it from you. But the problem now is that you've proven that your opinions cannot be trusted. You flip flop and hold your personal convictions about as firm and steady as jello on a hot sidewalk. Why, as soon as the Epsteins started exposing Doug Phillips' various wicked deeds, did you all of a sudden completely reverse yourself in your opinions about Doug Phillips, without giving any kind of a logical explanation? Why is it that ever since the Epsteins started writing about Doug Phillips did you start defending Doug Phillips? You're so gleeful about the SPLC exposing Doug Wilson. Yet it's become obvious that Doug Phillips' views on race and many other things are far more extreme and problematic than Doug Wilson's. Why are you so eager to see Doug Wilson's Southern-slavery-sympathizer views exposed and yet you've become such an ardent defender of the Neo-Confederate Christian Reconstructionist Patriarchal Dominionist and racist Doug Phillips? Funny world we live in... For the record: Michael Metzler, you are Doug Wilson's single biggest PR asset. I'm sure he must be very grateful to you. If I were going to be publicly vilified, and I got to choose my attacker, you'd be the logical choice. Michael Metzler,

I didn’t say that I was a member of Doug Wilson’s church, and I didn’t even try to hint that I was. But either way, why would that even be an issue? Why would anyone but you even care?

How does posting a link to another web site make me “associated with” that web site?

Michael, why did you for months regularly attack Doug Phillips, calling him a “corrupt idiot” and a “corrupt misogynist” who seeks to reduce women to a state of “slavery” in which “they get fondled, lied to, and passed around as useful objects”? You’ve compared Doug Phillips to Adolph Hitler. You even said that Doug Phillips might be a closet Kinist. If the things you’ve written before about Doug Phillips are true, then the SPLC would probably be very interested in hearing about it from you. But the problem now is that you’ve proven that your opinions cannot be trusted. You flip flop and hold your personal convictions about as firm and steady as jello on a hot sidewalk.

Why, as soon as the Epsteins started exposing Doug Phillips’ various wicked deeds, did you all of a sudden completely reverse yourself in your opinions about Doug Phillips, without giving any kind of a logical explanation? Why is it that ever since the Epsteins started writing about Doug Phillips did you start defending Doug Phillips?

You’re so gleeful about the SPLC exposing Doug Wilson. Yet it’s become obvious that Doug Phillips’ views on race and many other things are far more extreme and problematic than Doug Wilson’s. Why are you so eager to see Doug Wilson’s Southern-slavery-sympathizer views exposed and yet you’ve become such an ardent defender of the Neo-Confederate Christian Reconstructionist Patriarchal Dominionist and racist Doug Phillips?

Funny world we live in…

For the record: Michael Metzler, you are Doug Wilson’s single biggest PR asset. I’m sure he must be very grateful to you. If I were going to be publicly vilified, and I got to choose my attacker, you’d be the logical choice.

]]> By: Michael Metzler http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2007/10/02/nyt-college-profile-omits-some-key-facts/#comment-1603 Michael Metzler Sat, 06 Oct 2007 04:35:52 +0000 http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2007/10/02/nyt-college-profile-omits-some-key-facts/#comment-1603 For the record folks: The above two posts were unlikely written by someone in Doug Wilson's church. You should note the concern about four things here: kinism, Epstein, Phillips, and the poohs think site "with comments". The anti-Phillips/kinist back lash for my criticism of kinism and defense of Phillips is parasitical and actually has little to do with Wilson and my history at his church. Folks at Christ Church typically do not post anonymously, and I doubt any of them would want to be associated with the "with comments" pooh's think. I think this is a very important clarification. Funny world we live in . . . thanks Michael Metzler www.poohsthink.com For the record folks: The above two posts were unlikely written by someone in Doug Wilson’s church. You should note the concern about four things here: kinism, Epstein, Phillips, and the poohs think site “with comments”. The anti-Phillips/kinist back lash for my criticism of kinism and defense of Phillips is parasitical and actually has little to do with Wilson and my history at his church. Folks at Christ Church typically do not post anonymously, and I doubt any of them would want to be associated with the “with comments” pooh’s think. I think this is a very important clarification. Funny world we live in . . .

thanks
Michael Metzler
http://www.poohsthink.com

]]> By: Bill Gafts http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2007/10/02/nyt-college-profile-omits-some-key-facts/#comment-1601 Bill Gafts Fri, 05 Oct 2007 19:00:44 +0000 http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2007/10/02/nyt-college-profile-omits-some-key-facts/#comment-1601 "To all reading: there is much more to the story of Mr. Metzler than he is letting on. He is certainly not an objective witness to anything Moscownian." After reading the comments on your blog, The Other Pooh, all I can say is that must be the understatement of the year. I knew that Michael Metzler didn't have a good reputation, but I never knew he had so many serious "issues." The comments here http://poohsthink.wordpress.com are well worth the read. “To all reading: there is much more to the story of Mr. Metzler than he is letting on. He is certainly not an objective witness to anything Moscownian.”

After reading the comments on your blog, The Other Pooh, all I can say is that must be the understatement of the year. I knew that Michael Metzler didn’t have a good reputation, but I never knew he had so many serious “issues.”

The comments here http://poohsthink.wordpress.com are well worth the read.

]]> By: End The Racism, End The Hypocrisy http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2007/10/02/nyt-college-profile-omits-some-key-facts/#comment-1600 End The Racism, End The Hypocrisy Fri, 05 Oct 2007 15:47:19 +0000 http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2007/10/02/nyt-college-profile-omits-some-key-facts/#comment-1600 In <a href="http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=665" rel="nofollow">another SPLC article</a> it says, "When details of the matter came up on a local blog run by a disgruntled Wilson follower, part of the pastor's response was to liken the blogger to 'a sucking chest wound'." That disgruntled Wilson follower is Michael Metzler, the same Michael Metzler that's posting comments here. For those of us in Moscow who've personally known Michael we can attest that he really is "the emotional equivalent of a sucking chest wound." Regardless of what one thinks of Doug Wilson, one should still carefully consider the source of the information that they factor in to the question of whether or not Doug Wilson is as bad a man as some would like to think. Michael Metzler here claims to be "objective", but that strains all verisimilitude, especially when it comes to racial issues. Michael is grossly inconsistent when it comes to racial concerns, and the only time he talks about race relations is to indiscriminately and often unjustly level the charge of "racist" or "Kinist" as a weapon for attacking an opponent, whether there is any real evidence to support it or not. This isn't to say that every once in a while he may not be technically correct (even a broken clock is right twice a day). The problem for Michael is that he's often far more guilty himself of the very things that he accuses others of. Whether or not Doug Wilson is a bigot, it at least makes some sense for the SPLC to be the one to make the allegations that Doug Wilson has some misguided historical and philosophical views on slavery, the antebellum South, etc. However, it makes absolutely no sense for Michael Metzler to call Doug Wilson a bigot, and for Michael Metzler to do so actually undermines the case against Doug Wilson. One of the most disturbing things about Michael Metzler's M.O. is his manifest hypocrisy. He's not above attacking others for things that he's a gross offender of himself. For example, Michael Metzler has (understandably) attacked Kinists and Kinism. Yet he's also publicly defended one of the biggest Neo-Confederate "Christian" racists there is today, <a>Doug Phillips of Vision Forum</a> and attacked a Jewish family, Jennifer and Mark Epstein, because they've posted exposes about Doug Phillips. If one wants to get to the bottom of what's true or not true about Doug Wilson, it would be ill-advised to rely on the testimony of a manifest hypocrite like Michael Metzler. For more about the racist that Michael Metzler has staunchly defended, see the articles about Doug Phillips at http://racistchurches.wordpress.com and see also: http://graceindelible.blogspot.com/2007/01/joe-friday-on-doug-phillips-and-matt.html http://graceindelible.blogspot.com/2007/02/whirled-views-on-doug-phillips-and.html Many more can be found by Googling "Doug Phillips racist" For more about the Jewish family that Michael Metzler has attacked for writing exposes about the racist Doug Phillips see http://jensgems.wordpress.com In another SPLC article it says, “When details of the matter came up on a local blog run by a disgruntled Wilson follower, part of the pastor’s response was to liken the blogger to ‘a sucking chest wound’.” That disgruntled Wilson follower is Michael Metzler, the same Michael Metzler that’s posting comments here.

For those of us in Moscow who’ve personally known Michael we can attest that he really is “the emotional equivalent of a sucking chest wound.” Regardless of what one thinks of Doug Wilson, one should still carefully consider the source of the information that they factor in to the question of whether or not Doug Wilson is as bad a man as some would like to think.

Michael Metzler here claims to be “objective”, but that strains all verisimilitude, especially when it comes to racial issues. Michael is grossly inconsistent when it comes to racial concerns, and the only time he talks about race relations is to indiscriminately and often unjustly level the charge of “racist” or “Kinist” as a weapon for attacking an opponent, whether there is any real evidence to support it or not. This isn’t to say that every once in a while he may not be technically correct (even a broken clock is right twice a day). The problem for Michael is that he’s often far more guilty himself of the very things that he accuses others of.

Whether or not Doug Wilson is a bigot, it at least makes some sense for the SPLC to be the one to make the allegations that Doug Wilson has some misguided historical and philosophical views on slavery, the antebellum South, etc. However, it makes absolutely no sense for Michael Metzler to call Doug Wilson a bigot, and for Michael Metzler to do so actually undermines the case against Doug Wilson.

One of the most disturbing things about Michael Metzler’s M.O. is his manifest hypocrisy. He’s not above attacking others for things that he’s a gross offender of himself. For example, Michael Metzler has (understandably) attacked Kinists and Kinism. Yet he’s also publicly defended one of the biggest Neo-Confederate “Christian” racists there is today, Doug Phillips of Vision Forum and attacked a Jewish family, Jennifer and Mark Epstein, because they’ve posted exposes about Doug Phillips.

If one wants to get to the bottom of what’s true or not true about Doug Wilson, it would be ill-advised to rely on the testimony of a manifest hypocrite like Michael Metzler.

For more about the racist that Michael Metzler has staunchly defended, see the articles about Doug Phillips at http://racistchurches.wordpress.com and see also:
http://graceindelible.blogspot.....-matt.html
http://graceindelible.blogspot.....s-and.html
Many more can be found by Googling “Doug Phillips racist”

For more about the Jewish family that Michael Metzler has attacked for writing exposes about the racist Doug Phillips see http://jensgems.wordpress.com

]]> By: Michael Metzler http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2007/10/02/nyt-college-profile-omits-some-key-facts/#comment-1594 Michael Metzler Fri, 05 Oct 2007 00:51:40 +0000 http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2007/10/02/nyt-college-profile-omits-some-key-facts/#comment-1594 Yes, I did not mean to imply that I am still a member of Wilson's community. However, there is nothing about my trajectory out of the community that disqualifies me as an objective witness. I encourage all Wilson defenders to use their real name and identity -- that would seem consistent with Wilson's public teaching. Thanks. Yes, I did not mean to imply that I am still a member of Wilson’s community. However, there is nothing about my trajectory out of the community that disqualifies me as an objective witness. I encourage all Wilson defenders to use their real name and identity — that would seem consistent with Wilson’s public teaching. Thanks.

]]> By: The other Pooh http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2007/10/02/nyt-college-profile-omits-some-key-facts/#comment-1590 The other Pooh Thu, 04 Oct 2007 19:07:35 +0000 http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2007/10/02/nyt-college-profile-omits-some-key-facts/#comment-1590 To all reading: there is much more to the story of Mr. Metzler than he is letting on. He is certainly not an objective witness to anything Moscownian. To all reading: there is much more to the story of Mr. Metzler than he is letting on. He is certainly not an objective witness to anything Moscownian.

]]> By: Michael Metzler http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2007/10/02/nyt-college-profile-omits-some-key-facts/#comment-1582 Michael Metzler Thu, 04 Oct 2007 03:51:23 +0000 http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2007/10/02/nyt-college-profile-omits-some-key-facts/#comment-1582 * 'breadth' that is. * ‘breadth’ that is.

]]> By: Michael Metzler http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2007/10/02/nyt-college-profile-omits-some-key-facts/#comment-1579 Michael Metzler Thu, 04 Oct 2007 01:02:45 +0000 http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2007/10/02/nyt-college-profile-omits-some-key-facts/#comment-1579 Well, I to was a bit disappointed in not seeing more breath in the article. However, with the limitation to NSA, I believe Worthen did a fine job. As a long term 'insider' in Wilson's community, and affiliated with NSA in various ways, I'd vote here to say that NSA, when considered alone, is not shot through with Wilson's deceit and serrated edge . . . just sprinkled with it perhaps. So I can understand Worthen's moderation, given her more ecumenical journalistic task. Michael P Metzler www.poohsthink.com Well, I to was a bit disappointed in not seeing more breath in the article. However, with the limitation to NSA, I believe Worthen did a fine job. As a long term ‘insider’ in Wilson’s community, and affiliated with NSA in various ways, I’d vote here to say that NSA, when considered alone, is not shot through with Wilson’s deceit and serrated edge . . . just sprinkled with it perhaps. So I can understand Worthen’s moderation, given her more ecumenical journalistic task.

Michael P Metzler
http://www.poohsthink.com

]]> By: Gabe Rench http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2007/10/02/nyt-college-profile-omits-some-key-facts/#comment-1572 Gabe Rench Wed, 03 Oct 2007 05:26:24 +0000 http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2007/10/02/nyt-college-profile-omits-some-key-facts/#comment-1572 Mark- before stirring up your support for more money... you might want to check your facts and maybe simmer down your "upbeat" rhetoric. http://www.dougwils.com/index.asp?Action=Anchor&CategoryID=1&BlogID=4577 Mark- before stirring up your support for more money… you might want to check your facts and maybe simmer down your “upbeat” rhetoric. http://www.dougwils.com/index......logID=4577

]]> By: Christian Burns http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2007/10/02/nyt-college-profile-omits-some-key-facts/#comment-1571 Christian Burns Wed, 03 Oct 2007 04:58:37 +0000 http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2007/10/02/nyt-college-profile-omits-some-key-facts/#comment-1571 It looks like Wilson has responded. http://www.dougwils.com/index.asp?Action=Anchor&CategoryID=1&BlogID=4577 It looks like Wilson has responded. http://www.dougwils.com/index......logID=4577

]]> By: Gregory Peterson http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2007/10/02/nyt-college-profile-omits-some-key-facts/#comment-1566 Gregory Peterson Tue, 02 Oct 2007 22:37:28 +0000 http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2007/10/02/nyt-college-profile-omits-some-key-facts/#comment-1566 Christianity Today didn't mention Wilson's neo-confederate leanings in their liveblog piece: Classical Christian College Education(s) Two classical Christian colleges are at philosophical odds. Kristen Scharold http://blog.christianitytoday.com/ctliveblog/archives/2007/10/two_classical_c.html Christianity Today didn’t mention Wilson’s neo-confederate leanings in their liveblog piece: Classical Christian College Education(s)

Two classical Christian colleges are at philosophical odds.

Kristen Scharold

http://blog.christianitytoday......cal_c.html

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