The Hatewatch blog is managed by the staff of the Intelligence Project of the Southern Poverty Law Center, an Alabama-based civil rights organization.

Lou Dobbs: Once More, With Gusto

By Mark Potok on February 6, 2008 - 7:32 am, Posted in Anti-Immigrant, Media Extremism

The wild man of CNN was unleashed again the other night, launching into a furious attack (here, here and here) on the president of the National Council of La Raza, who went on “Lou Dobbs Tonight” to discuss her organization’s new initiative against hate. The initiative — motto: “Take the hate out of the Lou Dobbsimmigration debate” — is partly aimed at pundits, like Dobbs, who routinely invite racist leaders on their air and present false nativist propaganda as fact. We could go on about this, but our friend David Neiwert, over at the Orcinus blog, has already done a major exegesis on the show and Dobbs’ falsehoods, evasions and insults. One program note: A great deal of the material used by La Raza’s campaign, including a video describing various “suspect spokespeople” of nativist groups, came from the Southern Poverty Law Center, which has cooperated with La Raza in its efforts to end the defamation of immigrants. No surprise, then, that Dobbs took time out from his tussle with La Raza President Janet Murguia to falsely label the Anti-Defamation League and the Center, which publishes the Intelligence Report and Hatewatch, as advocacy groups working for “open borders and amnesty.”

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  • ken pope

    SPLC, what is the basis of your intolerance and hate towards Lou Dobbs? Are you implying that the US border patrol and border laws are racist and xenophobic?

    Be consistent, is Mexico’s enforcement of it’s southern border racist and xenophobic?

    I don’t expect an answer because you don’t have a legitimate argument. Your silence speaks volumes.

    You take positions without reason or explanation.

  • ken pope

    Becky, I love your intelligence. Are you single?

    It all boils down to respect. There are two scenarios.

    When Bush started his illegal invasions/wars I was so humiliated that I used the internet to determine the immigration laws of other nations.

    England was a possibility but they are being overrun with Muslims who are changing England’s culture by accusing the English of “racism” (sound familiar?) anytime the british defend their country (even blocking England’s attempts to make english the official language of England!).

    Canada is a possibility but they are a bit too socialist for my tastes.

    How about Australia? Maybe. Let me check their immigration laws. Hmmm, must be over 40 years old. That excludes me. Did I consider just showing up, uninvited and in violation of their laws? Of course not, I respect their laws and it is a very poor way of showing that I want to belong to their society.

    Or, I could move there with no intention of assimilating into their society; turn them into America.

    Neither option is acceptable because I RESPECT THEIR COUNTRY.

    Now, I say to the illegal aliens in this country, GET OUT! Their presence is an insult to legal immigrants.

    And, like an application for a bank loan, the bank has the right not to give the loan; just as America reserves the right to disapprove an application for citizenship. Live with it. The difference between a bank loan and a bank robbery is permission. America determines how many people we let into the country, not foreign nationals/countries.

  • Becky Lewis

    SPLC – why don’t you focus on the causes of this supposed “hate”?

    And I can tell you that there are a lot of reasons why people are upset about the uncontrolled illegal immigration. Everyone I know is fed up. They are sick of if. Enough is enough. It’s affecting our daily lives.

    Those of you who don’t live near illegal immigrants think it’s fine. But what’s happening is that there are 20+ million now in the country – growing every minute of every day. So many more communities, neighborhoods, people, cities, are feeling the impact.

    I can go on and on with real examples of the negative impacts that illegal immigrants have had in our community. But I don’t want to write a book.

    So when the SPLC wants to control the anger, it kind of makes us sick.

    It would be like an invading force, that has bombed our cities, raped our wives, destroyed our lives – and we are upset and angry about it. Then the SPLC spends its time saying “don’t say bad things about the invaders – that’s not nice and will cause problems”

    You can see why we think your organization is a load of ….

  • ken pope

    You are aware that Lou Dobbs is married to a Mexican national immigrant. You know that, right?

  • ken pope

    Pardon the delay to your response. I try not to respond when I am severely angry.

    Invasion, xenophobe, racist.

    Invasion: 12-20 million say the obvious.

    Xenophobe: Funny thing about that. I LOVE immigrants. But I want every last illegal alien deported. Apparently I am a xenophobe when it comes to illegal aliens but not immigrants(?). The issue here is assimilation versus multi-culturalism.

    The melting pot is traditionally the American way. My immigrant wife (Korean) was throughly veted. She learned a minimal amount of English and was interviewed by an INS official, demonstrating a basic knowledge of how the government works, top officials in government (Tip O’Neil and Ronald Reagan at the time), and answering a list of questions indicating a willingness and desire to become an american citizen. THEN SHE RECEIVED PERMISSION FROM OUR GOVERNMENT TO BE HERE. Green card to full citizenship in eight years.

    Now, every May 1, we have the invaders filling our streets and demanding “rights.” They have the right to return to their home countries and protest (maybe, depending on which country).

    America is a melting pot. Know English. Reject multi-culturalism. At last summer’s Miami Univision debate both Hillary and Barack gave their support for Spanish as an official US language. Assimilation? Please point out another instance in American history where this has happened. This has applied to generations of LEGAL immigrants. What makes an illegal alien more special than those who follow the rules?

    Racism: I will take 100 brown English speaking citizens over 100 white Spanish speaking illegal aliens any day. I saw a WWII movie the other day; the Americans called the Germans “krauts” (an insult). Both sides were white. It’s about culture, not race.

    Bottom line: American citizens have the legal right to be xenophobic racists. By definition, illegal aliens don’t have a legal right to be here. GO HOME.

  • Garcia

    La Raza, SPLC and the rest of you don’t speak for me. Three generations of my family came here the legal way. We didn’t jump fences, hide in trunks or gas tanks and then get rewarded for breaking FEDERAL LAW!!!! Dobbs is NOT anti- immigrant. He is anti-illegal alien. Neither one of your groups can say ILLEGAL. You use the term immigrant. They are NOT immigrants. They are ILLEGALS. I saw the above mentions show. I thought it was GREAT!! You go Dobbs!!! She was a rambling, blathering idiot. I got where I am by working hard not by demanding citizenship. What gives you the right to demand anything? You want the same rights that the hardworking, law-abiding immigrant has worked so hard for just handed to you. What makes you better than I? What makes you better then them? I worked for it. You? Jumped fences and hid in trunks. Now that is something to be proud of. I hope all the citizens of The United States of America both SPANISH, WHITE, BLACK, ETC. who came here LEGALLY, fight you every step of the way. Both on Dobbs and in the legal arena.

  • Chris

    Simple question. Does David Rockefeller fund this site?

  • To Pope:

    How many names do you use in these forums?

    “Believe me, if citizens are forced to take into our own hands to stop the invasion there will be a reason. Its called national defense.”

    What invasion is that again??? You’re just exaggerating a lot of nonsense and probably read propaganda like most extremist nativists. There’s no “invasion” taking place and then you go on to post this:

    “A disgruntled White guy who killed 5 people and injured several others for no apparent reason.”

    What does that remark have anything to do with what you’re trying say??? National Defense is called National Homeland Security, a Government Agency which has the responsibility to protect our National Security. The “citizens” you are referring to are nothing more than bunch of Xenophobes. So in broader spectrum, you do not speak for the American Citizens in general, at least not for me.

    “Its not about race”

    Race is always part of the issue on here no matter what, SPLC`s core mission is to report “hatecrimes” and expose “hategroups” that’s where “race” comes into play. In fact, racism still alive and well in this country, believe me, pal.

    “Its about language and culture.”

    Again you are incorrect. We are a “nation of immigrants” which means that more than half the residence in the U.S. are bi-lingual, meaning that people have the ability to speak multiple languages(including white people) other than English. Most employers today prefer to hire someone who can speak different languages especially the FBI, CIA, Border Patrol, Police Officers in cities nationwide, than those who just speak English alone. Over all English is still our primary language.
    The only people that have a problem with others speaking their native language around their own kind is Natavists, who are mostly linquistically inept. Even Black people have their own style. Speaking of “cultures”. Everybody has the right to indentify themselves culturally by celebrating their own Heritage in their own right. For example, if you are Irish, then you have the right to celebrate the St. Patrick`s Day etc. that doesn’t promote violence and hate as does Neo-Nazis White Power, to which, just about every American has a problem with it. That’s why Neo-Nazism will never be a national holiday.

  • ken pope

    “a disgruntled WHITE guy who killed 5 people and injured several others for no real apparent reaosn”

    Believe me, if citizens are forced to take it into our own hands to stop the invasion there will be a reason. It’s called national defense.

    And being white? Why would you single this out? It’s not about race, it’s about language and culture. Some people just have race on the brain and can’t let go of their racism (from the righteous left to the intolerant right). Racism is race discrimination regardless of one’s motives (like affirmative action).

  • ken pope

    SPLC, why the intolerant hate speech directed at Lou Dobbs, a man who merely wants US immigration law enforced?

    I still await a single instance in which Mr Dobbs has directed an insult towards an immigrant (you know, a foreign national living in the US with permission of the US goverment). My wife of 31 years is an immigrant.

    Well, surprise me, name at least one instance. Well? WELL…?

  • American Ire2008

    The way I understand it, after the “Shooting at Northern Illiniois University” yesterday by a disgruntled WHITE guy who killed 5 people and injured several others for no real apparent reaosn, in regarding “PISSED OFF`s” comments should be taken seriously, monitored and placed under survielence because his comments is disturbing which may serve as a pretext to the horrors we witnessed on the national news. Sailor boy may be right.

  • ken pope

    “What in heaven’s name does “disrespecting OUR laws” mean?” Who is “OUR?” What “laws?”

    “and trying to twist the argument as they continue to re-attempt their “takeover”.

    “Takeover?” “Twist” the argument? “re-attempt?” What has been tried before?

    That sounds paranoid.

    And what is “our laws?”

    “Games (sic) on, prepare for war….”

    Are you armed?

    Explain, please. The entire post is very disturbing.”

    - Are you really this unaware? -

    OUR laws are US immigration laws. Twist means portraying the trespasser as the property owner, that is, portraying the victimizer as the victim and the real victim (US citizens) as the bad guy, and accusing the real victim, the property owner, as racist. There is no paranoia here, just a severely frustrated citizen (as am I) who resents the disrespect of our immigration laws.

    I understand exactly what he is writing.

  • rangerjim

    PISSED OFF said,
    on February 13th, 2008 at 4:56 pm

    Games on, prepare for war….

    Chilling…………………………..Perhaps a Klebold and Harris type?

    God only knows they gave enough hints before they finally acted.

  • sailor

    PISSED OFF said,
    on February 13th, 2008 at 4:56 pm

    “Here’s the bottom line: I’m done. Discussion’s over. I will no longer tolerate the POS disrespecting OUR laws.

    What in heaven’s name does “disrespecting OUR laws” mean?” Who is “OUR?” What “laws?”

    “and trying to twist the argument as they continue to re-attempt their “takeover”.

    “Takeover?” “Twist” the argument? “re-attempt?” What has been tried before?

    That sounds paranoid.

    And what is “our laws?”

    “Games (sic) on, prepare for war….”

    Are you armed?

    Explain, please. The entire post is very disturbing.

  • PISSED OFF

    Here’s the bottom line: I’m done. Discussion’s over. I will no longer tolerate the POS disrespecting OUR laws, and trying to twist the argument as they continue to re-attempt their “takeover”.

    Games on, prepare for war….

  • TRENT LITTLE

    I hate trial lawyers. I hate Bennie Thompson; who does not represent his constituents in MS. I hate paying taxes, obeying the law, doing work aliens won’t do, paying for my health care, voting without voter i.d., getting lower wages because of alien competition, the clarion ledger jackson daily news; who race baits just like your group. Real Mississippians, born and raised Mississippians, love everyone but hate accusations by you that only make more money for you to incite more money and politicians to work for more money to get more and more money and hold power over the honest among us. I pay taxes, I obey the law, so you make up this nonsense about hate, when there is no underlying crime, only a pursuit of justice. You have more representation from taxation because of folks like me. I have no representation but only taxation, because of groups like yours. Upholding the law is not a hate crime. Not being able to afford trial lawyers to represent me is not a crime. Not being able to fund Bennie Thompson’s trial lawyer status is not a crime.

  • ken pope

    Why do those who oppose immigration laws (Mexico enforces it’s harsher laws) continue to refer to illegal aliens as immigrants?

    This is very insulting to immigrants, who play by the rules and respect the laws of their new country.

    I LOVE and EMBRACE the immigrant (my wife of 31 years is an immigrant; green card to full citizenship in eight years). Deport the illegal alien, since he has not been veted there is no knowing what his agenda or background is.

    Immigrants are the transfusion that keeps this country strong and great. Illegal aliens are trespassers who need to be removed from the property.

    One does not confer house guest status on a burglar. Respect US prerogative to establish it’s immigration program, not let the illegal alien dictate what our immigration policy will be.

  • Crossbow

    88 R.I.P. said,
    on February 10th, 2008 at 4:11 pm
    “Its amazing how much “spare” time these retirees have on their hands just by reading his L-O-N-G endless verbiage babbles…….I mean long.”

    This is just more personal denigration instead of legitimate rebuttal based on what is written. You’re wrong as usual. Sorry again, but no retiree here.

    Thanks for the compliment though in admitting you think I spend oodles of time writing when I dash out what I want to write in pretty quick order. Most of my friends and colleagues do the same, so I’m guessing you’re a high school student that labors over just a short piece and wonders how anyone could do several paragraphs in the same amount of time.

    I received my undergraduate degree 9 years ago and have been working on my masters now for a year, so I don’t have oodles of time. I work full-time also. And, unlike you, I’m married, so I’m not out chasing, as I did when I was single and was too busy with the opposite sex to spend time here.

    I’ve tried to ignore you, but it’s not possible if you address me directly, as you did again. I’d rather stick to what is written here that pertains to the stories, the comments on topic, and the rebuttals, without resorting to name calling and denigrations, but you seem to be filled with so much absolute hatred you can’t resist reducing the board to out-and-out unintelligent insults.

    Too, you can’t seem to follow a line of logic and you hop haphazardly from one thing to another oblivious to the fact what you write has been covered before and that what you might be presently saying doesn’t make sense to a person with average to above average intelligence.

    And almost all your posts are dripping with unreasonable hatred to others as well, not just me, so I’m going to decline comment on your above post.

    Sorry.

  • sailor

    “How many hate groups does the white man have compared to non-whites???(don’t count the street gangs on this one, buddy)”

    Why not count the street gangs? If any group in the country is based on hate it is them. Or should we forget about them just because you say so?

    They’re criminals as well, but their very fabric is woven in racial hate. Only the naive and immature do not recognize that as fact.

    The radical left regards white Aryan Nations as a gang and a hate group but not the Brown Berets, the Bloods and Crips, The Mexican Mafia, Brown Pride, Black Gangster Disciples, Black Geurilla Family, La Raza (yes, La Raza, the same one Lou Dobbs mentions. ) See below: http://www.gangsorus.com/usgangs.html

  • 88 R.I.P.

    Its amazing how much “spare” time these retirees have on their hands just by reading his L-O-N-G endless verbiage babbles…….I mean long.

    Once again the ancient medival bow says:
    ” Well you asked me where my referrence were supporting my position, then you go on to provide none for your own…”

    Yes I did, soley because you are the one making the assumption that SPLC is supporting a “hate” group(that’s in your own decrepit mind for that matter), if you’re trying to prove this matter, why not share it by exposing the link for all to see and judge for themselves. Nevermind me posting a referrence simply because I’m questioning your stance. And speaking of “truths”, nothing I hear on Lou Dobbs regarding immigration is truthful but exxageration at best, just so he can bolster an anti- latino movement for his own sinister agendas.

    “Your claim that there are far more white than non-white so called “hate” groups is a point that’s impossible to determined to either of our satifaction.”

    Nope, at least not for me. But indeed for you that may be the case. You always said you can “Google search” anything(let alone anybody can). As a matter of fact, I can list all the white ones here if need be.

    “I have listed several groups on this site, more than once…….”

    You haven’t listed moot. The credits you posted in recent times doesn’t indicate a HATE crime took place but the actual crime itself. Most of which were ISOLATED incidents and nothing is said to link any of the suspects involved belonging to a “hate” group, so therefore dismissed as a hate crime.

    “I do?”

    Just go back and re-read your asisine rants. You said so yourself, so quit trying to play it out both ways.

    “La Raza IS a racist organization and the SPLC suppports them, so don’t tell me I know otherwise, especially since there are millions of people who share the same and similair views.”

    I will tell you how I want it to be told to you likewise but speak for yourself though. There are not “millions” of people who “share” your views, but a smaller percentage of your group. Like the poltiticians say, “the polls don’t mean anything”. I’m talking about the nativists, white supremacists and other extremists groups who “share” your views. Not a country as a whole.

    And lastly, you ought to feel “sorry” for yourself.

  • ken pope

    “why is it that many various police agencies throughout the nation including the FBI and other governmental agencies rely on the SPLC for information on different groups??? ”

    Misguided, false emotional assumptions, and political correctness based on history and not today’s world (pay back, revenge against the children of oppressors).

    It is the new dark ages and we are undergoing the inquisition all over again. Luckily, at least people are no longer put to torture or death for defying the thought police.

    Here’s a question for you: name a single instance in which Lou Dobbs has attacked or offended an IMMIIGRANT (a foreign national living legally in the US).

  • ken pope

    Crossbow, you are right. Why, look at the racist SPLC. Under law, they support the only official sex/race discrimination (racism) on the books. It’s called affirmative action, which sets preferences for women and minorities. Logically, since there is only one group left out of affirmative (white males [god, I hate speaking in these terms that have been set against us]), creating the new, legal, and institutionalized racism. Sad.

    Oh, what’s that you say? Affirmative action is in response to the fact(?) that white males are born racist and nobody else is? Why, I do believe a review of the voting patterns in the democrat primaries show that whites (in mostly white states) are perhaps the most tolerant of all groups…

    It is real sad that people think in these terms and are not race neutral/blind.

  • Crossbow

    “How many hate groups does the white man have compared to non-whites???(don’t count the street gangs on this one, buddy)”

    Well, you asked me where my references were supporting my positions, then you go on to provide none for your own. Is it just those of us who might raise a question or two for legitimate debate required to provide authenticated back-up for what we write, but you are allowed to have what you write regarded as unimpeachable, universal truths?

    Your claim that there are far more white than non-white so called “hate” groups is a point that’s impossible to determine to either of our satisfaction, because what you classify as a hate group could be some group as benign as the boy scouts, because they don’t allow homosexuals, while you ignore a radical non-white group that espouses violence and hatred. I have listed several groups on this site, more than once, who are filled with obvious hate and have presented examples, but they have either been justified by you or ignored, so it would be of no use to do the same right now.

    You seem to be steeped in anti-white hatred and compelled to highlight “hatred” as being only a product of whites. Shouldn’t all hatred be highlighted? Is hatred any less if it comes from non-whites, which it unequivocally does and should be condemned as vigorously as any other?

    “On 2008-02-06 at 8:57am Crossbow says:
    “Supporting an obviously racist organization hardly lends any credibilty to the SPLC”

    “Like that is your own opinion, ”

    Of course it’s my opinion. That’s what this forum is about, writing opinions. Is what you put forth anything different than opinion? Or do you consider what you write as universal truths?

    And what do the police and others have to do with denying a specific point of contention? Do they verify somehow that everything the SPLC writes, every single point, is unequivocal proof? Am I supposed to regard everything the SPLC claims as unimpeachable because they have some kind of asociation with the authorities? That doesn’t make sense.

    “However, even today SPLC is still bent on reporting the “hate and injustices wherever they’re found” but to say they’re “supporting” a specific hate group is downright absurd and you know that.”

    I do? La Raza IS a racist organization and the SPLC supports them, so don’t tell me I know otherwise, especially since there are millions of preople with the same or similar views.

    Too, I’m not addressing the rest of what you write, quite frankly, because its a rambling discourse that jumps from point to point without any intelligent thought behind it.

    Sorry.

  • 88 R.I.P.

    On 2008-02-06 at 8:57am Crossbow says:
    “Supporting an obvisously racist organization hardly lends any credibilty to the SPLC”

    Like that is your own opinion, but simply ask yourself this:-why is it that many various police agencies throughout the nation including the FBI and other governmental agencies rely on the SPLC for information on different groups???
    Not to mention that public schools and universities also depend on SPLC for its “intelligence reports” for educational purposes. If the SPLC didn’t have any “credibility”, none of these institutions would associate itself with SPLC.

    “This is the one they be better off to leave alone and return to the credible work they pursued in earleir times, which is to highlight hate and injustice whereever they’re found.”

    Yeah, you’re right, back to the glory days when SPLC was once called “Klanwatch”. (How I missed that title) and they focused mainly on WHITE SUPREMACISTS par se, long before the “La Raza” and “Yeweh” was created. But the irony of ironies, you’re talking about SPLC “supporting” hate groups, particulary ‘La Raza”, well if its so, then where is your links/source indicating this??? Unless you’re one of those goons reading propaganda and false literature like good ol` Lou Dobbs here. However, even today SPLC is still bent on reporting the “hate and injustices whereveer they’re found” but to say they’re “supporting” a specific hate group is downright absurd and you know that. How many hate groups does the white man have compared to non-whites???(don’t count the street gangs on this one, buddy)

  • Mark

    “If the U.S. and Mexico(or Canada,for that matter)have agreed to allow the free movement of capital across our respective borders there is neither any just nor rational reason that labor should be denied the same rights.”

    The movement of capital has nothing to do with human migration. If you’re referring to NAFTA, the stipulations by all signatories involved didn’t include anything that involved immigration. Trade agreements are for trade.

    “The Mexican farming community has been crushed including most of it’s economic superstructure.If that had not been the intended result of the so-called free trade laws,the Mexicans,for the greater part would have remained in their mother nation.”

    Yes, it is free trade that has devastated the small growers in Mexico, causing many agricultural jobs to be lost. While the policy has definitely resulted in a higher migration of workers to this country, it isn’t correct to say there would be no immigration out of Mexico without the agreement, because many, many people who migrated here had jobs in Mexico, but they didn’t pay as well as what they would receive here. Trade agreements or not they would have emigrated here regardless.

    Many others migrated because of greed, proven by the fact they pay coyotes (Human smugglers) $3000 to $6000 up front to help them cross the border and locate to an area of their choosing. On that money in Mexico they could live for years comfortably, but they elected to go for the bigger paydays. True, those types don’t comprise the vast number of aliens, but they are not an insignificant number.

    Also, the US Border Patrol revealed that 10% of all illegals who make it into this country without being caught are criminals who come here to score. Out of 15 million that might be here now, about 1.5 million are of the criminal class.

    But the vast majority are moving north because they want to better their situations. However, most of what drives them are social benefits they never had in Mexico, including free emergency medical care, welfare, food stamps, etc.

    As to whether or not free trade justifies free movement of labor is another matter entirely, which involves moral implications rather than rules of law or policy. No matter what the argument for or against that point is it must be understood that each country entering into such agreements must consider the impact on its population and is responsible for any unintended consequences. If Bush signed an agreement that caused a million Americans to lose their jobs, Mexico is not responsible to feed them, clothe them, or provide them work.

    Too, national security and sovereignty can’t be ignored simply because an adjacent nation has people who want to move there en masse in order to earn more money. Both Mexico and the US are nations of laws, requiring no exceptions in the enforcement of statutes enacted to protect their countries. Mexico incarcerates illegal aliens coming up from their southern border, which is manned by the military. Vicente Fox announced, “They are put in detention centers; they are fed; and we send them back!” Mexico has some harsh, stringent rules, governing what non-citizens can and cannot do. The non-citizen in Mexico is almost without any rights at all.

    One of the greatest impacts of illegal immigration is the FACT that they drive down wages. I doubt that anybody will disagree with that. There are literally thousands of US construction workers without jobs, because greedy employers are opting for illegals who can be a kind of slave labor at ridiculously low wages. The very hardest hit, and those in the greatest danger of being sidelined into oblivion are black workers, who have almost been replaced entirely in the construction industry, the food industry and domestic work.

    When the raids on Swift and Co caused the deportations of hundreds of workers, those vacancies were filled by mostly American black workers who lived in the areas involved and they were ecstatic to be able to work again.

    The greedy corporations want everybody to believe that the economy will suffer if these people weren’t here. That’s pure spin in order to keep their slave labor at starvation wages. Just as in the Swift case, there will be American workers who will step up to fill the void, and the corporations will then be forced to pay acceptable, livable wages, which they loathe, I can promise you.

    No nation has the legal or moral responsibility to clothe and feed another country’s people, especially if they violated its laws and demand that they be treated with full citizenship. And especially if they loudly announce that the land really belongs to them and they aim to take it back.

    Trade agreements made for the purpose of the free flow of trade without taxation isn’t a blank check to reciprocally care for the citizens of those countries that entered into the agreements.

  • unlucky 13

    If the U.S. and Mexico(or Canada,for that matter)have agreed to allow the free movement of capital across our respective borders there is neither any just nor rational reason that labor should be denied the same rights.That is the problem.The solution is amnesty,citizenship rights and easier movement back and forth across our borders and theirs.One(capital)necessitates,no demands the other.there is no other possible solution other than to reverse legal structures as they presently exist.NAFTA,etc.opens borders to capital.There must needs be movement of labor.You cannot have one without the other.To reverse history and even time now would be a masive challenge and would,in and of itself,act to limit trade possibities.Those who oppose NAFTA should concentrate their frustrations there and lay aside the beef with workers from Mexico unless they actually have a viable solution in hand.The Mexican farming community has been crushed including most of it’s economic superstructure.If that had not been the intended result of the so-called free trade laws,the Mexicans,for the greater part would have remained in their mother nation.To turn back this far down the road in time creates massive difficulties in it’s own right.Much depends here on the continuing contribution of Mexican immigrant labor just as Mexico depends on exported labor.A just and equitable solution other than an initial massive amnesty is increasingly being complicated by they passing of time and massive integration of people,policy and economy.Careful thought about the implication of any massive response that is not essentially constuctive to mutual consent of agreeing powers,theirs and ours.would be counter-productive to say the least.If all the Mexican labor were to suddenly vanish altogether there would be a huge contraction of economic poential at the very time recessinary possibilities hang over the land.Think about it,that’s all anyone has to right to ask of anyone else.™

  • Mark

    “When did Murguria say she was in favor of unchecked illegal immigration? She didn’t. ”

    Actions speak louder than words, Ronald. Murguria has never admitted to being for unchecked immigration, but it isn’t necessary to verbalize, explicitly, a particular goal to make one’s purposes obvious, if actions unequivocally provide blatant information as to intent. She is very definitely FOR illegal immigration, but only if that immigration is for people she identifies as her own, which is exactly what she does. She is a citizen of the US. It’s unamerican and disloyal to the country she should love, and to her other countrymen of different races, to favor those of her own race over and above those of her country.

    “Latin race? There is no Latin race. You think Argentinians, Mexicans and Dominicans are all of the same race?”

    Many Hispanics in and from Latin America consider themselves to be a separate race. Actually Argentinians are mostly white, most of them migrating from Europe, and the country also includes many indiginous indians as well as a mixture of the two.

    Mexicans, by their own deomographics, declare 10% of their population as white, with the majority of them of a white/indian heritage. A fair portion of them are pure blooded indian, indigenous to that region. Incidentally, it is this group that is treated with considerable prejudice and abuse. Sub-Comadante Marcos organized the Zapatistas, who initiated an armed insurgency against the Mexican government because of abuse and prejudice toward the indiginous Indians, mostly in the Chiapas region. That dispute is ongoing right now.

    As regards La Raza’s motto it can be accurate to say that this motto is one adapted by not just La Raza, but many Latin groups as well. The worst offender for separatism is LaMeecha, but many of them adhere to the, “For La Raza todo. Fuera de La Raza nada.” For the race, everything. For those not of the Race, nothing.

    LA RAZA DEFINED: “La Raza” (The Race) is a broad term that refers to those whose ancestry is indigenous to the area of Mexico (or “Aztlan”). MEChA members refer to themselves as “La Raza” or “Raza,” but the term itself is used to indicate camaraderie among those in different organizations with the same objectives. There are a number of organizations who consider themselves to be La Raza. The most visible of these groups are MEChA, The Brown Berets de Aztlan, OLA (Organization for the Liberation of Aztlan), La Raza Unida Party, and the “Nation of Aztlan” to name a few. Although the activism of these organizations varies from somewhat radical to extremely radical, they share the same objectives, the “liberation of Aztlan.” Each follows the Raza manifesto “El Plan de Aztlan. (sometimes called “El Plan Espiritual de Aztlan”).

    Believers in the Aztlan legend insist upon the indivisibility of “La Raza” and their common goals, one of them being the need to abolish the border between the U.S. and Mexico. There is a myriad of Raza college newspapers. Some are El Popo, Aztlan News, Chispas, Gente de Aztlan (UCLA), Voz Fronteriza (U.C. San Diego), La Voz Mestiza (U.C. Irvine) and La Voz Berkeley. It is not uncommon for the writers of these publications to refer to the U.S., as “AmeriKKKa.”

    “Viva la raza (long live our race)”, “Chicano power” “We didn’t cross the border, the border crossed us” “Long live the revolution” “Esta es mi tierra, esta es mi lucha (This is my land, this is my fight)”

  • Ronald

    The comments above only illustrate the effect of Dobbs’ rantings.

    “Why would anybody be in favor of an unchecked illegal invasion if they weren’t advocates for open borders?”

    When did Murguria say she was in favor of unchecked illegal immigration? She didn’t. And invasion? Simcox thinks there are Chinese tanks waiting south of the border. Is that the invasion you’re talking about?

    “…consider their motto: “For those of the race, everything; for those outside the race, nothing.”

    That has never been the motto of National Council of La Raza:

    http://www.nclr.org/content/vi.....ail/42500/

    And the term La Raza was coined as an anti-racist statement. Jose Vasconcelos was describing the mix of influences that creates Latin American culture – indigenous people, Spanish, African. Unlike writers from other purity obsessed cultures of the time, Vasconcelos was asking his readers to celebrate diversity.

    Latin race? There is no Latin race. You think Argentinians, Mexicans and Dominicans are all of the same race?

    Immigration policy and the disastrous effects of NAFTA are worthy discussion topics, but don’t listen to Dobbs.

    Dobbs doesn’t care about the middle class any more now than he did a few years ago when he was singing the praises of his millionaire CEO buddies.

  • Mr. Ryan the anti-Aryan

    For those who are sick and tired of that flaccid fanny Lou Dobbs spouting off his nonsense and hogwash, you can boycott ol` Louie chewy at:

    http://dobbs.alipac.net

  • ken pope

    When will the SPLC stop calling illegal aliens “immigrants?” Your disregard for the facts is shameful. Do I really have to explain the difference?

    I know you are aware of the difference so why perpetuate your lie? Have you no integrity at all, sirs?

    Am immigrant has the permission of our country to be here, an illegal alien does not.

    Why do you actively undermine US law (and claim to be a LAW center)?

  • Alabama Conservative Citizen

    1. The SPLC and the JDL attack anybody who wants to control immigration, so by default you people are working for open borders and amnesty. America was founded as a European Christian nation, and both organizations want to redirect the country.

    2. “La Raza” means the “The Race.,” meaning the Latin Race. You people attack groups called “Aryan Nation” and “Our Race is Our Nation,” what a double standard.

    3. You people have never actually present any evidence against what Lou Dobbs says, you just attack his motives and brand him with silly titles. Crossbow has just pointed out the facts, and the are indisputed.

  • Carlton

    Considering that the SPLC nor the ADL can even bring themselves to say the words illegal and immigrant next to each other is indicative of their support for Open Borders. That the SPLC works with La Raza, who’s ethnic agenda is implicit in their name, goes to show the hypocritical approach to race relations employed down there in Montgomery.

  • Crossbow

    “……the Southern Poverty Law Center, which has cooperated with La Raza in its efforts to end the defamation of immigrants.”

    Come on, SPLC. Be honest. Nobody is defaming “immigrants.” There’s much criticism of illegal aliens and it’s more than well deserved. They’re driving down wages, overburdening our courts, prisons, jails, schools and health care system. Poll after poll reveals consistently that about 75 to 80% of the American population is against illegal aliens. My God the tremendous number of cities and states that are passing anti-illegal immigration laws blaringly support these facts. One of the most common complaints is that “we’re overwhelmed.”

    I saw the show referred to above, and I can tell you that Murguria’s rambling discourse was so unintelligent it placed her and her cause in a really bad light.

    Why would anybody be in favor of an unchecked illegal invasion if they weren’t advocates for open borders? George Soros’ fingerprints are all over this one.

    Muguria is a racist. If the illegals inundating the country were Eastern Europeans she would be the first to hysterically scream for border control. Even her organization which translates to “The Race,” is racist, and if that doesn’t convince anybody then consider their motto: “For those of the race, everything; for those outside the race, nothing. Google it and see for yourself.

    Supporting an obviously racist organization hardly lends any credibility to the SPLC. This is one that they would be better off to leave alone and return to the the credible work that they pursued in earlier times, which is to highlight hate and injustices whereever they’re found.