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Recapping the Stormfront Soap Opera

By Mark Potok on August 8, 2008 - 9:15 am, Posted in Podcasts, White Supremacist

On this week’s podcast, Heidi Beirich and I discuss her eyebrow-raising story about Chloe Black, the former wife of Klan leader David Duke who is currently married to Don Black, founder of the white supremacist website Stormfront. Chloe Black, who has a long movement history of her own, has been fronting for a school meant to lift black and Latino kids out of poverty. What’s more, when she insisted to reporters that she was no racist, there was a remarkable unintended consequence — a major, angry backlash from her husband’s racist supporters.

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  • madinirose

    When dealing with US institutionalized racism; you will never see an explicit government policy that favors one group over the other. It all comes down to implementation. Policymakers and those who implement policy still discriminate against those who are not favored. And yes, the same government then turns around and intacts initiatives which it thinks it will remedy the problem. But, to no avail. There is such a thing as “white privilege”, but now that discrimination is technically illegal; it is not openly expressed.

    Now, this doesn’t mean, that I feel that more laws should be passed to remedy this. I really don’t think that it will help. Despite the charges of “reverse discrimation”, affirmative action and all of the other things you mentioned; the majority of the power and wealth in the US is still in white hands. A part of this is due to discrimination. But, another part is response of those being discriminated against. The Civil Rights Movement did a fantastic job of removing the legal and strong social barriers for non-whites to move up. But actually moving up is another story. Many current black leaders are failing because they keep holding on to techniques that are outdated and ineffective. They still think it’s the 1960s in Selma or Atlanta or Birmingham or another southern city where the those marches took place. Needless to say, times have changed.

    And once again, I must disagree with you about David Duke. He is a supremacist. He has articles on his website that say that blacks are inferior to whites. He claims that scientific studies can prove this. These studies supposedly prove why affirmative action, etc. have not been successful. This is basically what this movement is trying to do now. They are trying to show that their racist views can be proven by science. And if they can sell people on that then they can say that they are not racist; they are only being realistic. I’m sorry, but I just don’t buy it.

    One of these so-called scientific studies state that brain-size and intelligence are related to penis size. The bigger the penis; the smaller the brain and the less intelligence. I had to crack up laughing when I saw this study. It doesn’t chime with my own experiences. If this bogus study were true; I know many black men who would be classified as geniuses and white men who would be classified as dummies. All scientific studies should make room for exceptions, etc. However, the exceptions from this bogus study are just too numerous for me to take seriously.

  • Jonathan

    madinirose,

    Some good points you make. I didn’t know you were Black.

    Correct, Hitler doesn’t have much to do with being White. One could argue that Hitler was in a way anti-White: French, Poles, Ukrainians didn’t seem as important as Germans. If some of the people to whom you refer were honest with themselves they probably would not be so enthusiastic about Hitler. Most of the pro-White organizations, with which I’m familiar either never mention Hitler or are anti-Hitler.

    With respect to “malcontentism”, one could argue that only conservatives are not malcontents with conservatism being defined as content with the status quo. For example, Obama alleged represents “change” and thus attracts people discontented with the status quo.

    David Duke: I still don’t see him as a “supremacist”; he certainly doesn’t see Jews as “inferior”; he recognizes Jews as an intelligent, rich and powerful ethnicity.

    “White Guilt” seems to exist, although I’m free from it. But I’m baffled by the concept of “White Privilege”, I see almost no evidence of it, actually quite the opposite. Where in government policy does anything favor Whites? Immigration; government-induced demographic changes? Affirmative action? Funding of “La Raza”? In addition, there’s the cult of “White Guilt”. The list goes on …

  • madinirose

    First of all, let me just say I’m not white. I’m black. The reason why I mentioned the last bit in my previous post because just as I don’t like it when others (including other blacks) try to claim that they have the definitive answer for what it is to be black; I’m almost certain that there are whites are there who feel the same way about white supremacy/nationalism. To quote the director of the documentary “Nazi Pop Twins,” – “What does Hitler and Nazism have to do with being white?”

    Slavyanski’s post sums up exactly how I feel about this issue. These terms get thrown around by adherents whenever the situation suits them. Sure, being a white separatist would simply mean wanting whites to live separately from other ethnic groups. However, when these same people believe that whites are superior to other races and idolize Hitler; that also makes them white supremacists and neo-Nazis. However, call them on this and they will say, “No, that’s not true. We’re just white separatists.” I’m sorry but you can’t have it both ways.

    Now, granted, the supremacy is not a term used to coin others in other ethnic groups who feel that their race is superior. It probably should. I’m familiar with the ideology of the Nation of Islam and other extremist black groups and I would definitely classify them as “black supremacists.” And no matter how you cut it; David Duke is a white supremacist. He believes that whites are superior to all other races on the planet (especially jews). He will hide behind other labels whenever convenient, but it doesn’t change the main impetus for his views.

    Not I don’t know whether or not the these white supremacists actually are losers, etc, but many of them act like it. Also, “white privilege” isn’t just something reserved for the rich and powerful. Most whites in America have “white privilege” because our society still favors thems over other ethnic groups. Now, this is slowly changing and this is why white nationalist/supremacist/separtists are malcontents. While the rest of white America is trying to overcome their prejudices, these guys refuse to. They want to go back to a time when white privilege was not only accepted, but it was the law.

    And now, I go back to my previous statement, “why does this small group of people get to define what being white is.” It has gotten to the point now that any white person who does show any amount of pride in their heritage could be seen as a racist. You talk about “white privilege”. I know you’ve heard of “white guilt.” Thanks to political correctness; nobody wants to talk openly about race (especially whites) for fear of being labelled negativity. And while nobody else is talking, white nationalist/separatist/supremacist get to defining “whiteness.” And meanwhile, on my side of the fence, we’ve got people like Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, and even Louis Farrakhan are defining “blackness.” This is BS!!!

  • Jonathan

    Slavyanski,

    “First off, remember that White Nationalists are not White supremacists, who believe that white people are superior.”

    Good clarification. There are probably lots of people who believe they are “superior”, e.g., Jews, Chinese, Japanese, etc. Who cares what they think? But one should ask “superior at doing what”? For example, West Africans are superior at sprinting. Whites build most livable societies according to surveys of where the best places to live are.

    With regard to inventions, read the “Pursuit of Excellence” by Charles Murray or “Intellectual History of the 20th Century” by Peter Watson.

  • Slavyanski

    First off, remember that White Nationalists are not White supremacists, who believe that white people are superior. They will just tell you that every significant invention in history was accomplished by whites, and that only whites have done anything great in the fields of culture and science, or that all that is good and noble in the world is “white”, and bad modes of behavior are “non-white” as in: “Hey those criminals in Eastern Europe are acting non-white.” How is THAT superiority?

    Oh and they aren’t Nazis either. They may say that it would have been better if Hitler won the war. They may talk endlessly about how Hitler should have won the war. They may drone on about how Germany was the real victim of WWII. They may challenge and argue endlessly against any atrocity claim against the Third Reich while making FDR out to be some kind of bloodthirsty madman. They might defend EVERY Fascist and Fascist collaborater from Antonescu to Tiso. They may talk about how National Socialism is the most logical form of government. But dammit, they AREN’T Nazis!!!

  • Jonathan

    madinirose,

    It’s easy to critique and dismiss an ideology as flawed by “cherry picking” certain facts or comments by individuals. For example, on the SPLC website people say that “White Supremacists” are losers, failures, malcontents, etc., but then go on to discuss the phenomenon of “White privilege” – people with wealth and power must be giving this privilege, which implies that “racist” Whites are the ones with wealth and power. Seems like a contradiction to me.

    The term “White Supremacist” is a term the anti-White propagandists use, it’s intentional mislabeling. How often do you hear it used for other racial/ethnic groups? David Duke discusses “Jewish Supremacism” often, but he actually defines it as basically the desire to exploit and control others. All White Nationalist groups, which I’ve studied stress separatism, not exploitation. Would you consider Israel a “Jewish Supremacist” state?

    I agree with you that one can – and I feel should – respect other cultures (I’d also add respect of other races too). I really object to the term “mud races”. Part of having sincere respect is also respecting your own culture and race and the willingness to defend it. People who claim to respect others yet work to destroy their own culture and especially race are phonies, there is something deeply flawed with them; how can you truly respect others if you don’t respect yourself?

    “what gets me is how its adherents claim to be the best definers of what being white really is. Since when does this small group of people have the right to be definitive voice of white people in the world?”
    Don’t let them get to you. You are free to define it as you see fit. You can even log on to their forums and tell them what being White really is. You might even get to them!

    Regards.

  • madinirose

    After reading a lot on white supremacy from many sides; what gets me is how its adherents claim to be the best definers of what being white really is. Since when does this small group of people have the right to be definitive voice of white people in the world?

    You can still be proud of your heritage and still respect other cultures. Yes, European culture has many oppresive and negative aspect to it. So does just about every other culture in world. It’s a part of being human.

    And it appears that many white supremacists believe that you can had it both ways. You can call blacks and hispanics “mud races” and still claim you are not a racist. You can talk about how great Hitler was and yet not be about Nazism. And what’s worst is you actually think that these views are scientifically provable? For, me, it only shows that your grasp on “white” pride is finite and fleeting. Why should anyone rely on poor science and misconceptions to instill pride within themselves or anybody else? To me, real pride is accepting the good and bad sides of who you are, what your culture is, etc. Can anyone of these white supremacist honestly say that have real “white pride” when they can’t see the full and complete picture of what their culture is? When their pride rests on accepting all of the good and minimizing and deflecting all of the bad? And when they can’t seem to understand that the culture they claim to be protecting owes a lot to the cultures of darker-skin people (and vice versa)? Cultures change. It’s inevitable. You can preserve, but there will always be change. And what you are preserving is, in and of itself, is a product of change that occurred years before you were born.

    And where’s Ms. Black’s “white pride” when she denies believing in or involvement with white nationalism and supremacism? I guess her job was more important than her pride. That’s Mr. Potok’s and Ms. Beirich’s point! And where was her pride when she took that job in the first place? She’s helping her enemies? Since when did the KKK (in all of its era) ever want to help non-white people? Where were these “original” klanspeople”? So I guess we are rewriting history as well.

    This story exposes the contradictions and inconsistencies of a seriously flawed ideology. An ideology that its adherents grossly violate and can’t live up to. Why paint yourself in a corner like this when you will ultimately fail? Well, if you want to waste your time running on this perpetual hamster wheel, go right ahead. Just don’t be surprised if you don’t have that many people joining you. Even Chloe herself couldn’t stay on.

  • George

    Oh my God! The horror! Two extremists being intolerant of other ethnic groups.

    Mr. Potok and Ms. Beirich, so what? What’s your point?

  • http://www.alabamaklan.com Ken Mier

    Mr. Messing

    Unfortunantly, many cties have become hoods.
    I will leave it to the readers to establish how and why ?

  • Jonathan

    Here’s anti-White racism in action:

    CONEY ISLAND [Black] MOB BEATS EX-MARINES RESCUING GIRL

    By PHILIP MESSING

    August 11, 2008 –

    A wolf pack of at least 30 thugs viciously attacked two hero ex-Marines in Brooklyn after they rescued a teenage girl who was being assaulted, police and witnesses said yesterday.

    The two former Marines, meanwhile, insist that the violence had racial overtones, although the assault has not been labeled a bias crime.

    Bukler said, “Those in the crowd were yelling, ‘Hey, white boys, you’re in the ‘hood now!’ We were yelling back, ‘We don’t care – we live here!’

    http://www.nypost.com/php/pfri.....123919.htm

    I’ve been noticing a pattern how there are quite a few mob attacks by Blacks. I’m assuming that the culprits in the article above are Black.

  • http://www.alabamaklan.com Ken Mier

    I agree that every day I hear someone say that someone should assinate him. I say WRONG
    One Catholic Priest even stated to me, “Where is the Klan when we need them ? Now that was profound and I certainnly didnt give away my annonimity

    However, these folks arent only white supremicist, they have no idea who I am, and are not only White, But also Black people So my point is that there is a lot of doubt amoungst everyone.
    .
    The issue of experiance and His obvious Black Supremacy style Church affiliations have brought people from all walks of life to ponder justifiable skeptacism.

    I agree that if he is elected there will be more racial unreast, it will be a difficult task for the media to undo the negatvity without accepting their own responsibility for taunting the possibility of a comming race war.
    Hatewatch itself is guilty of fueling the fire.

    I personaly say that if Obama is our next Pres. then I will continue to be the red blooded American that I have always been and will continue to defend our people “ALL PEOPLE” for the benifit of all of our children.

    Mr. OBAMA HAS HAD FEDERAL PROTECTION WAY BEFORE HIS CANDIDACY WAS ANNOUNCED, I BELIEVE THAT IF ANYTHING “harm” HAPPENS TO HIM THAT IT WILL COME FROM THE INSIDE NOT A RANDOM SUPREMICIST.

    As far as Ms. Chloe goes, I can personally say that there comes a time in the confusion of the Supremicist world when you have to look within yourself and take inventory of your own beliefs, maybe she has realized that helping those in need is a major part of the redemption process. It aggrivates me to see people denying her genorosity and example to restore her own dignity.
    It has worked for me and as they say ACTION / RESULTS
    Anyone that has displayed compassion for a child of any color should not be doubted but uplifted and ecouraged.
    What is most ignored and dodged by those who cover THE NEW KlANS and associates is that there is a major change underway and the issue of Christianity has become first and foremost over Racism .

    The troublemakers and vigilanties are being weeded out and ousted. Good riddance, we have work to do in this New Civil Rights Era.

  • adrian anderson

    The recent report on the person threatening to harm Presidential Candidate Obama is not an isolated incident. There are dozens of white supremacists plotting to try the same thing. As the economy continues to spread distress across all ethnic groups, desparate acts will continue.

  • Ken Mier

    This is positive action for this woman to persue.

    In this day of the Nazi Infested false Klans, it is refreshing to see that she and Mr. Black would be bold enough to show that the origional Klanspeople were fine geneorous Christian, Non Violent, American Citizens

    Many things are changing , Pay attention more will be revealed.

    Ken Mier