Comments on: Once Again, the Religious Right Lies About Hate Crimes Law http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2009/05/19/once-again-the-religious-right-lies-about-hate-crimes-law/ Hatewatch is a blog of the Southern Poverty Law Center Fri, 17 May 2013 21:41:41 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Dakotahgeo http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2009/05/19/once-again-the-religious-right-lies-about-hate-crimes-law/comment-page-1/#comment-131563 Dakotahgeo Mon, 30 Nov 2009 17:31:02 +0000 http://www.splcenter.org/blog/?p=3130#comment-131563 Gene, What a sad, negative post by you. Contrary to your position, cultures never die. They are part of us and even if we do not partake of the hundreds of cultures around us, other nations and people practice them. Heritages are with us until we die, and then our offspring take over. Oh my, no no no. Cultures and heritage will never die or go away! It just depends on your attitude and ability to accompany them or to die off yourself. Have a good day and I hope you have a brighter outlook as time passes by. Peace, Dak! Gene,
What a sad, negative post by you. Contrary to your position, cultures never die. They are part of us and even if we do not partake of the hundreds of cultures around us, other nations and people practice them. Heritages are with us until we die, and then our offspring take over.
Oh my, no no no. Cultures and heritage will never die or go away! It just depends on your attitude and ability to accompany them or to die off yourself.
Have a good day and I hope you have a brighter outlook as time passes by.
Peace,
Dak!

]]> By: carrisima http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2009/05/19/once-again-the-religious-right-lies-about-hate-crimes-law/comment-page-1/#comment-98534 carrisima Tue, 09 Jun 2009 06:31:55 +0000 http://www.splcenter.org/blog/?p=3130#comment-98534 @potter From carrisima Too bad you feel this way because in the scope of things -- it's not about us at all -- It's about G-d. The most amazing thing about humanity -- we can change our minds upon receiving valid information that can impact our thinking. One gay person accused me of "strattling the fence" among other things when I expressed belief in basic civil rights for ALL people, even gays. The state court systems have given our most vulnerable children to the dogs -- to be recruited within gaydom by granting adoptions, foster parenting, big brothers org., school teachers, etc. Then our children are inundated by solicitations, TV and movie propoganda portraying gays in action. Since protecting our children is a moot issue -- then nothing else really matters. I will be among the people from california (mind you, not necessarily born again christians -- whose small numbers probably didn't even make a dent in that election) -- just hardworking folk who sees through the crooked facade and agenda of sexual deviancy and indecency -- and whose rejection of that proposition caused outrage in gaydom. Continue to call heteros who refuse to believe in your sleezy agenda "haters and homophobic". Straddling is what I did, but no more. So, with my tail between my legs I will retreat to the closet as my fellow californians obviously have done for the moment. Over and out. @potter
From carrisima
Too bad you feel this way because in the scope of things — it’s not about us at all — It’s about G-d.
The most amazing thing about humanity — we can change our minds upon receiving valid information that can impact our thinking. One gay person accused me of “strattling the fence” among other things when I expressed belief in basic civil rights for ALL people, even gays. The state court systems have given our most vulnerable children to the dogs — to be recruited within gaydom by granting adoptions, foster parenting, big brothers org., school teachers, etc. Then our children are inundated by solicitations, TV and movie propoganda portraying gays in action. Since protecting our children is a moot issue — then nothing else really matters. I will be among the people from california (mind you, not necessarily born again christians — whose small numbers probably didn’t even make a dent in that election) — just hardworking folk who sees through the crooked facade and agenda of sexual deviancy and indecency — and whose rejection of that proposition caused outrage in gaydom. Continue to call heteros who refuse to believe in your sleezy agenda “haters and homophobic”. Straddling is what I did, but no more. So, with my tail between my legs I will retreat to the closet as my fellow californians obviously have done for the moment. Over and out.

]]> By: Potter http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2009/05/19/once-again-the-religious-right-lies-about-hate-crimes-law/comment-page-1/#comment-98430 Potter Mon, 08 Jun 2009 16:50:35 +0000 http://www.splcenter.org/blog/?p=3130#comment-98430 carrisma First, until I see the rotten fruit I can't tell tell them (Christians) apart. BTW, I don't see too many kindnesses done in the name of Christ. (In fact, at my grandmas old church I heard the preacher state time and again that belief was much more important than good works. Didn't see good works, but heard a lot of what they all claimed to believe.) Secondly, you are stating to me that your understanding of your faith is not an opinion or idea. So you are stating that my experience and religious belief is wrong? Well I am used to that. I've met very few Christians who haven't told me I'm wrong and they are right. I am frustrated at Christians arguing with me over who destroyed my home. I know that the motives claimed are based on the Christian beliefs of the criminals and their families. The judge, law enforcement, parents, and my family all believed that they were truthful about their motives. you may claim that they aren't Christian, but they claim they are. Please understand, trying to convince me that ALL those Christians who are unkind aren't real Christians is like being a Muslim and trying to convince the victims of Muslim violence that they are wrong to distrust Muslims. Moderate Muslims say the same thing you are saying about hateful Muslims. I say it is time for Muslims and Christians to stop trying to convince their victims that we are wrong and do something to prove it. Police those who call themselves Christian. Convince them that they are wrong, not their victims. Then, when you hear about someone being treated poorly because they aren't Christian, do something kind for that person so that they understand not all Christians are scary. We know you by your fruits. carrisma
First, until I see the rotten fruit I can’t tell tell them (Christians) apart. BTW, I don’t see too many kindnesses done in the name of Christ. (In fact, at my grandmas old church I heard the preacher state time and again that belief was much more important than good works. Didn’t see good works, but heard a lot of what they all claimed to believe.)

Secondly, you are stating to me that your understanding of your faith is not an opinion or idea. So you are stating that my experience and religious belief is wrong? Well I am used to that. I’ve met very few Christians who haven’t told me I’m wrong and they are right.

I am frustrated at Christians arguing with me over who destroyed my home. I know that the motives claimed are based on the Christian beliefs of the criminals and their families. The judge, law enforcement, parents, and my family all believed that they were truthful about their motives. you may claim that they aren’t Christian, but they claim they are.

Please understand, trying to convince me that ALL those Christians who are unkind aren’t real Christians is like being a Muslim and trying to convince the victims of Muslim violence that they are wrong to distrust Muslims. Moderate Muslims say the same thing you are saying about hateful Muslims.
I say it is time for Muslims and Christians to stop trying to convince their victims that we are wrong and do something to prove it.
Police those who call themselves Christian. Convince them that they are wrong, not their victims.
Then, when you hear about someone being treated poorly because they aren’t Christian, do something kind for that person so that they understand not all Christians are scary.
We know you by your fruits.

]]> By: Dakotahgeo http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2009/05/19/once-again-the-religious-right-lies-about-hate-crimes-law/comment-page-1/#comment-98421 Dakotahgeo Mon, 08 Jun 2009 15:57:51 +0000 http://www.splcenter.org/blog/?p=3130#comment-98421 carrisiam, Your constant ranting makes me ashamed to be a Christian. You have no more idea of what or where hell is than a heathen. This idea that self-taught fundies who take verses out of context in Scripture for their own personal twisted views are what Jesus Christ warned us against...zealots and Pharisees. The oxymoron, "hateful Christian", may be an oxymoron to you, but it is very evident in today's "c"hristian church. You are a glowing example of such moronic thinking. Just needing to prod you a little bit...and please...you look better without the sheepskin. Dakotahgeo carrisiam,
Your constant ranting makes me ashamed to be a Christian. You have no more idea of what or where hell is than a heathen.
This idea that self-taught fundies who take verses out of context in Scripture for their own personal twisted views are what Jesus Christ warned us against…zealots and Pharisees.
The oxymoron, “hateful Christian”, may be an oxymoron to you, but it is very evident in today’s “c”hristian church. You are a glowing example of such moronic thinking.
Just needing to prod you a little bit…and please…you look better without the sheepskin.
Dakotahgeo

]]> By: carrisima http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2009/05/19/once-again-the-religious-right-lies-about-hate-crimes-law/comment-page-1/#comment-97956 carrisima Sat, 06 Jun 2009 03:17:20 +0000 http://www.splcenter.org/blog/?p=3130#comment-97956 The expression a hateful christian is an oxymoron and a contradiction in terms. It's not just my opinion or an idea. Jesus Christ, Savior of the world, made it quite clear how to recognize wolves in sheeps clothing: (Luke 13:24) The words of Christ A Tree is Known by Its Fruit (Luke 6:43-44) 15“Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are savage wolves. 16You will know them by their fruit. Grapes aren't gathered from thorns, or figs from thistles, are they? 17In the same way, every good tree produces good fruit, but a rotten tree produces bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, and a rotten tree cannot produce good fruit. 19Every tree that doesn’t produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into a fire. 20So by their fruit you will know them.” And my understanding is that that fire is very very HOT! carrisima The expression a hateful christian is an oxymoron and a contradiction in terms. It’s not just my opinion or an idea.
Jesus Christ, Savior of the world, made it quite clear how to recognize wolves in sheeps clothing:
(Luke 13:24)
The words of Christ

A Tree is Known by Its Fruit
(Luke 6:43-44)
15“Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are savage wolves. 16You will know them by their fruit. Grapes aren’t gathered from thorns, or figs from thistles, are they? 17In the same way, every good tree produces good fruit, but a rotten tree produces bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, and a rotten tree cannot produce good fruit. 19Every tree that doesn’t produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into a fire. 20So by their fruit you will know them.”

And my understanding is that that fire is very very HOT!
carrisima

]]> By: Potter http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2009/05/19/once-again-the-religious-right-lies-about-hate-crimes-law/comment-page-1/#comment-97791 Potter Fri, 05 Jun 2009 04:29:36 +0000 http://www.splcenter.org/blog/?p=3130#comment-97791 Jack, So instead of throwing the "baby out with the bathwater" so to speak with hate crimes legislation, would you have a problem with it if a hate crime was proved in a court of law? As I read the legislation, it is written to where a hate crime must be proved. But if perhaps you read it as vague, why not push for tightening the the requirements of proof rather than doing away with the protections it would offer some of us who find ourselves the victims of hate crimes. Jack,
So instead of throwing the “baby out with the bathwater” so to speak with hate crimes legislation, would you have a problem with it if a hate crime was proved in a court of law?
As I read the legislation, it is written to where a hate crime must be proved. But if perhaps you read it as vague, why not push for tightening the the requirements of proof rather than doing away with the protections it would offer some of us who find ourselves the victims of hate crimes.

]]> By: Potter http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2009/05/19/once-again-the-religious-right-lies-about-hate-crimes-law/comment-page-1/#comment-97789 Potter Fri, 05 Jun 2009 04:14:25 +0000 http://www.splcenter.org/blog/?p=3130#comment-97789 carrisma, I appreciate your kind words and believe that you believe that these people aren't Christian because they aren't like you, and you obviously are self identified as a Christian. Also you are obviously one of those "love centered" Christians I rarely run across. That gives us hope of finding common ground. What I am afraid you don't realize (completely) is that the vast majority of people where I live who claim Christianity as their religion aren't like you, and might claim that you aren't a real Christian. I hear it all the time. You do admit that there are churches that preach hate, so perhaps you will believe me when I claim that where I live in the rural deep south this is the rule, not the exception. So that being said; this is a not an unusual tone for our experience of Christianity for me and my non-Christian family and friends, albeit the most traumatic one. Up until this event, I really thought that they would limit their intolerance of my not being Christian to threats of hell and being snubbed. I must tell you that I still believe that the people who did this ARE Christians. They claim to be. I am also frustrated that you believe that I am somehow unfairly attacking/blaming Christians. Go back to my page and read all of my comments if you really want to understand me. I NEVER attacked anyone and as you will see, I never am rude or angry towards those who are to me. I have my faith too and I cannot attack anyone because of it. As far as the people who did this and the KKK are concerned, they claim Christianity. They claimed to be, therefore they are. They claimed to be practicing the beliefs taught to them, and that those beliefs are labeled Christian. Unless you can come down here and point out the REAL Christians to me, I will remain cautious of anyone who claims that label. As I stated on my channel, I can't tell who the kind and loving Christians are as opposed to the hateful ones apart until I know them well. As far as the young men who did this are concerned, they even admitted that the reason that they did this was because they heard/knew that I wasn't Christian. Back then I was pretty open about it because I mistakenly thought that people couldn't be that hateful. BTW, You are correct that they painted KKK and skinheads slogans. Turns out they weren't officially affiliated. This doesn't matter. We didn't know they weren't until they were caught. This horrible act was to scare us. It worked. It scared our non-Christian friends too, therefore it was an act of terror and therefore a hate crime and not just a trashing of someones home. Because of this, and other acts of terror in this nation, I believe that crimes designed to create terror should be recognized as such, and have a designation of hate and terror attached to them. The young men who did this only have records of vandalism. This was not simple vandalism, but anyone looking at their record would never know the true nature of their crimes. I think that is wrong. Hate crimes legislation would fix this. carrisma,
I appreciate your kind words and believe that you believe that these people aren’t Christian because they aren’t like you, and you obviously are self identified as a Christian.
Also you are obviously one of those “love centered” Christians I rarely run across. That gives us hope of finding common ground.
What I am afraid you don’t realize (completely) is that the vast majority of people where I live who claim Christianity as their religion aren’t like you, and might claim that you aren’t a real Christian. I hear it all the time. You do admit that there are churches that preach hate, so perhaps you will believe me when I claim that where I live in the rural deep south this is the rule, not the exception. So that being said; this is a not an unusual tone for our experience of Christianity for me and my non-Christian family and friends, albeit the most traumatic one. Up until this event, I really thought that they would limit their intolerance of my not being Christian to threats of hell and being snubbed.
I must tell you that I still believe that the people who did this ARE Christians. They claim to be. I am also frustrated that you believe that I am somehow unfairly attacking/blaming Christians. Go back to my page and read all of my comments if you really want to understand me. I NEVER attacked anyone and as you will see, I never am rude or angry towards those who are to me. I have my faith too and I cannot attack anyone because of it.

As far as the people who did this and the KKK are concerned, they claim Christianity. They claimed to be, therefore they are. They claimed to be practicing the beliefs taught to them, and that those beliefs are labeled Christian. Unless you can come down here and point out the REAL Christians to me, I will remain cautious of anyone who claims that label. As I stated on my channel, I can’t tell who the kind and loving Christians are as opposed to the hateful ones apart until I know them well.

As far as the young men who did this are concerned, they even admitted that the reason that they did this was because they heard/knew that I wasn’t Christian. Back then I was pretty open about it because I mistakenly thought that people couldn’t be that hateful.

BTW, You are correct that they painted KKK and skinheads slogans. Turns out they weren’t officially affiliated. This doesn’t matter. We didn’t know they weren’t until they were caught.

This horrible act was to scare us. It worked. It scared our non-Christian friends too, therefore it was an act of terror and therefore a hate crime and not just a trashing of someones home.

Because of this, and other acts of terror in this nation, I believe that crimes designed to create terror should be recognized as such, and have a designation of hate and terror attached to them.
The young men who did this only have records of vandalism. This was not simple vandalism, but anyone looking at their record would never know the true nature of their crimes. I think that is wrong. Hate crimes legislation would fix this.

]]> By: carrisima http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2009/05/19/once-again-the-religious-right-lies-about-hate-crimes-law/comment-page-1/#comment-96810 carrisima Mon, 01 Jun 2009 17:36:28 +0000 http://www.splcenter.org/blog/?p=3130#comment-96810 Dear Potter, I viewed your youtube and am so sorry for you and your family. I wholeheartedly agree this is an atrocity of unbelievable proportion, an offense and a breach of basic human rights in the USA that should effect us ALL and that should be dealt with by the feds. In fact, there are federal and state laws already in place which addresses these terrible events effectively. I hope you are in the loop in receiving this help. This country was founded partially because of religious persecution. You said that these were not organized hate groups -- but in the clip of your property scrolled across wreckage were the words kkk and skinhead. So, if these are supposed to be christians who are at fault my explanation is that they are certainly NOT christians. They are no more christian than white southern churches which promoted slavery and racism. They are no more christian than those hypocrites who practiced segregation in the south and held lynching parties. They are no more christian than the people who discriminate in housing and employment. They are no more christian than those who opposed mexicans looking for a better way of life in the USA. They are no more christian than those who hate gays or hate anyone else for that matter because of their preferences. They are no more christian than the nazis of germany. They are no more christian than the fighting catholics and protestants of Ireland. Do you really think Go-d of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob recognizes hateful, crazed people in his Heaven or on his earth? Do you really think that this is the love of Christ? Sometimes people loosely use the tag christian when they are in fact the children of perdition. So, PLEASE stop wrongfully blaming Christians. These people who did this thing to you are certainly not Christians. From one who knows -- carrisima Dear Potter,
I viewed your youtube and am so sorry for you and your family. I wholeheartedly agree this is an atrocity of unbelievable proportion, an offense and a breach of basic human rights in the USA that should effect us ALL and that should be dealt with by the feds. In fact, there are federal and state laws already in place which addresses these terrible events effectively. I hope you are in the loop in receiving this help. This country was founded partially because of religious persecution.

You said that these were not organized hate groups — but in the clip of your property scrolled across wreckage were the words kkk and skinhead. So, if these are supposed to be christians who are at fault my explanation is that they are certainly NOT christians. They are no more christian than white southern churches which promoted slavery and racism. They are no more christian than those hypocrites who practiced segregation in the south and held lynching parties. They are no more christian than the people who discriminate in housing and employment. They are no more christian than those who opposed mexicans looking for a better way of life in the USA. They are no more christian than those who hate gays or hate anyone else for that matter because of their preferences. They are no more christian than the nazis of germany. They are no more christian than the fighting catholics and protestants of Ireland. Do you really think Go-d of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob recognizes hateful, crazed people in his Heaven or on his earth? Do you really think that this is the love of Christ? Sometimes people loosely use the tag christian when they are in fact the children of perdition. So, PLEASE stop wrongfully blaming Christians. These people who did this thing to you are certainly not Christians. From one who knows — carrisima

]]> By: Jack http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2009/05/19/once-again-the-religious-right-lies-about-hate-crimes-law/comment-page-1/#comment-96734 Jack Mon, 01 Jun 2009 08:32:27 +0000 http://www.splcenter.org/blog/?p=3130#comment-96734 'When someone targets one victim because of the group he belongs too, and then commits a crime against that person because of his belonging to that group, that person is NOT the only person targeted.' Sometimes. Sometimes not. And 'hate crime' laws don't require that be the case and proven. When exactly does offensive thought/speech become criminal conduct? With a blurry line, the prosecutor will inevitably push it well into protected civil liberty territory. That's why it's both practical and in the interest of liberty to keep politics out of criminal law and keep that law clean and precise. Hate crime law has been abused (see Jacobs & Potter) and will ALWAYS be abused. It's just too tempting for overzealous prosecutors not to or they could be pressured to by a politician. And adding the federal government to the picture is just more opportunity for civil liberty to be violated. ‘When someone targets one victim because of the group he belongs too, and then commits a crime against that person because of his belonging to that group, that person is NOT the only person targeted.’

Sometimes. Sometimes not. And ‘hate crime’ laws don’t require that be the case and proven. When exactly does offensive thought/speech become criminal conduct? With a blurry line, the prosecutor will inevitably push it well into protected civil liberty territory. That’s why it’s both practical and in the interest of liberty to keep politics out of criminal law and keep that law clean and precise. Hate crime law has been abused (see Jacobs & Potter) and will ALWAYS be abused. It’s just too tempting for overzealous prosecutors not to or they could be pressured to by a politician. And adding the federal government to the picture is just more opportunity for civil liberty to be violated.

]]> By: Potter http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2009/05/19/once-again-the-religious-right-lies-about-hate-crimes-law/comment-page-1/#comment-96675 Potter Sun, 31 May 2009 21:14:38 +0000 http://www.splcenter.org/blog/?p=3130#comment-96675 carrisma and everyone else who is confused about hate crime legislation: Hate crimes legislation would have protected me and my family. My home was destroyed by self styled white supremacist. They were not members of an organized hate group. They chose on their own to destroy/vandalize our home because of mine and my family's being "out" as non-Christians. My mother still lives in this home and hides. I am afraid to admit to being Buddhist to anyone. Everyone who knows us and is non-Christian now knows how dangerous it is to be freely non-Christian. The hate based terror worked. Vandalism is not punished much; but if the hate crime (which is obvious) had been punished, their might have been jail time, or at least a record for these boys. There would also have been a message sent to those who might to similar crimes. As it was, they were able to perpetrate terror for the "price" of a simple misdemeanor. This is all that this legislation would change. It would have been a lot to my family and religious community. You can read more and see photos of our home if you wish. http://www.youtube.com/user/ruralpotter carrisma and everyone else who is confused about hate crime legislation:
Hate crimes legislation would have protected me and my family. My home was destroyed by self styled white supremacist. They were not members of an organized hate group. They chose on their own to destroy/vandalize our home because of mine and my family’s being “out” as non-Christians. My mother still lives in this home and hides. I am afraid to admit to being Buddhist to anyone. Everyone who knows us and is non-Christian now knows how dangerous it is to be freely non-Christian. The hate based terror worked.
Vandalism is not punished much; but if the hate crime (which is obvious) had been punished, their might have been jail time, or at least a record for these boys. There would also have been a message sent to those who might to similar crimes. As it was, they were able to perpetrate terror for the “price” of a simple misdemeanor.
This is all that this legislation would change. It would have been a lot to my family and religious community.

You can read more and see photos of our home if you wish.
http://www.youtube.com/user/ruralpotter

]]> By: carrisima http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2009/05/19/once-again-the-religious-right-lies-about-hate-crimes-law/comment-page-1/#comment-96207 carrisima Fri, 29 May 2009 00:34:25 +0000 http://www.splcenter.org/blog/?p=3130#comment-96207 If the bill is aimed at dissolving and destroying hate groups such as skin head and KKK -- then it would be a useful law. If the primary aim is to protect only gays with a position that the world hates them if they do not agree with their agenda, and can flagrantly challenge by law the rights of those dissenters under the guise of hate, then forget it. Propaganda works both ways. If the bill is aimed at dissolving and destroying hate groups such as skin head and KKK — then it would be a useful law. If the primary aim is to protect only gays with a position that the world hates them if they do not agree with their agenda, and can flagrantly challenge by law the rights of those dissenters under the guise of hate, then forget it. Propaganda works both ways.

]]> By: Dakotahgeo http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2009/05/19/once-again-the-religious-right-lies-about-hate-crimes-law/comment-page-1/#comment-96042 Dakotahgeo Thu, 28 May 2009 05:35:26 +0000 http://www.splcenter.org/blog/?p=3130#comment-96042 Thank you, Darius, for a well thought out position. If one person is in danger from the anti-gay or anti-everybody crowd, we all are. The problem here is that the GLBT people have been targeted more often because of who they are. This is very repressive. Thankfully, something is being done about the imbalance. It can't come soon enough! Peace, Dakotahgeo! Thank you, Darius, for a well thought out position. If one person is in danger from the anti-gay or anti-everybody crowd,
we all are.
The problem here is that the GLBT people have been targeted
more often because of who they are. This is very repressive.
Thankfully, something is being done about the imbalance. It can’t come soon enough!
Peace,
Dakotahgeo!

]]> By: Darius http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2009/05/19/once-again-the-religious-right-lies-about-hate-crimes-law/comment-page-1/#comment-95997 Darius Wed, 27 May 2009 22:56:19 +0000 http://www.splcenter.org/blog/?p=3130#comment-95997 I think the rhetoric is getting a little thick in here. This is a very good article that points out the problems with the comments from the groups that are right of center. The left of center crowd should also be aware that preaching from the heavens (so to speak) is not how you get people to understand, empathize and rethink their positions on the issue. The real issue at question is very simple. It is not about sex, homosexuality, immorality, heterosexuality, or anything of that sort. If you support hate crime legislation then including the LGBT community is very logical and the next step because, while crime has been decreasing in America hate crimes have been increasing. If you do not support hate crime legislation then whether a person is black, asian, gay, straight or otherwise is immaterial to the fact that you do not believe in any hate crime laws. So I believe that people should take step back, breath and then make rational logical arguments. Not factually false arguments like the right leaning groups or ad hominem argument like left leaning groups. I think the rhetoric is getting a little thick in here. This is a very good article that points out the problems with the comments from the groups that are right of center. The left of center crowd should also be aware that preaching from the heavens (so to speak) is not how you get people to understand, empathize and rethink their positions on the issue. The real issue at question is very simple. It is not about sex, homosexuality, immorality, heterosexuality, or anything of that sort. If you support hate crime legislation then including the LGBT community is very logical and the next step because, while crime has been decreasing in America hate crimes have been increasing. If you do not support hate crime legislation then whether a person is black, asian, gay, straight or otherwise is immaterial to the fact that you do not believe in any hate crime laws. So I believe that people should take step back, breath and then make rational logical arguments. Not factually false arguments like the right leaning groups or ad hominem argument like left leaning groups.

]]> By: Steven Terrell http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2009/05/19/once-again-the-religious-right-lies-about-hate-crimes-law/comment-page-1/#comment-95910 Steven Terrell Wed, 27 May 2009 13:04:20 +0000 http://www.splcenter.org/blog/?p=3130#comment-95910 Dakotahgeo, good morning. Glad to see you are continuing your daily dose of bluster. Treason. That's interesting. But it still proves my point. Finger pointing and blustering are the key tatics of the person who suffers from an inferiority and insecurity complex. Ilk, I love that word. My ilk, your ilk, we all have an ilk. We lost the election because there were two democrats running. One is a socialist, one is a RINO. Both very poor choices. See you later Dakotahgeo. I can hardly wait to read your next bluster/rant. You always give me my first smile and laugh of the day. Dakotahgeo, good morning. Glad to see you are continuing your daily dose of bluster.

Treason. That’s interesting. But it still proves my point. Finger pointing and blustering are the key tatics of the person who suffers from an inferiority and insecurity complex.

Ilk, I love that word. My ilk, your ilk, we all have an ilk.

We lost the election because there were two democrats running. One is a socialist, one is a RINO. Both very poor choices.

See you later Dakotahgeo. I can hardly wait to read your next bluster/rant. You always give me my first smile and laugh of the day.

]]> By: Dakotahgeo http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2009/05/19/once-again-the-religious-right-lies-about-hate-crimes-law/comment-page-1/#comment-95843 Dakotahgeo Wed, 27 May 2009 03:21:26 +0000 http://www.splcenter.org/blog/?p=3130#comment-95843 Steve, Maybe that is why you and your ilk lost the last two elections. While you were being amused, the rest of us were working to make this a better country. I would not entertain blustering in such a mess we are in. Could it be that you are more guilty of treason? Jus' wonderin'! ;-) Dakotahgeo! Steve,
Maybe that is why you and your ilk lost the last two elections.
While you were being amused, the rest of us were working to make this a better country.
I would not entertain blustering in such a mess we are in. Could it be that you are more guilty of treason?

Jus’ wonderin’! ;-)

Dakotahgeo!

]]> By: Steven Terrell http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2009/05/19/once-again-the-religious-right-lies-about-hate-crimes-law/comment-page-1/#comment-95790 Steven Terrell Tue, 26 May 2009 21:27:21 +0000 http://www.splcenter.org/blog/?p=3130#comment-95790 Dakotahgeo, once again you make my point. More hate filled, derogatory comments. Experience has taught me one thing, a person who resorts to personal attacks in a debate of issues does so because they are trying to defend their indefensible stance on the issue. They haven't any facts so they bluster. It's like they bring a knife to a gun fight and then whine when losing. Please continue with your bluster. I find you highly amusing and your true colors shine forth. Dakotahgeo, once again you make my point. More hate filled, derogatory comments.

Experience has taught me one thing, a person who resorts to personal attacks in a debate of issues does so because they are trying to defend their indefensible stance on the issue. They haven’t any facts so they bluster. It’s like they bring a knife to a gun fight and then whine when losing.

Please continue with your bluster. I find you highly amusing and your true colors shine forth.

]]> By: Dakotahgeo http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2009/05/19/once-again-the-religious-right-lies-about-hate-crimes-law/comment-page-1/#comment-95768 Dakotahgeo Tue, 26 May 2009 19:27:59 +0000 http://www.splcenter.org/blog/?p=3130#comment-95768 Ahhhhhhhh, carrisima!!! You are sitting on the fence again. Make up your mind. The facts remain that most pedophiles are heterosexual, married men. How do you justify your stand with proven statistics like that? You need to do a very basic research on this entire issue before you go "Old Faithful" on us. Exercise that brain and feed it more than tofu three times a day. Dakotahgeo Ahhhhhhhh, carrisima!!!
You are sitting on the fence again. Make up your mind. The facts remain that most pedophiles are heterosexual, married men. How do you justify your stand with proven statistics like that?
You need to do a very basic research on this entire issue before you go “Old Faithful” on us. Exercise that brain and feed it more than tofu three times a day.
Dakotahgeo

]]> By: carrisima http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2009/05/19/once-again-the-religious-right-lies-about-hate-crimes-law/comment-page-1/#comment-95764 carrisima Tue, 26 May 2009 19:05:14 +0000 http://www.splcenter.org/blog/?p=3130#comment-95764 One case in point. A 14 year old relative became involved in the Big Sister program (a branch of Big Brothers Big Sisters USA). The big sister she was assigned was quite nice and amicable. But why on earth would she tell the child she was a lesbian? WHY??? This is akin to a heterosexual or homosexual man telling a child how much fun he has having sex with little kids. This behaviour on the part of the big sister was totally uncalled for in her position and out of order. There is a degree of common decency missing in the gay agenda. One case in point. A 14 year old relative became involved in the Big Sister program (a branch of Big Brothers Big Sisters USA). The big sister she was assigned was quite nice and amicable. But why on earth would she tell the child she was a lesbian? WHY??? This is akin to a heterosexual or homosexual man telling a child how much fun he has having sex with little kids. This behaviour on the part of the big sister was totally uncalled for in her position and out of order. There is a degree of common decency missing in the gay agenda.

]]> By: carrisima http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2009/05/19/once-again-the-religious-right-lies-about-hate-crimes-law/comment-page-1/#comment-95762 carrisima Tue, 26 May 2009 18:50:12 +0000 http://www.splcenter.org/blog/?p=3130#comment-95762 I believe people should live the way they wish without jamming their moral or immoral values down our throats -- ALL people are entitled to basic civil and human rights under our constitution -- whether religious or atheist. The facts are most sexual deviant behaviours are rooted in homosexuality -- we cannot ignore statistics. Be that as it may, the homosexual population is about 1 percent in the USA, yet it carries more political clout than let's say the NAACP. There are gays who are haters of those who do not share their views. There are also gays who are racists. There are varying degrees of homosexuality -- full blown homosexuality is recognizable by appearance and mannerism -- why is this? Is the agenda to show the world men can hold hands and smooch in public? Sex -- and progation by recruitment -- the agenda is solely sexual. An agenda based solely on sex is simply immoral. Hand holding notwithstanding. I believe people should live the way they wish without jamming their moral or immoral values down our throats — ALL people are entitled to basic civil and human rights under our constitution — whether religious or atheist. The facts are most sexual deviant behaviours are rooted in homosexuality — we cannot ignore statistics. Be that as it may, the homosexual population is about 1 percent in the USA, yet it carries more political clout than let’s say the NAACP. There are gays who are haters of those who do not share their views. There are also gays who are racists. There are varying degrees of homosexuality — full blown homosexuality is recognizable by appearance and mannerism — why is this? Is the agenda to show the world men can hold hands and smooch in public? Sex — and progation by recruitment — the agenda is solely sexual. An agenda based solely on sex is simply immoral. Hand holding notwithstanding.

]]> By: Dakotahgeo http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2009/05/19/once-again-the-religious-right-lies-about-hate-crimes-law/comment-page-1/#comment-95701 Dakotahgeo Tue, 26 May 2009 13:17:41 +0000 http://www.splcenter.org/blog/?p=3130#comment-95701 Thank you, Andy Armitage! My feelings exactly! Every once in a while I see two men kissing and sometimes they act embarrassed when they see me smiling. I love to go up to them, ask them why they are embarrassed, and congratulate them for being true to themselves and to the public people who support them. Totally beautiful! Again, my Thanks! Pastor Dak! Thank you, Andy Armitage!
My feelings exactly! Every once in a while I see two men kissing and sometimes they act embarrassed when they see me smiling.
I love to go up to them, ask them why they are embarrassed, and congratulate them for being true to themselves and to the public people who support them.
Totally beautiful!
Again, my Thanks!
Pastor Dak!

]]> By: Dakotahgeo http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2009/05/19/once-again-the-religious-right-lies-about-hate-crimes-law/comment-page-1/#comment-95699 Dakotahgeo Tue, 26 May 2009 13:13:22 +0000 http://www.splcenter.org/blog/?p=3130#comment-95699 Steve Terrell, thank you for your misguided post, heh heh heh. No,actually, I'm a very non-hateful person...toward human beings and animals. You do not fit into either category. I stand by my posts. I've seen enough violence against the GLBT population to support my stand. The Matthew Shepard Hate Crime only makes it possible to investigate the crimes and bring charges forward when proven. C'mon now, you really are a kindergarten dropout, right? Think for yourself and read the facts. Don't just believe the swill that your RRR conservative friends vomit out for your pleasure. And I can't believe you have more than 3 teeth. You should have brushed more often sans the fluoride. Heh heh heh. Pastor Dak Pastor/Chaplain Steve Terrell, thank you for your misguided post, heh heh heh.
No,actually, I’m a very non-hateful person…toward human beings and animals. You do not fit into either category.
I stand by my posts. I’ve seen enough violence against the GLBT population to support my stand.
The Matthew Shepard Hate Crime only makes it possible to investigate the crimes and bring charges forward when proven.

C’mon now, you really are a kindergarten dropout, right? Think for yourself and read the facts. Don’t just believe the swill that your RRR conservative friends vomit out for your pleasure.
And I can’t believe you have more than 3 teeth. You should
have brushed more often sans the fluoride. Heh heh heh.
Pastor Dak Pastor/Chaplain

]]> By: Andy Armitage http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2009/05/19/once-again-the-religious-right-lies-about-hate-crimes-law/comment-page-1/#comment-95443 Andy Armitage Mon, 25 May 2009 08:18:12 +0000 http://www.splcenter.org/blog/?p=3130#comment-95443 Carrisima wrote: "I admire the gay person who can covertly pull off blending in with the rest of us keeping sex where it belongs — in the bedroom — this is representative of basic decency . . ." The point is, why should they? Provided they don't frighten the horses, why should gay people hide their love while hetties can walk the streets hand in hand, kiss in public, hug to say hello or goodbye, without attracting one bigoted (or even curious) raised eyebrow. Why should gay people have to make do with, say, just a handshake or a "Seeya, buddy"? You talk out of total, unalloyed bigotry, my friend. You then spout this: "I don’t think there is a parent out there who would wish their son or daughter to be 'gay' even though in this day and age, loving parents would accept this deviant behavior posing as a legal orientation and positive lifestyle." The reason why many parents would not wish to have child who is gay is that there are people with your views of what you think is deviant behaviour. Why would a parent want to expose a gay kid to views like yours, and see that kid hated and reviled? A lot of people are gay. Get used to it, pal. Carrisima wrote: “I admire the gay person who can covertly pull off blending in with the rest of us keeping sex where it belongs — in the bedroom — this is representative of basic decency . . .”

The point is, why should they? Provided they don’t frighten the horses, why should gay people hide their love while hetties can walk the streets hand in hand, kiss in public, hug to say hello or goodbye, without attracting one bigoted (or even curious) raised eyebrow. Why should gay people have to make do with, say, just a handshake or a “Seeya, buddy”? You talk out of total, unalloyed bigotry, my friend.

You then spout this: “I don’t think there is a parent out there who would wish their son or daughter to be ‘gay’ even though in this day and age, loving parents would accept this deviant behavior posing as a legal orientation and positive lifestyle.”

The reason why many parents would not wish to have child who is gay is that there are people with your views of what you think is deviant behaviour. Why would a parent want to expose a gay kid to views like yours, and see that kid hated and reviled?

A lot of people are gay. Get used to it, pal.

]]> By: AJseemsGay http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2009/05/19/once-again-the-religious-right-lies-about-hate-crimes-law/comment-page-1/#comment-95343 AJseemsGay Sun, 24 May 2009 21:30:05 +0000 http://www.splcenter.org/blog/?p=3130#comment-95343 @ carrisima said, on May 22nd, 2009 at 7:12 pm I will always have trouble with a group whose total identity and existence is strictly sexual by its very names...(the base population do not require such identity)... ---------------------------- Are you referring to the base population that identifies as "heterosexual"? Is it "heterosexuals" that you are claiming do not require such identity? Really? Oh my. @ carrisima said,

on May 22nd, 2009 at 7:12 pm

I will always have trouble with a group whose total identity and existence is strictly sexual by its very names…(the base population do not require such identity)…
—————————-
Are you referring to the base population that identifies as “heterosexual”? Is it “heterosexuals” that you are claiming do not require such identity? Really? Oh my.

]]> By: Dauson Lovi http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2009/05/19/once-again-the-religious-right-lies-about-hate-crimes-law/comment-page-1/#comment-95126 Dauson Lovi Sat, 23 May 2009 17:06:40 +0000 http://www.splcenter.org/blog/?p=3130#comment-95126 People will fight for that which they least know about... hince the success of right wing Christianity. People will fight for that which they least know about… hince the success of right wing Christianity.

]]> By: carrisima http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2009/05/19/once-again-the-religious-right-lies-about-hate-crimes-law/comment-page-1/#comment-94961 carrisima Sat, 23 May 2009 00:12:18 +0000 http://www.splcenter.org/blog/?p=3130#comment-94961 I will always have trouble with a group whose total identity and existence is strictly sexual by its very names "gay" and "homosexual" (the base population do not require such identity) -- regardless of whether one believes that we ALL should be able to exercise our basic civil rights. Now those out there can lambast me for my stance -- but note the cool silence among the masses did not prevent the defeat of California's gay rights bill. This came as a total surprise as even free-thinkers -- generally sensible people (not necessarily christians or far righters) are hotly criticized for disagreeing with the far left agenda -- thus this is the silent majority implementing the power of the vote -- thus the overreaction is for the far left to unfairly cry "haters" thus continuing to alienate those representing normalcy. Whether we like it or not, the facts are that most deviant sexual behaviors and fetishes indicated in the article have very strong associations with homosexuality - and recruitment into the gay base -- the ONLY means of propogation. Moreover, I don't think there is a parent out there who would wish their son or daughter to be "gay" even though in this day and age, loving parents would accept this deviant behavior posing as a legal orientation and positive lifestyle. I admire the gay person who can covertly pull off blending in with the rest of us keeping sex where it belongs -- in the bedroom -- this is representative of basic decency -- but it appears that very few can pull it off. I will always have trouble with a group whose total identity and existence is strictly sexual by its very names “gay” and “homosexual” (the base population do not require such identity) — regardless of whether one believes that we ALL should be able to exercise our basic civil rights. Now those out there can lambast me for my stance — but note the cool silence among the masses did not prevent the defeat of California’s gay rights bill. This came as a total surprise as even free-thinkers — generally sensible people (not necessarily christians or far righters) are hotly criticized for disagreeing with the far left agenda — thus this is the silent majority implementing the power of the vote — thus the overreaction is for the far left to unfairly cry “haters” thus continuing to alienate those representing normalcy.
Whether we like it or not, the facts are that most deviant sexual behaviors and fetishes indicated in the article have very strong associations with homosexuality – and recruitment into the gay base — the ONLY means of propogation. Moreover, I don’t think there is a parent out there who would wish their son or daughter to be “gay” even though in this day and age, loving parents would accept this deviant behavior posing as a legal orientation and positive lifestyle. I admire the gay person who can covertly pull off blending in with the rest of us keeping sex where it belongs — in the bedroom — this is representative of basic decency — but it appears that very few can pull it off.

]]> By: Steven Terrell http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2009/05/19/once-again-the-religious-right-lies-about-hate-crimes-law/comment-page-1/#comment-94957 Steven Terrell Fri, 22 May 2009 23:29:52 +0000 http://www.splcenter.org/blog/?p=3130#comment-94957 My, my Dakotahgeo!! You said,"if it were not for the angry, biased haters". Well pal you just described yourself! Your entire post was filled with hateful and derogatory statements against conservatives. We are a "minority" according to the Democratic Socialist Party of America. Maybe SPLC will give you your own designation as a "hate group". You certainly have enough hate to qualify! My, my Dakotahgeo!! You said,”if it were not for the angry, biased haters”.

Well pal you just described yourself! Your entire post was filled with hateful and derogatory statements against conservatives. We are a “minority” according to the Democratic Socialist Party of America.

Maybe SPLC will give you your own designation as a “hate group”. You certainly have enough hate to qualify!

]]> By: Dakotahgeo http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2009/05/19/once-again-the-religious-right-lies-about-hate-crimes-law/comment-page-1/#comment-94900 Dakotahgeo Fri, 22 May 2009 16:24:17 +0000 http://www.splcenter.org/blog/?p=3130#comment-94900 Potter, I've waited a long time to read a post such as yours because I could not have written it any better or agreed with it more! People need to understand that if it were not for the angry, biased haters out there who victimize the "MINORITIES," no, we would not need "special" laws. Special...my foot! These self-appointed RRR conservatives feed on the ignorance and arrogance of their followers! I would like to see the tables turned for one day and these haters become the victims...then we would see a whole new crop of minorities "crying" for protection. Sorry, you poops are way out of your league. I don't think most of you even have a 4th grade education. Maybe you even have 2-3 teeth in your mouth. My, my!!! Dakotahgeo Potter, I’ve waited a long time to read a post such as yours because I could not have written it any better or agreed with it more!
People need to understand that if it were not for the angry, biased haters out there who victimize the “MINORITIES,” no, we would not need “special” laws. Special…my foot! These self-appointed RRR conservatives feed on the ignorance and arrogance of their followers!
I would like to see the tables turned for one day and these haters become the victims…then we would see a whole new crop of minorities “crying” for protection.
Sorry, you poops are way out of your league. I don’t think most of you even have a 4th grade education. Maybe you even have 2-3 teeth in your mouth.
My, my!!!
Dakotahgeo

]]> By: Potter http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2009/05/19/once-again-the-religious-right-lies-about-hate-crimes-law/comment-page-1/#comment-94893 Potter Fri, 22 May 2009 15:53:08 +0000 http://www.splcenter.org/blog/?p=3130#comment-94893 To those who believe that this law would give "More Rights" to minorities; (I'm talking about you, Larry.) I will explain just one of the reasons why this is not true. Hate crimes are forms of terrorism. When someone targets one victim because of the group he belongs too, and then commits a crime against that person because of his belonging to that group, that person is NOT the only person targeted. The victim is a symbol/message too other members of that group. The message is very clear: "Watch out, This could be you!" "You aren't safe either." This is why hate crime is more serious than the crime itself. People who commit hate crimes are terrorists in the purest definition of the word. So I have to ask: You're not "soft" on American terrorists, are you? To those who believe that this law would give “More Rights” to minorities; (I’m talking about you, Larry.) I will explain just one of the reasons why this is not true.

Hate crimes are forms of terrorism.

When someone targets one victim because of the group he belongs too, and then commits a crime against that person because of his belonging to that group, that person is NOT the only person targeted. The victim is a symbol/message too other members of that group. The message is very clear: “Watch out, This could be you!” “You aren’t safe either.” This is why hate crime is more serious than the crime itself. People who commit hate crimes are terrorists in the purest definition of the word.

So I have to ask: You’re not “soft” on American terrorists, are you?

]]> By: Andy Armitage http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2009/05/19/once-again-the-religious-right-lies-about-hate-crimes-law/comment-page-1/#comment-94854 Andy Armitage Fri, 22 May 2009 09:56:17 +0000 http://www.splcenter.org/blog/?p=3130#comment-94854 I found this post interesting enough to blog on the UK <i>Pink Triangle</i> humanist blog (http://ptt-blog.blogspot.com) I'm chief writer for. Nice blog (yours, I mean). Keep up the good work. I found this post interesting enough to blog on the UK Pink Triangle humanist blog (http://ptt-blog.blogspot.com) I’m chief writer for. Nice blog (yours, I mean). Keep up the good work.

]]> By: Chuck http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2009/05/19/once-again-the-religious-right-lies-about-hate-crimes-law/comment-page-1/#comment-94825 Chuck Fri, 22 May 2009 03:41:18 +0000 http://www.splcenter.org/blog/?p=3130#comment-94825 As usual, the far right fails to grasp that gay does not equal "will have sex w/anything", and continues to play the "Christians are a persecuted majority" card...also, isn't this whole "gay re-education" trend an extension of tactics used by Hitler back in the day? As usual, the far right fails to grasp that gay does not equal “will have sex w/anything”, and continues to play the “Christians are a persecuted majority” card…also, isn’t this whole “gay re-education” trend an extension of tactics used by Hitler back in the day?

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