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[KS]
Anti-Abortion Protesters Crash Vigil For Slain Doctor
KFOR News
/May 31, 2009
About 10 members of the Westboro Baptist Church bearing signs with messages like “Baby killer in hell” were an unwelcome presence at a vigil for murdered abortion doctor George Tiller.
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on June 4th, 2009 at 11:19 am
I don’t know how many people saw this, but the page from KFOR contained a poll on President Obama’s speech in Cairo with prople asked to say whether it was great, okay, awful, or that they didn’t watch it. The vast majority either thought it was awful or didn’t watch it which makes it seem as if most of the respondents either haven’t had the chance yet or don’t think it’s worthwhile talking to Muslims at all.
Which helps to understand the sort of people who either support the killing of people who perform abortions or tolerate those who do.
on June 4th, 2009 at 12:08 pm
One thing people need to remember about the Westboro Baptist Church is that their leader is INSANE. Anyone who follows him is insane as well.
on June 4th, 2009 at 12:17 pm
I guess it’s OK to terminate one million plus “real live” non-christians Iraqi’s in just 7 years, than it is to terminate a “real (live ?) potential fetus” & one Dr. What ever the answer is to this real life philosophical question maybe, I’m sure Jesus weeps.
Whatever the answer to the greater question is, one thing is absolutely certain, those of the pro-life agenda certainly do not believe in life after birth. Ergo we would not have the number of children and adults living in poverty in this, the richest country in the world.
It just goes to prove the point that regardless of the material wealth of a nation does not translate into spiritual wealth.
on June 4th, 2009 at 12:44 pm
Agreed Chris. You are exactly correct with that analysis. Obama’s speech was great, by the way.
What does it mean to be pro-life when you kill someone anyway?
Why do we have to continually repair damage that has been done by these ‘folks’?
on June 4th, 2009 at 12:50 pm
I guess it’s OK to terminate one million plus “real live” Iraqi non-christians in just 7 years, than it is to to terminate a “real (live ?), plus one Dr. who is providing a medical service. Whatever the answer is to this real life philosophical question is, I’m sure Jesus weeps.
Whatever the answer the answer sis to the greater question is, one thing is absolutely certain, for those of the pro-life agenda certainly do not believe in quality of life after birth. Ergo we would not have the number of children (children make up 20% of the homeless in amerika) and adults living in poverty and the mentally ill living in poverty in this the richest country in the world.
It just goes to prove the point that regardless of the material wealth of a nation does not translate into spiritual wealth.
on June 4th, 2009 at 12:54 pm
It seems that the Westboro Church of Self Righteousness glories in the misfortunes of others, like vultures circling. I’ve seen them in action before and the best way to deal with them is simply to line up a group of people/ police in a tight line who will shield others others from their hateful speech and signs. If they won’t move, at least they aren’t seen.
By the way, Obama’s speech was great. It showed moderation and a genuine attempt to reach out to the moderates to unite against extremists on both sides. It’s certainly going to be a hard go because we’ve killed more of their civilians than their own extremists have and they are going to be very cautious, understandably. A majority of the people are poor and unschooled and see us as foreign invaders who have come to their country and killed many of their people. Essentially, they are caught between our troops and their own extremists.
on June 4th, 2009 at 3:08 pm
“What ever the answer is to this real life philosophical question maybe, I’m sure Jesus weeps.”
Don’t these same fundamentalists believe that under the age of accountability, these “babies” will go straight on to heaven without suffering the rigors and temptations of this mortal life. That would mean that potential criminals, murderers and various other sinners are actually saved from hell and move right on to go – collect $200.
As far as Jesus goes, being a Jew, he would have believed as all Jews of that time did – That the fetus was not a person until it’s head had cleared the birth canal. I doubt that it would have bothered him an awful lot.
on June 5th, 2009 at 12:34 pm
Even if jesus did not think it was not a person untill its head cleared the canal, do you think he would be in favor of killing it before its head got through the canal?
on June 5th, 2009 at 2:45 pm
Truthmonger wrote: “Even if jesus did not think it was not a person untill its head cleared the canal, do you think he would be in favor of killing it before its head got through the canal?”
I assume that you are talking about the so-called late term abortions which are done if the fetus is malformed or dead or if the mother’s life is in danger. Check out “deformed babies” on YouTube and tell me what you think Jesus might say.
As far as terminating a pregnancy, Jesus would think just as all other Jews did or do think today. It’s not a person until its born.
on June 5th, 2009 at 6:54 pm
well i dont know about screwed up babies, but i cant really say im sure if he would be in favor of killing a 100% healthy late term babies because the mothers ‘psychological and metal health’ was at risk…..
on June 7th, 2009 at 7:51 am
Late term abortions are always performed for medical reasons. If you don’t believe in abortion then don’t have one.
on June 7th, 2009 at 9:02 am
The pastor of the church is INSANE. I have seen videos about what these people do. They have no respect for other people’s feelings and life. This group is insane.
As for the Doctor who lost his life (which is a shame) he was helping women whose lives were in danger due to the fetus either being dead or the mother was going to die if her pregnancey went any further.
on June 8th, 2009 at 10:50 am
Kathleen “If you don’t believe in abortion then don’t have one.”
Exactly right. It’s not up to me to tell another woman what to do with her pregnancy.
If there is punishment to be had on “the other side”, it will be meted out by the appropriate entity, and should not be at the hands of extremist believers who obviously have no confidence in their own God, feeling that they need to take care of things themselves.
on June 8th, 2009 at 4:18 pm
I’d like to know Scott Rodent’s favorite flavor of cheese. He’ll need a snack as he mans the tiller across the River Styx. Hmmmm…maybe he likes Limburger?
on June 11th, 2009 at 12:33 am
I love that fact that several of you are so arrogant that you presume to know what Jesus would think. Wow. Only man could possibly be this arrogant to put words in God’s mouth (or a prophet’s mouth) and then say that it was so.
on June 11th, 2009 at 9:54 am
MrsCaptJack wrote: “I love that fact that several of you are so arrogant that you presume to know what Jesus would think.”
Why not? – YOU DO, based on your edited, self contradicting bible. Why shouldn’t others, based on historical traditions of the very people that Jesus came from, give a view as well?
on June 11th, 2009 at 11:51 am
MrsCaptJack writes: “Only man could possibly be this arrogant to put words in God’s mouth (or a prophet’s mouth) and then say that it was so.”
Kind of like the bible, wouldn’t you say?????
on June 11th, 2009 at 3:23 pm
Absolutely like that. But then I don’t believe the bible is the direct word of God. It might have started that way but it sure didn’t end up that way after twenty or so translations. And let’s not forget all the gospels that are not included.
on June 11th, 2009 at 3:41 pm
Lora ~ Where in my post did I state that I believed in the bible? Next time you jump off a cliff of conclusions, make sure you have a parachute.
on June 11th, 2009 at 4:00 pm
MrsCaptJack wrote: “Where in my post did I state that I believed in the bible?….”
You’re right. I noticed that when I re-read your first post again. Sorry.
I first thought it was aimed at one of my previous comments that was a reply to someone who asked what Jesus might have thought of abortion and I replied that he likely would have reflected the Jewish view of that time, that a fetus wasn’t recognized as a person until its head had passed outside of the mother’s body.
on June 12th, 2009 at 2:55 am
I don’t know what Jesus would have thought as to when life begins but if that’ what the Jews at the time believe, perhaps that’s what He would have believed too. I’d like to hope He’d have a more definitive answer but that’s just me.
As to the idea of abortion, well, I guess I’ll have to have that conversation directly with my Maker because that’s the only other voice besides my own that I need to listen to on the issue. I sincerely doubt that God (however you address your Creator) would force a woman to have a child she did not want if she were placed in front of Him/Her, begging to have that child taken out of her. Every religion I’ve ever studied calls for a just and merciful God/Higher Power/Creator. Perhaps a fetus was placed only in a woman long enough for her to have it aborted so she would later talk to young girls about the importance of real birth control (not abortion as birth control) and counsel them against unprotected sex because of her own experience. Has that thought crossed no one’s mind?
People like Dr. Tiller do God’s work, whether anyone believes it or not. He gave women hope. That would be God’s work.
on June 12th, 2009 at 3:23 pm
MrsCaptJack:
Im not exactly sure that killing one human lifeform to benefit another one is exactly ‘Gods work’ but I could be wrong…..
on June 12th, 2009 at 3:57 pm
Even the Catholic church acknowledges that murdering Hitler would have been the “Christian” thing to do.
Again, I don’t presume to know what God thinks. I can only say that when someone gives another person Love, Hope, Compassion or Forgiveness ~ this would seem to be God’s work. Particularly if you believe in a just and merciful God.
And TruthMonger, as far as “killing on human lifeform to benefit another” that depends entirely on the vague question of WHEN something becomes human and WHEN something becomes an independent life form.
on June 12th, 2009 at 8:04 pm
“Im not exactly sure that killing one human lifeform to benefit another one ”
Go to YouTube and search “deformed babies” or just go to Google images and search the same. These are the kinds of babies that were terminated in late term. They’re hopeless deformed, dying or dead or a risk to the mother.
on June 13th, 2009 at 12:15 am
yeah thats why i tend to avoid any sort of abortion discussions as it is never-ending
one thing i do respect is when people atleast are straight up when they are pro-abortion. i see the whole ‘its not a human lifeform’ as just playing word games. child, adult, adolescent, fetus, elder, are all just words for different stages of human lifeforms.
wanting to kill people who are in a vegetative state, or aborting a fetus is a legit point of view, but trying to justify it by saying they are inhuman just really annoys me. if it has its own DNA and is not dead, then its a human to me.
on June 13th, 2009 at 10:37 am
TruthMonger: re:”if it has its own DNA and is not dead, then its a human to me.”
Fine, that’s what choice is all about. You would take it home and I would terminate it – after all, it’s below the age of accountability. Better to send it on to a better place, free of disease, than to keep it here to suffer pain and ridicule. We treat our animals better.
on June 13th, 2009 at 11:49 am
2) It should be noted that the “late term” abortions the Dr. Tiller performed occur in only 1% of all abortions, not for frivolous reasons but always due to medical conditions which include dead, dying, deformed babies or danger to the mother. It is only with human intervention that any of these survive. Now if man stepped back and stopped playing God himself, and just let nature runs its course, you would see exactly what God would do.
on June 13th, 2009 at 11:51 am
“it has its own DNA and is not dead, then its a human to me.”
A tumor has DNA too.
on June 13th, 2009 at 3:58 pm
Lora Singer:
i never said whether or not i would kill it or take it home, all i said was playing word games was a facade for some who cant handle telling it like it is.
a tumor does not have its own complete human DNA. again with the word-play…
on June 17th, 2009 at 1:26 pm
“a tumor does not have its own complete human DNA. again with the word-play…”
A tumor has the complete DNA of the body upon which it grows. Now consider a dermoid cyst which, consists of bone fragments, some teeth, pockets of sebum, blood, fat, bone, nails, eyes, cartilage, and thyroid tissue. It too has its own DNA. What about a person who is the result of a twin pregnancy wherein one twin, early in the pregnancy, has completely absorbed the other, and has two kinds of DNA within the one body. What do you call that – two souls? A woman in the US almost lost her child that way, because i’s DNA didn’t match hers, taken from her blood, however, other parts of her body carried the DNA that matched the child (it was later found). It’s a pretty complicated picture, isn’t it?
on June 17th, 2009 at 9:59 pm
A tumor, dermoid cyst or other such growth that didn’t start at as a twin does not have DNA independent of the host body. While it may have some distorted version of the host’s DNA, it wouldn’t exist without that host and therefore has no independent life. This discussion has to do with something that could actually live independently if allowed to grow. It’s not complicated at all.
on June 18th, 2009 at 8:28 am
“that didn’t start at as a twin does not have DNA independent of the host body. ”
The chimera most certainly did have DNA independent of the “host’s” body. It was a second twin that early in the gestation was absorbed by the other twin and results in one human who carries two lots of different DNA throughout its body.
“This discussion has to do with something that could actually live independently if allowed to grow.”
On the contrary, this site has to do with Dr. Tiller and late term abortions. His terminations were on dead, dying or deformed babies or those who posed a great risk of death for the mother. Search for “deformed babies” and their pictures and tell me how long any of them would live. “Viable” simply means alive, not that they would survive even more than minutes once delivered. Even an anencephalic can be “viable” for hours.
on June 18th, 2009 at 12:11 pm
Lora ~ A chimera is still a TWIN. Don’t you get it? A tumor isn’t going to survive hooked up to life support. You were trying to make a point that a tumor had DNA. It’s still never going to survive on it’s own. Anything that started out as a fetus, would, barring a problem eventually be born and hopefully survive. Tumors are not born. They are not expelled from the host with their own lives to live. That’s where the discussion has turned ~ you were the one to lead it there.
Contrary to your statement, this discussion started because people tried to crash Dr. Tiller’s services and spew their hatred there. Then, the discussion turned to late term abortions in general (with side notes about President Obama’s speech). Then you brought up tumors, while trying to prove a point that is all to clearly just word play. All one has to do is READ this thread to know what the discussion is about NOW. For pete’s sake, don’t you ever read anything before you type a response or do you just read the first sentence of something and jump off that cliff without a parachute??
And personally, I don’t give a damn about looking at deformed babies on youtube. Abortion, late term or otherwise is (or should be) a woman’s right. I don’t have a problem with late term abortions. I have a problem with anyone who uses abortion as birth control when you can get contraception free from any clinic.