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Holocaust Museum Shooter Tied to More Racist Leaders

By Mark Potok on June 17, 2009 - 6:58 am, Posted in Anti-Semitic

Over at Adam Holland’s blog, a fascinating post offers some new details of the links between James von Brunn — the accused murderer of a guard at the Holocaust Museum — and major figures on the radical right. They include people like Willis Carto, founder of the anti-Semitic Liberty Lobby and a slew of other organizations; David Duke, the one-time Klan leader and current neo-Nazi ideologue; and, perhaps most fascinatingly, the late Marine Corps Gen. Pedro A. Del Valle, an infamous anti-Semite. Holland’s unearthing of some of von Brunn’s correspondence is only the latest evidence (see here and here, for instance) of von Brunn’s longstanding role in the organized radical right.

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  • Ruslan Amirkhanov

    Actually Paul, it is quite clear and obvious that virtually everyone in this thread is at least more educated than you regarding politics and history.

    And it is a really bad idea to try to pillory Communism with body counts, because the fact is that capitalism’s body counts are immeasurably higher, and still proceeded apace. They had at least a 200 year head start on us so we could never catch up even if we wanted to. Most of the “Communist” death count tolls consist of specious reasoning- attributing deaths due to famine as people deliberately killed by the system. Often times, population projections are used in a dishonest way, so that people never born are couned as killed.

    Millions die of starvation worldwide, under capitalist regimes, often due to economic policies, foreign debt, privatization, etc., yet when that happens under capitalism, it’s just “unfortunate”. If it happens under any regime labeled socialist, the deaths are laid at the feet of Communism. It is a tactic used primarily by dishonest people.

    I am sorry Paul, but your theories and ideas here are comical, and declaring otherwise is not going to change anything. America’s ability to salvage some decent standard of living relies on the majority of the people discarding your infantile worldview.

  • http://cultbustersgalactica.yuku.com/directory Paul

    BULL. You are not of superior intelligence to me. You are freaking COMMUNISTS! The most despicable lowlifes of all in the political gene pool. You have nothing to offer the world but lies. Your favorite ecomomic / political system has been proven over and over to be a total failure and has manifested itself as the most dealiest, mass murdering regimes in human history. A communist calling me a dumb ass makes me feel like a genius. Stick it commie!

    von Brunn and you have much in common. Hatred for humanity!

  • Ruslan Amirkhanov

    Paul, we have indulged you enough. In the future I encourage you to get a political education from something a bit more advanced than Schoolhouse Rocky cartoons.

  • http://cultbustersgalactica.yuku.com/directory Paul

    Nope, none of the above. You are very close minded who just throws labels at anyone who disagrees with you. I am an American who sees the good in the free enterprise system and cherish the freedoms we have. If right winger is a dirty word to you, you are describing the founders of this nation who created the Republic giving you the freedom to shoot of your mouth like you do and enjoy the lifestyle that you do.

    Few in communist countries have computers or allowed to express their opinions on them under threat of imprisonment and / or death.

    One thing I am very glad I am not and that is a COMMUNIST who would deny the multi millions of deaths under communists regimes of Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Ho Chi Minh, Castro, Ceausescu, Kim Il Sung……

    Spew against Nazis and Hitler all you want but no one in history has killed more ruthlessly than the mass murderers of communism.

    I am not any of the labels you accuse me of. Just an American who believes in the constitution granting all equally under the law life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

    And that is exactly what you commie bastards would deny me under the point of your gun barrels.

    Nazis and Communists pose the same threat to all Americans.

  • Samdamnit

    Paul is obviously a right winger trying to obscure the facts. He is of the same ilk as neo confederates and Holocaust deniers.

  • Ruslan Amirkhanov

    Damn, it almost seems like you are going to break down crying. Don’t blame me for the fact that you got your political education from an AM radio dial.

    “You are a communist, I am a capitalist.”

    No, you are a person who believes in capitalism. A capitalist is someone who derives most if not all of their income from the ownership of private property.

    “You believe in the enslavement of the human soul.”

    Communists don’t believe in souls, remember?

    “I believe in the freedom of the human soul.”

    That’s really lovely but utterly meaningless. You might as well have written: I believe in the coffee of the spagetti.

    “You are no better than the Nazis who stand right next to you. Right of you, but left of me.”

    In your personal fantasy land, where you get to redefine the political spectrum at will, perhaps. In the real world- WE are the guys who destroyed the Nazis, remember? 70-80 percent of the German military was destroyed on the Eastern Front. Then there were the Communist partisans throughout Europe including the west. Not to mention Spain.

    “Both of you, von Brunn and you are the same threat to all Americans and the freedoms we cherish.”

    People with poor reasoning skills, political understanding, and historical knowledge are the biggest threat to America, in other words people like you. What you are afraid to admit, is that a man like von Brunn could sit down next to you at a bar, start complaining about the “gummint”, and you would probably become great friends.

    “You hate the rich and middle class, von Brunn hates the Jews.”

    Obviously I am not a fan of the ruling class, which is not the middle class, but at the same time there is no point hating them since the conflict between us is objective and largely out of the hands of any person or group of people.

    The dominance of the ruling class in society can be readily observed and proven. Von Brunn’s Jewish conspiracy cannot be proven.

    “All of your arguments against any radical is negated by your own Anti American radicalism.

    Enough said.”

    You lack the most elementary reasoning skills and political knowledge. None of my arguments are “negated” by your bizarre strawman and ad hominem attacks. And as a side note, I am seriously wondering why you brought up Obama and falsely claimed that I accused those who didn’t vote for him(which would include myself) of being racist. Is that a Freudian slip?

  • GENO the Valkyrie Warkord

    “You are a communist.”

    May I ask what makes me a communist? What on Earth is a communist to you? Or let me say it this way–
    If someone is dedicated to fighting racism, neo-Nazism and white power, so according to you, that person is automatically a communist???
    LOLOLOLOL!!!!
    OMG, that is really retarded. Now you’re really making me laugh!
    You’re like a neo-Con idiot who thinks everyone is either a communist, socialists or liberals if they opposed to the war-mongering destructive emperialists of the far Right.

    “I am a capitalist.”

    Seriously, I could careless of what you are but–
    Thanks for putting words in my mouth, this is what capitalists do–

    “believe in the enslavement of the human soul.”

    In other words, capitalists live off the slave labor and slave wages of the lower and middle-class. In fact, capitalists are law breakers who knowingly hire illegal aliens over Americans. There is nothing more un-American than having capitalists hire illegal foreigners to suppress wages for the American working class. While they tend to get rich off of them. You are right about one thing–i “hate the rich”. But I don’t hate the middle class because I am a member of the American working class! The working class has nothing in common with the rich in terms of class. You’re assumptions are getting laughable. I’m starting to wonder about the same thing Ruslan said, you’re either still in High School or a H.S. drop out with an education level of 9 or lower. You clearly possessed no understanding of mainstream politics and economics!

    Also what is so “Anti-American” about fighting racism and neo-Nazism in the U.S.??? You can’t explain this, because you know very well that there is nothing “Anti-American” about it. You stated several times how you are against racism and dedicated to fighting racism. And now you go on to say its “Anti-American”, its frivolous. You clearly haven’t a clue as to what you’re talking about here. So it is you who lost this argument. You also failed to post any links/source to connect James von Brunn to the Left-wing agenda. And you haven’t done so. Seeing you’re petty weak arguments here is a waste of time. So I digress.

  • http://cultbustersgalactica.yuku.com/directory Paul

    You are a communist, I am a capitalist.

    You believe in the enslavement of the human soul.

    I believe in the freedom of the human soul.

    You are no better than the Nazis who stand right next to you. Right of you, but left of me.

    Both of you, von Brunn and you are the same threat to all Americans and the freedoms we cherish.

    You hate the rich and middle class, von Brunn hates the Jews.

    Very little difference. Both of your psyches are hatred based.

    All of your arguments against any radical is negated by your own Anti American radicalism.

    Enough said.

  • Ruslan Amirkhanov

    “ol.. You guys are a bunch of laughs. More fun that a barrel of monkeys. Obviously graduates of Bill Ayers School of Leftist Mythology.”

    We’re not the ones who would get laughed out of Political Science 101.

    ” According to you:”

    What follows are a series of statements I have never made, not even close. You can’t even properly comprehend people’s arguments- I guess that is what “free thinking is all about.”

    “Republicans are Nazis”,

    Never said it. Go review my posts.

    “anyone who didn’t vote for Obama is a Nazi racist”,

    I have yet to mention Obama. I did not vote for Obama- on purpose.

    “communism is good”

    That is a bit oversimplistic, particularly since no modern Communist society has ever existed.

    “capitalism is bad”.

    This is the one thing you get right.

    If you represent SPLC then SPLC is a sham and is just a front for leftist propaganda. I will no longer post any links to it on my website to help fight racism. If this is SPLC’s official political views then they need to be exposed and contributions to it should dry up.

    “I thought that SPLC was an open minded organization that wasn’t tied to any one political slant but when I questioned it’s misuse of the term “radical right” to label racist Nazis, I figured maybe they could be shown the fallacy in that.”

    I am not affiliated with the SPLC in any way. Nazis are located to the far right on the political spectrum- which is generally accepted across the boards by most academics and historians. You obviously have no idea what left or right even means.

    Paul, you are the one who has lost, because you can’t form a coherent argument, and when you are shocked that the rest of us in realityland don’t accept your personal libertarian utopian redefinitions of capitalism or the political spectrum, you accuse us of being part of some big conspiracy. I think you need to pick up a copy of capital and find out how the system actually works. From the perspective of a capitalist, words like “freedom” have little meaning . If a military dictatorship, such as that of Chile, or for that matter a Nazi dictatorship should prove necessary to secure and advance the cause of the capitalist class- they will support it, which is precisely what they did in Nazi Germany. Many of them supported it to the end, and some even after the war. Henry Ford was probably one of the Nazis’ most popular foreign supporters. If, on the other hand, a country is stable, and secure, then the ruling class are content to let the people have a fair bit of negative freedom(this means lack of restrictions). The US has had such a condition since the end of WWII, and especially since the end of the Cold War. However, 9-11 showed how even one terrorist attack could lead to a major, sudden rollback of basic civil rights. Imagine what the ruling class will allow as the country sinks deeper into debt and economic turmoil.

    You need to get out of 5th grade civics class and into the real world. Capitalism is not about freedom, competition, free enterprise, creating jobs, or any of that libertarian fairy tale nonsense. It is about making profit. It is about living a life of luxury without working, via the exploitation of private property.

  • http://cultbustersgalactica.yuku.com/directory Paul

    Nope in your zealotry fighting freedom and capitalism you are now smearing anyone who disagrees with wackos like you and Bill Ayers.

    Here is my website, we do not discuss politics there but we do attack and expose racism.

    http://cultbustersgalactica.yuku.com/

    Go there and see if you find any pro white supremacy, racist or radical Nazi views. Ain’t there because I am none of the above dude!

    You don’t know beans about me or politics or what economic system works best or the horrors and impracticality of communism.

    In your Commie zeal your constant attempts to slander Republican conservatives as Nazi racists show how deluded and downright deceptive you are.

    von Brunn hates America and so do you.

    You two only differ in that von Brunn is a fascist who admires Hitler and you are a communist who admires Stalin. Both of you are dangerous to America.

    My true colors is that I am an American who supports free enterprise and is against racism, fascism, communism, socialism and internet trolls such as yourself.

    By the way DUDE, in this debate…. YOU LOSE!

  • GENO the Valkrie Warlord

    Yep. I knew it all along that Paulie is an in closet white supremacist playing his usual mind-games. It didn’t work.

    “Anyone who didn’t vote for Obama is a Nazi racist.”

    I didn’t vote for him. Does that mean I’m a “Nazi racist” too??? This statement is very typical of wing-nut asasines.
    Also, the petty term of “Nazi” all by itself truly has loss its original significant meaning. Anybody can be called a “Nazi” if you don’t share the same political beliefs as they. I have been called a “Nazi” by both the Left and Right. Its actually quite meaningless to begin with. If you’re gonna talk about white supremacist like yourself. At least add the “neo-” into Nazi and we all know who you are talking about. The reason why I knew you to be a wing ding extremists is because of how you kept reiterating and accusing me of being a “Leftist propagandist”. And how you think “Liberals are worst than neo-Nazis/white power”. This concept alone makes you an obvious wing-nut zombie like the rest of them oopressors and Emperialists.

    “If you represent SPLC, the SPLC is a sham.”

    I don’t represent SPLC. I represent myself as a “Free-thinking” individual. Realistically, if I represented SPLC, I would not have been posting comments on here to begin with. I’d be busy taking down the WN organizations and bringing them into the court of law to face Justice.
    As far as you “fighting racism”, you haven’t done hoot. You simply linked James von Brunn the wretched white supremacist who is known in the Right wing political platform and you linked him to the “Left”. This became the focal point of your twisting follies. If you stand by your lame assertions that he is a “Leftist”, well why don’t you tell that to the FBI? They are also the ones who have linked him to Right-wing extremism.

    Nice to see that you have shown your true colors at last. We finally been able to expose you for the fake anti-racist that you are.

  • http://cultbustersgalactica.yuku.com/directory Paul

    lol.. You guys are a bunch of laughs. More fun that a barrel of monkeys. Obviously graduates of Bill Ayers School of Leftist Mythology. According to you:

    “Republicans are Nazis”,

    “anyone who didn’t vote for Obama is a Nazi racist”,

    “communism is good”

    “capitalism is bad”.

    If you represent SPLC then SPLC is a sham and is just a front for leftist propaganda. I will no longer post any links to it on my website to help fight racism. If this is SPLC’s official political views then they need to be exposed and contributions to it should dry up.

    I thought that SPLC was an open minded organization that wasn’t tied to any one political slant but when I questioned it’s misuse of the term “radical right” to label racist Nazis, I figured maybe they could be shown the fallacy in that.

    Evidently not. SPLC seems to be run by leftist ideologues who use the issues of racism and antisemitism to twist and distort to further their leftist political agenda. That being the case, what a shame.

    The result? Zero effectiveness combating racism. Shame on YOU!

  • Ruslan Amirkhanov

    So you want to go this route Paul? Very well.

    “Nope, your fallacious leaps at illogic do nothing to further your arguments. You only cling to erroneous perspectives of politics to further your leftist agenda. ”

    That’s really clever Paul. I point out your logical fallacy, so you borrow the same term and insist that I did it, effectively saying, “NO U!” Sadly, there isn’t anything of substance in this argument. And your logical fallacies, which I have pointed out in detail, still remain.

    “You seem to only dabble with the cause of racism and antisemitism to a point because it is an opportunity to smear political American conservatives with a bogus association with Neo Nazi racists who are actually on polar opposites in beliefs in politics and spirituality.”

    I have personal years of personal experience with mainstream conservatives AND neo-Nazis, so I know all about their ideological links. Didn’t expect that did you?

    “SIMPLE QUESTION FOR YOU TO ANSWER:

    HOW CAN TWO SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT TOTALITARISTIC SYSTEMS, COMMUNISM AND FASCISM BE POLITICALLY POLAR OPPOSITES?”

    Quite simple actually. First off, the adjective you were looking for was “totalitarian”, but I guess “free-thinkers” get to make up words too. Anyway, the word totalitarianism was actually created by a Marxist, and it is a highly inadequate term. For one thing, totalitarianism only applies to state intervention in life, and doesn’t account for the ability of private individuals and corporations to dominate social life, which is precisely what they do.

    Of course understanding that Communism and National Socialism are polar opposites can be recognized simply by the bitterness of the struggle waged between the too. But by all means, find some modern-day skinheads and inform them that they are the same as Communists.

    “Your interlacing of confusing subterfuge hogwash and personal put downs of me do not do anything for you in matters of persuasion.”

    What is “confusing” for you? We are trying to teach you elementary politics here.

    “Name a source that defines the political spectrum as defined as:

    Left to Right…

    Communism ~ Socialism ~ Fascism ~ Republic ~ Anarchy”

    You name it, you made the claim. The burden of proof is on the claimant.

    “Now name a source that defines the political spectrum defined as:

    Communism ~ Socialism ~ Republic ~ Fascism

    The political spectrum immediately above doesn’t even look right on paper. Totally illogical.”

    I am arguing in favor of the academically accepted view and definition of the political spectrum. It is not my burden to prove it- that has already been done.

    “I know World War 2 history very well and sure, Hitler came to power sucking up to the German industrialists such as Krupp but as soon as he took over as complete dictator and had the support of “the working class”, members of his brown shirts later SS, the Captains of Industry were a vital part of the plots to overthrow Hitler and return to the German Republic. Capitalists do not thrive under a totalitarian dictatorship so they do what they can to depose them.”

    It’s really too bad you began that paragraph with “I know World War 2 history very well”, because immediately after you proceed to disprove that claim in full. The German industrialists, thanks to the Nazi government, no longer had to worry about unions or strikes. Because of Nazi policies and the war itself, they were making money hand over fist off of slave labor. You weren’t aware of this?

    “Fascism and Capitalism are incongruous. Only free enterprise within a freely elected Republic with a safety net can capitalism and capitalism thrive. It is the best political and economic system the world has ever produced.”

    Perhaps in libertarian fantasy land…but in the real world it’s quite a different story. For one thing, the “best political and economic system the world has ever produced” is once again in the throes of a massive crisis, as is inherent in capitalism. Second, you clearly have little understanding of the state and private sector. It is incredibly naive, even infantile, for a grown man to believe that the state and private sector are somehow separate from eachother. Until you understand that the state is essentially the tool of the ruling class, which can be proven any given day by opening the newspaper, you will never understand politics.

    “This statement you made here…
    Where did this take place?

    Are you speaking about Russia? China? North Korea? Cuba? Vietnam?”

    Russia, Cuba, and to some extent Vietnam, yes. China and North Korea, no.

    “You say “socialism”, but those regimes which came to power by the bullet, not the ballot, by force, with no human rights and where the poor become poorer are COMMUNIST!”

    For one thing, many of those regimes were in countries ruled by either a military dictatorship or colonial masters, so they didn’t really have a choice. The US government came to power by the bullet, in case you forgot. The NSDAP was elected via democratic means. Your statement here is really ridiculous and not related to the topic at hand. But I will point out that your claim that the “poor get poorer” under Communism is easily demonstrably false if you compare key stats like literacy, infant morality, and lifespan in formerly socialist nations to what they had prior to and after their respective revolutions.

    “Only ones to benefit from Communist forced repression is Communists party members / murderers. They steal from the rich and give themselves. ”

    Again, demonstrably false.

    “All Animals are equal except pigs. Pigs are more equal.”

    Way to demonstrate that your knowledge of Communism is largely based on a novel by George Orwell, a hypocritical and naive individual who never set foot in the Soviet Union. Forgive me if I prefer to rely on more scholarly sources, including archival material.

    “I despise racism, antisemitism and instigators of class warfare. Radical leftists pitting one economic group against another is not any better than racism or antisemitism. All is deplorable.”

    Race and ethnicity are not the same as class. And I’m sorry to say, but the division between proletariat and bourgeoisie is an objective fact- Communists are merely pointing this out. The rising unemployment in the US and world now bears testimony to this. The working people need jobs, but profit margins are falling, so your friendly capitalist tosses people out on the streets.

    “How is class warfare different than racist warfare?”

    Races are not inherently competitive. There is no natural inherent conflict between say, whites, and blacks. What conflict exists is largely the making of those who wish to see a working class divided.

    “How would you consider yourself politically?”

    Marxist-Leninist. But I was brought up conservative and somewhat libertarian so I’m familiar with all these arguments. I guess you could say I grew up.

    “I am proud to say I support free enterprise devoid of greed. Just good, safe, fair, moderately regulated business practices.”

    That’s nice that you do, but sadly capitalists don’t.

    “I see that your political agenda is all that blocking you from seeing that von Brunn is not of a so called “radical right” but actually closer to your political beliefs on the left.”

    Von Brunn is most certainly far right. I’m sorry but you don’t get to redefine the political spectrum for your ideology. Plus we haven’t even got into his soical values. That is the key.

    “The right of the political spectrum is freedom. Nazis. Socialists and Communists hate freedom.”

    Ok now we’re getting into kindergarten here. Please tell me you’re a high school student. Please tell me that in 2009, no grown man would write a sentence like that.

    “Nazis. Socialists and Communists… ain’t a dime’s difference between them. All are control freaks!”

    Political science grade: F -

  • GENO the Valkrie Warlord

    So according to you, if you support SPLC’s mission and you’re against neo-Nazism and white supremacy. Then you should direct your vitriolic criticisms at the neo-Con or the far right Republicans. After all, they are ones who are vying for segregation, erase Affirmative Action , equal opportunities, incite anti-Semitism, denounce Civil and Human Rights and enslave white women back into the role of lonely housewives, low pay wages for them et cetera. Republicans and the fringed Right are blantant divisive, purely hypocritical and their demagogues somewhat quasi-racist. If you are “for the equality of all races and ethnicities” according to your rants from above. Then you would oppose the Right-wing political spectrum! If you are against the neo-Nazis like I am, then you would be very critical of WN related policies. If you are implying that no race is superior, then you would very know what political group[s] to detest!
    “Liberals” and Demacrats generally do not associate with pro-white interests policies such as segregation, white nationalism, favorism among others. This is why I don’t voice much opposition to them as I am towards the Right. But if you’re gonna go on to talk about the oppresive government per sé, that alone doesn’t help much in the cause for racial equality. That would make you more of an anti-governmental loon. You have to target the heart of the white supremacy movement to fight racism. Besides, you should know that neo-Nazis hate everyone who isn’t exactly a white protestant and pretty much every ethnic group including Jews have been the target of violence by neo-Nazis/white supremacists. If your concentrating on the government, at least address your anger at the Republican Party of the far Right!

    Its that simple. Now lets see what other concepts you’re gonna invent next? Because the way I see it, your political views on the mainstream political spectrum isn’t widely shared. Don’t be the next von Brunn!

  • http://cultbustersgalactica.yuku.com/directory Paul

    Nope, your fallacious leaps at illogic do nothing to further your arguments. You only cling to erroneous perspectives of politics to further your leftist agenda. You seem to only dabble with the cause of racism and antisemitism to a point because it is an opportunity to smear political American conservatives with a bogus association with Neo Nazi racists who are actually on polar opposites in beliefs in politics and spirituality.

    SIMPLE QUESTION FOR YOU TO ANSWER:

    HOW CAN TWO SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT TOTALITARISTIC SYSTEMS, COMMUNISM AND FASCISM BE POLITICALLY POLAR OPPOSITES?

    The answer is of course is they are not. It is IMPOSSIBLE!

    Your interlacing of confusing subterfuge hogwash and personal put downs of me do not do anything for you in matters of persuasion.

    Name a source that defines the political spectrum as defined as:

    Left to Right…

    Communism ~ Socialism ~ Fascism ~ Republic ~ Anarchy

    Now name a source that defines the political spectrum defined as:

    Communism ~ Socialism ~ Republic ~ Fascism

    The political spectrum immediately above doesn’t even look right on paper. Totally illogical.

    I know World War 2 history very well and sure, Hitler came to power sucking up to the German industrialists such as Krupp but as soon as he took over as complete dictator and had the support of “the working class”, members of his brown shirts later SS, the Captains of Industry were a vital part of the plots to overthrow Hitler and return to the German Republic. Capitalists do not thrive under a totalitarian dictatorship so they do what they can to depose them.

    Fascism and Capitalism are incongruous. Only free enterprise within a freely elected Republic with a safety net can capitalism and capitalism thrive. It is the best political and economic system the world has ever produced.

    This statement you made here…

    “Socialists expropriated their bourgeosie, and to an extent the middle classes, and generally used government authority in favor of the majority, the working class.”

    Where did this take place?

    Are you speaking about Russia? China? North Korea? Cuba? Vietnam?

    You say “socialism”, but those regimes which came to power by the bullet, not the ballot, by force, with no human rights and where the poor become poorer are COMMUNIST!

    Only ones to benefit from Communist forced repression is Communists party members / murderers. They steal from the rich and give themselves. ”

    All Animals are equal except pigs. Pigs are more equal.”

    Under Communism the Communists just replace and become the new bourgeoisie. Not by entrepreneurial endeavors but just at gunpoint.

    Even the socialist George Orwell was wise enough to see the greed of communists. Makes capitalism much more preferable.

    I despise racism, antisemitism and instigators of class warfare. Radical leftists pitting one economic group against another is not any better than racism or antisemitism. All is deplorable.

    How is class warfare different than racist warfare?

    How would you consider yourself politically?

    I am proud to say I support free enterprise devoid of greed. Just good, safe, fair, moderately regulated business practices.

    I see that your political agenda is all that blocking you from seeing that von Brunn is not of a so called “radical right” but actually closer to your political beliefs on the left.

    The right of the political spectrum is freedom. Nazis. Socialists and Communists hate freedom.

    Nazis. Socialists and Communists… ain’t a dime’s difference between them. All are control freaks!

  • Ruslan Amirkhanov

    Paul, you may not be a Nazi and oppose racism, but it still doesn’t change the fact that you clearly know little about politics and history. That’s nice how you consider yourself a “free thinker”. You know, I consider myself somewhat of a free-thinker and quite frankly, I’m starting to think all those eggheads with their “laws of physics” are just full of BS. I think I’m going to disprove their dogmatic, leftist ideas about gravity by jumping off a building and landing unharmed, on my feet. But before that, I am going to write a book about how WWII was won when the powerful army of Mexico finally managed to defeat the lethal Australian war machine. Oh sure, those liberal lefty historians will all say this version of WWII is “insane”, but they are just dogmatic, brainwashed fools. I’m a FREE THINKER!!!

    I hope the analogy is sinking in now. What people like you fail to realize is that the world does not revolve around you. Individuals cannot just redefine the entire political spectrum on a whim. Moreover, it is ridiculous to pretend that you came up with that clap-trap all on your own, as a “free-thinker”. If that were the case, why is the message you are peddling here almost identical to that espoused by thousands of others, not to mention a great deal of consevative pundits? I’m sure it’s just a coincidence right? The truth is, that nobody just spontaneously comes up with political beliefs of their own- we are all influenced by what we see in the world.

    Now as for the specifics of your arguments- as usual you are comparing details rather than looking at the big picture. Yes, Nazis created a powerful state- but for whom? Primarily the wealthy capitalist and army aristocracy. Their support and ideology greatly appealed to the middle class, but Nazi policies mostly benefitted the rich. Socialists expropriated their bourgeosie, and to an extent the middle classes, and generally used government authority in favor of the majority, the working class.

    Your entire argument is just one big logical fallacy- A table has four legs, a cow has four legs, ergo tables are cows.

  • http://cultbustersgalactica.yuku.com/directory Paul

    I oppose Nazism and white supremacy and all other forms of racial supremacy. And I am politically to the right of the Nazi racists because I politically prefer the representative Republic that America has. A Republic where people of all races, colors, creeds and political beliefs are equal under the law. What von Brunn hates.

    No one taught me my understanding of politics. I am a free thinker who thinks outside of the orthodox political dogma.One with a logical reasoning mind can see that politics is ALL about government, too much or lack of.

    All “issues” you refer to have to do with “what is the government” going to do about it. As in all political camps there are varying degrees of beliefs as to what governments’ role should be.

    Libertarians are right of center of modern American conservatives and more in line with the founding fathers. To the extreme radical right of Libertarians are the anarchists wishing no government at all.

    Fascism is to the left of those who prefer representative republics like most of the non communist world have in varying degrees. Fascism is what they have in Burma, for one instance, right now. Non socialist, non communist but still the government has a death grip on the populace.

    Fascism, Nazism is to the LEFT of the freedom we enjoy in America. Right of communism and socialism because it allows possession of personal property and businesses but that is all. Fascism and Nazism is a very heavily regulated bureaucratic government, less than socialism and communism but not by much.

    So to claim that a racist Nazi like von Brunn is of the radical right is totally false for von Brunn advocates what Hitler established, Fascism which is to the left of democracy or what we actually have, a representative reublic.

    Got It?

  • GENO the Valkrie Warlord

    “Can’t you let go of your leftist agenda long enough to see the forests for the trees?”

    You are not a “Leftist” simply because you oppose neo-Nazism and the white supremacy movement. There is nothing “Leftist” or “Communists” about it. Talk about the one who is “brainwashed”. Ask yourself what is so “Leftist” about my comments from above???

    Also,, Anarchism is not a political movement because it has no legislative agendas,, no political candidates or advocates in Congress or the media, nor from the political interests organizations. Its simply a political belief but its not a political movement. So I don’t see the point of placing Anarchism in the political spectrum when nobody would occupy that portion of proposed spectrum.

    It doesn’t make much sense to pretend that neo-Nazis, Fascist and Communist belong to the same side of the political spectrum when you investigate their behaviors and policy preferences. You’re also excluding all the other political agendas associated with each political groups. You seemed to be focused so much on the governmental aspects of each groups rather than their issues, agendas and policies that defines their political spectrum.

    So whoever is that political science professor clearly is teaching you nonsense. I say it is you who could be brainwashed.

  • http://cultbustersgalactica.yuku.com/directory Paul

    Uh yeah…. Fascism is to the right of communism but to the left of democracy. So your terminology is all out of whack and totally illogical. Did you not ever question your college political science professor like I did. He believed what he was always taught too but he was wrong and agreed that my view was more logical.

    Radical Right is not Fascists. Radical Right is Anarchists.

    Political Science is based on the degree of government control desired.

    Communism, Socialism and Fascism are all left of Democracy and Republics. So anyone who refers to Fascism as being of the radical right is either a communist, socialist or has doesn’t know logical political science from a hole in the ground.

    Sorry to burst your bubble but like von Brunn you have been brainwashed. Von Brunn, like Hitler is a racist murderer who hates people of all different races, ethnic groups and Republican Conservatives who does not see the world in the warped way von Brunn does.

    My understanding of politics does not come from Fox News. Why would you assert that? Can’t you discuss racism without inserting your leftist political bias against me into it?

    All this radical right nonsense just defeats any real possible effect anyone can have against racism. But go ahead. It is obvious that your political agenda is more important to you that the noble fight against racism and antisemitism.

    Claiming Nazis are of the political right is just plain. nonsense.

    Here it is again. Left to Right.

    Communism ~ Socialism ~ Fascism ~ Republic ~ Anarchy

  • Ruslan Amirkhanov

    Paul, I’m sorry to disappoint you, but your Fox News/Talk Radio school of politics has failed you, miserably. All scholars of Fascism and National Socialism, everyone with personal experience of such groups, correctly locates them on the political right. If you cannot comprehend that than these political spectrum terms lose all meaning.

    It is not some kind of “liberal” “leftist” conspiracy that led to this majority opinion amongst scholars and historians- it is based in fact. I hate to tell you this, but reality tends to have a “liberal” bias.

  • http://cultbustersgalactica.yuku.com/directory Paul

    You are not understanding what I am saying at all. I do know what I am talking about. Again. Here is politics 101. Watch this left to right…..

    More government on the left from totalitarianism to less government on the right to anarchy.

    Communism ~ Socialism ~ Fascism ~ Republic ~ Anarchy

    Why would this be so confusing to you?

    Fascism is to the right of Communism but is the the left of a Republic. Anarchy is to the extreme right of a Republic. Not the Nazis of fascism. Politics is all the degrees of government control wanted in our lives.

    Nazism, fascism is about more government control than what we have in a Republic, therefore it is to the left of the form of government the U.S. has. Fascism is very akin to Socialism and Communism.

    Is it possible that YOUR understanding of politics is wrong and not mine?????

    Nazi racists are not of the radical right. To a communist yes but not to an American who favors our freedom in a Republic. Fascism and fascist Nazi racists like von Brunn are to the LEFT of myself.

  • Reader

    Conservatives have to live with the fact that they spawn monsters like McVeigh and Von Brunn. They’re their Frankensteins, like it or not.

  • Ryan the non-Aryan

    Paul’s argument that neo-Nazis are somewhat Anarchist doesn’t seem to fit well.
    I don’t think he actually knows what he is talking about.
    I don’t see how neo-Nazis can be placed in the same boat with Anarchist when you have neo-Nazis killing Anarchists from abroad:

    http://www.anarkismo.net./article/1839

  • Paul

    Wrong! You are twisting everything I wrote and call ME a white supremacist???? Ridiculous! Can’t you let go of your leftist agenda long enough to see the forest for the trees?

    I am not a racist, or a white supremacist. Quote the opposite. No race or ethnic group is superior over another. Stop your leftist dribble and realize that Neo Nazis are closer to communists in the way they want to use government to suppress people’s freedom and are left of center, NOT right of center of all who cherish democracy and freedom of all. Neo Nazis are not leftist such as communists but they are left of center in that they are for a totalitarian government and against the principles of a free Republic representing all races equally. In that they are similar to communists though they hate each other as much as communists and true socialists do. Infighting among totalitarians does not make them polar opposites.

    Peal the scales from your eyes, think out of the narrow, shallow box you’ve put yourself in and realize that leftists of all sorts, Communists, Socialists and Nazi racists are a threat to all freedom loving peoples.

  • obvious pseudonym

    Nazis themselves consider their ideology to be right-wing. In Europe the terms they use more frequently now are “traditionalist” or “nationalist.”

    As for anarchists, you don’t seem to actually know what they believe. Anarchism is belief in self-government and in social organisation and action through voluntary organisations, such as unions and cooperatives, not “no government” or government through violence. It’s a political stance generally considered to be to the left of socialism.

    I’m guessing you’ve never taken a political science class. Or had a discussion with an actual anarchist (17-year-old self-proclaimed anarchists on the internet don’t exactly count). You might try a basic book on anarchism to clear things up for you, or a survey volume on political science. You can find the entry on anarchism from one of these via GoogleBooks at http://books.google.co.uk/book.....8;resnum=6

  • Dani

    In war, there is no right. There is just wrong.

  • Carter

    Anarchistic thinking was basically an Italian-European phenomenon based in the political upheavals in Italy during the 19th century & was imported to the USA during the period after the Civil War. Politically the closest thing to Anarchism is Libertarian radical thinking.
    Conservatism has specific elements that define it as does Leftist ideology. Radical Libertarian thinking is that the least government is the most effective & what is to be strive for is CLOSE to Anarchism is it’s bureaucratic dynamic. Basically NO bureaucracy….None (or very little) of the elements of infrastructure.

  • Ruslan Amirkhanov

    No Paul, Nazis are right wing. This is not something that is debatable. There are always occasions when one might find some common features between Nazis and pretty much any other political movement, e.g., Hitler being a vegetarian. That does not mean however, that they are left wing or anything but extreme rightists.

    90% of the beliefs espoused by modern Neo-Nazis sync up with what is routinely espoused by mainstream conservative pundits, in fact it has been this way for decades. Most if not nearly all American neo-Nazis have had a background in mainstream conservatism.

  • carrisima

    Unfortunately, there will always be warped racists and antisemites promoting their unsavory agendas in the interest of hate. Fortunately, we have publications like SPLC and Hatewatch to monitor and inform us these travesties against humanity. The good news is that as technology brings us closer — the weeding out of these horrifying characters of hatred will be diminished — but never wiped out. carrisima

  • GENO the Valkyrie Warlord

    Nice try, numbskull.

    Furthermore, how you described your perplexing political trivials doesn’t seem to be working. It doesn’t apply in the greater concept that a neo-Nazi is a “Leftist” soley because they’re for a “no government” state. Certainly James von Brunn was no “Leftist”. The link I posted on von Brunn was a research conducted by an *independent* source. Not a left or right media hound. It contradicts everything you’re stating about von Brunn smearing him as a “leftist” loon. Of course, judging by your lack of knowledge into von Brunn, you didn’t bother to read my link(also the FBI has a file on von Brunn saying he had connections on the Right).

    Here are some of my theories on why I believe you white supremacists are trying very hard, in a poor attempt at smearing von Brunn as a leftist hacknut:

    1.) An increased of violent acts by the radicalized right through lone wolf psychopaths who are generally and most commonly associated with the right, all comes down to their movement’s image. They are so concerned with their agenda, that they are trying their best to distant themselves from the lone wolves who shared the same political beliefs/idealogy from the right. So what are they doing??? They go on to say that these fools are “Leftist”, a classic libel attempt. It doesn’t seem to be working.
    2.) And because of all the violence the wing-nuts are inciting. The mainstream movement itself will try a new tactic by saying its the Leftist who are responsible for it. They will backstab the lone wolf gunman who commits acts of terrorism by implying his is a “Leftist”.

    “Nothing retarded or flawed in what I am stating”

    Oooh, don’t let this Paul fool you. What he didn’t bother to read my link I posted above concerning James von Brunn. Also,, he didn’t bother to post any sources showing von Brunn had Leftist connections or claims to support such Leftist causes. Yep his twisted argument is grossly flawed, alright.

    “free their minds from the leftist brainwashing that the Neo Nazis have anything in common with conservative American politics.”

    Mmmm Blah!! Hahahaha!!!

    Wow. That’s really RE-tarded, dude.
    Oh sure. They have A LOT in common with KKKonservative American politics. Here are a few examples:
    1.) They’re opposed to immigration(legal and illegal) as much as the next wing-nut..
    2.) They’re opposed to Affirmative Action
    3.) They’re opposed to gays getting married and gays-Rights.
    4.) They’re opposed to anything that will benifit non-Aryans. After all, the Republican extreme right is a pro-white interests party. Wanna see good example of this???
    Then I suggest you see how politics is conducted in Arizona. See the legislatures being placed on ballots for voter approval by the committee of the whole. This legislatures are designed by the Republican party. Also, in case you haven’t noticed this one, there are documented evidence caught on video showing neo-Nazis do support KKKonservative Republicans. There’s one showing the local NSM sieg-heiling to Sheriff Joe Arpaio as he rides by in his private entourage back in March during a march against arpaio. Of course, joe is a hardline Republican and they love him.

    Maybe you’re from Europe where their politics differs from ours? This could be why you’re got your head spinning like a bobble-head toy. And in case you wanted to know, I am not a “Liberal”. Sorry to disappoint you, though.

  • Paul

    Nothing retarded or flawed in what I am stating, Your low blow trolling are the same tactics Nazis use. If those against racism and antisemitism, like I am, want to make a difference they’ve got to free their minds from the leftist brainwashing that Neo Nazis have anything in common with conservative American politics.

    Of course anarchists hate conservative Republicans. Anarchists hate anyone who sees the value in government oversite and regualations, minor or major. If groups like. S.P.L.C. want to gain more support for a common cause against racists and anti Semites then they’ve got to drop their leftist political banner to do so. 19% of Americans who classify themselves as “Liberal;” is not a group to get anything done with.

    The battle against racism has nothing to do with politics, labeling left or right, Republican or Democrat …. but has everything to do with matters of the heart. Good versus evil.

    Neo Nazis are NOT radical right! Radical right are anarchists whose goals are no government, communist or democratic. Think out of the box and embrace the reality. Neo Nazis are very close in thinking to Communists, totalitarianism, and hate all vestiges of republics and democracies. Labeling Neo Nazis as the “radical right” just confuses the issue and stems from another agenda that has nothing to do with the fight against racism.

    Those who refuse to comprehend what I am explaining will only marginalize themselves and negate whatever efforts they put into fighting racism.

  • GENO the Valkyrie Warlord

    And speaking of Anarchists. One can check the infoshop news which btw, is an Anarchist news outlet. It doesn’t appear to me that they are leaning favorably to the Right.

    What Paul is implying is quite mind-boggling, yet laughable.
    I think its actually retarded to assume the petty belief that the Radical Left shares a lot in common with the Right. I don’t see how pro-Abortionist can get along well with pro-life nor I don’t see how pro-gay Rights crowd can get along with the religious Right. I don’t see how the pro-Affirmative Action can get along well with pro-white interests groups or the anti-War and the Emperialists and so on and on…

    Typical mind games these wing-nuts like to play.
    If you want to join “the real fight against racism”. You don’t lunp the Left and Right together. You can, however unite specific groups with a common cause. Say for example–the Hispanc and Black communities in L.A. should stand together to address the gangster problem in that city. Or the Natives and whites in Rapid City to address the anti-indian issue in that city. And so forth.

    White supremacists are hardly easy to work out a solution to resolving the continued racial problem. So please, be realistic.

  • Marisa

    Juan Rangel, you need to face reality. Von Brunn was absolutely TYPICAL of the extreme right wing.

  • Paul

    My political understanding is hardly inadequate. Anyone who can drop their private agendas and is a truth seeker can realize true left from right. In order to defeat racism and fascism all agendas must be dropped and all from different political perspectives must be united. Conservative and Liberal. S.P.L.C. does a disservice to the cause of defeating racism by equating it with Conservative American politics. It ain’t so. These Neo Nazis have more in common with leftist propagandists than they do American constitutionalists. Drop your leftist political agendas and join the real fight against racism!

  • mountaingirl08

    I too grew up in SC. The KKK was very active in the largely rural county in which we resided.when I was a child.
    I stopped going to Sunday School, when the teacher talked about “jigaboos” during class. I was disgusted and angry, altho. I said nothing, but I never went back that class. I thad hought going to church and Sunday School was suppposed to bring people closer to God, not to the crossburners

  • Carrie

    Just as our president has ties to radical far left terrorists like Bill Ayers? Would you guys say his association with people like Ayers means Obama shares his views?

  • GENO the Valkyrie Warlord

    The above comment by Paul is sadly mistaken and gravely flawed.
    Here are just a few examples of why this is so, but the link at the bottom has all the facts on von Brunn:

    1.) In James von Brunn’s book “Kill the best Gentiles”. He credits all the persons, organizations, and publications that helped shaped his beliefs and his political stance. He made a list of names of those he admired and cherished the most and NOT A SINGLE A ONE OF THEM WAS AN ALLY/FRIEND OF THE POLITICAL LEFT.(see the names and do an extensive research, so the SPLC’s findings still stands)
    2.) Evidently from the SPLC’s articles have already noted that von Brunn has long been associated with individual extremists who were of the far right political spectrum.
    3.) The main core of Anarchism is of no government. Then again there are several identifications of Anarchist. Some of which are strongly opposed to the radical right. We have seen anarchist trashing Republican conventions nationwide.

    A link to Ernie’s on von Brunn:
    http://ernie1241.googlepages.com/vonbrunn

  • Ruslan Amirkhanov

    Wow Paul, the only thing you cleared up is that your understanding of politics and history is woefully inadequate. There are many types of anarchists, but few are considered right wing. Right or left is related to whether a certain force wishes to preserve the either the status quo or a previous form of society(right), or whether they aspire to change the society in a progressive direction(left).

    Nice try though.

  • Juan Rangel

    Paul, please spare us the political ideologies.

    Most of the readers have a quick grasp of political ideas and the political spectrum.

    So in that regard, let’s not confuse the issue.

    Whatever set-off this man to commit what he did, is something that S.P.L.C has been saying all along.

    The winds of intolerance are being fanned by so called politicians and zealots on the airwaves who every day add fuel to the fire.

    Racist politicans and their ilk have no shame, and just like the title of the article states: Museum shooter had ties to racist leaders.

    This guy was like a bulldog that had so much hatred and anger, that whenever he heard all of this hatred going on around him, he probably felt they were right.

    Not to mention that coming in contact with those leaders, probably cemented his conviction of carrying on his ideas into the next level–by sacrificing his life for their racist movement.

    Similar to what a terrorist would do for his cause.

    Become a martyr.

    Sad…truly sad.

    I don’t think these events although isolated, are going to dissapear.

  • nicole

    I live in SC. We have the second or third largest population of hate groups in the nation. We live this crap everyday here. Our kids go to school and get called names, the churches preach that hate message and only 1/2 of the facts, and because that radical white wing has been in power for so long, its one of the main reasons we are at the bottom for everything good and at the top for everything bad. Those same types of “hate spewers” are in all the right places to ensure that this type of behavior is not only tolerated, but condoned. That you SPLC for tracking and keeping us on our toes. Our President has protection and intelligence to keep him from getting hurt or killed. There are millions of us out here everyday just going about our business as that securitu guard was at the museum, and now he is gone.

    It is time for Congress to protect us, the ordinary citizens and validate that this behavior is not just a facade!

  • Paul

    While I support S.P.L.C.’s mission and information sharing on these hate groups and the dangerous characters within, the labeling of James von Brunn as being of the radical right is a misnomer based on fallacious understanding of the spectrum of politics. What is the true far right radicals? Anarchists. Those who don’t believe in or want government at all. That is not James von Brunn.

    A proper study of politics in not viewing it as a circle but a flat line. Communism, total totalitarianism, is on the the far left and anarchists are on the far right. Those political ideologies are the exact and distant polar opposites of each other.

    Where do the fascist hate groups that James von Brunn belongs to fit in the political spectrum? Yes, to right of Communists and Socialists but to the far left of freedom loving capitalists who cherish our constitutional liberties and unencumbered free enterprise system. Only political group to the right of those who wish to preserve the freedom fought for by our fore fathers are anarchists. Not racist fascists such as James von Brunn.

    Labeling Neo Nazis like James von Brunn as being right wing extremists is far left propaganda. Just because these erroneous thoughts have been repeated for years does not make it so.

    Communists ~ Socialists ~ Fascists ~ REPUBLICans ~ Anarchists (left to right) is the proper order of political understanding. James von Brunn is not truly of the political far right but is actually to left of what Americans hold dear, our Constitutional liberties.

    Neo Nazis want to use government to inhibit the freedoms of those of different ethnic groups, races and colors. That is what Hitler did and the differences between Hitler compared to Stalin were minimal.

    Hope this helps to clear up what has for too long been a total misunderstanding of politics and misuse of political labeling.

    Thank you.

  • Chris Diaz

    OMG, what a HUGE surprise. So all these guys saying it’s only about benign pride in their “race” or that they are “nationalists” not supremacists are actually part of a supremacists hate movement. I am simply shocked. Yeah, I was being sarcastic.

  • GENO the Valkyrie Warlord

    Ha.

    I guess this latest finding is a big slap in the funny faces of those who are trying their best to point out that von Brunn was a radical leftist.

    Aah.hahahaha…..