But in reality their entire motivation derives from the false notion that they’ll ever be asked to do these things, and particularly that those orders are going to come from the current administration, or any other non-right administration.

The backstory behind this is easily obtained by listening to people like Glenn Beck or Alex Jones, who take old John Birch Society conspiracy theories and dress them up in modern drag.

It’s clear from not only their own words but those of their followers, including those that have posted comments here, that OK is purely a front group for organizing an armed right wing revolution in the US.

Know then, Threepers, that you are far from being the only armed citizens in this nation. You won’t just be fighting the non-OK (ie, the vast majority of) police and military, you’ll be against your own neighbors, many of whom will rise to help stop you, either directly or indirectly. If that’s what you crave, continue down your chosen path. You will find all of us there.

Are you for real?

I fail to see any hate speech whatever in the person’s post to the Oath-Keepers site (and it doesn’t necessarily mean it is an “Oath-Keeper” who is posting either!)

Do you want to share with us your inside knowledge of how the revelation of Federal Reserve system owners equals anti-semitism (I assume you are referring to this list, since there is nothing else in that post except for “Jewish-sounding” names that appear on the list)

Are you trying to equate the disapproval of a world banking system and the publication of the names of its interested parties, with “anti-semitism”? Because there is no logic to it.

Listen, I’ve been an SPLC contributor and supporter for a long time, and I trust we’ll get over this mistake eventually, but this attack on “Oath-Keepers” is way over the top.

Yours is another in a series of poor efforts to position Oath-Keepers with something “bad” with no evidence.

Your “evidence” is a post by someone on an Oath-Keepers site by someone who is obviously opposed to the Federal Reserve banking system, revealing that it is a privately-owned system, and exactly who the owners are. He doesn’t advocate violence, now does he? He seeks support of a law which would reveal more of the secretive inner workings of the Fed and maybe even set these conspiracy theories to rest.

If the information was false then many book authors especially, and bloggers would have been sued a long time ago. If the families mentioned have “jewish-sounding” names (I gather that is what you are alluding to) and they are owners of the Federal Reserve banking system, then that’s the way it is – or no? you have evidence to the contrary?

I know of many instances of Jews speaking out against this kind of muzzling of criticism, allowing these same prominent banking families to hide behind charges of “anti-semitism”. Harry Makow comes to mind, for one.

And as for muzzling criticism, David Icke has been a target of “anti-semitism” charges despite having enrolled thousands of Jewish supporters in his crusade which is not “hate-based” but more correctly, “love-based” and decidedly non-violent!

Fritz Springmeier, an author of books revealing links between blood-line ruling families (some Jewish, most not – but never, never disparaging Jews) was set up and wrongly convicted of “federal crimes” and despite never having advocated violence or expressing hate, appears unjustly on the SPLC list recently published of “dangerous individuals and groups”. I have politely asked SPLC to conduct further investigation since his wife has developed quite a defense of his innocence (google for it) and Fritz (now serving hard time) has NEVER advocated hate or violence.

Compare that to about 90+% of convicted haters continuing their campaigns from prisons.

SPLC and its supporters should take more care in separating genuine, sincere and specific criticsm, from the real and hateful generalities that have guided the formation of hate groups since long before the first publication of Mein Kampf.

I also know that SPLC is up to their necks in genuine hate-groups and criminals who ARE targetting Jews and synagogues and it does their valuable task no service whatever to pull them into a patently “leftist” paranoid “watch” of a new group that is NOT hate-based or violent.

Those of us who support or are skeptical about this tasteless “witch-hunt” are still waiting for the first shred of evidence that this “Oath-Keepers” group is actually involved in “hate” and is likely to become a problem. SPLC must not be used as a forum for politically correct character assasination by shouting “conspiracy-theorist” as if that really does equal “right-wing racist hater”.

And finally, please, I would like more SPLC members and supporters to do their own research and help guide this organization back to its stated purposes. Any other approach will make enemies where there are none.

Comment by Tom Rankin on October 26, 2009 at 10:59am
Hello All,

I am a new member from Morgan City,
LA. I am not sure which region I am in.

I have recently sent the following email to every one I know:

Friends of Liberty,

Is there anyone here that does not understand the agenda of the “powers that be”?
New World Order (UN) with one World Money (IMF)

Audit the Fed = End the Fed
Hr-1207 and S-604 should not be added to any other bill or watered down in any way. Hr-1207 & S-604 should stand alone.

End the Fed = End NWO (New World Order)

Below is the list of the owners of the 12 Central USA Banks that run the Federal Reserve System:

– Rothschild Bank of London
– Rothschild Bank of Berlin
– Lazard Brothers of Paris
– Israel Moses Seif Banks of Italy
– Warburg Bank of Amsterdam
– Warburg Bank of Hamburg
– Lehman Brothers of New York
– Kuhn Loeb Bank of New York
– Goldman, Schs of New York
– Chase Manhattan Bank of New York

In all, there are about 300 VERY POWERFUL, partly foreign individuals that own the 12 Central Banks of USA.
Their Agenda is:
New World Order
One World Money

Lets all get on the same page. The root of our problem is the Banking Cartel. It has an agenda to control the world and its money. When you have an unlimited supply of money that cost you nothing but space on a hard drive you can buy all the government you want.

I am sorry, but I can not take the opinion of someone named after a Pokemon seriously; after all, that makes it seem like someone is in his teens.

Sincerely,

Patrick M. Fahey
Honorably Discharged Lance Corporal

What the group says it stands for and what it does may be different. True. It also may be the same. Do you have evidence for the former?

Groups “like this” turn off the road they started on. I imagine this is true of many groups. What evidence do you have that this group has a propensity to do this any more than any other group? And if it does turn from the road it’s on, don’t you think people who joined for the original road would leave it?

Joining makes you a spy for one? I don’t understand what you’re talking about. So as an ACLU member am I a spy for one? How do you possibly come to that conclusion?

Is there anybody on this website that has any concrete evidence to suggest this organization is bad? Anybody?

Happy Veterans Day to all who have served and to their families.

On the other hand, read and digest thoroughly the above posts of Rob and especially VAPA!!! I could follow these
men in a New York second! I may disagree with some of their opinions but I see nothing of arrogance or a “I can fix everything” attitude.
I am thankful for the good posts on this thread. I am beginning to change my mind also regarding the Oathkeepers but at least rob and VAPA are giving me the opportunity to listen to a calm and reasonable response. Thank you to you both.
Dakotahgeo, M.Div. Pastor/Chaplain

I recently formed a group called Veterans Against Police Abuse and soon after was made aware of the Oath Keepers by a friend. I am still researching the Oath Keepers and haven’t yet decided if I would like to join or not. I am truly undecided.

I am a military officer who has spent a little over two years in Iraq and Afghanistan since those conflicts started. I am passionate about the Constitution and liberty and I am alarmed by what I see as the subtle erosion of our freedoms here at home. I absolutely agree with the stated goals of the Oath Keepers and passionately believe our armed forces, military and civilian, and elected officials must treat their oaths as more than traditional words to be muttered on the way to a paycheck. There is a fine line between “citizens” and “subjects” and it’s not a conspiracy theory that educated and concerned citizens must keep their government in check if they are to maintain freedoms. Look around the world as see how “freedom” flourishes. It is not something to be taken for granted and is only purchased and maintained by the very best among us and at a very costly price.

I have come to this website seeking legitimate verifiable evidence that the Oath Keepers have illegal, immoral, or unspecified goals. I watched the Hard Ball program and saw no evidence offered. I have reviewed their website. I do not want to put my support behind a group with bad intentions. If somebody here has actual evidence and a good argument why I should not join this group, please post it here. If you do not, please don’t muddy the waters with your reply.

A little about me. I consider myself libertarian but have voted Democrat my entire adult life (I’m in my mid thirties). I not only voted for Obama but traveled to attend his inauguration. While he hasn’t achieved all I wished he would and I disagree with some of his decisions, I am very glad he is in office. I am not at all religious and I am certainly not racist or homophobic. Many consider me “liberal” while I consider myself “conservative.”

My guess is the Oath Keepers attract a lot of right wing people who I would not personally like. I see some of their posts on that website and I’m sure I would disagree with many of them on a wide range of issues. BUT, I am not concerned with defending the rights of people who think like me on everything. I am interested in working with people who defend the liberties that allow us all to think differently and disagree with one another. That’s the point of our liberties. As long as the group has a live and let live attitude and will defend my freedom to believe in God, or not, and to be liberal or conservative and to partake in the democratic process without using the machinery of the government against me…then I support this group.

If anybody here has evidence to suggest the group wishes not to preserve liberty for all people but rather to enforce their own views upon me, please post that information here.

At this juncture, the fact they very rightly admonish the previous President for his many failures does not convince me they are anti-Obama. Their quotes of Jefferson (a non-Christian “liberal” by most standards) also makes me think they may be narrowly focused on liberty; it is interesting to invoke Jefferson as he was a non-Christian who worked with Christians like Roger Williams for the freedom to precisely be different and disagree on important matters.

Again I’m here to ask anti-Oath Keepers who have something worthwhile to contribute to please do so. I haven’t made up my mind but I find nothing in this thread to suggest they don’t deserve my full support. Thanks for your time.

The obvious answer is violating civil rights protected under the Constitution and Bill of Rights, violating the Rules of Engagement during War time, and violating the Articles of the Geneva Convention.

Until the constitution is completely shredded (not quite there yet) as some are trying so hard to do the it still remains the supreme law of this Republic.

Master Sergeant, USAF, (ret)

Not only is your spelling a telltale sign of your lack of intelligence, your statement confirms it.

Do not fight with a pig, if you do you both get muddy and the pig enjoys it.

For the rest of you keep putting in the facts. And thanks for your service.

“Prohibited Activities. Military personnel must
reject participation in organizations that espouse
supremacist causes; attempt to create illegal
discrimination based on race, creed, color, sex,
religion, or national origin; advocate the use of
force or violence; or otherwise engage in
efforts to deprive individuals of their civil rights….”

With careful examination i do not see anything on Oath Keepers that rule out anyone because of race, creed, color or religion. As a mater of fact their oath to defend the constitution of the US also insures to guarantee every ones civil rights. SPLS conflict with the oath on the basis that it is based in conspiracy theories is a rise for concern, let me say TO SPLC put your fears aside and practice some Faith. Follow my reasoning, “If the conspiracy theories are untrue than they will not have to violate any orders, But if they are true then sleep safe tonight in the knowledge that their are Military Service men that will not violate the constitution resulting in our civil rights and liberties are protected.

On another note In the military their are Blacks, Whites Hispanics, Women, Men, Gays. Their are also arian brothers, KKK, Blood’s, Crips, Latin Brothers, and the list can go on for all sorts of gang members that are in the military. THIS rule as well as may others only leave the Chain of command to say and think “Their Are No Gangs in The Military” Just like their are no alcoholics or drug addicts. Why? because the regulations make no acknowledgement of Addition…. It is a control/discipline issue. The military is a totalitarian society. It has very little room for sociology.
These are the facts.

Really?
This was the excuse offered by all the Nazi’s at Nuremberg and you guys did not accept it then.

Why would you accept it now?

Consistency, thou art a gem.

The reich wingnuts do not have any facts on their side, so they must resort to baldfaced lies such as this one.

So, the official name for the Nazis, the NSDAP, or in English, “German National Socialist Workers Party”, doesn’t mean they are leftists? Or Socialists?

This reich wingnut talking point has been completely debunked by finer minds than mine.

The Nazis were not lefties. They sent a lot of lefties to the gas chambers.

The reich wingnuts do not have any facts on their side, so they must resort to baldfaced lies such as this one.

Left Wing Patriot,

The problem with your statement is that you leave the door open for an atrocity like My Lai or the Holocaust. Taking your statement to its logical conclusion, a la reductio ad absurdum, a platoon commander could order his platoon to rape all the women in a town, or herd everyone in a small town to the town square in the summer and keep them there with no supplies or sanitation for as long as the platoon commander wanted (That actually happened in the Civil War).

Using your statement neither of these actions could be disobeyed, because the individual soldier would not be able to say “NO”.

But you’re giving yourselves or your leaders the authority to decide what orders are legal or illegal.

Of course we are. during “Basic”, or “Boot Camp” we are all taught about the Law of War and what is and is not permitted. The responsibility is on each serviceman to uphold that law, and not break it. You are held individually responsible for transgressions against that law.

What I think you are saying is that there is no circumstance under which a serviceman could legally refuse an order, because he is not supposed to even consider if an order is unlawful. Please give me an example of an unlawful order. Are you saying that every order, no matter how specious on its face, should be obeyed? What if you were given an order to slaughter women and children?

Each serviceman is responsible for his own actions. The Nazis at the Nuremberg trials were held accountable. Their protestations of “Befehl ist Befehl” were not regarded.

Let me try again. You don’t deny that Oathkeepers are committing themselves to disobey orders. What you’re claiming is that you’ll only disobey illegal orders. But you’re giving yourselves or your leaders the authority to decide what orders are legal or illegal.

I would suggest you make sure you’ve memorized the Uniform Code of Military Justice (U.S. Code Title 10, Chapter 47), especially Subchapter X, “Punitive Articles,” which spells out what kinds of orders are illegal and what the penalties are for disobeying orders that are not illegal.

It also provides further details of what distinguishes mutiny from sedition, which you lump together along with insubordination as “rebellion.” Only sedition really constitutes rebellion; the others are offenses that tend to disrupt military discipline and the effective performance of military duties and missions.

What it boils down to is a couple of things my drill sergeant said when I was in basic training many years ago: The Army is not a democracy. And: Who the @#$% told you to think?

I’m sorry. but i actually believe the Oath i swore as first a peace officer then a soldier means something.