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‘Tea Parties Against Amnesty’ Planned in 50 Cities Tomorrow

By Sonia Scherr on November 13, 2009 - 5:15 pm, Posted in Anti-Immigrant

In 1773, American colonists dumped tea into Boston Harbor to protest taxation without representation under British rule. If they were around today, the colonists might be surprised by the array of perceived ills around which their modern-day counterparts have been rallying at symbolic “tea parties” across the country: the Wall Street bailout, the income tax, big government, President Barack Obama, and now, the possibility of citizenship for undocumented immigrants.

Nativist leader William Gheen has joined the tea party frenzy by organizing “Tea Parties Against Amnesty and Illegal Immigration,” scheduled for this Saturday, Nov. 14, in more than 50 towns and cities nationwide. Gheen, who heads Americans for Legal Immigration PAC, said in a news release that the event is just the prelude to more tea parties and other anti-amnesty campaigning in the spring. Also sponsoring tomorrow’s protests are the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps, a nativist extremist group, and RightMarch.com, according to the event website, AgainstAmnesty.com.

The local organizers of the anti-amnesty tea parties include some prominent nativists, according to AgainstAmnesty.com. In Chicago, Rosanna Pulido served as a regional field coordinator for the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR), which the Southern Poverty Law Center lists as a hate group in part because of its ties to white supremacists. She also formed the Chicago and Illinois chapters of the Minuteman Project and represented the FAIR-financed front group You Don’t Speak for Me! In Hazleton, Pa., Dan Smeriglio heads the Voice of the People, which organized an anti-illegal immigration in Shenandoah, Pa., six weeks after Mexican immigrant Luis Ramirez was murdered there.

Often featuring nativist speakers and signs, tea parties have provided a forum for anti-immigrant sentiment since their inception early this year. This spring, Gheen E-mailed leaders of allied organizations asking them to join a coalition of anti-immigrant groups planning to attend tea parties. But tomorrow’s tea parties are different in that they’re solely targeting illegal immigration. In addition, while the tea party movement has attracted some blatantly racist groups, such as the Council of Conservative Citizens, Gheen states on AgainstAmnesty.com that the protests are open to those who “share our nonviolent and nonracist multiethnic and bipartisan support for secure borders and immigration enforcement.” He added: “Any groups, individuals or materials that are not appropriate will not be allowed in our permitted areas.”

Let’s hope that’s the case. Information about the rallies appears on the websites of former Klan boss David Duke and the racist National Policy Institute in Augusta, Ga. Posters on Stormfront, the leading white supremacist website, are also urging members to attend.  “This is great news!” wrote “ronatvan” on Tuesday. “All Stormfronters should join these huge Tea Parties! Prepare yourselves with big banners to spread our message.”

  • Draciron Smith

    Clearly this is not the place to express free thoughts or have a discussion. My last post here got zapped. I said nothing vulger, used no cuss words, made no personal insults too anybody or otherwise gave any reason for it to be deleted, It was removed without explanation. It does demonstrate why we are so close to war. There is no room for a difference in opinion any more.

  • Michael

    how dare anyone be individualistic on here! what will happen next, independent thoughts and opinions!?

  • beholder

    Tim said, on November 19th, 2009 at 4:05 pm

    Yellow smiley faces omitted for beholder.
    ——————

    Thanks Tim. It’s not that I have something against your rugged individualism or anything, it’s just that the smilies would be better if they were little skulls say, or the universal biohazard symbol.

  • http://www.allislandtrim.com/ custom cabinets suffolk county

    I don’t see the logic of these tea parties when American has long been invaded by illegal immigrants. The saga continues…

  • texasgomer

    Richard,
    Your intelligence shines through in your posts. I especially like the first one. Cheers from Texas.

  • Tim

    Snorlax’s victories are like “Mission Accomplished” banners. :P

  • Richard

    Draciron Smith,

    There are, I think, some quite good insights in your argument, and while I hesitate as a Canadian to actually take too strong a stance on an American political issue that my knowledge about is incomplete, I feel I should say a few things.

    First, while many of your facts might well be valid, I sincerely doubt that there are ‘millions’ of illegal Canadian immigrants in your country. There are, at present, only about 33 or 34 million Canadians at all, and because our quality of life is high enough, indeed is higher than America’s by some measures, there is no reason to illegally emigrate south. I know only one Canadian who might fit that description: she worked as a nurse in California for several years after overstaying her visa, but disliked the system enough to return home. This kind of illegal residance was not considered a huge deal in that time, today accomplishing such a thing would likely be much harder.

    The other thing I find interesting is the combination of a call for less taxation and government, while at the same time arguing for the removal of the main motivation for illegal immigration: low paying, unsafe jobs that are nonetheless better than what is availible in the immigrant’s own country/home. It might be difficult to reconcile both.

    Currently, the world’s major corporations all call out in the support of weakened national governments and removing barriers to trade, which typically means less regulation and more incentives for companies to take their business where it is the cheapest to operate: developing nations with abhorant working conditions; or in rarer cases, to bring cheaper labour to a nation like the USA. The issue here is that calls for reduced government and reduced taxes often benefit the corporations that seek this cheap labour and create the circumstances where illegal immigration can happen, so it can be a double edged sword.

    A related point. Immgration laws may be strengthened in one nation, and hiring practices may be strengthened to discourage hiring illegal immigrants under the minimum wage, but immigration by definition requires two countries. As long as conditions remain unlivable for Mexicans, among others, than those people are going to seek a better life for themselves. If they can immigrate legally or gain amnesty, many will do so, but if they cannot? Desparation is a powerful motivator, and it may well be that no amount of reform in the USA, or any other nation, can stop this kind of immigration as long as the source nations remain underdeveloped.

    The only real solution to the problem of illegal immigration, globally anyway, seems to be reducing the inequality between developed and developing nations, and thus the incentive to immigrate to begin with. Like I said, there aren’t actually a swarm of Canadians trying to head south, because we have no need for it. Reform doesn’t necessarily require draconian government measures to redistribute wealth, but a major change away from multinational corporations and a massive reform of the IMF and World Bank seem to be the bare minimum if any real progress is going to be made.

    In the case of the latter two organizations designed to reduce poverty, they have created it virtually everywhere they have opperated by attacking government programs, privatizing everything, and converting the economies to cash crops. This kind of policy IS going to create poverty, and poverty will lead to attempts at immigration legal and otherwise. So while I hesitate to suggest any single solution to an American policy question, I would argue that ‘solving’ illegal immigration cannot be accomplished inside a single nation’s borders, or within an economic system that has led to ever increasing inequality.

  • Richard

    Snorlax,

    As much as I hate this falling into a petty, likely to be ongoing, argument between us, your last post claims ‘victory’ on the grounds that I “admitted I was a centrist” when earlier I claimed to be of the left.

    It’s true that I did claim to be of the left in my original post, less obvious is where I say I’m centrist. Let’s look at my response to your first critique of my post, since in your victory claim you say that I ‘just admitted’ this fact.

    In my first paragraph I criticised your use of offensive terms against anyone you disagree with, while claiming that because they did it first, you are perfectly justified in doing so.

    In my second paragraph I stated that I oppose right-wing economics and vastly prefer a state that actively funds and promotes education, healthcare, and equality while combatting poverty and privatization.

    In my third paragraph I stated my support for strong equality and social freedoms, a philosophy usually associated with the left, while the right is seen as supporting traditional or conservative values.

    In my fourth and fifth paragraphs, I stated that because all of my political views are left leaning, it makes no sense to call me centrist let alone right wing. Nowhere in either of my posts did I ever claim to be anything other than left wing, though I twice state in the post that I am too far to the left to be considered centrist, so evidence of my ‘inconsistancy’ seems surprisingly thin on the ground given your gloating tone.

    In any case, it was never my intent to get into a shouting match with you, but if you insist on arguing your point, I will clairify my positions, which have remained consistant, as often as necessary. However, if you intend to attack the political positions of people who disagree with you or the way you make your arguments, I recommend two things.

    1: Don’t assume that anyone who finds your way of presenting your arguments immature is in the thrall of the ‘Reich’, they might just think comparing your political opponents to Nazis weakens your argument.

    and

    2: Actually take the time to read the post your are criticising before claiming things like an admission of centrism, for that matter take the time to read any post before criticising it, since in your first post you responded to an alleged allegation by me that you did not call Obama a ‘Commie Nazi’, annother statement I clearly never made.

    But don’t feel you need to take my advice. If you feel you have nothing better to do than to try and ‘win’ a debate by pointing out contradictions that you invent or attacking the opposing side for using techniques that you feel no shame adopting from them, no one’s going to stop you.

  • Draciron Smith

    This “discussion” is a great example of the disconnect in this nation which is leading us down the path of civil war. We have people from the “left” and people from the “right” and lots of name calling.

    We also have diversionary tactics. Iraq for example, what exactly does that have to do with illegals?

    Then you have the emotive “racists” meant to smear anybody who disagrees with one’s viewpoint. Yet illegals come from all over the world. I once had an illegal from Ireland try to recruit me into the IRA. There are millions of Canadians here illegals. Race has nothing to do with the issue. Hispanic illegals however are far less likely to learn English than people from anywhere else. That’s as close as ethnicity comes to playing a role in this issue.

    The bulk of people in this country could really care less about either party any more. We’ve been betrayed so often by money grubbing power hungry idiots from both parties that we honestly just want them gone. Independents are not the largest political group in most states. Many people still affiliated with either party are disgruntled at best with a large number ready to leave that party.

    More so both Neocon and Democrap support amnesty. The only roadblock is the vast majority of Americans strongly oppose it. So party affiliation has nothing to do with the issue.

    Yet we see the same political animosity rearing it’s head here in this debate. All the mud slinging rather than actual discourse. We could have colonies on Mars right now, this moment for a fraction of what illegals have cost US taxpayers. They are bad for the economy, bad for worker safety, bad for racial relations in this country, bad for national security, bad for Democracy, harm our citizens and the issue itself is one of the most critical in moving our nation down a road which leads to American spilling American blood. Both parties have alienated the American people and their stance on illegals is a major part of it. Yet there is no recognition of either the failure to heed the will of the people nor even the danger in doing so.

    The problems brought here by illegals transcend gender, race, income, political idiology and smack every American in the face every day.

    The reaction by both Left and Right? You see it right here. Name calling and infighting. Both sides attempting to belittle the tea party movement or hijack it for their own purposes. Sorry the tea party movement rejects both parties as corrupt and lacking in vision. The tea party movement is demanding solutions and there is a very clear or else in the movement’s words and actions. The corruption must end. The illegals need to be sent packing. Taxes must be drastically reduced. We want the gov out of our lives. The US Constitution IS our light in the darkness. All those actions like the Patriot act, the CDA, the Ricco act, no knock warrants, the clipper chip and the long list of attacks on our civil liberties need to be reversed and never considered again. The legal system needs to return too guilt vs innocence not these political games that send so many innocents to prison and so many guilty back too the streets.

    Conservitive or Liberal who cares? Both just mean you been suckered by a faulty, corrupt and misleading agenda which is designed to pit American against American and keep us so busy fighting each other nobody is watching the politicians or the cookie jar they keep raiding. Wake up America. That’s what the Tea party movement is saying. ENOUGH! We have had enough, we have puked up the corruption and lies. We are not going to take it any more. That’s what people mean when they say “we want our country back”. It means just that. America belongs too the PEOPLE. Not some of us, not the elite, not the wealthy, not the intellectuals, too ALL of us.

    A minor clarification on my previous post. The law forbids the rich as well as the poor from stealing bread as was well put by a contemporary of the French revolution. Not an exact or full quote but simple fact is the poor are the most likely to commit crimes. Illegals are by def poor. You cannot import tens of millions of impoverished people and not expect a surge in crime. Every wave of imigration in the past has seen such. The Dutch, the Irish, the Italians, the Poles, the Peurto Ricans, poverty creates a great nursery for crime.

    Illegals are specifically used to create poverty. If companies were willing to pay a working wage for the labor then they’d just hire Americans. That’s the whole point of using illegals, they can pay lower than poverty level wages and get away with it. Thus ensuring poverty. Amnesty just means a whole new crop of illegals arrive to take the jobs of former illegals. Those former illegals are in worse shape than before they became citizens. They lose their jobs in most cases, still live lives of abject poverty, lack the language and social skills to move out of ethnic neighborhoods, and wind up both poor and unemployed.

    Until we destroy the mechanism of hiring people below a living wage and no min wage increases are just a tax hike on the people who can least afford it not a way of securing a living wage. It is at the CEO and hiring manger level we have to wage this war. Remove the jobs and illegals go home and we have more room for legal immigratnts. The poor in this nation regain affordable housing and jobs denied too them because illegals were doing them fro far less than an American could afford to live on. We reduce gov expenses by billions. The war in Iraq was cheap compared to the war waged on us by illegals. Crime goes down considerably and poverty is drastically reduced.

    It is the heart and soul of America which is threatened by illegals. The American dream itself is what is most in danger. The idea that hard work, luck or talent will take you as far as your willing to go in this country. That one can improve one’s lot by their own hand and leave a better tomorrow for one’s children. That is what is most threatened by illegals.

  • Ken King

    Although I blame the employers who entice and hire illegal aliens for any financial strain on our public services in subidizing the cost of this illegal practice, I am not in favor of an amnesty program that looks the other way on breaking our laws. I am a supporting member of SPLC and a grandchild of Polish immigrants who took the appropriate steps to embrace the american culture and become U.S. citizens in a legal fashion. I see amesty as another inequitable political solution and an easy out for Congress at the tax payer’s expense. It is also a desciminatory practice against law abiding citizens. I welcome all civil opposing comments and remain open to further dialogue.

  • Tim

    Yellow smiley faces omitted for beholder.

  • Tim

    “Snorlax said,

    on November 18th, 2009 at 10:51 am

    I see this has devolved into a bashing contest between me and Tim.”

    Yup, a one-sided one. You’re the one angry enough to bash, I am simply questioning your motives. I seem to have gotten you angry.

    “You STILL lose, Tim.”

    If you say so. Just please explain why. I have not really taken a side to any issue. Again, I have mostly been pointing out the lack of civility between both sides. Responding to my post the way you did, I’d say that you yet again have proven my point.

    “And your side invented verbal violence. FOX News is full of hateful shouting maniacs from your side, Tim.”

    I don’t think you read my responses or any of my posts. I have mentioned all news organizations as “spewing hate”. Of course, the only one that you like to point out is FOX News. That is because you only see what you want to see. I think that you are incapable of pointing out the flaws in your own side. You refuse to call out the “shouting maniacs” at MSNBC. For that, you have proven me correct. These days, all of the major news outlets are completely biased. They seem to be mostly opinion platforms instead of news organizations. Neither side existed when verbal violence was invented. However, people like you sure seemed to perfect it.

    I am beginning to think that you are probably verbally abusive even when not discussing politics.

    “All you are proving is there is a deep divide in this country and it is caused by your side, Tim.”

    Snorlax, you are attempting to turn my own argument against me without any evidence that has anything to do with ME or other conservatives that aren’t politicians.

    I will repeat, for the FIFTH time. I have not attempted to justify anything that took place during a Republican administration. Then again, I have excluded those topics from my posts and responses. You seem to think that GW Bush and his cabinet are family members of mine. How would you like for me to say that your side murdered millions of people with a dissenting opinion, slaughtered people just because they wore glasses, and stole the land of countless people? You probably wouldn’t like that, and I probably wouldn’t do it because it would have no purpose in an intelligent debate.

    Then again, I doubt that you are capable of intelligent debate.

    “You and your Religious Reich Wingnut pals are destroying our great nation from within, Tim. And when you do that, you REALLY lose, Tim.”

    You are calling me by name after every sentence, which tells me that you’re legitimately angry with me.

    Can you provide evidence from any of my posts where I have demonstrated myself as being part of the “Religious Reich”? Do you know what a “Reich” is, or are you simply trying to link any religion to the Nazis?

    “You support torture and treason, Tim. You lose.”

    Have I said that I support it? Can you provide evidence that I support it? Wait, don’t tell me. This will be another post that you do not read, full of questions that you will not answer. That is because you know you are wrong. You are employing the cowardly and immature tactic of placing an odious label on a person that disagrees with you, right?

    If you’re doing that, you surely lose.

    Do you have Tourettes Syndrome, or something?

  • beholder

    I’d say Snorlax won that “frank exchange of views” as they say in diplomatic circles, but my view of Tim’s comments was negatively influenced by the yellow smiley faces, so perhaps I should stay out of it.

  • Tim

    Snorlax,

    One last thing. I really think you should take inventory as to how you engage with people that you disagree with. In none of my posts have I justified any actions for anybody. I have simply pointed out the lack of civility between both sides.

    It doesn’t really matter who started it. That’s a debate for five year olds and sibling rivalry. What we have are serious problems in our society, and people like you DO NOT HELP. People like you do not reason with dissenting opinions, nor engage in any kind of civil debate, nor support anything that is a keystone of democracy that does not support your agenda. You do not try to see the other side, because in your mind, the other side has no right to exist and should not only be silenced, but also destroyed.

    You seem to make more of an effort in being offensive than in actually reading responses and trying to respond intelligently. You do not respond in order to debate, you respond in order to offend your opposition and to spew hate. You seem not to care about getting your point across because, in your mind, you believe yourself to be flawlessly correct and anyone with a differing opinion should only be ridiculed.

    You, simply by responding, have proven each and every one of my points in my posts regarding the divisions in our society and the trouble that we’re headed towards. You seem to be very passionate about what you believe in. I am going to make an assumption that you love this country more than your political ideals. Why not actually try to have an intelligent conversation with someone who does not agree with you? Why not try making it through the conversation without an insult, without making blanket generalizations, and with respect? You will find that you might even get folks to see things your way from time to time. You might even start to see things from the other way, as well. With you, that might be pushing it.

    This country has not been so deeply divided for over 130 years. The answers to our problems and to our division is in the rational, even handed, and intelligent minds of BOTH sides.

  • Snorlax

    Richard, you just admitted you’re a centrist when you earlier claimed you were a lefty.

    You lose too.

    Tonight’s box score:

    Snorlax 2
    Repukes 0

  • Snorlax

    I see this has devolved into a bashing contest between me and Tim.

    You STILL lose, Tim.

    And your side invented verbal violence. FOX News is full of hateful shouting maniacs from your side, Tim.

    All you are proving is there is a deep divide in this country and it is caused by your side, Tim.

    You and your Religious Reich Wingnut pals are destroying our great nation from within, Tim.

    And when you do that, you REALLY lose, Tim.

    You support torture and treason, Tim. You lose.

  • Tim

    Snorlax moaned,

    “I see Tim did not challenge my statements about his side, he just accused me of whining and snarling.”

    Sure I did. I haven’t tried to deny anything. In most of my posts, that has never been the point. My attack point has typically been the holier-than-thou attitude of the left. See this:

    “If we’re going to discuss WWII, let it be known that the Japanese did far worse than just waterboarding. Extreme starvation, beatings, rapes, and mass executions. That is what they were hanged for. Did we do that? YOUR side put Japanese-Americans into concentration camps, and allegedly knew that Pearl Harbor was going to happen. Your side allegedly did nothing about Al-Qaeda when it had the chance.”

    In case you were wondering, FDR was a Democrat.

    Snorlax snored,

    “The only statement he challenged was about dominionism. But dominionism DOES exist in the Religious Reich and you’d be lying to say it doesn’t. The Family, which is powerful in DC, is a dominionist group.”

    Can you define the “Religious Reich”? From what I can tell, I see a LOT more pandering to any other religion BUT Christianity at this time.

    Snorlax sneered,

    “He didn’t challenge the torture or treason or lying to start the wrong war. He admits they happened. Those three things ARE threats to our liberty by the reich wingnuts.”

    Sure I did. See above. No one denies it, but you need to include the Democrats in that, as well. They’re just as much involved as the Republicans.

    Snorlax declared,

    “You lose, Tim.”

    Nope, I won. At the very minimum, I didn’t resort to verbal violence nor display the level of hate that you do.

    Snorlax accused,

    “Your side DID all those evil things and you did not dispute the fact that they did it.”

    Again, I haven’t posted to defend any policies. You seem to keep imagining that I am doing that. What? Not going to get the fight that you hope for? :)

    Snorlax accused,

    “Your side IS a threat to liberty, Tim.”

    Well, so’s yours. Then again, that depends on how we want to define your side, or mine. If we want to say “leftists” and “right-wing” as a whole, it looks pretty bad on both sides. See my comment about lumping in “your” side in with Stalin and Pol-Pot. There’s a few more that can be thrown in there that buy into the fringe of your ideology. Those guys were on the “left”. If you want to group me in with a bunch of extremists, it can work both ways.

    Snorlax finished with,

    “I’m reading about Authoritarian Followers, and how they are so stupid they would follow Hitler or any other madman.

    We have those Authoritarian Followers in this country.

    They’re called the Republican Party”

    I am amazed at your mature and articulate prose about the stupid loony doo-doo heads.

  • texasgomer

    Tim,
    I did not say your post suggested anything other than the fact you said some Americans are your enemies. I ask you not to include me. As far as violence by the extremists, I do believe we have the right to defend ourselves from Americans or otherwise. This does not mean I am anybody’s enemy.

  • Richard

    Snorlax,

    ‘Rant’ is a reference to the way you made your points, not to their content. It strikes me as immature to use words deliberately intended to provoke as a way of proving your point, that won’t help convince people, it will only antagonize people who don’t already agree with you. Your use of the term ‘Reich’ only further proves that point.

    Second, I’m going to have to take exception to your claim that anyone who disagrees with you (or even disagrees with your tone) cannot be a member of the ‘left’. Among the many economic ‘left’ policies I stand for are public healthcare, the reduction of corporate subsidies and the redistribution of taxes away from the working and middle classes toward those whose income is disproportionately inflated by an unfair and dangerously unregulated economic system. I oppose the privatization of media, government services, the education system, and natural resources such as water.

    As far as social policies are concerned, my stance is about as far from the ‘right’ as it is possible to be. I support complete freedom of expression, religion (or lack of religion) and opinion. I also believe in equality, for people of any gender, race, sexual orientation, religion, nationality, age, class, and virtually any other group you could name. Formal equality, such as we have in Canada, where I live, is insufficient as far as I am concerned, and I actively support groups attempting to reduce and end inequalities that still plague society. Forms of social control advocated by social conservatives, no matter how they are disguised as tradition or common sense, are not arguements that I find credible.

    So if my economic outlook is far more left than right, and my social outlook is far more what is considered left than right, I fail to see how I fall in the centre let alone your ‘Reich’. I am of the left, I am progressive, and I am all for criticising Bush’s presidency, and for that matter many of the policies adopted by Obama at this point. I also happen to believe that these points can be made without resorting to childish name calling.

    Finally, I never accused you of calling Obama a ‘Commie-Nazi’, though I did attempt to correct an attempt to call him a socialist, which in my opinion is as laughable as calling him a communist or a Nazi. All of them show a lack of understandings of the words they use, but are hardly any more offensive than ‘brain damaged Reich wingnut’, wouldn’t you think?

    The political umbrella of the left is big enough for a range of stances, mine and yours are both separate from the right and too far from neutral to call centrist.

  • Draciron Smith

    Illegals are not here to become Americans. Most of them don’t even like America, many are committed to the destruction of American and a few are paid agents of terrorist groups and other enemies of America here with the express mission of harming America.

    Illegals are often economic refugees. People here to make money they cannot in their home nation. Yet they export the same cultural values and corruption that prevent them from making a good living in their own nation. Whether they are here from Mexico, Russia, Vietnam, Hondorus, Hati or Gueatimala it really doesn’t matter. Our systems works because of our battle against corruption and our values. Those are the keys to why America has succeeded where nations with far more resources have failed.

    What the color of their skin is or what religion they do or do not practice doesn’t matter.

    What DOES matter is what is in their hearts. Very few illegals love this nation. There are millions all over the world desperate to come here. Who would be proud to be Americans. Who will learn to speak English, who will work hard to assimilate into our culture. People who want the American dream. People who will contribute too this nation. People from all over the world, from Japan, from the Ukraine, from Cambodia, Vietnam, from Mexico and Argintinia.

    Each illegal displaces a person who wants to come here legally. Illegals steal affordable housing from our poor. They take jobs Americans don’t only want but also need. Illegals destroy the wage scale in America and they are bleeding the country dry both in taxpayer dollars wasted on people who rarely even like us, but also in the billions of dollars sent overseas and out of circulation in our economy. Just what the US gov spends printing bilingual documents could send millions of Americans to college every year. Even the Left now admits the billions in health care dollars spent on illegals. The US spends more on the health care of illegals than many small nations have as a GDP.

    Illegals are rarely wealthy. Most illegals who are wealthy are that way from activity in criminal gangs. As such illegals are disproportionately involved in crime. Many US gangs are comprised primarily or entirely of illegals. Russian, Mexican, Japanese, Central American, Vietmese and the list goes on of ethnic crime gangs comprised almost entirely of illegals.

    Things have reached the breaking point. The simple fact is the illegals are going home, either the US gov can do it or we the people will. The idiots on both the Left and Right can call us all the names they want, but the American people have spoken and spoken loudly. Nor is it only “White” Americans who want illegals gone. It is not a conservitive issue, many liberals are just as tired of illegals as Consiervitives. It has nothing to do with race or religion.

    When they come here, insult us by not even bothering to learn our language sometimes 40 years after they arrive, they vote illegally in our elections, then have the gall to march down our streets and DEMAND, I don’t care if they were demanding a toothbrush and a bar of soap every Christmas. They pushed it way too far when they demanded ANYTHING. Nothing short of their removal is acceptable after that. There can be no amnesty without it causing instant civil war. Time is up, no more of this treating Hispanic Americans like 2nd class citizens just so they can pretend they are combating illegals. We the people are demanding real and immediate action and will not accept anything less than that.

  • Tim

    Texasgomer,

    You said:

    “Tim,
    If you say any American is your enemy then I am not with you. All of us have the right to speak our mind no matter how outrageous. I may vehemently disagree with the racists, but I support their right to believe what they want and to speak as long as they don’t advocate breaking the law.”

    If you had read my post, you would see that the main idea was that it seems as though the extremists on the left and right are running the political show. I was pointing out that the moderate left and right seem to be on the sidelines, when we’re the majority. I was pointing out that ANY extremist does not have the best interests of a nation or her people at heart – they have their own agendas at heart. They do not care how deeply they divide the country, nor what effect that could have. I do not define that, in my mind, as a good patriot. Do you?

    If you do not think a fellow countryman can be an enemy, consider Nazi Germany and its takeover by right-wing extremists.

    Please explain to me how my post suggested that certain people do not have the right to free speech.

    Thanks.

  • Snorlax

    Richard, if you disagreed with what I said and called it a “rant”, you are NOT “on the left” as you claim.

    You’re either middle-of-the-road or a reich wingnut.

    But Richard, you are NOT a leftie, a progressive, a Democrat or anythign else left of center if you think that stating facts about the Bush Reign of Error is a “rant”.

    And I never called Obama a Commie Nazi.

    The Reich Wingnuts did. They’ve been calling him BOTH a Commie AND a Nazi for over a year now.

    Which one is it? You can’t be both!!

    It just proves Reich Wingnuts are all brain damaged.

  • Snorlax

    I see Tim did not challenge my statements about his side, he just accused me of whining and snarling.

    The only statement he challenged was about dominionism. But dominionism DOES exist in the Religious Reich and you’d be lying to say it doesn’t. The Family, which is powerful in DC, is a dominionist group.

    He didn’t challenge the torture or treason or lying to start the wrong war. He admits they happened. Those three things ARE threats to our liberty by the reich wingnuts.

    You lose, Tim.

    Your side DID all those evil things and you did not dispute the fact that they did it.

    Your side IS a threat to liberty, Tim.

    I’m reading about Authoritarian Followers, and how they are so stupid they would follow Hitler or any other madman.

    We have those Authoritarian Followers in this country.

    They’re called the Republican Party

  • Ruslan Amirkhanov

    Obama is not a socialist. He is a servant of big monied interest just like Bush.

    On the issue of Bush-Hitler references, indeed- they were often a bit much, but Bush was clearly far more analogous to Hitler, because he waged an aggressive war and started an occupation, making his business buddies rich. Both individuals used a false pretext to start a war, the difference being that Hitler apparently didn’t want to insult the world’s intelligence, so the Nazis actually went to great lengths to stage a phony Polish attack on German border positions.

    Of course Obama is basically continuing all of Bush’s war policies and occupations, therefore if Bush is Hitler, then Obama is Donitz.

  • texasgomer

    Tim,
    If you say any American is your enemy then I am not with you. All of us have the right to speak our mind no matter how outrageous. I may vehemently disagree with the racists, but I support their right to believe what they want and to speak as long as they don’t advocate breaking the law.

  • beholder

    For me, the issue is not really about whether or not there are anti-immigration “tea parties”. Americans have the right to assemble peacefully and protest the rising of the sun in the morning if they so choose. However, what does worry me is the opportunity these gatherings provide extremists with to further a nativist agenda, and to lump well-meaning immigration protesters together with the violent and hard core white supremacists, who gain legitimacy by association with a popular protest movement.

    Until we start seeing the GOP police the racists and crackpots that people their ranks, at least in terms of a policy statement about how the party intends to deal with them, I think it is fair to lay heavy criticism upon Republicans for supporting neo-Nazi organizations and a frankly un-American agenda.

    Pulling back the lens a bit more, however, it is all the more reason to educate our population about the myths and lies spread by the anti-immigrant groups. Typical misperceptions become widespread belief when reinforced by “authorities” at the head of these mass rallies. Given the attention span of the average American is about as long as your average sit-com, I am not hopeful that most who attend these “tea parties” will ever have an intelligent discussion about immigration. The average American lacks critical thinking skills, and will simply suck happily at the nipple of nativist misinformation.

    Unfortunately, many Americans are also mean, and that is the real danger: a uniting of the ignorant and the mean. Which is really what the GOP is all about, if you look closely.

  • Tim

    Richard,

    Thanks for the comment! :) For as many folks there are on the fringes, there are many, many more that are sane and just want to see the right things be done.

    I think what works up a lot of people is the idea of the government getting more involved in people’s lives. With a public insurance option, the government will end up having to do things to contain the costs of such a program, especially if coverage is extended to those here in the country illegally, as we really have no idea exactly how many are here.

    My idea of health reform would look like this: First, implement tort reform that caps the amount of damages awarded to a plaintiff, and caps the amount an attorney can make off of a particular case. Second, maybe it would be a good idea to break up the obscenely large insurance companies to try to promote more competition (I think this is already underway). Third, implement insurance “co-ops” for people who are self-employed or prefer to purchase their own insurance. Lastly, have a “public option” as an insurer of last resort. Let this public option be available to any citizen or legal resident that is out of work, or their work’s group plan just isn’t economically viable for them.

    On immigration, I think that there is a BIG difference between the folks who want our immigration laws enforced and the folks who simply don’t want foreigners here. I want to see our laws enforced, but also recognize that our immigration system is broken and needs to be reformed.

    We need to know who is coming in and out of the country. On the other side of the coin, I am sure that a man who wants to get some work up here to help take care of his family would much rather ride in a bus or take a flight to his final destination. I think that a good guest worker program would resolve a lot of the problems that we have with illegal immigration.

    For instance, you could have a migrant apply online or at a local consulate for a work permit. After giving necessary information (local police reports, a medical exam, etc), he gets his permit. He gets six months in which to enter the country, work, and then leave. Once he enters the US, the permit, and his passport, is stamped with an entry stamp. On his last day of work, he must provide a form similar to a 1099 from his employer. He pays a “departure tax” based upon that amount. He gets a departure stamp in his passport, and is on his way. In order to get next year’s permit, he simply has to show the entry and departure stamps from the previous year to demonstrate that he is properly registered, and paid income taxes. Compared to the $5,000+ paid to coyotes, the immigrant would actually save money, be able to see his family at scheduled times, and would travel in dignity and comfort. With immigrants paying into our tax system and not staying year-round, they would also not be as much of a public charge as many people feared before.

    At that point, we’ll be able to leverage our resources to hunt down the REAL bad guys …

  • Richard

    Tim,

    As someone who considers himself a man of the left, I’d have to say your most of your response to Snorlax’s rant is spot on. Just as I’m sure you don’t like being associated with the extreme right crazies, most of the people I know who consider themselves left leaning find it frustrating when our own brand of loudmouths start going at it. and as you said, Obama is not a communist nor a Nazi, though people love to throw those words around on both sides, with Nazi being a particularly meaningless term these days that should be reserved for actual fascists.

    The end of your comment interests me though, because it suggests that the common sense definition of socialism though must be different in the USA than in Europe and Canada. In those countries, save where socialism is thrown around as a slur, public healthcare systems and regulation (but not abolishment) of the market are considered social democracy, which seems far more what Obama is actually advocating.

    As far as these Tea Parties about everything from immigration to who the president is to public healthcare are concerned, as someone living in that big snowy place on the map to the north of the USA, it’s all fairly surreal.

    Immigration in Canada remains an area of contention between those who support multiculturalism and those who do not, which does not always line up with the political definitions of left and right. But the questions of why people choose to illegally immigrate and whether or not such people do more harm than good… These are complicated questions without easy answers, and it is to be hoped that those who choose to protest illegal immigration at these events and others like them are successful in preventing them from being used by fanatical groups to garner support for their racist ideologies.

    VihnLe’s description of events in Arizona offer at least some degree of hope in that direction, let us hope that at least that degree of sense prevails elsewhere as well.

  • Tim

    texasgomer,

    There are a lot of good Republicans around. I would like to think that I am one of them.

    When you have the cuts of division amongst the countrymen, the wounds are easily infected by extremists, inflaming both sides of the wound.

    My hope and prayer is that the good Republicans and good Democrats figure out the extreme left and extreme right for what they REALLY are, and finally work together to get the country back to where it needs to be.

    It’s going to be done through the thoughtful, level headed, patriotic Democrats and Republicans that love and honor this country, not with the Guevara shirted liberals nor the neon eagle conservatives. They have their own agendas, and it’s not the welfare of this country.

    It’s for her conquest from within.

    They are our ENEMIES within.

  • Tim

    “Snorlax droned,

    on November 15th, 2009 at 9:46 am

    “Are right wing people a threat to liberty?”

    Y E S !!”

    No, we’re not. Neither are liberals. Extremists on BOTH sides are!

    Snolax whined,

    “Your side LIED 900 TIMES to start the wrong war in the wrong place at the wrong time – IRAQ.

    Your side TORTURED terrorist suspects…one was waterboarded over 100 times. The Allies HANGED Japanese soldiers for waterboarding. Now your side thinks its okay.”

    If we’re going to discuss WWII, let it be known that the Japanese did far worse than just waterboarding. Extreme starvation, beatings, rapes, and mass executions. That is what they were hanged for. Did we do that? YOUR side put Japanese-Americans into concentration camps, and allegedly knew that Pearl Harbor was going to happen. Your side allegedly did nothing about Al-Qaeda when it had the chance.

    Snorlax snarled,

    “Your side committed TREASON by outing CIA agent Valerie Plame and her entire front company Brewster Jennings.”

    That was pretty stupid, wasn’t it?

    Snorlax squealed,

    “Your side are gun-toting maniacs who are threatening to shoot the President and take over the country by force. SPLC has done good work documenting these right wing domestic terrorist groups.”

    They are not OUR side. That is the same as me lumping guys like Stalin and Pol-Pot onto YOUR side. Last time I checked, they were on the fringes of your ideology.

    “Your side’s religious belief is Dominionism, which means the overthrow of the Constitution, the Bill of Rights and everything else we hold dear. Your side wants a theocratic police state. Read “The Family” for detailed proof of this.”

    Our side is made of many religious beliefs. I happen to be a Catholic, and another friend of mine is a Bahai. Last time I checked, Bahais are a serious minority in the world, and killing one in Iran gets you double virgins and extra milk and honey in the afterlife. Your side is turning the attention of Homeland Security towards returning veterans, threatening jail time for those without medical insurance, and expanding the government WAY past the bounds of the constitution. We need a smaller, well regulated government, not the big CF that we have today.

    “Your side WENT OFF THE DEEP END when you accused Obama of not being a natural born US Citizen. He is one. Your side also called Obama other slanderous LIES like un-American, racist, Commie and Nazi.”

    How is it that it was OK for your side to photoshop posters of Hitler to look like GW Bush, and not OK for people to say these things about Obama? I am not saying that either side is right, but don’t act like the wounded dove of a victim when you were probably burning Bush in effigy two years ago.

    “Tell me, how can Obama be both a Commie AND a Nazi???”

    Obama is a socialist. He is not a communist, nor a Nazi. Then again, Nazi is an insult your side LOVES to fling around … Hurts when it comes back your way, doesn’t it? :)

  • http://immigrationclearinghouse.org Adocate54

    The Mexican is correct about Gheen at war with Coe and Spencer.

    And wasn’t it just this past spring he did his “White Trash Hate Tour” around California, sharing the stage and singing the praises of Coe?

    Seems I have an email somewhere between Gheen and Coe where he rips her a new a$$hole.

    And BTW, the Tea Baggers agin Mehikuns, was a total bust.
    1000 at most showed up nationwide.

    Ho Hum. As I said before, Weeping Willy couldn’t organize three hookers for a bachelors party!

  • texasgomer

    I see the racists are still trying to take over the Republican party. Where are the decent Republicans and when are they going to put their boot in the butt of these jerks? The Republican party will lose their traditional support of businessmen if they don’t vociferously reject the bigots. Businessmen know racism is not good business.

  • molly
  • E.G. Martin

    this is to urge all Tea Parties and associated protesters an sympathizers to adopt the the COLOR Red as a symbol and to wear it at all protests and also to wear something RED every Friday, in order to help increase and maintain greater visibility and continuity.

  • Carter

    IF amnesty were given to those who crossed the Boarder illegally; what do we say to the hundreds of thousands who followed the rules and obeyed the law?

    Republicans (both Reagan & Bush 1) confronted this question and it doesn’t have an easy answer. The huge fruit & agriculture concerns had some pressure to make several “amnesty” programs down through several decades but the problem is that the cow’s nose is slowly pushing open the barn door. Once she’s out, it’s not going to be so easy getting her back in.

    To MANY this is NOT an issue of racism. It occurs with Asian peoples in other parts of the country and, in fact thousands of different people who over-stay their Visa.
    It is a very passionate issue of FAIRNESS that is tossed aside for political posturing.
    To look at this issue in “the big picture” is tough because it is not sound bites and slogans. It is questions of fairness and following the rule of law in the Country of question. The USA is MUCH more lenient than many in the EU.

  • Chris

    Great. Thanks SPLC. I attended a Tea Party back in April. Nothing in my experience at that event comes close to matching what SPLC is alleging here and how the media has characterized the events. You know, SPLC is good at accusing people of being extremists, labeling them “Nativist,” and I think that at times it is callous and arrogant.
    The Tea Party I attended included about 300 people. It was presided over by a humorous guy dressed in Colonial Period garb who thanked people for being there and reminded them where they could drop off their non-perishable food items. He read a few quotes from the founding fathers, and then introduced a number of speakers who addressed the crowd on such topics as different tax structures, small business concerns in the economic downturn, and local charities. Veterans spoke as well. There were signs (none inflammatory), there were even people of color in the crowd. All, however, were focused primarily on how government had gone crazy in its spending. And, they were none too happy about Bush’s spending either, not to mention Obama’s.
    It’s disappointing that the SPLC has chosen to label not just immigrant bashers and white supremacists as Nativist, but ANYONE who supports the belief that we are a nation of laws and who sees illegal immigration as an affront to that belief. SPLC sometimes goes too far.

  • Snorlax

    “Are right wing people a threat to liberty?”

    Y E S !!

    “If so, how so?”

    Your side LIED 900 TIMES to start the wrong war in the wrong place at the wrong time – IRAQ.

    Your side TORTURED terrorist suspects…one was waterboarded over 100 times. The Allies HANGED Japanese soldiers for waterboarding. Now your side thinks its okay.

    Your side committed TREASON by outing CIA agent Valerie Plame and her entire front company Brewster Jennings.

    Your side are gun-toting maniacs who are threatening to shoot the President and take over the country by force. SPLC has done good work documenting these right wing domestic terrorist groups.

    Your side’s religious belief is Dominionism, which means the overthrow of the Constitution, the Bill of Rights and everything else we hold dear. Your side wants a theocratic police state. Read “The Family” for detailed proof of this.

    Your side WENT OFF THE DEEP END when you accused Obama of not being a natural born US Citizen. He is one. Your side also called Obama other slanderous LIES like un-American, racist, Commie and Nazi.

    Tell me, how can Obama be both a Commie AND a Nazi??? Explain that one!!

  • John F Janusek

    It is about time.

  • VinhLe

    PHOENIX — An anti-immigration rally at the State Capitol took an unexpected turn Saturday when a group of Neo-Nazis turned out.

    American Citizens United was one of several groups protesting across the country today, opposing a comprehensive immigration reform bill.

    The group, which is against amnesty for illegal immigrants, made it clear that racism had no place at its rally. The mood, however, changed drastically when Neo-Nazi protesters tried to join.

    Police stepped in and calmed everybody down.

    American Citizens United said the Neo-Nazi message was not welcome at its cause.

    “That’s a completely, you know, racist organization,” said Jim Fairmont of American Citizens United. “This is not about racism, it’s about law enforcement. Period.”

  • http://immigrationclearinghouse.org Adocate54

    We can’t forget either that Gheen stated that anyone not agreeing with his position would be removed by the police.

    So much for others peoples freedom of speech and assembly.

    If nothing else, the FEC should investigate Gheen for the manner in which he plays fast and free with the money he scams from his supporters.

    When the FEC calls him on his actions, he arrogantly replies with something he calls “BEST EFFORTS” and then ignores them.

    Take away his source of funding, and Willy goes away. None of us believe Willy has the fire in the gut or the convictions behind his words. Only one of many taking the anti-migrant stance as a way to enrich themselves

    Take care

  • http://immigrationclearinghouse.org Adocate54

    We attended one of Gheens non events in Snead Alabama today. The organizer, a convicted felon who had been going around town strong arming the townfolk for donations failed to produce. It was an utter failure.

    http://immigrationclearinghous.....omment-995

    We’ve also been tracking Gheen’s other Tea Parties here.

    http://immigrationclearinghous.....y-parties/

  • Jen06

    Good fences make good neighbors. Every country deserves to be able to decide who comes in. I wouldn’t appreciate my neighbors barging into my house without some sort of invite. The idea that right wing people are a threat to liberty is WAY off base. We are just alarmed at what’s being done to the country by this administration. Try going to a tea party or other event and you will find smiling, polite people that are just trying to express their frustration that the government seems to be completely ignoring more than half the population. We CANNOT afford everything this administration is trying to push through. We already have a 1.4 trillion dollar deficit and more spending in sight.

  • http://www.ocweekly.com Gustavo Arellano

    You guys forgot to mention Gheen is a homophobe who’s at war with Barbara Coe and Glenn Spencer…

  • Spiny Norman

    Two posts, both totally incoherent. Hilarious.

  • Carolyn

    Do you support borders between Canada and Mexico? If not, why not? If so, why so? Are right wing people a threat to liberty? If so, how so? Trying to understand what is a hate group and what isn’t. Thank you for your help.

  • White Pro-Union French “Islamofascist” Appeaser

    All legalization of the tens of millions of Illegals in this nation would do is further undermine the idea of American citizenship.
    The Mexican immigrants are not, and would not be any less alien to white society, that old outdated and hateful America, but still representing a substantial block, in what is supposedly a “democracy”.

    However, legalization of the tens of millions of illegals would meld well with the lame wars we are fighting in belief that “everyone on earth wants to be an American, they just need our ‘help’ with ‘liberation’ and ‘freedom’”. The military-industrial agenda and legalization run lock step.

    The degeneration of the Western world couldn’t have it any better, any more formulaic, this is the ideal, utopia for degenerates.