Hatewatch Tweets
Hatewatch is managed by the staff of the Intelligence Report, an investigative magazine published by the Alabama-based civil rights group Southern Poverty Law Center.
Pentagon Shooter: Political Criminal or Just Plain Crazy?
It’s hard to say, based on the early reports coming out today, just what motivated the man who tried to murder several Pentagon police officers yesterday but was killed himself instead. Police in California had picked up John Patrick Bedell and treated him as mentally ill in years past. But at the same time, Bedell had bitterly described an evil cabal inside the government, “a tiny elite” that seeks “to control and dominate the world.”
That last statement could have come straight from the mouths of activists in the conspiracy-minded “Patriot” movement, which, as documented in a Southern Poverty Law Center report released this week, has come roaring back to life in the last year. Most Patriots believe the federal government is part of a conspiracy to impose martial law, herd Americans into concentration camps, and force liberty-loving Americans into a socialistic “New World Order.”
But Bedell also attacks the government for what he depicts as fiascos in Vietnam and Iraq — a position more closely associated with the left — and endorses the idea, also originating largely on the left, that the government was behind the 9/11 attacks in New York. He criticizes the military and the nation’s intelligence services as well, and says they and the government engage in “bribery, theft and murder.”
Based on the scant evidence available so far, Bedell may be best described as a kind of radical libertarian, a man who believed that government should be as small as possible, and that even public schools are not legitimate — education should be handled entirely privately, he wrote at one point. He was also a man with a strong bent toward conspiracy theories about events ranging from 9/11 to the disputed 1991 death of a U.S. Marine colonel.
It may be that Bedell was not primarily a would-be political killer; he may well have been a man with mental health issues who simply absorbed the overheated rhetoric that is so abundant in American political life today. What there can be little question of is that there is an enormous amount of angry rhetoric awash in our society, to the point where it’s not surprising that certain individuals feel they must act.
on March 5th, 2010 at 4:49 pm
Ultimately I am not sure that left or right are adequate terms to describe anyone’s views, except on a topic by topic basis. But even then I find such definitions more confining than convenient.
In this case, I think we can describe these actions as those of an aberration. He was a citizen: did we fail him, or did he fail us; and more importantly, are there more like him so disillusioned with our declining empire that actions such as these may become more common?
Our country has become of convenience, by convenience, and for convenience. We are eroding very swiftly from within and this incident is demonstrative of a broader social decay that we must attend to urgently.
on March 6th, 2010 at 7:14 am
“Pentagon Shooter: Political Criminal or Just Plain Crazy?”
Psychotic pothead.
on March 6th, 2010 at 12:37 pm
This guy sounds like a ‘rightie!’ Most rightwingers complain of big government, while having their hands out for ‘give-me’s.’
Due to the overwhelmingly amount of ‘mental illnesses’ in this country, it’s hard to distinguish a persons background, more so, when others around them describe such people as normal.
He talks of schools should be private, government is too big…this guy definitely sounds like a ‘rightwinger.’ Yes, he was intelligent, but, so was the BTK suspect.
We now need to know his view on taxes!
on March 6th, 2010 at 11:48 pm
It is time to stop blaming the right wing – or the left wing – for acts of violence like this. This man was simply a nut. That’s it.
And I need to remind you of this yet again, Mr. Potok: Left-wingers for the previous 8 years had been screaming that President Bush was building concentration camps. Stop making that conspiracy sound like an exclusive right-wing property. It is not.
on March 7th, 2010 at 11:48 am
Open letters to Government Officials and publishing them for his readers is just one of yeaglys’ fight against the Government, he has challenged Obama to a dual now he challenges Eric Holder to stand by his words of an open dialogues between races and wants him host a AMREN convention, his latest is to Susan Herman, ACLU still crying about the cancelled AMREN convention. He needs to let the pure White people take care of this he is drip of Native American his cries are an embarrassment to the True people when he introduces himself as a “Comanche”, very detrimental to the People when he is so ANTI-GOVERNMENT. Yes we Native Americans do have issues with the Government, but he “NEVER” took time to address these seriously….he does make light of them by calling us crybabies and wants us to forget about the past, yet he is crying his tears in his fights for the White Supremist! GO FIGURE!!!!.
I don’t want to see this person who claims to be Comanche at any Pow Wow I attend, why he could open fire as an infiltrator on our people who have some Black, or Mexican, firsts always happen. This man Hates Blacks, Mexicans, Gays, the schools, our Government.
America has failed him, thought he hold degrees that could benefit the People, he chooses to be Anti-Government and Anti-anyone not pure white! He turns to the people who he wants to rule America, the white anglo-saxon puritans. He is getting scareier by the day, losing his friends and not really gaining any…..which makes him closer to these people turn on innocents…..when they go over the edge.
on March 7th, 2010 at 2:28 pm
This guy was in no way affiliated with We Are Change. this was a solo attack from what I have heard in the press no one I know is affiliated with him in anywhay that I know of.
this list that was compiled as shown http://www.splcenter.org/get-i.....e-united-s
as saying “Patriot groups define themselves as opposed to the “New World Order,” engage in groundless conspiracy theorizing, or advocate or adhere to extreme antigovernment doctrines.” is what I have a problem with…..and our Groundless Conspiracys have more factual information than any government orchistrated document or proof they have ever provided.
We are not Anti Government We are Pro Government for the people by the people and of the people.
We stand for smaller government and the CONSTITUTION. So it sounds like to the SPLC is for the NEW WORLD ORDER
on March 7th, 2010 at 5:11 pm
Scott & Sean,
Gee! I wish I could agree with you. However, the facts are, over a decade now, patriot/militia groups have been using the “new world order/concentration camp” scenarios that play on people fears, emotions and pocket books.
How much money have you spent on books, CD’s, membership fees ? From my understanding of this entire ‘scheme,’ people have been told to buy coins, invest in off-shore banks/investments…..But anyway, have you attempted to look into how much profits are made off of ordinary people who are looking for what ‘may not exist.’
Yes, people don’t want to pay taxes, fully payoff their mortgages/cars – sovereign citizens. And tend to believe in this ‘world coming to an end – new world order.’
Please try looking into how long this “new world order/concentration camp” conspiracy has been going on here in the U.S. This is nothing new. I just hope you haven’t spent a lot of money thinking likewise!
on March 7th, 2010 at 7:16 pm
I have to agree with Sean’s comment.
I am part of We Are Change. What is so wrong with trying to End The Fed? And wake the sleeping masses to the REAL facts about how things really work. They are a bunch of crooks and there is nothing Federal what so ever about them.
We live in a giant Ponzi scheme and most people are still oblivious to the planned credit/debt scheme that has resulted in the worst economic times ever. Especially in the grand ole USA. If we are a bunch of “delusional” conspiracy theorists I will eat my hat and yours. I have personally been to a F.E.M.A. camp and got inside info from a private security guard that works the gate checking supply trucks in. I bated him, I never said the words FEMA. I just asked him some questions, like when do you think they intend to open this facility being as it has tripled in size in the last 6 months. He said you mean the FEMA CAMP???? Duh..yes. He said how do you know about it. I said man it’s all over the internet. He was like,REALLY?
I said yes really. He then told me the commander for FEMA had been there 2 weeks before doing an inspection. This was about 4 months ago. I went by there yesterday,as it’s on my way to a town I frequently go to and is visible from a certain highway. This time I had a great camera with incredible zoom capabilities.I will be posting these pics up on myspace and various groups..
People need to know they are REAL! Not all conspiracy truthers are “nutters” planning to shoot someone.
But I can assure all parties concerned that when the time comes we will not go anywhere without a FIGHT!
Keep em locked and loaded.
NO NEW WORLD ORDER. We stop them by exposure and NONCOMPLIANCE!
Yes I am a proud patriot. And happy to have made your list! Carry on and watch, the shows not over…
on March 7th, 2010 at 7:16 pm
And here’s another tidbit of hate for you to consider: Bill Maher blurted out on his worthless HBO show about this shooting; Maher said he wished that this shooter would have shot Glenn Beck instead. It’s about time that the SPLC started condemning garbage like this.
on March 7th, 2010 at 9:58 pm
Actually it was George Bush 41 that was for the New World Order.
on March 8th, 2010 at 3:29 am
Anti-government? New World Order? Big Government? Home-schooling(and the textbooks that are proven to be anti-science and do not mention Darwin or evolution)? Sounds pretty darn Republican/Right Wing to me!
on March 8th, 2010 at 10:43 am
Snorlax said,
on March 6th, 2010 at 7:14 am
“Pentagon Shooter: Political Criminal or Just Plain Crazy?”
Psychotic pothead.
———–
You certainly could be right. But I don’t think this would deter me from support for decriminalization of petty drug offenses. Perhaps if he had gotten treatment for substance abuse, his deeper psychosis would have been identified. Cetainly putting him in jail for smoking pot would have made matters worse, in my view. Also I think there’s a danger of equating substance abuse with the deeper issues going on here. Are we at a point in human development that we can begin to look at the root causes of this level of disgruntlement? Is there any way to do anything about it (sustainably), or must we accept that in our society there will be sprinkled some sociopaths no matter what? I don’t have the answers, by the way, just asking the question.
For what it’s worth I believe we can deal effectively with hate and intolerance through education and social awareness, which is why I support SPLC. But I don’t know what we can do about one individual in many millions who becomes anti-social for reasons we really don’t understand besides evidence and circumstance. I like to think there is a way to stem these actions at the roots.
Is that wishful thinking?
on March 8th, 2010 at 12:12 pm
CM,
I am thinking David’s reason for this is, he got caught up – in reference to your statement of he is not gaining friends, while losing friends.
IMO, there are a lot of people, such as patriots, wanting sovereignty – such as “sovereign citizens.” Many patriot group members love the fact of not paying sales taxes while shopping, to saying they can only stand before tribal courts (immune to prosecution state/federal courts.) In short gaming the system. Yet, some medically & federally recognized members are being dropped/delisted/disenrolled/displaced -
on March 8th, 2010 at 12:23 pm
Lia,
You may have seen some “FEMA Camp” buildings. But, have you thought that maybe, just maybe, people are being misled into thinking they are “NWO” buildings? Have you thought that just maybe, it is for people that believe in these conspiracies, and it is actually meant as bunkers to save the believers from the “big bad government.” Or maybe, for good reason, they are to protect us from people like you. Seriously, people who are paranoid can be more dangerous than your average criminal. Just sayin’ sounds like one more cult in the making. Jim Jones took his followers to another country – Guyana, we’re talking hundreds of people.
on March 8th, 2010 at 2:32 pm
I am a member of the SPLC leadership council. I have supported the SPLC for decades. The SPLC does valuable work. However, I would like to caution the SPLC to be careful to distinguish between organizations and web sites that are highly critical of the government and those that really promote or incite violence and hate. I am specifically concerned with what is generally called the 9/11 truth movement. I am also a member of Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth, ae911truth.org. This is a professional organization that now includes over 1000 credentialled architects and engineers who are putting their professional reputations on the line to call for a new investigation into the events of 9/11. Having studied the facts for years, I am convinced that these experts are correct in saying that the three steel-frame buildings that collapsed on that day, the Twin Towers and World Trade Center 7, must have been demolished with high explosives. The evidence is really overwhelming. Please check out our web site and see for yourselves. These facts were covered up by the Bush administration for seven years and the cover-up continues under the Obama adminstration. Architects and Engineers for 9/11 truth is in no way a hate group nor are we anti-American. We are indeed patriots, in the best sense of the word. We come from all over the political spectrum, from socialists to libertarians. We are united not be a political ideology but by scientifically demostrable facts. We do believe that our government is being controlled by criminals who have subverted our Constitution. Our methods are entirely peaceful, and consists in the peaceful dissemination of scientific truth. In fact, we believe 9/11 was engineered by these criminals as a way of creating public Islamophobia, or racist hatred of Muslims – a form of anti-Semitism (Arabs are also Semitic) as a pretext for the invasion of Iraq and endless wars of aggression against Muslim countries, to control their resources in the global geopolitical game. We are not the least bit anti-Semitic or racist in any other way.
However, the same criminals who engineered 9/11 are also attempting to smear the 9/11 truth movement as anti-Semitic. They use agents provacateurs like Eric Hufschmid for this purpose. You have correctly listed his website, http://www.erichufschmid.net/ as a hate site, since it is virulently anti-Semitic.
You also list the Alex Jones prisonplanet.com website as a hate sight. I do not think this is fair. Jones is a strident anti-government critic but he has always opposed any sort of violent activity and I do not find any hint of racism in his broadcasts.
on March 8th, 2010 at 4:05 pm
Don’t get me wrong, I have nothing against pot.
I went to college. 8^)
I don’t think psychotic people should smoke pot though. Pot is a psychoactive drug and can make you paranoid, so it is not for people who are already having difficulty with reality.
I wouldn’t recommend alcohol for someone with his condition either. It mixes poorly with the kind of pills this guy should have been taking.
on March 8th, 2010 at 4:10 pm
“…I don’t know what we can do about one individual in many millions who becomes anti-social for reasons we really don’t understand…”
I think the problem is that we dismantled the safety net a long time ago. Psychotic people are not getting treatment and are going off the deep end.
The latest Colorado school shooting was a guy who was off his meds because he was indigent and couldn’t even get a doctor to see him.
This Pentagon guy was not indigent but he needed help and didn’t get it. The safety net doesn’t work anymore.
on March 8th, 2010 at 7:16 pm
Skinny Minni, get real, this is not about cults. Wake up to the truth.
I am no part of any groups or cults. I am just an indepent free thinking person that can analyze information and investigate real facts and hsitory
And I am a peaceful person with no desire to use what I have learned about the New World Order agenda in a violent way. In fact if you really look into these groups that this website and the rest of the main stream media chooses to demonize like, WeAreChange.org or OathKeepers, you will see that these organizations are peaceful and promote peaceful disent and only want truth.
Millions of people around the world ar waking up to what’s really happening in the world and you can choose to ignore it and just accept what “they” tell you or you can educate yourself to the truth.
This website is just another tool for the New World Order to brainwash people into believing that anyone who questions anything, is a terrorist.
People need to wake up! We are being controlled by a handful of Global Elite Bankers whose soul purpose is to destroy all sovereign nations, including the United States in favor of a One World Tyrannical Government. Just follow the money trail. Search history. See for yourself.
Fact is the IRS is not a government agency, much like the Federal Reserve. Its’ an independent agency installed by the elite to control people by means of taxes, furthering the deliberate theft our God given liberties.
Investigate the facts…. Don’t believe the state controlled media of Fox News, CNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS, etc… All these so called news outlets are controlled and regulated by the same owners. It’s ALL propaganda designed to enslave the masses and cause even more strife and division with their false “left” vs. “right” parydime.
If you want real news, go to independent news outlets who are not edited and filtered by corporations.
Wake UP! The New World Order’s plan to create a One World Government System is fast approaching. Don’t take my word for it, do your own independent research today!
Search on Youtube. Type in ENDGAME: Blueprint For Global Enslavement. 9/11: Press For Truth, Loose Change, The Obama Deception, FEMA Camps, Fall of the Republic: Presidency of Barack Obama., Monopoly Men, AMERICA: From Freedom to Fascism.
Also go to Infowars.com or WeAreChange.org. Get educated.
There are literally 1,000’s of fact filled documentaries that were made to inform and wake people up to the NWO.
Everything you need to know is Online. That is why the Elite are trying to regulate and control the Internet, because “They” know that this is the only real source for citizens to get facts about their agenda.
Think I’m crazy? Well thats easy to say. ” Oh this guy is Nuts” I’m not going to listen to this guy!
Well, that’s the easy way out… Just excuse what I say and dismiss it as “conspiracy”.
Well, its NOT Conspiracy, It’s FACTS.
I used to be in the dark too and denied, denied, denied until I started to investigate everything myself and I woke up to the madness in this world.
on March 8th, 2010 at 11:28 pm
Beholder,
I have been looking into why people are falling for this NWO crap. What I’ve found is Pat Robertson wrote a book in 1991 called New World Order. I’ve also found that when the economy goes a little bit different than what some people are expecting, it’s a great recruitment tool, as well as a money maker. I BELIEVE these people are selling and capitalizing on fear. People can be governed as well as scammed with fear much easier than someone who’s not fearful.
Psychiatrists are seeing more people nowadays due to fear of this NWO – more people are taking anti-depressants, anti-psychotic drugs. Maybe these are the new guinea pigs!!!
People don’t want to pay taxes, as well as trying to hide/stash money – yet, the smooth talkers come in and get the money they were trying to protect. Maybe they should refer to that one part of the bible “a fool and his money shall soon part.”
It’s like snap, maybe I should get in on the ground floor – just kidding! But, I just can’t see these people trading world wide accepted currencies for currencies that can only be used in bartering, or may be ‘deemed’ worthless. I can’t see purchasing bumper stickers, jackets, caps, books, and other junk that’s making the sellers rich. But that’s me!
There’s been, throughout the years, different businesses that target this type of audience, and believe me, they have made millions of dollars. Just google patriot/militia/sovereign citizen groups. Then google the very wealthy Pat Robertson.
It’s just breaks my heart that people keep falling for the same thing. And it’s scary, that, yes, they live among us. It’s my opinion, that after some of these unsuspecting followers find out they are not getting what they sought/thought, they snap – and the people that sucker these people go on without a thought of who they have hurt.
on March 9th, 2010 at 2:56 am
The guy may very well be insane, but the problem is that groups which propagate conspiracy theories expound a narrative in which there is never any justice, where the bad guys always win and everything happens by design. Get a guy who has nothing to lose, and is already unbalanced, and he might decide to go out in a blaze of glory like James von Brunn.
on March 9th, 2010 at 10:05 am
Skinny, I have a theory that this NWO conspiracy draws popularity from a bizarre need of Americans to feel like victims of national oppression- as if they are occupied. Think about it- the US has been invading weaker nations, bombing them, overthrowing their government, and so on. Little by little evidence of this occasionally pops up in the mainstream media. Americans don’t want to feel like bullies, so these fantasies let them think that they have something to fear in regards to their national sovereignty, threats coming from other countries imposing their will on th US. In reality, other countries have had much more to worry about from the US.
For the foreseeable future, the US will not relinquish any sovereignty so long as it has the military and economic power to impose its will on other nations. This situation will most likely last for a long time as it is unlikely that the nation would face a catastophe large enough to deprive the US of those capabilities so quickly. Even after that it would be some time before the US might consider entering into some EU-style confederation along with some other dominant country or countries. Still, I don’t see something like this happening until the US perhaps gets involved in a third war, and suffers a decicive military defeat. And again,that is highly unlikely in the next 5-10 years.
on March 9th, 2010 at 12:00 pm
@Ruslan:
Please go to the web site of Architects and Engineers for 9/11 truth and get informed before engaging in any more fact-free theorizing. That’s ae911truth.org, where over 1000 architects and engineers have joined to call for an honest investigation into 9/11. The evidence they present for controlled demolition of the World Trade Center buildings is overwhelming. Once you have appraised yourself of the facts, I think your theories will change considerably.
on March 9th, 2010 at 2:14 pm
Actually all you need to do is look at a controlled demolition, and then the towers collapsing, to see that they are clearly different. I am not too impressed by your “1000 architects and engineers”, since A. far more say otherwise, and B. has anyone even checked the credentials of those engineers and architects- or checked their research?
on March 9th, 2010 at 2:23 pm
Damn…that was easy:
http://www.ae911truth.info
on March 9th, 2010 at 2:23 pm
When I brought up what Tony talked about — 911 and bringing down WTC 7 with controlled explosives — some people here didn’t seem to appreciate it. I don’t mind having my views questioned, and I am not part of Tony’s group, nor do I think it’s necessarily a conspiracy against Muslims, but I do think it’s worth looking into seriously and I don’t think it makes me a nut. I am not a conspiracy theorist in general, but there is legitimate concern over what happened on 911 and it did become — under false pretenses — the casus belli for Iraq. Shouldn’t we be as critical of the government as we are fringe groups who are also critical of the government? Hate takes many forms, as does ignorance. All I am saying is asking questions does not make a hate group — and in that point I am in full agreement with Tony. The rest he will have to convince me of, but I will keep an open mind.
on March 9th, 2010 at 2:25 pm
skinnyminny, good points all. thanks for saying it.
on March 9th, 2010 at 2:26 pm
Ruslan I think what you are talking about is fear that the rooster is coming home to roost.
on March 9th, 2010 at 2:35 pm
Andre,
Thanks, but no thanks for the invitation. My family taught me, “just because everyone else is doing it, doesn’t make it right!” Besides, there’s no way I will get involved with people who screams “false flag,” and talks of violence, degrading minorities – yes, I’ve seen the language about Blacks and Latinos on some of the sites, and there’s definitely no way I will associate with people who talks about the President the way they do, and the things they’d like to do to our President.
And lastly, there’s no way I will associate with people not liking to follow the law – example, trying to game the system, not paying taxes, in other words, want to rebel.
To Ruslan,
I see what you are saying! However, I have a different view! I believe that most Americans like to see violence against others – example, people wanted so much to go to war against Iraq, the Hate groups that likes to inflict violence upon minorities….Yet, any mention of Muslims – they clam up and use the victimization card that they are scared. Any mention of Blacks, and they always refer to them as violent, dumb and weak.
I believe the only victim card they are playing now is a recruitment tool, to say in the least, that they are losing rights (assumably what’s rightfully theirs) such as employment, etc due to minorities and/or immigration. And IMO, they are blaming the President for something that happened before he came to office. It doesn’t matter if our society is an “instant gratification type society,” blame should always go where it’s appropriate.
on March 9th, 2010 at 2:56 pm
For anyone seeking an interesting read on global governance (that’s what we call international relations because Americans have a bugaboo about the term), I recently read a very interesting book.
It’s called The Great Experiment by Strobe Talbott of the Brookings Institution and dep Secretary of State under Clinton — also a long time journalist. Anyway he talks about Bush 41 as an internationalist, his use of the term NWO, and why global political structures are as controversial as they are.
His argument is among other things that NWO is a term for a post- Cold War alternative to “containment”, the doctrine of U.S. foreign policy during four decades. Bush and Scowcroft borrowed the term to describe a new partnership with Russia. Woodrow Wilson’s contemporaries used that term for his 14 points and League of Nations hopes. The Nazis also had a similar term Weltherrschaft.
More recently NWO has been used in connection with the UN and the Breton Woods system. Gorbechev used the term in 1988. Bush 41 first used it in 1990 at the UN to rally support for American-led liberation of Kuwait, and would use the same term repeatedly in the following months. Moderates in his party liked the term, and far rights hated it — most notably NC Rep David Funderburk,who warned that the American and Russian governments were converging through the UN. Bush dropped the term as infighting among Republicans intensified in the runup to the 1992 election, and it was still believed the Republicans would win.
Bear in mind (I was in then USSR around this time by the way) in 1991 there were a lot of similar naysayers against Gorbachev’s reforms of the Soviet system. Does anyone remember the coup attempt against Gorbachev just three weeks after Bush 41 defended the policies of an American style federalism for the Ukraine, that wanted to separate? That putsch led the way for Yelstin to lead a counter-coup, become leader and the reforms to become irreversible. The red flag came down, the tricolor went up.
My take on all of this is that hardliners don’t like change. The book is great by the way, I’m surprised it doesn’t get quoted more than it does.
on March 9th, 2010 at 4:41 pm
There was a term for global government for over a thousand years. It was called “Christendom”.
on March 9th, 2010 at 6:11 pm
“For anyone seeking an interesting read on global governance (that’s what we call international relations because Americans have a bugaboo about the term),”
Beholder:
Are you kidding?
The phrase “international relations” means relations BETWEEN (inter) national (nations.)
Which are sovereign, BTW.
Global governance designates regulations intended for the global scale and is headed towards a single entity. These “regulations” destroy sovereignty and are not by the consent of the governed.
Two VERY different concepts.
And, it’s not a “bugaboo.”
We have the right to govern ourselves as a sovereign nation.
“Global Governance” is illegitimate and unconstitutional.
on March 9th, 2010 at 7:12 pm
Beholder,
Glad you’re taking the time to at least look into the use of the term “NWO.”
BTW, just because there are people out there saying that metal frames could not have melted….the way I look at it, steel/metal can do lots of things when it’s old. Example, you have old metal/steel pipes – they can corrode, crack and crumble, or at least rust and turn to a dust.
During the last administration, I saw lots of people that went with what other’s had to say – because the other people was smarter, or knew more about something than they did. Let’s use the example of the mortgages – people didn’t understand what they were signing, but, the people selling it – assured their customers they had nothing to worry about!
Well, guess what, I don’t believe everything I hear. Sometimes, for example, you’ll have doctors saying you need surgery or you’ll be on medication for the rest of your life – however, sometimes this proves to be wrong. Sometimes all it takes is less stress, change of diet and lifestyle.
So again, for me, I’m not interested in joining their cause. BTW, love your last statement – It was called “christendom.” However, that, and the fact that there are a lot of scams out there, especially these offshore privacy/seminars/home based businesses…In fact, it’s alleged that a lot are registered in Panama, some have been shutdown by FTC/SEC….and you wouldn’t believe who ran these outfits!
on March 9th, 2010 at 9:30 pm
@beholder
You are a most reasonable and unprejudiced person. This is what SPLC is all about. It is also what true science is all about: seeing things objectively, without prejudice or preconception. Therefore I believe that you will be persuaded that what Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth is saying is indeed true if you will just go to our web site, ae911truth.org and take a little time to inform yourself of the scientific facts clearly presented there by highly qualified architects, engineers and scientists.
On the subject of the NWO, what I heard Bush 41 say after the Soviet Union collapsed is that there was now a “New World Order”, namely, that “what we say goes”. Bush was decaring that “we” are now the world hegemon.
Who did he mean by “we”? I would describe it as Anglo-American imperialism.
With the Soviet Union gone, the Defense Department and our military contrators needed a new enemy, and one was immediately chosen: “Islamic terrorism”. The United States has been engendering and covertly supporting Islamic terrorism ever since as a pretext for interventions in Muslim countries, endless wars, gigantic military budgets and of course control of oil. 9/11 was just the culmination of that policy – so far that is, since I believe we are in imminent danger of another such false flag attack.
But before we discuss the politics of it, you just have to look at the scientific facts. In addition to ae911truth.org, perhaps this link would interest you. It is a paper published by Niels Harrit, a chemistry professor and explosives expert at the Niels Bohr institute of the University of Copenhagen, Stephen Jones, professor emeritus of Physics at Brigham Young, and six other scientists detailing the discovery of large amounts of nanothermite, a high-tech explosive, in the dust remaining from the collapse of the WTC buildings. This is a peer-reviewed paper in physical chemistry which has never been refuted, nor do I think it can be, because the science is so simple and clear.
on March 10th, 2010 at 1:49 am
“It’s hard to say, based on the early reports coming out today, just what motivated the man who tried to murder several Pentagon police officers yesterday but was killed himself instead.”
He was delusional and his political affiliation is irrelevant. He would have done what he did if he were fighting to save baby Harp seals.
“That last statement could have come straight from the mouths of activists in the conspiracy-minded “Patriot” movement,”
You are implying that he was motivated by the “Patriot Movement”.
“endorses the idea, also originating largely on the left, that the government was behind the 9/11 attacks in New York.”
“He was also a man with a strong bent toward conspiracy theories about events ranging from
9/11 . . . . . .
You are implying that he was motivated by the “911 Truth Movement”.
This is a frontal attack on the first amendment. Without the unfettered right to question and expose government wrongdoing, we have tyranny. You may not agree with the Truth Movement or the Oath Keepers but to take away or impair our right to say what we think will result in the loss of your own right to do the same.
What happened to: I may not agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it?
Americans have been brainwashed into associating “conspiracy theory” with “nut job” while at the same time being sold the nuttiest conspiracy theory of them all:
“19 crazy guys, headed by Osama bin Laden, got by the most sophisticated military in the world and flew a hijacked plane into their “defenseless” headquarters in the nation’s Capital.”
Josef Goebbles was so right.
“Conspiracy theorist” has become a pejorative when in fact conspiracies are the rule in politics, not the exception. From Cesar to Cambodia to Central America, any coup de grâce is a conspiracy. Vote rigging is a conspiracy. Any crime committed by two or more people is a conspiracy by definition.
The FBI has not charged Osama bin Laden with 9/11 because there is no hard evidence that he was involved. That is just a theory. He has been charged with “conspiracy” to kill Americans outside the U.S.
Go to fbi dot gov and see for yourself.
The mass media hysteria as of late is trying to associate the Truth Movement with crazy people like Mr. Bedell and Ahmadinejad is a last ditch effort to silence dissent. The Oath Keepers have been associated with white supremacist groups in an attempt to smear them. Nothing could be further from the truth. Google the Oath Keepers and see for yourself.
For what it’s worth:
Three skyscrapers were destroyed on 9/11. The third was WTC 7, a 47 story building that went down at 5:20 PM. The NIST final report on WTC 7 says that normal office fires caused the collapse of a single column [one of 81 columns] and that led to the progressive total collapse, in about 15 seconds.
At a Tech briefing on 8-26-08, lead investigator for NIST, Shyam Sunder, stated:
“a free fall time would be an object that has no structural components below it . . . there was structural resistance that was provided in this particular case. And you had a sequence of structural failures that had to take place. Everything was not instantaneous.”
In other words, the NIST progressive collapse hypothesis does not include a period of free fall acceleration because there is always structural resistance.
In the NIST final report on World Trade Center 7, Nov. 2008 it states:
NCSTAR 1A pg 45 [pdf pg 87]
In Stage 2, the north face descended at gravitational acceleration, as the buckled columns provided negligible* support to the upper portion of the north face. This free fall drop continued for approximately 8 stories or 32.0 m (105 ft)
*Negligible: too small to be worth considering
NCSTAR 1-9 Vol.1 pg 588 [pdf pg 250]
the entire building above the buckled-column region moved downward as a single unit
A building cannot fall at free fall acceleration and crush structural steel at the same time.
The only way to get a building to fall at free fall acceleration is to remove all the supporting structure simultaneously with explosives.
This video shows the free fall acceleration analysis by David Chandler and NIST
NIST Finally Admits Freefall part III (Youtube)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vz43hcKYBm4
on March 10th, 2010 at 9:03 am
Yet it is clear that explosives weren’t used. Also, how do you explain the debris which falls faster than the rest of the structure, as is clear in the videos? Then these must be falling at faster than free fall speed some how.
on March 10th, 2010 at 10:52 am
I agree with the vast majority of Americans, who insist that a new 9/11 investigation is in order, and that Mark Potok tendentiously smeared (hate speech) the 9/11 truth movement
on March 10th, 2010 at 11:40 am
Jack said,
on March 9th, 2010 at 6:11 pm
“For anyone seeking an interesting read on global governance (that’s what we call international relations because Americans have a bugaboo about the term),”
Beholder:
Are you kidding?
The phrase “international relations” means relations BETWEEN (inter) national (nations.)
Which are sovereign, BTW.
——————
Jack, perhaps I was not clear. What the rest of the world calls global governance we call international relations or global affairs or some other such term.
London School of Economics:
http://www.lse.ac.uk/Depts/global/
Centre for International Governance Innovation:
http://www.cigionline.org/
World Economic Forum:
http://www.weforum.org/en/init...../index.htm
Bucerius Summer School on Global Governance
http://www.bucerius-summer-school.de/h/
Given that these are all mainstream, respected and scholarly entities, why is it that you suppose there is no reference to “global governance” on the US State Department website, and that reference to the term in curricula in the US is rare to the point of almost not existing? Do you truly believe the discusssion on global governance is materially different than “global affairs”, “international relations” or a host of other terms we prefer in the United States? I am merely pointing out the ignorance of Americans, and a certain kind of intransigence toward schools of thought. Thank you for substantiating my commentary.
on March 10th, 2010 at 12:07 pm
Tony I am familiar with some of the arguments you mention about controlled explosives. I am also convinced that the Bush 43 administration made lying to the American people a cornerstone of its policies. However, where I am most skeptical is deducing from the possibility that WTC was brought down by explosives, that somehow the entire 911 attack was orchestrated or allowed to happen as a casus bellus.
Occam’s razor applies here: the simplest solution is most likely to be the correct one. Could not WTC 7 have been brought down simply A) to avoid the expense of later demoltion as the building would surely be condemned, or B) to limit the possibility of more loss of life by accident or continued attacks? And if we test the idea that WTC towers were brought down by explosives, could that not have been an act of mercy to the people trapped inside and doomed to burn alive? Could it not have been a way to keep them from toppling over and causing more destruction?
As I’ve said before I think the Pennsylvania plane was shot down by fighter escorts to prevent it from hitting the White House. That’s a tough call — certainly there was no way to save those people, and bringing down the plane over a field instead of DC would have prevented an even greater loss of life and national heritage. But from that I cannot reasonably deduce that 911 was planned, orchestrated, or even allowed to happen by the Bush 43 administration.
One thing however is very clear. The Iraq invasion was planned since 1981, originally proposed by Wolfowitz under Reagan as a means to secure natural resources (oil) in the Middle East and to set up a base in a region where in 1979 the US Embassy in Iran was stormed and our country humiliated. The strategy was laid out in 1981 and it was Bush 43′s intent to carry it out no matter what — he even told a group of loyal senators that he intended to take out Saddam by invasion with or without WMD in Iraq. So I do think there is validity in questioning the role of 911 in shaping foreign policy and the Fourth World War currently (WWIII was the Cold War). I’m just not inclined to believe it was more than what it seemed — an act of terror by disaffected Asians, fed up with corruption and inefficiencies in their own countries, seeing themselves the losers in the New World Order, and seeking an ideological enemy and some kind of purity in 14th Century codes of moral conduct.
After all why did we need 911 to carry out the Iraq invasion. The adminstration never successfully argued any link at all, even the one shadowy report of an al Qaeda operative meeting with Saddam’s people. It was all a bunch of lies, and lies were sufficient to invade. Even now, the lies continue as Rove etc try to paint the invasion as a correct act because Saddam was a bad guy, not because of the original justification about links to terror, imminent threat to Americans, and so on. Yeah, he was a monster who probably deserved to be strung up from a lamp post by piano wire, but there are a lot of bad guys out there and we’re not invading all of them.
So what gives? Its really very simple. One, the oil, and two, a permanent air base in the Middle East.
on March 10th, 2010 at 1:56 pm
Again, just because architects and engineers allege this conspiracy doesn’t make it so! Throughout my lifetime, scientists, other experts say things to make a name for themselves, only to later be proven wrong by yet another.
What I do know, construction contractors have a history of trying to save money, thereby, using cheap materials – does the last bridge that collapsed ring a bell? Cheap materials and faulty construction!
Then you have the meat industry, for years it was, you need red meat for your diets. Then “mad cow” disease came along, yet, the meat industry continue to make claims their product is safe!
Here, again, just because people are saying it’s so, doesn’t make it so. I blame the big mega-churches for all this madness. I remember years ago, I called a certain mega-church prayer line, instead of listening to my concerns, I heard the other end aggressively and harshly yelling “you’re a child of satan!” So, with churches ability to prey on the weak and further beat them down mentally, this is what happens in society. BTW, I am now agnostic! I don’t play the game of “follow the leader,” with all of these type groups and organizations.
on March 10th, 2010 at 3:28 pm
Ruslan,
You are referring to the Trade Towers. My post is about World Trade Center building 7, the third skyscraper to be destroyed on 9/11. Most people don’t remember WTC 7 because it has not been shown again on TV except for a 5 second blip in a History Channel special.
The link I posted is no longer good so here is a new link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=related
Please take a few minutes and view this video. If you have any questions, feel free to ask.
Cheis
on March 10th, 2010 at 3:40 pm
we all know who the real devil is, don’t we skinnyminny?
on March 10th, 2010 at 4:24 pm
Beholder:
Relationships between sovereign nations are NOT the same thing as “global governance.”
“I am merely pointing out the ignorance of Americans,”
They are not ignorant, they understand what “global governance” means.
“and a certain kind of intransigence toward schools of thought.”
It is a belief that we have the right to govern ourselves and are a sovereign nation.
“Thank you for substantiating my commentary.”
I have substantiated nothing.
Americans that believe in a free republic governed by themselves do NOT WANT any of the garbage you’re cooking.
You are very good at misleading, misdirection and using word games to belittle Americans that disagree with you.
However, you showed your true level of genius here by writing like one of these 9/11 truth nuts and claiming flight 93 was shot down.
Now that we see what kind of craziness you subscribe to we have no reason to argue you with you anymore.
on March 10th, 2010 at 6:13 pm
Beholder,
What I don’t understand, these groups out there are hypocrites, and paranoids – one the one hand they proudly embrace their Americanism, then on the other hand they the proudly embrace their Nazism by their “everything is German,” meaning everything Hitler, from flags to books and clothing!
Yet, anyone else in this country that display their country’s flag – they yell, “Go back to so-and-so, this is America.”
Wait a minute! They bring their German beliefs to America, but anyone else can’t bring their beliefs to America? Question and answer, please!!! Is this America or Germany?
They complain that immigrants are costing tax-payers dollars, and they want small government – yet, they don’t see the tax-payer dollars everyone spends on them. How much does it costs for the cleanup, fire and police services when they snap?
Ah, I give up! I’m not a psychiatrist, and I don’t get paid to look into the minds of these type of people!
on March 10th, 2010 at 10:29 pm
Jack,
I hate to break it to you buddy, but sovereignty is one of the first concepts you look at in any international relations or global governance program. While it may seem very clear to you, the reason why people study these things is because true knowlege is quite complex — there are contradictions and grey areas. The comforting certainty you have about sovereignty as a concept shows that you really don’t understand it. I have said it before — the Treaty of Westphalia, which established geographic borders for states in Europe for the first time, was more about projecting hegemony outward than protecting what you call sovereignty. If you look deeper into this question you may find that your ideals are a poor reflection of material reality, as Marx would phrase it. You have read Marx, haven’t you?
on March 11th, 2010 at 9:38 am
On the Sept. 16, 2001, edition of NBC’s “Meet the Press,” Vice President Dick Cheney, while not addressing Flight 93 specifically, spoke clearly to the administration’s clear policy regarding shooting down hijacked jets.
Vice President Cheney: “Well, the ? I suppose the toughest decision was this question of whether or not we would intercept incoming commercial aircraft.”
NBC’s Tim Russert: “And you decided?”
Cheney: “We decided to do it. We’d, in effect, put a flying combat air patrol up over the city; F-16s with an AWACS, which is an airborne radar system, and tanker support so they could stay up a long time …
“It doesn’t do any good to put up a combat air patrol if you don’t give them instructions to act, if, in fact, they feel it’s appropriate.”
Russert: “So if the United States government became aware that a hijacked commercial airline[r] was destined for the White House or the Capitol, we would take the plane down?”
Cheney: “Yes. The president made the decision … that if the plane would not divert … as a last resort, our pilots were authorized to take them out. Now, people say, you know, that’s a horrendous decision to make. Well, it is. You’ve got an airplane full of American citizens, civilians, captured by … terrorists, headed and are you going to, in fact, shoot it down, obviously, and kill all those Americans on board?
“… It’s a presidential-level decision, and the president made, I think, exactly the right call in this case, to say, I wished we’d had combat air patrol up over New York.’”
on March 11th, 2010 at 12:16 pm
Skinny I think one explanation for the root cause of hatred is the human condition. In ourselves we don’t seem to have an everlasting spring of new, fresh, dynamic ideas and virutes. Ask yourself if this is true, don’t take my word for it. Life is hard, we feel pain, anger and resentment. From that we react, and this simulates something fresh and dynamic and good. The amount of anger and hate people have can be constantly renewed and revived, with little effort whatsoever. It is not difficult to hate. It is difficult to be tolerant and find peace.
on March 11th, 2010 at 1:18 pm
What a good laugh.
Sovereignty is not a difficult concept to understand, unless you are challenged.
Read Marx? Of course, it is called “Know they Enemy.”
But you believe in crazy stuff like the gov shot down flight 93 so I just don’t care anymore.
You are lost and the only person who can fix it is yourself.
on March 11th, 2010 at 2:02 pm
There is a wealth of conspiracy theories being pushed by people like Beck and Alex Jones on YouTube and Faux News – FEMA concentration camps, FEMA coffins, Obama being a “muslin”, Birthers, Illuminati. The Council for National Policy is behind the picking of Palin and the formation of the Tea Party movement. The Patriot militia and Joel’s army are offshoots from the same group of deludeds. The fundamentalists believe these people without question and the mentally unstable act on it.
Stealth and discrediting the opposition are the main weapons of the religious hard right and they have their believers terrified, waiting for Armmagedon when the “forces of evil” (with Obama, the antichrist at their head) attack the good Christians, about the same time Jesus comes back.
on March 11th, 2010 at 2:18 pm
FEMA coffins/ camps
What’s out in that field are grave liners. The flat lid goes in the hole first, the casket goes in and the tub part is inverted over it and glued down. It’s to keep water out. Most cemeteries require the use of a vault. You don’t see them at the funeral because it ‘s done after the service.
The property on Lions Club Road in Madison, Georgia is leased by Vantage
Products, the company that makes the vaults. http://www.vantageproducts.com
As far as the FEMA camps, on another blog, a poster wrote that had taken the time to investigate seven so-called camps.
“5? are Forts. All 5 are “open posts” that lack so much as a fence along much (in some cases ALL) of their borders. One has no permanent buildings. Another is a National Guard training reservation – not a Federal facility at all.
1 is a prison – a STATE prison.
1 is a large Army storage facility – with just a couple very small buildings – shacks, basically, and a low fence – but only where the road abuts the facility.
1 is empty wilderness – seriously. Rolling hills filled with undeveloped dirt and trees for as far? as the eye can see. I stopped investigating after that. “
on March 11th, 2010 at 6:09 pm
Jack,
Surgery is not a difficult concept to understand either, but would you allow anyone to operate on you without having studied it?
Sovereignty happens to be one of the most complex subjects in the social sciences. I am glad that you were born with perfect knowledge of it. The same knowledge that enables you to know Marx is the enemy without having ever read his works. Were you also born with innate knowledge of Grotius, Bodin, Hobbes, Rousseau, Morganthau, and many others whose works expose the tremendous complexities of the topic? I’m sure you don’t care, after all who needs to read to know anything?
The one virtue of ignorance is that it makes the world seem like a simple place. It must be nice.
on March 11th, 2010 at 11:05 pm
Jack it’s painfully obvious that you have never read Marx at all. The closest you have probably ever come is to some right-wing pundit’s interpretations based on a few select, distorted quotes.
That being said, there is no evidence that Flight 93 was shot down and based on the words of Cheney in that interview I don’t see anything that suggests it. ‘Intercept’ and shoot down are two different things. But the most important thing is that someone like Cheney is not going to ADMIT to such a thing on national television. This is the problem with such conspiracy theories- we are led to believe that the conspirators are both super-geniuses and complete utter morons at the same time.
on March 12th, 2010 at 8:56 am
Since we cannot know for certainty about Flight 93, may I suggest we look at the rationale for giving the shoot down authorization. Was this or was this not a bad thing? This is a question where values come into play. Clearly if you are on the ground and not in the plane, it is one thing, and if you are in the plane to be shot down, it may be another (though if I am on a pilotless plane aimed at a greater number of civilians, and going to die anyway, I would support interception). By the way Ruslan interception by a military plane over US airspace doesn’t seem to rule out being shot down. I don’t condemn the policy, I merely think it has been poorly explained because it, like many of the doings of the Bush 43 administration, was fraught with moral peril. When our leader fears letting us know the truth because it will get in the way with leading the country, it is time to impeach. Unfortunately, the powerful sway of fear and demogogury held America in thrall, and the worst president of our nation’s history got away with the murder of one million people.
on March 12th, 2010 at 12:05 pm
My last few posts have been censored. I do not know why since they were polite, objective and on topic. I guess it’s just another example of the irrational hatred, fear and prejudice against 9/11 truthers. It’s a shame bad to find it here at an SPLC blog whose objective is supposed to be teaching tolerance.
Tony Wicher
Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth
ae911truth.org
on March 12th, 2010 at 1:05 pm
Tony – “I guess it’s just another example of the irrational hatred, fear and prejudice against 9/11 truthers”
I guess because your “truth” is probably actually conspiracy theory although I must admit that the implosion of building #7, not having been hit by anything, is odd.
on March 12th, 2010 at 1:10 pm
Ah, no Ruslan.
Most of his works are in my library.
Marxism just doesn’t work, no matter how much you propagandize.
on March 12th, 2010 at 1:58 pm
Beholder:
“Unfortunately, the powerful sway of fear and demogogury held America in thrall, and the worst president of our nation’s history got away with the murder of one million people.”
Really? Exactly what one million? You are off on the deep end here. This shows what happens when you believe in mythical conspiracies rather than reality.
And as far as worst president goes, history is going to prove you wrong.
Bush will go down as an average performer.
If you want worst presidents, there are quite a few others worse than him, like Wilson for starters, though that would be a tough call versus Roosevelt.
on March 12th, 2010 at 2:43 pm
And as far as worst president goes, history is going to prove you wrong.
———
Thank you for steering my gaze to untold history of America. I am moved.
I heard Condoleeza Rice say that the first time, and I didn’t buy it then. And now that Karl Rove is saying it I definitely don’t believe it. Lemme carpet bomb your back yard, Jack. History will show it was the right thing to do. Mission accomplished and all that.
America made a radical departure from its former status on what constitutes grounds for war. I think our Founders would have been horrifed at our adventures in the Middle East. How history is supposed to vindicate Bush’s reign of terror is a mystery. Certainly seeing Rove re-write history and now justify taking out Saddam Hussein for being a tyrant merely supports everything that those of us who were opposed to the war were saying all along.
Nobody every questioned Saddam was murdering psychopath. The only question is for all the murdering psychopaths around the world, why did Bush choose that one? The United States put him in power to contain Iran, the same as we fostered Osama bin Laden to “contain” the Soviets. So why? As I said: the oil and the airbase to be within reach of Iran. The rest is simply so much smoke and mirrors. If we needed an airbase in Rwanda we’d have gone there too, it’s that simple.
Armchair jingoists who routed for bloodshed in Iraq are moral poltroons who felt powerless after 9-11 and recovered some of their chest-beating self esteem as a result. But be aware that our country is no longer able to deal with all external threats. At some point we will need to put aside bloodthirsty nationalism in the best interests of our people and humanity at large.
on March 12th, 2010 at 2:43 pm
Matthew said,
“I guess because your “truth” is probably actually conspiracy theory although I must admit that the implosion of building #7, not having been hit by anything, is odd.”
The implosion and free fall of WTC 7 is not “odd”, it is proof of controlled demolition.
Failure to accept this reality is denial.
“OBL and 19 hijackers did it” is a conspiracy theory yet most Americans believe it while calling scientific proof of controlled demolition a conspiracy theory.
on March 12th, 2010 at 2:44 pm
“Really? Exactly what one million? You are off on the deep end here. ”
No, he’s right. The civilian death toll among those in Afghanistan and Iraq totals over 1,000,000. This is why they want us out. We’re killing more of their people than the Taliban.
Quote: “According to a new study, 1.2 million Iraqis have met violent deaths since the 2003 invasion, the highest estimate of war-related fatalities yet. The study was done by the British polling firm ORB, which conducted face-to-face interviews with a sample of over 1,700 Iraqi adults in 15 of Iraq’s 18 provinces. Two provinces — al-Anbar and Karbala — were too dangerous to canvas, and officials in a third, Irbil, didn’t give the researchers a permit to do their work. The study’s margin of error was plus-minus 2.4 percent. “
on March 13th, 2010 at 10:22 am
“Left-wingers for the previous 8 years had been screaming that President Bush was building concentration camps. Stop making that conspiracy sound like an exclusive right-wing property.”
Wrong.
It was the same Alex Jones, NOT those eeeevill librrrrruls, who spread the FEMA rumor during Dubya’s “Reign of Error”.
I know, I heard it. The original rumor was that the FEMA camps were being built by Haliburton under direct supervision of Dick Cheney. Alex Jones said this.
Liberals had nothing to do with it.
This is just another LIE from the right. They love to reinvent history. They believe the Holocaust never happened and blacks were better off under slavery and Jim Crow.
Stop blaming liberals for these whackos.
Stop lying to us.
on March 13th, 2010 at 10:42 am
I’ve visited one of the ORIGINAL detention camps where US citizens were held against their will for no legitimate legal reason.
Camp Amache, Colorado.
From 1942-45, thousands of Japanese American US Citizens were detained there. They were NOT a security risk.
They WERE a minority that conservative nativist groups wanted to rip off and evict from the West Coast.
Amache was one of several camps detaining 100,000 US citizens during the war.
FDR signed the order, but it was definitely a bipartisan effort.
The Japanese-Americans lost a billion (in 1945 dolllars). They were systematically robbed and run out of town. By nativists.
And what about those eeeeevil librrrruls? They helped the Nisei get out of the camps, sent them support, and helped them argue their cases before the Supreme Court.
on March 13th, 2010 at 12:16 pm
Matthew,
OK, that post post got published, at least. OK, let’s see if this one does.
The 9/11 truth movement is a non-violent and non-racist movement that questions the government’s account of 9/11. The SPLC should be careful not to smear it as a hate group. There are two web sites associated with the 9/11 truth movement listed as hate sites in the latest issue of the SPLC report. One of these is erichufschmid.net. I agree with the SPLC about this, since this site is virulently anti-Semitic. I myself am a member of Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth, and we vehemently repudiate this web site. The other site listed is Alex Jones prisonplanet.com. I listen to Jones quite a bit, and though he is stridently anti-government, he opposes all forms of violence, condems anyone who commits violence in the name of 9/11 truth as a provacateur, and I have not heard any suggestion of racism in any form in his broadcasts. Therefore I believe this listing of his site as a hate group is unfair. Jones is rightly upset with the SPLC about this. I am requesting the SPLC to remove prisonplanet.com from their list of hate sites. Unless they do so, I am sorry to say that I will have to withdraw my name from the leadership council.
on March 14th, 2010 at 9:09 am
People as “super -geniuses and complete utter morons at the same time”. ???…Hmmmm…? Let me think. Since humans are essentially little more than suped up beasts,such dualities shouldn’t be that difficult to understand. Our brains are attached to our rears, our fangs and our claws by the nervous system. Frequently, people exhibit claw think, tooth think and butt think. That last rhymes with something…hmmmm??? Just now the human species is sort of like a baby that’s all alone and can’t figure out how to change its own dirty diaper. Yuccch! I think that liberals are actually finding ways to do so. I’m trying myself. Arrrrgggghhhh! Strettcccccchhhh! Fumble! Bitch! Wail! BINGO!!! Evolution is a deadly struggle. Just because we can hide our poot like cats doesn’t mean it’s not still part of reality. Skulls in closets and human instincts. We have a long way to go.
on March 15th, 2010 at 11:05 am
Matthew said,
on March 12th, 2010 at 2:44 pm
“Really? Exactly what one million? You are off on the deep end here. ”
———-
Matthew, maybe he only considers Allied coaltion deaths worth counting, so thinks the death toll of the war was in four digits, not seven. Also to clarify I was talking about the civilian deaths in the aftermath of the chaos unleashed on Iraq by the United States. Most are due to sectarian violence, but this is what we were saying before the war got started: don’t open pandora’s box. This is the worst humanitarian crisis ever caused by the United States. Why do you think we’re hated in Iraq? If ‘liberty” means having 1.2 million people slaughtered so that we can get our hands on the oil and an airbase, I think the Iraqi people would prefer not to have such enduring freedoms forced on them. Don’t even get me started how it was a war by proxy, for and by big corporations.
on March 15th, 2010 at 11:08 am
Quite right Snorlax, and don’t forget the right’s argument that the Dred Scott decision was also not to limit the voting power of the black man in America by turning former slaves from non-humans into fractional entities. It was to prevent the former slaveowners from having too much say in government. Uh…yeah, right.
on March 15th, 2010 at 11:35 am
“America made a radical departure from its former status on what constitutes grounds for war.”
It has been doing that since WWII.
It is one of the reasons our government is no longer legitimate; Congress, (with no authority to do so) turned over its war making powers to the executive branch.
But you avoided your claim about one million.
Again, exactly what one million people did Bush kill as you claim?
on March 15th, 2010 at 2:15 pm
beholder – This is what the underground news tells us: (News you won’t find on Faux or CNN).
Number Of Iraqis Slaughtered In US War And Occupation Of Iraq “1,366,350″
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/
on March 15th, 2010 at 3:37 pm
Wow Jack, you don’t pay attention. I guess Secret Agent Men like you have better things to worry about,such as the secret life of Walter Mitty.
I’m talking about the deaths in Iraq after the United States illegally toppled the sovereign government and threw the country into chaos — bombs, hunger, disease, sectarian violence, etc. You know, the same sovereign government that the United States put into power to block Iran’s hegemony in the Middle East.
on March 15th, 2010 at 4:30 pm
Thanks for the info Matthew, though I take no pleasure in the hecatombs left behind in Bush’s wake. The exact numbers are unknowable, but one can clearly and objectively say they are utterly unacceptable for any civilized person to contemplate.
on March 15th, 2010 at 4:59 pm
Beholder – Bin Laden has been dead since 2001. Bhutto (check out YouTube bhutto interview back to back) stated that he was murdered by the same people she expected would try to kill her. You might be interested in Bin laden’s speech. The interpretation we got wasn’t what was said..
He actually offered Bush a truce. His beef was that his people were being killed and nobody was doing a thing about it. He questioned why when they fought off the Russians, they were heroes, but when they are fighting off the US they are terrorists. I’m not a fan of Bin Laden but I can see his point.
He denied having anything to do with the 9/11 attack but he approved of it.
The sooner we get out of there, the sooner there will be peace, I think.
on March 16th, 2010 at 10:40 am
But if bin Laden has been dead since 2001, where did those audio and video recordings come from? Who authenticated them? The answer is the NSA in both cases. That is incredibly sinister.It shows that our whole national security apparatus is completely out of control, using Islamophobia as personified by this one bogyman, bin Laden, to lead this country into war after war. The president is just a puppet. All otrher political issues pale into insignificance compared with this.
on March 16th, 2010 at 11:56 am
Regarding bin Laden, sure I’ve seen his point all along. Our support for Israel is destabilizing to the middle east, and we are a nation of hypocrites. This is not an apology for him at all. I condemn his actions and his methods, but then again, so do I condemn Bush’s arguments that they are out to get us because they hate freedom. That’s the stupidist argument I have ever heard. It won over half the country, then the other half had to be convinced with reports of WMD and link to al Qaeda in Iraq. Tell me though, if he keeps poking his head up and issuing statements verified to be his voice, with reference to recent events, are you suggesting that his myth is being kept alive by the American government in order to keep the war machine going? Now, Castro, he is dead. Bin Laden, I tend to think he’s hiding in a hole still, maybe very sick of renal disease, but alive.
on March 16th, 2010 at 5:23 pm
I’ve tried two posts so far and it seems that they might have been censored re: Bin Laden’s death, according to Bhutto, and his offer of a truce. Post your email address and I’ll send them on.
on March 17th, 2010 at 9:13 am
Matthew,
Strange, generally the SPLC is tolerant. Even rabid nativists, racists, and white supremacist militias get to speak their piece here. I cannot divulge my email here, sorry. My views here and elsewhere have resulted in threats, from presumably some of the aforementioned groups. Can you try posting an external link? Or was that what was censored?
My guess is that that the SPLC doesn’t want to be perceived as fanning conspiracy dialogue. I am simply curious however, and hope it will be posted.
on March 17th, 2010 at 10:36 am
If bin Laden is alive, he has been protected by the CIA since the late 80′s, they know exactly where he is and can capture or kill him any time they want. I very much doubt he is alive or they would have had him produce a lot more videos by now.
on March 18th, 2010 at 3:26 pm
Beholder, I can agree with you that the war was unconstitutional, Congress handed over it’s war making powers like a puppy treat.
However, I don’t see it as some international “illegal” problem, we are a sovereign state and can make war on any other sovereign state as we see fit.
The one million claim is dubious, a whole lot of those are folks who would have died anyways regardless.
It’s easy to make numbers lie and I have not seen anything yet to convince me of one million dead from our actions.
Either way, I don’t have a problem with us making war on whomever we choose for whatever reason.
I DO have a problem with wars not being declared by congress per our constitution.
As far as posting goes, mine get deleted all the time.
You can never tell why they have been deleted or any pattern of deletion.
I do not want a king and that is exactly what congress has done, turned the exec branch into a king.
It is the reason the founding fathers did not give war making powers to the executive, that was normally the prerogative of kings and we didn’t want one.
This is one of the main reasons our federal government is no longer legitimate.
on March 19th, 2010 at 8:22 am
This was not a war waged by the American people, from which our sovereignty derives. It was waged by corporations and mercenaries in the hire of the United States government.