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	<title>Comments on: Some Dare Call It Conspiracy: The John Birch Society and the SPLC</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2010/08/17/some-dare-call-it-conspiracy-the-john-birch-society-and-splc/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2010/08/17/some-dare-call-it-conspiracy-the-john-birch-society-and-splc/</link>
	<description>Hatewatch is a blog of the Southern Poverty Law Center</description>
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		<title>By: Jessica</title>
		<link>http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2010/08/17/some-dare-call-it-conspiracy-the-john-birch-society-and-splc/comment-page-1/#comment-203448</link>
		<dc:creator>Jessica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Oct 2010 18:05:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.splcenter.org/blog/?p=4592#comment-203448</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t need &quot;proof&quot;, extraordinary or otherwise, of &quot;chemtrails.&quot;

I have seen them, DAILY, flying over my head, spraying in my backyard.  A few years ago, I was a &quot;normal&quot; personal, a stay-at-home mom of three kids battling digestive disease so severe that they couldn&#039;t even digest a raw apple.  

I studied, I poured, I scoured over information that could help them.  One thing led to another, and I soon noticed the chem-planes spraying heavy metal (enzyme inhibitors and fungus) into my backyard.  

18 months into healing protocols, including dietary intervention and heavy metal chelation, and my kids are much improved...however, their digestion regresses severely on heavy spray days.

I don&#039;t need &quot;evidence&quot;.  My life is living proof.  

Jessica</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t need &#8220;proof&#8221;, extraordinary or otherwise, of &#8220;chemtrails.&#8221;</p>
<p>I have seen them, DAILY, flying over my head, spraying in my backyard.  A few years ago, I was a &#8220;normal&#8221; personal, a stay-at-home mom of three kids battling digestive disease so severe that they couldn&#8217;t even digest a raw apple.  </p>
<p>I studied, I poured, I scoured over information that could help them.  One thing led to another, and I soon noticed the chem-planes spraying heavy metal (enzyme inhibitors and fungus) into my backyard.  </p>
<p>18 months into healing protocols, including dietary intervention and heavy metal chelation, and my kids are much improved&#8230;however, their digestion regresses severely on heavy spray days.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t need &#8220;evidence&#8221;.  My life is living proof.  </p>
<p>Jessica</p>
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		<title>By: Calab</title>
		<link>http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2010/08/17/some-dare-call-it-conspiracy-the-john-birch-society-and-splc/comment-page-1/#comment-188802</link>
		<dc:creator>Calab</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Aug 2010 20:34:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.splcenter.org/blog/?p=4592#comment-188802</guid>
		<description>A Wise Quotation By Dene McGriff
Some would blame our current problems on an organized conspiracy. I wish it were so simple. Members of a conspiracy can be rooted out and brought to justice. This system, however, is fueled by something far more dangerous than conspiracy. It is driven not by a small band of men but by a concept that has become accepted as gospel: the idea that all economic growth benefits humankind and that the greater the growth, the more widespread the benefits. This belief also has a corollary: that those people who excel at stoking the fires of economic growth should be exalted and rewarded, while those born at the fringes are available for exploitation. 
The concept is, of course, erroneous. We know that in many countries economic growth benefits only a small portion of the population and may in fact result in increasingly desperate circumstances for the majority. This effect is reinforced by the corollary belief that the captains of industry who drive this system should enjoy a special status, a belief that is the root of many of our current problems and is perhaps also the reason why conspiracy theories abound. When men and women are rewarded for greed, greed becomes a corrupting motivator. When we equate the gluttonous consumption of the earth’s resources with a status approaching sainthood, when we teach our children to emulate people who live unbalanced lives, and when we define huge sections of the population as subservient to an elite minority, we ask for trouble. And we get it.
Excerpt From The On-line Book
&quot;In Search of Mystery Babylon&quot;
By Dene McGriff
http://www.the-tribulation-network.com/denemcgriff/in_search_of_babylon_intro.htm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A Wise Quotation By Dene McGriff<br />
Some would blame our current problems on an organized conspiracy. I wish it were so simple. Members of a conspiracy can be rooted out and brought to justice. This system, however, is fueled by something far more dangerous than conspiracy. It is driven not by a small band of men but by a concept that has become accepted as gospel: the idea that all economic growth benefits humankind and that the greater the growth, the more widespread the benefits. This belief also has a corollary: that those people who excel at stoking the fires of economic growth should be exalted and rewarded, while those born at the fringes are available for exploitation.<br />
The concept is, of course, erroneous. We know that in many countries economic growth benefits only a small portion of the population and may in fact result in increasingly desperate circumstances for the majority. This effect is reinforced by the corollary belief that the captains of industry who drive this system should enjoy a special status, a belief that is the root of many of our current problems and is perhaps also the reason why conspiracy theories abound. When men and women are rewarded for greed, greed becomes a corrupting motivator. When we equate the gluttonous consumption of the earth’s resources with a status approaching sainthood, when we teach our children to emulate people who live unbalanced lives, and when we define huge sections of the population as subservient to an elite minority, we ask for trouble. And we get it.<br />
Excerpt From The On-line Book<br />
&#8220;In Search of Mystery Babylon&#8221;<br />
By Dene McGriff<br />
<a href="http://www.the-tribulation-network.com/denemcgriff/in_search_of_babylon_intro.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.the-tribulation-net....._intro.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: Julianne</title>
		<link>http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2010/08/17/some-dare-call-it-conspiracy-the-john-birch-society-and-splc/comment-page-1/#comment-188568</link>
		<dc:creator>Julianne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Aug 2010 16:55:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.splcenter.org/blog/?p=4592#comment-188568</guid>
		<description>In your &quot;10 Popular Conspiracy Theories&quot; article, Mr. Zaitchik, you briefly allude to &quot;directed energy,&quot; but then blithely dismiss the phenomenon as being related only to the alleged conspiracies surrounding the HAARP program.  

Is there some reason why you failed to address electronic weapons and the many thousands of complaints on the Internet concerning the use of these weapons systems against randomly-selected citizens in what appears to be some sort of psychotic social-control experiment?  

Is there also some reason why you have ignored complaints concerning the organized-stalking campaigns which invariably precede and accompany these electronic harassment activities?   Organized stalking is apparently designed to bully and terrorize the said randomly-selected citizens into total mental and emotional collapse, perhaps to facilitate their susceptibility to electronic harassment.

Both types of operations are highly organized, to put it mildly, and have been around for decades.  I personally have experienced the hellish worst of the worst for more than 40 years, as a target of both electronic harassment and organized stalking.  And my situation is far from unique.

Your silence on these topics is noteworthy.  Does the frightening prospect of retaliation keep you silent?  

It is this silence which long ago persuaded me that organizations such as yours are merely comprised of &quot;armchair progressives&quot; who carefully constrain their activist pursuits so as to avoid the full impact of today&#039;s forms of retaliation.

You may have noticed in your cursory scans of the Internet that the victims of these types of operations refer to themselves collectively as &quot;targeted individuals,&quot; or &quot;TIs.&quot;  You may have also noticed that these operations are global in their reach.

Ironically, far too many TIs have latched onto the various types of conspiracy theories which you characterize as being &quot;right-wing.&quot;  

I say, &quot;ironically,&quot; because TIs are leftist to the core, simply trying to understand why their human and civil rights are being so horrendously abused---as facilitated by the silence of such armchair progressives as currently comprise the SPLC and other like organizations.  Many TIs seem to think that militia-originated, &quot;patriotic&quot; conspiracy theories might furnish some type of explanation.

We can only hope that somewhere in organizations such as yours SOMEONE will have the guts to at least try to track these operations to their source and to expose them.  Do you have guts, Mr. Zaitchik?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In your &#8220;10 Popular Conspiracy Theories&#8221; article, Mr. Zaitchik, you briefly allude to &#8220;directed energy,&#8221; but then blithely dismiss the phenomenon as being related only to the alleged conspiracies surrounding the HAARP program.  </p>
<p>Is there some reason why you failed to address electronic weapons and the many thousands of complaints on the Internet concerning the use of these weapons systems against randomly-selected citizens in what appears to be some sort of psychotic social-control experiment?  </p>
<p>Is there also some reason why you have ignored complaints concerning the organized-stalking campaigns which invariably precede and accompany these electronic harassment activities?   Organized stalking is apparently designed to bully and terrorize the said randomly-selected citizens into total mental and emotional collapse, perhaps to facilitate their susceptibility to electronic harassment.</p>
<p>Both types of operations are highly organized, to put it mildly, and have been around for decades.  I personally have experienced the hellish worst of the worst for more than 40 years, as a target of both electronic harassment and organized stalking.  And my situation is far from unique.</p>
<p>Your silence on these topics is noteworthy.  Does the frightening prospect of retaliation keep you silent?  </p>
<p>It is this silence which long ago persuaded me that organizations such as yours are merely comprised of &#8220;armchair progressives&#8221; who carefully constrain their activist pursuits so as to avoid the full impact of today&#8217;s forms of retaliation.</p>
<p>You may have noticed in your cursory scans of the Internet that the victims of these types of operations refer to themselves collectively as &#8220;targeted individuals,&#8221; or &#8220;TIs.&#8221;  You may have also noticed that these operations are global in their reach.</p>
<p>Ironically, far too many TIs have latched onto the various types of conspiracy theories which you characterize as being &#8220;right-wing.&#8221;  </p>
<p>I say, &#8220;ironically,&#8221; because TIs are leftist to the core, simply trying to understand why their human and civil rights are being so horrendously abused&#8212;as facilitated by the silence of such armchair progressives as currently comprise the SPLC and other like organizations.  Many TIs seem to think that militia-originated, &#8220;patriotic&#8221; conspiracy theories might furnish some type of explanation.</p>
<p>We can only hope that somewhere in organizations such as yours SOMEONE will have the guts to at least try to track these operations to their source and to expose them.  Do you have guts, Mr. Zaitchik?</p>
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		<title>By: beholder</title>
		<link>http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2010/08/17/some-dare-call-it-conspiracy-the-john-birch-society-and-splc/comment-page-1/#comment-187874</link>
		<dc:creator>beholder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Aug 2010 18:35:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.splcenter.org/blog/?p=4592#comment-187874</guid>
		<description>Yeah I mean look at the whole Republican line. Those guys will believe anything in defiance of the facts, and they are just run of the mill right wingers. Imagine the fringe element.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah I mean look at the whole Republican line. Those guys will believe anything in defiance of the facts, and they are just run of the mill right wingers. Imagine the fringe element.</p>
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		<title>By: Snorlax</title>
		<link>http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2010/08/17/some-dare-call-it-conspiracy-the-john-birch-society-and-splc/comment-page-1/#comment-187856</link>
		<dc:creator>Snorlax</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Aug 2010 16:41:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.splcenter.org/blog/?p=4592#comment-187856</guid>
		<description>The key word here is &quot;belief&quot;.

If you&#039;re a true believer in conspiracies, no amount of facts to the contrary are going to shake your belief.

Belief operates at an emotional level that can be stronger than the person&#039;s own intellectual state.

Emotions just happen.  Thoughts you have to think about.

That&#039;s why you cannot shake people&#039;s beliefs.  It is very difficult to overcome emotional beliefs with logic and facts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The key word here is &#8220;belief&#8221;.</p>
<p>If you&#8217;re a true believer in conspiracies, no amount of facts to the contrary are going to shake your belief.</p>
<p>Belief operates at an emotional level that can be stronger than the person&#8217;s own intellectual state.</p>
<p>Emotions just happen.  Thoughts you have to think about.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s why you cannot shake people&#8217;s beliefs.  It is very difficult to overcome emotional beliefs with logic and facts.</p>
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		<title>By: Ruslan Amirkhanov</title>
		<link>http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2010/08/17/some-dare-call-it-conspiracy-the-john-birch-society-and-splc/comment-page-1/#comment-187783</link>
		<dc:creator>Ruslan Amirkhanov</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Aug 2010 09:14:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.splcenter.org/blog/?p=4592#comment-187783</guid>
		<description>Ernie, I believe you were the one who had that website with a detailed study of the JBS.  I read through that some time ago and it was an excellent resource.  

Personally I have tried your &quot;test&quot; so to speak, and I know how pointless it can be.  I have dealt with those who believe in the 9-11 conspiracy, Holocaust denial, the Pearl Harbor conspiracy, and the Jewish conspiracy.  In all cases adherents often make references to other conspiracies as proof toward the one they are currently advancing. For example, &quot;we know the government lied about Pearl Harbor so why wouldn&#039;t they lie about 9-11?  9-11 WAS an inside job!!!!!1111&quot;  

There is a much simpler test:  Extraordinary claims(claims which go against established conventional knowledge) require extraordinary proof.  How extraordinary it is depends on how extraordinary the claim is.  If the evidence is sufficient, decades or centuries of conventional knowledge can become obsolete in an instant- we just need proof of some kind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ernie, I believe you were the one who had that website with a detailed study of the JBS.  I read through that some time ago and it was an excellent resource.  </p>
<p>Personally I have tried your &#8220;test&#8221; so to speak, and I know how pointless it can be.  I have dealt with those who believe in the 9-11 conspiracy, Holocaust denial, the Pearl Harbor conspiracy, and the Jewish conspiracy.  In all cases adherents often make references to other conspiracies as proof toward the one they are currently advancing. For example, &#8220;we know the government lied about Pearl Harbor so why wouldn&#8217;t they lie about 9-11?  9-11 WAS an inside job!!!!!1111&#8243;  </p>
<p>There is a much simpler test:  Extraordinary claims(claims which go against established conventional knowledge) require extraordinary proof.  How extraordinary it is depends on how extraordinary the claim is.  If the evidence is sufficient, decades or centuries of conventional knowledge can become obsolete in an instant- we just need proof of some kind.</p>
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		<title>By: ernie1241</title>
		<link>http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2010/08/17/some-dare-call-it-conspiracy-the-john-birch-society-and-splc/comment-page-1/#comment-187692</link>
		<dc:creator>ernie1241</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Aug 2010 23:51:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.splcenter.org/blog/?p=4592#comment-187692</guid>
		<description>When it is convenient for them to do so -- the Birch Society ignores its own correct advice about conspiracy theories which they used to post on their website.  

The JBS declared:

&quot;What is fact? What is fiction? How can you know? Conspiracy theories abound on the Internet. While some may be fairly accurate, others are not. Much of what is out there goes beyond the facts into wild conjecturing, and even outright fabrication of information. This has had an effect something like Gresham&#039;s Law (‘bad money drives out good money’), in which bad information drives out good information.&quot; 

If one GENUINELY is interested in facts and truth --- then one MUST be willing to specify the methodology which is applicable to ALL assertions made in anybody&#039;s &quot;theory&quot;. 

Otherwise, as the JBS correctly points out, you will have no way to avoid descending into &quot;wild conjecturing and even outright fabrication of information...in which bad information drives out good information.&quot; 

As Karl Popper pointed out, in the universe of available data, one can always find &quot;confirmations&quot; for whatever ideas one prefers to believe.  

The most compelling factor, however, is whether or not a theory can be falsified.

Conspiracy theorists declare that they are uniquely insightful and that they unearth data and connect dots which escape 99.9% of the rest of humanity.  

Significantly, however, most extreme right conspiracy believers are totally unwilling to discuss their methodology---i.e. what rules of evidence and logic they think should apply to all discussions.  Conspiracy believers frequently construct self-sealing arguments designed to ignore, dismiss, de-value or trivialize contradictory evidence---even when it originates from sources which, previously, the conspiracy believer has recommended as reliable and authoritative.  [For example:  the JBS routinely de-values or dismisses statements and conclusions which appear in FBI investigative files during J. Edgar Hoover&#039;s tenure -- even while they simultaneously have claimed that the FBI was our nation&#039;s most knowledgeable, authoritative, and reliable source of data regarding internal security matters!]

So here is my simple test: 

Go to Wikipedia&#039;s article which lists conspiracy theories here: 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_theory_list 

1-Choose ANY theory listed which YOU believe is absurd and absolutely FALSE. 

2-Then contact the author(s) of and a sample of the devout believers in that theory and present your best evidence against their theory. 

3-Then --- let us know the result.
 
4-Repeat that process 10 times (i.e attempt to refute any 10 conspiracy theories which you think are absurd and absolutely false) -- and let us know how many times you are successful at getting the author(s) and devout believers to acknowledge that you have successfully disproven their theory. 

If you cannot achieve even ONE instance of somebody agreeing that you have disproven their theory ---- then WHAT CONCLUSION about conspiracy theories and conspiracy believers seems warranted based upon your first-hand experience?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When it is convenient for them to do so &#8212; the Birch Society ignores its own correct advice about conspiracy theories which they used to post on their website.  </p>
<p>The JBS declared:</p>
<p>&#8220;What is fact? What is fiction? How can you know? Conspiracy theories abound on the Internet. While some may be fairly accurate, others are not. Much of what is out there goes beyond the facts into wild conjecturing, and even outright fabrication of information. This has had an effect something like Gresham&#8217;s Law (‘bad money drives out good money’), in which bad information drives out good information.&#8221; </p>
<p>If one GENUINELY is interested in facts and truth &#8212; then one MUST be willing to specify the methodology which is applicable to ALL assertions made in anybody&#8217;s &#8220;theory&#8221;. </p>
<p>Otherwise, as the JBS correctly points out, you will have no way to avoid descending into &#8220;wild conjecturing and even outright fabrication of information&#8230;in which bad information drives out good information.&#8221; </p>
<p>As Karl Popper pointed out, in the universe of available data, one can always find &#8220;confirmations&#8221; for whatever ideas one prefers to believe.  </p>
<p>The most compelling factor, however, is whether or not a theory can be falsified.</p>
<p>Conspiracy theorists declare that they are uniquely insightful and that they unearth data and connect dots which escape 99.9% of the rest of humanity.  </p>
<p>Significantly, however, most extreme right conspiracy believers are totally unwilling to discuss their methodology&#8212;i.e. what rules of evidence and logic they think should apply to all discussions.  Conspiracy believers frequently construct self-sealing arguments designed to ignore, dismiss, de-value or trivialize contradictory evidence&#8212;even when it originates from sources which, previously, the conspiracy believer has recommended as reliable and authoritative.  [For example:  the JBS routinely de-values or dismisses statements and conclusions which appear in FBI investigative files during J. Edgar Hoover's tenure -- even while they simultaneously have claimed that the FBI was our nation's most knowledgeable, authoritative, and reliable source of data regarding internal security matters!]</p>
<p>So here is my simple test: </p>
<p>Go to Wikipedia&#8217;s article which lists conspiracy theories here: </p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_theory_list" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C.....heory_list</a> </p>
<p>1-Choose ANY theory listed which YOU believe is absurd and absolutely FALSE. </p>
<p>2-Then contact the author(s) of and a sample of the devout believers in that theory and present your best evidence against their theory. </p>
<p>3-Then &#8212; let us know the result.</p>
<p>4-Repeat that process 10 times (i.e attempt to refute any 10 conspiracy theories which you think are absurd and absolutely false) &#8212; and let us know how many times you are successful at getting the author(s) and devout believers to acknowledge that you have successfully disproven their theory. </p>
<p>If you cannot achieve even ONE instance of somebody agreeing that you have disproven their theory &#8212;- then WHAT CONCLUSION about conspiracy theories and conspiracy believers seems warranted based upon your first-hand experience?</p>
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		<title>By: Snorlax</title>
		<link>http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2010/08/17/some-dare-call-it-conspiracy-the-john-birch-society-and-splc/comment-page-1/#comment-187622</link>
		<dc:creator>Snorlax</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Aug 2010 17:44:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.splcenter.org/blog/?p=4592#comment-187622</guid>
		<description>Ray Kroc is trying to poison us with Big Macs?

That may be difficult, that old grouch has been dead for a couple decades.

Kroc was a big pal of Nixon&#039;s and was always trying to get rid of the minimum wage so he could pay his McPeons less.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ray Kroc is trying to poison us with Big Macs?</p>
<p>That may be difficult, that old grouch has been dead for a couple decades.</p>
<p>Kroc was a big pal of Nixon&#8217;s and was always trying to get rid of the minimum wage so he could pay his McPeons less.</p>
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