Hatewatch Tweets
Hatewatch is managed by the staff of the Intelligence Report, an investigative magazine published by the Alabama-based civil rights group Southern Poverty Law Center.
Racist Novel Glorifying Assassination of SPLC Staffer Endorsed by Profs
It should surprise no one that former hate group leader Kyle Bristow has self-published a white nationalist novel that features the graphic assassination of a character based on a prominent Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) figure. After all, Bristow has an ax to grind with the SPLC and first attained notoriety for promoting a video game centered on killing Mexicans.
What is somewhat surprising are some of the names that appear among the dozen gushing blurbs praising the violently racist novel, White Apocalypse.
Among those who have endorsed Bristow’s novel is Kevin MacDonald, professor of psychology at California State University at Long Beach. McDonald calls Bristow’s book “an emotionally compelling account of Whites as historical victims of non-Whites — just the sort of thing we need to motivate a renaissance among our people.”
Despite his high-sounding position, MacDonald is a raging anti-Semite who contends that Jews are driven by a genetically programmed evolutionary strategy to undermine Western civilization. MacDonald, whose writings on Jews have been condemned by his academic colleagues, recently joined an explicitly white supremacist group, the American Third Position, which was started by a man who has called for the deportation of all Americans with any “ascertainable trace of Negro blood.”
Another fan of Bristow’s novel is self-described white “separatist” Virginia Abernethy, a professor emerita at Vanderbilt University medical school. Abernethy calls White Apocalypse a “well-researched page-turner” and hopes it is the first of many. “One looks forward to much more from this author,” she writes.
Craig Bodeker, producer of the film “A Conversation About Race,” also weighs in with a prominent endorsement. Bodeker, who claims he is no racist (despite posting Internet comments describing black people as “EVIL monkeys”), calls Bristow’s book “the jolt Whites need to awaken from our suicidal slumber!”
Let’s hope no one takes Bristow’s book seriously, let alone being “awakened” by it. Its plot revolves around a series of violent revenge fantasies against Jewish professors, Latino and Native American activists, and the SPLC.
One of the main story lines of White Apocalypse involves one man’s crusade against the “evil, anti-Western” activities of an Atlanta-based organization called the “Center for Diversity and Multiculturalism.” The organization, with its “hate group list” and large legal staff, is clearly modeled on the Montgomery-based SPLC. The book also includes characters whose roles match that of two SPLC senior staffers: Mark Potok, the director of SPLC’s Intelligence Project and editor of its Intelligence Report and this blog, and Heidi Beirich, the SPLC’s director of research (Beirich’s name is rendered as “Beirman” in Bristow’s book).
On page 195, the Potok character — who Bristow describes as an “oily, curly haired troll” and Center spokesman named David Greenberg — has just finished delivering testimony in a federal courthouse. As Greenberg stands outside the building, the novel’s hero, a one-man militia named Jack Schoenherr (which translates from the German, roughly, as “Mr. Handsome”), fires a bullet from his AR-15 from the roof of a nearby parking garage. Bristow describes the event as follows:
The supersonic projectile hit the leftist agitator one inch below the eye, and the bullet exited the back of his head nanoseconds later. … Brain, blood, and skull fragments burst forth from what was once Greenberg’s head, and the leftist was blown off both of his feet. Greenberg died instantly, and his last words were “We must destroy the plague that is Western culture.” Ironically, Western culture got him first. From Valhalla [a celebration hall in Scandinavian mythology], Thor, the archenemy of trolls, smiled at the accomplishment of the epitome of Western Man.
When asked to comment on what is obviously a murder fantasy concerning the SPLC’s Potok, Bristow replied in an E-mail that began “Dear Guttersnipe” that any parallels were purely coincidental.
“I do not ‘fantasize’ about anyone’s death,” said Bristow. “I do, however, fantasize quite often of taking the country over and implementing a real right-wing agenda that would make [archconservative MSNBC commentator] Pat Buchanan and the late Sam Francis [the chief editor of the white supremacist Council of Conservative Citizens] proud. What I mean by this is the most offensive thing possible, and what this is I will leave to your imagination.”
Precious little imagination is required.
With its anti-Semitism and racist venom, White Apocalypse is the latest entry into a long tradition of American hate-fiction animated by the hatreds and frustrations that fester in far-right circles. The most famous of the genre in recent times, of course, is the late neo-Nazi William Pierce’s The Turner Diaries, a race-war fantasy novel that inspired the Oklahoma City bombing and the murderous acts of the domestic terrorist group, the Order, in the mid-1980s.
Bristow’s book makes clear that his current heroes include, not just marginal far-right figures, but conservative commentators employed by major cable news and radio networks. Early in the novel, Bristow quotes “Dr. Michael Savage” approvingly, an obvious reference to hate-radio jock Michael Savage. The book’s militia tough-guy hero offers a reading list that includes Pat Buchanan’s The Suicide of the West. Nor does it take long to figure out that the name of the Bristow book’s protagonist, Samuel Buchanan, is meant as homage to Pat Buchanan and Buchanan’s late friend, one-time Washington Times columnist, Samuel Francis.
Bristow, now a law student at the University of Toledo, forged most of his connections to the radical right as the 21-year-old campus director of the nationally recognized Michigan State University chapter of Young Americans for Freedom. He gained notoriety (as well as SPLC’s hate group designation) for inviting well-known extremists to speak on campus, such as the leader of the whites-only British National Party, Nick Griffin, and for stunts like advocating a video game in which players earned points by shooting Mexican migrants at the border.
While representing YAF, Bristow earned notice from bookers and hosts at Fox News Channel. As Bristow still proudly boasts on his website, he once appeared on “The O’Reilly Factor” and has been quoted on-air by Sean Hannity.
on October 22nd, 2010 at 4:33 pm
I don’t know what’s worse: the actual contents of this piece of garbage that some obscure publishing house had the gall to call a book, or the fact that professors at well known universities are plugging it. Furthermore, what does it say about the colleges and universities that they would continue to allow a professor with such extreme views to teach on their campuses?
It’s hardly surprising that this clown has been quoted by the likes of Sean Hannity. I wouldn’t be surprised if Glenn Beck hears about this and starts touting this writer (and I use that term VERY loosely) as some kind of American hero.
Pathetic that in 2010, we still have Neanderthals alive and well and walking amongst us.
on October 23rd, 2010 at 12:16 am
Politics/decency aside, that’s some horrible writing.
on October 23rd, 2010 at 7:38 am
What’s pathetic is cowardly White Nationalists writing Mary Sue stories out of frustration.
on October 23rd, 2010 at 10:45 am
I read the book. It was a great and fairly realistic portrait of the modern white man’s struggle against the ultra-left loonies.
on October 23rd, 2010 at 2:17 pm
Thanks. I was worried that my problems with software and the total fail of an online purchase wasn’t enough to bring my attitude down enough to finish my novel about the casual wholesale murder of the unworthy.
on October 23rd, 2010 at 2:24 pm
And BTW, Neanderthals were much, much better than the monsters of today, in our country.
on October 23rd, 2010 at 4:06 pm
“I read the book. It was a great and fairly realistic portrait of the modern white man’s struggle against the ultra-left loonies.”
Yeah- it’s the LEFT-wing people who are “loons.”
Oh the poor white man.
on October 23rd, 2010 at 4:18 pm
Exactly Ruslan! Glad to see you are in agreement!
on October 23rd, 2010 at 5:05 pm
Such Hypocrisy. The left to this day uses violence all the time. Even when someone wants to speak on a college campus there are violent protest against free speech against the right. A college even hires terrorist with no credentials except for their own lunatic leftist ideology. BTW hate speech is anything a leftist does not agree with. Racism is when white people do what is in their own best interest.
on October 23rd, 2010 at 5:20 pm
“the hatreds and frustrations that fester in far-right circles”… ironic, considering that hatred and frustration are the tones which dominate this very ‘book review’.
on October 23rd, 2010 at 5:28 pm
“Yeah- it’s the LEFT-wing people who are “loons.”
Oh the poor white man.”
Yeah, with what, 100+ million deaths under left-wing systems in the past century, I think it’s safe to say that’s accurate.
Please let me know what percentage of murders in the past decade were the result of right wing extremists compared to inter-racial crimes with White people being the victims.
I won’t wait for an answer.
on October 23rd, 2010 at 7:53 pm
Oh great! I knew they’d come out of the woodworks again. It’s a shame that ministers have the audacity to tell people how to live, i.e. the LGBT community, pro-life, yet, they have nothing to say to these people that glorify killing, hateful speech…btw, these extremists, or should I called them terrorists (technically they are terrorists because they terrorize minorities) always want to point the finger at others so that they can make themselves look good. Don’t know if anyone saw, I think it was 20/20 last night, a group of Americans living in San Jose, Costa Rica but scamming/defrauded American senior citizens – one of the elected officials from Costa Rica said he was tired of American criminals taking refuge in his country!!!
on October 23rd, 2010 at 10:42 pm
“I read the book. It was a great and fairly realistic portrait of the modern white man’s struggle against the ultra-left loonies.”
Not to toot our own horn, but….
http://anti-racistcanada.blogs.....trean.html
on October 24th, 2010 at 12:53 am
Something in the water these people drink? Both left and right regiemes have done horrible evil things. There is no White man’s burden, it is all of humankind. There is only one race the human race, we can breed, skin color is only an out layer. Humans, have not been around long enough, to be split into separate races.
White supremacy? Remember D-Day?
When our Country whipped the Right Wing Nazi’s butt?
on October 24th, 2010 at 5:57 am
Of course you won’t wait for an answer Lee, because every time your spew your nonsense onto this blog I trounce you.
“Yeah, with what, 100+ million deaths under left-wing systems in the past century, I think it’s safe to say that’s accurate.”
Incorrect. The figure of 100 million killed under Communism(which constitutes only one form of leftism) is a ridiculous fabrication, constructed with the help of faulty logic and dishonest methodology.
Progressive policies have eliminated illiteracy, many diseases, terrible working conditions, and much, much more. Unfortunately you are totally ignorant of history and have no idea what the capitalist world was like prior to the progressive struggle of the workers.
“Please let me know what percentage of murders in the past decade were the result of right wing extremists compared to inter-racial crimes with White people being the victims.”
HUGE logic fail. Politically based crimes, i.e. terrorism, is rare all around. An accurate comparison would be for example, comparing the number killed by right-wing extremists to some group they hate, like the New Black Panther Party(as far as I know their body count is 0).
Pretending that any interracial crime with a white victim is a hate crime or otherwise politically motivated crime is insane.
on October 24th, 2010 at 10:38 am
Lee:
If your allegation is to the crimes of Stalin (as representational of the Left), that dog won’t hunt.
Stalin was a tyrannical communist that was as sick and twisted almost any other of his ilk.
Comparing extremism(s) is a straw-man as both elements appear to diverse themselves but when all is said and done they meet themselves the further they ramble toward totalitarianism. Similar to walking East & West in a circle toward the same goal.
Although great lengths were attempted by propagandists to separate fascism from communism the nationalistic fervor and rule of the dictator made them more alike than different.
As superficially bizarre as it seems; they both had the same agenda but the widow dressings (costumes) were different.
The supposed Aryan supremacy and the supposed dictatorship of the proletariat were guises for a ruling elite to murder and collect spoils of exploitation.
If you would study history without a jaundiced eye you’d see the the sad truth in any but the dawning of freedom in ancient democracy and it’s progression to our Constitutional Republic.
Man never advanced under a king or dictator for more than a very short period. Whereas the evolution of society under the expansion of freedoms for the citizen continued to grow albeit in stumbling small steps.
I would prefer the small step forward – to the lurch backward any day.
If you don’t love and treasure or Constitutional way of government – be my guest and get the Hell out of our Country: the American method of government just isn’t for you.
on October 24th, 2010 at 2:52 pm
Interesting that this is okay and is ‘free speech,’ yet, when a professor in Califas was accused by the the right of trying to take over the u.s./reconquista there was outrage and attempts to have this professor fired (I think it was at Cal State Los Angeles) – the right used video/audio of something that was years old. Then you have Angela Davis that was allegedly FIRED from USC by Ronald Reagan.
Can’t wait for one of the alleged American born Al-Qaeda to write a novel of this type using ‘free speech.’ I’m certain the right-wing free speech advocates will deny them their rights.
on October 24th, 2010 at 5:46 pm
“Pretending that any interracial crime with a white victim is a hate crime or otherwise politically motivated crime is insane.”
If a white person attacks a member of another race, the white criminal can easily be charged with a hate crime. So why would it be insane to asssume that at crime with a white victim is a hate crime? In America, whites are regularly assaulted and murdered by nonwhites who have no motivation other than a hatred of white people. Why would it be insane to consider these crimes hate crimes? Imagine if some whites attacked assaulted a nonwhite and told him that race was their motivation. Would you consider that a hate crime? Recently, a white teenager named Shane McClellan was beaten and burned by a black man and an Filipino man for hours. They explicitly told him that they were doing this because of his race. They have been charged with a hate crime. Would you consider that charge insane?
on October 25th, 2010 at 2:03 am
“Unfortunately you are totally ignorant of history and have no idea what the capitalist world was like prior to the progressive struggle of the workers.” – Ruslan
Yes and the accumulation of capital was the only thing effective at ending this. Thus the solution was then, and remains, more capitalism. But I guess you didn’t notice that all the greatest and most prosperous countries in the world were capitalist, huh? Doh!
“The supposed Aryan supremacy and the supposed dictatorship of the proletariat were guises for a ruling elite to murder and collect spoils of exploitation.” – Carter
The “supposed” Aryan supremacy? I guess that explains why Germany created the most powerful military in human history? It was due to that make believe superiority, huh?
on October 25th, 2010 at 2:05 am
“The supposed Aryan supremacy and the supposed dictatorship of the proletariat were guises for a ruling elite to murder and collect spoils of exploitation.” – Carter
Oh, and, current left-wing schools of thought are guises for the exact same thing. Left-wing systems NEVER produce their stated aims. Only right-wing systems have produced wealth, prosperity, and created nations that others are willing to risk their lives to live in. All that left-wing thought is, whether by Stalin or anyone else for that matter, is a guise for the above atrocities you have noted. Hence the reason why you are not risking your life to flee to a more left-wing country but why we see the opposite happening on a daily basis. Right-wing systems are better – All of history proves this.
on October 25th, 2010 at 2:55 am
Anyone see this Jewish Hate fantasy recently–Inglourious Basterds? I haven’t seen any but snippets, but it appears to be a celluloid image of the propoganda of the Soviet hate-monger Ilya Grigoryevich Ehrenburg:
“The Germans are not human beings. From now on, the word ‘German’ is the most horrible curse. From now on, the word ‘German’ strikes us to the quick. We have nothing to discuss. We will not get excited. We will kill. If you have not killed at least one German a day, you have wasted that day … If you cannot kill a German with a bullet, then kill him with your bayonet. If your part of the front is quiet and there is no fighting, then kill a German in the meantime … If you have already killed a German, then kill another one – there is nothing more amusing to us than a heap of German corpses. Don’t count the days, don’t count the kilometers. Count only one thing: the number of Germans you have killed. Kill the Germans! … – Kill the Germans! Kill!”
And in another leaflet: “The Germans must be killed. One must kill them … Do you feel sick? Do you feel a nightmare in your breast? … Kill a German! If you are a righteous an conscientious man – kill a German! … Kill!”
This is typical of the steady diet of pathological hate fed to millions of Soviet troops by this Jew, safely ensconced far from the front.
But it wasn’t only the ordinary German soldier Ehrenburg was talking about, whom he accused of the very atrocities the Communists were themselves committing. Ehrenburg’s incendiary writings were, in fact, a prime motivating factor in the orgy of murder and rape against the civilian population that took place as Soviet troops rampaged into the heart of Europe. Appealing to the lowest, most subhuman instincts of this Bolshevik horde, he reiterated his genocidal message:
“Kill! Kill! In the German race there is nothing but evil; not one among the living, not one among the yet unborn but is evil! Follow the precepts of Comrade Stalin. Stamp out the fascist beast once and for all in its lair! Use force and break the racial pride of these German women. Take them as your lawful booty. Kill! As you storm onward, kill, you gallant soldiers of the Red Army.”
on October 25th, 2010 at 10:01 am
“The “supposed” Aryan supremacy? I guess that explains why Germany created the most powerful military in human history? It was due to that make believe superiority, huh?”
You are incorrect.
It has been generally recognized by War Colleges throughout both Europe and the USA that in ratio and proportion of physical might and effectiveness, the Mongol Khans of the 13-14th century created the most powerful military in human history. In terms of individual fighting prowess there has been none who could match the (non-European) Mongol.
Even Alexander did not possess an army that could fight with such skill, tenacity, ruthlessness, & sweeping deadliness.
These facts are backed by US Naval College at Annapolis, US Naval Surface warfare studies-centers program Ridgecrest China Lake, The Citadel, & West Point.
They (The Mongol Empire and fighting techniques) have been the model for Encirclement-Flanking movement & “Retreat-Engagement” techniques, as well as Calvary-Infantry goal motivation manipulation within wide spread engagement.
Just as the (“non-White European”) inventions of Geometry, Algebra, & Calculus as non-arithmetic mathematics and the invention of black powder (China), the greatest innovations to warfare and innovations to peace-time construction have NOT been manufactured in the “Dr. Micheal Savage day dream”; so also have the greatest strides been made by “non-Aryans”.
The magnificent Aryans WERE wonderful at self aggrandizement (that’s called Propaganda; the Nazis had a full ministry for that purpose) but Jesse Owens ran them into the ground in the 1936 Olympics: SS tee shirts & all….
I think you may need to read a bit of history & stop hero-worshiping that which is not possessed by any one grouping of the human race.
on October 25th, 2010 at 10:42 am
JOSH:
(Quote:)
“Imagine if some whites attacked assaulted a nonwhite and told him that race was their motivation. Would you consider that a hate crime? Recently, a white teenager named Shane McClellan was beaten and burned by a black man and an Filipino man for hours. They explicitly told him that they were doing this because of his race. They have been charged with a hate crime. Would you consider that charge insane?”
IF that is what took place: the torturing of an individual, motivated by his race (in this case white); I would consider that a hate crime: unquestionably.
But let’s cut to the nitty-gritty here Josh. What point are you attempting to make? What’s your motivation?
…..That hate crimes do NOT exist in various scenarios?
I think they do and SO does the SPLC. That is WHY the SPLC lists “non-white” groups as Hate Groups in addition to groups like the KKK..
There is no argument there.
If an individual singles another out due to his ethnicity, etc, and harms him or her – that’s a Hate Crime.
If your point is you believe there should be equal treatment under the law – I doubt you’ll get any argument there.
If someone in a wheelchair or some child with Cerebral Palsy were being mis-treated, would you not intercede? Would you not help someone REGARDLESS of their physical circumstances to overcome some “bully” or ugly event? IF SO……there ISN’T any argument!
Take the skin color or the ethnicity and forget it and replace it with the other things that make someone “different” like a physical disability for instance.
The NAZIS would have that “sub-human” murdered! They would “Euthanize” that individual so as to “clean up the race”……Never mind the fact that it cannot be accomplished in such a manner and it’s such a simplistic “chicken farmer” approach to helping mankind cast off genetic disease…….it’s the NAZI way…..”If you’re different: you’re undesirable!”
on October 25th, 2010 at 12:09 pm
Oh Lee, you’re such a card… let’s look at this hilarity.
“But I guess you didn’t notice that all the greatest and most prosperous countries in the world were capitalist, huh? Doh!”
D’oh indeed Lee, because most of the world is capitalist, and most of the world is poor. In fact the poorest nations in the world are also capitalist.
“The “supposed” Aryan supremacy? I guess that explains why Germany created the most powerful military in human history? It was due to that make believe superiority, huh?”
What the hell does this have to do with supremacy? China has the world’s most powerful military today. If you want to speak about WWII, then it was clearly the Soviet Union, followed if not directly rivaled by the USA. Germany on the other hand went to war with an army that was only 10% mechanized. In fact one of the major reasons they never invaded England is because they physically couldn’t. They were so short of the necessary vessels that they were converting civilian barges into landing craft. Worse still, they couldn’t find a way to transport enough horses across the channel to support their army. Yes, Germany failed in large part because of their dependence on horses.
Let’s see what else is in your grab bag of idiocy:
“Oh, and, current left-wing schools of thought are guises for the exact same thing. Left-wing systems NEVER produce their stated aims.”
Incorrect. First off you’d have to define “left-wing” systems but if we look at Western Europe or Scandinavia they are doing far better than the US. Also with few exceptions, all European and Eurasian countries which had socialist revolutions were better off under socialism than they are now.
“Only right-wing systems have produced wealth, prosperity, and created nations that others are willing to risk their lives to live in.”
Yes, people FIGHT to live in Iran, just like they fought to live in Pinochet’s Chile.
” Hence the reason why you are not risking your life to flee to a more left-wing country but why we see the opposite happening on a daily basis.”
Why do Eastern Europeans flee their newly liberated, often conservative nationalist kleptocracies to live in European leftist social democracies? Many of these states, with politics to the left of the US, have better standards of living than the latter.
” Right-wing systems are better – All of history proves this.”
Laughably incorrect. Before writing about what history proves, I suggest actually studying history.
Pathetic, absolutely pathetic.
on October 25th, 2010 at 12:18 pm
“Anyone see this Jewish Hate fantasy recently–Inglourious Basterds? I haven’t seen any but snippets, but it appears to be a celluloid image of the propoganda of the Soviet hate-monger Ilya Grigoryevich Ehrenburg: ”
I have seen it, and by likening it to Ehrenburg you are insulting him. Tarantino’s craptastic Spaghetti western tribute/Dirty Dozen ripoff/No plot extravaganza actually makes the Germans come off looking good.
Now, the problem with the Ehrenburg quote you provided is two-fold. First, it’s incomplete. I’m adding the beginning of it for context:
“Here are excerpts from three letters found on dead Germans. Inspector Reinhardt wrote to Lieutenant Otto Schirach:[2] “[...] I have found six Russians in the area. They last far longer than Frenchmen. Only one of them has died. [...] Their upkeep costs nothing and we must not tolerate that these animals, whose children are possibly killing our children right now, get to eat German bread. Yesterday I whipped lightly two Russian beasts who secretly drunk up skim milk meant for pigs [...]” A certain Otto Essmann wrote to Lieutenant Helmut Wiegand: “We now have some Russian prisoners of war. These fellows feed on worms by the airstrip and throw themselves at buckets of dirty water. I have seen them eating weeds. It is hard to believe that these are human beings…” Slavers – they would like to enslave our people. They take some Russians home, mistreat them, make them lose their wits by hunger, to the point that they eat grass and worms, and then a repulsive German with a stinking cigar can philosophise: “Are these perhaps human beings?” We know everything. The Germans are not human beings. From now on, the word ‘German’ is the most horrible curse. From now on, the word ‘German’ strikes us to the quick. We have nothing to discuss. We will not get excited. We will kill. If you have not killed at least one German a day, you have wasted that day … If you cannot kill a German with a bullet, then kill him with your bayonet. If your part of the front is quiet and there is no fighting, then kill a German in the meantime … If you have already killed a German, then kill another one – there is nothing more amusing to us than a heap of German corpses. Don’t count the days, don’t count the kilometers. Count only one thing: the number of Germans you have killed. Kill the Germans! … – Kill the Germans! Kill!”
“And in another leaflet: “The Germans must be killed. One must kill them … Do you feel sick? Do you feel a nightmare in your breast? … Kill a German! If you are a righteous an conscientious man – kill a German! … Kill!”
Off the top of my head this is not directly from Ehrenburg but rather Konstantin Simonov, a famous Russian poet of the war.
“This is typical of the steady diet of pathological hate fed to millions of Soviet troops by this Jew, safely ensconced far from the front. ”
Ah but you see, they didn’t need Ehrenburg to make them hate the Germans. If you knew anything about what the Germans were doing on the Eastern Front- well known all over the USSR since late 1941, you would understand where the hatred came from.
” Appealing to the lowest, most subhuman instincts of this Bolshevik horde”
Yes, here you basically call Russians, Belorussians, and Ukrainians subhumans, but you WNs kiss Slavic ass every opportunity you get.
“Kill! Kill! In the German race there is nothing but evil; not one among the living, not one among the yet unborn but is evil! Follow the precepts of Comrade Stalin. Stamp out the fascist beast once and for all in its lair! Use force and break the racial pride of these German women. Take them as your lawful booty. Kill! As you storm onward, kill, you gallant soldiers of the Red Army.”
Got some heart-breaking news for you- this quote is fake. Don’t take my word for it- it’s in Anthony Beevor’s Fall of Berlin, and extremely anti-Soviet book typical of self-righteous British military historians.
Have a nice day. And don’t bother watching Inglourious Basterds.
on October 25th, 2010 at 12:22 pm
Ok, last on the moron train….
“If a white person attacks a member of another race, the white criminal can easily be charged with a hate crime.”
Actually white people assault people of other races all the time and don’t get charged with hate crimes.
” So why would it be insane to asssume that at crime with a white victim is a hate crime?”
When there’s no evidence to suggest it was motivated by race.
” In America, whites are regularly assaulted and murdered by nonwhites who have no motivation other than a hatred of white people. Why would it be insane to consider these crimes hate crimes?”
IF the crime can be shown to have been motivated by race- then no, because this would be a hate crime. Nice how you make it sound like whites are being assaulted left and right solely based on race. Why don’t you go whine to a Palestinian or Kurd about your persecution some time?
” Imagine if some whites attacked assaulted a nonwhite and told him that race was their motivation. Would you consider that a hate crime?”
This is the DEFINITION of a hate crime. When this happens in reverse, it is a hate crime. Why is this so difficult for you to understand.
” Recently, a white teenager named Shane McClellan was beaten and burned by a black man and an Filipino man for hours. They explicitly told him that they were doing this because of his race. They have been charged with a hate crime. Would you consider that charge insane?”
Uh let’s see- there’s evidence it was motivated by race, and you claimed they were charged with a hate crime- so it looks like the system works. Thanks for proving my argument.
on October 25th, 2010 at 2:38 pm
Ruslan and Carter,
Two-thumbs up and two snaps in a circle. This is the best laugh I’ve had all day, thanks. You guys are KING!
Oh, I think Lee is a listener of Glenn Beck. Beck was on Fox saying, ‘the prez have a deep-seated hatred of white people.’
on October 25th, 2010 at 3:23 pm
Ruslan Amirkhanov said:
“This is the DEFINITION of a hate crime. When this happens in reverse, it is a hate crime. Why is this so difficult for you to understand.”
I have no problems understanding the concept of a hate crime. My problem is that a racially motivated crime is much more likely to be branded a hate crime if the attacker is white.
on October 25th, 2010 at 5:34 pm
Josh,
So then, you agree that what the republicans/tea party members are publicly saying about the prez is racially motivated?
on October 25th, 2010 at 6:35 pm
And your point Ruslan is that this material from Ehrenburg and whomever is not hate? That a movie script like Inglorious Basterds is not hate? How is it different from the racist hate novel?
Hate is a common thing, but we have laws for people who commit criminal ACTS of murder, assault, torture etc. In the couple examples of race motivated criminality mentioned here obviously hate has to be involved and we have penalties that should fit the crimes, wether of murder, assault or torture. The hate is inconsequential except to the criminal commiting the act. Murder is murder, assault of varying degrees are assault etc.
Now who really should care what politics or ideology is writing hateful, sadistic, violent, prejudicial material. Is this some sort of contest? Until that hate is acted upon, it is just as much fantasy as any other violent materials, movies etc. that have long been made and continue to be made. In an actual crime of murder, assault the penalty should be life in prison and death regardless of the race, color, ideology or ‘emotions’ of the criminal committing such acts. Simple as that.
The component of ‘Hate’ is just being used as another ideological, political and financial tool having nothing to do with justice. I see hatred being spoken, written and actually acted upon around the world and not least among those themselves claiming to combat ‘Hate’ and ‘racism’ that is without a doubt blatantly hypocritical.
on October 25th, 2010 at 6:39 pm
Oh…and btw, I read this about Ehrenburg at wikipedia: “Soviet officers like Lev Kopelev, who opposed such rhetoric, were accused of opposing Ehrenburg and “compassion towards the enemy”. Ehrenburg himself was criticised by Georgy Aleksandrov in a Pravda article in April 1945, who called his views towards the Germans simplificating and an exaggeration as it has never been the purpose of Soviet policy to wipe out the German people. Ehrenburg fell in disgrace at that time and it is estimated that Aleksandrov’s article was a signal of change in Stalin’s policy towards Germany”.
When Ehrenburg received letters from frontline soldiers accusing him of having changed his position and of standing for softness towards Germans, he replied he had not changed his position, as he had always stood for “justice, not revenge”.[9] Already in May 1942 he wrote: “The German soldier with weapon in hand is not a man for us, but a fascist. We hate him [...] When the German soldier gives up his weapon and surrenders, we will not touch him with a finger – he will live.”[10]
Ehrenburg was a prominent member of the Jewish Anti-Fascist Committee.
on October 25th, 2010 at 11:50 pm
Josh and Lee,
Can you offer an explanation on this one? I saw a youtube link embedded that David Duke “Israeli Terrorism Against America,” allegedly posted to the Palestine Telegraph. Accordingly, this ‘Palestine Telegraph’ is a hate site. http://hurryupharry.org/2010/0.....avid-duke/ but, to get the entire picture of the posting, see, http://hurryupharry.org see Lauren Booth and “The Muslim Cause” 10-25-2010 – also see “Well Done Kevin Ovenden” where pictures are shown of former Sinn Fein politician Padraig McShane with Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh and alleged pictures of some Turkish men playing dressup as Jihadists…my question is, are you guys playing both sides of the fence? Meaning, there’s so-called Anti-Muslim sentiment in the U.S., but, I have a hard time wrapping my finger on this one when FOX usually have guests against the Ground Zero Mosque – so, are you guys trying to make Americans believe one thing while doing another?
on October 26th, 2010 at 3:19 am
skinnyminny said:
“So then, you agree that what the republicans/tea party members are publicly saying about the prez is racially motivated?”
No, what they’re saying is politically motivated. For more than a century, every president has been despised by the opposing party. If a white person with Obama’s stance on the issues was in the White House, I doubt the republicans would like him.
on October 26th, 2010 at 10:29 am
Josh:
I appeal to your sense of decency here.
Please look into your heart here & ask yourself this:
If you saw a little girl drowning and would immediately jump into the water to save her regardless of her race or ethnicity – I deeply doubt you are a bigot.
On the other hand if you would watch her drown with a sense of satisfaction; enjoying her fear & suffering becasue of her race or ethnicity, that’s another story.
Politics is an ugly, selfish “business”. Separate the “politics” from your sense of self.
There will be bigots and fools who “piggy-back” their vile hate on the back of popular politics. Be very aware of them; for they will use your sense of inequity to their ends.
I have learned to hold politics in contempt because the first aim of a politician is to get themselves re-elected – not to serve the country.
Very, very few have more than a thread of concern for our well-being.The only person we can really depend upon is ourselves to do what’s right for our community.
Realizing inequity is natural and self-preservative but do not be taken in by the appeal to divisiveness [on either "side"]. Hold yourself at a much higher level & recognize ALL sides of the political spectrum for what they are: selfish. Selfish – if they cannot work together for the betterment of the country that they SHOULD be serving to their highest ability.
If in the deepest part of your heart holds tenderness and compassion for those who are weaker or need your help; treasure that. Because that is what makes you a truly stronger man. Do not be exploited.
But do not shut down the kindness that is part of the soul of the truly powerful.
Separate yourself from the petty bullshit that is the hallmark of the political manipulation.
Neither “Right” nor “Left” is “correct”. They are simply labels that were invented by a marketing scheme that has existed for generations to milk the the public of a vote or money.
If what I’m saying has appeal to you; know that there are others that think the same way. Walk your own path & don’t be conned into the horseshit of either “side”. And always be wary of the Hate-monger or the Utopian who has all the answers; we all know life’s too complicated for that. And life is too fucking short to be wrapped in hate & fear instead of compassion & discernment. Leave the Hate for the chump & the weakling.
on October 26th, 2010 at 12:20 pm
Oh poor Rene, let me educate you a bit more:
“And your point Ruslan is that this material from Ehrenburg and whomever is not hate? That a movie script like Inglorious Basterds is not hate? How is it different from the racist hate novel? ”
First off, let’s compare a few things here. Russians, Belorussians, and Ukrainians didn’t NEED Ehrenburg’s(or anyone elses) propaganda to hate the Germans and want revenge. The behavior of Germans in the Eastern Front was inhuman. I suggest you read about the Commissar Order and the Jurisdiction order some time. Even today the numbers of civilian casualties on the Eastern Front has been revised even higher. New evidence has been discovered about atrocities that were rarely if ever mentioned before during the Soviet period, most notably Germany’s sex trafficking involving Belorussian, Ukrainian, Russian, and Polish girls.
Rapes of Soviet girls on the Eastern front were reported in the early months of 1941, and because the Jurisdictional order declared that German military personnel would not be prosecuted for crimes including rape, murder, and theft. Thus they kept no records. By contrast, the Red Army drafted an order that rape would be punished by execution, and while this order was often ignored by local commanders, plenty of eyewitnesses and archival reports show that this sentence was often carried out.
Now do you understand what the Ukrainians, Russians, and Belorussians(incidentally, 1 in 3 Belorussian citizens died during the war) were thinking once they arrived on German territory? Was Ehrenberg responsible for the German behavior that preceded this?
So that was the source of “hatred” amongst the Red Army soldiers. It does not justify the atrocities which did occur in German territory but it does help us to understand why they happened.
” In the couple examples of race motivated criminality mentioned here obviously hate has to be involved and we have penalties that should fit the crimes, wether of murder, assault or torture. The hate is inconsequential except to the criminal commiting the act. Murder is murder, assault of varying degrees are assault etc.”
Yeah yeah, ok so who has gone out and committed murder,inspired by the very Aryan Tarantino’s craptacular Inglourious Basterds? And by the way, while the film is supposedly about killing Nazis, because of Tarantino’s short attention span we see the Basterds in action a grand total of TWO times- one and a half really, the only actual ambush scene lasting a couple seconds.
“Now who really should care what politics or ideology is writing hateful, sadistic, violent, prejudicial material. Is this some sort of contest? Until that hate is acted upon, it is just as much fantasy as any other violent materials, movies….”
Ok so you tried to claim that Ehrenburg’s “hate”(which in fact was just echoing and often repeating what Russians, Ukrainians, and other Soviet citizens were either saying or writing), inspired atrocities in Europe. So if someone reads this book and commits and eerily similar murder- will you condemn it?
on October 26th, 2010 at 9:02 pm
Human beings HATE…this will NEVER change….people have been killing each other since time immemorial…Whites naturally have an innate derision for those not of our kind…same goes for every other race on this globe.
on October 27th, 2010 at 5:55 am
Ruslan…the gist of my questions: Are these examples of written and vocal verbiage hate or not? I don’t need a history lesson to show that groups of individuals did terrible things to other groups of individuals. Hate exists for lots of reasons. You (perhaps) and this group just seem intent on focussing on only certain peoples talking or acting on hate to the neglect of others.
So to answer my question simply: were the examples we discussed here not all expressions of hate in one form or another?
on October 27th, 2010 at 9:12 am
Caught ya, Geo.
“Whites naturally have an innate derision for those not of our kind…same goes for every other race on this globe.”
Nope, no they don’t judging by centuries of mixing between “whites”(a term that didn’t even appear to describe a ‘race’ until the late 16th century, coming into usage more commonly in the late 17th), and “non-whites”. Moreover this assertion of racial hatred does not naturally exist in other “races” either judging by their long history of cultural sharing and mixing.
Take one group of people, the Turks. Their culture has been heavily influenced by that of the Mongols, Persians, Chinese, Arabs, Eastern Slavs, Africans, and Balkan Europeans. That is just one ethnicity. So your theory just got shot to pieces.
That leads us to Rene’s question. First off, Inglourious Basterds is typical Tarantino crap. If Tarantino hates, aside from black people, it’s not stealing ideas from other films and pasting them together into a long, drawn out collection of shout-outs and violence.
Next, Ehrenburg and Simonov- yes, they had hatred, but it was damned well justified. Unlike Russians or Ukrainians under German occupation, white folks in America have a great life according to all known statistics.
on October 27th, 2010 at 2:10 pm
So Ruslan..you are saying ‘hate’ is not bad then, if it is ‘justified’? Are you also saying Germans had no justification to hate Communists? How about the Ukrainians having a hate on for Communists, or Jews for Arabs and vice versa?
I could drag out tons of Jewish, Communist, Nazi, Fascist expressions of hate, racism, bigotry toward nearly everyone. Would that satisfy this groups mission to stamp out expressions of hatred without discrimination? I don’t think so. Instead, I will get another history lesson from an ideological partisan.
on October 27th, 2010 at 4:19 pm
Going back to the orginal point of the article, (it’s amazing how often racism and hatred discussions boil down to coversations about Nazis and Socialists) the idea that someone is publishing clear ideations about assassinating SPLC members (while not new) is abhorrent.
But this is a common thread running through extreme far-right idealogy: If you don’t agree with someone/something, grab your gun or use violence to advocate your beliefs.
Don’t like Dr. George Tiller? Grab your gun and shoot him.
Don’t like gay people? Beat one up and leave him on a fence to die.
Don’t like Moveon.org? Shove a rep from there down and stomp on her head.
Don’t like Muslims? Go catch a cab ride in NY and stab one.
Don’t like black people? Drag one from behind a truck for miles after beating him.
You could fill books with instances where far fight ideology has led to bloodshed, and this book seems to be trying to egg on that type of “if you don’t agree with them, kill them” behavior. It’s disgusting and pathetic that collegiate profs are applauding this book as some kind of epic novel rather than the racist slop/sludge/tripe that it is. I think that is what people should be concerned about, not getting into long-winded debates about Nazis.
on October 27th, 2010 at 10:17 pm
The Media’s Myth of Right Wing Violence
http://www.newsbusters.org/blo.....g-violence
Geico Cancels a Hater
Many of these orchestrated attacks were launched in the days leading up to our September 12th Taxpayer March on Washington. Where was the moral outrage when we received a bomb threat on September 11th? “There’s a f***ing bomb in your building, bitch,” the caller said. Then, did the media write stories about how the Democrats and their hard left adjuncts had gone too far with their threats, their hate, their racism?
http://biggovernment.com/tag/left-wing-violence/
on October 28th, 2010 at 1:06 am
“So Ruslan..you are saying ‘hate’ is not bad then, if it is ‘justified’?”
It is not a question of being good or bad, it is a question of being understandable. Personally I don’t judge things by their content of “hate”, but rather the ideology their are espousing.
” Are you also saying Germans had no justification to hate Communists?”
Considering how many Germans were Communists and the majority of people in any given country are workers- no.
” How about the Ukrainians having a hate on for Communists,”
Except Ukrainians don’t hate Communists, only the Western Ukrainian nationalists and liberal lackeys of the West. Ukrainians fought hard to establish and defend their Soviet republic, so they would have nobody to hate but themselves.
” Would that satisfy this groups mission to stamp out expressions of hatred without discrimination? I don’t think so. Instead, I will get another history lesson from an ideological partisan.”
I don’t recall this article demanding that the book be suppressed. The function of this site seems to be little more than exposing certain fringe beliefs in American society.
on October 28th, 2010 at 1:36 pm
For those arguing for capitalism uber alles, could you please explain why the boom and bust cycle of market crashes caused by wild eyed speculation is somehow preferable to slow, sustained growth?
I would also be very curious to hear you expound on the nexus between the growth of capitalist economies and the flow of precious metals from Asia to the West toward the end of the colonial era.
on October 28th, 2010 at 8:06 pm
I am opposed to both legal and illegal immigration. This country is overpopulated, and 21 million Americans are out of work.
on October 28th, 2010 at 10:57 pm
What’s all the fuss about, people? All this Kyle Bristow guy has done was exercise the same First Amendment-protected right that Robert Rodriguez and Quentin Tarantino have before him; fantasizing about killing those that they despise and loathe.
on October 29th, 2010 at 12:24 am
Rene, why do you get stories from a site that has been roundly discreditted and busted in several lies? I’m talking about Biggoverment.com. In fact I personally e-mailed Breitbart himself asking him how it was possible that the video of Ms. Sherrod’s speech got edited in such a way that it made her appear to be racist- whereas the whole video is nothing of the sort. To date, I have never received an answer.
on October 29th, 2010 at 2:11 am
The Black Book of Communism: Crimes, Terror, Repression
When it was first published in France in 1997, Le livre noir du Communisme touched off a storm of controversy that continues to rage today. Even some of his contributors shied away from chief editor Stéphane Courtois’s conclusion that Communism, in all its many forms, was morally no better than Nazism; the two totalitarian systems, Courtois argued, were far better at killing than at governing, as the world learned to its sorrow.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/06740.....F&
on October 29th, 2010 at 3:48 am
Great post about the Mongols, Carter. Another group of great genetic material.
on October 29th, 2010 at 8:50 am
Ruslan…I chose Big Gov.t.com for no special reason. I don’t know what video you are talking about. However, I am glad you stand to correct them on their llies or mistakes. I looked up Ms. Sherrod and partially watched a video speech made at the NAACP. I’m not a fan of theirs either anymore than many other ‘colored’ people I am aware of; nor am I a fan of Breitbart, Beck or anyone of the mainstream parties and ideologues. I put as much faith and trust in them as I put in you…lol!
The point was merely to show (though I could have looked for better examples) how the ‘left vs. right’ argument about hate, violence and racism is a blanket farce of politics as usual. They all serve one master and that is the ‘COIN’. To quote Oswald Spengler: “There is no proletarian, not even a Communist movement, that has not operated in the interests of money, and for the time being permitted by money – and that without the idealists among its leaders having the slightest suspicion of the fact.”
on October 30th, 2010 at 1:27 am
“To quote Oswald Spengler: “There is no proletarian, not even a Communist movement, that has not operated in the interests of money, and for the time being permitted by money – and that without the idealists among its leaders having the slightest suspicion of the fact.””
Uh no. Sorry.
“The Black Book of Communism: Crimes, Terror, Repression
When it was first published in France in 1997, Le livre noir du Communisme touched off a storm of controversy that continues to rage today.”
Yes, primarily because it downplays Nazi crimes, and exaggerates “Communist crimes”, often with faulty methodology or logic- if not both. It is telling, for example, how all the defenders of human rights and the moral guardians of life suddenly stop counting deaths once socialism in Europe disappeared entirely. If we used the methodology they use to calculate their ridiculously high death tolls, we could easily claim the 9 million males have been killed in the former USSR since 1991.
” Even some of his contributors shied away from chief editor Stéphane Courtois’s conclusion that Communism, in all its many forms, was morally no better than Nazism; the two totalitarian systems, Courtois argued, were far better at killing than at governing, as the world learned to its sorrow.”
And they are wrong. How bout that. The equation of Nazism with Communism has been around for a long time, but it has become especially useful to the European bourgeoisie. In the West, they want to take back the social reforms won by the workers’ movement after WWII. In the East, the leadership has failed to deliver the paradise they promised under capitalism and separatism. In the midst of the current crisis, it is necessary that fascism be rehabilitated, though not so blatantly. The solution is simple- re-write history so the Nazis and Communists are the same, and then imply that the latter were actually worse than the former.
on October 30th, 2010 at 12:04 pm
Ruslan…I am going to end this dialogue by referencing the opinion of someone who experienced both Nazism and Communism, rather than a naive idealist. A female Jewish Professor I met several decades ago had the misfortune to have lived under both systems before finally making their escape. She declared emphatically that as those two systems (Nazism & Communism) operate and the impact it had on the people who were forced to live under them was the same.
I can understand what she means, because as a student of history and ideologies there is no mistaking the both systems (among others) are totalitarian sytems of control…of nasty top-down big-gov’t (with or without the partnership of of Big Finance and Big Bus.).
As for your apologetics on behalf of communism, the denial of it’s terrible crimes, the love of the various ethnics and ‘workers’ for communism…that is one big laughable crock of cow dung. As a worker all my life myself, I am only filled with disgust for the ‘socialist’ ideologies, about as worthy to me as toilet paper about to be flushed. However, I understand the key functional subversive principles behind the flawed ideologies and political structures of the past and continuing to this day. Oswald Spengler’s statement still stands as a truism.
on October 31st, 2010 at 2:12 am
“A female Jewish Professor I met several decades ago had the misfortune to have lived under both systems before finally making their escape. She declared emphatically that as those two systems (Nazism & Communism) operate and the impact it had on the people who were forced to live under them was the same.”
Oh GOOD LORD!! Your unnamed Jewish professor’s personal experience totally defines the 70+ years of socialism in the USSR!!! The tens of millions of people who led normal, happy, lives shouldn’t count. Moreover, your personal revulsion towards a system you don’t even understand totally proves that working people hate Communism. Brilliant, absolutely brilliant.
Fact remains: Spengler was a right-wing crank, the Black Book of Communism is utterly worthless.
on October 31st, 2010 at 2:13 am
I might add that your anonymous Jewish professor forgot one important difference between Nazism and Communism- were they truly the same, she would have been shot by the Bolsheviks simply for being Jewish. In fact no such thing ever happened.
on October 31st, 2010 at 5:23 am
I love how white supremacists love to bandy on about how they are much more ‘intelligent’, ‘superior’, and ‘Aryan’ (which doesn’t exist) than everyone else but can’t write a decent book for the life of them, or make decent music (don’t get me started on that RAC crap lol). Just look at Pierce’s nonsense that has so influenced the modern white power movement. The Turner Diaries and Hunter were absolutely terrible tripe, and I’m not saying that because of the subject matter, either. They are simply unreadable and juvenile in their style. From the excerpt you’ve posted, it seems to true for this ‘book’, as well. And those professors have no business teaching anyone if that’s an example of ‘great literature’ to them. So embarrassing. I pity them.
But what do you expect from a movement that is anti-intellectual and irrational as a rule? These people are embarrassments to the human race. Thankfully, they are too stupid and disorganized to ever reach any of their goals. The faunniest thing above all is that the pitiful lackeys in the movement can’t see that they are all tools of the very system they claim to hate. The CIA and the FBI thanks all of you brain dead bigots for playing your role to perfection!
Oh, and as an aside:
Germany’s military strength during WWII is no evidence of any supposed ‘racial superiority’. It’s easy to have a strong military when you’re being funded by rich bankers, corporations and secret societies and making use of certain arcane knowledges to hypnotize the unwitting populace. The Nazis were just puppets. Horrific ones, no doubt, but puppets nonetheless. So, Lee, I strongly suggest you go learn some REAL history.
Also:
Geo, hate towards wide swaths of humanity is NOT innate. We are not born hateful. Hateful ideologies are learned. Is hate a natural emotion? Of course it is. But when you hate whole groups of people whom you never met and who have done nothing to you, you are falling into irrationality and taking a leave from reality.
Someone teaches you to distrust/dislike/hate different groups of people, or you fall into that because of an experience you’ve had with certain individuals of a group and then you generalize outward from there.
I know how it works. I used to be into National Socialism. Most hatred is externalized self-hatred. I suggest doing some inner healing and learning to love yourself first. When you love yourself, it radiates outward and there’s no room for such destructive modes of thinking and feeling.
on October 31st, 2010 at 3:21 pm
Ruslan Amirkhanov said,
“I might add that your anonymous Jewish professor forgot one important difference between Nazism and Communism- were they truly the same, she would have been shot by the Bolsheviks simply for being Jewish. In fact no such thing ever happened”.
??? You sure you didn’t mean the Nazis would have shot her? If you meant ‘Bosheviks’ or Communists, I guess that pretty much sums up the wonder of Communism. However, why were Ilya Grigoryevich Ehrenburg and many others like him still alive then? You Bolshevik/Communists must have been lousy shots, blind or mystified by some leading Jewish players in Bolshevik/Communism.
Oh…I guess you mean the Nazis would have kept them alive for awhile until they could gas them instead of ‘shooting’ them. I guess that is quite a difference. Stupid Nazis could learn a thing or two from Commies eh?
My anonymous Professor is not made up. As she said, for the people living under either regime, the insufferable effects were the same for EVERYONE. I have of course met many escapees from Communism since that time 30 yrs. ago, of all ethnies (Jews also), who know what Communism means, because they lived under it. None had anything good to say about it.
on November 1st, 2010 at 12:07 pm
Really lowering the bar here Rene.
” You sure you didn’t mean the Nazis would have shot her? If you meant ‘Bosheviks’ or Communists, I guess that pretty much sums up the wonder of Communism. However, why were Ilya Grigoryevich Ehrenburg and many others like him still alive then? You Bolshevik/Communists must have been lousy shots, blind or mystified by some leading Jewish players in Bolshevik/Communism.”
Do I actually need to explain to you that Nazis had a policy of extermination for Jews, whereas Communists did not?
“Oh…I guess you mean the Nazis would have kept them alive for awhile until they could gas them instead of ’shooting’ them. I guess that is quite a difference.”
Nazis DID keep Jews alive for some time before gassing or shooting them. Many others starved to death after being packed into incredibly small ghettoes. What is your point here?
“My anonymous Professor is not made up. As she said, for the people living under either regime, the insufferable effects were the same for EVERYONE.”
Well your anonymous phantom professor is flat out wrong.
“I have of course met many escapees from Communism since that time 30 yrs. ago, of all ethnies (Jews also), who know what Communism means, because they lived under it. None had anything good to say about it.”
Yes yes, every time I get in one of these debates the individual suddenly informs me that they met many defectors, and so on. Well I have met a lot of people who lived under Communism as well. That’s what happens when you live in RUSSIA. Did it ever occur to you that people who escaped from the USSR were those that didn’t like it, and perhaps the tens of millions who stayed, never dreaming of leaving, who must live in the nightmare of the FSU today- might have a worthy opinion as well?
on November 2nd, 2010 at 4:19 am
You didn’t explain ar correct yourself Ruslan. You said right off the top:”I might add that your anonymous Jewish professor forgot one important difference between Nazism and Communism- were they truly the same, she would have been shot by the Bolsheviks simply for being Jewish”
Notice it says the difference was that SHE (the Jewish Professor) WOULD HAVE BEEN SHOT BY THE BOLSHEVIKS for simply being JEWISH. Are you trying to be misleading or was that a mistake?
As for the rest of your speil..you choose to believe and propogate your desusions of what actually happened under either. Your positions is ALWAYS to explicate Communism from it’s Crimes against Humanity. I’m not here to do the same for Nazism. Clearly you are the embodiment of a deluded ideologue or a professional propogandist. In either case, it is a waste of time to take you seriously on anything you claim. You wouldn’t recognise the truth if it hit you in the face with a sledgehammer.
on November 2nd, 2010 at 4:06 pm
“You didn’t explain ar correct yourself Ruslan. be misleading or was that a mistake?”
Gee I’m terribly sorry, I didn’t realize you were too dense to figure out that I was comparing the Nazis’ policy of extermination against Jews to the Bolshevik party, which did not attempt to exterminate races of people.
“As for the rest of your speil..you choose to believe and propogate your desusions of what actually happened under either.”
Delusions…yes, the memories of millions, if not tens of millions of people, are but “delusions” if they should explain that they lived a more or less normal and happy life under socialism.
“Your positions is ALWAYS to explicate Communism from it’s Crimes against Humanity.”
Whatever bloodshed occurred in the name of Communism, is dwarfed by the bodycount of world capitalism- which continues to this day.
” In either case, it is a waste of time to take you seriously on anything you claim. You wouldn’t recognise the truth if it hit you in the face with a sledgehammer.”
Ok I’m going to be very blunt. I know more about Communism and the USSR than you, and whatever I don’t know I could far more easily access than you ever could. The burden of proof is on the Black Book authors to prove their astronomical claims, and thus far they have not been able to. After real numbers have been ascertained, they will be required to explain why these deaths take on a “criminal” significance under socialist regimes but not under capitalist regimes, including those existing today.
You talking about “truth” is laughable because you cannot discern truth from fact on this topic.
on November 2nd, 2010 at 8:42 pm
Jews aren’t a race. Nor are Ukrainians (Hlodomor), and numerous other ethnics of Eastern Europe. Nor are Christians. Any and all who opposed Communism were killed in the millions and Jews are included in that number, who dared to oppose the Bolshevik ‘Capitalist financed’ thugs and mas-murderes.
I make NO excuses for wars committed by ‘Capitalists’ by which in which financiers are the most powerful and dominant troupe of racketeers.Such as these financed your Bolshevik regimes, Nazis, Fascists and much more. Your communists are just the other lying murderous face of finance Capitalism.
As usual you are the typical ideological robot claiming to know real history. No one with an ideological bent could possibly get past their brainwashing to dscern the clearest truth about their opiate. You have proven that over and over again as you are incapable of see with your rose-colored glasses.
Many of us who live in the non-communist west or not yet a full blown ‘dictatorship of the proletariat’ ( barf) know who financed Bolshevism and Communism throughout it’s history. Much of it’s technology was given and/or stolen from the USA in particular so that the USSR was practically built by the USA. Otherwise, it would have remained a Gulag economy ruled by misfit thugs. It wasn’t like the people had a choice about wether they accepted communism….it was that or the Gulag and certain death. Yet, you go on making excuses for it using tu toque arguments.
One thing I may be certain of Ruslan is that you will never get outside your little mind-box to see the bigger picture.
on November 3rd, 2010 at 12:10 am
“Jews aren’t a race.”
Yes, but the Nazis declared them as thus and attempted to exterminate them. Do you need to be told this explicitly?
“Nor are Ukrainians (Hlodomor), and numerous other ethnics of Eastern Europe.”
There is no such thing as the “Holodomor” For about 20 years now the Soviet archives have been open, including agricultural data from the whole of the collectivization period. Not a scrap of paper has been found to even hint that there was some kind of a plan to starve Ukrainians, or anyone else for that matter. What did occur was a bad harvest in many regions(including far outside Ukraine to include parts of the Moscow region).
“Any and all who opposed Communism were killed in the millions and Jews are included in that number, who dared to oppose the Bolshevik ‘Capitalist financed’ thugs and mas-murderes.”
Incorrect. First of all, millions who opposed capitalist regimes were murdered prior to any successful socialist revolution. Why expect the socialists to resort to different tactics knowing the history of the workers’ struggle, and having been invaded by 14 countries including several world powers from 1917?
Also the Bolsheviks, aside from the money and assistance given to Lenin to return from exile, were not “capitalist” funded. This tactic was used by the Kaiser in hopes of knocking Russia out of the war. Otherwise this idiotic claim is based on the fact that most people aren’t aware that two revolutions occurred in Russia in 1917, one bringing a provisional government to power in the Spring. It was this government which was funded by some capitalists.
“I make NO excuses for wars committed by ‘Capitalists’ by which in which financiers are the most powerful and dominant troupe of racketeers.”
Yes, you are making excuses because you treat Communist “crimes” with a totally different standard. And by the way, “financiers”(I see what you’re doing here) are not always the most powerful capitalists, if you understand how capitalism works. Moreover finance and capitalism go hand in hand, you can’t have one without the other.
“Such as these financed your Bolshevik regimes, Nazis, Fascists and much more. Your communists are just the other lying murderous face of finance Capitalism.”
Wars started by Bolsheviks? You mean wars of national liberation to destroy colonial regimes or exploitive neo-colonial states? Wars to overthrow a corrupt ruling class? These constitute the majority of wars “started” by Communists. And please don’t refer to “finance capitalism” as though there are different types of capitalism
“As usual you are the typical ideological robot claiming to know real history.”
But I do know “real history” because I have put in the time to learn it. I have a book on my shelf, for one example, called Hunger in the USSR, filled with scanned documents from the formerly secret archives on the famine perhaps if you read…oh wait, that’s right, you don’t speak Russian. Sorry.
“No one with an ideological bent could possibly get past their brainwashing to dscern the clearest truth about their opiate.”
Brainwashing? Perhaps you can tell me who “brainwashed” me.
“Many of us who live in the non-communist west or not yet a full blown ‘dictatorship of the proletariat’ ( barf) know who financed Bolshevism and Communism throughout it’s history.”
Yup, I know the old Bircher conspiracy theory, and it’s flat out wrong.
” Much of it’s technology was given and/or stolen from the USA in particular so that the USSR was practically built by the USA.”
Incorrect, based on conspiracy theories. The USSR engaged in trade with capitalist nations for decades. They purchased what they needed in the 1930s and often paid above-market prices for it. If you have a problem with capitalists working with eeeevil Communists, then that just shows you how unprincipled the “captains of industry” are.
” Otherwise, it would have remained a Gulag economy ruled by misfit thugs.”
Incorrect, the USSR achieved industrialization in record time, at far less bloodshed than the UK or US. And they did it in the middle of a depression. These are undeniable facts, sorry.
” It wasn’t like the people had a choice about wether they accepted communism….it was that or the Gulag and certain death. Yet, you go on making excuses for it using tu toque arguments.”
Millions of people fought FOR Communism, more than fought against it at the time. Do they get to have an opinion?
“One thing I may be certain of Ruslan is that you will never get outside your little mind-box to see the bigger picture.”
I take it “bigger picture” means the narrative that doesn’t include inconvenient facts and historical context, the big black and white picture painted by liberal apologists and conservative nutcases.
on November 3rd, 2010 at 3:08 pm
So Rene did the Soviets steal the Kalashnikov from the west? I thought we were blaming the commies for that one.
on May 16th, 2011 at 4:57 am
@ Cora Hanf
I concur 100%! Just goes to show you that having a black president NEVER placed us in a ‘post racial’ society. The tragic fact that we have UNIVERSITIES; prominent universities that OPENLY ALLOW such specimen with such extremely nefarious views to teach at their their classrooms; sends a powerful message to our students, children who are our future; are TRULY being subjected to. I can’t mentally ascertain anything more repugnant.