I concur 100%! Just goes to show you that having a black president NEVER placed us in a ‘post racial’ society. The tragic fact that we have UNIVERSITIES; prominent universities that OPENLY ALLOW such specimen with such extremely nefarious views to teach at their their classrooms; sends a powerful message to our students, children who are our future; are TRULY being subjected to. I can’t mentally ascertain anything more repugnant.

Yes, but the Nazis declared them as thus and attempted to exterminate them. Do you need to be told this explicitly?

“Nor are Ukrainians (Hlodomor), and numerous other ethnics of Eastern Europe.”

There is no such thing as the “Holodomor” For about 20 years now the Soviet archives have been open, including agricultural data from the whole of the collectivization period. Not a scrap of paper has been found to even hint that there was some kind of a plan to starve Ukrainians, or anyone else for that matter. What did occur was a bad harvest in many regions(including far outside Ukraine to include parts of the Moscow region).

“Any and all who opposed Communism were killed in the millions and Jews are included in that number, who dared to oppose the Bolshevik ‘Capitalist financed’ thugs and mas-murderes.”

Incorrect. First of all, millions who opposed capitalist regimes were murdered prior to any successful socialist revolution. Why expect the socialists to resort to different tactics knowing the history of the workers’ struggle, and having been invaded by 14 countries including several world powers from 1917?

Also the Bolsheviks, aside from the money and assistance given to Lenin to return from exile, were not “capitalist” funded. This tactic was used by the Kaiser in hopes of knocking Russia out of the war. Otherwise this idiotic claim is based on the fact that most people aren’t aware that two revolutions occurred in Russia in 1917, one bringing a provisional government to power in the Spring. It was this government which was funded by some capitalists.

“I make NO excuses for wars committed by ‘Capitalists’ by which in which financiers are the most powerful and dominant troupe of racketeers.”

Yes, you are making excuses because you treat Communist “crimes” with a totally different standard. And by the way, “financiers”(I see what you’re doing here) are not always the most powerful capitalists, if you understand how capitalism works. Moreover finance and capitalism go hand in hand, you can’t have one without the other.

“Such as these financed your Bolshevik regimes, Nazis, Fascists and much more. Your communists are just the other lying murderous face of finance Capitalism.”

Wars started by Bolsheviks? You mean wars of national liberation to destroy colonial regimes or exploitive neo-colonial states? Wars to overthrow a corrupt ruling class? These constitute the majority of wars “started” by Communists. And please don’t refer to “finance capitalism” as though there are different types of capitalism

“As usual you are the typical ideological robot claiming to know real history.”

But I do know “real history” because I have put in the time to learn it. I have a book on my shelf, for one example, called Hunger in the USSR, filled with scanned documents from the formerly secret archives on the famine perhaps if you read…oh wait, that’s right, you don’t speak Russian. Sorry.

“No one with an ideological bent could possibly get past their brainwashing to dscern the clearest truth about their opiate.”

Brainwashing? Perhaps you can tell me who “brainwashed” me.

“Many of us who live in the non-communist west or not yet a full blown ‘dictatorship of the proletariat’ ( barf) know who financed Bolshevism and Communism throughout it’s history.”

Yup, I know the old Bircher conspiracy theory, and it’s flat out wrong.

” Much of it’s technology was given and/or stolen from the USA in particular so that the USSR was practically built by the USA.”

Incorrect, based on conspiracy theories. The USSR engaged in trade with capitalist nations for decades. They purchased what they needed in the 1930s and often paid above-market prices for it. If you have a problem with capitalists working with eeeevil Communists, then that just shows you how unprincipled the “captains of industry” are.

” Otherwise, it would have remained a Gulag economy ruled by misfit thugs.”

Incorrect, the USSR achieved industrialization in record time, at far less bloodshed than the UK or US. And they did it in the middle of a depression. These are undeniable facts, sorry.

” It wasn’t like the people had a choice about wether they accepted communism….it was that or the Gulag and certain death. Yet, you go on making excuses for it using tu toque arguments.”

Millions of people fought FOR Communism, more than fought against it at the time. Do they get to have an opinion?

“One thing I may be certain of Ruslan is that you will never get outside your little mind-box to see the bigger picture.”

I take it “bigger picture” means the narrative that doesn’t include inconvenient facts and historical context, the big black and white picture painted by liberal apologists and conservative nutcases.

I make NO excuses for wars committed by ‘Capitalists’ by which in which financiers are the most powerful and dominant troupe of racketeers.Such as these financed your Bolshevik regimes, Nazis, Fascists and much more. Your communists are just the other lying murderous face of finance Capitalism.

As usual you are the typical ideological robot claiming to know real history. No one with an ideological bent could possibly get past their brainwashing to dscern the clearest truth about their opiate. You have proven that over and over again as you are incapable of see with your rose-colored glasses.

Many of us who live in the non-communist west or not yet a full blown ‘dictatorship of the proletariat’ ( barf) know who financed Bolshevism and Communism throughout it’s history. Much of it’s technology was given and/or stolen from the USA in particular so that the USSR was practically built by the USA. Otherwise, it would have remained a Gulag economy ruled by misfit thugs. It wasn’t like the people had a choice about wether they accepted communism….it was that or the Gulag and certain death. Yet, you go on making excuses for it using tu toque arguments.

One thing I may be certain of Ruslan is that you will never get outside your little mind-box to see the bigger picture.

Gee I’m terribly sorry, I didn’t realize you were too dense to figure out that I was comparing the Nazis’ policy of extermination against Jews to the Bolshevik party, which did not attempt to exterminate races of people.

“As for the rest of your speil..you choose to believe and propogate your desusions of what actually happened under either.”

Delusions…yes, the memories of millions, if not tens of millions of people, are but “delusions” if they should explain that they lived a more or less normal and happy life under socialism.

“Your positions is ALWAYS to explicate Communism from it’s Crimes against Humanity.”

Whatever bloodshed occurred in the name of Communism, is dwarfed by the bodycount of world capitalism- which continues to this day.

” In either case, it is a waste of time to take you seriously on anything you claim. You wouldn’t recognise the truth if it hit you in the face with a sledgehammer.”

Ok I’m going to be very blunt. I know more about Communism and the USSR than you, and whatever I don’t know I could far more easily access than you ever could. The burden of proof is on the Black Book authors to prove their astronomical claims, and thus far they have not been able to. After real numbers have been ascertained, they will be required to explain why these deaths take on a “criminal” significance under socialist regimes but not under capitalist regimes, including those existing today.

You talking about “truth” is laughable because you cannot discern truth from fact on this topic.

Notice it says the difference was that SHE (the Jewish Professor) WOULD HAVE BEEN SHOT BY THE BOLSHEVIKS for simply being JEWISH. Are you trying to be misleading or was that a mistake?

As for the rest of your speil..you choose to believe and propogate your desusions of what actually happened under either. Your positions is ALWAYS to explicate Communism from it’s Crimes against Humanity. I’m not here to do the same for Nazism. Clearly you are the embodiment of a deluded ideologue or a professional propogandist. In either case, it is a waste of time to take you seriously on anything you claim. You wouldn’t recognise the truth if it hit you in the face with a sledgehammer.

” You sure you didn’t mean the Nazis would have shot her? If you meant ‘Bosheviks’ or Communists, I guess that pretty much sums up the wonder of Communism. However, why were Ilya Grigoryevich Ehrenburg and many others like him still alive then? You Bolshevik/Communists must have been lousy shots, blind or mystified by some leading Jewish players in Bolshevik/Communism.”

Do I actually need to explain to you that Nazis had a policy of extermination for Jews, whereas Communists did not?

“Oh…I guess you mean the Nazis would have kept them alive for awhile until they could gas them instead of ’shooting’ them. I guess that is quite a difference.”

Nazis DID keep Jews alive for some time before gassing or shooting them. Many others starved to death after being packed into incredibly small ghettoes. What is your point here?

“My anonymous Professor is not made up. As she said, for the people living under either regime, the insufferable effects were the same for EVERYONE.”

Well your anonymous phantom professor is flat out wrong.

“I have of course met many escapees from Communism since that time 30 yrs. ago, of all ethnies (Jews also), who know what Communism means, because they lived under it. None had anything good to say about it.”

Yes yes, every time I get in one of these debates the individual suddenly informs me that they met many defectors, and so on. Well I have met a lot of people who lived under Communism as well. That’s what happens when you live in RUSSIA. Did it ever occur to you that people who escaped from the USSR were those that didn’t like it, and perhaps the tens of millions who stayed, never dreaming of leaving, who must live in the nightmare of the FSU today- might have a worthy opinion as well?

“I might add that your anonymous Jewish professor forgot one important difference between Nazism and Communism- were they truly the same, she would have been shot by the Bolsheviks simply for being Jewish. In fact no such thing ever happened”.

??? You sure you didn’t mean the Nazis would have shot her? If you meant ‘Bosheviks’ or Communists, I guess that pretty much sums up the wonder of Communism. However, why were Ilya Grigoryevich Ehrenburg and many others like him still alive then? You Bolshevik/Communists must have been lousy shots, blind or mystified by some leading Jewish players in Bolshevik/Communism.

Oh…I guess you mean the Nazis would have kept them alive for awhile until they could gas them instead of ‘shooting’ them. I guess that is quite a difference. Stupid Nazis could learn a thing or two from Commies eh?

My anonymous Professor is not made up. As she said, for the people living under either regime, the insufferable effects were the same for EVERYONE. I have of course met many escapees from Communism since that time 30 yrs. ago, of all ethnies (Jews also), who know what Communism means, because they lived under it. None had anything good to say about it.

Oh GOOD LORD!! Your unnamed Jewish professor’s personal experience totally defines the 70+ years of socialism in the USSR!!! The tens of millions of people who led normal, happy, lives shouldn’t count. Moreover, your personal revulsion towards a system you don’t even understand totally proves that working people hate Communism. Brilliant, absolutely brilliant.

Fact remains: Spengler was a right-wing crank, the Black Book of Communism is utterly worthless.

I can understand what she means, because as a student of history and ideologies there is no mistaking the both systems (among others) are totalitarian sytems of control…of nasty top-down big-gov’t (with or without the partnership of of Big Finance and Big Bus.).

As for your apologetics on behalf of communism, the denial of it’s terrible crimes, the love of the various ethnics and ‘workers’ for communism…that is one big laughable crock of cow dung. As a worker all my life myself, I am only filled with disgust for the ‘socialist’ ideologies, about as worthy to me as toilet paper about to be flushed. However, I understand the key functional subversive principles behind the flawed ideologies and political structures of the past and continuing to this day. Oswald Spengler’s statement still stands as a truism.

Uh no. Sorry.

“The Black Book of Communism: Crimes, Terror, Repression
When it was first published in France in 1997, Le livre noir du Communisme touched off a storm of controversy that continues to rage today.”

Yes, primarily because it downplays Nazi crimes, and exaggerates “Communist crimes”, often with faulty methodology or logic- if not both. It is telling, for example, how all the defenders of human rights and the moral guardians of life suddenly stop counting deaths once socialism in Europe disappeared entirely. If we used the methodology they use to calculate their ridiculously high death tolls, we could easily claim the 9 million males have been killed in the former USSR since 1991.

” Even some of his contributors shied away from chief editor Stéphane Courtois’s conclusion that Communism, in all its many forms, was morally no better than Nazism; the two totalitarian systems, Courtois argued, were far better at killing than at governing, as the world learned to its sorrow.”

And they are wrong. How bout that. The equation of Nazism with Communism has been around for a long time, but it has become especially useful to the European bourgeoisie. In the West, they want to take back the social reforms won by the workers’ movement after WWII. In the East, the leadership has failed to deliver the paradise they promised under capitalism and separatism. In the midst of the current crisis, it is necessary that fascism be rehabilitated, though not so blatantly. The solution is simple- re-write history so the Nazis and Communists are the same, and then imply that the latter were actually worse than the former.

The point was merely to show (though I could have looked for better examples) how the ‘left vs. right’ argument about hate, violence and racism is a blanket farce of politics as usual. They all serve one master and that is the ‘COIN’. To quote Oswald Spengler: “There is no proletarian, not even a Communist movement, that has not operated in the interests of money, and for the time being permitted by money – and that without the idealists among its leaders having the slightest suspicion of the fact.”

I would also be very curious to hear you expound on the nexus between the growth of capitalist economies and the flow of precious metals from Asia to the West toward the end of the colonial era.

It is not a question of being good or bad, it is a question of being understandable. Personally I don’t judge things by their content of “hate”, but rather the ideology their are espousing.

” Are you also saying Germans had no justification to hate Communists?”

Considering how many Germans were Communists and the majority of people in any given country are workers- no.

” How about the Ukrainians having a hate on for Communists,”

Except Ukrainians don’t hate Communists, only the Western Ukrainian nationalists and liberal lackeys of the West. Ukrainians fought hard to establish and defend their Soviet republic, so they would have nobody to hate but themselves.

” Would that satisfy this groups mission to stamp out expressions of hatred without discrimination? I don’t think so. Instead, I will get another history lesson from an ideological partisan.”

I don’t recall this article demanding that the book be suppressed. The function of this site seems to be little more than exposing certain fringe beliefs in American society.

Geico Cancels a Hater
Many of these orchestrated attacks were launched in the days leading up to our September 12th Taxpayer March on Washington. Where was the moral outrage when we received a bomb threat on September 11th? “There’s a f***ing bomb in your building, bitch,” the caller said. Then, did the media write stories about how the Democrats and their hard left adjuncts had gone too far with their threats, their hate, their racism?
http://biggovernment.com/tag/left-wing-violence/

Don’t like Dr. George Tiller? Grab your gun and shoot him.
Don’t like gay people? Beat one up and leave him on a fence to die.
Don’t like Moveon.org? Shove a rep from there down and stomp on her head.
Don’t like Muslims? Go catch a cab ride in NY and stab one.
Don’t like black people? Drag one from behind a truck for miles after beating him.

You could fill books with instances where far fight ideology has led to bloodshed, and this book seems to be trying to egg on that type of “if you don’t agree with them, kill them” behavior. It’s disgusting and pathetic that collegiate profs are applauding this book as some kind of epic novel rather than the racist slop/sludge/tripe that it is. I think that is what people should be concerned about, not getting into long-winded debates about Nazis.

I could drag out tons of Jewish, Communist, Nazi, Fascist expressions of hate, racism, bigotry toward nearly everyone. Would that satisfy this groups mission to stamp out expressions of hatred without discrimination? I don’t think so. Instead, I will get another history lesson from an ideological partisan.

“Whites naturally have an innate derision for those not of our kind…same goes for every other race on this globe.”

Nope, no they don’t judging by centuries of mixing between “whites”(a term that didn’t even appear to describe a ‘race’ until the late 16th century, coming into usage more commonly in the late 17th), and “non-whites”. Moreover this assertion of racial hatred does not naturally exist in other “races” either judging by their long history of cultural sharing and mixing.

Take one group of people, the Turks. Their culture has been heavily influenced by that of the Mongols, Persians, Chinese, Arabs, Eastern Slavs, Africans, and Balkan Europeans. That is just one ethnicity. So your theory just got shot to pieces.

That leads us to Rene’s question. First off, Inglourious Basterds is typical Tarantino crap. If Tarantino hates, aside from black people, it’s not stealing ideas from other films and pasting them together into a long, drawn out collection of shout-outs and violence.

Next, Ehrenburg and Simonov- yes, they had hatred, but it was damned well justified. Unlike Russians or Ukrainians under German occupation, white folks in America have a great life according to all known statistics.

So to answer my question simply: were the examples we discussed here not all expressions of hate in one form or another?

“And your point Ruslan is that this material from Ehrenburg and whomever is not hate? That a movie script like Inglorious Basterds is not hate? How is it different from the racist hate novel? ”

First off, let’s compare a few things here. Russians, Belorussians, and Ukrainians didn’t NEED Ehrenburg’s(or anyone elses) propaganda to hate the Germans and want revenge. The behavior of Germans in the Eastern Front was inhuman. I suggest you read about the Commissar Order and the Jurisdiction order some time. Even today the numbers of civilian casualties on the Eastern Front has been revised even higher. New evidence has been discovered about atrocities that were rarely if ever mentioned before during the Soviet period, most notably Germany’s sex trafficking involving Belorussian, Ukrainian, Russian, and Polish girls.

Rapes of Soviet girls on the Eastern front were reported in the early months of 1941, and because the Jurisdictional order declared that German military personnel would not be prosecuted for crimes including rape, murder, and theft. Thus they kept no records. By contrast, the Red Army drafted an order that rape would be punished by execution, and while this order was often ignored by local commanders, plenty of eyewitnesses and archival reports show that this sentence was often carried out.

Now do you understand what the Ukrainians, Russians, and Belorussians(incidentally, 1 in 3 Belorussian citizens died during the war) were thinking once they arrived on German territory? Was Ehrenberg responsible for the German behavior that preceded this?

So that was the source of “hatred” amongst the Red Army soldiers. It does not justify the atrocities which did occur in German territory but it does help us to understand why they happened.

” In the couple examples of race motivated criminality mentioned here obviously hate has to be involved and we have penalties that should fit the crimes, wether of murder, assault or torture. The hate is inconsequential except to the criminal commiting the act. Murder is murder, assault of varying degrees are assault etc.”

Yeah yeah, ok so who has gone out and committed murder,inspired by the very Aryan Tarantino’s craptacular Inglourious Basterds? And by the way, while the film is supposedly about killing Nazis, because of Tarantino’s short attention span we see the Basterds in action a grand total of TWO times- one and a half really, the only actual ambush scene lasting a couple seconds.

“Now who really should care what politics or ideology is writing hateful, sadistic, violent, prejudicial material. Is this some sort of contest? Until that hate is acted upon, it is just as much fantasy as any other violent materials, movies….”

Ok so you tried to claim that Ehrenburg’s “hate”(which in fact was just echoing and often repeating what Russians, Ukrainians, and other Soviet citizens were either saying or writing), inspired atrocities in Europe. So if someone reads this book and commits and eerily similar murder- will you condemn it?

I appeal to your sense of decency here.
Please look into your heart here & ask yourself this:
If you saw a little girl drowning and would immediately jump into the water to save her regardless of her race or ethnicity – I deeply doubt you are a bigot.

On the other hand if you would watch her drown with a sense of satisfaction; enjoying her fear & suffering becasue of her race or ethnicity, that’s another story.

Politics is an ugly, selfish “business”. Separate the “politics” from your sense of self.
There will be bigots and fools who “piggy-back” their vile hate on the back of popular politics. Be very aware of them; for they will use your sense of inequity to their ends.
I have learned to hold politics in contempt because the first aim of a politician is to get themselves re-elected – not to serve the country.
Very, very few have more than a thread of concern for our well-being.The only person we can really depend upon is ourselves to do what’s right for our community.

Realizing inequity is natural and self-preservative but do not be taken in by the appeal to divisiveness [on either "side"]. Hold yourself at a much higher level & recognize ALL sides of the political spectrum for what they are: selfish. Selfish – if they cannot work together for the betterment of the country that they SHOULD be serving to their highest ability.

If in the deepest part of your heart holds tenderness and compassion for those who are weaker or need your help; treasure that. Because that is what makes you a truly stronger man. Do not be exploited.
But do not shut down the kindness that is part of the soul of the truly powerful.
Separate yourself from the petty bullshit that is the hallmark of the political manipulation.
Neither “Right” nor “Left” is “correct”. They are simply labels that were invented by a marketing scheme that has existed for generations to milk the the public of a vote or money.

If what I’m saying has appeal to you; know that there are others that think the same way. Walk your own path & don’t be conned into the horseshit of either “side”. And always be wary of the Hate-monger or the Utopian who has all the answers; we all know life’s too complicated for that. And life is too fucking short to be wrapped in hate & fear instead of compassion & discernment. Leave the Hate for the chump & the weakling.

“So then, you agree that what the republicans/tea party members are publicly saying about the prez is racially motivated?”

No, what they’re saying is politically motivated. For more than a century, every president has been despised by the opposing party. If a white person with Obama’s stance on the issues was in the White House, I doubt the republicans would like him.