The Hatewatch blog is managed by the staff of the Intelligence Project of the Southern Poverty Law Center, an Alabama-based civil rights organization.

Who is Jared Lee Loughner?

By Mark Potok on January 9, 2011 - 6:15 pm, Posted in Extremist Crime, Patriot Groups

Is Jared Lee Loughner, the alleged mass murderer who shot U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords of Arizona, a right-wing extremist?

Jared LoughnerIt’s hard to say. When you look at the Internet material he purportedly produced, the first impression you get is that the 22-year-old now in custody for the shooting of 20 people in Tucson was completely out of his mind, or at least mildly deranged. His writings will be virtually impossible for most people to understand, what with his runs of unexplained numbers, his fondness for weird syllogisms, his mysterious references and his apparent semi-literacy.

That said, there are some clues.

At one point, Loughner refers disparagingly to “currency that’s not backed by gold or silver.” The idea that silver and gold are the only “constitutional” money is widespread in the antigovernment “Patriot” movement that produced so much violence in the 1990s. It’s linked to the core Patriot theory that the Federal Reserve is actually a private corporation run for the benefit of unnamed international bankers. So-called Patriots say paper money — what they refer to with a sneer as “Federal Reserve notes” — is not lawful.

At another, Loughner makes extraordinarily obscure comments about language and grammar, suggesting that the government engages in “mind control on the people by controlling grammar.” That’s not the kind of idea that’s very common out there, even on the Internet. In fact, I think it’s pretty clear that Loughner is taking ideas from Patriot conspiracy theorist David Wynn Miller of Milwaukee. Miller claims that the government uses grammar to “enslave” Americans and offers up his truly weird “Truth-language” as an antidote. For example, he says that if you add colons and hyphens to your name in a certain way, you are no longer taxable. Miller may be mad as a hatter, but he has a real following on the right.

Loughner talks about how you “can’t trust the government” and someone burns a U.S. flag in one of the videos attributed to him. Although certain right-wing websites are already using that (and his listing of The Communist Manifesto as one of his favorite books) to claim that Loughner was a “left-winger,” that does not strike me as true. The main enemy of the Patriot movement is certainly the federal government. And so-called Patriots have certainly engaged in acts like burning the flag.

Finally, I think Loughner’s reading list, although it included children’s books and a few classics, had an underlying theme — the individual versus the totalitarian state. Certainly, that’s the explicit central theme of Ayn Rand’s We the Living and Orwell’s 1984 and Animal Farm, among others.  I would argue that that’s the way Loughner seems to be reading The Communist Manifesto and Hitler’s Mein Kampf — as variants of a kind of generalized “smash the state” attitude.

Chip Berlet of Political Research Associates, which does similar work to that of Hatewatch, points out in a post earlier today that Loughner also makes a reference to a “second American constitution.” As Chip notes, that is commonly understood to refer to the Reconstruction amendments that freed the slaves and gave them citizenship, among other things. Chip says that “raises the question of a possible racist and anti-immigrant tie” in the Arizona shooting.

On top of that, Fox News is reporting on an internal Department of Homeland Security message suggesting some tie between Loughner and American Renaissance, a kind of white-collar racist group.

I can’t speak to those allegations, although a federal official in a position to know gave me some details that made it clear the alleged link to American Renaissance appears very weak. Outside of what Chip pointed out, I didn’t see anything that suggested racial, anti-Semitic or anti-immigrant animus in Loughner’s writings. Certainly, there’s nothing I saw at all reminiscent of American Renaissance, which focuses heavily on the alleged intellectual and psychological inferiority of black people.

At this early stage, I think Loughner is probably best described as a mentally ill or unstable person who was influenced by the rhetoric and demonizing propaganda around him. Ideology may not explain why he allegedly killed, but it could help explain how he selected his target.

One thing that seems clear is that Giffords, who was terribly wounded but survived, was the nearest and most obvious representative of “the government” that Loughner could find. Another is that he likely absorbed some of his anger from the vitriolic political atmosphere in the United States in general and Arizona in particular. Perhaps no one made that point better than Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik, speaking to a press conference yesterday. “When you look at unbalanced people, how they respond to the vitriol that comes out of certain mouths about tearing down the government… The anger, the hatred, the bigotry that goes on in this country is getting to be outrageous and unfortunately Arizona has become sort of the capital. We have become the mecca for prejudice and bigotry.”

  • Lora Singer

    How is this situation different in essence than the Tiller murder. O’Reilly of Fox Entertainment called him a “baby killer” and that he should die. Fruitcake went out and killed the doctor.

    That kind of instigation coupled with an unstable viewer leads to the same kind of result – In one case the Tiller murder, in the other the attempted murder of Gabrielle Giffords.

  • Africanus Germanicisus Julianus

    Everything you’ve said or pointed out about Jared Loughner, and the kinds of activists you think he was listening to and then emulating, proves that these so-called Ultra-Right-Wingers are really just the opposite of what these people who listen to them think they are; and that these Ultra-Right Wingers are really just they very same Totalitarians who they say they despise (“Truth-Language” – Really! Obviously “1984” was NOT on either of these ignorant, racist dolts reading lists!).
    Like Hitler, in his “Beer Hall Coup”, they are manipulating the kinds of ignorant, listless, jobless, hopeless parts of our society – by exploiting their ignorance, and inflaming their resentments – so that they will march blindly into their own Complete Politcal Enslavement; all of it in “The Name of Liberty” and “The Greater Good of Our Beloved Motherland”…..when, in fact, they are largely a bunch of people who couldn’t win an election; and not because they wouldn’t “play ball” with the local or national fascist who fund things like campaigns, but because they scared people away with their ignorance and/or radicalism and/or because they’re an obvious Nut-Job; and they resent that – so they go on the radio, write a book, and present themselves and their whack-job story and/or ideas to people who’re too ignorant of History (which DOES repeat itself – and you can only prepare for that, by knowing it) to see through to what these kinds really are.
    If these people are “Real Americans” – then have them tell me THIS: Why did Ben Franklin not only highly approve of – but also personally print counterproofed notes of – Fiat Money?!?
    Yes, Puppies, A “Founding Father” wanted that.
    Oh – and stop wearing MY Flag! That “Don’t Tread On Me” Flag ) I made that in the second grade; and it pisses me off to see such a bunch of dolts acting like not paying ANY taxes is what thats all about.
    Another “Founding Father”, George Washington, should’a already set you straight on that – if you’d actually Read a Whole Book about Him, and weren’t really all just ignorant cranks – when he Crushed The Whiskey Rebellion; and crushed it with Troops he Personally Mustered!

  • Jerry Brandt

    You sure bent all the corners and rounded all the edges to reach out miles to paste this screwball as a right winger. In your views Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid better watch their backs.

  • Douglas Holbert

    Why would one listen to the radio or watch any tv program which one clames they preach love, hate and discontent; if one is offended at what they see, hear, or watch. Turn it off or go to another frequency.
    Too many are offended at the drop of the hat. Getting up in the morning before they have their first cup of coffee. Driving to work. Dealing with the public.
    Folks, it is not going to get any better. More trouble is on the horizon because of the uncertainty in everyday live to too many. When pushing one into a corner, one has three choices.

  • George Sidoti

    Whether or not Jared Loughner is mentally/emotionally unstable will be decided by the courts (forensic medicine). The main question must be…How did we get to this point in time where violence against anyone else becomes a statement or accepted by any group?

    It is time to seriously address the issues that are confronting many people in this nation without trying to over analyze, or paper over, acts of violence.

    Is reading how corporate executives afford themselves millions of dollars in yearly bonuses while veterans go homeless fueling a politically motivated “Patriot” ideology. Is the spilling over of the drug wars south of our border challenging many who live and work in the Arizona communities to seek quick fixes against the violence of drug cartels. Questions… Questions… ? ? ?

    It is time for an open congressional hearing to be aired on national television regarding people who feel threatened. We should not sweep the Jared Loughner’s of the world under the rug or make them celebrities, or hero’s, for any movement that threatens our nation. We are an open society that protects freedom of speech and all other First Amendment rights. U.S. Congresswoman Giffords was expressing her right to be heard and the right of the people to listen and interact.

    There should be no place for anyone to ever threaten anyone else from speaking. As New York City Mayor Fiorello LaGuardia once stated, “we must let these rats speak” when confronted in the 1930’s with a Nazi movement scheduled to rally in New York’s Madison Square Garden. We cannot interfere with the freedoms we all enjoy, even when we disagree. But, there should be no room for anyone to interfere with those freedoms by promoting or threatening violence against anyone else.

    Let’s end the hatred and violence. Let the televised congressional hearings begin…ASAP.

  • A Perez

    And it seems to be ignored that he also chose a Jewish person to assassinate. His shaved head may only be a “cleansing” in his mind or it could be a sympathetic gesture to skinheads. There are certainly many deranged people who believe Jews control the world.

    Perhaps the opportunity to take out a Liberal Government official, who was also Jewish, and her supporters, was the perfect target for the statement he was trying to make.

  • ruben

    gbuddha2012 you are exactly right!’s bad enough that they are rabble rousing with there speech but they are getting paid for it!…you can bet the rhetoric coming from fox and the right is not gonna stop anytime some….they are making too much money from it.and one other thing the owner of fox is from australia which makes him a immigrant/foreigner to this land and look how much division he has created in this country.isn’t his news station the ones crying the loudest to deport immigrants that are negative influences to our country.if murdoch were just your typical immigrant and he be out on the street corner preaching the” crosshairs on your political opponent and be armed and dangerous” rhetoric that he allows on his station he would been deported a long time ago as a threat to this nation.with his billions he has chosen to tear the country apart from within.

  • Douglas Holbert

    Now that the coverup has started to mask the political correctness groups. We are in a pickle. When an unstable individual is allowed to be egnored when so much evidence was available and no official reports were made to the authorities to get this individual the help he needed, the results of this situation materialized. Now the blame game begins. Too many have jumped to conclusions which can not be backed up with FACTS. This is a classic case in psychology studies. Too bad the people with whom he came in contact did NOTHING !!!!! Because they did not want to get involved. Personal profile comes to mind. So sad it has come to this when he has been right in our face.
    May GOD help us that this never happens again. But others are in the shadows just waiting to make their move when the time is right and we lest expect it. He had a PLAN to do harm.

  • Gary Hughes

    have you considered the ranting writings and compair with the Williams Brothers from Shasta County. They too were extreem right wing with very odd writings.

  • constance kosuda

    this man had received a diagnosis of “paranoid schizophrenia” – was kicked out of college for disturbing behavior, and then taken home to his parents – apparently, he did not get help – this is a common phenomenon –
    mental health services are not adequate, throughout the US, and this is the result.
    really tired of the “nut job” and “wacko” terms employed even on MSNBC – where Mark sometimes speaks –
    NAMI and other groups are remarkably silent – they are corporate run groups as well – not the ‘advocates’ they purport to be – where is there outrage?
    I have been on the Board of several mental health organizations, most of them national, and it is a shame how weak and cowardly they are when tragedies strike –
    the University President who spoke last night in Tucson before Pres. Obama, should, I believe, be held to account for his failure to make sure the young man got help – kicking him out of school did not absolve him of responsibility to the community. We see the results.
    As he was obviously a threat to others, and possibly himself, the police, his parents, the school, et als, should have gotten him involuntarily committed for at least a few days – ignoring these problems don’t make them go away.

  • Snorlax

    I love how the Right are trying to distance themselves from this guy, after their side has spewed hate speech on TV and radio for close to two decades.

    The shooter was a registered Republican.

  • Snorlax

    Remember that anti-abortion website that targeted clinics?

    It was taken off the Internet after some whacko followed up on their suggestions and murdered a doctor.

    This is the same sort of thing with the AZ shooter.

    When Palin said “Don’t regroup…reload”, most people didn’t take her literally.

    This whacko did.

  • ruben

    you know it will be hard to ever find out what drove this person to commit the crimes he did,but you cannot ignore the fact that the poisonous atmosphere that this person was living in was not the final straw that drove him over the edge….if you live in a negative environment you cannot expect positive things to happen….that’s just the bottom line.hate is a powerful emotion that can consume even the most educated let alone a deranged person….with the oppressive laws that the present government in arizona has chosen to enact you cannot expect anything productive in terms of human relations to happen in that state… will continue to be a breeding ground of bad karma.

  • gbuddha2012

    Question? If FOX NEWS keeps on paying Palin, Beck, and the others hundreds of millions of dollars knowing full well that their speech has been directly or indirectly linked to violence, then what liability do they have for any future acts that their employees have causality to. This is not a matter of free speech – this is a matter of paid for speech that leads to violence. My mother always told me that if I break something, I’ve gotta pay for it.

  • gbuddha2012

    Rightwing media is funded by about 1-2 billion dollars a year… murdoch, koch’s bros, wall street, etc. People like loughner become witting and unwitting shock troops for their agenda.

  • Ruslan Amirkhanov

    To be honest even I think that the Palin-Loughner link is rather ridiculous, and it is precisely that which makes it all the more suspicious that this kind of talk and uproar in the mainstream (supposedly librul) media didn’t take place half-a-dozen times in the past two years on any of the far more credible examples of right wing violence. For example, the guy who wanted to shoot up a Tides Foundation office and claimed Glenn Beck was his “teacher”(calling Beck a “teacher” seems to be a hallmark of many morons). There’s a solid link yet….nothing.

    Now we don’t even know if this guy even saw that Palin poster, or if he listened to those pundits regularly(as a conspiracy devotee, he probably spent most of his time listening and reading material from other conspiracy nuts). It’s almost as if the media is deliberately crying “wolf” on this tenuous link, so as to discredit the whole idea.

  • skinnyminny

    I take it from your comments you’re not a rhinestone cowboy! LOL!

    Let’s see here! Do you even recognize the anger that is being exhibited here towards the left?

    Let’s try it this way. Let’s examine this in a simple way. Do you notice how almost every picture or broadcast of the right – they always have a frown/growl look on their face. They tend to smile when they have won, or they are doing something to bring harm to people. With the left, the smile when then have won, but also when they have done something good for the people.

    And you know what, I rather have potsmoking people that know how to chill, than people who obviously have to take but haven’t taken some sort of substance to calm their nerves/control their behavior. No insults here, just trying to keep it real!

  • Charles Griswold

    Jared Loughner is indeed a complete nutter. That alone does not explain what he did. As some have correctly pointed out, mental illness is more likely to make one a victim than a violent criminal. For instance, people with major depression (like me) are far more likely to hurt themselves than to hurt someone else.

    However, it is also true that *certain types* of mental illness do, indeed, predispose one to violent acts. Jared wasn’t just a nutter, he was a violent, paranoid delusional nutter. That doesn’t excuse what he did; we may realize why rabid dogs are dangerous, but we still don’t tolerate them.

  • John Molina

    Limbo cheese and Inanity are in complete denial. Loughner was NOT living in a vacuum.

  • gbuddha2012


    i’ve had my own personal confrontations with racists and the far right over the years… i know where you’re coming from

  • gbuddha2012

    “Sarah Palin’s got me in her crosshairs” — gabby giffords

  • gbuddha2012

    In another life i was a libertarian and i can tell you that i knew at least one prominent libertarian (name witheld) who studied mein kampf for tactics and style as much as he studied rand or murray rothbard… enough said

  • skinnyminny

    Jared Paxhefsky,

    I’ve noticed this – Jared Evan Pachefsky and now there’s Jared Paxhefsky.

    At any rate, some of us on the left know what’s up. This is a complete repeat of Hubert H. Humphrey. Oh, btw, some of us are already up on it and showing the dvd “Hubert H. Humphrey The Art of Possible,” at little gatherings.

    We know that is why the right is banking on winning the 2012 election. Everything that is happening now (was part of Humphrey losing to Nixon), the war, demonizing minorities, hunger/poverty/unemployment, protesters beaten/arrested by police, elected officials/candidates threatened and killed, manipulating voters – wearing down democratic voters, GOP telling businesses that they can deny services to blacks because it would violate private property rights (this was Thurmon then, but looks like Rand Paul now)… Yes, Humphrey was brilliant and famous for legislation for civil rights, for that, he is one of my heros.

  • skinnyminny


    thanks for your comments about skulls and satanism. I think the problem here is because some of the people from the right leaves, what some would say, confusing signs behind, it’s hard to tell.

    It’s not hard to tell. Mr. Stack from Dallas did the same thing, leaving conflicting telltale signs. Yet, if you look at how some of the rightwingers come here and post name-calling, derogatory comments at us, it’s no wonder they leave signs like this. They also leave behind signs that confuse SOME people, because they do read, study, and harass, and in some cases stalk the left.

  • gbuddha2012

    Silly rightwinger… kos use of “target” and “bullseye” don’t riff off palin rhetoric in either tone or venom. palin rhetoric was red hot issue in giffords election… sorry, nice try

  • gbuddha2012

    Silly rightwinger — Obama was quoting a line from “the untouchables” … far from embracing he was ridiculing that kind of mentality

  • gbuddha2012

    skulls and satanism are very much part of the racist right… look @ the imagery @ stormfront and vnn —

  • gbuddha2012

    For God’s sake david icke believes jews are satanic space beings !@#$

  • gbuddha2012

    I met alex jones once and found him to be full of shit… imho

  • gbuddha2012

    Nothing could be clearer that loughner is a wack job and psycho. However to leave it at that ignores the question of who or what lit the fuse. From his videos, writings, and testimonies of people who knew him there is a description of someone who is anti-authoritian, hyper-constitutional, obsessed with mind control and language, anti-abortion, a gold bug, & influenced by the writings of strong figures like ayn rand and hitler. A friend describes him as a libertarian who was socially liberal. Some reports mention a racist connection (still unverified), others mention the “communist manifesto” as one of his favorite books (not really a book) – which is about the only thing “leftist” in his whole profile. So there are the dots to connect.

  • Ruslan Amirkhanov

    “I’m not a leftist, but I respect REAL LEFTISTS, I’m a libertarian and Alex Jones is an interesting guy, who actually predicted 9-11 in July of 2001, and stated “the government will blame Al Queda”.

    Ok I got some bad news for you. I don’t think you know what a “real leftist is”. As for Alex Jones’ “prediction”, I’d like to see it, verbatim. See just recently I was reading this graphic novel written before the first WTC bombing and it “predicted” that the WTC would be destroyed completely.

    “Sure Jones is making a ton of money, so are the people who feed you DNC talk points, your heros Ed Schultz, Rachel Maddow, Olberman, Rand Rhodes, Tom Hartman, all making money posing as fake leftists, who are really DNC hacks.”

    The nice thing about “DNC hacks” is that for all their faults, they do actually check their facts from time to time. Alex Jones just says whatever the hell comes into his Tourette’s adled mind at the moment. People like him have been “predicting” martial law, total financial collapse, and a world government for in some cases 30 years or more. Jones doesn’t even have a clue as to how the Federal Reserve works. It’s not hard to look something like that up. And if Jones’ has some secret source as to how the Fed “really” works, then it’s on him to explain just how the hell he got his hands on it.

  • Jared Paxhefsky

    I’m not a leftist, but I respect REAL LEFTISTS, I’m a libertarian and Alex Jones is an interesting guy, who actually predicted 9-11 in July of 2001, and stated “the government will blame Al Queda”. Sure Jones is making a ton of money, so are the people who feed you DNC talk points, your heros Ed Schultz, Rachel Maddow, Olberman, Rand Rhodes, Tom Hartman, all making money posing as fake leftists, who are really DNC hacks.

    Sorry, anyone who calls for censorship of political speech is not a leftist bt rather a DNC hack, desperate to shut down opposition
    The fake-left has been pushing for censorship since the day Obama became president. The fake-left lost their base, lost the independents and have nothing left to do but censor, and demonize all with different views. Why?
    Obama has been exposed as a Wall Street Bankster, and most who voted for him get it. It’s not the tea parry, it’s not talk radio, it’s the Democratic party, lying to their base.
    As a libertarian I reject monopoly capitalism, the Dems are no differen than the GOP, both prop up monopolies and the banking business. All the screaming about Palin in the world will not stop America from rejecting Goldman-Obama-Sachs

  • Ruslan Amirkhanov

    Paxhefsky, I don’t see how you could pretend to be a leftist when you support right-wing populist nutcases like Alex Jones. Alex Jones is making money off gullible people who want to feel like they really know what’s going on.

  • Ruslan Amirkhanov

    “The guys favorite books included the communist manifesto and and Mien Kampf. He was a liberal. He was clearly deranged and clearly one of your own dope smoking left wing illiterate nutjobs. But that is difficult to explain to fellow nutjobs, ”

    Hold on a sec Cowboy…was he just deranged or was he really a liberal? Oh and we know how much liberals just LOOOOVE Mein Kampf and The Communist Manifesto. That was brilliant. I can’t believe you actually typed that and posted that on a public forum. In case you hadn’t heard, his OTHER favorite books were Animal Farm, 1984, To Kill a Mockingbird, and supposedly he liked Ayn Rand as well.

    Clearly his tastes were eclectic, to say the least. And yet in your boundless ignorance, you proclaim him a liberal. Brilliant.

    Somehow, some way you can ignore the facts and blame the teaparties. Is it any wonder there is such a climate in this country?”

  • Jared Paxhefsky

    Does it really matter that the kid read conspiracy writers like David Icke (who is fascinating if you bothered to read him)? It is evident that the psuedo-left such as SPLC, are using this as an opportunity to demonize those who have different views and do not trust the government. The psuedo-left did not trust the government for 8 years when the neo-liberal (identical to Clinton and Obama) Bush was president. Now a “D” is in charge and mysteriously the “left” is all trusting the government and trying to demonize everyone from Palin (neo-liberal, no different than Obama, but has a an “R” next to her name), Glen Beck (entertainer), Rush Limbaugh (moronic main stream Republican hack), David Icke (researcher on clandestine groups such as the Bilderberg group), Alex Jones (libertarian radio host and who’s sites infowars and prisonplanet are more widely read than most psudeo liberal blogs such as this and Think Progress), Ron Paul (traditional anti-war conservative) and basically anyone who is not a card carrying main stream Obama supporter.

    When an unstable person is fed a lot of information, the results can be deadly, much as when a sexual deviant watches pornography all day ( most rapists and serial killers have been known to watch endless streams of pornography), the end result are violent sex crimes.

    I don’t see the left calling for a ban on pornography, after crimes are comitted, yet hours after the shooting, the left has bee calling for bills to be written to stop “political hate speech”, in other words use this opportunity to shut down both main stream hacks like Palin and Limbaugh, and people who prvide a viewpoint that is not so much left or right (AlexJones,Paul, Icke)…. The DNC, corporatist-left is losing their mind, because they lost their base when Obama started bailing out billionaire bankers, and writing bills which do nothing but make monopolies stronger, the Health Care Bill is nothing but an insurance company bailout (most objective democrats know this), The Food safety act, was designed to make Monstanto stronger and stomp out small food producers(the thinking left and right know this). The mainstream DNC corporatist left is infuruated that people are no longer playing the “D” good, “R” bad game and people like Alex Jones are taken more seriously every single day, hence they want to use this opportunirty to wipe out mainstream political opposition (Palin and dittoheads) and the growing truther/libertarian movement (Icke, Paul, Jesse Ventura, Alex Jones).. It is not 2008 anymore, nobody trusts the corporatist Obama and his monopoly banker-Wall Street agenda… Everyday thousands more are ignoring DNC hacks like Olberman and the Obama crowd, they are losing their mind, and will use any opportutinty to silence opposition by drawing links to their political opposition andf this tragedy.
    and SPLC is obviously part of the banking cabal, as this writer, immedaty tried to tie those who are against the Federal Reserve to being crazy… People on the left and right are interested in an audit of the private bank who controls our economy :The federal reserve… Sending Obama to wave fingers at Wall Street is no longer working, we all know he is a Wall Street and banking industry president. So frustrating for the corporatist-“change” crowd, when the public wakes up and rejects the false reality you create

  • George A. Wojtowycz

    Le Mur:

    Loughner was the unstable element upon which Palin, Limbaugh, Beck & Co. carelessly threw their burning matches and sparklers on like confetti.

  • George A. Wojtowycz

    When TPE III came to Syracuse, NY, there were “Second American Revolution” flags all over Clinton Square. Along with the Obama as The Joker signs and what not. The S.A.R. flags were Old Glory with a gold roman numeral 2 in a gold circle in the middle. Anyone see that?

  • Roze

    The SPLC has an agenda, and I don’t trust ANY supposed “journalists” with agendas, you shouldn’t either. This is willful ignorance and it needs to stop. The guy was incapable of having any logical political views whatsoever. He’s so out there that his professor even thought he may have had Tourette’s syndrome. Read for yourself people, stop trusting just “anyone” because you know you’re going to “agree” with them. Are you that afraid of your own beliefs shifting a bit? …..

  • Le Mur

    Who is Jared Lee Loughner?

    The vapid conjecture & falsehoods here clearly tell us what you HOPED he was … so that you could hate him all the more.

  • Nik Mendota

    Since we now know more about Loughner–including the fact that he had been stalking Giffords since 2007 based on a perceived PERSONAL affont, I think you should feel embarrassed at having tried so hard to mold this tragedy into a political bonus for the left. Shame on you!

    To play your game, I guess I’d say you’re following Obama’s advice to “bring a gun” to the fight if the right brings a knife. Or perhaps you are “punching back twice as hard”. Yeah, violent rhetoric causes all kinds of horrors….


  • BC

    well, most of your story is right except that the Federal Reserve IS a private entity, NOT a government entity. Do your research………..otherwise, well written.

  • clarissa

    He also sounded as if some of his rhetoric (in the flag burning video) came from David Icke, particularly when he speaks of a scaled bird. Icke is most known as a Conspiracy Theorist who believes in the Illuminati stuff, NWO, and that reptiles that no one can see govern the earth. This last part strikes me. Also, the allusion to a “new bird on my right shoulder” — which is tied into his earlier videos and seems to continue his currency-knowledge-via-the-Internet symbology — is the supposed “key” to understanding his ideology. Of course, the notion of a right wing comes to mind at once. I’m inclined to agree with your analysis in full, and also to suggest that it’s more coherent than people acknowledge. He seems to be drawing from a lot of pop cultural underground notions really endemic to counterculture in the West Coast, many of which do wind up seeming contrary because they are primarily bound up in reactionary, anti-authoritarian views. I’d previously volunteered in a radical book library/infospace and recognize which views he does not hold, which are far Leftist. He does not show any evidence of the political concerns of a Communist, a Maoist, a typical Anarchist, an Anarcho-Syndicalist, an Anarcho-Socialist, a Socialist, and certainly not those of most Democrats, although he may have previously been a Democrat when in his right mind. I have heard some radical Libertarians speak about his concerns. They also seem to engage more in Conspiracy Theory issues compared with the previously mentioned ideological groups, who generally eschew Conspiracy Theories, with the exception perhaps of some Green Party types. Far Leftists of any political stripe in memory dislike Ayn Rand and tend to view the Constitution with very little interest. The Communist Manifesto, however, was probably something he became interested in through his Political Science course, where Marx would have been a mainstay in all likelihood. So crossover there is of no surprise to me. But aside from that At any rate, I wanted to mention the Icke issue regarding the bird. The bird has barely been mentioned. Nor has his disregard for NASA, as well as his general interest in aliens. Again, I think his ideology is more coherent than many realize, because he’s drawing from a very fringe set of ideas that are outside of mainstream binary politics, yet implicitly skew toward the Right-Libertarian spectrum.

    As a final note, that he refers to the viewers of his youtube videos as “listener” sounds like he’s picking up on radio-speak. I actually wondered if his someone around him was listening to a lot of talk radio which could have simply been integrated in his vernacular. It’s also possible that he acquired some of his political views from movies, since he was obsessed with these. Some of the lucid dreaming has been related to Donnie Darko and A Scanner Darkly. It also sounds a lot like Fight Club to me.

    As a final, final note, flag burning stopped being a “Left” preoccupation in the early 1980’s or so, when punk rock peaked. Since then, I’ve never seen it. However, he seems to view himself as a super-Patriot in that he requests that Youtube video be watched in reverse, which takes the burnt flag and makes it whole again. Many Libertarians are also against the war. And bands are silly things to gauge ideology by. Plus, his are all over the board. Slipknot and Drowning Pool made me initially think he was a “jock.” Sorry to break it to the world, but those bands aren’t liked by radical Leftists to my knowledge. Anti-Flag, sure. Mars Volta. Who doesn’t like Mars Volta?

    I don’t believe he had any formal affiliations with hate groups, but do see how he was influenced by some of their rhetoric. It would have surrounded him in Arizona. He shows no evidence to me of any racism, for what it’s worth, but it’s hard to know given his reclusiveness.

    He had been reported as taking “drugs” and “clinching his fists” some time ago by a friend… Zach. My read there is that he may have been on methamphetamine or even LSD, PCP, or E, because either would have that side effect. And either could cause permanent damage in the long term. I’ve seen people with major residual damage from all. Many are crazy and seem schizophrenic even after the drug is no longer being taken (particular with LSD and PCP, and possibly E from what I’ve heard). Some are semi-functional but may remain paranoid, withdrawn, and depressed.

  • Cowboyjim

    There sure are a bunch of lift wing idiots that will believe any crap you post here.

    The guys favorite books included the communist manifesto and and Mien Kampf. He was a liberal. He was clearly deranged and clearly one of your own dope smoking left wing illiterate nutjobs. But that is difficult to explain to fellow nutjobs,

    Somehow, some way you can ignore the facts and blame the teaparties. Is it any wonder there is such a climate in this country?

  • skinnyminny

    Jeb Bush is urging the GOP to court Hispanics. Can you believe these people? They have talked about deportations, anchor babies, English being the predominant language (never mind that Puerto Rico is Spanish speaking islands), having Neo-Nazis hold anti-immigration rallies/marches…and now they want Hispanics to vote for them! Spread the word, I will do as much here is Califas – I think they believe we have forgotten and have short-memories.

  • skinnyminny

    Are you serious? Again, I take it you have no clue about Arizona! Blaming skulls/satanism as not right-wing, perhaps you haven’t heard of some of the rumors in Arizona – Nazis involved in satanism.

    BTW, no one has mentioned Beck’s episode on FOX, showing him at a table drinking wine with a blowup doll that was described as Nancy Pelosi, and that instead of wine it was poison. It is also not being reported due to the incident in Tucson, that Democrats across this country as still receiving suspicious packages and threats.

    I am assuming this is Bag of Donuts, it doesn’t matter how much more you have. Believe me, I have a lot more than you. But, because anyone who talks about the right or their fringe groups tend to get threats lately, I prefer to not engage in your childlike tactics. Childlike, because, I remember as a kid, I did it – “well, he did this…” but it didn’t work. This is not about who can show the most damaging evidence. This is not about Obama. This is about how the right tends to push people over the edge then leave them out to dry.

  • ruben

    skinnyminny i think you are probably right…i think that maybe it is time for the feds to clean house in is now run like a brutal third world government imposing laws straight out of the middle ages.jan brewer is nothing but a puppet and the far right/neo nazi vermin that have taken over the government there are the ones pulling her strings….arizona will become a breeding ground for mass murderers like loughner being egged on by all the government sanctioned rhetoric and just think many on the right want this mess exported to other states.

  • skinnyminny

    You said that Loughner’s statement, “the police is illegal,” does not point to any specific group! Have you heard of the Sovereign Citizen type groups? Based on what I’ve read, these type groups are NOT liberals.

  • Jared Evan Pachefsky

    This brat worshiped skulls and listened to death metal, why are you not blaming death metal and Satanism? It seems the “left” are using this to score cheap political points, it’s not working

  • Jared Evan Pachefsky

    How can one link the debate regarding the Federal reserve -vs- the Gold Standard to this tragedy? Do you not realize this has been an economic debate for over 70 years? I was even introduced to this topic in Junior High School social studies class. This is not radical, favoring a gold standard is not akin to being a cold blooded murderer either. What is your point? The maniac mumbled something about the Gold standard, so what? I’m sure he ate pizza too, is eating pizza a sign of a ticking time bomb? I favor a gold standard and auditing the Federal reserve, I’m far from a hatemonger, just educated as to our history. The writer has zero credibility, it is embarrassing to try to link a common debate to a murderous Satanist. The kid was a Satanist, and probably pumped up on Anti-depressants, stop blaming political debate and economic debate on this tragedy, it is sickening

  • skinnyminny


    All I can say is, he looks like Glenn Beck without hair! LOL!