Comments on: Enraged by Florida Pastor, Afghan Crowds Kill Foreigners

By: WASP

WASP — Mon, 09 May 2011 06:21:37 +0000

Perhaps David wanted to give the Afghans a lesson in freedom of speech. It sure looks like they need it.

By: MrsCaptJack

MrsCaptJack — Sun, 24 Apr 2011 01:56:27 +0000

I suspect each and everyone of you that says Jones is not responsible has never been part of a mob or part of a mob mentality. Unfortunately, people do horrible things that they never would dream of doing when they become part of a mob. History proves it over and over, sadly so.

I also suspect that any one of you that states the Afghanis were looking to commit murder regardless have never really had a conversation about Islam. That said, in all faiths there are zealots and fanatics. Yet, out of my Muslim friends and my Christian friends, it’s the “Christians” who get worked up about having the only pipeline to God. Funny that.

By: Sam Molloy

Sam Molloy — Thu, 14 Apr 2011 05:12:43 +0000

I aint gonna try it but I heard the really thin paper they use is highly flame resistant.

By: Mitch Beales

Mitch Beales — Wed, 13 Apr 2011 20:42:49 +0000

Concerned Citizen our founding fathers would spit on you as they would on Jones. You are a disgrace.

By: sage

sage — Wed, 13 Apr 2011 16:25:15 +0000

That’s it!

By: sage

sage — Wed, 13 Apr 2011 15:28:29 +0000

Lets burn a few bibles today and see what happens, I bet no one dies. Very disturbing! Inequality at it’s best! Terrorists should be brought to justice! Prejudice ought to be disdained.

By: Ruslan Amirkhanov

Ruslan Amirkhanov — Tue, 12 Apr 2011 21:51:40 +0000

Damn Trotsky, you almost got it right this time. These people had plenty of good reason to riot, and yet stupidly chose a ridiculous justification instead of the dozens of more legitimate reasons.

But alas, with you every silver lining has a cloud- The brutal conditions in Afghanistan have far more to do with the tribal and clan structure than Islam. Turkey, despite the advances made by the AKP regime, is still not nearly as “Islamic” as Afghanistan, yet in the eastern regions of the country where feudal relationships still exist, we see things like honor killings and blood feuds.

By: Nikita Vissarionovitch Trotsky

Nikita Vissarionovitch Trotsky — Tue, 12 Apr 2011 20:14:25 +0000

The reason why Afghans have been going apes**t over the Koran burning is because their incompetent, ultra corrupt president Hamid Karzai needed something that would divert his subjects’ attention away from him and his narco trafficker brother. That, and the fact that Afghanistan also happen to be the most devout Islamic nation in the world, as it is exemplified by the brutal, slave like conditions of Afghan women and Christians (f there are any left alive).

By: Jonas Rand

Jonas Rand — Tue, 12 Apr 2011 07:01:53 +0000

@skinnyminny – No, I’m not offended when the US flag is burned, I’m glad, because that’s what it deserves. I don’t think the incineration of a book, or a flag, or any symbol (that is, except a cross on someone’s lawn, which is offensive because it symbolizes, and with no room for other interpretation, racism with a clear historical context) should be excluded from the first amendment. If you want to be offended, then it’s your personal moral outrage, but it is free speech, and that ought to be taken to the limits. It is not anyone’s responsibility to apologize to prevent a mob of fanatical Taliban from “slay[ing] the pagans” after hijacking a rally. I don’t see why anyone would come out against a Qur’an burning anyway, what do they think will happen, that Holy Gawd! will appear from the heavens and unburn the Qur’an? If it was a rally against US occupation, then, fine, I would actually agree. But why make the Qur’an burning an issue? Religion, rabid nationalism, etc. are totalitarian ideologies and systems, and are bound to generate fanaticism. I do not sympathize with any of them (I am against all nationalism).

By: James

James — Tue, 12 Apr 2011 02:13:57 +0000

Hello all, my first time here.
Is anyone aware that Terry Jones website (http://www.doveworld.org/) utilizes Paypal for their online support?
Why on earth would Paypal facilitate a hate organization such as this?

By: Ruslan Amirkhanov

Ruslan Amirkhanov — Sun, 10 Apr 2011 18:34:26 +0000

Good lord there is so much ignorance in that statement I don’t know where to begin. First of all, Hitler didn’t burn Bibles. Different people in Germany had different feelings about Christianity, but officially Christianity(albeit with pro-Nazi elements) was promoted. While Germans were not generally attacked, Japanese were rounded up and put into camps, many losing their property and businesses. Also, the UN did not exist in 1942- that is to say there were no UN officials to kill.

By: H Gilmer

H Gilmer — Sun, 10 Apr 2011 08:25:32 +0000

When Hitler burned Bibles and killed Jews did we attack Germans and kill them here in America and attack the UN which was started in 1942, hummmm we guess the Muslims are the haters

By: skinnyminny

skinnyminny — Sat, 09 Apr 2011 23:15:25 +0000

Okay,
I understand all sides of this argument. But, let’s take this a step further – let’s look at this in a different angle. How many times do Americans get offended when are country’s flag is burned in that part of the world? How many Americans began to say that they hate us and they are enemies? Where am I going with this? We value our flag…they value certain things as well! The real problem here, most Americans don’t understand or know about the peoples and/or their culture. Personally, I think it is a lack of respect on Jones part, as well as provocation. I also think it is a form of abuse on Jones part – he knew full well, as if in premeditation, what would be the outcome. Look at it this way, Jones had the power to do or not to do what he did. Jones did it as if he intentionally wanted to cause a bad outcome, while using the excuse that he wanted to expose them. Well, that would be similar to something like this – this is just an example, a drug addict needed some money and a highroller wanted to make fun of him and told the drug addict that if he did something like, oh, let’s say, flash uncoming traffic, the highroller would give the addict money for his fix? Or, let’s say a person had a really bad temper, and someone who wanted to expose that person’s temper did something to provoke him!

This is bad business for Jones, regardless if he had a 1st Amendment right or not – to me, it’s an abuse of power, and inciteful behavior, and I consider him to be not only a threat to himself, but others, as was proved at the UN facility.

By: Antonio Perales

Antonio Perales — Sat, 09 Apr 2011 23:04:55 +0000

Sorry, we “Americans” are tribal, get over yourself.

By: Sam Molloy

Sam Molloy — Sat, 09 Apr 2011 13:50:57 +0000

I stand corrected. The precept behind SPLC is busting the organization that promotes violence, when the courts just go after the one or two actual perps. Charles Manson never killed anybody.

By: Mike Menkes

Mike Menkes — Sat, 09 Apr 2011 10:42:06 +0000

scraping the bottom again to find oppression I see….

By: Barbara

Barbara — Fri, 08 Apr 2011 21:36:29 +0000

I have to agree with Mr.Pat Buchanan and his points in his newest article,Tribalism. Read it. We can focus on what we think is irrational and cruel. But in the end, we need to understand our goal is not to bring Democracy to tribes. We are spending our wealth and our children’s lives in South Asia because we helped to build the nuclear program in Pakistan while lying to the American people for 20 years. This is the threat and this is the price we pay for allowing Government to operate without transparency and in secret.

By: Ruslan Amirkhanov

Ruslan Amirkhanov — Fri, 08 Apr 2011 13:10:16 +0000

Uh buz, you DO know what a ‘libertine’ is right?

And you know your comment here is literally shooting the messenger?

By: Sam Molloy

Sam Molloy — Fri, 08 Apr 2011 05:07:10 +0000

Gig is right, people have to be responsible for their actions. Still, that pastor is a nut case.

By: Antonio Perales

Antonio Perales — Thu, 07 Apr 2011 23:45:47 +0000

When I describe to a local cop what people with serious emotional problems have done in the building where I live, he quickly assures me that they are still responsible for a crime, however troubled or “wacko”. The Florida pastor has been quoted as saying that muslims “needed shaking up”, but he refuses responsibility for the deaths incurred. No surprise that his mind is full of religeous “rationales” for his actions. While I support hiring the handicapped I can see that the building manager where I live is way over his head, and seems to share the pastors mindset. He effects a religeous bent, quoting “Christian poetry”, and can never be convinced that he has done wrong, unless it’s if of negligable importance, and rarely even then. This is also referred to as a “pharaonic” personality, someone seriously sanctimonious. After a series of obviously poor choices in building managers, (well-meaning or not so well-meaning recent arrivals to the U.S., with poor language skills and no real knowlege of the culture here, or of it’s institutions), by the owner, a widow rich in property, but uneducated and quite aggressively inhumane, she gave up and handed the building over to a management company, with much the same results, except that she is sheltered now from the fall-out incurred by young male eastern college grads (New England, upstate New York).out for a “California holiday, and little interested in maintaining a safe, sane, sober and peaceful building, or daily delivery of mail. When in early 2004 the latest pick looked, acted and sounded as though he might demonstrate more even handed and thoughtful methods, I made sure to inform him of the then fourteen years of serious abuse by an ignorant, psychotic, and bigoted neighbor. To my dismay they were soon fast friends, both being of the same condition , and both constantly ravenous for friendships and therefor extremely ingratiating. Thereafter my frequent complaints about threats, spitting on my door, incessant curses and theft of anything I left unattended were completely ignored, these things just were “not happening”, I was told, or “I’ll talk to him”,or I was called a liar. When it was evident that neither Adult Protective Services of San Francisco, nor H.R.C., nor the police, nor ACLU could do anything for me, I began efforts to take them to court for a restraining order. The manager began to hold parties for my abuser, his also very cruel and hateful prostitute girl-friend and the woman’s child, therefore empowering them. The abuse escalated to unbelieveble levels and frequency. I got a R.O. on my neighbor, none on the woman, and the managers real estate management boss showed the judge his face and got him off. The abuse continued, and when I called the police I discovered that my case was not “in the computors”, and in any case I was told that “we can’t arrest people for laughing at you, or reapeatedly coughing around you, or frequently banging a shopping cart near your door”-.I went to the Sherrif’s office to correct this failure to enter my case into the system, only to be sent to the courthouse, to be sent to the police station. Only to repeat my efforts a time again. The abuser has somewhat let off, but still occasionally flares up at me, for the usual reason: none. When I left my glasses on a hall window sill, he disappeared them, and I heard him laughing childishly and maniacally about it the next day, after having denied taking them. I am 73 years of age. On not unrelated issues: take my word for it, San Francisco is definitely not a “liberal” city. Think about why the establishment here, or anywhere finds it useful to project this image, and why, and how it serves opponents of social change. Recently a young H.I.V. counselor and worker here from Mexico was happily quoted in the newspaper to the effect that “San Francisco is SO liberal!” I hope to think that my email gave this possibly well-meaning, possibly buttering up his “liberal” bosses, but politically careless and naive person something to think about. As for the Florida pastor he seems to be proof, if anyone needs it, that religeon and ignorance create a form of social “drunken driving”. It is just as well that his “church” is on the economic skids. And, while I am rambling a bit on topics, I agree with Marisa and Ruslan about their Afghan/Pastor Jones perceptions. And I encourage a good look-see into James Peck’s book Ideal Illusions (2010), characterised on the cover as “How the U.S. Government Coopted Human Rights”. There’s plenty on Human Rights Watch, to gain a good perspective about its origins, and seeming versus actual intentions. Saludos.

By: buz thompsom

buz thompsom — Thu, 07 Apr 2011 23:01:50 +0000

why don’t you libertines go burn an american flag. that will make you feel better. the person that is responsible is the guy that told Jones’s story. Had his acts remained unknown no one would have been murdered….

By: Terry Washington

Terry Washington — Thu, 07 Apr 2011 22:31:53 +0000

Whilst in the final analysis, those who killed the UN workers last week in Afghanistan following riots after word of “Rev” Terry Jones’s burning of a Koran are responsible for their acts, for “Rev” Jones to disengenuously adopt an air of “who ,me?” injured innocence(shades of Sarah Palin and her “blood libel” claim after the Tucson massacre) is ludicrous. Jones could NOT have been unaware of what was likely to follow his burning of a Koran( pace the “Danish blasphemous cartoons” controversy, claims of a Koran being desecrated in “Gitmo”);he was warned about this as far back as last September. In moral if not purely legal terms the blood of those men and women(Afghan and foreigner alike) is as much on his hands as it was their killers! I’ve noticed that whenever the American right wing is criticized for inciting or encouraging violence(pace the role”shock jocks” radio commentators such as Rush Limbaugh played in the run up to Tucson), it goes into a “poor us “mode of victimhood. According to US Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, no one has the right to falsely yell “FIRE” in a crowded theatre; precisely what Jones did!

By: THINKWORLDPEACE

THINKWORLDPEACE — Thu, 07 Apr 2011 20:40:26 +0000

Two Wrongs Don’t Make A Right!

“The Times also reported that a prominent Afghan cleric who heads the Ulema Council, an important religious body where the Koran burning was recently discussed, called on American authorities to try Jones as a war criminal. He said that if that did not happen, violence and protests were likely to continue.”

The comment made by Afghan cleric is that he and by extension, his followers live in a vacuum if the response is to try this insensitive Florida pastor as a war criminial for burning the Quran. I do not believe that a message of retaliation raised to the level of murdering innocents is in anyway going to neutralize fears on either side or stop people anywhere in the world from speaking on behalf or in opposition to the Quran. It would seem to me that the best approach the Afghan government could take would be to denounce the acts of murdering innocents and try those responsible for their actions. Until murderous acts against innocents who voice opposition to the Quran are swiftly halted and those responsible brought to justice, the irrational acts will continue unabated.

By: Ruslan Amirkhanov

Ruslan Amirkhanov — Thu, 07 Apr 2011 20:11:47 +0000

Before everyone condemns the allegedly savage Afghans, let us remember that people in Afghanistan have plenty of reasons to want blood whether some kook burns a Quran on the other side of the world or not. In fact it was pretty stupid for these extremists to even bring that up. These murders were brutal but they could have just as easily said this was in retaliation for the thousands of civilians killed by NATO throughout the last ten years.

People are quick to judge those Afghans living in a foreign land, because they apparently got so angry about someone burning a Quran. But NATO has killed far more innocent people in that country, and what is THEIR reason? There is none. In fact they are planning to leave and negotiations with the Taliban have taken place(they are expected to continue in the future as well). So let’s look at the score:

Some Afghans kill some foreigners over a ridiculous publicity stunt in the States: SAVAGES!!!!

NATO uses the world’s most powerful military technology to slaughter people at wedding parties from high above(AKA, like cowards): CIVILIZED! DEMOCRACY! HUMAN RIGHTS(by ‘human rights’ they mean backing a government which endorses spousal rape).

In the end I think the lesson here was best said by Jesus: “You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.”

Connecting this with Jones is the stupid mistake of these enraged murderers. But we should see past that rage to the real source of all this- NATO occupation.

By: Marisa

Marisa — Thu, 07 Apr 2011 18:46:52 +0000

These Afghans killing people in retaliation for Pastor Jones’ book-burning are deplorable – AND SO IS PASTOR JONES. He is the typical extremist Christian who acts extremely NON-Christian-like.

By: Logic

Logic — Thu, 07 Apr 2011 18:44:02 +0000

Holding Jones accountable for the Afghan mob killing folks ! He can be neither morally, criminally nor civily responsible. The fools who let their feelings override their logical senses are to blame…no one else. Holding Jones responsible would be like a kid going on the rampage and flattening all the tires on the city garbage trucks because his parents made him take the trash out everyday abd holding his parents responsible because little Johnnie should not be given trash chores, or tree huggers going on a rampage and holding Loggers responsible because they cut down trees to make boards to build homes. When will this foolishness end and each person be held accountable for their own actions?

By: Coyote Weeps

Coyote Weeps — Thu, 07 Apr 2011 17:41:09 +0000

Excuse the previous typos. Still getting used to tiny keypads.

By: Gary Hunt

Gary Hunt — Thu, 07 Apr 2011 17:40:58 +0000

I find it interesting that Jones is the “bad guy” for burning a Koran. On the other hand, those who would randomly murder, yes, murder, foreigners, are, apparently, standing on higher moral ground than a man who burned paper and ink.
Has political correctness gone so far as to put dead trees above live humans?
Has political correctness gone so far that we must submit, by indignation against one man, to the will of those who would commit indiscriminant murder over paper and ink?
I trust that many of those who have responded will reconsider their position, after considering the ridiculous perspective that they have taken in this matter.

By: Tricia

Tricia — Thu, 07 Apr 2011 17:39:01 +0000

Terry Jones (not a pastor by any stretch of the word) was looking for a reason to burn the Qur’an and the Afghan people/murderers were looking for a reason to kill people. They both found what they were looking for and we all have something else to blame on Islam.

By: Coyote Weeps

Coyote Weeps — Thu, 07 Apr 2011 17:38:49 +0000

So let’s put this into true context. Jones burns islams book and they several dozen people? And yet we are told they killed approx. 3000 of us. Then we have squandered our entire nation’s wealth to use to as of current having killed, or caused the deaths of over 100000 “innocent” Iraqi’s attempted to stea their resources and are still at many years later and yet we are bitching about Islam somehow being more evil than Christianity??? BOTH, like all organized religions are evil because they are based on power and myth having created in their time to keep uneducated populations from questioning their leaders. Here all on both sides of the world have been led into this fight over whose fantasy story is the best??? Damned that is stupid ajnd rather lacking in real morality. Until we ditch all these superstitions and realize that it is up to each and everyone of us to get along with each other these nuts will keep trying to push back to the dark ages.