Comments on: Anti-Muslim Activists Gingerly Deplore Jones’ Koran Burning http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2011/04/04/anti-muslim-activists-gingerly-deplore-jones-koran-burning/ Hatewatch is a blog of the Southern Poverty Law Center Wed, 19 Jun 2013 03:59:42 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Ruslan Amirkhanov http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2011/04/04/anti-muslim-activists-gingerly-deplore-jones-koran-burning/comment-page-1/#comment-279137 Ruslan Amirkhanov Wed, 13 Apr 2011 20:36:37 +0000 http://www.splcenter.org/blog/?p=6150#comment-279137 First of all there was no UN in those days, and the Pagans in question were just as happy to slaughter the early Muslims. There was a war going on. And in case you hadn't heard, nobody elected Osama bin Laden to speak for Muslims, and the school from which his ideology is derived is not recognized by any official school of Islamic jurisprudence. Hence, Jews and Christians are not considered "Pagans" by modern Muslims. Adherents of Osama bin Laden have also been guilty of attacking Shiites, considering them to be polytheists. Obviously this is not a mainstream Islamic view. First of all there was no UN in those days, and the Pagans in question were just as happy to slaughter the early Muslims. There was a war going on.

And in case you hadn’t heard, nobody elected Osama bin Laden to speak for Muslims, and the school from which his ideology is derived is not recognized by any official school of Islamic jurisprudence. Hence, Jews and Christians are not considered “Pagans” by modern Muslims. Adherents of Osama bin Laden have also been guilty of attacking Shiites, considering them to be polytheists. Obviously this is not a mainstream Islamic view.

]]> By: Jonas Rand http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2011/04/04/anti-muslim-activists-gingerly-deplore-jones-koran-burning/comment-page-1/#comment-278852 Jonas Rand Tue, 12 Apr 2011 23:42:17 +0000 http://www.splcenter.org/blog/?p=6150#comment-278852 I am indeed familiar with the context of the verse, and to what "pagans" actually referred, but that is still genocidal (the UN defines genocide thusly: "acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group"). It was stating that this mass slaughter was permissible after a truce between the Pagans of Mecca and the Muslims ended. But Osama bin Laden quoted it in his fatwa, which is where I found it, and apparently decided to expand the definition of "pagans" to include "Jews and crusaders", or at least draw a comparison between the two (?) I was simply stating that one might as well blame the Qur'an, if one is to blame Terry Jones, since one is no more culpable than the other (assuming that the killers are not beyond thinking of non-Muslims as the modern day "pagans"). I am indeed familiar with the context of the verse, and to what “pagans” actually referred, but that is still genocidal (the UN defines genocide thusly: “acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group”). It was stating that this mass slaughter was permissible after a truce between the Pagans of Mecca and the Muslims ended. But Osama bin Laden quoted it in his fatwa, which is where I found it, and apparently decided to expand the definition of “pagans” to include “Jews and crusaders”, or at least draw a comparison between the two (?) I was simply stating that one might as well blame the Qur’an, if one is to blame Terry Jones, since one is no more culpable than the other (assuming that the killers are not beyond thinking of non-Muslims as the modern day “pagans”).

]]> By: Ruslan Amirkhanov http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2011/04/04/anti-muslim-activists-gingerly-deplore-jones-koran-burning/comment-page-1/#comment-278819 Ruslan Amirkhanov Tue, 12 Apr 2011 21:46:34 +0000 http://www.splcenter.org/blog/?p=6150#comment-278819 "Qur’an for saying “fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them” (Qur’an 9:5). " Obviously you take the Islamophobes word at face value. I suggest you look up not only that verse, but what comes before and after it, and the historical context in which it was set. It was specifically in reference to the Pagan Meccans who had persecuted and attacked the Muslims. “Qur’an for saying “fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them” (Qur’an 9:5). ”

Obviously you take the Islamophobes word at face value. I suggest you look up not only that verse, but what comes before and after it, and the historical context in which it was set. It was specifically in reference to the Pagan Meccans who had persecuted and attacked the Muslims.

]]> By: Jonas Rand http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2011/04/04/anti-muslim-activists-gingerly-deplore-jones-koran-burning/comment-page-1/#comment-278377 Jonas Rand Mon, 11 Apr 2011 23:31:56 +0000 http://www.splcenter.org/blog/?p=6150#comment-278377 The Qur'an burning IS freedom of speech. Skinnyminny mentioned some examples that show something of a double standard as far as free speech goes, but the censorship of those artists, as well as that of anything determined "indecent" by the FCC on the radio for 16 hrs a day, is deplorable too. There is no reason for Jones to be arrested; we have the FIRST AMENDMENT (free speech) in this country, unlike some Christian theocracy run by the paedophile-enabling, woman-hating pope, or the Taleban and their disgusting, misogynistic, bloody interpretation of the Qur'an. Exercise it to the fullest extent! The killers were responsible for their own actions, the idiotic Terry Jones is as guilty as the Qur'an for saying "fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them" (Qur'an 9:5). God never told them in their dreams, no matter what the Jamaat-e-Islami fanatics think, that the UN was like the pre-Islamic pagans, and that they had an obligation to slaughter them like it was an eternal Mediaeval battle. If Terry Jones knew anything about his own religion's relationship with Islam, then I think he wouldn't burn the Qur'an. Many of the prophets/characters in the Bible are the same as in the Qur'an, such as Nuh (Noah), Jesus or Isa (a. s.), Ibrahim (Abraham). His action is a display of hate and ignorance, and there was nothing wrong with the President's condemnation of it. However, calling for any punishment is censorious and tyrannical. We are not, I repeat, NOT, in Taliban-ruled Afghanistan, and we do not have to comply with their cruel, Wahhabi shite. The Qur’an burning IS freedom of speech. Skinnyminny mentioned some examples that show something of a double standard as far as free speech goes, but the censorship of those artists, as well as that of anything determined “indecent” by the FCC on the radio for 16 hrs a day, is deplorable too. There is no reason for Jones to be arrested; we have the FIRST AMENDMENT (free speech) in this country, unlike some Christian theocracy run by the paedophile-enabling, woman-hating pope, or the Taleban and their disgusting, misogynistic, bloody interpretation of the Qur’an. Exercise it to the fullest extent! The killers were responsible for their own actions, the idiotic Terry Jones is as guilty as the Qur’an for saying “fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them” (Qur’an 9:5). God never told them in their dreams, no matter what the Jamaat-e-Islami fanatics think, that the UN was like the pre-Islamic pagans, and that they had an obligation to slaughter them like it was an eternal Mediaeval battle.

If Terry Jones knew anything about his own religion’s relationship with Islam, then I think he wouldn’t burn the Qur’an. Many of the prophets/characters in the Bible are the same as in the Qur’an, such as Nuh (Noah), Jesus or Isa (a. s.), Ibrahim (Abraham). His action is a display of hate and ignorance, and there was nothing wrong with the President’s condemnation of it. However, calling for any punishment is censorious and tyrannical. We are not, I repeat, NOT, in Taliban-ruled Afghanistan, and we do not have to comply with their cruel, Wahhabi shite.

]]> By: Jack Knowlton http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2011/04/04/anti-muslim-activists-gingerly-deplore-jones-koran-burning/comment-page-1/#comment-277918 Jack Knowlton Mon, 11 Apr 2011 06:16:43 +0000 http://www.splcenter.org/blog/?p=6150#comment-277918 I'm an American who has lived and worked in the Middle East. I personally know a lot of Muslims. I think Americans are confusing the stupid Qu'ran burning with freedom of speech. Freedom of speech is certainly a right in many parts of the world, but it is not a concept familiar or practiced by most people in the Middle East. This is all about respect for one another. Every Muslim I know has respect for Christianity and Christians, no question. They have their lunitic fringe elements, we have ours. I think if more Americans actually try to travel beyond their own borders and know more of the world, we would have less of this in-your-face George Bush "bring it on" Teaparty macho nonsense and more respect between peoples. I’m an American who has lived and worked in the Middle East. I personally know a lot of Muslims. I think Americans are confusing the stupid Qu’ran burning with freedom of speech. Freedom of speech is certainly a right in many parts of the world, but it is not a concept familiar or practiced by most people in the Middle East. This is all about respect for one another. Every Muslim I know has respect for Christianity and Christians, no question. They have their lunitic fringe elements, we have ours. I think if more Americans actually try to travel beyond their own borders and know more of the world, we would have less of this in-your-face George Bush “bring it on” Teaparty macho nonsense and more respect between peoples.

]]> By: Jordan http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2011/04/04/anti-muslim-activists-gingerly-deplore-jones-koran-burning/comment-page-1/#comment-277238 Jordan Sun, 10 Apr 2011 05:41:43 +0000 http://www.splcenter.org/blog/?p=6150#comment-277238 Bushart, You know, you could have shortened that a lot by just saying 'Abolish the First Amendment, freedom of religion is wrong, we should be a Christian theocracy'. O.K., now explain to me how your theocracy would be better than an Islamic theocracy, like Iran (pre-emptive response, it wouldn't see: Empire of Spain, Holy Roman Empire, the Inquisition). Ohh yeah, and another interesting point, the majority of the Founding Fathers of the United States were Deists, not Christians. Bushart,
You know, you could have shortened that a lot by just saying ‘Abolish the First Amendment, freedom of religion is wrong, we should be a Christian theocracy’. O.K., now explain to me how your theocracy would be better than an Islamic theocracy, like Iran (pre-emptive response, it wouldn’t see: Empire of Spain, Holy Roman Empire, the Inquisition). Ohh yeah, and another interesting point, the majority of the Founding Fathers of the United States were Deists, not Christians.

]]> By: skinnyminny http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2011/04/04/anti-muslim-activists-gingerly-deplore-jones-koran-burning/comment-page-1/#comment-277070 skinnyminny Sat, 09 Apr 2011 22:45:12 +0000 http://www.splcenter.org/blog/?p=6150#comment-277070 Ian, Here is something that can finally answer some of your questions about what rap artists went through in reference to my comments above - Ice T was also the center of this. He released this album that addresses some of this, 'Iceberg/Freedom of Speech...Just Watch What You Say,' he released this October 1989, this entire album centers on the 1st Admendment. Ian,
Here is something that can finally answer some of your questions about what rap artists went through in reference to my comments above – Ice T was also the center of this. He released this album that addresses some of this, ‘Iceberg/Freedom of Speech…Just Watch What You Say,’ he released this October 1989, this entire album centers on the 1st Admendment.

]]> By: skinnyminny http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2011/04/04/anti-muslim-activists-gingerly-deplore-jones-koran-burning/comment-page-1/#comment-276595 skinnyminny Sat, 09 Apr 2011 00:37:43 +0000 http://www.splcenter.org/blog/?p=6150#comment-276595 Ian, BTW, I'm not saying what these rappers have said/done is right, I'm just pointing out that there is a discrepancy. For instance, one of my favorite songs by Christopher Cross, "Ride Like the Wind," this song talks about a guy on the run, packing, and trying to run from the law by going to Mexico. So, technically, I guess the argument could be, is this song encouraging people to flee and go South of the border? Look at how many people that are on the run and live in Central America and Mexico! Ian,
BTW, I’m not saying what these rappers have said/done is right, I’m just pointing out that there is a discrepancy. For instance, one of my favorite songs by Christopher Cross, “Ride Like the Wind,” this song talks about a guy on the run, packing, and trying to run from the law by going to Mexico. So, technically, I guess the argument could be, is this song encouraging people to flee and go South of the border? Look at how many people that are on the run and live in Central America and Mexico!

]]> By: skinnyminny http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2011/04/04/anti-muslim-activists-gingerly-deplore-jones-koran-burning/comment-page-1/#comment-276587 skinnyminny Sat, 09 Apr 2011 00:23:12 +0000 http://www.splcenter.org/blog/?p=6150#comment-276587 Ian, I guess it's meant to be left alone (not being sarcastic). However, you will probably be able to find info on the group Screwball, allegedly questioned/arrested for singing the song, "who shot rudy." Then also look at Eric Clapton's remake of Bob Marley's, "I shot the sheriff," which became an instant worldwide bestseller for Clapton, yet, I don't think you can buy Ice-T's song, "Cop Killer," imagine that! Imagine if a rap group sang Bob Marley's song! Ian,
I guess it’s meant to be left alone (not being sarcastic). However, you will probably be able to find info on the group Screwball, allegedly questioned/arrested for singing the song, “who shot rudy.” Then also look at Eric Clapton’s remake of Bob Marley’s, “I shot the sheriff,” which became an instant worldwide bestseller for Clapton, yet, I don’t think you can buy Ice-T’s song, “Cop Killer,” imagine that! Imagine if a rap group sang Bob Marley’s song!

]]> By: Ian http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2011/04/04/anti-muslim-activists-gingerly-deplore-jones-koran-burning/comment-page-1/#comment-276489 Ian Fri, 08 Apr 2011 20:41:27 +0000 http://www.splcenter.org/blog/?p=6150#comment-276489 skinnyminny, Sorry, but I can't find either of those things. Are you talking about the 1994 hearings or the ones that took place a few years ago? skinnyminny,

Sorry, but I can’t find either of those things. Are you talking about the 1994 hearings or the ones that took place a few years ago?

]]> By: skinnyminny http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2011/04/04/anti-muslim-activists-gingerly-deplore-jones-koran-burning/comment-page-1/#comment-276452 skinnyminny Fri, 08 Apr 2011 19:12:30 +0000 http://www.splcenter.org/blog/?p=6150#comment-276452 Ian, 6-19-1989 concert - performing this song on stage. Also, see the congressional hearings, arrest warrant issued for Dr. Dre... Ian,

6-19-1989 concert – performing this song on stage. Also, see the congressional hearings, arrest warrant issued for Dr. Dre…

]]> By: Ian http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2011/04/04/anti-muslim-activists-gingerly-deplore-jones-koran-burning/comment-page-1/#comment-276396 Ian Fri, 08 Apr 2011 17:04:57 +0000 http://www.splcenter.org/blog/?p=6150#comment-276396 skinnyminny, The members of N.W.A. were never arrested for their song "F*** tha Police". Their record company received a letter from the FBI protesting the song, but it contained no threats of legal action. skinnyminny,

The members of N.W.A. were never arrested for their song “F*** tha Police”. Their record company received a letter from the FBI protesting the song, but it contained no threats of legal action.

]]> By: DorisV http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2011/04/04/anti-muslim-activists-gingerly-deplore-jones-koran-burning/comment-page-1/#comment-275925 DorisV Thu, 07 Apr 2011 23:35:50 +0000 http://www.splcenter.org/blog/?p=6150#comment-275925 Pastor Jones is just a simple idiot. Did he invite the press to this event or did he and his followers but the video on the internet? I agree with what Obama said this time. What the Pastor did by burning the Koran could be called "inciting a riot". As for the folks who killed the UN workers, their actions were wrong. They are probably considered heros in Afghanistan. We just need to get out of there and let them solve their own problems. Pastor Jones is just a simple idiot. Did he invite the press to this event or did he and his followers but the video on the internet? I agree with what Obama said this time. What the Pastor did by burning the Koran could be called “inciting a riot”. As for the folks who killed the UN workers, their actions were wrong. They are probably considered heros in Afghanistan. We just need to get out of there and let them solve their own problems.

]]> By: Brian Bushart http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2011/04/04/anti-muslim-activists-gingerly-deplore-jones-koran-burning/comment-page-1/#comment-275899 Brian Bushart Thu, 07 Apr 2011 22:47:25 +0000 http://www.splcenter.org/blog/?p=6150#comment-275899 When Americans of Christ are no longer to be understood by our press and our politically correct constitutional rights of our own sovergn given land, are being granted to what many would consider an enemy within our own emborderment, our rights of religous freedoms, instead of the reality based inclusion which are our own, are being attacked at the very heart of the American inclusion by a force within our country known of an insurgent level of a foriegn belief structure trying to rise over the top of our own, This, others view as a victory over Christianity. It would never have been allowed twenty years ago, and should be being put upon regularly by our people of faith as exactly what it is, not what our leadership holds in stance of a position, commonly known, as just another stance which has been deduced strictly to be of its programmed rating capablility for their own next election. This is obviously not the case with all polititions, while at the same time has a share greater of its stupidity level inclusion, than I've personally seen it made of any availability in our country since my own birth. When Americans of Christ are no longer to be understood by our press and our politically correct constitutional rights of our own sovergn given land, are being granted to what many would consider an enemy within our own emborderment, our rights of religous freedoms, instead of the reality based inclusion which are our own, are being attacked at the very heart of the American inclusion by a force within our country known of an insurgent level of a foriegn belief structure trying to rise over the top of our own, This, others view as a victory over Christianity. It would never have been allowed twenty years ago, and should be being put upon regularly by our people of faith as exactly what it is, not what our leadership holds in stance of a position, commonly known, as just another stance which has been deduced strictly to be of its programmed rating capablility for their own next election. This is obviously not the case with all polititions, while at the same time has a share greater of its stupidity level inclusion, than I’ve personally seen it made of any availability in our country since my own birth.

]]> By: skinnyminny http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2011/04/04/anti-muslim-activists-gingerly-deplore-jones-koran-burning/comment-page-1/#comment-275747 skinnyminny Thu, 07 Apr 2011 18:06:37 +0000 http://www.splcenter.org/blog/?p=6150#comment-275747 It should also be noted that a retailer, that's right, a retailer was arrested for selling the album by 2LiveCrew. Don't get me wrong, it's a problem when the police feel they are targeted on a national level, but, it's also a problem when something like what Jones did turn into an international event that affects not only military, as was the case at the UN. It should also be noted that a retailer, that’s right, a retailer was arrested for selling the album by 2LiveCrew.

Don’t get me wrong, it’s a problem when the police feel they are targeted on a national level, but, it’s also a problem when something like what Jones did turn into an international event that affects not only military, as was the case at the UN.

]]> By: skinnyminny http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2011/04/04/anti-muslim-activists-gingerly-deplore-jones-koran-burning/comment-page-1/#comment-275141 skinnyminny Wed, 06 Apr 2011 19:22:03 +0000 http://www.splcenter.org/blog/?p=6150#comment-275141 ModerateMike & Jordan, Arrests have been made in some instances such as this, i.e. the rap group N.W.A. was arrested for singing a song called F*** the Police, a rapper in Florida was arrested for a cop song, and Charles Manson was arrested for being the mastermind of the Manson family-it is alleged that he didn't kill NE1, but, his followers did. ModerateMike & Jordan,
Arrests have been made in some instances such as this, i.e. the rap group N.W.A. was arrested for singing a song called F*** the Police, a rapper in Florida was arrested for a cop song, and Charles Manson was arrested for being the mastermind of the Manson family-it is alleged that he didn’t kill NE1, but, his followers did.

]]> By: Jordan http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2011/04/04/anti-muslim-activists-gingerly-deplore-jones-koran-burning/comment-page-1/#comment-274685 Jordan Tue, 05 Apr 2011 23:33:29 +0000 http://www.splcenter.org/blog/?p=6150#comment-274685 "“It seems President ‘Constitutional Lawyer’ needs lessons in America 101. Seriously." Ironic, coming from a women who twice tried to revoke the First Amendment. "...but have a right to exercise his 1st Admendment rights." Yes - as does President Obama, and the SPLC - which is why Mr. Jones was not arrested. Also, defence of free speech from a person who doesn't believe in freedom of marriage choice is equally ironic. ““It seems President ‘Constitutional Lawyer’ needs lessons in America 101. Seriously.” Ironic, coming from a women who twice tried to revoke the First Amendment.
“…but have a right to exercise his 1st Admendment rights.”
Yes – as does President Obama, and the SPLC – which is why Mr. Jones was not arrested. Also, defence of free speech from a person who doesn’t believe in freedom of marriage choice is equally ironic.

]]> By: ModerateMike http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2011/04/04/anti-muslim-activists-gingerly-deplore-jones-koran-burning/comment-page-1/#comment-274536 ModerateMike Tue, 05 Apr 2011 17:59:49 +0000 http://www.splcenter.org/blog/?p=6150#comment-274536 That the President refrained from calling for Mr. Jones's arrest is sufficient acknowledgement of his free speech rights as far as I am concerned. He neither requires nor deserves any other praise or recognition, especially if he is going to do something that even anti-Muslim groups realize could incite violence. That the President refrained from calling for Mr. Jones’s arrest is sufficient acknowledgement of his free speech rights as far as I am concerned. He neither requires nor deserves any other praise or recognition, especially if he is going to do something that even anti-Muslim groups realize could incite violence.

]]> By: Concerned Citizen http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2011/04/04/anti-muslim-activists-gingerly-deplore-jones-koran-burning/comment-page-1/#comment-274464 Concerned Citizen Tue, 05 Apr 2011 14:17:47 +0000 http://www.splcenter.org/blog/?p=6150#comment-274464 Bye Bye Obama is 2012. Mr. Jones went over the top, but have a right to exercise his 1st Admendment rights. As far as the soldiers go. They are briefed about the possibilitiees of attacks by the enemies. Bye Bye Obama is 2012. Mr. Jones went over the top, but have a right to exercise his 1st Admendment rights.
As far as the soldiers go. They are briefed about the possibilitiees of attacks by the enemies.

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