No they didn’t want democracy because the founding fathers were members of the rich ruling class.

” Under a Constitutional Republic, the law rules and protects equally. ”

Yes, that’s why according the original constitution, black people were property, and women and men without property couldn’t vote. Good thing progressive people continually amended and fixed that broken Constitution of the Founding slaveowners, right?

Wealthy elites always fear democracy, calling it “mob rule”. Funny how they often resort to mobs to keep themselves in power when it is necessary. If you think that the mass of people are not capable of making decisions which affect them, then who is to decide for them?

This country was founded as a Constitutional Republic for a reason. We have a “law of the land” that was not perfect, but was a starting place to keep the federal government under control, give most of the power to the local and state governments. this is not supposed to be a democracy because under a democracy, mob rules. Under a Constitutional Republic, the law rules and protects equally. Sure, there been needs to add laws, with regards to race and sex, and we should have picked up and gone forward from there. But RTR and most of the groups like them, Oath Keepers and others, are far from racist and certainly don’t hate the government. They want to see the government protect our rights and liberties…

Since when was anyone trying to take away your freedom of thought or speech? Exposing someone and criticizing them is not taking away their freedom of speech, or did you confuse freedom of speech with freedom from criticism, as so many conservatives tend to do?

And as for personal responsibility? Well since conservatives and their ilk are so fond of blaming someone else for their problems while preaching personal responsibility to everyone else, that’s when it became “ignorant” I guess.

Uhhhhhh….who is asking you to pay for gay weddings?

” Want 9 kids? You got it…i dont want to be forced to subsidize it. ”

Well you’re not subsidizing children now either. You are subsidizing mostly old people or military contractors. Enjoy your failure.

Here’s my counter-offer.

1. Want to drive on our roads? Too bad. You don’t want to pay.

2. Want to use our libraries? Nope, free for paying customers only(as in taxpayers).

3. You want to utilize services and infrastructure which was built either by the government or built via government investment? Sorry, paying customers only.

4. You want to live in the US West of the East Coast? Sorry, that territory was annexed to the United States courtesy of the US government which either took the land by force or bought it and then sold it to various individuals and companies for a loss, sometimes practically giving it away.

5. You want to use US dollars as a medium of exchange? Those dollars are printed by the treasury, and the US monetary system is watched over by the treasury. This means labor, and it means it costs money. You don’t want to pay so no US dollars for you. Try using your gold coin collection.

Nobody cares what the worm-food wanted when they were alive. The constitution is a living document.

“they are talking about eliminating BIG government,”

What is “big” government, how do you measure the size of government? Cubic meters? Is it measured by weight? Explain this.

” back to a time when presidents didnt go around the country bragging about their accomplishments,”

When was this time? Show your work.

” when the EPA could declare anything illegal,”

The EPA can’t declare anything illegal, and I mean anything because the EPA in case you haven’t heard is not a legislative body.

” before the NLRB declared it illegal for Boeing to build a factory in the state of their choosing.”

So that they could screw workers and force states into a bidding war to see who would offer the lowest taxes, if any?

” “They” and I include myself in this group would like to see lower taxes (or a fair or flat tax),”

First of all, Americans have the 2nd lowest tax burden in the industrialized world; and look what we got for it. Stop complaining about taxes. If you make under $250,000 a year you got a tax cut a few years ago. You want a flat tax? Spend some time in Russia, which as had a flat tax for about ten years now, and like the US, has incredible inequality of wealth. By conservative logic, modern Russia should be a utopia. Even the large bureaucracy which exists on paper is easily bypassed with money.

” a government that doesn’t support 51% of the population by some program whatever it might be,”

Please cite a source for this ridiculous claim. The US has the flimsiest social welfare system in the industrialized world, and in some cases has worse health statistics than some non-industrial countries. Norway has far higher taxes, most of which is spent on social welfare(as opposed to military expenditures, which consumes a portion of the US budget far bigger than any welfare program), and it also has the highest standards of living in the world. In fact, when we look at statistics related to living standards and health, we see that the countries with the best statistics tend to have higher taxes and spend a lot of money on social welfare programs.

What a novel concept- instead of letting our cities rot, we could improve our infrastructure, creating jobs in the process, create socialized healthcare so that people don’t have to worry about potential healthcare expenses and thus can spend that money on consumer goods and services(thus creating more jobs), and we can spend the money on higher education as well as job training and re-training programs to have a more flexible, dynamic workforce.

Oh no, some crank would call that ’socialism’(although it is clearly not, by definition). Let’s just keep giving more tax cuts to the richest percentage of the country while spending more money on military expenditures than all the other major military powers combined. That’s useful, and it’s worked SO well thus far.

Although this may be tough for the SPLC to understand, RTR.org people are not discriminatory in the least. Libertarians/liberty minded people recognize above all else, that you are free to choose to live your life as you please provided it doesn’t infringe on my life. Want to be gay and get married? fine…just dont force me to pay for it. Want 9 kids? You got it…i dont want to be forced to subsidize it. You should be free to live as you wish, provided you take responsibility for your actions. We all do.

Everyone has their own beliefs and ideas as to what freedom means to them. When you hear that people want to take the governance back to a previous era (most preferably pre-FDR) they aren’t trying to bring back any of the apartheid ideology, or separatists ideas, they are talking about eliminating BIG government, back to a time when presidents didnt go around the country bragging about their accomplishments, when the EPA could declare anything illegal, before the NLRB declared it illegal for Boeing to build a factory in the state of their choosing. “They” and I include myself in this group would like to see lower taxes (or a fair or flat tax), a government that doesn’t support 51% of the population by some program whatever it might be, where BIG government honors states rights, and so much more!
“Liberals are people that haven’t been educated in reality yet”

I too, would fight and die to protect your beliefs. But I have heard far too many ‘patriots’ screaming about how ‘liberals should be killed,’ and wishing death on elected government officials.

These are the people who give your groups a bad name. And until you get them under control, I will still hold the ‘neo-patriot’ movement in contempt.

Aron

As as conservative, I will fight and die to protect your rights and beliefs, no matter how much I disagree. Would you do the same for my beliefs?

I fail to see why this is even an issue.

“I think, as a generally sound rule of thumb, that anyone who labels themselves a “patriot” almost certainly isn’t.”

Typical liberal ignorance. In fact, most people I know that call themselves patriots are more patriotic than any liberal ever imagined. Just because someone doesn’t go along with what government tells them, or the liberal agenda, they’re not patriotic? That’s just nonsense. By definition, a patriot is “a person who loves their country and who is ready to defend it against an enemy” (Oxford Advanced Learner’s Dictionary.) An enemy can be a foreign entity, or it can be specific officials within theory own government. An enemy is simply someone perceived as a threat to their country and the way they believe it should be. Most patriots’ (including my own) viewpoints stem from a more literal interpretation of the Constitution, not the picked-apart, warped interpretation coming from the corrupt judicial system. So before you generalize patriots as being anything other than a patriot, try to see things from their perspective. And before you make some general “typical conservative” remark about me personally, I’d inform you that I take my values and beliefs on an individual basis, so don’t be the “typical liberal.”

There are some really intelligent, truly patriotic people there – including the founder, Gary Franchi. The fact that the SPLC is targeting it only reinforces my belief that it’s a positive, helpful force for sharing information and communicating with other people.

Why are you people so scared of freedom of expression, freedom of assembly, and the philosophy of liberty?

SWM ISO FWF of pure Aryan blood. Must have proficiency in rifle and sidearm. Pickup truck a plus. Ability to field dreads a deer/other large game a plus. Membership to National Watch List a plus.

Previous to that, they thought I was a “Good Ole White Boy”, and the racist language was embarrassing and sometimes almost continuous. I heard the “N-word” in most of the businesses I dealt with (in Florida), and the owners would brag about how they’d find ways to only employ white males. They were also very hostile to “quotas” and “statistical analysis”. That was about the only way they could be caught. Some of the customers I had left after that month tried to pick fights with me over “I should have the right to deny service or do business with whomever I wish!”. In other words, they didn’t want to do business with immigrants and African Americans and only did so because they feared lawsuits.

From that horrible month, I’ve refused to assimilate and express pride in my ancestry. It’s wrong to “go along” with racism just because you need an income. That only empowers them.

Jonas Rand – I suggest you read “Two Nations” by Hacker and “RacistAmerica” by Feagin. There are two main forms of racism, the overt kind that everyone thinks of when they think of “racism”, and the covert form. The covert form is almost ubiquitous in this country, and takes its form as stereotyping and making false assumptions. This form also is reflected in hidden discrimination – nothing is said but the guilty person will prefer a white male over any other minority and/or show greater respect for that person (and treat them better).

Recognizing the covert form of racism can be difficult, and indeed it’s suggested that one takes classes on the subject, where you will learn to spot it (and then it becomes obvious and blatant).

Another aspect to racism that most people forget is that it is tied to power and domination and is an expression of dominance.

It’s a safe bet to accept that most “Patriot” or “Militia” groups are racist. For the most part, you can detect the racism in the language they use and the things they say (and the things they DON’T say).