http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-50.....04083.html

Oh, and Red, if you’re not going to provide links to prove what you’re saying, why should I take you seriously?

Gene Willis, you sound very incoherent. Try typing without drinking alcohol.

JamesinUSA, did you read the article? The writer is not excusing anyone. Damn, can any one of you read coherently?

Rroberts, why do you assume people who post here are liberals? I don’t identify myself as a liberal. As for the claim of more hatred among liberals, can you provide evidence? All I see from folks is a bunch of whining. And if someone is a bigot, why not identify it?

I am curious and pose a question to the readers of this site. Could someone show me a timeline of societal education standards for latinos, asians, africans, and anglos? I’m just curios to see how many generations each are from the time their society discovered the number zero or developed modern structures or indoor plumbing. I would welcome hearing how that chart turns out.

Back to the flash mobs. These children need swifter and more serious consequences. Though unfortunate I will clap the day that some prepared citizen puts one of them down and makes an example that might save the lives of countless others by showing that there are negative affects of this behavior. What these children are doing is more than risking their freedom from jail they are permanently imprinting a stigma on other people of what blacks are really like. And that stigma will now take generations to wash out.

Didn’t a woman have to work twice as hard as a man to be seen as equal until men got it through their thick skulls they could compete? Wasn’t that part of the woman’s equality movement? ….the blacks need to get a clue and behave twice as good as whites, asians, latinos, etc just to prove they can.

You have asked why it took SPLC more than a year to notice the flash mob trend. It’s a fair question.

Keep in mind that we don’t track or monitor common crime. Shoplifting sprees or even a rise in muggings — regardless of the races involved — normally wouldn’t fall under our purview. Even the “flash mob” trend is borderline, because there is no evidence to date suggesting that these have been premeditated racial attacks. It really wasn’t until the Milwaukee incident turned into a racial attack that the phenomenon registered on our radar screen.

Now consider your hypothetical reverse situation: White “mobs” choosing to attack black victims. What could be their motivation? Monetary gain? Unlikely. A general expression of frustration over their social condition? Far-fetched. A majority group usually has a specific reason for targeting a minority group — and everyone, not just SPLC, would probably notice that much more quickly than the reverse situation.

Think of it another way: Roughly 1 in 8 Americans is black.If black violence were perfectly random, 7 of 8 victims would not be black. Should that be interpreted as “racial intent?” But if white violence were perfectly random, only 1 in 8 of victims would be black. That’s why a white “mob” attacking blacks would immediately stand out — if only because it would be an extreme statistical anomaly.

Robert Steinback
Deputy Editor, Hatewatch blog
Southern Poverty Law Center

As the writer of this article, I have been fascinated by the commentary it has generated here. Mostly, I am amazed by how readily people will invent content that isn’t there, presumably to justify their disgust at not having their own views fully validated by the article. Nowhere have I “excused” the perpetrators for their acts; nowhere did I blame the victims; nowhere did I minimize the racial aspect of the acts. Seeking to understand why these events took place is not the same as seeking to pardon them.

Where there is clear evidence of racial intent, as at the Wisconsin State Fair, the SPLC believes such cases should be pursued as hate crimes. But the mere existence of a racial difference between perpetrator and victim is not proof of a hate crime. A crime becomes a hate crime when its perpetrator is motivated by certain types of hatred — against particular races, ethnicities, religions, sexual orientations and so on—and that has to be established by evidence, not assumption.

That intent is most often established by overt comments or actions of the perpetrator himself, expressed before, during or after the attack. Sometimes the hate aspect of a crime can be inferred – as with the planting of a backpack bomb along the route of a Martin Luther King Day parade in Spokane, Wash., in February. The racial aspect of the Milwaukee flash-mob attack was supported both by inference – the attackers deliberately bypassed black fairgoers – and the comment of at least one arrested participant, as I noted. The evidence in the other flash mob occurrences was not nearly so obvious. That doesn’t rule out race as a motivation in the other cases, but it would be irresponsible to simply assume this in the absence of clear evidence. That’s what criminal investigations are for.

To those who say the SPLC isn’t being even-handed in its analyses of suspected hate crimes, let me be clear: The same standard applies regardless of the races of the alleged perpetrators and the victims. Contrary to what our critics want to believe, there is no assumption at work by SPLC that all crimes involving a white perpetrator and minority victim are by definition hate crimes, and that every reverse instance is not.

Robert Steinback
Deputy Editor, Hatewatch blog
Southern Poverty Law Center

I agree with your comment.

“I would just add that if you take an openminded look at what a lot of “white nationalist blogs” and so on are about, then at least some of what they say is NOT “let’s hate on, persecute and oppress non-whites.” A considerable amount of what they say is “white people are victims of racism too, we need to defend ourselves.” – Red

I’ve been to those sites and all they do is spew bigotry towards blacks, Muslims, Hispanics, basically aynone they consider inferior. And they create mythical statistics to try to corroborate their nonsense. Excuse me if I don’t want to subject myself to that garbage.

“So in this latter sense – the idea that whites are victims of racist violence too – I think the SPLC would actually get some begrudging respect from white nationalists if they were to get out in front of talking about black flash mob violence and in using their considerable resources to do what they can to determine how much racist intent is really involved.” – Red

White nationalists have always hated SPLC and they always will because of what they do. Some even accuse folks like Morris Dees and Mark Potok of being “deceitful Jews.” Oh, and this article has demonstrated what the SPLC does by interviewing parties involved in the cases. And as I mentioned, cops in Milwaukee are charging one black dude for committing hate crime because he said whites were “easy targets.”

“The SPLC is very late to the game, but perhaps they can come up with some sort of active positive influence? I suggest being active is better than downplaying black flash mob violence by rarely reporting on it and pretending it’s not happening by leaving it to only local media to talk about.” – Red

SPLC isn’t downplaying or ignoring anything. If that were true, they wouldn’t have reported on it at all. And the local media isn’t the only media in the U.S. talking about. I’ve seen national media outlets talk about it.

I agree with your comment.

I would just add that if you take an openminded look at what a lot of “white nationalist blogs” and so on are about, then at least some of what they say is NOT “let’s hate on, persecute and oppress non-whites.” A considerable amount of what they say is “white people are victims of racism too, we need to defend ourselves.”

So in this latter sense – the idea that whites are victims of racist violence too – I think the SPLC would actually get some begrudging respect from white nationalists if they were to get out in front of talking about black flash mob violence and in using their considerable resources to do what they can to determine how much racist intent is really involved.

The SPLC is very late to the game, but perhaps they can come up with some sort of active positive influence? I suggest being active is better than downplaying black flash mob violence by rarely reporting on it and pretending it’s not happening by leaving it to only local media to talk about.

Thing is, that’s not my argument. My argument is clearly stated in the very first sentence of my comment. Feel free to respond to that argument, if you want.

“How exactly do you know that for sure? Sounds more like an opinion because, once again, SPLC has reported hate crimes committed by minorities. – ADM”

Of course I don’t know for sure, I’m merely asking the question. Perhaps you think it would take just as long for the SPLC to take notice of all-white mobs behaving the same as these black mobs. I don’t. I tell you what, let’s put this out there for the average SPLC blog reader.

Do people reading this think that if all-white mobs were leaving their parts of towns to go to neighborhoods that were predominantly non-white to loot and rob, do you think it would take over a year and over 100 such incidents for the SPLC to take notice?

“Who said the victims of the flash mob incidents were not terrorized? Who said these people aren’t traumatized or afraid? Who said these people aren’t terrorizing their own communities with gun violence which they are doing? No one. You don’t think black gangs don’t terrorize their neighborhoods? Come up with proof of who said those things. And once again, a different ethnicity-on-different ethnicity crime is not always based upon so-called “race.” If the perpetrator went after someone because of nationality or ethnicity, it’s a bias crime. If that was not the case and it was just about being thuggish, then it’s not a bias crime. – ADM ”

The point of mentioning that the people who work and own these stores is as much victims as people being robbed on the street is that I get the sense that when it comes to talking about black flash mobs, people make a big distinction in their minds between purely physical violent assaults and those which are merely robbing and thieving. You can such a distinction made in the article that my comment is responding to. I think it’s important to keep in mind that even looting of stores terrorizes communities. And if terrorizing is going on then it would seem like the SPLC would be interested. They are interested in fact, as this article shows. My question is, what took the SPLC so long? My argument is that I doubt it would have taken them so long to respond to all-white mobs conducting over 100 such attacks in a 18 month period.

“Why are you making assumptions? This site has reported on bias crimes committed by “minorities.” – ADM”

Yes the SPLC has reported bias crimes committed by non-whites, no argument there. As I’ve said twice now, I am asking why it’s taken the SPLC so long to notice black flash mob violence. I am arguing that this would not be the case if we were talking about all-white mobs.

“Once again, you’re making assumptions and SPLC has reported on bias crimes committed by “minorities.” – ADM ”

Once again, my argument is NOT that the SPLC has never reported on bias crimes committed by non-whites. Please, if you can, show me the respect of responding to arguments I’ve actually made.

“Let me guess, you’re a fan of Matt Drudge. Could you post these findings? Proof would be nice. And there you go again making assumptions. How many times do I have to say the SPLC has reported on bias crimes committed by “minorities”? – ADM”

No, I’m not a fan of Matt Drudge, and anyone who is remotely familiar with Matt Drudge knows that he doesn’t do original commentary or investigation. He’s an aggregator. So of course, he’s not who I’m talking about, as anyone familiar with Drudge would know.

And no I’m not going to waste time hunting around for links for you. You can do your own research on this issue if you’re interested in it. If this means that you aren’t going to believe what I’ve said – that I’ve seen a blogger do research on what some black kids are saying in their social media during the attacks, and that some of it does show racist intent – that’s fine with me. Once again, my argument isn’t that the SPLC never reports on bias crimes by non-whites – it’s that the SPLC would most definitely report on all-white mob attacks on non-whites, hate crimes or no. What’s taken the SPLC so long?

“If there was intent on attacking based on nationality or ethnicity, probably, but you’re acting like there’s a conspiracy theory in the U.S. by every organization to favor “minorities” only. Only the crazies can think of that. – ADM ”

No, I’m not “acting like there’s a conspiracy” – there’s no need to be insulting by suggesting I’m a crazy. Once again, I’m asking simple questions – don’t you think the SPLC would be making a much bigger deal out of such attacks if they were being carried out by all-white mobs? Why has it taken the SPLC so long to even notice and comment on these attacks? Do you think it would have taken them so long if the attacks were carried out by all-white mobs?

“*Sigh* This is one of the reasons why the United States will fall. Everyhting has to be about “race” in this country. Americans must be the dumbest people on the planet. White nationalism, black nationalism – it’s all bullshit. Without actual proof of intent of attacking others based ethnicity or nationality, it’s not a bias crime. It makes no sense to assume a different ethnicity-on-different ethnicity crime is about “race” without proof the former did the crime strictly because of “race.” And it’s not the truth without proof. Can you show proof? If not, it’s just opinion. – ADM ”

I’m opposed to racism committed by any one group against any other group.

If you’re at all familiar with these flash mob attacks, then you would know that there’s been at least one recent episode where hate crime charges are being charged against black mob members. So yes, there’s proof.

But again, if you were arguing in good faith and attempting to understand my argument, you would know that I’m not specifically interested in whether hate crimes are being committed here. I’m wondering where the SPLC has been on this issue, and I’m wondering if they would have been so absent on this issue if white mobs were committing property crimes and violence against non-whites.

“That’s an opinion, an uneducated opinion, not a fact. Those blogs you talk about are white nationalist blogs despite what you think, just like the Nation of Islam website is about black nationalism. No one has been scooped on and the only curious turn of events would be people not caring about “race.” – ADM ”

When dozens of sites that are interested in reporting, discussing and in some cases even doing original investigation into racial conflict in this country are talking about dozens of incidents of apparent and real racial violence while meanwhile, the SPLC is sitting off to one side mute, then yes, the SPLC is being scooped. Sorry, but the SPLC is late to the game on this issue. They just are. It’s curious because racial conflict in this country is supposedly one of their main concerns. And yet…. silence up to now. Now let’s see what they’re going to do about it.

Let’s dispell one notion: based on what I’ve read of them, the intent of these mobs is not for monetary gain, it’s to intimidate. It’s a “show of force”, which was the very heart of the purpose of lynch mobs in earlier times.

That’s my take on it, anyway.

Clearly, we live in a multi-cultural society. Unlike, say, Japan, where the population is on the order of 98% Japanese, we are able to draw on the unique life experiences and cultural under-pinnings of our African-American brothers and sisters (and others, of course).

We are all a part of the multi-cultural fabric, and this diversity of experience is our greatest strength as a nation. What could possibly demonstrate this most obvious of facts any better than the issue discussed in the article?

How dare anyone question these “flash mobs”, as they are simply bringing to the table their unique contribution to the society in which we live. We should all be thrilled.

A year and a half into an epidemic of between 100 – 150 mob attacks conducted almost entirely by blacks and leaving dozens of white victims and only now is the SPLC taking note. Odd, no?” – Red

I don’t know how many times I have to say this. This site has reported bias crimes committed by “minorities.” Your argument of SPLC somehow hesitant of not reporting bias crimes committed by “minorities” and then say it’s not enough does not make sense. And if there are stories about what you’re saying, post them here so we can see.

“So a lot of the mob attacks are about thievery, ransacking and pillaging… so what? Well, as a group interested in race/racial issues/racial conflict, do we really think the SPLC wouldn’t take notice of all-white mobs doing the same thing? Do we really think it would take so long?” – Red

How exactly do you know that for sure? Sounds more like an opinion because, once again, SPLC has reported hate crimes committed by minorities.

“And since when is wrecking stores not “racial?” Are these black mobs wrecking black-owned stores in their own neighborhoods? In most cases, of course they”re not. They’re leaving their own neighborhoods to go to other parts of towns to wreck stores that are worked in and owned by other racial groups. What are the effects on the neighborhoods after black mobs have swept through? Do people feel less secure walking the streets where they live? More secure? How does this organized black mob violence not have a terrorizing effect on the communities they’re attacking? Aren’t business people members of the communities too? Businesses aren’t faceless kiosks run by robots – employees have to deal with workplace psychological trauma of dealing with their stores being wrecked, and franchise owners have their livelihoods threatened.” – Red

Who said the victims of the flash mob incidents were not terrorized? Who said these people aren’t traumatized or afraid? Who said these people aren’t terrorizing their own communities with gun violence which they are doing? No one. You don’t think black gangs don’t terrorize their neighborhoods? Come up with proof of who said those things. And once again, a different ethnicity-on-different ethnicity crime is not always based upon so-called “race.” If the perpetrator went after someone because of nationality or ethnicity, it’s a bias crime. If that was not the case and it was just about being thuggish, then it’s not a bias crime.

“So only a few of these attacks have resulted in hate crimes – but even in the cases of assault where no hate crime charges are filed, why do the majority of the victims of these black mobs tend to be non-black? Would the SPLC ignore such attacks for so long if all-white mobs were attacking mostly non-whites, hate crimes or no?” – Red

Why are you making assumptions? This site has reported on bias crimes committed by “minorities.” And once again, a different ethnicity-on-different ethnicity crime is not always based on looks. It’s unbelievable how much “race” plays a role in the U.S. It’s getting old now.

“What would the SPLC’s reaction be if white mobs were leaving behind dozens of non-white victims? Would they shrug and say, “well, we couldn’t find any racist intent, so we’re going to have to be satisfied that these attacks didn’t have any aspect of racial motivation.” I doubt it. I think we all know that the SPLC would be using its considerable resources to comb through all the evidence to find ANYTHING remotely “racial” about all-white mob violence where non-whites were the majority of victims.” – Red

Once again, you’re making assumptions and SPLC has reported on bias crimes committed by “minorities.” And I’d rather wait for the authorities to move forward on a case then make assumptions.

“In fact, I’ve seen a couple of individuals, just dorky bloggers really, on their own do more research into these attacks than law enforcement, the national media, the local media and the SPLC combined. In one particular case, just by looking through the tweets being written by black kids who were participating in the attacks, one blogger was able to see all kinds of ugly, inciting, anti-white comments. Just think what the SPLC would be able to do with its million$ against all-white mobs attacking non-whites. No stone would be left unturned.” – Red

Let me guess, you’re a fan of Matt Drudge. Could you post these findings? Proof would be nice. And there you go again making assumptions. How many times do I have to say the SPLC has reported on bias crimes committed by “minorities”?

“Finally, we all know the SPLC has considerable power to introduce stories into the national and local media. Does anyone seriously doubt that all-white mobs leaving dozens of non-white victims in their wake would be a national story that the SPLC would be flogging relentlessly? Wouldn’t such a phenomenon likely be #1 on their list of issues? Wouldn’t such a phenomenon be considered a “front line” issue as far as racial conflict in this country is concerned?” – Red

If there was intent on attacking based on nationality or ethnicity, probably, but you’re acting like there’s a conspiracy theory in the U.S. by every organization to favor “minorities” only. Only the crazies can think of that.

“There’s a bedgrudging tone to this article that suggests that the SPLC would like to ignore this issue, but can’t anymore. The sad thing is that this tone probably has very little to do with the epidemic of violence black mobs are carrying out, and more to do with the Evil White Nationalists mentioned at the end of the article.” – Red

If that’s the case, then why are there stories in the News Roundup articles of anti-white crimes?

“Outside of local regional media reporting the incidents, the vast majority of commentary, opinion and indeed original investigation is coming from “white nationalist” (or whatever you want to call them) writers out there who are doing most of the work of talking about the anti-white racism aspect of these attacks. I’m not encouraging people to go to those sites, but it’s the truth.” – Red

*Sigh* This is one of the reasons why the United States will fall. Everyhting has to be about “race” in this country. Americans must be the dumbest people on the planet. White nationalism, black nationalism – it’s all bullshit. Without actual proof of intent of attacking others based ethnicity or nationality, it’s not a bias crime. It makes no sense to assume a different ethnicity-on-different ethnicity crime is about “race” without proof the former did the crime strictly because of “race.” And it’s not the truth without proof. Can you show proof? If not, it’s just opinion.

“I’m generally not impressed by the rigor of most “white nationalist” blogs and news sites and whatnot, but frankly, the SPLC has been led by the nose and thoroughly scooped on this issue by the Evil White Nationalists. A curious turn of events!” – Red

That’s an opinion, an uneducated opinion, not a fact. Those blogs you talk about are white nationalist blogs despite what you think, just like the Nation of Islam website is about black nationalism. No one has been scooped on and the only curious turn of events would be people not caring about “race.”

An “apparent” (?) wave of street rowdiness……………..More often, however, it appears teens use social media to converge on a site “just to mingle and hang out” (tell them that in WI)………………That these and other cases of urban lawlessness are perpetrated almost exclusively by black youths is inescapable – yet “it’s also not clear what to make of that fact”……………….But “race may only be a coincident factor” in the disturbances……..rather seems to contradict “That these and other cases of urban lawlessness are perpetrated almost exclusively by black youths is inescapable”, doesn’t it?……………….

This was “not an issue of race”, we believe this is an issue of “age and economics”, naturally………………..Whether the black flash mob trend is a manifestation of anti-white hate – – or just a familiar spilling over of “boredom and frustration” from a teenage class that is still wracked by high unemployment and minuscule prospects for opportunity and advancement………….hmmm. Wonder if 50% dropout rates from High School has a correlation there?

Sounds like the same old apologetics to me, certainly not these kids fault, though, thats for sure.

Oh, one last thing guys – being held in such low esteem by you is an honor for me. That means you have no arguments in retort, other than of the “oh he is an idiot” variety. Nothing of substance. You are quite simply laughable.

Yes, please Aron and ADM, note how you question my reading and comprehension skills, and yet FAIL absolutely to address any of the OTHER points I make in my piece.

You focus instead on whether the author is excusing the black youth. I question the unerlying CAUSES.

And your SILENCE is deafening. (PS: I was a grad assistant while obtaining my MBA, and proofed quite a few marketing texts during my day.)