I fully agree with your desire to discuss this in person. Debate in comment boards always leaves a great deal to be desired.

That being said, while the state constitutions may reserve the right to secede, the federal Constitution always trumps the state. And there is no mention of the right to secede anywhere in the US Constitution.

If a state were to secede, the federal government reserves the right to bring that state back into the union, by force if necessary. It is simply a fact.

Hardhat, it is always nice talking to you, and I would be more than happy to continue this discussion as long as you wish :)

Best,

Aron

Radification papers of some several states did recgonize the right of sucession under some conditions. There were Northern states . New York. States “That the powers of government , My Be Resumed ( taken Back), by the people, whosever it shall become necessary to their happiness:; that every power, jurisdiction, and right, which is not, by the said Constitution, delegated to Congress of the United States, or the departments thereof, remains To the people of the several states or their respective State Governments, to whom they have granted the same. James M. Bulman [It is Their Right p. 62.

I attended the Unversity of Florida. There is no need for you to explain the differences, as I am well aware, having lived in Gainesville for five years.

I am referring to the Confederate States of America as having ceased to exist. You, as a citizen, have every right to fly whichever flag you so choose.

Louisiana, as a state, seems to be taking a rather dangerous position in flying the flag of a defunct (not to mention defeated) nation. As unlikely as it would be, one can imagine a similar case as a Zimbabwean courthouse flying a Rhodesian flag.

I hope you finally see what I’m referring to. I have no qualms with the Confederate flag being flown by private citizens to honor their ancestors. I was even involved with the local branch of the SCV.

But when a state government flies the flag, that implies disloyalty to the United States. And that doesn’t sit well with me. Secession is not a right guaranteed in the Constitution.

I hope this helps.

Aron

Your choice is very different from that of the state. Personal versus governmental.

By their flying the rectangular version of the Confederate Battle Flag, (the real version of the Battle Flag was actually square), Louisiana is stating their support with the cause of secession, not to mention their tacit, if unthinking, support of human chattel slavery.

You place that flag in front of the graves of your ancestors to honor their fight for a defunct national entity. Louisiana flies that flag as an affront to the Republic and national sovereignty.

If they flew flags from various Louisiana regiments that fought during the Civil War, that would be a different story. But this spits in the eye of the United States.

Aron

Not once did anyone here insinuate that all southerners owned slaves. They were simply too expensive.

I respect your wishes honor your ancestors, but how about doing it without telling us Northerners to ‘eat dirt.’

It doesn’t make you look that good…

Aron

I can see all those years of Socialist schooling did you worlds of good. Nice job sticking up for ‘yor race.’

If people like you are the vanguard of the White Nationalist movement how can you ever hope to accomplish your goals?

Meanwhile, I’ll just sit here laughing.

Ha ha ha!

Aron

Show your sources. Because I’m an historian of the American Civil War, and your claim regarding Lincoln owning slaves is news to me.

Also, I love the way you conveniently edited your quote from the great man. You seem to have forgotten the parts where he says ‘If it meant by freeing all of the slaves to preserve the Union I would do it. If it meant freeing some of the slaves and keeping some of the slaves in bondage, I would do it.’ Nice cherrypicking.

Here’s the thing about the American flag versus the Confederate flag: one nation was successful in its revolution. One nation failed miserably.

Can you recall which is which?

Aron

As a black person, I don’t fly the Pan-African flag. In fact, I’m not much of a flag person at all. On the other hand, why would someone be tolerant of the Confederate flag? Additionally, why would someone be tolerant of this and other symbols that would only bring back painful memories. Now let’s talk tolerance. You say be tolerant, when most people didn’t want a mosque anywhere near the NY site. Most people didn’t want any of the suspects of these countries in prisons or courts on our soil. Now, how would you feel if they put one of those flags up in plain sight? Would you be tolerant?

I’m just asking, because you appear only to want people to be tolerant in your case, but you won’t return the same gesture.

Who really cares if the battle flag was flown in armed rebellion against the United States. The Union Army was responsible for monsterous attrocities perpetrated against Confederate citizens, entire cities were raised to the ground!

The Confederates were fighting for their homes, most of the soldiers did not own slaves. Consequently, it is ridiculous to argue that the average Confederate soldier had a stake in the preservation of slavery. The average soldier simply wanted to repel an invading army so that his home would not be ravaged by the horrors of war. These men were brave, many of them made the their country.

Many nations have civil wars, the display of rebel symbols and honoring of the dead is part of national reconcilation, look at Quebec for example. You don’t see Canadians attempting to eradicate the public display of Quebec’s national flag. Consequently, why should the Confederate flag be deemed offensive?

I realize that there are many blacks in the United States who are offended by the Confederate flag. As a white person, I’m offended by the Pan-African flag, but you don’t see white citizens throughing a fit about its public display. Consequently, you keep your symbols and we’ll keep ours.

According to Benjamin Franklin? Pretty much!

I’ll give you a headstart on what Franklin said of Europeans. He said that Irish and Welsh were ‘whitewashed Africans.’ He went on to say that Irish, Scotts, Germans were too dark skinned. And that French, Spaniards, Welsh, Swiss, Scandinavians, Flemish…didn’t look white.

So, the next time you decide to look at Latinos, Blacks, Native Americans, Muslims…differently, think about it, if your ancestors were here, they’ve probably experienced the same thing as the modern day people of color. During these days, not only were Jews target of hate, but Japanese, German and Italians, Catholics…

These are not my words, but Franklin’s offensive against immigrants. During this time, Europeans Americans were not considered ‘white.’ And to make further on Franklin, he said, “whoever would overthrow the liberty of a nation must begin by subduing the freeness of speech.” In addition, he said, “in this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes…”

I hope I have answered your question.

on September 16th, 2011 at 11:13 am

Jo, you were never a citizen of any state known as the “Confederate States of America”, and when that entity did exist it was unrecognized by other nations.

Officially no other nation recognised the CSA but many did support the cause. Officialy recognizing the CSA would be decaring war against the USA. Look at Great Britain, Great Britain armed the CSA. They built the CSS Alabama and many other war ships for the CSA The majority of the sailors aboard CSA naval ships were British subjects. No nation is on record of ever challenging a CSA naval ship or merchant ship.
Some historians believe there was a conspiracy, that Great Britain where the American abolitionist movement was born and financed from were also the same who were encouraging the Southern States to succeed from the Union, the same people who kept arming and supplying the CSA. There was a lot more to do with the American Civil War than most are aware of. Slavery had little to do with the cause of the war. If you read Lincolns papers, it was more to do with how was the Union going to pay the bills without taxes from the Southern States ? They use to teach that in the classrooms many years ago (pre 1965), Today they teach revisionist history.

Its basically the same thing.

The Confederate Flag stands against the UNITED States of America, and to the Constition of the United States of America. The Confederate States were specifically opposed to being a part of this country, and that is why they raised their own flag for the brief duration of the ill-informed secession from the United States.

Perhaps, in fact, they should have been allowed to secede. The rest of us would be better off without those inhumane, cretinous bible-thumpers.