The Hatewatch blog is managed by the staff of the Intelligence Project of the Southern Poverty Law Center, an Alabama-based civil rights organization.

Islamophobe Geller, in New Book, Accuses SPLC of Being ‘Communist Front’

By Robert Steinback on September 21, 2011 - 4:09 pm, Posted in Anti-Muslim

Pamela Geller is the nation’s most charismatic purveyor of wild-eyed allegations that Muslim fanatics – which, in her mind, include every Muslim who hasn’t categorically renounced Islam itself – will topple the Constitution and impose Shariah law any day now, unless freedom-loving Americans heed her warnings. Her new book, “Stop the Islamization of America: A Practical Guide to the Resistance” – meaning, the “counterjihadist” resistance – purports to instruct Americans on how to stand heroically against this entirely ridiculous scenario.

Most clear-thinking Americans can tell the difference between the real but limited threat posed by Islamic terrorists and the utterly insane theory that an entire religion is conspiring to take over the Western world. But then, Geller has a hard time separating facts from imagination.

Take, for example, the reference in her book to the Southern Poverty Law Center, whom she despises for having designated her organization, Stop Islamization of America (SIOA), as a hate group. The passage, reprinted from a February post on Geller’s Atlas Shrugs blog, creates an entirely fictitious history of the SPLC (which publishes this blog).

It reads, “Before the collapse of the Soviet Union, the SPLC was designated as a Communist front. [Geller doesn’t say by whom.] It was essentially run by a couple, Anne and Carl Braden, who were Community Party USA members. They had been identified in sworn testimony, and they made no attempt to deny the allegations. They would be proud that their legacy remains intact today: their “heirs” – destroyers and America-haters — continue their work to subvert and destroy America.”

Heretofore, no one has disputed that the SPLC was founded in 1971 by Alabama civil rights lawyers Morris Dees and Joe Levin, both of whom remain active in the organization today. The Bradens, though renowned as courageous white champions of black civil rights in the heart of a racially intolerant South – and by no definition “destroyers” or “America-haters” – were never associated with SPLC.

“They didn’t have anything to do with the Center,” Levin reiterated Tuesday.

Heidi Beirich, the SPLC’s director of research, politely asked Geller for a correction. Beirich wrote, “Hi there. I just thought you might want to know that the section of your book on the founding of SPLC is completely wrong. Our founders are Morris Dees and Joe Levin. The Bradens have never played a role in the SPLC. I think you have confused us with someone or something else. We’d appreciate a correction.”

Geller, however, insisted her tall tale was accurate.  She replied, “Hi there. SIOA is not a hate group. I think you have confused us with someone or something else. We’d appreciate a correction. As for the Bradens, they were formally affiliated with the Southern Conference Educational Fund, which was a Communist front group. Both of the Bradens, and particularly Annie, worked with the Southern Poverty Law Center also. I have this on good authority from a Communist Party insider who was told not to mention outside of Party circles their work with the SPLC, but who passed it on to me. That insider believed that their presence was supposed to be under the radar, and that while they may not have been involved in the SPLC’s founding, they latched on to it and made common cause. The Party loved to appeal to Black Americans by asserting a strong anti-Klan stance – that was their entering wedge. The Southern Poverty Law Center, as I am sure you’re aware, was a perfect tool for that. I am confident in the veracity of my sources for this, and hence no correction is needed. However, I look forward to your retraction and correction of your libelous smear of SIOA.”

Geller has a secret “informant” inside the Communist Party? How convenient – a source with a story no one can verify. Furthermore, Geller claims this source “was told not to mention outside of Party circles their work with the SPLC” – but then violates that directive by telling all to a woman known for posting all manner of hokum on her blog, including such whoppers as President Obama’s mother having once been an exotic dancer and that Obama is the love child of Malcolm X. (In the book, Geller refers to all those who voted for Obama as “morons.” Classy.)

Geller’s response to Beirich walks back from the book’s assertion that the SPLC was “essentially run” by the Bradens, to their “working with” the SPLC and “making common cause.” Historically, the Communist Party was indeed a strong proponent of racial equality during America’s Jim Crow years. As a result, it became a common tactic of white segregationists to accuse civil rights proponents of being in the thrall of communists. Geller appears to be relying on a similar canard here.

Beirich wrote to Geller again, reasserting that the Bradens played no role at SPLC. In her next reply, Geller tattled more about her supposed confidential source:  “My informant worked for a Communist Party bookstore between 1978 and 1983. My informant learned there directly and with certainty that Anne Braden was a Communist Party member and that she also had worked with the Southern Poverty Law Center. Perhaps your superiors have lied to you.”

Or, perhaps Geller is just chronically impaired when it comes to plain reality – especially those parts of it that deviate from the reality she creates in her head.

  • CriticalDragon1177

    Robert Steinback,

    I’m beginning to wonder if Pamela Geller is actually mentally disturbed or is just desperate to demonize anyone who opposes her.

  • JeffB

    Ruslan, you seem to be saying in your last post that there is no reason to “highlight Jewish involvement” in the Bolshevik Revolution and its excesses, but that “Nazi Germany was to be a racial state, based on the Germanic `race`, and to some extent they created this”, in your words, and therefore Germans share some blame. I do not agree that average Germans bare more guilt for the murders under the Nazis than average Jews bare for the murders under the Bolshevik Revolution. But to go into this would involve a long discussion that this thread is not the proper place for. The same for your statement, “… there are very few serious intellectuals today who claim that the entire German people are responsible for the Holocaust. So you’re basically complaining about nothing.” We have a different perspective about this – I’ll just leave it at that.

    Like I said, it’s probably best for us to just agree to disagree. Not that I am trying to assign historic guilt to Japanese, Germans, Jews or any other people. Long memories and grudges over past “wrongs” tend to not be useful at all is what I believe.

    Regards, JeffB

  • Ruslan Amirkhanov

    Jeff, I can see this is a really difficult concept for you. The Bolsheviks were a multi-national, multi-ethnic movement in a country which had literally hundreds of different ethnic groups. In 1917, the Bolshevik party had the smallest number of Jews compared to the other parties of that time. The NSDAP was a German party, and in its own words it claimed to fight for German people. Nazi Germany was to be a racial state, based on the Germanic “race”, and to some extent, they created this. The USSR on the other hand, was at best a state controlled by Muscovite Russians from the death of Stalin onward. There is absolutely no reason to highlight Jewish involvement above say, Latvian or Georgian involvement.

    Bottom line- blaming Jews for the Bolshevik revolution is ahistorical, and plainly ridiculous, much like MacDonald’s historical research.

    Having said that, there are very few serious intellectuals today who claim that the entire German people are responsible for the Holocaust. So you’re basically complaining about nothing.

  • JeffB

    Ruslan, we just have to agree to disagree on these matters: Kevin MacDonald and the validity of his work and the quality of his scholarship, whether the promotion of the Holocaust through movies, articles, museums etc. is an unwarranted attack on the German people as a whole as well as implicitly on all non-Jewish White People, whether the “Christian heritage European ethnic people” is an ethnic group, whether there is a lack of balance in blaming all Germans for the Holocaust but claiming Jews bare no responsibility whatever for the catastrophe that was the Bolshevik Revolution, and other such matters. We aren’t going to resolve them in this thread! But I was interested in your views and appreciate your taking the time to respond to my posts.

  • Beverly Kurtin

    “mr white,” I wonder what Egyptians killing Christians has to do with whether or not the SPLC is a Communist front organization. The fact is that they are NOT in any way associated with that bunch. The Communists lost the cold war and with the exception of a few whaco countries such as North Korea and Cuba, Communism is pretty much dead.

    Many years ago my father took my brother and me to a town hall meeting. My dad spent 12 hours a day welding submarines in Groton, Connecticut. We are Jews and had gone to Connecticut to work on the submarines. During a headed discussion as to whether or not a sidewalk should be poured in order that school kids like us would not have to walk on the shoulder of the road. Several kids had been hit that year.
    Some jackass turned around and called my father a “goddamned New York Jew Commie.” That was the only time I ever saw my dad HIT someone with the intention of doing bodily harm. The borough’s constable saw what was about to happen and just turned away. When the idiot started screaming that he had been hit, the constable said that he hadn’t seen anything and none of the people in the meeting would back him up.
    Two days later, he tried to run me over with his car. No Jew bastards were going to play with his kids. He was arrested and convicted on attempted murder with a vehicle and was sent away for 15 years.
    THAT is what people need to do when they hear other people maligned. The SPLC is one of the ONLY organizations I support financially (when I can) because they cause JUSTICE to prevail. I am proud to be affiliated with that courageous group of people. “mr white,” take a chill pill.

  • Edward

    Pamela Geller is completely divorced from reality.

  • Mitch Beales

    JeffB all of humankind shares “profound guilt for what happened to the Jews under the Hitler regime.” The USA did its part in the genocide with immigration laws that excluded Jews seeking refuge from nazi Germany and the territories it had occupied.

  • Ruslan Amirkhanov

    Jeff, the link clearly shows how MacDonald cuts out information which doesn’t support his theory. On the subject of Communism, regardless of what telephone number body counts one believes can be attributed to socialist revolution, the idea that Jews should be associated with it is ridiculous given the fact that in no country with a socialist revolution(attempted or successful) were Jews the majority of Communists. The best MacDonald and his ilk can possibly come up with is “over-representation”, which is worthless because we have no reason to assume that the amount of Communists in say, the USSR, would be proportional. As I said before, in some regions of the Russian Empire there were millions of people living a nomadic or otherwise medieval existence, and the Communists in these areas tended to be Russian for a number of reasons. Therefore, Russian Communists were actually over-represented.

    Your analogy with the Holocaust is a complete and utter failure for a few reasons. First of all, few respected scholars today insist on blaming the entire German nation for the Holocaust, and virtually none blame all Europeans. As a side note, I refuse to use your contrived and arbitrary “Christian Heritage European peoples” simply because Europeans do not identify themselves as such. The analogy also fails because in the case of Nazi Germany, we are not speaking about a movement or state wherein at some times, Germans were “over-represented”. We are speaking of Germany, a popular movement in Germany, and the German state, at one time. Trying to compare this with Jews in the USSR is as ridiculous as blaming say, Georgians for the murder of all those “Europeans”(I notice you don’t seem to give a damn about all the non-Europeans allegedly killed by Communism).

    The idea that the Holocaust is routinely blamed on Europeans as a whole is a fantasy that exists only in the paranoid minds of MacDonald and his ilk.

    Also, perhaps you can explain how you came to the conclusion that it is only “OK” to demonize white people? You might also consider that “white” people had the run of the world for the last two centuries. Prior to that, much of the world might have been grumbling about the Mongols, and before that, Romans, Greeks, or Persians.

  • JeffB

    Hi Ruslan Amirkhanov,

    Thank you for sending me the link to “Scholarship as an Exercise in Rhetorical Strategy: A Case Study of Kevin MacDonald’s Research Techniques” by David Liebernan, which I read with interest. Lieberman looks at how Kevin MacDonald used information in The Generation: The Rise and Fall of the Jewish Communists of Poland by Jaff Schatz in his work, The Culture of Critique.

    Lieberman argues that MacDonald does not use the content of Schatz’s work in an objective, scholarly way. He gives such examples as that MacDonald when remarking on the high percentage of Communists among the Polish Jews does not take into account that the great percentage of Jews emigrated from Poland after the Communist Party came to power and thus those remaining were much more likely to be Communists.

    Where MacDonald makes the point that, while the Catholic Church was suppressed by the Communists, collective Jewish life flourished and Jewish cultural and social welfare organizations were permitted and encouraged, along with Jewish economic cooperatives, Lieberman points out that MacDonald did not report that the Communist government encouraged Polish Jews to emigrate and also disputes the claim that Jewish life was really “flourishing”. Though Lieberman does make some points, he does not pretend this article is a scholarly work itself or that he is not promoting his own views on MacDonald’s writings and perspectives. You can’t legitimately claim that Lieberman’s article destroys the validity of MacDonalds work.

    You make the point that it is false to blame on Jews the debacle of the Bolshevik Revolution and the vast violence and tens of millions of murders it perpetrated. Fine, I agree. But Norman Finkelstein makes the argument that some Jews seem to claim that all Germans (and by some extension, all Christian heritage Europeans) share profound guilt for what happened to the Jews under the Hitler regime, and yet want to deny Jews share any guilt whatever for the murder of millions of Europeans under Communism. I believe that neither Germans nor Jews should be collectively condemned for these historical tragedies.

    Hi Skinnyminny,

    You raise various points, which would take me pages to fully reply to. I’ll just say that yes, you can find historic instances of Christian heritage European ethnic people acting badly towards other ethnic groups. Isn’t this just as bad as dredging up every bad thing Amerindians, or Arabs, or Muslims, or Africans have done as a way of trying to demonize them? Why is it only OK to demonize White people? Anyway, thank you for your comments.

  • Jonas Rand

    “Information is being recycled and sold to people – i.e., Obama didn’t get congressional approval for Libya, well, didn’t Clinton bypass congress and instead get UN approval for Haiti in 1994, saying to ’spread democracy,’ but, isn’t that what was said for Iraq – spread democracy! Did Reagan get congressional approval for Grenada in 1983, or, let’s say Libya? Or, how about Bush for Panama in 1989 or the Gulf War 1990? Then when you look back at Vietnam, it was allegedly said ‘we had to fight to keep our freedoms,’ well isn’t that the same thing said for Iraq?”

    After 78 days, a war becomes illegal without congressional approval (War Powers Act). It still isn’t false that Obama violated the War Powers Act and did not get congressional approval for the war in Libya, despite the fact that other American imperialist actions around the world didn’t either. It is the same thing Clinton did to Yugoslavia and the same bullying this country has engaged in the world over.

  • Leland Mellott

    When you posit enemy it has to grow. There are no enemies. People who have “enemies” want to kill. Love is the power and the way. There is no other way.

  • skinnyminny

    JeffB,
    to add to my comments I posted a few minutes ago, as far as MacDonald, I live in Califas, L.A. in fact, which is just a hop, skip and a jump from LBC. I can say, that, it appears that MacDonald has also gotten the support of a lot of skinheads, and they are not ashamed to let it be known now (meaning they won’t hide who they are), especially in Huntington Beach and Costa Mesa areas.

    But, back to what I was saying before, it saddens me that what is being given a bigger platform is not right. I am angry that hate speech is given such a big platform, including the history revisionists, who are denying the holocaust. Information is being recycled and sold to people – i.e., Obama didn’t get congressional approval for Libya, well, didn’t Clinton bypass congress and instead get UN approval for Haiti in 1994, saying to ‘spread democracy,’ but, isn’t that what was said for Iraq – spread democracy! Did Reagan get congressional approval for Grenada in 1983, or, let’s say Libya? Or, how about Bush for Panama in 1989 or the Gulf War 1990? Then when you look back at Vietnam, it was allegedly said ‘we had to fight to keep our freedoms,’ well isn’t that the same thing said for Iraq?

    You’re older than me, I’m not even old enough to get anything from AARP yet – not saying this is a bad thing, but can you name a period when we are not in other countries? In addition, most of the time we, or at least most of us, are looked down upon by people who visit this country, or move to this country, and ridiculed about how we’re the super power, the most rich…but most dumb – I know this, because I’ve met some Africans (black) that openly say, “you have so many opportunities in this country and don’t take advantage of it, you have the best education…” I’ve also met some people from India and Pakistan that ridicule us about lack of Math. But most of all, immigrants come to this country and openly has disrespect towards the blacks and latinos in this country – almost as if they have been pitted against us before they got here, yeah, some will use the excuse that we are too Americanized, or that we don’t speak any of their native tongues.

    Me, I’ve met people from a wide variety of countries. In Califas, this is where people go (besides NY…) and most of all, this is where most first live or open their businesses because it is cheaper where the minorities live.

  • skinnyminny

    JeffB,
    Okay, back to what country would accepting of Christian Europeans…well, here is something that you should look into, the allegations that the co. Rio Tonto started a civil war in Papua New Guinea that lasted over 10 years – in order to take the land and definitely to take the copper and gold out of the land, hiring mercenaries to kill the locals including the children.

    People keep thinking that African nations with black citizens are just violent and have just been fighting, same as ME countries – yes, most of the people are very vocal about not wanting any western people in their countries, the news will have people thinking they are just hateful (shame on the news) towards the Western peoples. One thing the media have right, they say ‘they hate us for our freedoms.’ They are right in a sense, that corporations go into these countries and run havoc – much like, what is happening in Peru and Brazil right now. When you look at what is happening in El Salvador, Colombia, India…with our corporations, and the people don’t benefit, I think you have to ask yourself. But, please do, I really think you should see the ‘human rights abuses,’ i.e. The Keno Study in Nigeria, kids were used for drug study, children died, suffered blindess, paralysis, brain damage…it’s coming out now the Syphyllis experiment in Guatemala…the Roma is experiencing forced/secret sterilizations – much like what happened in Puerto Rico. So, before you out and call me a racist, call it what you want – either way, as I said a while back, when it comes to important or certain issues everybody can be or appear to be racist. I will tell you though, I am angry and saddened that this country is taking a turn backwards – promises that weren’t kept, and spreading of lies about minorities. And please, don’t say that anyone can make it in this country – some people have been in this country, like, forever, and work just as hard as anyone else, sometimes working 2-3 jobs and never become rich. It seems, the old saying, ‘working is for suckers,’ just may be true – seems you almost always have to do something wrong to make it rich. And, depending on who you are, it will determine what happens from, i.e. wall street.

  • Ruslan Amirkhanov

    “Yes, Kevin MacDonald still teaches, because he has tenure, but his stand has had a high cost. He has had activists show up in his courses and disrupt classes, he has had people try to physically intimidate him, he has been treated as a pariah by some of his colleagues, he is an outcast in his department etc. Believe me, he has paid a price for breaking the taboo of a gentile writing about Jewish influence on Western Civilization.”

    Wow, when you demonize other people, people get UPSET and criticize you? I’m betting that if I blame many of “Western Civilization’s” problems on say, Croats, I’m probably going to get a lot of attacks from the Croatian community.

    “As far as your comments about the accuracy and level of his scholarship, the simple fact is that if the subject of his research had been oppression of Blacks and Hispanics by White people, there would have been little or no controversy.”

    Sorry but your hypothetical “would have” doesn’t fly here. Afrocentrism, for example, was easily discredited by the academic community. And even if your claim was true, it would only be a ‘tu quoque’ argument.

    The fact is that MacDonald cherry-picks, he uses unreliable sources, he deliberately edits so as to distort things, and he foists upon his audience several MAJOR logical fallacies.

    He also seems to understand little about US immigration law, particularly the law of 1924 in comparison to 1965. MacDonald’s basic premise is “Jews wanted this”, so that’s supposed to be the reason it passed. He also forgets that the law it superseded banned a great deal of European immigration, and the main reason why this did not rise after the change in 1965 is that a large part of Europe could not emigrate(behind the Iron Curtain), and others had little reason to, as opposed to in the late 19th and early 20th century.

    MacDonald also wants to have his cake and eat it too. For example, he is fond of pointing out real and alleged “overrepresentation” of Jews among Communists, for example in the USSR. Apparently he was unaware that the Bolsheviks had the lowest number of Jews(out of the revolutionary parties) in 1917. He also fails to account for several facts. First, why does he assume that Jews support the Communists for Jewish ends, while other nationalities seem to be true believers? Jews were also not the most overrepresented ethnicity in the Soviet leadership; that honor goes to the Latvians. So we must ask, why isn’t he writing a book on Latvian conspiracies against Western Christiandom? Lastly, even ethnic Russians were overrepresented in the Bolshevik leadership. Why does MacDonald expect all the nationalities of the former Russian empire to be proportionately represented when entire nationalities lived in nomadic(Kyrgyz, Kazakhs) or in many cases isolated and medieval conditions(North Caucasians)? In short, Kevin MacDonald doesn’t know Soviet history.

    Next, MacDonald is fond of finding Jews any way he can. If a Jew is in charge, say leading a country(like Rakosi or Bela Kun), that’s evidence of Jewish power. But when the leaders aren’t Jewish, e.g. Stalin, Gottwald, Dmitrov, etc., he can claim that they put a “gentile face” on things. MacDonald’s writings make it painfully clear that he has absolutely no idea how socialist governments were chosen and how they operated.

    He also pulls the same thing by claiming that Jews try to conceal the “reality of race”, yet many of the so-called “academic racists” are of Jewish heritage, including the Bell Curve authors.

    ” As far as your accusation that he “deliberately distorts and overstates the influence of Jews” in Europe and the US, I have never seen an in-depth analysis that documents this. ”

    You haven’t seen one? Have you even looked?

    “If you can point me to such a study that shows the “outright lies in his claims” (your words) or inaccuracies in his methods and conclusions, I would appreciate it. I’ve looked but never found one.”

    You need to look harder it seems: http://www.h-net.org/~antis/pa.....tz_01.html

    “By Christian European ethnic people, I meant those with Christian heritage, as opposed to those with Jewish or Muslim historic ancestry. Such people may indeed today be Buddhists, Muslim, atheists etc. The Christian heritage European ethnic people do exist. What would YOU call such people?”

    The question is why I should even group those people together. Yes they have a somewhat common faith but you are talking about many radically different cultures. If I approach some Russian and start talking about how we are brothers due to our “Christian European heritage”, he would probably see me as insane. Many other Europeans would as well. Of course I’m sure Dr. MacDonald will simply chalk that up to Jews.

  • Heidi Beirich

    Kevin MacDonald’s research is indeed very poor and it is driven by his deep seated hatred for Jews. In fact, his research served as a blueprint for avid anti-Semite David Duke’s book Jewish Supremacism (see here). His teaching job is protected by tenure, which he earned because most of his anti-Semitic material was published long after the legitimate academic research that earned him that protection. Even so, his colleagues at Cal State Long Beach have been active in the past few years in condemning his work (something that was first reported on this blog). MacDonald’s anti-Semitism has become much more public as of late as he has taken on a high profile role in the racist political party, American Third Position, which is staffed by well known white nationalist figures.
    Heidi Beirich
    Director of Research
    Southern Poverty Law Center

  • JeffB

    Hi Ruslan Amirkhanov,

    Yes, Kevin MacDonald still teaches, because he has tenure, but his stand has had a high cost. He has had activists show up in his courses and disrupt classes, he has had people try to physically intimidate him, he has been treated as a pariah by some of his colleagues, he is an outcast in his department etc. Believe me, he has paid a price for breaking the taboo of a gentile writing about Jewish influence on Western Civilization.

    As far as your comments about the accuracy and level of his scholarship, the simple fact is that if the subject of his research had been oppression of Blacks and Hispanics by White people, there would have been little or no controversy. As far as your accusation that he “deliberately distorts and overstates the influence of Jews” in Europe and the US, I have never seen an in-depth analysis that documents this. If you can point me to such a study that shows the “outright lies in his claims” (your words) or inaccuracies in his methods and conclusions, I would appreciate it. I’ve looked but never found one.

    By Christian European ethnic people, I meant those with Christian heritage, as opposed to those with Jewish or Muslim historic ancestry. Such people may indeed today be Buddhists, Muslim, atheists etc. The Christian heritage European ethnic people do exist. What would YOU call such people?

    Hi ADM,

    In my original post I clearly called FALLACIOUS (and used that exact word) the argument that because Communists supported the Civil Rights Movement that this in some way invalidates it. How in the world can you claim that I said the opposite? As far as my pride in being Jewish, my point was simply that people should love and appreciate whatever ethnic group they were born into. You can take pride in, say, the country of your birth, even though you had no choice in picking it. I don’t see a problem with this. Nor do I see such pride as in any way belittling other people’s ethnic origin.

    Hi Skinnyminny,

    I was born in Philadelphia 65 years ago and grew up in Camden, New Jersey, a most wonderful place in the 1940′s and ‘50s. If I had to pick my favorite ethnic group, it would probably be Bengali Hindu (which my wife is, by the way). I love and appreciate India, its culture and religious heritage, but that is another story. I don’t at all feel that the American or European civilization is superior or inferior to others. Every culture has its gifts and drawbacks. I’m not at all a chauvinist about America or Europe.

  • Jonas Rand

    “In my opinion, your assertion that the “Christian European ethnic people” is “not a real ethnic group” is a bigoted statement that reflects a hateful agenda, and a claim I doubt you would make against any other people. It reminds me of the claim that many Jews seem to be making now about the Palestinians – that they don’t exist and are really Jordanians (with the implication they should leave their homeland of Palestine).”

    No, it’s just the truth. There is no ethnic group called “Christian European”. Rather, it is classification of people by a religion (Christianity) and a continent (Europe).

    Religion does not determine ethnicity. Unlike religion, membership in ethnic group cannot be changed after birth. If there was an ethnic group comprising Christian Europeans (and their descendants), then for one of them to convert to a religion besides Christianity would exclude them from the group. This is not possible with a real ethnicity.

    Ethnic groups are formed by common genetics, and there are several of them in Europe (such as Welsh, French, Norwegian, Slovak, Chechen). The Christians living on that continent and their descendants do not form a single ethnic group. The difference between that and the Palestinians is that the Palestinians are a unified ethnic group (rather than the hodgepodge of European peoples with Christians as ancestors), and if a Palestinian decides to no longer be Muslim or Christian, it does not make her/him any less Palestinian. Not so with Christian Europe.

  • skinnyminny

    Ruslan,
    I’m not mad at you. I know the type of things these countries have. If you look at my past comments, I’ve actually said I prefer the foods/spices from these countries, this includes Israeli foods/spices, I have purchased goods – which the prices here are more – such as linens, pillows…I guess we, at times, have differing opinions – I do know quite a few people from different countries, Turkey, Iraq, Lebanon, Egypt…they are all different, yet, they are the same in friendships, meaning, if they like you- you will know it, if they don’t like you – you will know that too – they don’t beat around the bush. The ones I know, very few drink alcohol, the others, they don’t drink at all yet they do smoke cigarettes.

    I did have two other comments that didn’t post. I’m not complaining about this, but, just so you’ll know (you are my ally) there are some things I said that didn’t get posted – guess it didn’t pass the muster from the computer program that moderates the comments.

  • skinnyminny

    Ruslan,
    They don’t have the type of shopping we have – meaning, for example, everything is right there. In Western countries, nine times out of ten, if we purchase things, or want to purchase things the store doesn’t have, it takes a special order. In places like Turkey (even as far as China), they have people who can make it on the spot – everything is in one place. Most of the things they sell is real, here we have a lot of immitation, synthethic materials – not saying they don’t have the same stuff – but we have more of it fake stuff. We are overcharged in order to pay for upscale shopping malls, oh, and I’m well aware of the upscale shopping like in Kuwait, that will and can put our exclusive shopping (like Beverly Hills) to shame.

    Me, I prefer open markets, and smaller businesses. I prefer dealing with the owners or close confident/family member of the owner. I prefer to shop at farmer’s market type that are out in open. Please don’t get me wrong on trying to explain myself – I know more than you think I know, it’s just the trying to explain to people who really believe that people in other countries live in straw and mud huts – well, let’s use the phrase, “we’re the best in the world,” type mentality. But again, that’s our ‘news’ that never show the best of most minority groups, yet, always seem to show the bad or worse – for instance, the news never really show the upper class neighborhoods, but, will show the poor neighborhoods as if the entire country live like what they’ve shown.

  • Mitch Beales

    Concerned Citizen in my opinion building an Islamic center in New York is less like building a monument to Hitler at a concentration camp than it is like the monument to Dietrich Bonhoeffer and others at Flossenbürg concentration camp http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F.....morial.JPG
    Hitler was much worse (or at least more effective in his evil) than any of the men who hijacked planes on September 11. Bonhoeffer was a German who drew strength from his religion to fight against nazi terrorism. Fox News reporting on the photographic exhibit that recently opened at the Park51 Islamic center http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011.....ound-zero/ said that:
    Afsana Khundkar, a native of Afghanistan whose 12-year-old son, Waseem, was one of the children photographed for the exhibit, said her family was honored to participate in the project.

    “It’s promoting good things in the world,” she said. “The most important thing is to involve the children in the good things.”

    This sounds a lot more like Bonhoeffer than Hitler to me.