As to putting a stars-and-bars on a vehicle, I find it somewhat offensive but more than that it is historically inaccurate! If you want to revel in the fact that the state of Texas controls all the textbooks published in the nation, and glorify a system of racial oppression and state-sponsored brutality, that’s your prerogative I suppose, but for your evil racist God’s sake use the correct flag! The stars and bars was NOT the official flag of the confederacy-it was a battle standard developed after the confederate military learned that the official flag that their government, in a predictably conservative lack of artistic creativity, had designed was practically indistinguishable from the American Flag on a smoky battlefield. Use your actual flag, unless you’re afraid that your racist friends won’t be able to recognize it any easier now than they could in the 1860s:)

Lincoln declared his aim was to preserve the Union, and not to end slavery. That’s a fact. He later said that, in the end, the War was about slavery. Also a fact. And when he signed the Emancipation Decree, it applied only to slaves in the Confederate states. Slavery remained lawful in all slave states remaining within the Union until the Thirteenth Amendment was passed, after the War ended. The Emancipation Proclamation was no more than an admitted attempt to disrupt the Southern economy. Nothing to do with moral scruples about slavery. Obviously.

As to racism providing the fundamental basis for slavery, it’s difficult to carry that argument to perfection, given numerous black slave-holders (notably in South Carolina, the first state to leave the Union down in the true Deep South). Blacks in the South were not inevitably slaves, and in some slave states like Maryland and Delaware, more blacks were freemen than slave.

If Southerners object to entirely “letting it go”, this is in no small part because those who claim they don’t “get it” continue to recite their favoured (and often mythical) historical narrative which swaddles them in latter-day comfort with their own ignorant prejudices.

If there is anything most Southerners — black and white — uniformly despise, it is hypocrisy. And there can be no greater hypocrisy than touting the principle of consent of the governed as the foundation of legitimate government while moving heaven and earth to deny it in practice.

And for those Americans who cheer the 4th of July with no mental reservation, they would do well to remember slavery continued in North America after 1833 ONLY because we were no longer subject to British rule. Else there would have never been any basis (we are now told) for the bloodiest war in our history that ended in destruction of half the nation to “save” it. Only a sociopath could regard that outcome with pride rather than shame.

The slaves “were freed” despite the strenuous efforts of your Southern forebears to prevent that from happening. And what they “were freed” into was a life of oppression and poverty, courtesy of the same Southerners who fought to keep them enslaved, along with those descendants of theirs who apparently were/are incapable of real self-examination or learning from mistakes. That’s “the Southern heritage” that the League of the South represents.

So try this:

Slavery has been over for a very long time, the slaves were freed. It is time to get over it.

Now do you get it?

I’d call it a double standard, but that’s redundant when you’re talking about racists.

AH SAY, SUH, HOW RUDE!!!

I never said the filibustros were anything but private citizens seeking to further the cause of slavery.

Which of course you still haven’t denounced.

Once you denounce the fact that slavery was the basis for the filibustering, I’ll leave you alone.

In addition, you said that southerners would never support military action against a foreign power for territorial enlargement. And then you admitted the filibustros did exist.

You can’t have it both ways, Hunter.

Time to end the hypocrisy.

Aron

Oops, you forgot defend your slavery as well.

” In the war, the Yankees pioneered the art of total war that would later be unleashed in Europe in WW1.”

Are you HIGH? If anyone pioneered “total war” it was probably Napoleon, as I believe he was the one that came up with the term. In any case it has nothing to do with those terrible “Yankees” seeing as how we got into the war in 1917, and the reason it was so bloody had to do with the machine gun and rapid-firing breech-loading howitzers. There was also this little thing called poison gas, which had nothing to do with the USA.

“The War Between the States was innovative in the history of warfare – ”

“previous wars in North America had been fought by gentlemen under the laws of war, such as the American Revolution, or the War of 1812, or the French and Indian Wars which settled the fate of Canada.”

Romantic nonsense. There is no such thing as a “Gentleman’s war.” And WHICH “laws of war” do you refer to, specifically?

“The Yankee ideal was to exterminate the enemy, incite race wars, and completely destroy the opposition – the same type of warfare that was unleashed on Europe in WW2 and Southeast Asia in the 1960s and early 1970s.”

Boy you sure are confused. First of all, your side fired on Ft. Sumter. Maybe you should have held off until you had some bigger industrial capacity. Your side also didn’t like banks too much; too bad war takes a lot of finance, huh? As for WWII, last time I checked the USA didn’t start that. Germany unleashed its war of extermination against the USSR, prior to the US even being involved.

I also notice you don’t say anything about the tens of thousands of Southerners who apparently gladly accepted this evil Yankee way of war and helped advance the Yankee flag all over the world.

If memory serves, there were filibusters launched by private citizens against Cuba and Guatemala in the 1850s, which was not supported by the U.S. federal government, which was controlled by the Southern-controlled Democracy until the election of Lincoln in 1860.

Unlike the American flag, the Confederate flag symbolizes a group of people who fought to defend their own homes from a hostile war of aggression that took the lives of hundreds of thousands of White Southerners. In the war, the Yankees pioneered the art of total war that would later be unleashed in Europe in WW1.

The War Between the States was innovative in the history of warfare – previous wars in North America had been fought by gentlemen under the laws of war, such as the American Revolution, or the War of 1812, or the French and Indian Wars which settled the fate of Canada.

The Yankee ideal was to exterminate the enemy, incite race wars, and completely destroy the opposition – the same type of warfare that was unleashed on Europe in WW2 and Southeast Asia in the 1960s and early 1970s.

“(1) In a “civil war,” two sides fight for the control of the same government. The American Revolution wasn’t a “civil war” because the American colonists had no desire to take over the British Empire!”

No country recognized the CSA, and no, the Vatican did not either. This was a mistake based on one letter the Pope addressed to Jefferson Davis referring to him as the president of the CSA. Nor formal recognition was granted.

“Why are you describing the War Between the States as a “Civil War”? The South had no desire to rule the North. It was the North that attacked and invaded the South.”

Hello- Fort Sumter? They wrote a check they couldn’t cash.

“(2) Here in the South, the “Civil War” was about resisting the War of Northern Aggression – the only reason Arkansas, Tennessee, North Carolina, and Virginia seceded was because Lincoln called for troops to attack the Confederacy.”

You can see it however you want, you’re still wrong.

:(3) You can’t hate it both ways – denouncing bigotry, but using slurs to attacks White people – unless you are a Yankee!”

Now who’s using slurs against white folks?

“(4) Slavery hasn’t existed in Dixie for almost 150 years now. Whites don’t want to live among the Black Undertow for understandable reasons.”

By all means list them.

“(5) Black people have destroyed too many neighborhoods, cities, and countries in America to count. Just look at Haiti and sub-Saharan Africa for other examples of their capacity to sustain civilization.”

A stunning display of ignorance of history, economics, and sociology, a trifecta if you will. Bravo!!!

“(6) Chances are the “White landowner” is a blood relative of the “white trash” you just got finished describing above. Most White Southerners owned their land back then.”

Actually the average white poor farmer was pretty much screwed by the plantation owners. It sure is hard to compete with massive plantations using slave labor. No wonder so many whites ended up having to take jobs as overseers or other elements of the slave economy.

“(7) After the Great Liberation of the War Between the States, when Yankees came here to create the utopia after having destroyed the evil slaveowners, White people ended up losing their land to Yankee carpetbaggers.”

Last time I checked those Yankees were white.

“(8) It is actually insulting to fly the American flag in Dixie – that is like flying the flag of Nazi Germany over Poland or the Union Jack over Ireland.”

My god the idiocy flows forth like a torrent! Let’s see- Poland is a different nationality from Germany, and this is not just a matter of formal recognition either. Ditto with Ireland and England.

“Dixie” is not a country, it is not a separate nationality, nobody recognized your pathetic quasi-feudal “state”.

“The American flag symbolizes tyranny and imperialism. Just ask the Plains Indians who were exterminated after the Union Army was redeployed to make the Great Plains safe for the transcontinental railroad after the war.”

Oh yeah, I’m sure the Confederacy never would have considered expansion into the Western territories or Mexico, and you would have treated the natives so kindly.

“Later, the American flag was raised over everything from Hawaii to Puerto Rico to Cuba to the Philippines by Yankees. They even raised the American flag over Germany and Japan.”

Oh yeah, that was SO mean what the US did to poor Germany and Japan!

“The American flag is the real symbol of imperialism, tyranny, murder and oppression – that is how the American flag, the Yankee flag, is seen all over the world today.”

Yes, but your flag represents slavery and the belief in racial supremacy. We’re pretty damned lucky the CSA was nipped in the bud, because imagine what a state with that ideology might do around the world. Then again, once you joined the folk the US continued its expansion. You want to act like southerners had nothing to do with that?

“Only a Yankee would have come up with the idea of raising the American flag over places like Iraq and Vietnam and Korea and Japan and Germany.”

Again with Japan and Germany huh?

“The idea that the Yankee flag represents freedom is the most laughable thing that has probably ever been said in this comments. Do you know a thing about the history of the Yankee flag?”

Your flag represents repression as well. The difference is that the Yankee flag at least represents successful repression.

(“10) The Mississippi Gulf Coast was hit by Hurricane Katrina. New Orleans was hit by the Black Undertow.

Detroit, which has never been hit by a hurricane. was hit by black people in 1967. Unlike Hiroshima, it never recovered!”

Yes, it’s black peoples fault they have been forced into ghettos via credit redlining and well-documented housing discrimination, as well as deindustrialization in those same neighborhoods. Remember when black folks in Michigan moved those factories to Mexico?

No wonder you hicks lost the war, you fail at elementary reasoning skills.

You mention that southerners would never attempt to take foreign territory by force.

How convenient that you managed to forget the so-called filibustros who attempted to seize Cuba through a coup d’ etat and install their own, pro-slavery government.

But that never happened, right?

Pathetic.

It’s not that odd if you’ve been following WN trends since the 90’s. Basically these WNs have got into their heads that Russia is one of the last “white” countries on Earth, and that it is “nationalistic” and what-not. While nationalism is very popular in Russia(relative to say, Germany), it is not “white” nationalism or even Pan-European nationalism.

In fact most Russians that you talk to despise Russia, if not openly than implicitly. Yes, they will often deny this, but it’s true and they know it.

White Nationalists typically view Russia as this nearly all-white wonderland(funny, they think it is so white yet it has corruption and other social problems rivaling and even exceeding some African nations). In fact Russia is heavily mixed, to the extent that nationalists had better take a look at demographic trends before engaging in their anti-Caucasian, anti-Islamic rhetoric.

They have heard horror stories about thousands of skinheads walking the streets of Moscow. BS. Every day I see African immigrants in Moscow, yet in over five years I can count the number of nationalists/neo-Nazi skins I’ve seen on one hand. Most of these skins are just football hooligans who would be just as likely to beat the crap out of some American WN trying to express solidarity with them.

Russians in particular also don’t have any use for the term “white”, far less so than other Europeans. If an American says “I’m Irish/Polish/German/whatever,” they are typically confused. The USSR stamped a person’s nationality on their passport, and thus it is assumed that “Americans” are simply “American”. That is why appealing to someone like Dmitriy Medvedev as if they have some kind of blood link with him is absolutely ridiculous beyond belief. Even if someone could explain to him why they made the appeal, he would just be incredibly confused.

If memory serves, the Vatican recognized the Confederacy. Whoops.

(1) In a “civil war,” two sides fight for the control of the same government. The American Revolution wasn’t a “civil war” because the American colonists had no desire to take over the British Empire!

Why are you describing the War Between the States as a “Civil War”? The South had no desire to rule the North. It was the North that attacked and invaded the South.

(2) Here in the South, the “Civil War” was about resisting the War of Northern Aggression – the only reason Arkansas, Tennessee, North Carolina, and Virginia seceded was because Lincoln called for troops to attack the Confederacy.

(3) You can’t hate it both ways – denouncing bigotry, but using slurs to attacks White people – unless you are a Yankee!

(4) Slavery hasn’t existed in Dixie for almost 150 years now. Whites don’t want to live among the Black Undertow for understandable reasons.

(5) Black people have destroyed too many neighborhoods, cities, and countries in America to count. Just look at Haiti and sub-Saharan Africa for other examples of their capacity to sustain civilization.

(6) Chances are the “White landowner” is a blood relative of the “white trash” you just got finished describing above. Most White Southerners owned their land back then.

(7) After the Great Liberation of the War Between the States, when Yankees came here to create the utopia after having destroyed the evil slaveowners, White people ended up losing their land to Yankee carpetbaggers.

(8) It is actually insulting to fly the American flag in Dixie – that is like flying the flag of Nazi Germany over Poland or the Union Jack over Ireland.

The American flag symbolizes tyranny and imperialism. Just ask the Plains Indians who were exterminated after the Union Army was redeployed to make the Great Plains safe for the transcontinental railroad after the war.

What happened at Wounded Knee?

Later, the American flag was raised over everything from Hawaii to Puerto Rico to Cuba to the Philippines by Yankees. They even raised the American flag over Germany and Japan.

(9) Are you kidding?

The American flag is the real symbol of imperialism, tyranny, murder and oppression – that is how the American flag, the Yankee flag, is seen all over the world today.

Only a Yankee would have come up with the idea of raising the American flag over places like Iraq and Vietnam and Korea and Japan and Germany.

The idea that the Yankee flag represents freedom is the most laughable thing that has probably ever been said in this comments. Do you know a thing about the history of the Yankee flag?

(10) The Mississippi Gulf Coast was hit by Hurricane Katrina. New Orleans was hit by the Black Undertow.

Detroit, which has never been hit by a hurricane. was hit by black people in 1967. Unlike Hiroshima, it never recovered!

The fact that they’re bawling about it to the Russians of all people shows just how “patriotic” these white nationalists are; not at all! What a bunch of pinkos ;-)

http://www.change.org/petition.....e-genocide

Y’all are ignorant. I grew up in the south, had parents from the deeper south and had great grandparents who were among the first settlers in North Carolina and had one of the largest plantations in their area at the time.

But none of us are dumb rednecks, some of my family fought on the side of the south and then left the southland for the arid lands of Arkansas that did not see a fruitful return until the depression era WPA work on the Mississippi.

My family is educated, they have risen above the hard-scrabble existence that was remembered from my grandparents, one who was orphaned at a young age due to both parents dying of Typhoid, in poverty after leaving their burned plantation and another who was the youngest of 8 children of a poor white trash family. He was booted out of the household at the age of 14, told he was big enough to go on his own.

With the help of the Knights of Columbus charity and scholarship fund both my grandparents rose above their past poverty and became pillars in their community. Yes, they held onto some silly racist beliefs typical of their time, but they made sure their children moved up and further out into the world and further away from poverty and striving. As a result, my family is very well off.

None of them talk about the plantation ownership history, none of them talk about the history of Jim Crow and the separation of black man and white, but I remember it well even into the seventies.

Don’t begin to tell me or anyone else that the civil war wasn’t about slavery. It was. Your efforts to paint it as something else are just your redneck, hillbilly, ignorant efforts to retain your racist hatred; the only sense of domination you have in your white trash world.

As for Matt: You may have lived everywhere and you may like the south, but for you to display a sticker of the stars and bars on your truck is an insult to every person who has suffered under the yoke of oppression that was the south.

Slavery was an institution that assisted the economic division of the south along lines of race and class. To this day poor whites cling to racist notions as the answer to their own oppression, sucked in still by the old siren call of the landowner. The siren call to stand in line to guard the interests of the white landowner while your own children starve in your rented cabin.

To put a stars and bars anywhere besides on the ground underfoot is to show that you are nothing more than an ingnoramus who either can’t understand history or a jackass who just doesn’t care.

Matt, if you want to commemorate your love of the south, please find another token rather than one of three hundred years of murder, torture and oppression.

Also, as for you Buz, I don’t know anyone who’s breaking a leg to go down to the Delta, which even before it was ravaged by Katrina was and still is a hellhole of oppression and ignorance to this day.

@Mike no one has called you a bigot yet that I can see. That said, I have to disagree with you on the matter of the federal government having no right to force a state to change its constitution. Article VI, Section 2 of the U.S. Constitution makes that quite clear.

Just imagine if the federal government had no such authority; states could nullify basic rights with impunity.

I only wanna say this once so listen up and, I’ll say it loud and clear!

There’s been a lot of confusion, as to what we southerners rightfully call,

“Abe Lincoln’s great war of aggression”, that one we fought with y’all.

Northerner’s insist on calling it “The Civil War”, like we were under Yankee rule,

but my northern friend, that ain’t the case, though they won’t teach that in school.

See, civil wars are fought over a ’single’ government, by 2 or more armed bands,

Not by invading a soveriegn nation and laying claim to their people and lands.

We were a completely separate nation, with our own people empowered to legislate,

so us Southerners would prefer you use the term, “The War Between the States.”

The south had almost went bankrupt, by laws ramrodded thru by northern interests,

the only way to save the south, was for the South to become seccessionists!

Honest Abe said “we’ll save the Union, by throwing the Constitution out the door!”

“Forget seccession is a legal inherent right to all, to save the North, I’ll start a war!”

If the south seceedes, with them goes all tarrifs, duties, and taxes we are paid,

without which the north can not long survive, therefore gentlemen, we MUST invade!

“We’ll reinforce Fort Sumptner,” Abe said, “and that’ll force the South to start this fight,

and once the war is started,” He chuckled, “it’ll likely be over in a fortnight.”

But Ole Abe had underestimated, The strength of our southern resolve to be free,

He learned a hard lesson at Bullrun, as he watched his troops break rank and flee.

This war would not be over soon, despite all of Ole Abe Lincoln’s hopes and prayers,

he was now committed to see the war thru,and it would continue 4 long and bloody years.

To further his cause and rally support for his war, throughout the northern nation,

Slavery was declared an issue and thus was born the ‘emancipation proclamation.’

Although the proclamation declared all the slaves within the countries borders were free,

apparently it did not include the northern states of Maryland Delaware and Washington D.C.,

And although slavery was finally abolished in April 1865 throughout the southern states,

Northern slavery continued until december, for 8 more months they would have to wait.

Yes sir that war was one of pure aggression, brought about by Northern greed,

and aggression is the fertile soil, in which is planted secession’s seed!

So you need to rewrite your history books, because they’re wrong the way they are,

and just this once admit y’all were wrong, because……… there WAS NO “Civil war!”

.

“Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth.”

Who said that? Just some guy named Alexander Stephens, the VICE PRESIDENT OF THE CONFEDERACY.

Also the tariff argument is ridiculous. Tariffs were much higher during the presidency of Andrew Jackson yet they didn’t secede.