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Georgia Court to Hear Arguments on Obama’s Eligibility for Primary Ballot
Posted By Ryan Lenz On January 18, 2012 @ 3:18 pm In Birther Extremism,Neo-Confederate | 54 Comments
The birther movement, which has bedeviled President Obama since well before his inauguration with questions about his citizenship, is celebrating something of a watershed moment as it prepares to have a day in court.
Earlier this month, Deputy Chief Judge Michael Malihi in Georgia’s Office of State Administrative Hearings denied a motion from the Obama campaign to dismiss four complaints seeking to remove the president’s name from the state’s Democratic primary ballot in March. The decision ultimately cleared the way for a procedural hearing on the challenges.
“I can’t believe this,” Orly Taitz, an attorney who filed one of the complaints, exclaimed on her blog. “[Obama] will have to stand trial to prove his eligibility for office.”
Not exactly. Under the rules of the hearing, scheduled for Jan. 26, Obama does not have to be present – and he won’t be put on trial. Nevertheless, Malihi’s decision has been heralded far and wide as a defining moment for those who have hounded Obama about his lineage. Their celebration, in fact, is notable considering the setbacks their cause has suffered before.
Several years ago in Georgia, another federal judge warned Taitz –– who calls herself “Queen of the Birthers” –– against filing frivolous lawsuits during a trial where she represented two soldiers who fought deployment orders by arguing Obama wasn’t really the commander-in-chief because he wasn’t eligible to be president. The judge fined her $20,000 after he denied her claim.
Then there was the obvious moment that should have derailed the entire birther movement last April, when Obama released his “long-form” birth certificate. It was the answer to years of incessant questions, but it wasn’t enough for Taitz.
Joining her with challenges in Georgia is another man represented by Van R. Irion, of the Liberty Legal Foundation in Knoxville, Tenn. Irion was a former board member of the Southern Legal Resource Center, which serves as the legal arm of the neo-Confederate movement by challenging “heritage violations.” Two other people have filed complaints in Georgia, and similar challenges have been filed in Hawaii and Alabama.
Earlier this month, a state judge in Alabama dismissed the challenge there, agreeing with attorneys for the state Democratic Party that the court should not hear “a complaint that is political in nature.”
Article printed from Hatewatch | Southern Poverty Law Center: http://www.splcenter.org/blog
URL to article: http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2012/01/18/georgia-court-to-hear-arguments-on-obamas-eligibility-for-primary-ballot/
URLs in this post:
[1] : http://slrc-csa.org/site/directors.php
[2] : http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthcertificate.asp
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54 Comments To "Georgia Court to Hear Arguments on Obama’s Eligibility for Primary Ballot"
#1 Comment By CIA Jon On January 18, 2012 @ 5:18 pm
these annoying blokes won’t go away
#2 Comment By Jason Smith On January 18, 2012 @ 6:47 pm
I don’t understand the point of this post. Liberals are always filing lawsuits left and right. Have been for decades. The SPLC files lawsuits all the time. It’s high time we on the right start suing everybody, left and right, day and night. We need our own organization with a whole team of lawyers working round the clock to start suing everybody. I want to see White nationalists file thousands of lawsuits in cities all across this country around the clock. We need to hound these Communists with an endless stream of lawsuits and bankrupt them.
#3 Comment By Patrick McKinnion On January 18, 2012 @ 7:45 pm
Van Irlon is still listed on the board of directors for the Southern Legal Resource Center.
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#4 Comment By Aron On January 18, 2012 @ 8:01 pm
Too bad none of you WNs have any money!!!
Hahahahahaha!!!
#5 Comment By Reynardine On January 18, 2012 @ 9:09 pm
Well, Jason, still waiting for your salad, I see. And your admission will be most interesting when an abuse of process countersuit gets filed against you for each of your vexatious lawsuits.
Seriously, people, what is a “heritage violation”?
#6 Comment By Ruslan Amirkhanov On January 18, 2012 @ 9:38 pm
Jason said: “I don’t understand the point…”
I’m guessing you say this pretty often. I’d expand on that but now it’s time for…(DRUMROLL!)
Jason Smith’s Aryan Logic!(tm)
Liberals(who?) file lots of lawsuits(how many?). Ergo wacky lawsuits against the president which get shot down in every court as frivolous don’t deserve any attention.
” I want to see White nationalists file thousands of lawsuits in cities all across this country around the clock.”
Hey that would be great, because it would bankrupt white nationalists faster than the SPLC ever could. You see in many states, when you bring a frivolous lawsuit you have to pay the other side’s legal costs!
“We need to hound these Communists with an endless stream of lawsuits and bankrupt them.”
What “Communists?”
#7 Comment By Jacqlyn Smith On January 19, 2012 @ 12:43 am
Hey Jason Smith I watched the GOP debate in SC on Monday with five donkeys on the stage…I bet you were one of many donkeys in the audience as your statement proves you to be… “It’s high time we on the right start suing everybody, left and right, day and night”. I didn’t know people like you on SSI could afford to do this
#8 Comment By Jacqlyn Smith On January 19, 2012 @ 12:54 am
I see the SPLC hates hearing the truth
#9 Comment By Betty Boop On January 19, 2012 @ 1:06 am
In my 45 years of living I have never watched so many haters like I did on 1/16/12 at the Republican debate in South Carolina. I didn’t know there could be so many idiots in the same room at the same time. Those 5 candidates on stage were despicable and lowered to the level of the confederate rednecks who live in that awful state. The residents of SC feed on hate which I saw with my very own eyes. Shame on them…
#10 Comment By Ruslan Amirkhanov On January 19, 2012 @ 7:37 am
I’m imagining how Jason Smith goes about his life:
“What’s the point of this bus stop? I mean, lots of other people have cars, why do you want to ride in a bus? You probably hate white people or something.”
“What’s the point of oxygen? I mean I can’t see it, but I need it? And isn’t too much oxygen dangerous? What’s the deal with that? Oh also, we white Americans need to drive the Muslims out of Europe!”
“I don’t understand why people complain about global warming. It was really cold today. They’re probably Communists. And Jews.”
Congratulations, son, you’ve earned yourself a reputation round here.
#11 Comment By Ruslan Amirkhanov On January 19, 2012 @ 10:27 am
Well “Jason/Jacqlyn”, it looks like you are not familiar with browser cookies. You forgot to change your alias before switching to right wing mode.
#12 Comment By Erika On January 19, 2012 @ 11:13 am
Not only is Jason Smith’s reasoning laughable, his reading comprehension is also atrocious because he missed the fact that this frivilous harassment law suit was being filed by the Liberty Legal Institute which was formed either by the late Jerry Falwell or his actually much worse son which is just one of many “Christian” legal centers who entirely function to represent “Christians” who are prevented from asserting Christian Supremacy.
Of course, there are also a ton of other right wing legal organizations which represent just about every factor of right wingdom. Most of whom are basically corporate front organizations who only get involved in business cases on the corporation’s side.
But I guess there aren’t many White supremacist legal organizations – maybe because there just isn’t any money in trying to sue school districts for daring to cancel the annual cross barbeque/minstral show fundraiser. Or more likely keeping White kids from wearing Confederate flag t-shrts – pretty much most people have figured out that after the “Bong Hits for Jesus” case schools can restrict disruptive free speech – and there is just no money in filing losing cases.
And filing annoyance law suits will result in sanctions against you which could run into the thousands of dollars. Judges do not like people who waste their time – and when you make a judge mad repeatedly, you are going to be facing contempt of court charges. Repeately filing harassment law suits might even open you up to criminal charges.
But other than that, good strategy
#13 Comment By ModerateMike On January 19, 2012 @ 11:51 am
Jason, if you are just pretending to be an extremist in order to make the WN movement look foolish, or simply enjoy getting people riled up, then I have to admit that your act has been pretty convincing up until now. But your most recent post seems a bit too over the top even for a committed WN; do you really expect me to believe that you think right-wingers should be filing lawsuits around the clock just to irk the left?
Still, there must be some reason why you visit this site. Otherwise, you would have already followed your own advice by paying no attention whatsoever to SPLC.
#14 Comment By Jack Wolford On January 19, 2012 @ 12:17 pm
Not everyone that lives in Georgia is a jerk. Please take my word for it .
#15 Comment By Clay Williams On January 19, 2012 @ 1:47 pm
Someone notify Donald Trump…he’ll want to get in on this…he is running far behind his needed press exposure. Its causing him to lose his hair!!
#16 Comment By Marquis On January 19, 2012 @ 2:17 pm
Im not surprised some people will never be able to except a Blackman is the POTUS. Their hate is so strong it clouds their thinking/Judgement. If they are foolish enough to think a mixed child born in the 50′s in a Africa country had se connection with some highly ranked white friends who knew he would one day grow up to be the POTUS then let them believe it. Bless their poor souls:)
#17 Comment By hardhat On January 19, 2012 @ 4:24 pm
That very questionable B.C. was only released because of a book that was to be released “Where is the Birth Certificate?’. He was forced to do something/anything.
I am in question of B.H.O.’s upbringing. Was he ever ever raised in a black environment? Me thinks not. I do not think he can relate to blacks except to get votes because they vote for someone who “looks like them: Sorry Charlie! If you trade your freedom for a crust of bread, then you deserve neither.
#18 Comment By hardhat On January 19, 2012 @ 5:33 pm
Mr. marquis…I would have voted for Herman, but he bowed out too soon. I wish he would have not given in to the Establishment.
#19 Comment By hardhat On January 19, 2012 @ 5:40 pm
To Mr. Moderate Mike,
There are others who mant a good balance.
#20 Comment By Tax Payer On January 19, 2012 @ 7:32 pm
Lawsuits,
I really don’t understand all of the one sided talk about frivolous lawsuits. The majority of you voted in a President that you didn’t have a clue about. His background and upbringing is in question. The people he associates with and even the amount of money he spends to hide his past. The Democratic committee should have done the homework prior to appointing him. Nobody in their right mind would spend so much money unless there was something to hide. Look at Arizona why is the Federal Government suing Arizona? Federal Governments usually don’t sue states. “frivolous” Our money at work
#21 Comment By Aron On January 19, 2012 @ 10:27 pm
Tax Payer,
States don’t usually enact laws that contradict federal law. QED.
#22 Comment By Ruslan Amirkhanov On January 20, 2012 @ 2:55 am
“His background and upbringing is in question. The people he associates with and even the amount of money he spends to hide his past.”
Oh do tell.
#23 Comment By A.D.M. On January 20, 2012 @ 7:25 am
Tax Payer, how do you know everybody here voted for Obama? I did not vote for him for I knew he would be a continuation of George W. Bush.
#24 Comment By Concerned Citizen On January 20, 2012 @ 7:44 am
People have a right to sue, but most cases these lawsuits don’t mean a hill of beans. Liberals are at fault just as Conservatives in this country. It’s all about power, control and manipulating the American people with their propaganda warfare.
#25 Comment By ModerateMike On January 20, 2012 @ 11:21 am
“Look at Arizona why is the Federal Government suing Arizona? Federal Governments usually don’t sue states.”
Well, just imagine if the federal government were not empowered to challenge the constitutionality of state laws. In that case, the states could virtually nullify constitutional rights with complete impunity. If a state government were to pass a law making criticism of its governor a punishable offense, and the federal government challenged it, I would call that money well-spent.
#26 Comment By Doug On January 20, 2012 @ 9:08 pm
An amalgamation of radical leftists who sue at the drop of a hat are critical of conservatives who sue to protect rather than destroy the Constitution and the rights of the American people. Sounds just about right for a Morris Dees operation.
#27 Comment By Aron On January 21, 2012 @ 2:53 pm
Hey Doug,
Where were you conservatives when the USA-Patriot Act was passed though? You sure did a GREAT job protecting the Constitution on that one…
Blowhard.
#28 Comment By wally barrett On January 22, 2012 @ 1:15 pm
I must have too much time on my hands as I read all the comments and was left breathless laughing myself to the floor by some of you folks comments. Does anyone read or study anymore? 5 hours (or more) of T.V. a day is mandatory, especially in the south?Then a few more hours listening to talk radio. The Constitution is a fairly brief, very concise, well written document that most everyone should be able to grasp. Southern white folks (white folks are “my” people) have difficulty getting ahold of the human decency parts, still believing that slavery is a “States Right” and that Black folk should stay in “their” place and for sure not have the right to vote. The laws on frivolous lawsuits are pretty clear, even in places like Miss, Texass, Georgia, Florida and the like. The procedure to qualify as a Presidential candidate is another pretty “simple” read, while the investigation is long and deep. They have yet to make a mistake with one of those investigations. Thank you SPLC, we need you more and more, which is proven beyond a doubt by the postings.
#29 Comment By hardhat On January 23, 2012 @ 6:15 am
looks like the case for B.H.O. in Georgia is going forward.
#30 Comment By Ithink On January 23, 2012 @ 11:35 am
I really don’t understand all of the one sided talk about frivolous lawsuits. The majority of you voted in a President that you didn’t have a clue about. His background and upbringing is in question. The people he associates with and even the amount of money he spends to hide his past. The Democratic committee should have done the homework prior to appointing him. Nobody in their right mind would spend so much money unless there was something to hide. Look at Arizona why is the Federal Government suing Arizona? Federal Governments usually don’t sue states. “frivolous” Our money at work~Taxpayer~
Maybe the reason the post would appear as ‘doublespeak’ to yourself is that all the questions and suspicions of his birth and lineage have already been answered, and in certifiable empirical evidence. You reich-wing nutter butters keep changing the goal posts and dress up your knee-deep racist and nativist sentiments in ‘legitimate questioning’ or political debate when it manifestly is nothing of the sort. If and when you guys get shellackled in the November election for selecting Mittens or Newt the Toad Gingrich as a presidential candidate, at least you have nobody to blame but yourselves…
#31 Comment By combatvet On January 23, 2012 @ 5:20 pm
SPLC- Sellout Pathetic Liar Center home of the OBOT mutant training facility. The basis for your radical existence is spreading Communism and in doing so shredding the Constitution to fit your vile agenda. As for the numb nut on here who thinks the states can’t trump the federal government, think again. Try reading the tenth amendment. Arizona passed an anti-illegal immigration law that, word for word, mirrors the federal law. The feds and your boy the usurper refuse to put an end to the act of war occurring on our Southern border. Inaction by the feds demands action by the states and is wholly constitutional. Treason and sedition are impeachable offenses and ignoring a massive infiltration of our sovereign border (an act of war) and gun running. Operation Fast and Furious by the federal government, an unconstitutional act under orders from the DOJ and White House, are capital offenses. States rights trump that of the fed. Read the founding documents, your miserable excuses for human beings. Better we send you sell outs over to Afghanistan and bring our brothers back, who are putting all on the line for a nation and founding you mutant liberals hate. The Afghani’s are looking for coward pushovers for target practice!
#32 Comment By hardhat On January 23, 2012 @ 6:06 pm
Let the case go forward!!! Barry has too many names. Different names could mean different alias. Barry lived in too many countries. We all know that! No records. We all know that also. ‘Man Up Barry”. Show yourself. Come clean if you have nothing to hide.
#33 Comment By hardhat On January 23, 2012 @ 6:15 pm
combatvet …i hope you will be protecting my behind in the near future.This bunch here will be looking for gov’mint help.
#34 Comment By Ruslan Amirkhanov On January 23, 2012 @ 8:53 pm
Alright “combatvet”, first of all, I hardly think hours spent playing Call of Duty: Black Ops qualifies one as a combat veteran. Second, where have you seen evidence that the SPLC promotes Communism? Third, what, according to you, is Communism? Fourth, the Arizona immigration law does not “mirror federal law” and only the federal government can regulate immigration. Fifth, illegal immigration does not constitute an “invasion” nor an “act of war.” Sixth, the claim that states rights trump that of the federal government was put to the test before, and decided in favor of the federal government, in the case of CSA v. United States of America in 1861-65, the decision favoring the USA. Seventh, why do you call liberals cowards while simultaneously accusing them of being bloodthirsty Communists who are persecuting you poor conservatives. Are you struggling under the iron heel of a bunch of cowards and hippies? What does that make you then? And finally- USE PARAGRAPH BREAKS, like they taught you in elementary school.
#35 Comment By Ruslan Amirkhanov On January 24, 2012 @ 8:45 am
“Let the case go forward!!! Barry has too many names. Different names could mean different alias. Barry lived in too many countries. We all know that! No records. We all know that also. ‘Man Up Barry”. Show yourself. Come clean if you have nothing to hide.”
BS. He doesn’t have “too many names”, and he has released all records, many of which have been attested to by third parties. If Obama is part of some great conspiracy, and he’s not eligible to be president, don’t you think the conspirators could have found a puppet who’s obviously 100% all-American? Are these conspirators super-geniuses or morons?
I can’t stand it when nutcases like you force me to defend Obama.
#36 Comment By Gregory On January 24, 2012 @ 1:34 pm
combatvet adivses:
” Read the founding documents, your miserable excuses for human beings.”
If you did the same you might notice that sedition is not mentioned in the US Constitution or the Declaration of Independence. Presumably those are the founding documents you referenced. Therefore, your argument that sedition is an impeachable offense should be uniquely amusing.
As for treason, mentioned seven times in the Constitution, I would direct you to Article 3 Section 3. Please tell us how that is applicable in this particular case. Take your time, it is an open book exam.
#37 Comment By Gregory On January 24, 2012 @ 1:46 pm
My comment was truncated for some reason.
Anyway, unless you are willing to cover sedition under the blanket label of High Crimes and Misdemeanors then you are running in circles.
#38 Comment By hardhat On January 24, 2012 @ 2:32 pm
Amirk,
Oh really? Barry, Barak, whatever/whoever has released all records. Where can I find them? This is amazing.
#39 Comment By hardhat On January 24, 2012 @ 2:49 pm
Amirk,
If there are conspirators, they have a flouride drinking, vaccine taking, medication generation to laugh at for gobbling up the junk that the press-ta-tutes feed them. Do u disagree?
I am not a nutcase if you please.Sounds as if your name is from another country. Do you care about this country and do you want to see it radically changed?
#40 Comment By Aron On January 24, 2012 @ 9:09 pm
Oh, this is going to be fun!
I can’t wait to see Ruslan DESTROY ‘hardhat.’
#41 Comment By Ruslan Amirkhanov On January 24, 2012 @ 10:00 pm
Hardhat, a few years ago they invented this thing called Google. There you can find the short form birth certificate which was provided, you can see the governor of Hawaii and the secretary of public health attesting to its authenticity. You can see the newspaper clippings announcing his birth in 1961. You can see when he released his long form certificate. You have access to all this information and yet you ignore it because it would upset your little conspiracy theory. Deep down you know that you have to actively ignore a lot of evidence otherwise the whole thing falls apart.
And for the record, this is not my real name and I’m not from another country so let’s can the xenophobia. Judging from your fear of vaccines and fluoride, it would seem like you never met a conspiracy theory you didn’t like. You have to admit though, this conspiracy about Obama is simply idiotic.
#42 Comment By caveman On January 25, 2012 @ 3:36 pm
I find it very curious in all the photos of Obama’s birth certificate one or two small details are missing. (1) the seal of the state of Hawaii and (2) if not the original which would have the seal, a certified copy seal. Not sure if anyone has pondered these missing pieces or not but the certified copies I have of my birth certificate has both and copies of my fathers Florida birth certificate from 1936 has them. I guess Hawaii just doesn’t bother with things like certifications and non sense like that.
#43 Comment By Ruslan Amirkhanov On January 25, 2012 @ 4:29 pm
I find it curious that you’ve never seen this: [2]
Looks like there’s a seal of the state of Hawaii on that there document!
Burden of proof is on you to explain this whole conspiracy; how the governor and secretary of health of Hawaii are lying, how all these judges are violating the law, how they managed to insert announcements of Obama’s birth into newspapers from 1961, and so on.
#44 Comment By Kiwiwriter On January 25, 2012 @ 6:36 pm
Nice smackdowns, Ruslan.
#45 Comment By hardhat On January 25, 2012 @ 8:37 pm
R.A.
Is that where you got your proof? Pitiful, simply pitiful. Have you ever heard of Neil Abercrombie? Probably not. Have you even bothered to read about the twin daughters born to the Nordykes at the Kapi’olani Hospital one day after the purported day of obama’s birth? Their COLB has much more information. You probably skipped over that one. Did you even bother to listen to a former senior elections clerk for Honolulu, Tim Adams that signed a notorized affidavit swearing that there was no long form hospital generated birth certificate on file at/with the Hawaii Dept. of Health and that also neither hospitals had any record of him being born at either of their facilities.Why hasn’t a doctor or nurse come forward? Seems that a President born in either of the hospitals would be a big deal, at least just to satisify the crazy proofers. Who is the missing doctor?
Now we have the previous Director of Health Dr. C. Fukino issuing a statement June 27, 2009. verifying that she had seen the “original” records that were on file. Strangly, obama’s friend, Abercrombie who wanted to put the birther issue to rest is claiming he can not find the original records.Ooops!!!!
Do you know what a Certificate of Live Birth is? If not, let me enlighten you. It means that a child was born alive. This could mean that the grandparents, Stanley and Madelyn were both living in Hawaii at the time, and they were indeed, gave testimony to the birth which would have been all that was needed for the production of the COLB. This would trigger the 2 newspaper announcements from the ‘Honolulu Advertiser” and the” Honolulu Star- Bulletin” that would come from the Dept. of Health. Both birth announcements are identical in both papers. The address of the birth announcements belong to the grandparents. The Nordyke twins announcement was identical except it listed twin daughters on Aug 5th, whereas obama’s listed a son, Aug 4th. 1961. Was this your smoking gun? Which of the 2 hospitals was he born in. There are claims to being born in Kapi’olani and also Queen’s Medical Center. How can this possibly be? More discrepencies. BTW, I saw a COLB issued August 7, 1969 that listed a doctor from the state of Hawaii. Seems obama can not determine where he was born at. Poor dude only has a COLB with no hospital or doctor. This should restrict him from getting a passport.
Did you see June 27, 2004 “Sunday Standard” published in Kenya? Probably missed that one as well. I will help you out.” Kenyan-born Obama all set for U.S. Senate”. Hummmm??? Oops. Darn those blabber-mouths!
I took you advice and googled obama birth certificate and bout fell out of my chair laughing. Appears it is mostly about a forged document with many layers. Did you catch that? Probably not. I think you should do the same and google it as well.I think it is you who is actively ignoring the facts because it would shatter your little obama-bot world.
#46 Comment By hardhat On January 25, 2012 @ 8:43 pm
Aron,
Go get out one of your old watches, wind it up and listen to it tick.
#47 Comment By Aron On January 26, 2012 @ 8:31 am
Hardhat,
I’m listening to it right now. Unlike my watches, YOU are simply full of hot air.
#48 Comment By caveman On January 26, 2012 @ 3:38 pm
Thanks,
Comrad Amerika-nov you just made my point. Why don’t you review the pictures of the documents you just sent and tell me, where are the raised seals, that are present on all the other certificates I’ve seen? Furthermore when you go looking for the proof you will find articles on this very subject. The more lies one tells the more elaborate the lies he must tell to cover up the original lie.
#49 Comment By hardhat On January 26, 2012 @ 6:42 pm
caveman,
These are obama zombies…no amount of info will help them. It is fun though to get them slobbering mad.
The first person to question obo’s questionable past was Hillary! She was the first so called ‘birther”.The second was obo himself to question John McCain. It is an amazing thing that Hillary got the 4th most important position in the United States from a dude she ran against. I am sure there were some deals made there.
Your points can not be argued.They will just spin them here.
Aron, Your comeback was weak. Dumb. Go away.
Ruslan, where are you? Doing abit of investigation? Finally. You may learn something.Take off your blinders.
Kiwiwriter..smackdown? Whose?
#50 Comment By Aron On January 27, 2012 @ 8:51 am
Hardhat,
I seem to recall we once had a semi-civil discussion regarding ‘Southern Heritage.’ I wonder what you did with that person?
And I’m not taking your bait regarding my ‘comeback.’ In the grown-up world, we call those kinds of remarks ‘retorts.’ Good luck in middle school.
#51 Comment By caveman On January 27, 2012 @ 9:23 am
Hardhat,
I wonder how Obama manages to poses them the way he does, perhaps they are all on some kind of entitlement program and would hate to lose their income.
#52 Comment By JPotter On January 27, 2012 @ 10:21 pm
A caveman wearing a hardhat a’birfin’ away on the interwebs! What an image! :-D
#53 Comment By JPotter On January 27, 2012 @ 10:23 pm
Gosh, Patrick, the board of directors page at SLRC is suddenly 404!!!
Busted they are.
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#54 Comment By Horus On January 28, 2012 @ 11:42 am
“If and when you guys get shellackled in the November election for selecting Mittens or Newt the Toad Gingrich as a presidential candidate, at least you have nobody to blame but yourselves…”
They will claim he won by Voter Fraud, they are already hyping that fallacy.