That was one of the best posts I’ve read on Hatewatch in quite some time. Very well written.

In participating in these online debates, my goal is to try to civilize the discourse so that a real exchange of ideas and concepts can be heard, considered and debated without rancor and a minimum of ideological or personal mud slinging. We are evolving into a society that minimizes civility and tolerance of difference of opinions and ways of life. The willingness to analyze a complex problem or predicament and resist simplistic explanations that are driven by opinion or ideology versus facts/effect are rampant, even among the so called “educated” population. Much easier it seems to demean and denigrate an opponent versus honest consideration of their point of view and a willingness to meet/debate them at the idea/concept level.

Some friends of mine, a hard-working couple who happened to be undocumented immigrants, had saved enough money to purchase a home in 2006. What they did not realize was that their mortgage was one of the infamous “subprime” loans that started off with a low interest rate, but increased dramatically after the first year; their rate jumped from 4 to 10 percent if I remember correctly. Despite this new financial hardship, however, both parents took on additional jobs, and they were able to avoid foreclosure. Then came a much harder blow: the federal crack-down on illegal immigration that began around the same time seemed to have emboldened the police department in my town, and it was not long before the police stopped the husband while he was riding his bicycle. The officer didn’t mince words, telling him that he had been ordered to stop and question Hispanics about their immigration status, and to arrest anyone who could not provide proof of legal residency. The police booked him into the county jail (I don’t even know what they charged him with), and released him 3 days later after his wife posted bail, but not before notifying ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement). Ultimately, he wound up in immigration court, but his attorney convinced the court that the consequences of deporting him would be too devastating for his family. The court instead granted him a temporary visa that requires annual review; his immigration case is still open, and he could still be deported when his kids grow up, but he remains in the country for the time being, and he and his family are still in their house.

So what did “we” win as a result of not ejecting this man? Here’s what:

1) The lender is still receiving mortgage payments.Defaults on this type of loan were at least one of the catalysts of the economic crisis, and I suspect that the detentions and deportations of homeowners didn’t help things.
2) The county is still collecting property tax from the couple, which is escrowed into the monthly house payment.
3) The couple keep their home and their lawn immaculate, so it is a visual asset to the community.
4) I still see the family at the store, handing money to the cashier like everyone else and keeping the business running and the staff employed. And yes, they get charged sales tax.
5) The husband is working strictly “on the grid”. I don’t know if he was dodging income taxes before, but he definitely isn’t now.
6) The kids are getting guidance and discipline from their parents so that they can grow into responsible members of the community.
Folks, it’s time to put whatever resentment you feel toward immigrants for sneaking into the country behind you, and consider what you are throwing away.

Deep Ecology, your points are refreshingly thoughtful and eloquent, and I wish that people like you and Ruslan had been at the forefront of the immigration debate before it became so mindlessly cruel. But keep in mind that the U.S. waited until after so many people had put down firm roots here before it started to throw the book at them. If you are at all unsure that this is a wise policy, then please join me in urging our leaders to declare a moratorium on deportations and discuss immigration reform once again.

I would only ask that you be wary of absolutes and framing every opinion through an ideological looking glass. In my research, travels, and personal correspondence with many around the world, I have yet to find a one size fits all, reductionist universal theory that one could apply to all people, all nations, all the time.

The US is a propositional nation-state, materialist-capitalist, and built on layers of immigrants from all walks of life and ethnic backgrounds. Unique really, from the perspective of the majority of nation-states around the world. The Japanese, mono-cultural and more than a little xenophobic, would not benefit from immigration and in light of their cultural conservatism, reject any large influx of anybody other than expat Japanese from returning. Just wouldn’t work with their strong identarian groupthink.

Oh boy, the day’s never quite completed until we have to repair a cognitive aneurysm on your part, is it? Ignoring your projection that makes an Imax theatre seem like a keychain flashlight, remember who purchases the supermajority of illegal drugs from Mexico that keeps those violent cartles and corrupt politicians ravaging generations of decent and hardworking citizens, who have nothing to do but immigrate from what is non-viable life there.
ALSO OF NOTE: Illegal Immigrants (and most legalized, temporary immigrants) CANNOT collect any form of government welfare in the U.S. by law, not it’d be anything to make sustained use of if they could. And even if they are doing it, given that the Obama administration has almost interred and deported more illegals than his four predacessors combined already, it would seem that again, your assumption jumps straight off the cliff of logic into the sea of infallible dumbassery…

However, in measuring economic factors, remember that growth and prosperity, while frequently said in the same sentence by politicians and corporate-capitalists in the same sentence, are two very different sides of the economic picture.

There are winners and losers in the immigration debate, to describe any global issue in such simplistic terms seems a little below your demonstrated analytical skills.

I don’t doubt it, but the people seem to have decided that it is better to act first and analyze later. Deportations and state-level anti-immigrant legislation were already ramping up before the 2010 Census was complete.

Fact: Illegal immigrants(and some legal immigrants) are not eligible to collect already meager welfare benefits. Jason is an idiot.

Again, obsess over immigration, don’t check the immigration laws. This is why we call these people ignorant morons.

Not some, not many, not a lot, but the MAJORITY!

Citation needed. And no, “I read it on Stormfront” doesn’t count.

YWC’s precursor Young Americans for Freedom chapter at MSU collapsing after it’s leader Bristow left to be a hate novelist in Toledo.

Hopefully with the graduation of this xenophobic Van Wilder YWC meets the same fate.

Reality: This is one of the biggest lies the left-wing and media perpetrate. The majority of immigrants do not come to the US hoping to do hard work. The majority come to collect welfare. Not some, not many, not a lot, but the MAJORITY!

Although I may create another YWC, Youngsters Want Candy. It has a much more universal appeal.

And it isn’t staffed entirely by asshats.