Like most of the other contributors to this thread, Aron, you are being intellectually dishonest. Mothman makes a valid point, and Darwin’s observations were accurate. There indeed are marked differences between races, on both physical and intellectual levels. Why is that so hard for people to be honest about and to accept? And, subsequently, to move past? No racial superiority rant here – just simple scientific observation.

Most “Americans” I know, whatever their racial origins, are fed up with state-sponsored racial programs that cater to specific races. These programs create division, resentment, and are all-too-often abused by those they are targeted towards. NOTHING good comes of them. Moreover, many people are simply fed up with state-sponsored “multiculturalism” in general. They ask, “Why is it constantly being shoved down our throats?” And the more it’s forced on them, the more they resent it. Also, let’s be honest – it DOESN’T work. Humans are tribal by nature. Sorry – it’s that simple. We instinctively gravitate towards those we are most similar to, racially and otherwise. (Yes, that infers differences, doesn’t it? Don’t you just love logic?) Ultimately, as a collective, we desperately need to accept these simple facts.

When we choose to ignore scientific observations simply because they don’t fit “modern” social or political status quos (or personal agendas, for that matter), we are comitting an act of cowardice. We are hiding from the truth. All too popular a practice, in this day and age.

You personally, Aron, chose to ignore reasonably valuable information, and countered with flimsy arguments (your “social science” argument was amusing), and then hurled insults at everyone whom you disagreed with. Ah, but it’s so easy to just exclaim, “Racist!”, rather than to look at things logically, isn’t it? You *can* do better.

Sadly, I can count on one hand the people I have met in my lifetime that analyze situations and data in essentially an unvarnished, purely logical manner. Try it some time – it’s amazing what you will find, IF you succeed. But, alas, don’t expect to be popular for doing so, should you succeed. (Don’t worry – it’s well worth it)

Good Day.

Darwin published in 1871. Social science was just a LITTLE bit different back then. And James Watson is widely regarded as a racist ass who says things very few people agree with.

Much like yourself.

If race doesn’t matter why did Charles Darwin say it did? Why did the co-discoverer of DNA, James Watson, admit that Blacks are not the equals of Whites intellectually?

Oh wait. You can’t. LOLOLOL!!!

Can you imagine if some European Americans came rushing through the SPLC building smashing heads of the Israeli Firsters?

STFU!

See how short this message is and how I got my point across?

Organizing against hate is like performing surgery: there are a few correct ways to do it and a whole bunch of incorrect ways to do it.

Also he may be dismayed to find out that when identifying nationalities in Russia, that is describing someone by appearance, Russians do not use terms like “white”. There is “Slavic” appearance, Central Asian, Asiatic, and Caucasian. “White” is a foreign concept brought by people who copied the skinhead culture from abroad. It’s not native to this society and it never will be. Russians also insist that they are not European, and Europeans seem to agree.

Yes it would be nice if we all could be more civil towards one another in America. It’s unfortunate when one group starts employing these methods it appears to me that the start of these methods will lead to the opposing groups dishing it right back at them.

Oh yeah? Tell that to all of our brothers and sisters suffering from white oppression in the State of Arizona, tell that to the mother of Brisenia Flores…don’t fool yourselves with your liberal pacifist hogwash…these groups are extreme and they are out to murder. If you want to sit idly by and read story after story in Hatewatch and nod your head and say “that’s terrible” but then do nothing about it…that’s entirely your business. But you’re are in no position to judge activists like those in the ARA when you sit and do nothing but complain bitterly on an internet forum, the message was sent loud and clear through this action. Nowhere does it state that innocent bystanders were injured, the losses to the restaurant itself are highly regrettable and they will be held accountable for that through the courts. As for the idea that these things are better left to the police, do you people not read story after story of police collusion, and even active cover-ups by police departments throughout the entire country? I heartily applaud the action against these scumbags, and I say that this was a learning experience, no they didn’t do everything right but maybe next time they will be much better prepared. No pasaran, pasaremos!

Heres some tips for you guys…

1.) Let THEM start it, sit in the booth next to them and joke loudly about all the “white guys that could not keep their women from dating blacks” or some other viewpoint that, while you don’t hold true to them, would get the WN’s foaming at the mouth, if you want you can even study the local laws and plan “accidents” such as spilling a drink or “tripping” and knocking over a motorcycle (remember NO physical harm can come to them, yet), they WILL confront/threaten you, and then, you are well within your rights to defend yourself

2.) NEVER allow your fight to harm innocents or WN’s that would not be seen as a threat to you in the eyes of the law (again study your local self defense statutes well before your first hunt)

3.) Keep up the good work!

Actually moron, Tatars and Uzbeks are Turks, not “Mongoloids”, and that goes for appearance as well, especially if we are talking about Tatars.

“Please don’t insult the actual white Eastern Europeans, Citizen.”

First of all, Eastern Europeans were considered “white” only in recent history. The 1924 Immigration Act in the US, for example, nearly cut off immigration from Eastern and Southern Europe. If you’re talking about Eastern Europe outside of the former Soviet Union, you had better watch your mouth before informing Poles, Croats, Serbs, etc. that they are all “white”. The most nationalistic of these groups is far more concerned with being a Pole, Croat, or Serb than “white”, a term which has little meaning outside of the US and the other colonial “offshoots”.

Second, the Tatars had formed a state in what is now Russia before the Slavic Russians did, a feat the latter could accomplish only via the assistance of the Scandinavians. More importantly, Moscow grew to prominence due to the Golden Horde. Russians don’t like to acknowledge this, but they are too smart to deny it.

Lastly, when you speak of “insulting” the real white Eastern Europeans, keep in mind that like it or not, Russians and Ukrainians, to name a couple, have Turkic mixtures in their past and a lot of Turkic influence on their language. It is not at all uncommon to find full-fledged Tatars who appear totally European(see Chulpan Akhmatova, who plays in Goodbye Lenin, for an example), while there are many Russians who look more Asiatic in appearance. I really don’t see how this makes one worth more or less than the other. There is little evidence to support that more European Russians have, by virtue of their more European genes, led this country more wisely than others. The Romanovs(who had some Germanic roots), Gorbachev, Yeltsin…They all led Russia to ruin.

” But this “Ruslan” does claim to be white =)”

Indeed, for the simple fact that this is not my name.

“Soooo…. what about them? With dropping of nuclear bombs on Japan,”

The dropping of the atomic bomb is a complicated issue which on one hand was unnecessarily brutal, while on the other hand could have very well been due to a translation mistake in regards to surrender negotiations. This does not justify Japan’s aggression and imperialism from 1931 onward.

“terror bombing of Germany”

Gee, I guess using terror bombing against Guernica, Warsaw, Rotterdam, Belgrade, Coventry, London, Athens, Leningrad, and Stalingrad was a REAL bad idea considering the Allies’ superior production, was it not?

They opened the door.

” and not to mention the bestial brutality perpetrated against the civilians and POWs of those countries both during and post-war, all the Allies proved in the end that they had _better_weapons_ to commit mass murder with than the Axis.”

Again, everything that was done to Germany at the end of the war was done BY Germany, often with greater severity, prior to 1944 when the war began to push the Germans back to their borders. Ask the Poles, ask the Ukrainians, ask the Russians, and the Belorussians.

” Makes me all the more glad that none of my ancestors or their relatives on either side of my family had taken part in neither of the two intra-European mass slaughters (aka WWI and WWII).”

You think that these were the only two intra-European mass slaughters? You’ve got a lot of reading to do. Check out the Seven Years War, the Thirty Years War, the Wars of Spanish Succession, to name just a few.

“Reading your impeccable words of wisdom and logic, it reminds me – you being our resident expert on all things Islamic,Turkic and Mongoloid that you are, would you mind contacting this poor excuse for a journalist Breffni O’Rourke and remind her that Uyghurs are straight-up, 100% Chinese and are most certainly not “an ethnic Turkic people who are by tradition Muslim, and who feel more kinship with the peoples of Central Asia than with the Han Chinese” ?”

Uh, why? For one thing, the Chinese Muslim identity is very complex. Some are indeed assimilated, and some are quite Turkic and it shows. It should be noted that early Chinese records of the Kyrgyz Turks, for example, describe them as having reddish hair and green eyes. Anthropological study shows that Turkic peoples had a variety of phenotypes including something very “European” looking, and one can find examples of this today.

In any case, Chinese Muslim should not be treated as synonymous with Uygur or Turk. I honestly don’t know why you even brought this up.

” And that nor do they got ANYTHING in common with the Uzbeks, Turkomen or Kazakhs or anyone else from Central Asia, as this article so erroneously suggests.”

Well first of all, it’s Radio Free Europe, so I don’t know why you’d take any of that seriously. If they are ever right about something, it’s a busted clock scenario. But I would say that claiming they have nothing in common with Uzbeks or particularly Kazakhs(which live on both sides of the border anyway) is a bit extreme.

One major factor determining cultural differences is whether or not we’re talking about a population which lived in the USSR or not. The USSR and China had different nationalities policies.

“tell this crazy Chinese woman, Rebiya Kadeer and all the other so-called “Uyghurs”, to stop resisting and complaining about the “Sinicization” of their alleged homeland and embrace being Chinese.”

The Han have been exporting their culture to other peoples and including them for centuries. The modern Uygur of today may be Turkic, but they are a far cry from the original Uygurs no doubt.

I think I see where you are going with this, and it’s not going to work. See, Han and Uygur are nationalities, not “races”. Second, to understand Chinese nationality policy one needs to study not only that policy but understand a simple thing about the Chinese language. In China, anyone- Mongol(there are more Mongols there than in Mongolia), Manchu, Uygur, Tatar, etc. can identify themselves as “Zhongguo ren”, or “China person” literally(yeah, that’s where ‘Chinaman’ most likely came from). Zhongguo(Middle Country) means China but is not always synonymous with Han ethnically.

What you are also not considering is that China has policies which FAVOR national minorities. In addition to forms of self-government at all kinds of level(province, town, village, etc.), China has preferential treatment in higher education for minorities, and minorities are mostly exempt from the one-child policy. China’s policies, for example, led to a boom in the Manchu population. However, this was not so much because Manchus started having lots of children, but because the inclusive politics of China caused more Manchu people to identify themselves as such, including those of mixed Manchu heritage.

“The whole “race” and “culture” thing is just skin deep. So what if their eyes aren’t as slanted as that of the Han Chinese majority?”

In your attempt to make a point based on a faulty analogy, you shoot yourself in the foot. First off, as I said, not all Chinese Muslims(known as Hui) are Uygur. Muslims aren’t really supposed to care about race or ethnicity(doesn’t mean this always happens in practice of course).

What it seems you are trying to do is compare this to the situation of “whites” in the US. Well there are a few problems with this.

1. The Han are something like 91% of the Chinese population. There is no logical reason to believe that “whites” in America would ever drop to 9% of the American population or less. If it ever got close to that we’d probably have a very different perception of who is “white”, since that definition has changed radically since its appearance in common usage around the late 17th-early 18th century.

2. White does not translate to Uygur, Kazakh, Uzbek, etc. “White” is a supra-national artificial identifier now used by some to refer to Europeans. So if you complain about whites being assimilated in America by a massive colored horde, I could complain about European minorities such as Czechs, Slovaks, Hungarians, etc. being assimilated by the larger WASP groups. In fact, many larger groups such as the Irish were practically assimilated this way.

3. Radio Free Europe is, as it was, still basically a propaganda network which is pro-Europe, pro-US. It has a long history of giving a speaking platform to nationalists and separatists who serve the interests of its patrons. I’m not going to deny that there are still nationality issues in China, but I’m not going to so readily credit the claims of that network because I’m familiar with their nonsense.

4. Turkic culture, especially that of Central Asia, has a LOT of influence from China which dates back to the first appearance of Turkic peoples in history. The Turkic pre-Islamic traditions were clearly influenced by Confucianism and the idea of the “Mandate of Heaven.” The music of Central Asia and even Tatarstan, far to the north, sounds far closer to traditional Chinese music than that of the Anatolian Turks.

” All people are one and the same, and the Turkics too should be getting this memo as they are being demographically displaced.”

Nobody is claiming people are the same. Again, “whites”, specifically American whites, do not equal Uygurs.

“As per your amazing logic, the Uyghurs would NOT be Turkic, and they have no kinship with the “-stans” of Central Asia. They _are_ _just_ Chinese.”

Incorrect. For one thing, Europe and America are an ocean apart, geographically. America’s history, economic life, religions, values, etc. are radically different than those of Europe. In the case of Central Asian Turks living on the border with China, some of these populations straddled the border. Some cultural differences appeared(such as Kazakhs speaking Russian, or Chinese Tatars still using an Arabic based alphabet while all the others started using Cyrillic), but Turkic culture tends to have very similar features depending on the region.

And again, these are all nationalities, some of them quite contrived as well. Most Central Asian Turkic populations assimilated the previous Persian culture and were mixed in with that population(Tajik).

So I’m very sorry but even if these claims of RFERL were true, they would not be analogous to what you claim is happening to “whites”, and if it was, I could claim that some “white” groups would try to displace others, since there is a long history of this both inside of Europe and in the US.

Sorry for the long post but like the Nazis, you opened the door. I also suppose you tried to bring up this Uygur issue because you think I’m Turkic, that it would strike some chord with me, and then you’d trap me in some kind of hypocrisy. Sorry, but you people are just too predictable.

Thanks!! =)

Well at least one regular contributor here (@ Ruslan) had it partially right in one of his many posts where he states “The messed up thing is that from the account, it seems as if their behavior may have injured some of the innocent patrons who had no idea that a WN meeting was going on.” Too bad he had to continue on with unrelated rhetoric after that statement.

It does not matter that those who were assaulted claimed to be from the White Nationalist racist right, nor does it even matter that their alleged ARA attackers believed themselves to be doing right in their cause of fighting the evil forces of racism.

What should matter to all of us is that you have one group of individuals who decide to meet in a very open and public setting where the attendance of unsuspecting citizens had to be a given. And you have a second group that decides to commit a violent act upon the first group in the very same open and public setting where the attendance of unsuspecting citizens had to be a given.

Geez guys…we have one group of individuals here with their basic identities concealed fearing what…future retribution, apprehension, and the possibility of prison time for their acts, who with premeditation and malice decided they need to attack others with weapons in a very public setting. At what point did these idiots think that grandma and grandpa, mom and dad, and possibly children might be eating there and attended to by restaurant staff. That’s just it…they did not because they did not care!

They did not care if innocent citizens were hurt nor that they caused upwards of $20,000 in damages to a private business as their main concern was to cross state lines to perpetrate a violent act upon a perceived enemy, and then secondly to safely flee the scene before police could arrest and incarcerate them for further prosecution.

Perhaps the group of misfit WN diners got what they deserved, I do not know nor do I care. But I certainly cannot condone the actions of these alleged ARA members. Nor would I condone such violence by any individual, group, or organization, where innocent citizens could be hurt through such ludicrous actions.

What the hell were they thinking? I am thinking Guilty as charged!

With the exception of people like Shadow Wolf, our ancestors came here from elsewhere, and with the exception of those shanghaied here in chains they came here because they chose to. Americans are the sons and daughters of the enculturated. The Uyghurs, on the other hand, were sitting right where they are when China overran them. I get it. You hate “Mooslins”. Now go over to Jihadwatch or Atlas Shrugs or something and disport yourself.

ON MAY 22ND, 2012 AT 2:55 PM
Ruslan

“By the sound of your name. You must be Russian or Eastern European.”

No, by the sound of his name, he must be a Tatar or an Uzbek, or one of the other Mongoloids of Central Asia. Please don’t insult the actual white Eastern Europeans, Citizen. But this “Ruslan” does claim to be white =)

Ruslan Amirkhanov said,

“Sooooo….What about the Allies then?”

Soooo…. what about them? With dropping of nuclear bombs on Japan, terror bombing of Germany and not to mention the bestial brutality perpetrated against the civilians and POWs of those countries both during and post-war, all the Allies proved in the end that they had _better_weapons_ to commit mass murder with than the Axis. Makes me all the more glad that none of my ancestors or their relatives on either side of my family had taken part in neither of the two intra-European mass slaughters (aka WWI and WWII).

“You’re not “European”, you’re not “Irish”, you’re just American. Start learning to get along with the other Americans.”

Reading your impeccable words of wisdom and logic, it reminds me – you being our resident expert on all things Islamic,Turkic and Mongoloid that you are, would you mind contacting this poor excuse for a journalist Breffni O’Rourke and remind her that Uyghurs are straight-up, 100% Chinese and are most certainly not “an ethnic Turkic people who are by tradition Muslim, and who feel more kinship with the peoples of Central Asia than with the Han Chinese” ? And that nor do they got ANYTHING in common with the Uzbeks, Turkomen or Kazakhs or anyone else from Central Asia, as this article so erroneously suggests.

http://www.rferl.org/content/C.....72366.html

And also;

http://www.rferl.org/content/e.....80040.html

http://www.rferl.org/content/e.....87905.html

tell this crazy Chinese woman, Rebiya Kadeer and all the other so-called “Uyghurs”, to stop resisting and complaining about the “Sinicization” of their alleged homeland and embrace being Chinese. The whole “race” and “culture” thing is just skin deep. So what if their eyes aren’t as slanted as that of the Han Chinese majority? All people are one and the same, and the Turkics too should be getting this memo as they are being demographically displaced. As per your amazing logic, the Uyghurs would NOT be Turkic, and they have no kinship with the “-stans” of Central Asia. They _are_ _just_ Chinese.

Thanks!! =)

I don’t really see a reason to unite on the basis of whiteness, even if we do have shared experiences. Inclusiveness is the key to America’s identity problems.

When I was first researching anthropology, as a twelve-year-old squib, many in the field still thought the human species had originated in Asia, because its greatest diversity was found there. The chances are that all modern supraSaharan races, and some ancient ones, did originate there. There is no “Asian identity”, as there is no “white identity”. Certain Americans referred to as “African-Americans” are so called simply because they share the common background of ancestors who were shanghaied from (mostly) the West African coast into the slave trade, and whose origins were rendered untraceable.

When I am with other people classed as “white”, I feel no particular kinship. At the same time, I have a sharp eye (trained by my early reading) for traits that tell me most “white” people aren’t as “white” as they think they are. That includes myself. You trace all but the most isolated lineages far back enough, and you get a surprise.

Again and again, I have said that there is nothing wrong with frequenting, or belonging to, a national club. What is being celebrated there is shared language, history, folklore, and cuisine. With the exception of the Ukrainians having a truly bad attitude about Russians, I have never seen this lead to any pissiness towards other groups.

I hope this clears things up a bit more.