Hatewatch Tweets
Hatewatch is managed by the staff of the Intelligence Report, an investigative magazine published by the Alabama-based civil rights group Southern Poverty Law Center.
Oath Keeper Sentenced to 30 Years for Daughter’s Rape
Charles Dyer, a former Marine with ties to the antigovernment Oath Keepers, was sentenced to 30 years in prison Tuesday for raping his daughter when she was 6, the Stephens County District Attorney’s office in Oklahoma said.
The sentencing was the final chapter in a case that sparked national attention after Dyer failed to appear for trial last summer and soon afterward issued threatening, conspiracy-theorizing communiqués that left no room to doubt his intentions if police were to catch him.
“I have been pushed to the limits by law enforcement and the judicial system in an attempt to cause me to take violent actions against them,” Dyer wrote in an E-mail to his family after fleeing the reach of law enforcement. “Our judicial system is nothing more than a system of liars and crooks working under the color of the law, where the rich go free and the poor are made to suffer injustice. … Something must be done to expose it.”
The trial in April was Dyer’s third on a single charge of sexual assault of a minor following the allegations that he sodomized his daughter. The first ended with the jury unable to reach a verdict; the second ended in mistrial after the district attorney’s office violated protocol and mailed questionnaires to jurors before the trial had begun.
All the while, Dyer adamantly denied the charges. “I believe in my heart that my daughter is a victim of sexual abuse,” he testified in April. “[But] I’ve never hurt anyone in my life, especially not my daughter.”
on June 5th, 2012 at 6:27 pm
Justice has been served.
on June 5th, 2012 at 9:42 pm
Ryan Lenz,
Its because of people like Charles Dyer, that we actually need a government. This guy is sick, raping his own daughter when she was still a child! He claims he never heart her? Okay, you want to convince us that’s true, your lawyer better create some reasonable doubt that you did what you’re accused off.
on June 6th, 2012 at 10:54 am
Yeah, that’s the kind of guy I would want defending my constitutional rights. F him and the rest of the Oath Keepers. Where the hell were they during 2001-2009?
on June 7th, 2012 at 1:02 pm
As long as SPLC continues to harbor and forward these (politically motivated?) “misconceptions” about a group formed to keep a legal promise to serve and protect the people under constitutional protection, I will continue to protest.
OathKeepers has NOTHING to do with “hate groups” despite -some- right-leaning paranoia in -some- of its membership. There are far more instances per-capita, of shocking criminal background in the TSA than there are in OathKeepers. Far more.
You chose to target OathKeepers and to tar and feather them along with truly hateful groups – you have attempted to place them in the same category – and THAT AIN’T RIGHT.
Once again, OathKeepers was formed to educate its members about their constitutional duties and to support the idea that police and military personnel should resist the abuse of constitutional authority for political purposes – right, left or totalitarian – how simple and sane can that be???
on June 7th, 2012 at 1:18 pm
While I despise the Oath Keepers and right-wing idiots, at the same time innocent until proven guilty IS the law of the land, and I would add that I also would believe in an instant that law enforcement would railroad someone if they could. (2/3 of the times I’ve been stopped since moving to Florida were for bogus reasons). The only thing that goes against him is that the “police” usually railroad minorities, the poor, LGBT people, and if anything, go after anyone with liberal tendencies. It’s normal for the innocent to be punished for the crimes of the wicked.
I would like to know what his daughter says at the very least. In any case, if he’s guilty I hope he gets put under the jail. Innocent, I hope it comes out and he’s freed.
on June 7th, 2012 at 1:22 pm
Scott Gordon… I’ve seen the police used to reinforce racism and to protect the rich from justice, but I’ve never seen them used to protect minorities, or to help LGBT people (for instance), or anything like that. I’ve seen them harass and persecute the poor, but rarely bring justice to the rich (and that usually because the rich person became so offensive and dangerous that letting him or her continue would set off rebellion).
Oath Keepers… the ones I know of… actually will violate the spirit AND the law of the constitution in following religious ideology. That suggests TREASON to me.
on June 7th, 2012 at 1:47 pm
What on earth is Oath Keepers? I thought that was the organization that wanted to keep their wives pregnant once a year, if possible.
Are they now advocating child rape instead, or do they actually believe that their children are also their sex slaves?
It is evident that some backward American men are continually trying to return to an imitation of ancient Hareem living with both slaves and concubines galore.
on June 7th, 2012 at 2:18 pm
I agree with Scott, this alligation has nothing to do with Hatewatch or Oath Keepers. As a 33+ year retired Major Crimes Detective I can tell you that you could fill the internet with cases charging liberal left wingers with all manner of crimes including these sexually perverse types. Billy Aryers, Angila Davis, Ron Karanga, ..and so on. But the American Media ignores these.
Like your bias attacks against the Tea Party and the Arizona Minutemen, your left leaning ideology is showing!
on June 7th, 2012 at 2:38 pm
First, Dyer was asked to leave the Oath Keepers organization when it became clear that his goals were different than those of the organization. Yet you continue to use his story to malign Oath Keepers. This smear tactic of guilt-by-association is the very same sort of thing that YOUR organization normally calls “hate speech.” Your hypocrisy is nauseating.
Second, you keep using the adjective “anti-government” to describe Oath Keepers. This makes no sense. Oath Keepers ARE government employees. Oath Keepers affirm the Constitution – the very charter of our government. Yet you call them “anti-government.” You need to stop embarassing your organization with these oxy-moronic statements.
Finally, SPLC invariably insists that Oath Keepers is “paranoid” and “conspriacy” oriented. If it were not for the “paranoia” of the anti-federalists, we would not even HAVE a Bill of Rights. Did they insist on having the Bill of Rights added to the Constitution before ratifying the Constitution because they thought George Washington was going to come grab their guns? NO. Did they insist on the 3rd Amendment because they thought Washington was going to house troops in their homes? NO.
But what was one of the first things John Adams – a HERO among the “patriot” groups you continually villify – what was one of the first things he did when he became president? HE TRIED TO SILENCE DISSENTERS IN THE PRESS.
Gee… Good thing those founders were so “paranoid” as to insist that these things be made abundantly clear, regardless of whether or not they saw any IMMEDIATE threat of their rights being violated.
on June 7th, 2012 at 2:40 pm
Scott, as has been said before, where were you guys during the years 2001-2009? Conspicuously absent, that’s for sure.
on June 7th, 2012 at 2:53 pm
How is splc able to continue to demean Oath Keepers without ever trying to interview Mr. Rhodes or any other member who would be able to clearly explain to the many mindless masses that Oath Keepers are about holding all who has once taken the Oath to OUR US Constitution to hold true to it….as in any other organization and as massive as Oath Keepers has become, the organization cannot be responsible for every member…wonder how many splc members has been found guilty of various crimes or the many other anti-government groups that are out there…why has splc become an arm to Homeland Security…how interesting and how easy it is to continue the slanderous and negative writings about Oath Keepers when you have almost an endless supply of money and media….since splc has become part of Homeland Security they have made it a point to target any group that they feel will be a hindrance towards their true object, that of destroying OUR Country’s Constitution…and anyone who thinks splc is for them, well I am sorry to tell you you will be part of their attack when it comes time…Oath Keepers has grown exponentially because it holds fast to the core Principles of OUR Constitution and splc is afraid of them…gosh tell me what other group in American history has grown so rapidly in three years…please, before you all make a judgement on Oath Keepers, do some true research for yourself….and if you still believe that Oath Keepers is a hate group or whatever other category you wish to put them in I hope you the best…..For OUR Republic
on June 7th, 2012 at 3:24 pm
Aron, The Oath Keepers was founded in April of 2009. The Oath Keepers mission is to reach, teach, and inspire current, retired, and veteran military, police, firefighters, first res-ponders (EMT), etc. to honor the oath they took to defend the constitution against enemies both foreign and domestic and are reminded not to follow illegal orders like some have done in the past such as Nazi participants or even the US military participants of the My Lei Massacre in N. Viet Nam or such atrocities as the internment of Japanese U.S citizens back in the 40′s.
Below, I listed the ten (10) orders our oath takers with the guns should refuse to comply. Notice that number three (3) has become law via the NDAA 2012 with sections 1021 and 1022 and could be implemented at any time. Thank goodness that Federal Judge out of NY (Obama appointed, I must add) just deemed section 1021 unconstitutional and therefore put a temporary injunction on it. VA, AZ, WY, and other states and counties have passed nullification resolutions to this as well. All you have to do is read and understand Article 3 section 2 & section 3 (treason clause U.S. Constitution) to understand why the NDAA of 2012 was deemed unconstitutional and all congressmen who voted yes for such should retract or be held accountable.
1. We will NOT obey orders to disarm the American people.
2. We will NOT obey orders to conduct warrantless searches of the American people
3. We will NOT obey orders to detain American citizens as “unlawful enemy combatants” or to subject them to military tribunal.
4. We will NOT obey orders to impose martial law or a “state of emergency” on a state.
5. We will NOT obey orders to invade and subjugate any state that asserts its sovereignty.
6. We will NOT obey any order to blockade American cities, thus turning them into giant concentration camps.
7. We will NOT obey any order to force American citizens into any form of detention camps under any pretext.
8. We will NOT obey orders to assist or support the use of any foreign troops on U.S. soil against the American people to “keep the peace” or to “maintain control.”
9. We will NOT obey any orders to confiscate the property of the American people, including food and other essential supplies.
10.We will NOT obey any orders which infringe on the right of the people to free speech, to peaceably assemble, and to petition their government for a redress of grievances.
The above mission sounds like a real hate group, doesn’t it? “roll eyes”
on June 7th, 2012 at 3:50 pm
Well, as Aron said, and as Ruslan said, and as quite a few said before, Harvieux: where the fox were you guys during the Bush administration? It’s okay if a white Republican does it, isn’t it?
on June 7th, 2012 at 3:51 pm
Aron,
The beginning discussions that led to the formation of Oath Keepers happened in 2007. Before that, Stewart Rhodes was studying law at Yale where he won a prestigious award for his SCATHING critique of the Bush Administration’s trampling of the Bill of Rights in 2004 entitled “Solving the Puzzle of Enemy Combatant Status.”
on June 7th, 2012 at 3:57 pm
“As a 33+ year retired Major Crimes Detective I can tell you that you could fill the internet with cases charging liberal left wingers with all manner of crimes including these sexually perverse types. Billy Aryers, Angila Davis, Ron Karanga, ..and so on. But the American Media ignores these.”
First off, I don’t know anything about these people being involved in sex crimes. Second, the media couldn’t shut up about Bill Ayers during the 2008 campaign. Third, if you are talking about “leftists”(anyone you call left), and the media allegedly covering it up, then I have to ask if you remember the media mentioning something about Bill Clinton and infidelity from 1994-2001.
As for the other guy- I have to ask, WHY oh WHY were the Oath Keepers formed in 2009? Seems to me that the Patriot Act should have prompted this kind of response from the get-go.
on June 7th, 2012 at 4:06 pm
Oath Keepers is all about the U.S. Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and the oath that is taken by public officials, military, police, etc. We encourge everyone to learn about and understand all of this.
We also encourage everyone who has taken that oath to actually follow it. If someone takes an Oath (ending in “So help me God”,) how is it radical or objectionable to ask that they follow through on that oath?
“I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic…”
If any of you have a problem with our U.S. Constitution, the Bill of Rights, or the oath of office…maybe you should take a good look in the mirror and think about what, if anything, you actually believe in..
on June 7th, 2012 at 4:21 pm
You’re absolutely right, Ruslan. Why didn’t you start something back then?
Oh wait… You prefer criticizing people who DO act for being too late, even when you are DOING NOTHING.
Mr. Pot, meet Mr. Kettle
on June 7th, 2012 at 5:02 pm
No Larry, we’re criticizing your timing because it’s just SLIGHTLY suspicious that your group came into being four months after the swearing in of a black, Democrat, president.
And if Stewy Rhodes did in fact wrote this ‘scathing report,’ perhaps you can produce it? (And if you were there, do you HONESTLY believe that you would have prevented the atrocity at My Lai? Because I know that I would very likely have participated. Not because of any in-bred hatred, but because the man next to me, and the man next to him had opened fire. It’s called groupthink.)
And I still feel there is a very strong anti-government (read anti-LEFTWING-government) element to Rhodes’ Whackos.
on June 7th, 2012 at 5:03 pm
Also, I find it fascinating that the comment count jumped from a steady three, to a climbing nineteen in only a few hours.
That’s some powerful butthurt, people.
on June 7th, 2012 at 5:07 pm
Almost all Oath Keepers are Govenment workers you stupid azzes.
Soo, he was a former member from back in the day and now we have to own it? morons..
SPLC should be shut down.
on June 7th, 2012 at 5:28 pm
Nanci, GIGO. Before you take such an oath, you had better understand what the Constitution is. Don’t get your information off cereal boxes.
on June 7th, 2012 at 5:34 pm
Harvieux, what your points sound like is…well, you have some genuine items in there, some that would apply under certain circumstances, and some that are pure LSD, but since you’ve thrown the casserole at the fan, it’s kind of hard to sort out the ingredients now, isn’t it?
on June 7th, 2012 at 6:00 pm
Reynardine, As some have already specified and which you seem to dwell on the left/right paradigm BS by making fact less assertions that the Oath Keepers are politically driven and maybe even on the anti Obama admin. bandwagon. IIRC, Stewart Rhodes based his idea of starting the Oath Keepers mainly due to his learning’s of the enemy combatant status which he absolutely visioned such as eventually happening here at home as opposed to only the battlefields of a legal war and which happened to have been initiated by the Bush admin. Looks like his vision is nearly a reality with the likes of the NDAA 2012 section 1021, now isn’t it? I also think the totally unconscionable actions brought on during hurricane Katrina (Bush admin.) due to the local government’s order to confiscate all firearms from the citizens of New Orleans, the packing of people into the Super Dome and not allowing anyone to leave, the blockade of all travel routes in and out of the city virtually creating a city wide internment camp, and also the totally uncalled for actions of FEMA which are too numerous to list as the possible cattle prod reasons to form and initiate the Oath Keepers organization into action. Yes, Obama has continued and expanded on these very same unconstitutional acts and it is our solemn duty to remind our men and women who carry the guns to simply follow their oath and the constitution and refuse to follow those illegal orders, period! Any questions?
on June 7th, 2012 at 10:20 pm
Gee Larry, where did you get the idea that I was doing “nothing” back in 2001-2008? Oh right, you just pulled it out of your ass. Now please explain exactly what the Oath Keepers are actually doing.
on June 8th, 2012 at 2:30 am
@Kate De Braose, you might be thinking of Promise Keepers and I think you have been misinformed about them, but that is a topic for another discussion.
The Oath Keepers, as has been mentioned multiple times in this discussion, are NOT anti-govt. as the article states. Far from it. Oath Keepers is absolutely pro-Constitution. Now just how do you arrive at the conclusion that we are anti-govt from that?
Is it anti-govt to expect those who swore an oath to support and defend our Constitution to actually stand up and follow the highest Law of the Land? Is it anti-govt to refuse to obey unlawful orders that violate every citizen’s Constitutional rights?
Oath Keeps does not advocate, promote or condone any illegal activities and we certainly do not advocate the over throw of any government. Our mission is to Reach, Teach and Inspire all those who swore an Oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America to Keep their Oath.
Oath Keepers is neither “Left” nor “Right”. Oath Keepers is strictly non-partisan and merely supports and votes for whomever supports our US Constitution.
So please people, lets work together to pull America back from the brink and get back to the Constitution that protects all Americans from abuses of power.
And finally, I agree also that if the FORMER Oath Keeper, Dyer, is guilty of this horrendous crime then let him rot under the jail. If he’s innocent then let him be free, but lets let the court decided that.
on June 8th, 2012 at 7:45 am
SPLC is here because of people like the Oath Keepers and Three Percenter’s.
You can scream about us all you want but when the government decides they no longer like people like you our groups will be right here ready to defend you.
I forgive you for your ignorance and bias.
Robert Lazo
Wisconsin
STANDING IN THE OPEN FOR ANY DHS,ATF,FBI,CIA, AND NSA TROLLS.
on June 8th, 2012 at 8:05 am
You have to remember that to right wingers, having sex with kids is not immoral.
But when two consenting homosexual adults want to have sex, then the phony right wing outrage surfaces.
Idiots.
on June 8th, 2012 at 8:35 am
First of all Oath Keepers began at Lexington Green Ma. on April 19, 2009. Why was in formulated? It was formed because a President by the name of George W Bush was usurping the laws of the Constitution of the United States. He was giving egregious power to his own administration so a young attorney started taking an idea that he had, to start an organization that reaches across political lines to stand up for The United States Constitution, to believe in the Oath of office that is administered to name a few, The Military, Law Enforcement, Fire Fighters, Congressional Members, The President. along with many local elected individuals. What a concept, stand up for the belief of the Oath that you take to uphold the standards that you are elected to or volunteered to protect. Hence the Oath Keepers were born. But, as in all things someone looks at the organization, doesn’t understand the meaning of it and spins and conducts all means to find something wrong and at fault with the organization.
The Oath Keepers believe in the Government of this Nation, it is an organization that does not want individuals in charge that do not adhere to what the constitution stands for. Political sides do not matter and in a fox hole no one turns to the other and says are you a republican or democrat, another thing that doesn’t matter is the color of the skin, their religious affiliation or their sexual preference. none of that matters, what matters is survival. So where was Oath Keepers from 2001 to 2009? Being born in the mind of an individual who was trying to figure out the best way to combat the growing level of stupidity coming out of Washington DC.
on June 8th, 2012 at 10:33 am
Aron, I’ve got a feeling that we could tell you the sky is blue and people with your ideology would ask for the evidence of such.
Here you go and I hope you don’t choke on those crow feathers. “roll eyes”
http://ivyleaguelegalbriefs.com/
on June 8th, 2012 at 11:17 am
Aron, Let me make this even easier by providing a PDF link to the award winning paper by: Elmer Stewat Rhodes
http://www.scribd.com/doc/4176.....%9D-STATUS
Now, you had better read every single word of this paper because I will be quizzing you in short order. As a matter of fact, Mark Potek should read this as well however, I promise not to hold by breath.
on June 8th, 2012 at 1:06 pm
Hey geniuses, I LIVE in Lexington, MA. I was there on Patriots Day in 2009. All I saw were a bunch of teapartyist goons waving Gadsen flags. And GB was not the president at the time, contrary to what Steve claims.
Also Harvieux, a couple things. You might want to remove any connections between your comments and Wild Rose Motors. Employers don’t look kindly upon people insulting others using their name.
In addition, you mock me because I asked for evidence to back up your claims? Rhodes may have gone to Yale Law, but based on your ridicule, you sure didn’t.
on June 8th, 2012 at 1:22 pm
Harvieux, I see you were so inspired by the terrible events of Katrina in 2005 that you organized in 2009. Your response time reassures us all.
on June 8th, 2012 at 1:50 pm
Ruslan,
What is Oath Keepers doing?
Visit our website and read our mission statement. We are reaching out to military, police, and first responders, encouraging them to study the Constitution and Bill of Rights, so they can actually keep the Oath that they swore.
We are also encouraging the Oath-sworn to think deeply and critically about the atrocities and mistakes of the past, and make up their minds NOW – before the pressure of the moment is upon them – to NOT OBEY orders that violate human rights. To encourage them, if or when faced with immoral and illegal orders, to STAND DOWN. To exercise civil disobedience.
The “10 Orders We Will NOT Obey” is just an example of possible orders that we believe should be disobeyed. Each of them also has a historical precedent in US History – so the accusation of “paranoia” is nonsense.
I would really like critics of Oath Keepers to explain which of the “10 Orders” they think our military SHOULD obey, and give a Constitutional explanation of WHY they should.
Seriously. I will be waiting.
on June 8th, 2012 at 2:44 pm
Harvieux:
#1: who do you deem to be “The American People” and what do you classify as “disarming”?
#4: Not under any crcumstances? Somebody nukes Omaha, say, the normal law enforcement structure breaks down, there are riots and looting and people wandering in and out of radoactive zones and just being glowing generally and lynch mobs form…
#5. Appomattox, q.v.
#6. An ebola epidemic breaks out in Chicago. People, some of whom are already incubating the disease, try to flee for other parts of the country.
#9. A speculator has sequestered most of the food, water, and medical supplies and will not release them to the populace except at exorbitant prices. The people will soon perish without them.
Just curious how you’d deal with each of these.
on June 8th, 2012 at 2:51 pm
Reynardine:
And YOU have done WHAT, exactly to ensure that the human rights violations committed during Katrina never happen again?
So sorry that Stewart didn’t think of the idea until sometime in 2007, and didn’t actually launch for over a year.
While you are criticizing Oath Keepers for not being quick enough for you, please share YOUR list of human rights accomplishments during the same time period.
*crickets*
on June 8th, 2012 at 3:00 pm
I would add, in response to your #8, that the Mexican Navy, Army, Air Force, and Red Cross all entered U.S. territory, with the permission of the federal government, to the relief of New Orleans and the assistance of the refugee centers in Houston, during the Katrina crisis period. They sent food, water, medical equipment and supplies, as well as expertise and personnel, to both areas, and amphibious craft and hospital ships were able to gain access to the disaster area from the seaward side that had been blocked from land. I know of no incidents where U.S. citizens opposed them by force, but suppose they had…whose side would you have been on?
on June 8th, 2012 at 3:02 pm
Oh yeah… The other thing Stewart was doing during those years was practicing law to pay his bills and feed his six children. But hey! Since founding and launching a non-profit organization is SO easy to do in one’s spare time, perhaps Reynardine and Russlan can tell us how long it took them to start theirs?
*crickets*
on June 8th, 2012 at 3:31 pm
#1: who do you deem to be “The American People” and what do you classify as “disarming”?
“The American People” = people who live in America. (Is this a serious question???) Disarming = taking away firearms. This was done to law-abiding citizens during Katrina, leaving them defenseless against looters and other predators.
#4: Not under any crcumstances? Somebody nukes Omaha, say, the normal law enforcement structure breaks down, there are riots and looting and people wandering in and out of radoactive zones and just being glowing generally and lynch mobs form…
WOW!!! And Markie Potok says WE are paranoid???
The REST of the statement, if you click through from the short version on the main page, is this “without the express consent and invitation of that state’s legislature and governor.”
#5. Appomattox, q.v.
Yes, you read correctly. Oath Keepers will NOT fight another Civil War if one or more states seceeds. I don’t know about you, but most folks realize that the Civil War was BAD, mmkay?
#6. An ebola epidemic breaks out in Chicago. People, some of whom are already incubating the disease, try to flee for other parts of the country.
Again with the Sci-Fi movies??? YES, we would let Will Smith escape the zombie dogs if “I Am Legend” actually happens.
#9. A speculator has sequestered most of the food, water, and medical supplies and will not release them to the populace except at exorbitant prices. The people will soon perish without them.
Oh, you mean the current pharmaceutical industry? No… You mean more Sci-Fi stuff that will never happen. But IF someone magically DID manage to horde SO much food and water than entire communities were going to starve, there is a constitutional answer: Eminent Domain. The 5th Amendment clearly states that he should be allowed due process of law and then COMPENSATED for the stuff.
on June 8th, 2012 at 3:42 pm
Aron, I am Wild Rose Motors, Ltd. and have founded and owned it for over 14 years. http://www.vwtdionly.com Like I said, don’t choke on those fricken crow feathers, eh?
on June 8th, 2012 at 3:43 pm
Larry, baby, we have crickets year round here.
A year before Katrina, shortly after the near-miss by Ivan, I sent a letter to the Times-Picayune, stating exactly what I thought would happen if one that size hit New Orleans and neither the state nor the feds did better than that. At that moment, we ourselves were festering in the wreckage of three hurricanes and I don’t know if that letter was published or not. I do know that what I predicted was exactly what happened the next year.
I was, at that age, no longer in a position to render legal assistance. I gave what other aid I could. Nonetheless, some fifteen years before that, when I had eleven dollars to my name, I, acting pro bono, sued the Attorney General of the United States on behalf of three indigent, non-criminal clients whose lives were at risk, and dammit, I waded into the Everglades at three A.M. to serve the TRO’s. In this, I was not exceptional. And now, what the Hell have YOU done for anyone lately?
on June 8th, 2012 at 3:51 pm
I’m an Oath Keeper and very proud of my military service… I have to say I VOTED FOR OBAMA. Bacause of his campaign promises the only one he kept was Obama Care which I thought was a good thing especially for the poor in America. Since in Office he has expanded to role of the military at home and abroad. I’m am tried of paying for wars that are driving the US further and further into debt. And now they want to overextend our military to fight in Libya, Syria, and eventually Iran. None of which we can afford. Through the passing of the NDAA 2012 and the NDRP, there are fears of public domain of all natural resourses including family farms and the expansion of the GMOs. I believe in your right to think, say, write what you believe in, no matter what. If Dyer did that to his daughter he should spend the rest of his life in jail so he can be butt raped every fricked day. The difference between me and a liberal is that I don’t try to force my opinions on others
on June 8th, 2012 at 3:59 pm
I could start with 21 years of service for my country. Beyond that, I’m not really interested in bragging. But then, I’m not the one criticizing others for not being speedy enough.
But then, let’s cut to the chase, shall we. You, like others, were actually insinuating that Oath Keepers are racist because the current Liar In Chief and Trampler of the Bill of Rights happens to be a black guy.
Sorry to disappoint you. We’ve presented plenty of evidence that the founding of this organization was NOT motivated by race or political party. (You did read Stewart’s paper, linked above?)
on June 8th, 2012 at 4:01 pm
Harvieux,
If you are in fact WRVW, you’re a damned fool. What kind of moron associates their NON-CONNECTED business with contentious subjects?
And you still haven’t even attempted to disprove what I saw the day of 19 April, 2009.
on June 8th, 2012 at 4:02 pm
Reynardine, So you think the constitution should not be followed during times of chaos? Correct me if I’m wrong but, the chains of the constitution should remain on the government especially in times of chaos and this should answer all your questions pertaining to the orders we will not follow. The only time the constitution should be changed is specified in Article V even though I am not a fan of a Con-Con.
It’s the constitution and nothing but the constitution every time, all the time, no excuses, whatsoever! It truly is that simple, hello!
on June 8th, 2012 at 7:34 pm
The Constitution: Every Issue, Every Time. No Exceptions, No Excuses.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6u6khZo8Ia8
on June 9th, 2012 at 9:35 am
It’s interesting how the Oath Keepers were so upset about the actions of George W. Bush, that they formed a group on 19 April 2009, several months into Obama’s presidency. I’m sure we can trust these people to be on the ball to defend our Constitutional Rights.
Anyway, some people have asked me to explain what’s wrong with their “oaths,” so here we go.
1. We will NOT obey orders to disarm the American people.
Ok, let’s say an insurgent group rises up in America. If soldiers follow the oath then the military cannot be used to defend the US from internal insurrection. You need only look at the history of the US(Whiskey Rebellion, Shays Rebellion, Civil War) to see that the framers never intended the Constitution to legalize military insurrection. Military personnel swear a real oath to defend against enemies foreign AND domestic. If you take this phony oath, then you’re suggesting that the oath of enlistment is null and that the military cannot be used to preserve the US from domestic enemies.
Also, the oath of enlistment states the the oath-taker will obey the orders of those appointed over him/her. Nowhere in the constitution does it say that interpretation of the constitutionality of orders is left up to military personnel, much less lower enlisted. Have you heard of this body known as the Supreme Court?
2. We will NOT obey orders to conduct warrantless searches of the American people
Refusing an order which would not likely be given. That’s brave!
3. We will NOT obey orders to detain American citizens as “unlawful enemy combatants” or to subject them to military tribunal.
Suppose an insurgency breaks out in the US and for whatever reason the government decides to grant them POW status as opposed to labeling them unlawful combatants. Then I guess you’re screwed.
4. We will NOT obey orders to impose martial law or a “state of emergency” on a state.
So let’s say a real serious state of emergency occurs in some state, and only the military can help. I guess those poor people are screwed then. Good thinking.
5. We will NOT obey orders to invade and subjugate any state that asserts its sovereignty.
I think you need to specify whether you mean US state or foreign state, because the US does this to plenty of the latter and I haven’t seen you people doing much about that. Nothing in the US Constitution grants US states the right of secession or sovereignty.
6. We will NOT obey any order to blockade American cities, thus turning them into giant concentration camps.
Again, strange assuming such an order would be given(I think the term you wanted was “ghettos” and not concentration camps). Really you should have pledged to refuse any order to blockade foreign cities since the US military does that far more often.
7. We will NOT obey any order to force American citizens into any form of detention camps under any pretext.
Again, why would this order be given? And again, suppose an insurgency breaks out. Now the US government can’t use its military to defend itself? That’s not constitutional, gentlemen.
8. We will NOT obey orders to assist or support the use of any foreign troops on U.S. soil against the American people to “keep the peace” or to “maintain control.”
Again, where do they get such ideas? Oh right, the John Birch Society. These oaths get so ridiculous you might as well add another one: “WE WILL NOT OBEY ORDERS FROM ANY ALIEN OVERLORDS WHO MAY ATTEMPT TO SUBJUGATE THE UNITED STATES!”
“9. We will NOT obey any orders to confiscate the property of the American people, including food and other essential supplies.”
Look at the history of the last 100 or so years. Notice it hasn’t been Americans who have been suffering this at the hands of the US government.
“10.We will NOT obey any orders which infringe on the right of the people to free speech, to peaceably assemble, and to petition their government for a redress of grievances.”
First Amendment rights are limited within the military, ergo you could not claim to follow this oath and remain in the military.
on June 9th, 2012 at 11:03 am
These Oath Keepers aren’t quite as hilarious as the men’s rights bozos (who no doubt consider it an outrage that this icky perv got 30 years for something they do not consider criminal since to them an unmarried daughter is property of the father) – but methinks they protest too much regarding the fact that the founding of their organization appears to be solely motivated by racism.
At least most of the patriot bozos aren’t willing to defend this icky perv child rapist.
on June 9th, 2012 at 12:07 pm
I note I got taken down for profanity once, and I likely will be again. But, Harvieux, I suspect you reside in the ancient Welsh town of Llakcuf, where you are writing, “How I Served My Country”, and it’s a cookbook.
on June 9th, 2012 at 5:33 pm
Aron, I am a founding member of the Oath Keepers and joined in early April 2010. I am a U.S. Army Viet Nam Era veteran (not to be confused with a combat Viet Nam veteran, i.e. a bit too young). I was not present at the Lexington Green, MA Oath Keeper Inauguration on April 19, 2009. IIRC, a founding member status includes member’s who have joined within the first year of the founding date.
Your Quote: [I LIVE in Lexington, MA. I was there on Patriots Day in 2009. All I saw were a bunch of teapartyist goons waving Gadsen flags. And GB was not the president at the time, contrary to what Steve claims.]
I fail to see the point of your above quote and I also fail to see your point of what my posting here has to do with the business I own. Many of my customer’s praise my stance to defend the constitution. I also receive respect from the many LEO, Firefighters, and military personnel both active and veteran customer’s I have who I inform/remind the Oath Keepers mission to. I exclusively sell (licensed dealer), maintain, and repair VW TDI turbo diesel vehicles and am very well known for such worldwide. i.e. very niche business. Many of the total opposite of my ideological spectrum comes to us for our service or repairs as well so, I don’t get your petty remarks pertaining to such.
May I suggest for you to come up with a more credible line of criticism as opposed to the lame ones you have presented to date? “roll eyes”
on June 10th, 2012 at 8:55 pm
There you got it, folks. H. is a blowhard.
on June 10th, 2012 at 10:01 pm
Harvieux,
It wasn’t petty. The Tea Party is radically conservative. Hence the reason why Rhodes waited until there was an (apparently, at least at first) left-leaning Democrat in the White House.
And get your facts straight. There’s no such place as ‘Lexington Green, MA’ The Green is a big open field in Lexington center. If you’re going to call my recitation of facts petty, at least get the facts I’ve presented correct.
And you’re right. I was wrong to conflate your disagreeable politics with your business. One of my favorite dive shops is run by a hardcore JBSer. While I despise that aspect of him, not to mention all of the propaganda in his shop, he is incredibly knowledgeable regarding cave diving, and a legend in the community. As such, I must overlook his looniness.
on June 11th, 2012 at 12:23 am
How about some new Oaths for our Oath Keepers to take. These are TOTALLY realistic.
1. We will REFUSE any order to help aliens from other planets/dimensions disarm and enslave the American people. Only the American people, you know they’ve been pretty oppressed by the American military for so long.
2. We will REFUSE to follow the orders of any undead being which has risen from the grave.
3. We will REFUSE to work with Nazis descended from the moon, should they exist, and should they attempt to get revenge on the free world.
I’m also still laughing at the claim that the Oath Keepers were so upset about what Bush did in 2001 that they formed a group only after he was out of office in 2009. You guys really are on the ball.
on June 11th, 2012 at 11:05 am
Hello all. I am an Oath Keeper, however, I was hesitant in joining due to the “racist” aspect of the radical right. While my fiscal views may be conservative, my social views are not, with the exception of a few.
I guess you would call me a moderate. I am pro gay marriage, but I am against abortion, so there you go.
I took an oath when I joined the Navy, you all know the oath, no reason to repeat it.
And I would like to say, that as a military justice specialist and legal administrator, I think that military law should dictate the fate of child molestors and rapists as a whole, in that, the death penalty should be an option. Especially for child molestors. But I guess that’s too mean huh? I mean, all he did was take innocence away from his daughter and provide her with a life of nightmares and depression. I believe in evil, and this man is that.
You all have the right to your opinions. There will always be a “bad man or woman” that infiltrates any group, or any political party. I’m a Catholic democrat, I voted for our sitting President. I am multi-racial, that includes BLACK.
And although our constitution has more of a reputation for going against black people, and minorities, I will still defend it’s principals because without them you would not have successful black people, or other successful minorities. Without the principals of the constitution, you would not have President Obama, he is a hero to my son and lets us know that my son could be president, and even my daughter could be the first black female president.
I have to say, white people, Oath Keepers or not, will never know what that means. You can sympathize all you like, you can have as many “black friends” as you want, you can marry as many black people as you want, join the SPLC and NAACP, but until you have to show your son a picture, of 100 white men, standing around one dead black man, smiling, with their kids, you do not know what we feel.
But does that mean the constitution is bad? Does that mean it can be trampled on? You know, I get it. I know what liberals believe, there is no monster under the bed. The Devil is not in the details. What you see is what you get. I get it. I’m not preparing for the fallout of Jericho.
But I was trained in military operations and tactics and it alarms me when the DHS places an order for 450 million .40 caliber hollow point rounds. Do you guys know what hollow points are for? They’re not for keeping the peace.
It alarms me when TSA is placed on our buses to “police” possible terrorists – why then did they search the backpacks and bodies of middle school children in Houston?
It alarms me when you guys are turning your heads on questionable legislation that allows us to be detained without trial, and without conviction.
You think it’s a joke? It’s been happening to the black community for YEARS. You remember the civil rights movement. Men and women getting hosed down, dogs being sicked on them, beaten and dragged through the streets. Black women being raped over and over again is the reason I look almost white. And you think that monster went into hiding because the color has changed and the President is black?
It’s already happened. It just didn’t happen to you.
You want to ask the elders in my family if the government is capable of putting the constition in a drawer while they “calm the masses”. I think, they would beg to differ, especially the ones who remember walking on the other side of the road.
That is why, I joined. Because it will not happen again.
And incidentally, where were the oath keepers from 2001 – 2009? They were in Iraq and Afghanistan fighting for your right to call us nazis. Where were you?
on June 11th, 2012 at 11:08 am
Basically the Oath Keepers’ oath can be summed up like this:
“We refuse to follow the orders of our leaders if they carry out a scenario which happens to conform to far-right wing, John Birch Society conspiracy theories which have been predicted for nearly 40 years now.”
That’s why I suggested you could add oaths refusing to obey orders of aliens or 10,000-year-old demons awakened from their sleep by the opening of some ancient lost tomb.
on June 11th, 2012 at 11:19 am
It’s forty-eight years, Ruslan, and although any old tomb will do in a pench, Mr. Lovecraft specially recommended the Gate of Ganzir (actually, that sounds like a good name for a vintner. “Open yourself a Gate of Ganzir and release some mighty fine demons…”)
on June 11th, 2012 at 12:14 pm
“And incidentally, where were the oath keepers from 2001 – 2009? They were in Iraq and Afghanistan fighting for your right to call us nazis. Where were you?”
Please explain how the Iraqis and Taliban were going to take away our first amendment rights. I’d really like to hear someone explain that. I’ve heard this crap a million times: “I FOUGHT FOR YOUR RIGHT TO SAY THAT IN AFGHANISTAN/IRAQ/VIETNAM/GRENADA/HAITI/SOMALIA..SO DON’T USE YOUR RIGHT TO SAY THAT!”
It’s not going to work here pal. The question is still entirely legitimate. If these people were so concerned about the loss of civil rights, WHY oh WHY did they do something about it in 2009? Obviously these people weren’t continuously in combat from 2001-2009. Nothing stopped them from creating a website when they were states-side. I even ran a website while I was in the military. I could understand if they didn’t create the organization a year, maybe even two or three years after the PATRIOT act was signed. But 2009, a different administration, that’s just a little too coincidental.
on June 11th, 2012 at 1:06 pm
Joseph, if you really were the Constitutional and military law expert that you claim to be you might realize that imposing military law on civilians is specifically prohibited by the Constitution.
Also playing with G.I. Joe dolls doesn’t qualify one for a claim to be in the military. Now run on back to your dolls, sweetie, and leave the conversation to adults.
on June 11th, 2012 at 1:07 pm
Pinch.
on June 11th, 2012 at 1:21 pm
Joseph,
Why is it I only see reference to the ’450 million hollow-point .40 caliber rounds’ on hardcore right-wing websites?
I’m calling shenanigans on your claims.
on June 11th, 2012 at 2:29 pm
Fair enough. I won’t say it again. I never fought for your rights, and when you were in the military you never fought for mine. But I wonder, what would happen, to our rights, if we never fought anywhere…at all.
If we did not fight, whatsoever, I wonder what CRAP would you hear then.
I dont’ know, but whatever CRAP you hear might be in German, if we didn’t fight at all. I don’t think Hitler was going to stop just because of some water.
Yeah you’re right, we didn’t need to go to Vietnam and fight “that white man’s war”. Who got paid from that anyway? The CIA? Frank Lucas? I don’t know, let the communist’s win right. Yeah Socialism. :)
I agree. We should have stayed out of Grenada, some people may disagree with you, but why send in the Marines for that right?
Why did we go to Somalia? Oh because people were starving, people were getting raped, murdered, children were dying, UN had a mission. But we got a bad rap for trying to pull out the leadership and Clinton bailed. I get it.
It’s not our business to tell someone they can’t kill millions of people. It’s not out business to tell the people of one religion, it’s wrong to murder the people of another religion.
It’s not our business. You’re right. I’m wrong. Its’ cool for people to bash it the heads of little babies because it doesn’t happen in America. Matter of fact. It’s better to educate their children, and them send them back so they can kill some more of their own people, yeah, we got a good think going here.
Oh but wait I forgot. We did trample american babies under boothills to same money on ammunition. I think Teddy Roosevelt called it civilizing the savages. I remember reading about how American Soldiers used the skin of american indian women to line their hats. It was the new “Leather”.
Let’s not forget the camps that Japanese Americans were hearded into during WWII. But that didn’t happen to you so you don’t care.
Lets not forget the Patriot Act for that matter.
No, our government would never trample on our constitutional rights, what do the oath keepers know about it.
You’re right. I’m wrong. I’ll never say that CRAP again.
Incidentally, thank you for your service.
on June 11th, 2012 at 2:33 pm
Aron:
I don’t think this is a right wing website, and I am not a right winger. Instead of hitting “search” click “news”. This is actually more of a financial report about it.
The Department Of Homeland Security Is Buying 450 Million New Bullets
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com.....z1xVzFpc7W
http://www.businessinsider.com.....mmo-2012-3
on June 11th, 2012 at 2:45 pm
I am really enjoying this conversation. GI Joe’s do not qualify me, no, you are correct. I can’t however run back to my dolls, I’m 80% disabled, which is why I can’t serve anymore. I have PTSD and bad knees among other things the Navy sent me back home with. So the running thing, not so much.
Why is it you are all resorting to insults? I don’t get that. Pinches don’t hurt so much as the bullets that hit me. So you’re going to have to come at bit harder than that.
Who’s next?
on June 11th, 2012 at 2:50 pm
Aron:
Uno mas sir:
I don’t think this one is right wing either.
http://www.marketwatch.com/sto.....2012-03-12
on June 11th, 2012 at 3:29 pm
Joseph, sweetie, you know what happens to little boys who tell lies.
on June 11th, 2012 at 4:42 pm
For the record I have no reason to doubt that Joseph served in the armed forces. And when it comes to fighting for freedom I also acknowledge the struggle in WWII, probably the last just war the US was involved in. Although it is worth noting the far greater sacrifice that was made by the USSR and many Communist partisans throughout Europe to the defeat of Hitler.
But as for the hollow-point thing, I don’t see it as a big deal. DHS is supposed to be a LEO, is it not? They must have some armed personnel and since cops are allowed to use hollow-points I don’t see why they shouldn’t be able to. We expect our police to have quality firearms with ammunition that has a lot of stopping power. Besides having this, hollow-point rounds often don’t over-penetrate as much as FMJ bullets, so it makes sense for domestic LE personnel to use them.
Might be better to ask why we need DHS in the first place.
on June 11th, 2012 at 4:50 pm
“Pinch” was a spelling correction, Joseph, not a petty injury aimed at you. We don’t have edit buttons, we can’t append to a specific comment, and these things seldom post in cogent order, because the mods are in only sporadically on loonwatch. Sorry about your PTSD and bashed up knees. I’ve got ‘em both, and I don’t behave like you. You can therefore quit playing Wooden Leg,because if that were allowed here, this place would sound like the Thousand-Legged Worm of camp song fame.
on June 11th, 2012 at 4:52 pm
I meant on Hatewatch. They’re in 24/7 at Loonwatch, of which I was thinking with longing.
on June 11th, 2012 at 5:05 pm
Yeah, they’re noses grow if they’re real boys.
Erika, are you serious? I served, sweetie, and I gave, honey, I gave more than I would have otherwise wanted to. I gave more than an “admin specialist” should have, my fault for volunteering for everything… I joined the Navy to be a legal assistant, at least I got my wish.
But I don’t have to explain that to you. You’re going to want to believe what you wish, and I do wish you the very best life has to offer you – dearheart. I think the problem is there must be a reason you think I am lying. And for that, I do apologize. Some things people should not lie about, and it will catch up to them one day.
No ma’am, I am an honorably discharged Yeoman Second Class (job) of the world’s greatest Navy, Enlisted Aviation Warfare Specialist (warfare qualification). I even got in trouble with my government travel card . I was a crazy kid… And yes, I did play with GI Joes. Love the series, it’s on Netflix. :)
Ruslan, thank you sir. You make two very good points that I do not have an argument for, local LEO is allowed the use of hollow points, so why should not DHS?
I think the amount is what is at question. They do not penetrate like FMJ, less collateral damage, better stopping power, but why 450 million of them (granted over five years) but they’re definitely not for target practice – you know that.
I think we used an average of 50 million rounds per year (sic) in Iraq and Afghanistan (correct me if I am wrong). That would dictate, to the enquiring mind, that they are preparing for a (handgun) war???
You know, I don’t want to defend anything. I want my son and my daughter to go to school, and be happy, and bring home good grades, and I want to grow old and live comfortably, with them.
I don’t “hope” anything happens. But if the past serves as a test for a good memory, it can happen. But hey, so can an alien invasion right?
Have a good evening everyone.
on June 11th, 2012 at 6:21 pm
Joseph,
You’re right. Not all of them were far-right. But when the majority of the hits came up for InfoWars and the C of CC, that’s pretty telling.
And as I was driving home from work today, I had the same realization as Ruslan. The DHS has several LEO groups under their roof. LEOs tend to use expanding point ammunition for the reasons that Ruslan mentioned, namely increased lethality and lack of overpenetration.
And everyone knows that prices are much lower when purchased in bulk. Plus, if the ammunition isn’t using corrosive primers, they should last a long time.
I think there’s nothing out of the ordinary here.
Also, if you’re equating the peacekeeping missions in Somalia and the Balkans with the war in Viet Nam, I suggest you consult an military historian (like me) in future. There are some pretty keen differences between those two types of conflict. (Let me just say ‘Linebacker II.’)
on June 11th, 2012 at 10:11 pm
Aron:
Thank you for looking. I appreciate it. Ladies and gentlemen, I don’t blog. I just wanted to let you know that I firmly believe in the mission of oath keepers. Does it lean right? Yes. Do we all lean right individually? No. I do think a government, when left unchecked will become a problem. I don’t think that Washington has the people’s true interests at heart. I wish guns didn’t exist but I would rather be caught with one than without one.
I do know that Vietnam and the Balkans are not the same thing, but I don’t speak from the books, or history, I speak from the experience of being 4th generation military. My grandfather joined the Army and earned his citizenship fighting in WWII, on my mother’s side, he actuall swam across the Rio Grande. My father’s family fought in Korea, Vietnam and served during Grenada and the Beirut bombing. I am a Gulf War Era and War on Terror Era Veteran with two National Defense Service Medals. So I speak from the “soldier’s and sailor’s” perspective.
I wish each one of you the best, I’ve enjoyed the educational aspect of our conversation. For others, please feel free to have fun at my expense, I’m sure some of you will.
Thank God for the veterans, the military historians, attorneys and keepers of the oath. Thank god for the checks and balances that you all provide. Thank you and good night.
on June 13th, 2012 at 7:45 am
“God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty…. And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants”
Thomas Jefferson
Robert Lazo
Milwaukee, WI.
Standing in the open for all DHS, FBI,ATF,CIA, and other trolls.
on June 13th, 2012 at 8:59 am
Lazo, why don’t you try that revolution you’re striving for. Just try not to think about the fact that the government’s guns will always be bigger and better than yours.
Idiot.
on June 13th, 2012 at 9:20 am
We need only to look at the early US government’s response to several armed insurgencies to see what they felt about that quote.
on June 13th, 2012 at 2:18 pm
Oh, hell, let them try. But if the Republicans sweep, you can bet they’ll be on the side of the big guns.
on June 13th, 2012 at 2:42 pm
Everyone who is talking about armed insurrection has completely missed the point about Oath Keepers.
Oath Keepers exists to PREVENT armed conflict between our citizens and our military. The entire point is that if our military is ever ordered to violate the rights of the citizenry, that they will
STAND DOWN.
DO NOTHING.
CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE.
You can’t have an armed conflict if no one shoots. THAT is Oath Keeper’s mission.
on June 13th, 2012 at 3:11 pm
Lord (for those of you who believe in him) I am tired of the insults. “Idiot” – really? You kiss your mom with that mouth?
Actually, the government has a bad habit of buying their “bigger” guns in bulk, of course, this makes sense because it saves money, but makes for more maintenance. Hence the issues in Vietnam, with the M-16 vs. SKS. But the military historian should know that right? Personally, I’ll put my SIG 556 against the Colt M4. And I really will put it aginst the Bushmaster.
As far as the early US government’s response to several armed insurgencies goes…you’re really making my case for me.
And if the repubicans, and I did mean repubicans, sweep…hell, Bush was a republican. ‘Nuff said. Just maybe we’ll get one that can complete a full sentence.
I really don’t think that quote really needed those responses. And again, what’s with the insults. For educated, historians and attorneys, I’m seeing a lot of “I got bullied in high school so I’m going to be an internet tuff guy or gal” here.
That’s not very nice.
on June 13th, 2012 at 3:31 pm
“Oath Keepers exists to PREVENT armed conflict between our citizens and our military. The entire point is that if our military is ever ordered to violate the rights of the citizenry, that they will”
So suppose that an armed insurgency breaks out in the US. The Oath Keepers would hamstring the military from defending its own soil. Not too smart. Also, these oaths were clearly based on the fears of John Birch Society types, for something that is unlikely to happen. It is more rational to suggest that if there ever were a situation where US military forces were called upon to fight on US soil, there would have been so much rhetoric and propaganda that even the Oath Keepers would be convinced that they were doing the right thing by obeying orders.
In other words, you’re not going to see the government just up and say: “Well we’ve decided to disarm Americans, blockade major cities, and bring in some foreign peacekeepers to mitigate a civil war that doesn’t currently exist.”
on June 13th, 2012 at 4:13 pm
I agree about the foreign peacekeeper thing, I don’t think that would happen.
But disarming Americans and blocading American cities.
Please tell me (of course you don’t have to) you have an explanation for New Orleans / Katrina. Other than the bad weather of course. They did declare martial law – which incidentally someone mentioned up top – was unconstitutional.
on June 13th, 2012 at 4:14 pm
My bad, and they did disarm Americans.
on June 13th, 2012 at 4:21 pm
CORRECTION: Martial law was not “officially” declared, because the Louisiana Attorney General’s office clarified that as that term does not exist in Louisiana Law.
However, from the guys/gals on the ground, although the “term” may not have been legally used, it was most definitely “unofficially” used by the commissioned officers giving the orders.
But since it was not legally used, then it should be struck from this argument.
on June 13th, 2012 at 4:38 pm
Reynardine,
I just saw your posts regarding the “pinch”.
I don’t know what “wooden leg” is, but I do know I am not going to argue with a women who waded waste high through a swamp to serve TROs. Do you know how much my attorney’s would have to pay me to do that?
And as far as I am acting. I go to work, go pick up my son, go to the gym, then go home, take my daughter from my wife (so she can have a break).
Not implying that she is a housewife, but a teacher who is off during the summer.
Then, I go to bed watching a movie or “The King of Queens” with said son. So you tell me ma’am, how do I act?
on June 13th, 2012 at 4:44 pm
I did not hear that they declared martial law. The National Guard typically helps out during a state of emergency. I don’t think the worst thing people faced during Katrina was military personnel, but rather the flood.
What I am saying is that by the time anyone in the US government would even consider declaring martial law or using the US military in a domestic role, there would already have to be a serious conflict beyond that which local/federal police forces could handle. In such a situation, it would be ludicrous to expect the US military to sit on its hands and let the country fall apart.
on June 13th, 2012 at 5:05 pm
“Oath Keepers exists to PREVENT armed conflict between our citizens and our military. The entire point is that if our military is ever ordered to violate the rights of the citizenry, that they will”
So suppose that an armed insurgency breaks out in the US.
I said, “ordered to violate the rights of the citizenry.” Is there a “right” to “an armed insurgency” in the Constitution or Bill of Rights that I don’t know about? Please enlighten me.
Article 1, Section 8 clearly states that Congress has the power “To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;”
You know very well that the Oath Keeper’s promise not to disarm the American people is NOT talking about criminals running around SHOOTING their guns. You aren’t that stupid, and neither are we.
on June 13th, 2012 at 9:58 pm
Joseph, do you really want this to devolve into a direct impingement vs short-stroke piston argument? I agree that in the field, your SIG is probably more reliable. But I can guarantee the government has a whole lot more spare parts than you do.
And the reason I called the above poster an ‘idiot,’ is because I simply doubt he would understand a reasoned debate. He has copied and pasted two comments so far. That simply proves he lacks the ability to form arguments on his own.
Also, I absolutely appreciate your attempt at civility. I was once like you, and if you go back and read my comments from two years ago, when I first came here, you’ll see I was once a fairly civil commenter, too. But then I realized there’s no civility when arguing with the equivalent of a rabid, poisonous badger. And that’s when I realized I would mix in some old fashioned — and dare I say quite satisfying — contempt for many of my opponents. (Look up Jason Smith if you’d like an example. Or even better Funinsnow!)
I will do my best to return your civility, as you have proven yourself as a generally stand-up guy. For your colleagues, I sadly can make no promises.
(Oh, and for the record, I wasn’t bullied in high school. I just don’t suffer fools all that lightly.)
on June 14th, 2012 at 9:15 am
no, honey, they didn’t declare martial law after katrina. they did not suspend the writ of habeas corpus either. they did not disarm americans either.
and, sweetie, i do have a hard time believing that you were actually in the military – i’m pretty sure that if you were you’d realize that the department of homeland security includes the united states coast guard which is one of the five american armed services..
on June 14th, 2012 at 9:15 am
Yes, they do. I concede to your argument, they do have more parts, but do they have more discipline? I don’t know. I remember being 19 and in the military.
We still don’t need to resort to name calling. If you’re going to call me a name, please use more than 3 syllables. Although I do like the rabid poisonous badger remark. I liken them to racists of all shapes and sizes.
I will look those people up.
In short – I like it. I believe people should get as good as they give. If you can’t take a lick, don’t give it.
I also see a lot of hypotheticals. Mr. Amirkhanov makes very good points…however, as I said, martial law was not “legally / officially” declared. However, war was never officially declared in Korea either. But if you ask my uncles and my father (if he was still alive) that’s what they’re going to call it.
I work in the law and too many times we rely on what is official – on paper – and that works in court – but this isn’t court. This is life, and the 82nd Airborne who was on the ground in NOLA, confisgated firearms. And not from gang bangers.
Forgive me for being drawn out. My son is having issues at this school, during the school year of course, and now I am looking at finding a private school for him to attend, because the administration (and my wife works for this district) refuse to admit they have no control over their gang population. But the scar on my son’s head tells a different story. And the best was when the principal admitted that there was “no feces being smeared in the hallway.” Well then why if your custodian cleaning it?
But if you go to the school board, there is not mention of it in the records. So guess what? It didn’t happen.
That is why hypotheticals don’t work, because things happen. It happened. It can happen again. What’s wrong with vocally speaking out against it?
on June 14th, 2012 at 9:16 am
Forgive the typos. I’m trying to work here…
on June 14th, 2012 at 9:21 am
incidentially, the only time that martial law was actually declared in this country – with suspension of habeas corpus – was in portions of the south during the civil war.
on June 14th, 2012 at 10:28 am
Erica – hello. I have had two retorts struck in a row. I don’t know why. But, you certainly have a right to your opinion and I respect that. I don’t like being called a liar, but I respect it none the less.
I am a veteran, not proud of many things in my life but I am proud of my service, and my children, and my wife. :)
You sound like a good lawyer who knows her facts, but I can’t show you any facts. Field orders are not made public. So, since I can’t prove my assertions, I will regress.
Oath keepers serve a purpose, as do attorneys and their paralegals. Thank you ma’am.
on June 14th, 2012 at 10:46 am
Ok so if there is no insurgency why would the US government just order the military to disarm people, blockade cities, and bring in foreign peacekeepers?
on June 14th, 2012 at 11:00 am
I pass on the foreign peacekeepers. I think we have too many gun owners, some of whome have no sense, to convince our Gov that is a bad idea. There’s no happy ending with that, so I don’t think there would be an attempt.
Blockading cities – too many back roads; they have a hard enough time keeping up with America’s Most Wanted. Not so much.
Disarming people – see above.
You’re making it very hard for me to post a good argument. I said forget about the hypotheticals and that’s all I’m being left with.
Is that why people resort to name calling?
Maybe we just want a cool boys club?
It’s obvious I am not going to convince you. I’m not really trying. The child molestor above is a bad example of an Oath Keeper, bad, bad example. I can say that you have these predators in all forms of local, municipal, county, state, and federal government. Teachers, military men/women, priests. Does that mean that the entire Catholic Church is bad? Pedophiles are everywhere, unfortunately, this one makes us look bad. I see that.
You know, we let Steven Seagal be a part time Sheriff’s Deputy in Louisiana. Can I be an Oath Keeper?
on June 14th, 2012 at 11:33 am
Joseph, stuff is getting stuck. I had a perfectly decent reply to you sort of disappear without getting posted, and another one do rthe same for a day, which is why you didn’t see it till recently.
Some people have alluded to certain orders, which I can’t discuss here. What I am saying is that those who don’t know how things work could find themselves on the wrong side of a putsch.
You appear deserving of courtesy and attention. This Stammtisch has been crashed by those who did not, including one who recently deteriorated from being a simple lunatic into a necrosadistic corpse-flogger.
I think anyone on this forum is open to honest debate, but we have had too many virtual riots carried out by verbal Brown Shirts.
on June 14th, 2012 at 11:57 am
By the way, guys, the corpse-flogger hasn’t gone away.
on June 14th, 2012 at 2:03 pm
Ruslan,
“Ok so if there is no insurgency why would the US government just order the military to disarm people, blockade cities, and bring in foreign peacekeepers?”
What are you talking about now? What is your point?
During Katrina, police and military went house to house, without warrants, without due process, and took people’s firearms from them when they had committed no crime. This was well documented on mainstream news media.
During Katrina, people were not allowed to leave the city, but were forced to stay in the Superdome under horrible conditions. This too was all over the news.
This is not paranoia. We watched it happen.
And even if it was, then the same accusation could be made about our founders who refused to ratify the Constitution until the Bill of Rights was added. Thank God THEY were paranoid enough to insist on spelling those things out beforehand, or we wouldn’t even have a Bill of Rights.
I think I’m done here. I don’t know if I will bother to come back and see any replies. I’m not going to play these stupid little hypothetical games anymore.
Where were we when Patriot Act passed? I was caught up in flag-waving hysteria, like almost everyone else. The Katrina fiasco was probably more significant in waking more of us up to the problem. I really didn’t start researching any of this in a serious way until early 2007. Why? Because that’s when the election cycle began, and I started paying more attention. It had absolutely NOTHING to do with Obama, whose name I hadn’t even HEARD of at that time.
So if someone wants to have the last word, and still insist that we’re all racists because we didn’t start organizing until 2007, I will not dignify it with any more responses. You’ve obviously made up your minds, and no amount of Truth is going to change it.
on June 14th, 2012 at 4:54 pm
My point hasn’t changed. They’re making a stand and taking an oath to refuse to obey orders that will most likely never happen. The orders they envision are clearly inspired by a number of JBS-style right-wing memes. The effect is to make it seem as though these orders are likely to be given, when in fact they would most likely not. It was for that reason I said they might as well add an oath not to obey the orders of aliens from space. That is just about as likely as the US military getting an order to disarm citizens for no reason.
on June 14th, 2012 at 5:07 pm
The fact he believed in keeping an oath he took has little to do with the fact he took away the rights and dignity of his daughter.
The man was convicted and deserves more than he go; his daugher will live forever with the memory of this diaster.
Now if we could only get the same justice standards applied to those on the left who are openly violating our laws, starting with MANY in the present Adminstration!
on June 14th, 2012 at 6:02 pm
The post-Katrina period was singularly lawless on the part of laypeople and authorities both, and I suspect what Brownie was doing a heckuva job at was ethnicly cleansing some prime real estate. Malign neglect and some active malfeasance was supposed to free it up for worthier investors, but a presstitute corps shocked for the moment into a semblance of journalism, plus the loyalty of the inhabitants to the Pearl of the River, put the brakes on the scheme. Nonetheless, the city is permanently damaged. The Bush Administration would not have treated a nice, white, Republican city like that, and I’ve seen nothing like it since.
on June 15th, 2012 at 8:30 am
I wholeheartedly agree with that Reynardine, and I live a few miles away from our esteemed ex-president. That would not have happened if the demographics were a bit different and the 9th Ward among other neighborhoods were not ground zero. This was a mistake we cannot let be repeated.
on June 15th, 2012 at 9:22 am
Joseph, you live in the Midland/Odessa area? I am speechless…
A beautiful vista when I knew it, but Texas, God love it, can be difficult.
on June 15th, 2012 at 11:24 am
Joseph, since my other post never got there, I will state that nothing appears subject to reproach about your mode of life. The “Wooden Leg” remark refers to a category of psychological defense posited by Dr. Eric Berne is “Games People Play” where some hardship/disability is used to authenticate a position that really has nothing to do with it. What I was saying is that most of us here have stood up for something at risk to ourselves, and most have taken one or more kicks in the slats. But I am fairly convinced at this point that you can stand on your own merits without that.
Now, since my prior post never got there, I will state that
Whether I am man or woman
Whether I am brute or human
Or even Ghoul-
is, at my age, immaterial to me and rightly to everyone else.
(My thanks to Edward Lear)
on June 15th, 2012 at 2:25 pm
Sorry, that was Edgar Allen Poe.
on June 15th, 2012 at 4:49 pm
Joseph, sweetie – I was wrong to imply that you are a liar please accept my apology :)
on June 15th, 2012 at 5:09 pm
I like it. You sound like a good lawyer I wouldn’t mind working for. I live in Carrollton, North Dallas. He has a place in North Dallas too.
Veterans tend to forget, quite often, that we are not the only warriors. We fight because of orders. I am not aware of any unjust wards. I was not aware of the DHS obtaining the Coast Guard. I thought the Coast Guard was still the Department of Transportation. Enlisted men and women often find themselves only worried about what is in front of them. We don’t watch the news, cut into our beer drinking time.
I am sure you and others fought and lost, same as we did. Thank you for that. There’s a reason why we fight, it would be far worse if we didn’t.
on June 15th, 2012 at 5:10 pm
I meant, unjust wars. Not really in the approved learning manuals of the US Military. :)
on June 18th, 2012 at 8:33 am
Joseph, I forgot that W moved to Big D, now that he doesn’t need his dude ranch to impress people with what a regular guy he is. ¡Pobre de ti! I hope you are upwind of him.
on June 18th, 2012 at 10:07 am
Wind don’t blow up here…it’s hot.
on June 18th, 2012 at 12:44 pm
Well, Joseph, I lived on the High Plains for 3 1/2 years, so for me it’s hard to imagine a windless Texas.
on June 18th, 2012 at 1:52 pm
Figure of speech. :)
on July 13th, 2012 at 2:23 am
If I am not mistaken, Dyer made several youtube videos which were critical of Bush era policies and was prosecuted for sedition. One of the reasons a decision was made not to include him with Oathkeepers and why he did not continue his association with the Tea Party movement was that he was not sufficiently vetted among them as a Republican.
Dyer had specifically been prosecuted for Sedition due to his opposition to several Patriot Act policies and his vehement objections to several issues surrounding the war in Iraq. If you look at most of the posts here from people claiming to represent the Oathkeeper organization, the vast majority appear to be making claims of disassociation with Dyer due to his political views being more independent. An examination of comments on several related Youtube channels indicates that although several of the people associated with Oathkeepers and Tea Party disagreed with Dyer’s political statements, they feel that he got railroaded on the child rape charges.
He has maintained that the rape allegations were false, and the actions of a vindictive ex-wife in the midst of a hostile divorce proceeding. A site with a similar name as this one “Hatetrackers” instead of “Hatewatch” constantly ran articles against Dyer prior to that site being taken down when it turned out the publisher, James Vincent Nix, was actively engaged in a number of fraud related crimes while implying to have connections with this organization (SPLC) (as reported in local news out of Oklahoma).
I would like to know if Hatewatch and Hatetrackers have had any history of collaboration in research, investigation, or referencing each other’s articles, or if the SPLC has an history of employing James Nix or financially rewarding his efforts.
Part of the “conspiracy theories” in other forums include speculation on whether or not James Nix (Hatetrackers) was employed by Hatewatch (SPLC) to assist in coaching Dyer’s ex-wife in making her improved version of “he raped the child” allegations which had initially been dismissed as false upon the initial investigation, and then as Dyer’s situation became more politicized, the prosecution moved forward with the rape charges.
This case has looked from the beginning like this guy was accused of having objectionable political views and then convicted of rape because of it, when the rape case alone had very little to stand on and previous sedition charges over his political views were determined by a court martial to narrowly fall within the confines of free speech.
There was no prior history of any similar allegation from other people, no evidence of a fascination with child sex (like kiddie porn or related literature, fantasy stories, ect), DNA evidence was either negative or inconclusive, no history of sexual misconduct on his side of the family.
on July 13th, 2012 at 3:54 pm
Still waiting on that answer folks. Has there been any direct connection between the SPLC operation and Hatewatch and James v Nix organization/website called Hatetrackers?
Do you people at the SPLC consider Hatetrackers to have been a credible source of information or not?
on July 18th, 2012 at 11:27 am
Aron,
Sorry if my pasting bothers you so much. I will refrain from doing so in the future to allow you to have a better day.
As for your comment towards me I will also let that roll off. Funny how you attack me directly even though I have not offended you at all.
You are forgiven for your ignorance.