This is not the only such person growing over-bold, and I wonder what this portends.

And Indigenous Native Americans are “naturally” resilient.

good thing we have the white supremacists like this around to show how silly the entire notion of white supremacy is.

incidentially, most white people in the Americas are “white” solely because they look white. Pretty much the result you’d expect from 400-500 years of race mixing

What is even more interesting is how many “white” people turn out to have African or Native American blood. I have a good friend who is a geneologist, and who has found several instances in which “white” families in fact have black ancestors. Given the “incomplete dominance” genetically of skin color (e.g., unlike eye color, where the presense of a brown eye gene is expressed over the recessive blue eye gene), it doesn’t take many generations for all sorts of racial traits to become difficult to detect simply by looking at people.

We recently learned that, in addition to my family’s very well established Mayflower heritage, we also have an African-American ancestor. We are still learning about her, because some ancestors on that side of the family never mentioned her. I am excited at the prospect of learning more about who she was and what her life was like–just as I have about some of the my other ancestors (who included people on both sides of the Salem Witch Trials).

These people are so desperate. It’s sad, but it’s also worrisome because of the venom they spew (and might spew at me now if they knew that I have African American ancestory in my background)!

Given many of the “whites” that I have met from the American south, I would have to ask “Superior to what or whom?”

Why is it that the abhorrent white supremacists espouse the dogmatic “superiority” and “supremacy” of whites, but at that same time, they cry and whine, once “equality” is established in any civilization. They make it sound like whites are very very easily perishable.

Does anyone have a link to this ape’s essay?

Hey Mark,

Didn’t your forebears use AK-47′s and derail trains to gain freedom?
What did Mr. Hill write that was wrong? Is the Bible wrong? Is God wrong?

I’m confronted, as I frequently am by the Far Right, w/ the “Crazy or Evil?” conundrum.

The SPLC say they are anti-racist. But they only advocate blending White countries out of existence. It’s easy to see that what they really are is anti-White. Anti-racist is just a code word for anti-White.

My my all these tolerant, understanding, context twisting and kind name calling anti Racist. Love the comment about the American south also. Likening everyone there to being stupid or inferior. I’m sure that poster only meant the white people in the American south right?

I don’t agree with everything about the League of the South, but Dr. Hill simply gives his opinion much like the New Black Panthers or La Raza neither of which get this sort of vitriol spewed at them.

Why not deal with his claims by debating with your own facts rather than calling someone an ape because you have no other intelligent response?

Markus:

How does God factor into this? I read a few essays by “Dr. Hill” last night, no doubt a learned man. I looked at the League of the South’s website this morning after I fed my daughter and she went back to sleep – and I couldn’t of course. I also saw a sight that was entitled DumpDC (that one was funny).

How does God and the bible factor into this? Unless you’re referring to the Old Testament’s reference to slavery. Which is open to much, much interpretation of course.

Which of these would you like to talk about Markus?

Judging from these comments you deny the existence of a “white race” on the one hand and have nothing but hatred for that non-existent “race” on the other. Nice trick.

Mark, why don’t you put your money where your mouth is? Since you so emphatically believe in negro equality why don’t you move your operation to a nice black country like Haiti? Or Zimbabwe? Or the Congo? You could have nothing but black executives and otherwise black employees working for you. Think of all that diversity strength you are missing out on now.

BTW, what’s your take on Israel’s treatment of those African immigrants? Sounds awfully KKK and white supremacist to me.

Mayflower? Puritan fanatics. It’s still the case today.

Well, Markus and Philip, since you are males, you can trace both your Mt and your Y lineages traced. I dare you.

Re: eye color. Far more complex than “brown” and “blue”. There are approximately three layers in the iris where pigment can be deposited, up to three kinds of pigment (black eumelanin, sepia eumelanin, and an orange phaeomelanin/lipochrome type), the natural color of the eyes’ blood vessels, and the thickness and structure of the iris itself, on which the presence of refractive blue depends. The predominant trend in “white” Americans is blended eye color: the muted, flacked teal found in much of central Europe, or various grades of hazel, a tweed color that tends to look light brown from a distance. Simple dominance/recessiveness doesn’t act like that.

No pure race exists on earth. Hominids do two things with abandon: they migrate, and they fornicate. That doesn’t scare me. What scares me is family trees that don’t branch and minds to match. Aside from that, any healthy, kindly human being is beautiful to me.

Get…traced, I meant to say; a caffeine-dependant person before the second pot is only partly articulate.

Let me head this off here, I can’t get over this:

I may be a minority here because I am a Christian. An Esoteric Christian. So I believe in a few more books than just the bible, but the bible is a good book. More a guide, than absolute law, but most have been guilty of using the good book for their own ideology. For instance, using the bible to support slavery, or the otherwise oppressed society that is explained in Dr. Hill’s essays.

FYI – Jesus was as white as Osama Bin Laden, sorry to break the news to you there buddy.

However, taken in the context of the time, slaves were won out of conquest. The Hebrew Slaves were even a singular case because they were kind of assimilated into the Egyptian culture vis-à-vis Joseph and his coat of many colors, the first Hebrew Regent of Egypt. They were kind of duped into it over a period of time, but nevertheless they were not conquered.

Now the people that the Hebrews conquered – different story, back in those days when you lost a fight, your identity went with it, therefore, you were more or less at the mercy of your conqueror, i.e. their slaves. See, the Old Testament was not meant to provide you with a way of life, contrary to popular opinion; it was more of a journal kept by their tribal leaders.

I’m not going to stone my son to death because he is disobedient, nor is it okay to kill my wife and take another because she can have babies. So goes with slavery, but even then, they were conquered. You saw what happened when they weren’t conquered right? Plagues, locusts, frogs, and death…

Kind of like paying one African tribe to kidnap the members of another African tribe, without giving them an opportunity to defend themselves, ship them overseas, rape their women, castrate their men, give them as toys to children who are not taught any better.

And Dr. Hill states slaves were treated better than whom? You must be joking! I can tell you that my dog eats better than most homeless people in Africa, and he’s got his own chair too – but he’s still a dog though isn’t he.

I will be fair and concede that most Union troops didn’t treat black women any better than their slave masters. Yes, I will concede that when slavery ended black people had to fend for themselves. Yes, I will concede that not all were abused. With that being said, I will also concede that IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN.

Tell you what. You want to secede. Get a bunch of your friends together. Pool your useless paper money together, create your own credit union, and give out no interest loans to your people. Buy some land. Home school your kids. Grow your own corn. Breed your own cattle. Make your own electricity (using trained guinea pigs of course – row – row). Dig holes, catch rain, and do like the Romans did (your just like them). Don’t use worthless paper money (more for me). Shoot all the guns you want (I have an SKS for sale, you want it?) Make your own bullets. Sew your own clothes. And pray (to he who walks behind the rose) cause you aren’t praying to my Jesus. Get your own radio station, to ensure communication. Decipher the $1 bill, that us Masons made of course. Buy a bunch of land, I mean thousands of acres, build a church and give it a name.

Oh I forgot; you’re already doing those things. So what in on God’s green Earth are you fussing about?

Well, white Europeans DID bring most of the globe under their control during the colonialism of the late 19th and early 20th Century. The problem though with the idea that whites were superior is that they couldn’t stop killing one another in wars could they. So for all their ‘enlightenment’, it didn’t stop the bloodletting.

Now I would say at each race has their own strengths and weaknesses. That might not be PC to say but that’s from encountering people in my travels.

Well lookee here. I thought this was going to be a boring thread, but now we got the mouth-breathing, window-licking White Nationalists in here spitting every Stormfront cliche at us. Let’s play WHACK-A-MORON!

“Didn’t your forebears use AK-47’s and derail trains to gain freedom?”

Uh…What? I think you got some wars mixed up.

“Is the Bible wrong?”

Yes.

” Is God wrong?”

No, because God does not exist. Have a nice day.

And here’s Phillip with another cliche straight outta Stormfront:

“The SPLC say they are anti-racist. But they only advocate blending White countries out of existence. It’s easy to see that what they really are is anti-White. ”

Really? Where do they advocate that? Where does ANYBODY actually advocate that? People keep popping up in here saying that people are consciously “blending” European nations by importing immigrants, but they can’t show us how. In fact it’s clear these people know little about immigration laws in their own countries, and they seem to think that groups like the SPLC land in developing countries and hand out residency permits to random people. It doesn’t work that way.

“Anti-racist is just a code word for anti-White.”

Right, because all “white” people are racists. The reason why you people are morons is that you think your over-simplistic, paranoid worldview is the proper one for all “white” people. So when people criticize that worldview, you think it’s against “white” people in general. That’s why I like to say:

“Anti-racist is just a code word for anti-White” is a code word for, “I’m an idiot.”

And then we have one from “holocaust survivor”(Keep it under your hat, but I don’t think this poster is a real holocaust survivor. Shhhhh,)

“Judging from these comments you deny the existence of a “white race” on the one hand and have nothing but hatred for that non-existent “race” on the other. Nice trick.”

Please show us some “hatred” for that non-existent race(race, in general, does not exist).

Oh wait, I just remembered that you WNs are allowed to pull whatever idiotic claims you want out of your ass without backing them up. Nice trick.

“Mark, why don’t you put your money where your mouth is? Since you so emphatically believe in negro equality why don’t you move your operation to a nice black country like Haiti? Or Zimbabwe? Or the Congo?”

Black Haitians, Zimbabweans, and Congolese are not black Americans. Potok is American. Why does believing in equality require people to move to a completely different country which has nothing to do with your own?

“You could have nothing but black executives and otherwise black employees working for you. Think of all that diversity strength you are missing out on now.”

All black wouldn’t be diversity now, would it?

“BTW, what’s your take on Israel’s treatment of those African immigrants? Sounds awfully KKK and white supremacist to me.”

This argument would work better if we weren’t all aware that you don’t give a damn about their rights and would like to do the same. Every time you morons pretend to care about Palestinians or some other group, we know that you’d be fine with ethnically cleansing them from “your” territory. It really weakens your argument.

Charles, where are the delineations of these “races”?

Joseph,

Tell me. Why did the white culture that built America need to be destroyed because of a few bad apples? The end result has been Compton, Watts, Detroit or most black dominated parts of town U.S.A. being literal cesspools of murder, corruption, drugs, assault and rape.

It’s blamed on the white man, bigotry, slavery, southern KKK and etc. There is little to no personal accountability. When do blacks and other non white races get to be held accountable for their own actions and not deemed special because of their minority status?

I might agree with you that all races are mixed and etc except for the fact that most all non white races see themselves as a unique race with unique interest both political and as a race. Few argue with this.

When whites try to organize or speak along those same lines or even lay that claims they are called white supremacist by folks like yourself or the SPLC.

Can you give me a good explanation for that? Can you deny that race whether perceived or real is a huge factor in most cultures?

Just read a psychiatric paper on the “spineless sociopath,” a personality disorder subset that describes these people to a tee.

These people are drawn to hate groups as part of a persona they want to project which is created to keep people from seeing clearly that they’re mouse like cowards.

It appears that “Dr.” Hill has successfully seceded from the human race.

Ruslan, honestly, a huge part of the reason I even BOTHER reading the comments section of SPLC is to see you, Aron, and Reynardine smack down these idiots and blowhards. I just wish I could do it as well as you guys and help out. Bravo, sir.

“Tell me. Why did the white culture that built America need to be destroyed because of a few bad apples?”

There is no such thing as “White” culture. Like it or not, America’s history is multi-cultural, including the history of European-descended immigrants.

” The end result has been Compton, Watts, Detroit or most black dominated parts of town U.S.A. being literal cesspools of murder, corruption, drugs, assault and rape.”

Hmm…Much like many places in “white” Eastern Europe. It’s almost like there’s some kind of, economic, historical reason for these facts. Maybe we should look into that instead of assuming this happens because the people happen to be black.

“It’s blamed on the white man, bigotry, slavery, southern KKK and etc.”

Some of that blame is most certainly legitimate. Slavery did not end in 1865 you know.

“There is little to no personal accountability.”

Right, because conservatives and WNs are so big on “personal accountability.”

” When do blacks and other non white races get to be held accountable for their own actions and not deemed special because of their minority status?”

Blacks and other minorities are often held accountable for things that aren’t even their fault. You don’t notice that because you want to see a narrative where blacks take all the blame.

“I might agree with you that all races are mixed and etc except for the fact that most all non white races see themselves as a unique race with unique interest both political and as a race. Few argue with this.”

I’m arguing it. Which “non-white races” see themselves that way?

“When whites try to organize or speak along those same lines or even lay that claims they are called white supremacist by folks like yourself or the SPLC.”

Ever notice how people don’t label Irish clubs or Polish clubs as hate groups? There’s a reason for that. “White” is an identifier that was dreamed up solely to reinforce a system of inequality and oppression. While various European ethnic groups have dark periods in their history(and some have virtually none), you cannot say that their very identity is bound up with oppression. German culture doesn’t mean “Holocaust”, British culture doesn’t need to be reduced to the conquest of India. Ukrainian culture isn’t limited to pogroms, and Serbian culture and identity are not inextricably bound up with Srebrenica.

The very identity of “white” was designed specifically to maintain supremacy(primarily the supremacy of the ruling class in America). So white “pride” inevitably means supremacy.

“Can you give me a good explanation for that? ”

Just did. You’re welcome.

Thanks for the support Supersonic. I’d like to think that occasionally a WN reads what I have to say and questions his or her beliefs. They have everything to gain and nothing to lose from getting out of the movement.

Supersonic,

Glad to know we’re appreciated. Though I must bow to Ruslan and Rey for their infinitely greater skill at ‘the game.’ :)

I wonder if any of these people have considered what a white monoculture would look like. I can’t believe they have because the resulting society would be bland indeed.

1) No rock music or any of it’s derivatives.

2) No ethnic foods. What does a WN eat, I wonder? Mutton stew 3x per day?

3) No guns. Guns are a yellow chinese communist conspiracy, you know.

4) No jewish science or technology. The contribution of the secular jewish diaspora to western civilization is far in excess of their numbers.

5) No numbers. Islamofascist invention. It must be all IV and XI with those WN’s. Not so much 88 as LXXXVIII.

6) No Jesus. Too obvious to mention.

I also thank you, Supersonic, and though I believe she is young, don’t overlook Erika.

Ruslan I beg to differ. When one grows E. coli on an agar dish one gets “white culture.”

Asian countries for the Asians
African countries for the Africans
White countries for everyone!

No one is saying Asian countries need diversity.

No one is saying African countries need diversity.

They are already 100% diverse.

Everyone says White countries and ONLY White countries need diversity.

When White countries are 100% diverse there will be NO MORE White people!

Diversity is a code word for White genocide.

Anti-racist is a code word for anti-White.

And Holocaust Survivor (in this case) is Cade for ‘functional retard!’

“Asian countries for the Asians
African countries for the Africans
White countries for everyone!”

Who is saying this? Name them.

“No one is saying Asian countries need diversity.”

“Asian countries” are diverse. Just because you assume all the people are the same because they look similar to your eyes doesn’t mean they are the same. Just in China alone there are somewhere around 60 different nationalities, from the Han Chinese, to the Tunguskic Manchu, the Turkic Tatars, and even European Russians.

“No one is saying African countries need diversity.”

African countries are also diverse. And seeing as how Europe, America, China, India, and Saudi Arabia are all investing in Africa, it is clear that they are not leaving “Africa to the Africans.”

“They are already 100% diverse.”

There is no such thing as 100% diversity. The problem is you see Africa as simply Africa, Asia as Asia, as if all the people there are the same. They are not. The same goes for Europe. Europe is not a mass of “white” people. It was diverse long before any immigration from outside began.

“Everyone says White countries and ONLY White countries need diversity.”

Everyone? Please, give us a name. You know some people like you( possibly you) have spammed this board numerous times with these same words, and not ONCE have they ever managed to tell us who is saying this.

“When White countries are 100% diverse there will be NO MORE White people!”

I don’t know if you were aware of this, but humanity began in Africa and early humans were indeed “black” or at least dark skinned. Somehow people with a “white” appearance evolved from that population. It stands to reason that even if this idiotic scenario you propose happened, people with a “white appearance” would never disappear. You can find people of such appearance all throughout the Middle East and Central Asia, and they have lived there for centuries. Most Latin American countries still have sizable(in some cases majority populations of “white European” people.

Perhaps more importantly, even if Europe were 100% European, it wouldn’t be white. I don’t know if you follow the news, but just a couple days ago a massive riot broke out between Polish and Russian football fans in Warsaw. I would have LOVED to have seen you there standing in between the two groups of hooligans as they approached one another, telling them how they’re all “white” and they shouldn’t fight one another.

“Diversity is a code word for White genocide.

Anti-racist is a code word for anti-White.”

See these phrases represent the little tantrum you throw when you get called on your BS and can’t back up your ridiculous claims. On Stormfront you’re probably considered some kind of scholar, but here in the real world where you aren’t protected by mods, you need to provide some evidence for your claims.

Now I asked you to provide the identity of this “everyone” who is allegedly saying that “white countries” need to become non-white. I doubt you will even attempt to do so. I on the other hand, will provide a few stories I discovered within 30 seconds of typing “Japan needs immigrants” into google.

^[3]

^[4]

Here’s one on China: ^[5]

I believe, Aron, that the only “holocaust” he has survived is his perceived holocaust of all kinds of “colored people” out to tint his perceivedly pure-white self. I wager even money he’s (1) a goy; (2) a Holocaust-denier.

I have an unfair advantage over these racists. See I’ve been hearing these same arguments almost non-stop for years(well, not so much in recent years outside of here). In general they aren’t good arguments to begin with, but the uninitiated are often shocked by their sheer stupidity.

Vox, thank you for your inquiry sir (excuse my typos).

The white culture that built America has an absolute right to life, but your argument is lost on how they built it, i.e., slaves, child labor, women’s suffrage.

I believe in the right to life for anyone. From fetuses to white supremacists.

My mother begged me to join the Navy after I turned 19, because I lived past the age of 18, due to being raised in a broken home, in the middle of Houston, Texas, in one of those neighborhoods. Let me add a few neighborhoods to your “hood of horrors” list, 5th Ward, Trinity Gardens, Kashmere Gardens.

I escaped the unholy trinity of Gangs, Guns and Drugs. Then I ended up in the Navy, which is a bigger, cooler gang, with bigger, cooler guns, and more diverse drugs.

But you have to take your mind off of your job, when your in the back of a helicopter, holding on to a really big gun, and high 12 years olds are shooting at you off of the coast of Angola.

But yes, these are bad neighborhoods. I could easily say that if Reagan, Bush and “Ol’ Ollie North” didn’t let all of those drugs come into the black neighborhoods, or at least turn a blind eye to it (i.e. Iran Contra), then the black community wouldn’t think that Socialism is a good idea.

I mean, what’s the best way to gain equality – on forcible detainer right? Exchange drugs for the fight against communism, close the unions on the West Coast, for them to be unemployed, then let them have it with the cocaine.

History hasn’t taught enough freedom loving cultures that oppression breeds socialism. I don’t like it either, but I can’t convince them they’re wrong. The deck is stacked against me and I don’t blame them. After all, since they can ride in the front of the bus now all should be just fine right?

Race is an absolute factor in all cultures, except for the ones that only concentrate on ethnicity. I’ll give you an example. My great grandfather was black, but he was Mexican, so he didn’t consider himself black, but Mexican. Same thing with my wife’s family from Jamaica, they’re not black, they’re Jamaican. Not my idea, but they’res.

I’m not mad at your pride. Be proud, I’m just letting you know, it will not happen again. Incidentally, I didn’t coin the phrase “Redbone” so I didn’t name myself anything, but there is a nice little write up in Wikipedia for it.

You have a right to white pride. But you lost the argument with the “slavery being in the past” , slaves really had it good.”, it’s over, forget about it, you’re not slaves anymore.

Not when it was only 40 years ago that we were not allowed to use the same bathroom. You cannot just up and forget about 450 years of abuse. HOW could you? 40 years plus a black president doesn’t erase that.

That’s why this is a sore subject. And to say that slaves really had it better than history shows, what? That is exactly what Hill wrote.

It’s your history – and that’s what history shows? We only have a month for history, and it’s the shortest dam month of the year at that. And we celebrate non-violence.

Also, I am not sure about black people not accepting responsibility for their actions since they are given the responsibility for them anyway, you ever study how many blacks and Mexicans are in prison versus whites.

But I’ve never met a black man who cooked Meth, or muled it. You have entire white counties like Wise County here at home, that have taken up that hobby.

Next?

Holocaust survivor, which would impy you’re Jewish right???

Let me key you in on something. You really think they like you?

“Africa for the Africans & Asia for the Asians” was the rallying cry of the Europeans who colonized Africa and Asia and forcibly “imported” their inhabitants to “white countries” right? America for the “Indians”, not so much.

Is anyone saying that Asian countries and ONLY Asian countries must be flooded with hundreds of millions of non Asians with whom Asians are forced to “assimilate”, a.k.a. intermarry?

Is anyone saying that Black countries and ONLY Black countries must be flooded with hundreds of millions of non blacks with whom Blacks are forced to “assimilate”, a.k.a intermarry?

It is White countries and ONLY White countries which are being flooded with hundreds of millions of non Whites with whom Whites are forced to “assimilate”, a.k.a. intermarry.

“Everyone” is anyone who supports the flooding of White countries and ONLY White countries with hundreds of millions of non Whites with whom Whites are forced to “assimilate”, a.k.a intermarry.

Suppose I said that black countries and ONLY black countries must be flooded with hundreds of millions of non blacks in order to provide diversity and blacks must be forced to “assimilate”, a.k.a intermarry, with all those non blacks?

How long would it take anyone to realize I’m not talking about diversity. I’m talking about the final solution to the black problem. And how long would it take for any sane black man to object to this and what kind of psycho black man wouldn’t object to this?

But if I tell you about the ongoing program of genocide against my race, the White race, liberals and respectable conservatives agree I’m anaziwhowantstokillsixmillionjews.

They say they are anti-racist but what they are is anti-White.

Anti-racist is a code word for anti-White.

“Is anyone saying that Asian countries and ONLY Asian countries must be flooded with hundreds of millions of non Asians with whom Asians are forced to “assimilate”, a.k.a. intermarry?”

Is anyone, at least anyone who actually has a name and really exists saying that what you call “white” countries should be flooded with “hundreds of millions”(you’re not good at math, are you?) non-white immigrants? I need a name other than “everybody.”

I have already provided some articles showing Western media sources recommending that Japan take on more immigrants(and indeed, it is, because it must), yet you haven’t shown us a single piece of evidence backing up your claim.

If we exclude Japan and Korea, we see that the other largest Asian economies, India and China, do not exactly have a serious shortage of people at the moment. In any case, both countries receive immigrants.

And please, tell us who is forcing “whites” to intermarry with these people?

“Is anyone saying that Black countries and ONLY Black countries must be flooded with hundreds of millions of non blacks with whom Blacks are forced to “assimilate”, a.k.a intermarry?”

See the above.

“It is White countries and ONLY White countries which are being flooded with hundreds of millions of non Whites with whom Whites are forced to “assimilate”, a.k.a. intermarry.”

Who is doing the “flooding/” Do you know anything about European or US immigration law? It doesn’t look like it. WHO is forcing “whites” to intermarry with immigrants?

“Everyone” is anyone who supports the flooding of White countries and ONLY White countries with hundreds of millions of non Whites with whom Whites are forced to “assimilate”, a.k.a intermarry.”

Nope, sorry, I want NAMES. I want to know who “EVERYONE” is. You’re telling me people are saying this. You always tell me people are saying this. Shouldn’t be hard to come up with some names.

Who is forcing white people to marry these immigrants? Again, names.

“But if I tell you about the ongoing program of genocide against my race, the White race, liberals and respectable conservatives agree I’m anaziwhowantstokillsixmillionjews.”

No, most of us agree you’re a moron because there is no “program of genocide” against the “white race”(which doesn’t exist, along with the equally non-existent black or “Asian” race). Numerous times you have claimed that whites are forced to intermarry with foreign immigrants. You cannot show us how this is happening. In other words, you are extremely upset about something that ISN’T HAPPENING.

“They say they are anti-racist but what they are is anti-White.

Anti-racist is a code word for anti-White.”

See what I like about smacking down your pathetic replies the most is that you probably came on here in hopes that you would impress people with your arguments, which worked so well on Stormfront. Yet all you are doing is showing thousands of “white” people that White Nationalists believe in things that don’t exist, and that they cannot defend their wacky claims with any evidence.

By all means, prove me wrong.

Holocaust Survivor,

Stop. Just stop. Enough with the copypasta troll idiot crap. You’ve lost. Now go back to Stormfront.

Oh, wait. You can’t! LOLOLOLOLOL!!!

@ Joseph,
So, when were you taking fire off the coast of Angola? Presumably you were not in the South African navy.

As for our “survivor”, I wonder, to which “white” country he is referring? The US is not white by any definition that matters, in that the political and civic culture is not (officially) governed by the colour of one’s skin. Maybe he is confused and thinks the Confederate States still exist (officially). Oh the tragedy of having been born 150 years too late.

Hey if anyone here has a news story about a white American who was forced to marry an immigrant of non-European descent, please post it.

the phony “holocaust survivor” is a prime example to disprove white supremacy.

Although I think we may have a return visitor from Onancock here. Remember that male supremacist moron who showed up on the men’s right thread and tried to claim that women were plotting to get rid of men – doesn’t he sound exactly like that guy?

holocaust survivor: I’m lost on your aka intermarry argument. I don’t look the way I do because of intermarriage, it wasn’t legal to “intermarry” back then. My sisters and I look this way due to a lot of rape through a lot of years.

Whites are not forced to marry blacks. They did rape the HELL out of them, though.

Didn’t you read Dr. Hill’s essay? Even Union troops raped southern black women, before they freed them of course.

Byt the way, I think you’re just joking with your name…

And FYI when you say Anti-Racist equals Anti-White, your stating that all White people are racists. I don’t like to insult, but I have to say you’re not the brightest crayon in the box. Unless your proud of that.

Vox..you said “I might agree with you that all races are mixed and etc except for the fact that most all non white races see themselves as a unique race with unique interest both political and as a race. Few argue with this.”

This is patently false. As a group, Asians do not consider themselves a “unique race with unique interest both political and as a race” at all. In fact, the opposite is true. “Asian” as a group appears to be a European construct as the Chinese to not see themselves as affiliate to the Indians/Pakistanis who are not Japanese who are not Persian who are not Arab who are not….well, you get the picture.

The same is true of Hispanics, despite the politicians trying to see us as a singular voting block. Cubans are not Puerto Ricans who are not Mexicans who are not El Savadoran…and so on. All have different issues that impact them. Cubans (especially in Miami), tend to be more conservative and anti Castro regime. Chicanos in Los Angeles couldn’t care less about Cuba but do have opinions on the immigration debate. Puerto Ricans? We can come a go back and forth into the mainland as we are citizens thanks to the Jones Act so not so much an issue.

Europeans, unlike certain European-Americans, disagree they are a single group. The English, for example, consider the “continent” to be completely different from themselves and have maintained their independence from the rest of Europe as much as possible. The Poles always seem to get nervous when Germany is a unified country (but then again, Germany does seem to invade Poland whenever it gets unified with a powerful leader in charge)! And so on.

Even in the US, “White” is a moving target. Italians and the Irish were not considered “White” for a long time but are considered part of the “White” racial category right now.

I’m pretty sure that the vast majority of Americans families qualify as very diverse when you start tracing back family histories.

According to my family history, the largest contributing group is “unknown” – that is undoubtably typical especially among people whose families can be traced back to colonial times.

Well, methinx I was right about the kind of “holocaust” that Holocaust Survivor thinks he survived.

Africans, Asians, and indiginous Americans were all forced to “intermarry”, without any ceremony and often without consent of the impregnated, their white colonial overlords. The bibi-khana- the place where Indian and Anglo-Indian military concubines were kept- was a regular feature of the British Raj. “Eight-annas”, “Eurasians”, and after WWII, “Amerasians” were a regular occurance in colonized and occupied countries, and equivalent mixes occurred in parts of both North and Central Africa held by the French, Belgians, and Dutch. The Americas south of the Rio Grande speaks for itself. All kinds of little white swimmers were released without any responsibility at all by the soldiers, officers, public officials, and even box-wallahs throughout the “nonwhite” world, and the tide that goes out always returns. Or, in other words, Holocaust, those are your own chickens coming home to roost and your premise is utterly invalid.

Interesting that Mr Potok posits the question about letting the League, and about 1/3 of all Southrons according to recent polls, get its wish of independence from the u.s. If he thinks we Southrons are so backward, stupid, dangerous, and irredeemable for wanting our freedom, one must wonder about the mental acuity of a people who sent over 300,000 of their own to their deaths 150 years ago to hold onto us, and has spent untold billions of their treasure ever since to keep us under their thumbs. If you’re stupid and dangerous enough to have done the foregoing – you might be a yankee (kudos to Jeff Foxworthy). One must also wonder why people like Mr Potok and the SPLC would choose to be headquartered in the Heart of Dixie. Why don’t y’all sell that multimillion dollar, silver-clad poverty palace in downtown Montgomery and relocate to New York City, Chicago, or Berkeley? I’m sure you’d feel much more at home, and safer, in one of those places. Mr Potok, you are the proverbial, ‘boy who cried wolf’ once too often. O racist epithet! Where is they sting? You, and your organisation, are laughable, and anyone capable of rational thought knows better than to take you, or the SPLC, seriously.

Dan: in England, I believe the WASP purists’d eat that, along with soggy brussels sprouts in hot library paste. Here, I think it’d be stewed chicken, lots of instant mashed potaoes with margarine, and the Pillsbury Dough Boy (with more margarine).

Sorry, Dan, I forgot the stringy potroast and carrots and peas.

Back when communism was still a going concern, the best argument against it could be made by simply comparing two areas that should have been similar, one that had been under capitalism, and the other under communism, Say for instance, West Berlin and East Berlin. Well that isn’t much of an issue these days, but we have another idea that can be similarly proved false. So, the blacks and the whites (as races) have equal smarts, equal potential, equal abilities?
Let’s compare Pittsburg and Detroit. One is a thriving city, the other is a sinkhole of crime and government dependency. Don’t like the comparison? Any comparison between just about any black area, city, or country and a white area, city or country will prove that no, the races are not really equal. Any white liberal who disputes this is simply unwilling to see what is in front of him, but I’ll bet this same white liberal would not send his kids to a public school in Detroit, or any other largely black public school. Of course, if he did, his kids would open his eyes for him.

Holocaustsurvivor:

You are a complete idiot and a racist d-bag. Anti-racist is code for anti-racist. We hate YOU, not white people. I am white myself (whiter than white bread, whiter than paper), and I hold no inherent hatred for my own kind. That said, I have no inherent PRIDE for my own kind either, because I PERSONALLY think having pride in your race is stupid because we’re all human. Of course you would argue otherwise, and that reinforces the fact that you are completely moronic with no valuable contribution to society. If you value “white countries” so much… Move to another one so we don’t have to hear your BS any more, please?

Also, you’re an even BIGGER d-bag for using the phrase “final solution to the black problem.” You Nazi jerk.

Reynardine –
Love your suggestion for some of these folks to trace their mitochondrial and Y DNA. I member of my family (one who freaked over the idea of a black ancestor in our paternal line), traced both his Y and his mitrochondrial DNA. The mitochondrial DNA (which I share with him), was a real eye-opener: we share our mitochondrial DNA back to some dude called “Cheddar Man,” a stone-aged skeleton (the most complete stone-aged skeleton found to date in Great Britain) found in the caves where they age Cheddar Cheese (hence Cheddar Man). These people pre-dated Stonehenge and–wait for it–they were cannibals! There is a “Cheddar Man and Cannibalism Museum” near the cave that I hope to visit someday to view the stomping grounds of my oldest known ancestors.

Of course, some of the same relatives who have been a bit unsettled by the discovery of an African American ancestor are also a bit ambivalent about Grandpa Chompers — and I do wonder if, back then, there was any sort of stigma attached to eating–or not eating–other people.

I enjoy ethnic heritage because it is interesting and rich and in some cases, it resonates. This enjoyment neither denigrates nor elevates other ethnicities/races (and race really is an artificial construct). As someone with Scottish blood — among other things (Northern European mix — with the little bit of African American mixed in)–I can’t imagine going back to warring among the clans. Would the white nationalists of today spit on persons of Irish descent the way many people did when they arrived in the U.S. in the mid-1800s? Because a lot of Protestant whites didn’t view them as “white,” but as whitish barbarian Catholic Irish critters.

As Dan Z. pointed out, we all benefit from the contributions of other cultures. Again, as someone whose most prominent ancestory is British Isles, I am incredibly grateful for this so that I’m not stuck eating little more than boiled food.

The U.S. and most of the rest of the world is very diverse. Deal with it.

Also, in regard to someone’s comment about Puritans and the Mayflower — the folks who originally came over weren’t just Puritans. About half of them were plain old adventurers and tradespeople who paid for their passage, thus helping to finance the trip. So even among this relatively homogeneous group, there were squabbles. One of my (non-Puritan) ancestors got fined by the Puritans running the settlement for dancing on Christmas–and English folk custom. The Puritans didn’t celebrate Christmas and they didn’t dance; horrors! their purity of heritage was sullied by the other evil (white) Englishmen!

Hey, Joseph, you said your wife is Jamaican. Is she a black Jamaican? Not all Jamaicans are black. Besides, every black person from Jamaica I’ve met say they’re proud to be black and Jamaican. And what do you consider yourself ethnically?

I have to give a rund of applause to Ruslan. He tears down the dumbass arguments made by white nationalists as usual.

Holocaust survivor, you clearly are a moron who doesn’t get anything whether it be history, immigration laws, whatever. You obviously copied and pasted your comments from a thread that was about a month or two ago. That’s very original.

Anybody got a direct link to this “essay”?

Ruslan, I definitely appreciate the efforts of you and your friends. I like to think of myself as a fighter among those lines too, but I don’t have it the way you guys do :)

As far as arguing with “holocaust survivor”, most of his posts are nothing but spam and cut-and-paste. No original thought, as per the course for these types. But noting the spammerific nature, shouldn’t his posts not even make it on here? I thought there were rules against spam…

I love how, when asked to support your lies, you can’t even manage to rephrase them. You just repeat them, over and over, hoping that someone will be dumb enough to mistake them for truth.

Oh wait, they aren’t even *your* lies. They’re the lies of a 71-year-old failed bureaucrat who’s desperately trying to leave some legacy before he dies of heart disease.

You’ve devoted hours and hours of your life, hours that you can never get back, to repeating lies that liberals laugh at, illiterate neo-Nazis nod at and then never think about again, and no one important will ever see. You’re spending all your time blaming an “anti-white conspiracy” for your failure to amount to anything, and in the process squandering your chance to make something of yourself. You preach self-reliance, but you can’t even rely on yourself to make coherent arguments.

Look at your life. Look at your choices. You still have a chance to correct them.

Trying to lump all “asians” into one homogeneous group, as “survivor” is doing is not only a misogynistic vision but the EXACT justification Japan used in trying to take over the pacific in WWII.

Living in Singapore, one quickly learns that “asian” is, at best, a geographic term and not one of racial classification. One is classified by nationality instead.

So goes “victim’s” position on “white”. In the early 20th century the Irish were told to go back home. While growing up I was in a community where Catholics were in a minority and often listened to people referring to my religion as a cult; some went to the point of saying we needed to live where more of “our kind” lived.

Xenophobia is what is the root of such racial animosity. And, people such as “victim” are grasping at ways to make themselves feel superior in any way. (I refuse to use his full moniker in respect for my childhood neighbors who DID survive Treblinka.)

It is always interesting to me to read all of the shadow denizens who appear when stories such as this are reported.

A POX on such as the leader of LOS and his supporters!

I live in the South and if we ever did leave the union I sure as heck wouldn’t want Michael Hill and his group running the show….racism is ugly no matter where it comes from.

While we are arguing, China is quietly developing the almost infinite wealth of Africa.

Daemonesslissa, while I wish I personally knew people like Ruslan, Erika, Aron, Coral Sea, and now Joseph, I have never met these people face to face and doubt I ever will. Our Stammtisch is virtual, but our conversation and (sometimes) alliance is real. Welcome to it.

Hey, I’ll do my best too to beat down these guys. Hope some day I can do it with as much finesse as you guys do. My words are a big freakin’ hammer compared to the katana of your logic….

….Good god, I am SUCH a nerd.

Cugel: We aided in certain ops from Angola to Liberia during the 90′s. Nothing fancy, we get shot at, nothing big. FYI – My favorite college class was Cultural Studies, my favorite term for what explains my “mix” is Miscegenation, in Houston they call me a Redbone, Blaxican, Creole, Half Breed. Other’s have chosen much “stronger” explanations for my mixture. One of the reasons I read these boards is because most of the individuals have more of an education and open mind when it comes to cultural diversity, and my wife and I absolutely love diversity. She is not so mixed. She is a beautiful dark skinned women who is proud of being a black educator.

ADM – I said my wife is Jamaican because when we BBQ and we get a little silly and full of Spirits, they remember their Jaimacan heritage and from what I gather, that is where her people were “imported” from. They trace themselves back to Jamaica, not West African.

On a more specific note, I served with a few Jamaicans, and at least here in the states, they were Jamaican, especially when at the club trying to pick up a date and they poured that accent on. :)

But great friends, and servicemen all. But that is why I said that, I guess at the time, and during those particular circumstances, being Jamaican worked in their favor.

It would only be fair to mention some of the other names certain individuals have given me, such as mud baby, mud puppy, bonified member of the mud people, I’ve already said half breed, then you have heinz 57, Kool-Aid, mutt, I heard spigger few times in Brenham, blaxican was actually a term of endearment but limeted to NorthWest Houston, the other names are not so very nice so I will leave them outside.

Joseph, that was Gregory asking you about your military service, not Cudgel. If your Jamaican wife is black, then she’s of West African descent as her ancestors were “imported” from West Africa.

“While we are arguing, China is quietly developing the almost infinite wealth of Africa.” – Sam Molloy

True and that’s why the United States has built military bases in African countries like Djibouti (Google AFRICOM) and sent 3,000 combat troops to Uganda. Get ready for another U.S.-created war front.

Good to know. I’ll tell her mom about the Jamaican thing. LOL. This is going to be good.

I apologize to Gregory but I now know why I remember that name.

It was his opinion that black areas are worse than white areas and white liberals wouldn’t send their kids to a black school. Using Pittsburgh and Detrioit as examples.

If you’re going to give an opinion, which you’re certainly entitled to, it would be nice if you would back up said opinions with something to suppport it?

I don’t think reality shows count as “good research”. And Detroit is coming in a major way.

Correction: “coming back…in a major way”.

Man this thread really exploded. Well it looks like “holocaust survivor” probably went back to Stormfront hanging his head in shame- I’m sure he was so confident that his copypasta screeds would have all us “Commies-and-Liberals” baffled and at a loss for words. Instead they get smacked down easily.

But then we got this other guy who tries to take a shot at the title. Not even close.

“Back when communism was still a going concern, the best argument against it could be made by simply comparing two areas that should have been similar, one that had been under capitalism, and the other under communism, Say for instance, West Berlin and East Berlin. Well that isn’t much of an issue these days, but we have another idea that can be similarly proved false. So, the blacks and the whites (as races) have equal smarts, equal potential, equal abilities?”

I see, a thought experiment. Well yes, this method of looking at things would be all very logical…assuming we’re all morons. If we haven’t suffered severe brain-damage caused by the use of inhalants, this idea is absolutely ridiculous whether we are comparing socialist nations to capitalist ones or black neighborhoods to white neighborhoods. Both have a specific history, both existed in concrete conditions that were largely out of the hands of the people who lived there. Black neighborhoods aren’t poor because the people are less intelligent; there used to be “white” ghetto areas back in the 19th and early 20th century and they were every bit as unpleasant.

Cugel is yet another shining example of white supremacy. I really have no idea what a comparison between Pittsburg, Kansas, the home of the Pittsburg State Univresity Gorillas and Detroit, Michigan. Generally small college towns are not too comparable to large cities.

Maybe he met Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania – the home of America’s thriving steel industry. Oopsie.

I could say a lot, and the most sensitive issue to me is not the constitutional debate we had on the other thread, but this. I am from a neighborhood much like the ones described above. And it absolutely amazes me that the people do not understand, cannot see, and will not look past color.

Do they even realize the votes they would gain out of these areas if they would just get rid of the hate?

My neighborhood, as like most of these neighborhoods, are predominantly Christian. Catholic, Methodist and Baptist, and conservative by nature. They love their bibles and their guns, and not just the gangs – but of course that is what they will say, gangs, gangs, gangs, gangs oh and did I mention – gangs.

Lets conveniently forget about who created the “gang” mentality and structure, i.e., The Cowboys, Cosa Nostra, New York circa late nineteenth century.

But I would rather live in a Liberal world, than one where my son is forced to surrender his dignity.

You know, some things just don’t bother us: I don’t care about gay marriage, but a lot of black families do, i.e., Christian. I don’t care of about socialized medicine, but a lot of black families do, because they don’t have insurance anyway, they lost their unions in California and the South during the 80′s. I don’t care about accumulating wealth as much as I do a positive legacy for my children. We don’t generally like immigration, we lost our jobs to lower wage earning employees. So a little bit of the “straddled fence” syndrome here. For the most part, we don’t like abortion.

We like the Bill of Rights, but think it applies to EVERYONE. Not just the people who wrote it, hypocrites and bigots they were, but it was a good idea. I think the principals are good and I will defend them, but not at the cost of my son’s dignity.

We have a habit of giving ourselves names. Like “Ghetto Bastard”. Calling ourselves that word that we didn’t like for so long.

Nothing really to do with race, religion or culture. More less a sub-culture. Has to do with where you are from, not what you look like. No daddy, no hope, worship the street more than God.

And like my mama, most hope their son doesn’t have a felony by the time he is 18 so he can join the military, or the “service” as we called it. But no mention of college, only work, work, work, work. Of course the is the alternative if you don’t want to work or join the service.

You can call it what you like, I call it home. But I guarantee you we know how it got that way. Yes, republicans had a lot to do with that. Are you aware of the evolution of Crack Cocaine? And you want us to take responsibility for what? Becoming a new kind of slave?

Yes, I acknowledge college and student loans, I acknowledge that if I can get out so can others. What do you acknowledge?

I know about that cocaine dump the Reagan Administration did into the inner cities in the mid-Eighties to fund their Iran Contra scheme; I know about their union-busting and their subsequent War on Drugs; I was aware of the strangely coincidental release of “gangsta” music at the same time, and I call it a deliberate scheme of helotization. Now it is not only dark-skinned minorities being helotized, but blue-collar whites, and these groups are being turned against each other.

I remember 1965. When we thought of the Twenty-First Century, we thought of two alternatives: a better world, or dead. Half-dead didn’t seem like an option, but it looks like the one we’ve got.

Coral Sea, is that what gives authentic Cheddar its special…je ne sais quoi…gives a whole new meaning to “cheesehead”, doesn’t it?

I was a little boy, but do you remember those commercials from the “War on Drugs”.

Nancy Reagan – “This is crack cocaine. It is highly addictive and dangerous. Did I mention it is highly addictive?”

I heard that ad execs actually used the blueprint for that “campaign” as a strategy for advertisements of other retail oriented mainstream products? Kind of tells you what they were really trying to do with it.

That is the exact reason why I cannot get past Ronald Reagan and his systematic breakdown of the black community. Oh, and don’t try to bring it up to Hannity and Levin. OMG you won’t get a word in edgewise. It’s so impossible and ludicrus to even suggest it.

And he’s the poster boy for economic recovery….indeed.

Joseph — I work in many neighborhoods as an environmental consultant and I have learned never to take for granted the views different people might have regarding race, ethnicity, age, income, and other factors that can influence attitudes toward others. For example, in one predominantly white, working class neighborhood on the near Southwest side of Chicago, I initially thought I might have trouble working together with the “white” folks (second, third, and fourth generation Irish, German, and Polish) and the growing Latino population because of stories one hears–and that, unfortunately, are true–about race relations in some other nearby neighborhoods.

Happily, this turned out not to be the case. The core Latino population was very homogenous, having all come from a specific town in Mexico 40 to 50 years ago (and they still return their to have their babies baptised). Because so many of the residents were Catholic (Latinos, Irish, German, and Polish), in this case, the very strong Catholic church in the area had been an integrating factor. Thus, I had no trouble working with all of the long-term residents, regardless of ethnicity, as a group.

But what I found especially heartening was the attitude of the long-term residents (“white” and Latino), toward the influx of newly arrived Latinos to the neighborhood. Although there was some reticence on their part (I expect at least some may have been undocumented), the attitude of the long-term residents toward them was inclusive, because, as I was told by a number of older “white” folks, “We all come from immigrants here.”

Of course, other neighborhoods are a lot less magnanimous and can border on hostile to violent, and I am frequently told that, even if “others,” whether African-American, Latino, Asian, or poor whites live right next to a contaminated site, that I shouldn’t “go out of my way to include them.” Often, these “others” are villified by otherwise “respectable” people as having criminal tendencies, loose morals(!!!), and intellects that wouldn’t allow them to understand technical information (my specialty is explaining such information so I can get their input). In rural areas, one of the groups that is often on the outs, regardless of race or ethnicity, are mobile home park dwellers (because status in rural areas is still often derived from land ownership).

An area of study of great interest to me (and to which I have, happily contributed), involves analyzing the political, social, and economic dynamics in communities and neighborhoods so that we can identify potential “out” groups and come up with ways of including them in dialogues about environmental issues and decision making. The U.S. EPA has a lot of interesting documents on initiatives in Environmental Justice that involve ensuring that people aren’t excluded from decisions that affect them–or excluded even from recieving information. Although it is an uphill–and sometimes vertical–battle in some communities, in others, the process of understanding various groups and how they are — or are not — included in the social, political, and economic structures and systems within a community can set the stage for at least some of these folks to come together and stop viewing those outside their demographic group as some, dangerous “other.”

I don’t know that it is possible to do anything about some dyed-in-the-wool racists, but I do know that when communities establish inclusive systems for sharing decision-making, much of the negative “them” and “us” thinking goes away. The trick, of course, is how to establish inclusive systems in communities that have never experienced such things and/or are run by powerful interests who prefer to repress others. In my case, I am often functioning under statutory obligations to involve EVERYONE in the community, and I “dumb blonde” it, and press ahead (of course, I don’t live there — which points up that sometimes, outside facilitators can get away with much more in repressive communities and start the ball rolling).

If you check SPLC’s Publications, they have at least one excellent multi-case study on building collaborative communities that I highly recommend.

Generationally speaking, we are moving toward a much more diverse society, although the threat of racist nuts, seeking to take advantage of economic issues or trump up fake cases of stolen advantage or violence against “whites” still could constitute a considerable threat to civil society. In the last few years (and months, especially), we have seen a lot of slippage in women’s reproductive rights and even their ability to speak out and be heard on such issues. I know longer believe that the return to extreme and violent racism is impossible, although I hope that we can keep this from ever happening, for all of our sakes.

Sorry for the long post. Will keep them to no more than three cogent paragraphs in the future (did I already promise this? — Oops.).

Reynardine –

I was wondering if someone would pick up on the whole Cheddar Cheese thing. I’m going to go out on a limb and declare that, absolutely, the essence of Grampa Chompers and the other cannibals that no doubt still inhabits the caves where they age the stuff helps give that “zing” to sharp cheddar.

Although I don’t live in Wisconsin, land of the Cheeseheads or Cheddarheads, as we here in Illinois affectionately call them (they call us F**ing Illinois Bastards), having visited some cheese factories there (and for some reason, it seems like every time I do an environmental investigation or communication project there, it involves meeting with someone at “the old cheese factory,” invariably a stone building with weird springhouse basement structures appended or nearby), I am pretty confident that they are using some weird earth essence to flavor it there, too.

I haven’t met any cannibals in Wisconsin (yet) that I know of, but it wouldn’t surprise me if a few reside in the upper northern reaches of the state where the Wendigos still roam. Please understand that I respect and admire Wisconsin and its cheeseheads and Wendigos, and I mean these comments in only the nicest possible way!

CoralSea, thanks for the post. Interesting info, even more interesting job.

Personally I have had to moderate a few disagreements in the Navy, and I’ve found that if you can link two opposing sides to a common enemy, that can work in getting them to work together, for a while anyway.

Christians and Muslims may have a different God (one Triune, one Singular) but they both have the same Devil – for the most part.

People will fight together when it comes to avoiding a common extinction, unfortunately, it has to come to that in most cases.

Unless you can make them both rich. Then green becomes the most important color.

Joseph –

In my work, I’m not usually dealing with “enemies” per se, but I understand what you mean in terms of helping them focus on a common goal. A lot of the utility of getting people to work together–or at least understand where each party is coming from–is that they do begin to gain some insights into what the other parties are dealing with. When I work with corporate clients, they often don’t see the neighbors of a contaminated site or a manufacturing facility as people as much as they see them as potential complainers. When I convey what these neighbors are concerned about (e.g., contaminated drinking water) or what they are experiencing (e.g., lots of truck traffic), my corporate clients begin to understand how they can work with them. Likewise, when I can answer the neighbors’ questions about how drinking water is being protected, how manufacturing is regulated, etc. it can form a basis for a substantive dialogue and, often, special accommodations from the client.

I am a strong believer in process. If you can establish positive, inclusive procedures for addressing problems (and are able to frame the problems as applicable to everyone — you are definitely right about that) this can create a basis for on-going, durable decision-making that creates the least amount of burden on any one party.

Behavior is situational — meaning, that in most cases (okay — there are some people who are so lacking in empathy, so sociopathic, or so focused on certain negative beliefs that little or nothing will moderate their beliefs), when people have a place at the decision-making table, they become more interested in and committed to solving problems rather than screaming. It is no accident that in communities that are repressive and run by powerful and punitive bosses or in-groups are those most likely to also be marked by lawsuits, vocal demonstrations, and other sometimes “negative” behaviors because these actions are the only avenue open to people who are otherwise shut out of the power structure. It is really depressing to work in communities like this.

Unfortunately, the political climate at the federal and state levels (at least in some states) is extreme, punitive, devisive, and nasty. I know that I worry that this type of devisive behavior has influenced the way people are also treating each other in business and generally. As a rule, nastiness begets more nastiness until someone steps up and either smacks them down (not always the best solution) or offers a template of behavior that holds the promise of being more productive.

Thank you again.

Is there a copy of the essay this article speaks about?

Type Dr. Michael Hill essay, you’ll pull up a few. There is also a few on his website League of the South.

Coral Sea,

Maybe no actual cannibals in Wisconsin, but some fairly gruesome goings-on, about which my sister and I are redrafting our novel.

Rey, that’s the second time you’ve mentioned your novel. Have you published previously? Because I’d love to check out any earlier work!

Rey, regarding actual cannibals in Wisconsin, see Ed Gein and Jeffrey Dahmer.

According to the League of the South, they were “naturally superior” serial killers/cannibals thanks to being white.

Different novel. For sample, see if your library system has “Latin Blues”, by Joe Sanchez and Mo Dhania.

Erika:

Drat! How could I forget! And didn’t Dahmer even have recipes?…

That’s another point to make. They can point their fingers at black neighborhoods all day long and say crime and violence, violence and crime. But it will take a long time before you rack up 5 to 10 deaths in my neighborhood, and they will be due to a disagreement of some sort.

You have scores of good ol’ American made serial killers (who are white) that will rack up a much larger death toll, for no reason at all.

Yeah, well, just try meeting some guy at an abandoned cheese factory in the middle of rural Wisconsin to ask him if I can sample the groundwater at his house and NOT think about Ed Gien (Gein? Goin? — the guy that used to skin people and dance around in their skins and I believe he ate them, too, and gave some of the meat to neighbors).

At least now that I am heading into middle age, I am not nearly the tasty morsel I used to be, which will hopefully keep me safe from the cannibals. Or, perhaps if I ever do confront one, those prehistoric Cheddar Man genes will kick in and I’ll the cannibal, first.

This thread has become strange — but frankly, no stranger than the White Supremists.

Erika: I don’t recall saying anything about white supremacy. I was comparing the habitibility of Detroit, Michigan, once a major center of the auto industry and largely black to that of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, once a major center of the steel industry and largely white. Sorry about the mispelling, but I think any rational person what understand what I meant. You should at least make an attempt to understand what is being said before flinging insults around. Tell me the truth, which city would you rather live in?

Another misspelling. I should start using spellcheck.

Ruslan

Yes a thought experiment. Do you often find it necessary to use language like that in a disagreement? You might want to watch that, especially in an in-person disagreement. As explained to Erika (see above) the first comparison was between Detroit and Pittsburgh. I was comparing the habitibility of Detroit, Michigan, once a major center of the auto industry and largely black to that of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, once a major center of the steel industry and largely white. Yes, I misspelled Pittsburgh, sorry about that. Detroit and Pittsburgh were not such different places back in the fifties, though they are very different now, don’t you think?

“Perhaps we’d all be better off if we just let the foul-mouthed professor get his wish and secede from the country he hates.”

Perhaps. I mean really, you hate these people anyway and arguably have no nationalistic bond of any kind with them, so what is supposed to keep ‘the union’ together? Why not just let it dissolve?

Anybody ever notice how literal-minded and humorless people like Cugel are?…

Cugel, your argument is extremely silly to anyone who understands the economic and social history of the United States.

Its also quite telling that you picked the 1950s (when Pittsburgh was so polluted in that era that it was often pitch black at noon) – conveniently picking right when the “white flight” to the suburbs (who were often illegally closed to blacks through restrictive covenants, redlining, intimidation, and other tactics) was starting.

Matt, feel free to move to the new Republic[an] of Teabagistan where Michelle Bachmann can be President and Michael Hill can be Secretary of State.

I would feel sorry for the intelligent people in the states which are selected to form the new Republic[an] of Teabagistan because they will be forced to move to remain in the United States of America – but think of how much nicer it will be in the U.S.

Erika — nice posts. But is it really going to be Teabagistan? Or will be be Teabaggia, or the easier to spell (and that is likely to be an issue, considering the inhabitants) Teabagland, or just Tland? Also, I really hope that maybe some allowances can be made to make New Orleans a “free city,” you know, like Hong Kong was.

Coral Sea, remember what happened to the “free cities” of Memel and Danzig. However, I suggest the new Republic(an) be called Trinity and Teabago.

By the way, I remember those Pittsburgh smogs. There was always an argument about whether theirs was better than London’s. As for what happened to Detroit, it’s called offshoring the auto industry.

I suspect that the Republic[an] of Teabagistan would clearly not want New Orleans and the entire State of Louisiana is likely too French for their tastes.

I also suspect that the plains states might be a more likely location for Teabagistan than the South. Think about Kansas.

“Yes a thought experiment. Do you often find it necessary to use language like that in a disagreement? You might want to watch that, especially in an in-person disagreement.”

Next time don’t bother trying to conceal your internet tough guy threats. Just be open about it. I’ll gladly explain why your idea is idiotic.

“As explained to Erika (see above) the first comparison was between Detroit and Pittsburgh. I was comparing the habitibility of Detroit, Michigan, once a major center of the auto industry and largely black to that of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, once a major center of the steel industry and largely white. Yes, I misspelled Pittsburgh, sorry about that. Detroit and Pittsburgh were not such different places back in the fifties, though they are very different now, don’t you think?”

Yes and your brilliant mind, which I’m sure carefully analyzed all the relevant historical data from both cities, came up with the brilliant conclusion that Detroit’s problems are due to the residents being black. This is why I called your thought experiment idiotic. It was just as stupid as when you compared socialist nations to capitalist nations, because virtually every nation which ever had a nominally socialist government was already underdeveloped and backward when they had their respective revolutions. Those that were industrialized previously were seriously devastated by the worst war in human history.

But hey, we could just use YOUR logic and conclude that there must be some inherent inferiority among some Germans, Russians, Poles, Czechs, etc. It’s the same thing.

Trinity and Teabago definitely works. But something must be done to rescue New Orleans if the T & T splits from the Union. We can’t allow its wonderful diversity and daubachery to fall victim to the laws that T & T would no doubt pass.

“Matt, feel free to move to the new Republic[an] of Teabagistan where Michelle Bachmann can be President and Michael Hill can be Secretary of State.”

But that’s just it…I couldn’t move there even if I wanted to and neither could anyone else, because it is not allowed to exist. Why? Doesn’t it seem odd that two groups of people who hate each other are forced by nationalist doctrine to remain in the same political unit?

“I would feel sorry for the intelligent people in the states which are selected to form the new Republic[an] of Teabagistan because they will be forced to move to remain in the United States of America – but think of how much nicer it will be in the U.S.”

So you agree…Secession should not only be allowed, but encouraged? The differences between the stupid teabaggers and wise rational types like yourself are simply too large and cannot be bridged. This seems obvious enough to myself, but the official position of the US government is that None Shall Ever Leave. They say good fences make good neighbors…maybe they’re right?

Matt, I suspect it is too large to be bridged. I suspect the offspring of you and a human female would be sterile.

cugel, you can try to make sense out of your arguments bro, but can you explain the black migration and subsequent success of cities like Atlanta; Tulsa; Jacksonville, FL; Columbus, the list goes on? Sure those cities, like all citis, have dangerous neighborhoods, but how does that compare to the POSITIVE economic impact that young business oriented Black professionals bring to their community?

Compton and South Central are dangerous neighborhoods, as was mine. But a neighborhood does not a city make sir. Los Angeles is much bigger than any bad neighborhood that it has.

Also, if you did a bit more research, I do believe you would find a number of “white” neighborhoods that can compete with Compton or Watts on any day of the week.

But tell the truth. You get nervous in a black neighborhood don’t ya? I bet you’re like a chicken in a chicken coop.

Don’t you realize, I’d get hurt before you would. They’d think you’re a cop. If I dropped you in the middle of 5th Ward in Houston you wouldn’t get touched.

But let me get dropped in the middle of a white ghetto, like Southie in Boston, or Patterson, New Jeresy (where a half Irish half-Italian buddy of mine in the Navy grew up) and we’ll see what happens to me – and I look damn near white. (big smile)

“feel free to move to the new Republic[an] of Teabagistan where Michelle Bachmann can be President and Michael Hill can be Secretary of State.”

Erika, this proves how little knee-jerk leftists understand about the right. Folks like Hill are non-interventionist on foreign policy. Bachmann, a mainstream “conservative,” is a gung-ho interventionist. They would not get along in the same administration, especially not with Hill as Sec. of State. Next time, please try to educate yourself before you spout off. If you need me to explain to you what a non-interventionist is, I will be glad to do so.

Actually, Mr. Brainard, it sounds like what you’re saying is that the far right can only function as an opposition party, and therefore their only choice is to stay one and screw things up for the rest of the country. In fact, the history of the Confederacy supports this hypothesis.

What I’m saying Mr. Reynardine is very clear. Erika doesn’t know what she is talking about.

Actually, it appears to me that she has said that if the (dis)Loyal Opposition think they know how to run a country, let them try to run one. I myself don’t regard the experiment as prudent, especially since I live in Florida and have no desire to be under the jurisdiction of Trinity and Teabago, but I believe she was quite clear about what she was propsing.

“You have scores of good ol’ American made serial killers (who are white) that will rack up a much larger death toll, for no reason at all.”

Yet another cliche devoid of any thought or research. You may want to check out (if you have any intellectual curiosity at all) Justin Cottrell’s new book, Rise of the Black Serial Killer which demonstrates that serial killers today are overwhelmingly black men (See John Muhammed and Lee Malvo as prominent examples).

“Actually, it appears to me that she has said that if the (dis)Loyal Opposition think they know how to run a country, let them try to run one.”

But of course this is disingenuous…the Federal Government will simply destroy any attempt to secede from the US. You seem to agree with me that the differences between the red and the blue team are intractable, and even go further and say that it is not merely disagreement but a struggle of good vs evil. If this is the case, then separation eliminates that struggle, so why can’t it happen?

Matt, the federal government wouldn’t have to destroy Teabagistan because Teabagistan if it existed would destroy itself. In fact, the death of Teabagistan would pretty much take place as soon as perspective Teabaginis would learn that joining Teabagistan would mean the elimination of their Social Security and Medicare benefits, the removal of any workplace safety laws, the elimination of any protections against fraudulent, counterfeit, and unsafe food and drugs, the elimination of the minimum wage, the removal of all public schools, elimination of enviromental protections, and draconian and intrusive laws regulating personal behavior. Not to mention the Teabaginis would not longer have the protection of the United States military.

Left on its on, Teabagistan would collaspe quickly even assuming it got off the ground. There would be no reason for the United States to act to destroy Teabagistan – simply put, if the U.S. carved out a portion of the United States for the League of the South to operate as the new Confederacy the League of the South wouldn’t know what to do – they know that they would be begging to rejoin the country within years, if not weeks once the inadequacy of their preferred system of non-government where the government intrudes constantly in people’s personal life but gives free reign to corporations.

And Matt, if you really wanted to you could move to China – they pretty much have the same type of government that Teabagistan would have.

Ned, the fact that you apparently think that Michelle Bachmann is “mainstream” says all we need to know about you.

Erika, I’m not at all bothered by your opinions regarding me, but I’m honestly interested in your answer to my question.
Ruslan, I did not issue any threats to you, why do you think I did?
Joseph, your response was the most interesting (and even tempered!), but your speculations about how I would react if dropped into a black neighborhood are a bit off base. I have moved many times for job related reasons and have in the past (and at present) worked in cities that are almost entirely black. In my current place of work most of my coworkers are black. I can tell you that I have never had any serious problems in these cities or any other city. There is no reason why anyone who keeps their wits about them…always…, should. Also I have the advantage of an NYC upbringing where you early learn to size up a neighborhood and act, and react, accordingly.

Most assuredly, Cugel, you said, over a reasonably phrased argument which Ruslan stated to you, that he would not speak so to your face, quite as if he had instead called you the kind of person who was likely to be arrested while on the lam(b). He had said nothing to you at that point which would justify that kind of bellicose response, and it therefore gave the impression of truculence arising out of sheer bravado. Now, I confused you momentarily with another such person on another thread, but I can’t rule out that you are the same person pretending to be a horde of “outraged citizens”. I can’t trace your IP addresses, but I can, with some effort I don’t care to expend at this moment, tell if writing samples came from the same or different writers. Directly this sort of thing becomes too bothersome or too personally threatening to anyone here, I’ll do it. Govern yoursel(ves) accordingly.

cugel, my answer would be neither. both are way too cold and too large for my tastes.

ask a stupid question, get a stupid answer.

Erika — can we not think about Kansas. I already have a migraine…

not to mention the fact that I’m not poor – that means I can afford to pay for a safe environment no matter where I live.

hence why your question is not a legitimate question.

incidentially, my office is located in between a very expensive and very white residential area and a very nice shopping center located in the suburbs – its been broken into twice.

FYI — as someone who works in all manner of places — and I do mean “works,” as in, gets out and talks to people, often in their homes, I am always careful wherever I go, but the only time I have ever been physically menaced was by some nut in an upper-middle-class area. (Proving only that one can find psychos anywhere.)

I have the advantage of being “that environmental lady” who helps address environmental problems like contamination, which means that I often get a “free pass,” even in very tough neighborhoods. I end up fielding questions from people with names like “Mousy” and “Clepto” and we bond.

As Joseph said, one can find “bad” neighborhoods anywhere. According to sociological studies, the “criminal element” in most “bad” neighborhood often boils down to a handful of people, often families, who perpetrate most of the crime. In other words, most of the people who live in “crime-ridden” areas are as up-standing or possibly more upstanding than your average middle or upper-middle class people. This is what the literature says, and it has thus far (over my 25 years of field work) been my experience.

Gangs are another serious issue that can really destroy neighborhoods. But with the exception of some of the really hard core guys, most of these boys and young men (and the occasional young women I’ve met), if I get to know them at all well, they end up speaking rather sheepishly and wisfully about how the gang was pretty much the only thing available to them.

The fact that so many people, of whatever race or ethnicity, work so hard and overall display such honesty, integrity, and compassion, despite the obstacles that many of them face simply providing for themselves and their children is a testament to the human spirit.

Matt et. al. can choose to focus on the slice of society that is crap, or they can rejoice in what many people accomplish, even against significant odds. This isn’t the view of some be-dazzled liberal “white-light-we-are-all-one” woman. This is the view of someone who actually has to help solve difficult problems.

“joining Teabagistan would mean the elimination of their Social Security and Medicare benefits, the removal of any workplace safety laws, the elimination of any protections against fraudulent, counterfeit, and unsafe food and drugs, the elimination of the minimum wage, the removal of all public schools, elimination of enviromental protections, and draconian and intrusive laws regulating personal behavior. Not to mention the Teabaginis would not longer have the protection of the United States military.”

You mean all those programs that are nowhere authorized in the Constitution. All those things are possible at the state and local level, but the Constitution does not authorize them at the Federal level. (Counterfeiting, btw, is one of only three federal crimes actually mentioned in the Constitution.) That aside, aren’t we always told that the money in SS belongs to the person? Therefore, rightfully the money would follow the person when he left the Union.

Also, what use would we have for the US Military if we were no longer trying to police the world? What country would invade the well-armed South?

“Ned, the fact that you apparently think that Michelle Bachmann is “mainstream” says all we need to know about you.”

I said Bachmann was a mainstream “conservative,” meaning she is a part of “mainstream” conservatism (GOP, FOX News, etc.) which in many respects is not conservative in the real sense of that word. Which is why I put conservative in quotes. (Such as thinking America must police the world.) Aren’t conservative like Hill, a parochial Southerner, often criticized by the SPLC for being anti-globalist/anti-internationalist?

Also, Hill style conservatives are not corporatists. Again, you need to study up on the vagaries of the right. You clearly lack nuance on the subject.

Ned, times change, and the country changes with it. It would be stupid to try to keep the US the same as it was in the late 18th century. Semi-auto military rifles aren’t mention in the constitution; I guess your 2nd Amendment rights must limit you to black powder muskets then.

Only a fool attributes mystical, super-human powers to a group of men from the 18th century. They themselves(particularly Thomas Paine and Jefferson) found the idea ridiculous.

Cugel, I didn’t not accuse you of making threats, but rather Internet Tough Guy statements. There is a difference. Anyway, the problem was the comparison you made, which clearly does not take into account a number of historical, sociological, and economic factors.

I retract my statement, respectively, however, I did not imply that they do not exist at all. In the future, to avoid these types of conflicts, I will “stay on task”. Out of the spirit of debate and fairness, the following is an unofficial list of black (or otherwise considdered black) serial killers:

Howard Arthur Allen. Indianapolis. 3 or more victims.

Jake Bird. Tacoma, Washington. Two in the Tacoma area in the 1940s and a total of 44 nationwide.

Terry A. Blair. Kansas City area. 8 victims. 2003-4.

Arthur Bomar. Philadelphia and Nevada. 4 or 5 victims.

Daniel Andrew Bowler. Richmond, Virginia. 3 victims.

Eugene Britt. Gary, Indiana. 10 or more victims.

Maurice Byrd. St. Louis area. 20 victims.

Reginald and Jonathan Carr. Wichita, Kansas. 5 victims.

Jarvis Catoe. New York City. 13 victims. 1941-42.

Leonard Christopher. Philadelpha. 7 victims. 1980s.

Alton Coleman. Midwestern USA. 8 victims.

Andre Crawford. Southside Chicago. 10 victims.

Paul Durousseau. Jacksonville, Florida; Georgia. 6 victims, two of which were pregnant women.

Lorenzo Fayne. East St. Louis, Illinois. 5 victims, all children.

Kendall Francois. Poughkeepsie, New York and environs. 8 victims, all women.

Carlton Gary. Columbus, Georgia. 3 victims.

Lorenzo J. Gilyard. Kansas City, Missouri. 12 victims, all women.(May be Missouri’s worst serial killer ever, according to the Kansas City Star.)

Mark Goudeau. Valley of the Sun, Arizona. “Baseline Killer.” 9 kills, along with 15 sexual assaults and 11 kidnappings during his year-long spree.

Harrison Graham. North Philadelphia city. 7 victims, possibly more.

Vaughn Greenwood. Louisiana. 11 victims.

Kevin and Reginald Haley. Los Angeles. 8 victims. 1979-84.

I would add that if we are speaking of the demographics of serial killers, I know of only two in the United States who were female: Bell Gunness and Aileen Wuornos. This by no means implies men are inherently murderous. It does mean that generalizing from individual pathological specimens to a whole demographic is fallacious, unjust, and dangerous.

“Ned, times change, and the country changes with it. It would be stupid to try to keep the US the same as it was in the late 18th century.”

This is why we have the amendment process. To just ignore the Constitution when it is not convenient to progressive aims is tyranny.

I was very upset when I heard about the amnesty that President Obama gave to the immigrants. The someone reminded me about the Emancipation Proclamation. And while I am not likening immigration, illegal or legal, to slavery, I don’t remember President Lincoln asking Congress, and I don’t remember it being a very popular decision back then. I can only wonder how this will look 150 years from now.

I’m not mad at him.

CORRECTION: “Then someone…” & “I don’t remember President Lincoln asking Congress for permission…”

I can’t figure out where he got the idea that blacks had a secure existence under slavery here….Imagine being forced to work from sun up to sun down and not knowing when you’re going to get a severe whipping or beating at any moment.

Ned, you’re honestly recommending that every single time a law is passed in this country, it should consist of a constitutional amendment?

Have you no idea how America works? Or are you just that stupid?

The US Constitution is the supreme law of the land. But just because something isn’t mentioned in its body does not mean it is up to the states to decide. Since you’re such a Con-law ‘expert,’ perhaps you might wish to re-acquaint yourself with the ‘supremacy clause.’

Have fun, Mr Flubber.

This is for Rodney, can’t we all just get along? Since science is sure all of our ancestors came out of Africa it follows we are all Africans to some percentage.

Mark Potok- Go to the library & read up on the Egyptian,Ethiopian civilizations, who I remind you were the first civilations. And who were these people at that time. They were BLACK Africans, now mix with Arabs & Europeans. You, like the rest of the world have been lied to. Don’t believe it, study world history.

Parker, what are you going on about? “Black Africans” is as dumb an idea as “white Europeans” or “yellow Asians”. These tribes and nations were all distinguishable until they came (or were dragged or driven) over here and got tossed in the slushpot.

Ned, you are not thinking of commonlaw jurisprudence, which is shaped by the very process you so despise. You are thinking of Civil Code jurisdictions, where every law has to be specifically written out. They have overthrows and new Constitutions and Codes written every couplethree decades. The UK, the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand- not so much.

Michael, and your point is? The FIRST human civilizations were on the Indus River and in the Fertile Crescent between the Tigris and Euphrates. The African civilizations came significantly later.

“Ned, you’re honestly recommending that every single time a law is passed in this country, it should consist of a constitutional amendment?

Have you no idea how America works? Or are you just that stupid?”

Aron, stop hyperventilating. You don’t need an amendment for every law. You need an amendment for everything the Federal Government wants to do that is not an authorized function of the Federal Government (primarily Article 1 Section 8).This is called “Enumerated Powers” doctrine. It was conceded by both the Federalists and the Antifederalists, and was codified in the 10th Amendment. Enumerated Powers is a fundamental aspect of originalism which is the constitutional interpretive schema utilized by conservatives. The problem is most “conservatives” are selective originalists. Conservatives like Hill are not, although I suspect Hill prefers the Articles of Confederation.

“Ned, you are not thinking of commonlaw jurisprudence, which is shaped by the very process you so despise. You are thinking of Civil Code jurisdictions, where every law has to be specifically written out. They have overthrows and new Constitutions and Codes written every couplethree decades. The UK, the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand- not so much.”

Reynardine, you are confusing the matter unnecessarily. I’m thinking of the doctrines of enumerated powers and original intent with regard to how to understand and interpret the Constitution. See my reply to Aron above. I’m not thinking primarily of laws so much as I am powers and programs, although the former comes with the latter. These concepts are commonplace on the right although, unfortunately, inconsistently applied. That they seem to astound and flabbergast leftists is more proof of my original contention – that the left doesn’t understand the right.

No, Brainerd. You’re the one who is addled. That is all.

Ned, the problem is you DON’T represent the Right. You represent an ultra-right fringe which makes other fringes look tame in comparison.

I’m well aware of enumerated powers. I’m also well aware of the seminal case People v. CSA, which pretty much settle the supremacy clause once and for all. If you dislike what your government is doing, you have every right to demand redress. But the Federal always trumps the State. Always.

Have a nice day.

Thanks to Mark Potok for the laugh this afternoon!

One of the big reasons I come on here regularly is to see Aron, Rey, and the rest smack down the trolls. Wish I had your eloquence and coolheadedness! Thanks for the entertainment.

Some one needs to wake him up with the facts that science says otherwise. How can he teach at any credible institution of learning?

Reynardine

You addressed yourself to me so I will address myself to you.

In my few posts here I have not been disrespectful to anyone. My observations (and these are observations that anyone who has their eyes open and done a little traveling will see for themselves) stirred up some real hostility. Now, I enjoy a little spirited discussion on websites with people who have different views than I do – its a good way to learn interesting things…but that is not what I see here. Note Ruslan’s first response to my observation. My telling him that he should is not do that is not about being an internet tough guy (whatever that is), but a gentle reminder that civilized people just do not talk that way, not unless they are, for some reason of their own, actually courting trouble.

Now on to the matter of tracing internet addresses or using software to analyze my few posts. Really? Are you that fearful of opposing opinions? Set your mind at rest. Under no conditions could I be bothered either to issue threats, or post under different names.

The last time I have seen such levels of hostility was when I posted a few commonplace observations about nature on an anti-evolution website. Even there, there was no silly name calling. There was some interesting discussion.There was no insinuation that I might be secretly posting under multiple names.

“You’re the one who is addled.”

Who said anything about addled? I said you were confusing things unnecessarily and that your cohorts don’t understand the right. Are you at all familiar with the concepts of enumerated powers and original intent? The 10th Amendment?

“That is all.”

In other words, I’m arguing circles around you, and you are withdrawing from the debate.

No, Ned, you are wasting my time with blather, and I have better things to do.

Cugel, I specifically said I was not using softwear of any kind. I said that I am capable of analyzing linguistic samples, using, among other tools, Warriner diagrams, to determine the likelihood of samples coming from the same author or different ones. And since Ruslan said nothing to you that would elicit that kind of truculent response from a reasonable person, I assume you are showing off your macho. And no, I don’t think you’d have the nerve to do it in person.

I caution you, however, that if you do ever make a serious threat over the Internet, you are likely to be traced, and not by me.

Ned, when you make an argument and then refer to people to the very thing which refutes your argument it is not a very good argument.

See, Article I, Section 8 gives Congress the power to regulate interstate and international commerce and the power to pass laws that are “necessary and proper” for the execution of any enumerated power. Now even using the most restrictive view of commerce power – a view that even Justice Scalia has called extreme and nutty – that of Justice Clarence Thomas, the commerce power is extremely broad. Nobody mainstream would seriously argue that anything (other than the public schools) that I listed is not within the power of Congress (Social Security and Medicare are based upon the taxation power). And even Clarence Thomas would uphold those regulations simply because he has acknowledged that Congress can violate goods in commerce (even if he is against the substantial effects test – and yes, Justice Scalia really did call him a “nut” for believing that).

cugel, you asked a riduculous question – which is based upon racial prejudice – and then got all huffy because people pointed out why it was illegitimate to ask what you did rather than answering it.

oh and Ned, sweetie, read the various opinions in U.S. v. Lopez which will cover just about any basis you might have regarding the power to regulate interstate commerce. Also note that even in striking down the Guns Free Schools Act, the majority makes it clear that the power to regulate interstate commerce is extraordinarily broad and covers most commercial activities.

Michael – you may be interested to know that Egypt was only ruled by Nubians for on a few centuries in it’s entire existence. The majority of Pharoahs were not Nubians, as black people were called in that time period in that region, and their land was called Kush. And the Egyptians didn’t really mix with the Nubians. They were ethnically different, and not “forced to intermarry” back then.

you know CoralSea that when I suggested to think Kansas as the center of Teabagistan, I didn’t even realize how appropriate it was. Kansas politics took such a turn for the weird thanks to the Koch brothers of Witchita – they of course have taken their act national by being teh main financial backers of the Tea Party.

Erika — Regrettably, Kansas would make a great center for Teabagistan (or Trinity and Teabago). Between the assaults on women’s reproductive health, assaults on doing anything about assauts — I believe it is Topeka that recently adopted a cost-cutting measure for the police department by suspending responses to domestic violence calls; they probably decided that it was more efficient to allow the more effective domestic violence incident to convert into homicides–and a long-standing issue with the teaching of evolution in public schools that goes back at least a decade (well before the teaparty arose, uh, was funded by the Kochs), they are definitely in the running as one of the most embarrassing states in the union. And all of that is without considering the Westboro Baptist Church, which, to be fair, probably doesn’t have a lot of fans in the teaparty because of the appalling way they behave at the funerals of soldiers.

So yes — Kansas would work. I simply suggested that we not think about them because some of the shenanigans that have gone on there would make Santa Claus vomit with rage (to quote a line from The Simpsons.)

I guess we can add to the usual Virginia prayer: “Thank God for Mississippi and Kansas to make us look not as bad by comparison”

although our crazy Bible thumping neo-Confederate Attorney General (who is actually from New Jersey!) is trying his best (especially since he’s likely to run for Governor) to change it.

Well, Erika, now that I know where you live, it’s clear how you knew of those interesting municipalities, and that you do have access to the sea shore once you get your Peach Bottom bikini. I am sure you will look fetching in it, but since my tastes inclined me elsewhere even when I was young, I will not ask you to Kissimee.

LMAO@ all the idiots talking about ‘teabagistan’.

You are the failures who couldn’t pass a 6th grade economics class and think medicare is a solvent program.

If we had to get rid of the weakest links in this county then the dipshits on this site would among the first to go.