Hatewatch Tweets
Hatewatch is managed by the staff of the Intelligence Report, an investigative magazine published by the Alabama-based civil rights group Southern Poverty Law Center.
Wisconsin Temple Attack: Authorities Chose to Look the Other Way
Editor’s Note: This essay by Hatewatch Editor Mark Potok was originally posted Sunday night in The New York Times online opinion section as part of a “Room for Debate” feature that also included articles from four other contributors. The essays were meant to address the question, “Is the Threat From Hate Groups Overlooked?”
One of the most troubling aspects of the mass murder of Sikhs near Milwaukee last week is that the man who carried it out was well known to groups like the Southern Poverty Law Center that monitor the radical right. The shooter, Wade Michael Page, had long been a fixture on the white supremacist music scene and was associated with seriously violent skinhead groups like the Hammerskin Nation.
But the almost certain reality is that there was little that law enforcement officials or others could have done to foresee or forestall the racist attack. Page does not seem to have done anything to suggest that he was planning a slaughter, and his views, fully protected by the First Amendment, were no different from those of thousands of other angry white nationalists.
Still, the attack occurred in the context of a sharp rise in the number of hate groups and antigovernment “patriot” organizations, mostly spurred by the changing racial demographics of our country, which are personified in our first black president. Domestic, non-Muslim terrorism has been on the rise since Barack Obama took office in 2009. Given that reality, is there something more that law enforcement should be doing?
Under the Bush administration, the government focused heavily on Muslim terrorists, to the point that it was justly criticized for ignoring our own homegrown brand of terror. But that has changed in the last few years, with the F.B.I. issuing regular warnings about dangerous aspects of the radical right and law enforcement agencies regularly infiltrating groups that threaten violence.
But one deeply troubling problem remains. In 2009, a prescient report from the Department of Homeland Security warning of rising threats from various sectors of the extreme right was leaked. It immediately provoked a firestorm of criticism from the political right, which saw it as an attack on all conservatives. The criticism was utterly unjustified, but that didn’t prevent the secretary of homeland security, Janet Napolitano, from caving in and pulling it back in an act of craven political cowardice.
As The New York Times has reported, the Homeland Security team responsible for the report, charged with monitoring non-Islamic domestic terrorism, was essentially gutted after that, with most members leaving after enduring unjustified public criticism from their boss. Homeland Security now claims that the unit is fully functional, but the lead author of the 2009 report, Daryl Johnson — now a whistleblower — says that that’s not so.
Perhaps it’s finally time for Napolitano to take this problem seriously and rebuild and strengthen Homeland Security’s intelligence capabilities to face a clearly mounting threat. That might not have prevented the tragedy in Milwaukee, but it could very well save the lives of untold numbers of other Americans targeted by the racist right.
on August 13th, 2012 at 10:34 am
The problem is that the presstitute corps has bought into, and the law enforcement agencies and public been bullied into, acceting IOKIYARW- It’s OkayIf You’re Right Wing. Ril uhMericuns can do no wrong (at least until they do it). Suggesting they could is unuhMericun. They could terrorize the Dixie Chicks and vandalize wineshops with impunity, steal campaign signs and bellow down the slightest opposition wiith glassy eyes and bulging veins, and they could do it with the Lard on their side. And then…there was a black man in the Whiite House. Now, they’re capable of anything, and those inciting them are capable of saying anything…with impunity. I submit the macaroni is hitting the fan, and the red on it isn’t tomato paste.
on August 13th, 2012 at 10:59 am
I am glad that the N. Y. Times took the problem seriously enough to feature your Mark’s comments. The fact that the right wing pundits can complain about Islamic terrorism, admittedly still a problem, but ignore the violent actions within their own ranks is hypocritical. It is even more disturbing that they are so powerful that they can intimidate Janet Napolitano is frightening.
on August 13th, 2012 at 11:27 am
I’ll tell you what I’m afraid of. Left wingers getting tired of turing the other cheek. A buddy of mine at work is as left wing as you can get, but guess what? Him and his family, aunts, uncles, etc. are all buying ammo. These rightees need to realize an underappreciated fact. They’re not the only ones with guns. God forbid. And even more so. May people forbid. For all of the bad that it will do, people will start shooting back.
on August 13th, 2012 at 12:06 pm
Leslie
You wrote
—————————————————————————————————————————-
I am glad that the N. Y. Times took the problem seriously enough to feature your Mark’s comments. The fact that the right wing pundits can complain about Islamic terrorism, admittedly still a problem, but ignore the violent actions within their own ranks is hypocritical. It is even more disturbing that they are so powerful that they can intimidate Janet Napolitano is frightening.
—————————————————————————————————————————-
I agree. People in the United States really need to be concerned about far right, far more than Muslim fanatics.
http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/.....e-muslims/
on August 13th, 2012 at 12:29 pm
There’s a problem with this thesis. The authorities often get it wrong on who is a right wing extremist. For example, in the days after the Columbine shooting the media speculated the shooters were white supremacists. It turned out that Dylan Klebold was Jewish and had attend a Yeshiva school, and had no right wing connections.
After the Oklahoma City bombing again, the authorities and media told us (and continue to tell us) that Timothy McVeigh was a white supremacist.
McVeigh’s co-conspirator,Terry Nichols, was in an inter-racial marriage to a Filipino woman. Would any white supremacist pick as his chief confidant and conspirator someone in an an inter-racial marriage? And trust him? And tell him his secret plan? Highly unlikely. He had a copy of the Turner Diaries, but this does not prove he was a white supremacist. McVeigh had a collection of many books, including the Anarchist Cookbook, and was probably just collecting information for ideas. Most likely, McVeigh was an anarchist or radical libertarian.
Then there was the case of Richard Jewel at the 1992 Olympics in Atlanta. Jewel was falsely accused of a bombing and hounded by the media and authorities for months before being dismissed as a suspect. This simple man with few financial resources, had his entire life turned upside down and destroyed because of these false allegations.
on August 13th, 2012 at 1:16 pm
Annie, we should never have awarded you that pile of sawdust. Here it is, drooling out of your little flannel mouth again.
Folks, check out the latest Manboobs. We’ve rated a special subreddit wiith the MRA’s, devoted especially to hating us.
on August 13th, 2012 at 1:35 pm
Annie, didn’t you post this already and had it shot down? You make no sense. I’m so confused right now. I thought maybe Ruslan found all kind of holes in your arguments. You just cutting and pasting huh?
on August 13th, 2012 at 2:12 pm
Annie
Where did you get that information, in particular about McVeigh and Richard Jewel?
on August 13th, 2012 at 3:17 pm
Rey, what’s the site?
on August 13th, 2012 at 3:17 pm
A sharp rise in the number of anti-government groups clearly shows the government has become an oppressive tyranny. The only possible reason anti-government groups rise in popularity is due to continued government oppression. An organization that calls an anti-government group a hate group is an organization which enjoys the blessings of, and promotes the expansion of a tyrannical state.
on August 13th, 2012 at 3:17 pm
Jewel had no connection to either McVeigh or to Eric Rudolph, the real bomber. This is more of Annie’s sawdust.
on August 13th, 2012 at 3:49 pm
I must reluctantly give Annie some credit for bringing up the fact that the media often grasp for simplistic “labels” and often resist seeking to better understand some of the differences among “extremist” groups — or whether persons carried out violent actions are actually part of them or simply inspired by them.
The whole Richard Jewel affair was highly unfortunate and a cautionary tale regarding the limits of “profiling.” What is also unfortunate is that Eric Rudolph, who was an anti-abortion extremist, continues, more often than not, to be considered an isolated fanatic — at least among many in the “mainstream media,” who don’t want to offend the Religious Right. (This is my perception of it, at least. I haven’t studied that particular news coverage in depth).
I do believe that the rhetoric which, at this point in time is emanating primarily from the Right, is filled with images and allusions to violence, and that unstable people, who may be only on the periphery of hate groups, pick up. Are various politicians and talkshow hosts that use these types of violent image and speech at fault? Personally, I believe that they are — especially after we’ve seen several of these instances. At the very least, they sure as heck aren’t helping. Can they be held criminally liable? Unfortunately, no. What I do wish, however, is that the media would devote at least some attention to how hate speech and exhortations to violence can damage public discourse and, in some cases, give rise to heinous crimes.
I am appreciative of SPLC for explaining the underpinings and behavior of some of these groups, which would otherwise be incomprehensible to people who are mentally healthy. I think that they have particularly done a good job in working with law enforcement and spreading the word about the Sovereign Citizen movement. A number of older relatives of mine, who are still sympathetic to the “romance” of the “Confederacy,” and fairly blind to the fact that some of those who push “White Northern European Culture” are, in fact, often pushing a racist agenda (unless they are wearing KKK robes — then that are appalled by them), understand that the Sovereigns are bad news.
As it is, though, when the media willfully presents hate acts by white folks as “one-offs,” then the denser members of society can continue to view them this way–and tremble at the thought of dangerous muslims! Ridiculous!
on August 13th, 2012 at 4:53 pm
Reynardine — I agree that Jewel (and the real bomber — Eric Rudolph), the Columbine shooters, and McVeigh were not in cahoots. My post, which is under yours, points up that the media doesn’t tell enough of the story to understand the common threads that do connect many other violent actors.
on August 13th, 2012 at 5:02 pm
NWOslave — Your logic is faulty, sir. While it is true that anti-government groups can arise as a result of tyranny (various resistance groups in WWII among them), they can also rise out of stupidity, delusional thinking, as a result of manipulation by others who have a vested interest in undermining a legitimate government to get their own way, or for profit (think of some of the folks that promote Sovereign Citizen behaviors and cynically profit off of those who are taken in by them).
I believe that what we are seeing today in the way of the anti-government includes groups that fall under all four categories. Certainly, some are simply stupid, and have been swayed by “infotainment” talkshow hosts who say outrageous things to boost their ratings and their revenues. Then there are the delusional ones who believe that Agenda 21 is a plot to strip communities of power (judging by your identifier — NWOslave, you may fall into this one — or possibly the first or fourth). Then there are those who are provocatuers who are attempting to create disorder to further the goals of the puppetmasters who employ them. Last, there are, as I said, those who simply exploit the stupid and the gullible.
Any questions?
on August 13th, 2012 at 5:10 pm
Thank you to those who have responded positively to my previous post.
Timothy McVeigh did indeed have a copy of the Turner Diaries. That is true. But as I said, he had a collection of many books in his home library when his house was searched, including the Anarchist Cookbook, which is a left wing book. So my theory is he was just collecting information on how to construct a bomb from all underground sources and pieces of fiction.
More than anyone else, white supremacists hate other white people who are ‘racemixers’. They hate them more than Jews, Blacks, or any other ethnic group. There is no way Timothy McVeigh, if he were a white supremacist, would have chosen a racemixer as his chief confidant. Terry Nichols was in an interracial marriage to a Filipino woman. That is a fact. Don’t believe me? Look it up yourself.
There’s only one answer. Timothy McVeigh was not a white supremacist. What was he? I don’t know. Maybe he was an anarchist. Or just some lone nut. He was never connected as a member of any right wing group.
on August 13th, 2012 at 5:41 pm
The whining that we often endure when the extreme right get called out for their behavior reminds me of some of some of my more troublesome classmates in middle school, who often complained that they were unfairly singled out for discipline. “I saw Johnnie chewing gum the other day, butcha never said anything to him!”, they wailed. These kids seemed to think that our teachers had some sort of duty to discipline in a “round-robin” fashion, as if they should only have been scolded after all of their other classmates had had a “turn”.
To be sure, my teachers did single out certain students, but only after they had earned additional scrutiny due to repeated infractions. Unfortunately, most of these children didn’t seem to grasp the idea that the best way to avoid punishment was to quit breaking the rules. Looking back, I now realize that some of these students may have had mental illnesses or conditions like ADHD that were previously deemed to be chacter flaws, but that did not make it any easier to deal with their bullying and their continued disruptions.
But how do we “discipline” adults for engaging in hateful speech if that is a constitutionally protected right? I remain convinced that the media can play a key role in this regard, not so much by demonizing the haters, but by providing analysis and context when covering the different “sides” in a debate. In other words, instead of merely printing what people say, I would like to see these remarks followed by some supporting information to give readers an indication of whether or not the person being quoted was providing facts or an opinion. For example, after quoting someone as stating, “‘There’s no doubt that the President has a forged birth certificate,’” there is nothing biased or unfair about following that remark with, “The President’s long-form birth certificate is on file in the Office of the Registrar in Hawaii.”
As always, I applaud the SPLC for avoiding the wishy-washiness of the mainstream media in its reporting.
on August 14th, 2012 at 12:03 am
The guy in Aurora was a simple nut case. The college ignored his Shrink’s warning, his parents kept paying his credit cards and some store kept selling him enough ammo to supply the Talaban, and nobody said anything. He flew under the radar. This guy, on the other hand, was so prominent in NeoNazi society that some agency or other probably was watching him. Hindsight is 20 20, but they missed this one.
on August 14th, 2012 at 1:38 am
“A sharp rise in the number of anti-government groups clearly shows the government has become an oppressive tyranny. The only possible reason anti-government groups rise in popularity is due to continued government oppression.”
Wow, there’s some EXCELLENT critical thinking there!!! By that logic, the ONLY reason so many people are talking about The Jersey Shore is that it is a wonderful, well-written show.
on August 14th, 2012 at 7:04 am
NWOslave:
Anti-government groups rise because they don’t like the government. Not because the government is become more tyrranical.
Maybe you can expound on your hypothesis. EXACTLY how has the government become more tyrranical?
What can I NOT do today – that I could do yesterday???
If you can elaborate that for me. Which you probably won’t. Then maybe I can see your point.
Otherwise you are trying to justify nothing but a bunch of people who just really want to pick a fight.
on August 14th, 2012 at 7:10 am
I do you one better.
A sovereign lives behind me! He won’t fix his fence and it’s about to fall into my driveway.
He’s been cited numerous times and has several municipal liens on his property
When he dies his house is going to the City of Carrollton, if the HOA doesn’t sue him first.
He won’t keep his yard clean, he won’t fix his fence, he won’t keep the rats in his back yard from coming into mine.
When that fence falls, I am going to have to clean it up and put it out. Then I get to look at his hideous backyard.
He won’t listen to the city or to anyone for that matter. Our neighbor, is a minister, and he bought a gun just because he lives next door to this man!
How does that make sense and please tell me how our oppressive government is influencing this man to oppress his neighbors?
I tell you what, he better fix that fence. What’s a goon to a goblin?
on August 14th, 2012 at 9:16 am
Oh, my! Such great posts!
Joseph — my sympathies on your neighbor from Hell. Hopefully, the place won’t catch on fire or something and spread to your house!
Moderate Mike — I absolutely love your description of the irritating kids in middle school. I’m sure we can all relate — and it’s a wonderfully apt description.
Ruslan — you mean Jersey Shore isn’t a production based on excellence in writing?
Annie — I see your point about The Anarchists’ Cookbook, as the term “Anarchists” is often tied to the left. However, this book doesn’t automatically mean that one is ideologically “Left.” In fact, The Anarchist’s Cookbook has been standard fare for people on the “Right” as well as out-and-out kooks of any or no stripe for a long time. If you want to learn how to make a bomb, then The Anarchist’s Cookbook is the book for you — whether you are an anti-choice zealot who wants to blow up a clinic that provides abortion services or an Al Quaida operative. The end result (if you are successful) is death and destruction; the people who are caught in the crossfire are dead — no matter who built the bomb.
Also, I wouldn’t put too much stock in whether an extremist of some stripe had books that would be considered ideologically contradictory. Persons who are obsessed with ideology will often amass books and other materials that support their beliefs — but many will also possess materials from the “other” side as a form of “research.” Also, some of the folks who end up perpetrating acts of terror have often spent time “searching for the truth,” although their troubled minds end up taking them into some very dark places, which is sad for them, and both a wound and a loss to society (I say loss because if they had managed to go in a different direction, they might have had something positive to contribute to society rather than death and destruction).
on August 14th, 2012 at 9:22 am
Joseph: sue him for nuisance and keep a couple of cats: real ones, with teeth, claws, and muscles. If fixed, only females, because males lose their hunting instiincts.
My own property has gone so wild the chayotes are howling, because (a) have novel manuscript deadliine tomorrow; (b) it’s August, or, more properly, the sign of Leo. End of month, the cutdown starts; before that, the soil burns.
on August 14th, 2012 at 11:44 am
Annie, I gotta tell you ma’am. I think you’re logic is flawed in that, I agree that a white supremacist would not marry out of their race. But what is the definition of a “legal christian marriage” and in what context?
This man may not have been a white supremacist. But how do you category a mail order bride?
White supremacist’s want it to go back to the way it was – and that way it was – was that – a white man would take a black woman, native american woman, asian woman, mexican woman, the list goes on and on, poor white women whose families did not own land for that matter, and they would do whatever, whenever they wanted do.
It was a common practice for wealthy white men to make their debt holder’s wives “pay their debts” with sexual favors. There is no decency here.
Mail order bride just means “sex slave” to that culture and is not only looked upon with favor and envy by their “menfolk” but also not recognized by their women as an actual offense.
I think you need to realize that white men have been getting their sexual satisfaction from women of other races for a very long time. You may want to open your eyes. Or keep them closed, don’t matter to me.
on August 14th, 2012 at 11:59 am
I’ve also known people who whine about how the big bad government is taking away our freedoms… but when cornered and challenged, they either spout generalities or come up with half-cooked lies that are easier to disprove than it is to shoot fish in a barrel (forgive the sort-of mixed metaphors).
I’ve concluded that there are some people who just have to have an “enemy.” What ignorant, narrow, sad lives they must lead!
on August 14th, 2012 at 2:32 pm
@Joseph
You say, “But what is the definition of a “legal christian marriage” and in what context?”
Why didn’t you include, what is the legal definition of a Jewish, Muslim, Athiest, ect, marriage in your line of questioning? Clearly you show an irrational hatred of only Christianity. Why?
———–
You also say, “White supremacist’s want it to go back to the way it was – and that way it was – was that – a white man would take a black woman, native american woman, asian woman, mexican woman,”
Do you have any proof of this? Why not how native americans want to take a black woman, asian woman. Or perhaps the way blacks want to take a mexican or white woman?
———–
You go on to state how, “white” men are sex slavers. First off, the highest rate of prostitution is indigenous to non-white cultures to non-white men. Secondly, women who willingly, with full knowledge sell sex for money are not sex slaves. They are in fact the ones doing the exploitation. Thirdly, every study done to date shows that over 90% of prostitutes work for themselves with no pimp, They choose to on their own. Finally, over 50% of all prostitution are males for gay clients.
————–
Everything about your post shows hatred for all things Christian, white and male for no other reason than being Christian, white and male. For a site claiming to be watching out for hatred, every comment is unabashed hatred of all things white, Christian and male.
on August 14th, 2012 at 3:37 pm
Oh, look, we have us a real, typical Hammerhead this week! Not an original, at all.
NWO, we have already seen your list of talking points ad infinitem ad nauseum, which you right wing trolls pass from mouth to mouth without even bothering to wipe the spit off ‘em.
on August 14th, 2012 at 3:50 pm
Anyone who uses “NWOslave” as a moniker has metaphorically nailed his/her colours to the mast, pun intended.
on August 14th, 2012 at 4:22 pm
Joseph if you don’t mind I’d like to ghetto rip NWO, seeing as nobody got to it first…
@NWOslave
Joseph only questioned the definition for clarity, he didn’t offer any form of hatred. Attributing hatred to Joseph that isn’t there is a “poison the well” fallacy. You hope by attacking his character it will influence the discussion, but any fool can see there is no hatred there.
Second, we don’t need “proof” to see what we see with our own eyes every day. Joseph rightly observes that the status quo has changed from the days when whites had more privilege, and clearly the WN movement is all about turning back the hands of the clock to those days. The rhetoric is the same, and the beliefs are the same, but the world has changed. Open your eyes.
Third I don’t think Joseph was talking about prostitution per se. What he was talking about is the cultural and economic advantage that puts American white males in a position of social superiority over immigrant wives imported through an industry tailored to men who find it hard to relate to American women who will not tolerate misogynist attitudes. By hyperbole, he calls this system one of sexual slavery.
Finally, I see nowhere that Joseph said anything against Christians or Christianity. As a matter of fact I would be surprised if he did, because I don’t recall him making any kind of statement like that in the past. You are confusing social criticism of a system that favors white Christian males as the majority group with hatred against that group. Were the playing field more level, the critique would disappear. What you want is to make Joseph look bad for pointing out an ugly truth.
on August 14th, 2012 at 5:33 pm
I would point out that the importation of mail-order “brides” from Southeast Asia and Latin America often is a pipeline into forced prostitution. Frequently, there is an agreement with the “agency” that if he is displeased, the husband can “divorce” his bride with no obligation; the papers, signed by semiliterate girls with little or no knowledge of English, include agreement to default/waver of alimony, and they are processed, when so requested, through fast-track jurisdictions. The “bride” is then told she is financially obliged for huge sums to the agency, and sometimes that she will be detained until she pays it off. Guess how she is supposed to pay it off?…
By the way, guys, our Hammerhead also makes a pest of himself elsewhere. Don’t bother tryng to enlighten him.
on August 14th, 2012 at 6:56 pm
NWOslave, prove there is no prostitution in Europe. Never heard of the red light districts in Holland, Italy, and Germany? The red light district in Amsterdam is the most famous one. Oh, there is also no such thing as a “white culture” because white is a color and nothing else. And where has anyone said they hate whites, Christians, and males?
on August 15th, 2012 at 2:33 am
Oh GREAT! We’ve got some more stellar logic from NWOslave. This one’s going to be easy.
“Why didn’t you include, what is the legal definition of a Jewish, Muslim, Athiest, ect, marriage in your line of questioning? Clearly you show an irrational hatred of only Christianity. Why?”
Clearly you are an idiot. Most of the opposition to gay marriage in the US comes from groups claiming to represent Christianity. They openly state that their definition of marriage is correct. Ergo it makes sense to reference Christianity when this issue is raised in the US.
“You also say, “White supremacist’s want it to go back to the way it was – and that way it was – was that – a white man would take a black woman, native american woman, asian woman, mexican woman,”
Do you have any proof of this? Why not how native americans want to take a black woman, asian woman. Or perhaps the way blacks want to take a mexican or white woman?”
This fact is well established, and it happens to be one of the reason why, for example, African Americans have, on average, 25% European blood(and often look nothing like Africans). Many “whites” in America have native blood and vice versa.
“You go on to state how, “white” men are sex slavers. First off, the highest rate of prostitution is indigenous to non-white cultures to non-white men.”
Evidence please.
” Secondly, women who willingly, with full knowledge sell sex for money are not sex slaves.”
To a childish,infantile mind this might seem to be the case. In the real world it isn’t. Many women are forced into prostitution by economic hardship, and even then many are not told what it is they will be doing. Often times they think they are simply gettting into exotic dancing or in many cases, simply waitressing.
“They are in fact the ones doing the exploitation. ”
Idiocy. Sheer, unadulterated, idiocy. When the money in your hand gives you power over another person’s body, you hold the power and you are exploiting. The very term “exploit” means to use or employ.
“Thirdly, every study done to date shows that over 90% of prostitutes work for themselves with no pimp, They choose to on their own. Finally, over 50% of all prostitution are males for gay clients.”
Every study done to date huh? Then it shouldn’t be hard to find one of them. In fact I actually keep track of this issue and that assertion would be laughable if reality weren’t so tragic.
“Everything about your post shows hatred for all things Christian, white and male for no other reason than being Christian, white and male. For a site claiming to be watching out for hatred, every comment is unabashed hatred of all things white, Christian and male.”
Moronic premises lead to moronic conclusions. I for one find it ironic that such a staunch defender of Christianity also so tenaciously defends prostitution. I find it ironic, but not surprising.
on August 15th, 2012 at 8:11 am
Thank you Aadila, I owe you.
@NWOslave (forgive the length of this post bro)
I asked what is the legal definition of a Christian marriage in that context because I don’t know many white supremacists that are Muslim, Jewish, or Athiest.
So, that marriage would have to be Christian.
My point being it would have to be recognized by their religion to be a legal, binding marriage, and since a mail order bride doesn’t fit that concept, it is my professional opinion that marriage was a farce.
Do I have proof that a white man wanted to take a black woman, native American woman, or a Mexican woman, and have their sexual way with them?
Brother – I AM PROOF. I wish I could post my pic. I am a multi-racial, black, Mexican, Cherokee, Creole – BONIFIED EAST TEXAS REDBONE. I am living Proof of what I say, and I’m here to tell you that white supremacists would love nothing more than to go back to the way it was.
Also. I am a Christian. Unlike most of my comrades on this forum I do accept Christ as my Lord and Savior, I just don’t believe the crap that these others spew about the bible that makes THINKING PEOPLE question the existence of God. I believe it is the fault of the Christian Identity people and others who pollute the true nature of being a Christian that drive people away from it. CHRIST DIDN’T PREACH HATE.
Oh, Incidentally, Native Americans did take black women as well. It’s common knowledge in Texas that the Comanche fought for the confederacy and were allowed to purchase black slaves. Knuckle head.
You know, the only people who WANT to take (key word is take) other women is white men. Because everyone else just asks them to go out on dates.
White men have a history of owning sex slaves. And I am only pointing out history, and MY PERSONAL BELIEF, that they want it to go back to that way because it is the fact that civil rights, gay rights, women’s suffrage, and the end of child labor, took away their complete and total control. They lost their power. And they want it back.
That threw off the balance. I love Chris Rock for his tweet. I thought it was funny as Hell.
“Happy White People’s Independence Day. But the slaves did enjoy the fireworks.”
That was funny as hell, but nevertheless true. How was it not true?
Also, you ever been to the Philippines? I’ve only steamed by it myself, never stepped foot on the island, but I served with more Filipinos than I can count on the west coast.
Believe it or not, there are some people in the world who have to resort to a certain lifestyle in order to escape their environment and have a small hope at a better life.
It is the individuals who take advantage of said lifestyle who are the exploiters. Look up the definition of the word.
If you can read, and not just spew what you get out of your meetings.
I do not argue with your numbers on prostitution. I in fact do not dislike the practice, as long as it is consensual and there is no rape involved and TAXES ARE BEING PAID. If I gotta pay taxes, everyone should pay taxes.
But are your figures from the US or from the Philippines? I’m sorry you think people have a choice in the matter.
Let’s see, either I can share this bed with poisonous snakes on a nightly basis, or I can get shipped to the US and start a new life. Hmmm, let me see???
I am sorry you think my post shows hatred for Christianity. My tattoos of Jesus and his Blessed Mother may disagree with you, but you may need to realize that there is more than one type of Christianity in the world.
I absolutely believe in One God, the Father, the Almighty, creator of Heaven and Earth, and of all things, seen, and unseen sir. Key word on the “unseen”.
A lot of Christians conveniently forget out that aspect of their faith.
I also believe in Wicca, and in my faith, the two of them work together. Their gods and goddesses are my Arch Angels and Guardian Angels.
I wear both a crucifix and a UPRIGHT pentagram on the same chain. You have no idea just how far down the rabbit hole in my Christianity goes. It goes a lot farther than the confines of the bible I can tell you that right now.
I actually thinks it’s funny that people think the holy spirit blessed the bible, and then, just, stopped talking.
My sister is a very talented clairevoyant, of course I come from a talentended family, me being a clairesentient myself. All my sisters are sensitive, comes from years of back brewing, burning things, breaking eggs, and generations of Santaria mixed with Catholocism. You have no idea do you?
But I’m sure my sister can tell me a thing or two about you. If I was to ask her, which I won’t, because you are of no consequence to me.
I just don’t think I’m you’re kind of Christian. And believe it or not, I don’t hate white people, I love them. I love the new generations of White People.
I do not like the old generations of White People, like the man I used to rent a house from in Brenham, Texas when I was going to Blinn Junior College. He thought I was a strange looking Mexican.
He said, “I don’t mind renting to you wetbacks, because you pay your rent. But I can’t tolerate those niggers.”
I said, “Well I’m sorry Mr. ******, but I got a little black man in me. You know what a redbone is?”
He said, “You mean to tell me you’re a half nigger?”
I said, “Well I guess I am sir.”
He didn’t say nothing else, he turned his back, went on his way, and guess who paid me a visit that night to evict me into the streets of Brenham, Texas???
No, I don’t hate white people. I don’t hate you. And if anyone doesn’t believe that white men had black sex slaves is a fool that don’t want to acknowledge their own history.
But by acknowledging their history they can change it, and make it better. Not go back to the way it was.
on August 15th, 2012 at 9:05 am
Just a few more things to patch the holes in the indomitable defense against stupidity. Kudos to Ruslan and Joseph for getting to the things I meant to say but neglected.
NWO asserts (and has failed to produced the evidence demanded by Ruslan): “First off, the highest rate of prostitution is indigenous to non-white cultures to non-white men.”
Were this true (and we have no evidence), it would be due not to “non-white cultures” but the economic conditions prevalent in countries where populations are predominately non-European. In other words, the fruit of European colonial devastation.
I agree with Joseph about not moralizing over the transaction of sexual services for cash. Not only would it be pointless, it distracts from the real problem. The problem with prostitution is the pimping, confinement, and abuse that goes along with it, due in large part to the criminalization of the activity, so that women and men (and even children) in a situation of risk are unable or unwilling to seek help.
Prostitution should be regulated for public health reasons and the human and civil rights of sex workers protected if this is their chosen occupation. The key word is chosen. Pimping should be outlawed altogether, because it is by nature an exploitive transactional relationship.
As to Joseph and his beliefs I can only offer my full support. Since my faith allows the practice of other religions, I also consider myself Christian in the broad sense (though not recognized as such by orthodox Christianity) and know from experience that Afro-Brazilian spiritualism is a bona fide practice, as well as its sister arts.
There is a huge wealth of scientific evidence regarding extrasensory perception and other mystical experiences that is largely ignored by science, but studies also indicate many medical professionals and researchers themselves believe but are reluctant to make their feelings known. I refer to Brian Weiss MD (Columbia and Yale) as only one example of this kind of serious, credible researcher into mysticism.
I can also affirm that my lifelong practice of meditation confirms the power of Joseph and you should thank your lucky stars he’s good as gold. We did not all end up here by chance.
on August 15th, 2012 at 9:51 am
I am honored to be among such knowledgeable, well-spoken, and noble-hearted colleagues. Now that I have finshed this MANUSCRIPT, I will try to take part with you in a way that does you better justice.
Love,
Rey Mohammed
on August 15th, 2012 at 10:05 am
Aadila, again, thank you. Have a good day. But I imagine we will converse again before it is over.
on August 15th, 2012 at 10:42 am
Rey I know what it’s like to be working full tilt boogie on a manuscript. If you think it’s finished now, wait till you get it back. All the little errors and mistakes you thought you had eradicated suddenly pop their little heads up when you see the pages.
Congrats and keep going.
Joseph, you keep going too. I don’t think it’s ever really over. I think it just changes form.
on August 15th, 2012 at 1:05 pm
Some great stuff posted here. Joseph, Ruslan, and Rey, thank you. I try to learn something every day, and you have taught me a lot just in the last 15 minutes!
on August 15th, 2012 at 1:35 pm
@Joseph
“White men have a history of owning sex slaves. And I am only pointing out history, and MY PERSONAL BELIEF, that they want it to go back to that way because it is the fact that civil rights, gay rights, women’s suffrage, and the end of child labor, took away their complete and total control. They lost their power. And they want it back.”
White men have the least history of owning slaves for anyone on the planet, and were often sold as slaves. The slave trade of blacks still goes on today in africa by africans.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery
In fact, african history is a history of slavery.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldserv.....ter2.shtml
A quote from african King Gezo… “The slave trade is the ruling principle of my people. It is the source and the glory of their wealth…the mother lulls the child to sleep with notes of triumph over an enemy reduced to slavery…”
—————-
If you’re going to say, “white men have a history of owning slaves.” Be prepared to be corrected when you’re wrong. What you should have said was white men have the least amount of history as being slave owners.
In fact, white men are the only people in the history of the world to have fought a war to end slavery for a race which wasn’t their own race. 600,000 white men died in the civil war to free black people. Name another race that’s done that for any other race. So as far as history goes, white people ain’t all that bad. Are they?
I don’t have the time nor the inclination to debunk all your rantings. For someone claiming to be against hatred you sure preach a lot of it to stir up hatred.
on August 15th, 2012 at 2:20 pm
“In fact, white men are the only people in the history of the world to have fought a war to end slavery for a race which wasn’t their own race.”
Imagine that.
And all this time I was here thinking the human race was the human race.
on August 15th, 2012 at 2:43 pm
@NWOslave:
No, I am not wrong. White men have a history of owning slaves – FACT. And having sex with them – FACT. I learned that in a white public education system. – FACT.
But what you’re implying is, it’s okay, because “the blacks” have been enslaving themselves longer the whites have. Right?
You are actually PROVING my rantings. How exactly do you prove anything that I have said – Wrong?
What did I lie about? Name one falsehood.
And if you want a true history of the white man in America, written by a WHITE MAN in America, read the highly lauded author of Flags of Our Fathers and his book Flyboys.
Yeah, you need to read a few books by James Bradley and come back and tell me about our “proud” heritage.
And when was the last time you wore a uniform and picked up a gun for the good ol’ US of A, and actually went to some of these other slave owning countries to get a better opinion of the slave trade? You ever see the ruins of the slave fortress in Sierra Leone?
I think you’re talking out the side of your mouth. You;ve disproved nothing. And you didn’t correct me. You only stated something I have said myself in previous posts on other threads.
And exactly how do white people have the least amount of time on Earth as slave owners? I guess the Roman, Green and Byzantine Civilizations mean absolutly nothing to your line of history does it?
And White Americans are not the only people in the world to take up arms against slavery. I think a few 18th and 19th century British Soldiers may disagree with you about that if they were alive to tell their stories about intercepting the slave trade and fighting slave traders on the open ocean.
Incidentally, I don’t hate white people, but I don’t like you very much at all. I don’t care about your time or your inclinations.
I do however find a lot of humor in you making an ass out of yourself on the internet.
on August 15th, 2012 at 3:10 pm
NWOslave, yes we know there is no one more enslaved than privileged white men. Blah blah blah. Whatever.
Meanwhile, as for who has been historically the most enslaved group in history, perhaps the following can provide a clue: prostitution was called the “white slave trade” for a reason – in fact, the Mann Act was alternatively known as the White Slave Trafficking Act. See, honey, the most enslaved group throughout history and continuing today has been women of all races. And honey, white women continue to be enslaved in the “white slavery trade” – especially from eastern Europe and of course within the United States – and guess what, it is generally white men who run the “white slave trade.” I guess to you it doesn’t matter because you aren’t a woman.
And sweetie, sex slavery is in fact slavery. White people also came up with the concept of debt peonage and sharecropping which didn’t only oppress black people in the south. many poor whites were also stuck in virtual slavery through debt peonage and sharecropping (not to mention the practice of the sheriff roudning up “vagrants” come harvesting time)..
on August 15th, 2012 at 3:21 pm
One more thing. You know…reciting the history of the USA and spewing hatred are two different things.
I like to think I recite the history that I am aware of. In the hopes of it not be repeated, or forgotten. Because I’ve noticed that a lot of people who post here would like for a lot of history to be forgotten. Just swept under the rug.
But if we forget it, we will repeat it. That would be too convenient for others.
If I am spewing hatred, there are people here who will let me know. If I am wrong, there are people here who will let me know. I hope you don’t mind if I defer to their opinions rather than yours.
on August 15th, 2012 at 4:02 pm
NWO has been over at Manboobz making a pest of himself as well. A true hammerhead, he keeps repeating known lies in order to wear down people he wouldn’t dare talk like that in front of, because that way, even verbally, we can’t get him.
NWO, congratulations! After two weeks of our dealing with interesting anomalies, you have proven the classic Hammerhead is still around.
on August 15th, 2012 at 4:04 pm
Uh, folks, the topic of the blog post wasn’t slavery or anything resembling it, it was how the government failed to pay attention to a blatant neo-Nazi who then ended up killing a bunch of people for no reason except irrational hatred. NWOslave is just an extremist troll, and not an exceptionally interesting or original one.
on August 15th, 2012 at 4:47 pm
I am going to use CM’s comment as a starting point.
NWOslave–many regrettable and horrible things have happened in the past. I daresay that one can find examples of forced prostitution and slavery, to name a few, in the majority of cultures and peoples at one time or another.
Does that make it less wrong? After all, theft and murder has also been going on since history was first recorded — and I expect well before that.
Do I believe that cultures that promote or condone slavery or the prostitution of unwilling children (Note: I would consider all children “unwilling”–hey, they are kids) or adults, including prostitution under duress to pay for “passage” to a (hopefully) better economic, political, social situation should be condemned? Absolutely. And yes — human trafficking for sex and forced labor is a big thing world-wide, including in the U.S. I do think it is wrong for people to turn a blind eye to this, or for governments to allow it, either to boost their economies (or the “personal economies” of corrupt officials or their cronies) or simply because it’s expensive to deal with? Absolutely! Does the fact that it happens, the “other guys do it,” make it less despicable, or let others who do it off the hook. No. Actually, Hell no!
I wish, for example, that the U.S. government would prosecute Americans who book “sex holidays” in other countries that involve (especially), sex with children. But this is a diplomatic issue, like many others that allow international abominations to occur.
SPLC and various human rights groups have worked to raise awareness of these issues, particularly involving those that are happening NOW. SPLC has had a number of articles on “wage theft,” among other things, that is definitely a form of slavery and that affects immigrants and lower-income people of every color.
Other groups that address the issues of slavery and forced prostitution include various women’s rights groups, although some men tend not to notice their work (I am not automatically including you in this category — and all of us tend to “filter out” information that doesn’t seem to apply to us). I remember a letter to the editor in the Wall Street Journal from a man, shortly before the U.S. invaded Afghanistan, responding to the Taliban’s oppression of women by huffily stating (“well, I see women’s groups have given them a pass because they (meaning the Taliban) weren’t white men” or something to that effect). Actually, the WSJ had run several articles on the plight of women under the Taliban — this guy probably just paged past them.
Before my digression there, I meant to say that many women’s rights groups (who also often address children’s rights, as well) are seeking to deal with institutional, cultural, and social factors and traditions that serve to perpetuate the abuse of women and children (and men who can also be pressed into slavery — don’t know the stats on prostitution and don’t care to speculate, although prostitution of boys is well-documented). And then we have the greed meets sociopath factor that cuts across all cultures.
Although it is important to study and remember history, we can’t allow important issues to be bogged down by it. A lot of bad things used to happen. Does this mean that we give those who are engaging in them NOW a pass. If so, then I guess we should simply throw in the towel and let anyone do anything.
That is how silly it is to attempt to excuse bad behavior by alluding to other bad behavior! Enough already.
on August 15th, 2012 at 4:57 pm
CM is correct. NWO is repeating the same kind of red herrings we often hear when the facts of racial injustice in America are mentioned.
Slavery is indeed an ancient practice, observable around the world at many different times and involving many different cultures, religions, and ethnicities. But this does not absolve white Europeans in Africa and the New World from the unprecedented scale and institutionalization of mercantile slavery, at a time when new notions of liberty and individual expression for whites were on the rise in Europe and the Americas.
Nor do such putrified red herrings address the economic distortions slavery had on the distribution of wealth and opportunities along racial lines, which can be easily seen in present day America.
on August 15th, 2012 at 11:30 pm
“White men have the least history of owning slaves for anyone on the planet, and were often sold as slaves. The slave trade of blacks still goes on today in africa by africans.”
Oh good, you doubled-down on the idiocy. First of all, the idea of “white” was a colonial invention, so really we’re talking about Europeans, a diverse group of people. They owned slaves as much as any other group of people. As for slavery today in Africa, it’s irrelevant to issues related to slavery in the US. Black Americans are Americans, not Africans. Also, slavery does indeed continue in Europe, though folks want to pretend it doesn’t.
“In fact, african history is a history of slavery.”
Replace “African” with “human” and you’re more accurate.
“If you’re going to say, “white men have a history of owning slaves.” Be prepared to be corrected when you’re wrong. What you should have said was white men have the least amount of history as being slave owners.”
1. In America they sure as hell do have a “history.”
“In fact, white men are the only people in the history of the world to have fought a war to end slavery for a race which wasn’t their own race. 600,000 white men died in the civil war to free black people. Name another race that’s done that for any other race.”
They also fought wars to wipe out other races in various territories. What is your point?
“I don’t have the time nor the inclination to debunk all your rantings. For someone claiming to be against hatred you sure preach a lot of it to stir up hatred.”
Judging by your idiotic claims about prostitution, you really ought not be using terms like “debunk.”
on August 16th, 2012 at 7:36 am
CM, you’re right. I was just about to get really creative too.
on August 16th, 2012 at 9:28 am
By the way, our Hammerhead-in-Chief, NWO, seems to have been placed under permanent moderator control at Manboobz.
Speaking of red herrings, “Red Herring” is the name of the novel I just completed. It will be coming out in September, from King’s Road Press, as: “Red Herring: The Stinking Trail… Police Corruption in Washington Heights, by Joe Sanchez and Mo Dhania [me]“. I submit that my co-author has lived an interesting life and I know how to talk about it.
on August 16th, 2012 at 9:34 am
CoralSea, it is in fact illegal for an American to engage in “sex tourism” involving children – American law specifically makes it illegal to travel internationally for the purpose of having sex with children. There have been some prosecutions as well, but most of them I’ve seen have involved cases where the icky pervs brought the evidence of the crime back with them in the form of child pornography. Without criminal stupidity providing overwhelming evidence of their crime, its kind of a hard charge to prove since you have to prove illegal activity took place in a different country.
I know I read one case where the defense was that the defendant had traveled to China (I think maybe it was Vietnam) for business and as a “frolic and detour” – yes that is the actual legal term for a sidetrip on a business trip – just happened to have sex with children while there. So his argument was that he didn’t travel for purpose of having sex with children – he just happened to have sex with child prostitutes when he was there for other purposes. He lost and got convicted. But its interesting because of jurisdictional issues, the crime is technically traveling to the other country. Naturally I completely agree that the disgusting icky perv pedophiles who engage in such activity should be locked up for a long time.
I also believe there is an international treaty which prohibits child prostitution and Constitutionally the U.S. can prosecute violations of customary international law regardless of where they take place (the provision was specifcially designed to fight piracy). I’m not sure if the U.S. has signed the U.N. Convention for the Rights of Children however.
on August 16th, 2012 at 10:26 am
Erika — Thanks for letting me know that the U.S. does prosecute child sex “frolics and detours” (pardon me — have to vomit. Okay, I’m back) in other countries. I didn’t know that they did that. Also, I was aware of the various U.N. proclamations against sex trafficking of children.
I believe that they have also taken a stand against slavery, which is still a big thing throughout the world — including slavery and near-slavery in the U.S. (I know that SPLC recently did a report on the abuse of hospitality workers brought in from abroad and basically forced to do minimum wage work rather than undergo the training they thought they had signed on for — certainly a form of quasi-slavery or wage-theft.) Crain’s Chicago Business, which, as its name suggests, is a regional business publication, also ran a frontpage article a few months ago about the staggeringly high number of workers — typically low-wage, sometimes immigrant for often plain old Uhmerkins, as Reynardine would say — are shorted on pay or completely stiffed by employers who had no financial reason to do so, but did it because they could.
I found it interesting that aadila and Ruslan also independently hit upon the stupidity of resting one’s arguments regarding misdeeds on the “but they did it too!” defense. I guess great minds think alike.
Reynardine — Congrats on the book. I’ll have to look for it.
on August 16th, 2012 at 10:44 am
“I’m not sure if the U.S. has signed the U.N. Convention for the Rights of Children however.”
Erika, there is always the danger that by protecting children from perverts the United States will sign on to a one-way ticket to global socialism. Thank goodness we have Kansas, Alabama, Tennessee and a few other states there to keep us safe from any threat to American exceptionalism. Besides our responsibility as God fearing Americans is care about children in the womb. Whatever happens afterwards is the kid’s problem so don’t tread on me or my guns!
See? It’s the Chick Tracts. They changed me!
on August 16th, 2012 at 10:49 am
@CoralSea
No credit due to me. My mind is only great enough to quake in terror of Ruslan’s mind.
But thanks all the same…
on August 16th, 2012 at 11:43 am
Aadila, I warned you that those Chick Tracts are dangerous :P
Next you know you will be claiming that Mike Huckabee’s children’s history cartoons are better than Bugs Bunny. Don’t forget that disobedient children should be stoned to death (incidentailly, if that was the rule, I wouldn’t have made it past preschool because I have always been a complete brat) and that listening to rock and roll will cause you to go straight to Hell.
All sarcasm aside in your list of nutcase states you forgot the two I’ve lived in: Georgia and Virginia. Souih Carolina is ultra crazy as well. And Louisiana. And Texas.
But really, if I remeber correctly the big hangup here was Texas and Virginia: the U.S. objected to provisions banning the execution of children or sentence children to long prison sentences. I think that Louisiana even wanted to be able to execute children for raping younger children. Indiana set a minimum age for the death penalty at 12.
I believe there were also objections from certain states that the treaty might force them to give up their God given right to paddle misbehaving kindergarteners
What a shining beacon for human rights and liberty the U.S. is (oopsie, more sarcasm)
on August 16th, 2012 at 11:54 am
Ruslan definitely is impressive.
on August 16th, 2012 at 1:11 pm
Rey, Ruslan is downright terrifying. The only thing more terrifying than a Ruslan on your side is a Ruslan who is NOT on your side.
on August 16th, 2012 at 2:21 pm
I agree that the latter would be terrifying; the former is merely, on occasion, intimidating.
I have known one mind the marrow of his, and further seasoned by having both survived and understood the major upheavals of the Twentieth Century. She passed on two decades ago; as it is, Ruslan is both impressive and unique.
on August 16th, 2012 at 2:58 pm
Of course, NWOSlave’s sole purpose was to derail the discussion…this was originally about the government’s failure to address a neo-Nazi nutter who figured he could address his despair at neo-Nazism’s failure to do anything in general (and his life’s despair in particular) by going out as a “glorious martyr” to the “cause.”
I suspect that Mr. Wade had the idea that by massacring some of his declared enemies and then dying himself, he could inspire hundreds, nay, thousands, of like-minded people to rise from their computers and internet flame wars to charge forward to lead the revolution against the Zionist Occupational Government, overthrow the regime, bring racial utopia, massacre all the subhumans, and raise giant statues of Mr. Wade throughout the rebuilt United States, honoring him for his vision and sacrifice.
Instead, Mr. Wade ends the way all these would-be glorious martyrs end up…dead and despised. The like-minded junior Fascists hide behind their computer screens and mutter grimly that the whole incident was a government plot. Nobody rising from their seats to take to the streets in the great revolution. No overthrow of the government. No statues of Mr. Wade. He will be forgotten by everyone…
…Everyone but the families of the innocent human beings he gunned down. They, sadly, will remember him forever.
on August 16th, 2012 at 4:59 pm
Were I as rich as Ruslan is grand, I would erect a 10,000 foot statue in his honor, stern, uncompromising, pointing directly at the idiocy of the right wing. I would give it wheels so it could be taken with tractors from town to town like a juggernaut, frightening everybody.
on August 16th, 2012 at 5:47 pm
“Still, the attack occurred in the context of a sharp rise in the number of hate groups and antigovernment “patriot” organizations, mostly spurred by the changing racial demographics of our country, which are personified in our first black president.”
There, someone finally said. The dinosaurs are going extinct, and they’re not happy about it.
on August 16th, 2012 at 8:35 pm
I appreciate your praise, but let’s not forget what kind of people we’re dealing with here. They’re not exactly scholars. All they have are the same old conservative memes and canned arguments from Stormfront, many of which are decades old.
on August 16th, 2012 at 9:11 pm
“But the almost certain reality is that there was little that law enforcement officials or others could have done to foresee or forestall the racist attack.”
I disagree with this statement because there may be a problem with the philosophy of racial divide amongst the smaller communities in Wisconsin and we need to ask ourselves where the police force is being recruited from?
If a complete stranger can move here and see and identify the problem then I can’t imagine that those who have been here for years don’t know it exists. What I am more inclined to believe is that it is a way of life and has become a norm and many have become complacent with its existence.
I also agree that while we have focused on the terrorists threats abroad we have indeed ignored our own terrorists being bred right here in the states and we need our homeland security to really look deep into those employed here that have the position and power to protect these active racist. Furthermore, there needs to be more intelligence sharing amongst the communities that are targeted by these groups. They are not always as open with their deeds. They can be very complex in their criminal activities employed covert methods and operations. So you see why having our military training and enlisting the methods of other American intelligence training could serve them well in growing their organizations and at the same time using stealth methods to employ their criminal acts of hate. We need outside over site and education to guide and apply checks and balances to these local police forces as well.
on August 17th, 2012 at 3:33 am
The linked article on Anders Behring Breivik and reference to anti-Muslim “feelings” is completely out of place as Breivik didn’t kill any Muslims. He killed children at a socialist party camp because he himself said, they supported agendas that brought problems to his country. His plan was not to kill Muslims but to take one of Norway’s socialist party leaders hostage and even kill her! Where exactly in the “anti-Muslim” groups has any of them encouraged left wing politicians to be taken hostage?
on August 17th, 2012 at 9:12 am
Oh, he only killed children at a kid’s camp of the social democratic party(not socialists)? Well that changes everything!
10,000 foot statue, with wheels? Hmm….
on August 17th, 2012 at 9:18 am
JP, if you do not, by now, know the nexis between Pamela Geller, Robert Spencer, et al, and Anders Breivik, nobody here can enlighten you: not the patient Coral Sea, not the legal-minded Erika, not the formidable Ruslan, and not people like me and, I suspect, Joseph, who long ago lost patience with those who embrace stupidity the better to engender meanness.
on August 17th, 2012 at 10:30 am
Do you prefer treads over wheels, Ruslan? I am sure we can devise some form of modulation for your triumphal effigy that suits your preference. My only request is that it be energy efficient and not contribute to climate change (unless it is the climate of the political debate).
on August 17th, 2012 at 11:20 am
Aadila, if you propose a statue of that size, I suspect only the engineers at Cape Canaveral could provide the transport system. And, other than the fact that he is male, we don’t even know what Ruslan looks like (I suspect only that he is old enough to be wise and young enough to be militant)
on August 17th, 2012 at 12:18 pm
Oh, Lard.
If that’s the case let’s just scrub the mission. Sorry Ruslan.