Hatewatch Tweets
Hatewatch is managed by the staff of the Intelligence Report, an investigative magazine published by the Alabama-based civil rights group Southern Poverty Law Center.
SPLC: Family Research Council License-to-Kill Claim ‘Outrageous’
Editor’s Note: The following statement may be attributed to Mark Potok, Senior Fellow of the Southern Poverty Law Center and editor of its Intelligence Report and Hatewatch blog.
Yesterday’s attack on the Family Research Council and the shooting of a security guard there was a tragedy. The Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) deplores all violence, and our thoughts are with the wounded victim, Leo Johnson, his family and others who lived through the attack.
For more than 40 years, the SPLC has battled against political extremism and political violence. We have argued consistently that violence is no answer to problems in a democratic society, and we have strongly criticized all those who endorse such violence, whether on the political left or the political right.
But this afternoon, FRC President Tony Perkins attacked the SPLC, saying it had encouraged and enabled the attack by labeling the FRC a “hate group.” The attacker, Floyd Corkins, “was given a license to shoot an unarmed man by organizations like the Southern Poverty Law Center,” Perkins said. “I believe the Southern Poverty Law Center should be held accountable for their reckless use of terminology.”
Perkins’ accusation is outrageous. The SPLC has listed the FRC as a hate group since 2010 because it has knowingly spread false and denigrating propaganda about LGBT people — not, as some claim, because it opposes same-sex marriage. The FRC and its allies on the religious right are saying, in effect, that offering legitimate and fact-based criticism in a democratic society is tantamount to suggesting that the objects of criticism should be the targets of criminal violence.
As the SPLC made clear at the time and in hundreds of subsequent statements and press interviews, we criticize the FRC for claiming, in Perkins’ words, that pedophilia is “a homosexual problem” — an utter falsehood, as every relevant scientific authority has stated. An FRC official has said he wanted to “export homosexuals from the United States.” The same official advocated the criminalizing of homosexuality.
Perkins and his allies, seeing an opportunity to score points, are using the attack on their offices to pose a false equivalency between the SPLC’s criticisms of the FRC and the FRC’s criticisms of LGBT people. The FRC routinely pushes out demonizing claims that gay people are child molesters and worse — claims that are provably false. It should stop the demonization and affirm the dignity of all people.
on August 16th, 2012 at 4:08 pm
I must say, at a time of horrific tragedy, the Family Research Council is showing a lot of gall and nerve, using this incident to advance their agenda.
When has the SPLC deliberately or outrightly advocated the use of violence to settle our national political and racial disputes? Anybody? Anybody? Show me the statement, right here on their website.
I hope Leo Johnson makes a swift recovery and that Floyd Corkins faces the full measure of justice, and that this debate continues in a civil manner.
If we can’t agree on anything, can we at least agree to behave to others in a civil manner?
on August 16th, 2012 at 4:15 pm
As I stated previously, clinical and social psychologists have a name for this: DARVO. But the French described this stance centuries before:
Sans loi,
Sans foi,
Et sans pudeur.
on August 16th, 2012 at 4:27 pm
What happened to the “personal responsibility” mantra of the right wing? Sheesh. Talk about looking for a scapegoat…
Even so, I will try to understand that this guy is speaking from fear, anger, pain, resentment, and ignorance. I think upon reflection he may change his mind. Perhaps if he seeks inspiration in his faith he will find that his words could be better expressed.
I will not ask anyone else to do the same. I know how most of you feel about these attitudes. Just so you understand why I refuse to condemn the FRC for seeking to allocate blame, when I feel anger, shock, pain, fear and so on, it leads me to do and say things which I would not normally do or say. This is a very normal form of reaction and all of us have probably experienced something similar in our lives. The attack was very recent. The feelings are very raw.
For those at the FRC, I hope you will accept this expression of my feelings and sincerest wishes for the swift recovery of Leo Johnson. I also hope for continued progress toward peaceful dialogue and an end to hate. Anyone, of any political hue, could find themselves a victim of a crime of ideology.
We are truly all in this together.
on August 16th, 2012 at 4:34 pm
SPLC is a Christian hating organization and now their hate spreading, discriminating agenda has led to violence. The attempts of the “left” to pin every mass shooting on the “right wing” has now come back to bite them in a very demonstrable way. There is no doubt about the motivation and intent of FRC shooter, nor is their any doubt of his political views. SPLC and networks like MSNBC who give them an audience should be ashamed of themselves today and should pay all the medical bills of the victim.
on August 16th, 2012 at 5:16 pm
They criticize the SPLC’s terminology while they continue to maintain that all gay people are evil pedophiles. The FRC has probably caused tons of murders and assaults with their propaganda, but they say others are doing it. Conservative hypocrisy at it’s finest.
on August 16th, 2012 at 5:17 pm
Tony Perkins knows full well that he and his cronies and fellow FRC members are a group whose sole mission is to prove to the world that the LGBT community is comprised of pedophiles and monsters. I cannot apologize for the shooting because I had nothing to do with it–it was the work of a lone gunman with some serious issues. That does not erase the decades of hate and venom that the FRC, and Tony Perkins, have inflicted on the people in this country. If you want to be part of the solution, Tony, the first step is to realize you are part of the problem. You and yours, Mr. Perkins, are nothing more than CHINOs=CHristians In Name Only.
on August 16th, 2012 at 5:19 pm
First — Kudos, Mark — and THANK YOU for the work that SPLC has done and continues to do.
Second — Ah! Aadila — you are going to think I have something against you, which I don’t — love your posts. But now you are pulling a CoralSea and trying to be understanding toward Mr. Perkins and his ilk! I applaud your willingness to consider his point of view, but I think, in this case, it is appropriate to dive straight into the heart of the matter:
FRC is, indeed, a hate-mongering organization in regard to their spreading of knowing falsehoods against LGBT persons. Again — they don’t have to embrace homosexuality, or be “okay” with it, but if they want to be un-listed (or de-listed — and EPA term for wastes that are no longer considered sufficiently hazardous as to require special handling under the Resource Conservation and Recovery Act — sorry, I’m a consultant. Couldn’t resist), then they can stop with the lying and be content with simply condemning.
I don’t care if they do other “good works.” They still create hostility toward LGBT people. To give them a pass on this would be like saying Ted Bundy was a nice guy — you know, except for all the serial killings.
I expect that Mr. Perkins is upset about the guard — he is, after all, a man, not a monster. But I also don’t doubt for a minute that he and others on the Religious Right and other bastions of intolerance (note: no — I don’t consider all Christians intolerant) will use this incident to garner all of the donations and political capital that they can get their hands on.
on August 16th, 2012 at 5:23 pm
The guy had 15 Chik-Fil-A sandwiches with him – maybe he was just mad because they have politicized the choice between whther to get chicken sandwiches from Chik-Fil-A or Popeyes
Maybe he had eaten too many Chik-Fil-A sandwhiches and went temporarily insane (see People v. White from California commonrly known as the Twinkee Defense case)
Maybe he had been reading too many Jack T. Chick religious tracts while eating Chik-Fil-A sandwiches.
Anyone remember when the Columbine shootings took place and everyone blamed Marilyn Manson when it turned out that the real culprit was bowling?
on August 16th, 2012 at 6:13 pm
The FRC and NOM back Republican policies that deny health care to mentally ill poor people and that make gun and ammo access insanely easy. Virtually all in the seemingly constant string of public gun attacks and massacres feature mentally ill people who did not have easy access to proper health care, but did have easy access to guns and ammo. If FRC and NOM were interested in changing policies to prevent such attacks, they would be talking about the policy changes needed to limit such attacks, not going on a passive-aggressive tear against the SPLC.
on August 16th, 2012 at 6:21 pm
…..because Tony Perkins and his “Family Research Council” are a hate group, this would explain the crazy, hateful statement he made about the SPLC.
on August 16th, 2012 at 6:32 pm
I have to unfortunately disagree with aadila about Perkin’s motives. He made a very calm and prepared speech blaming the SPLC for the violence of this one deranged individual.
Violent hate crimes are appalling no matter who makes them or for whatever cause. The Family Research Council proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are indeed a hate group when they sought to blame the SPLC for this hateful act. The history and reputation of the SPLC is such that any person, regardless of political ideals, knows that this is not a group that encourages violence for any reason. Accusing the SPLC is just another ham-fisted play to advance the EXTREME right wing agenda.
on August 16th, 2012 at 6:33 pm
I will be very interested to hear the details of what actually happened. Nothing I’ve heard so far seems to support the notion that Floyd Corkins entered the building with his handgun blazing. The nature of Mr. Johnson’s injury suggests that it was sustained in an attempt to disarm Mr. Corkins and it seems quite feasible that the gun discharged accidentally in the struggle. That’s no excuse for illegally carrying a gun in the District of Columbia but it’s a far cry from the actions of right wing terrorists with which FRC would like to equate it.
on August 16th, 2012 at 6:36 pm
Yeah, these guys are REALLY classy. I don’t have more to say than that I hope the security guard recovers and finds a job working for someone who deserves his protection, not these jerks.
on August 16th, 2012 at 6:56 pm
SPLC’s response is appropriate. Thank you for taking a stand for the LGBT people throughout the World against these Hate Groups. It is a sad state of affairs these groups spin hate behind the guise of religion.
on August 16th, 2012 at 7:41 pm
I watched the flood of sockpuppets from FRC with little surprise. One thing about RWAs is that they know how to follow a script. All the faux outrage and pearl clutching would be amusing in a rational world, but as I have said before, we live in the good ole U.S. of A.
While we may ridicule those who ostensibly post here in support of various racist, sexist, homophobic and generally idiotic causes, I cannot remember when anyone has used eliminationist language. The same cannot be said about the aforementioned visitors.
Nor has the SPLC used eliminationist rhetoric about the FRC. Again, the same cannot be said about the FRC and their supporters. Ultimately, this will all be forgotten.
on August 16th, 2012 at 7:55 pm
The individual left wing fascist nut is guilty of domestic terrorism. The SPLC is guilty of listing traditional organizations as hate groups because of policy differences. Both of you are fascist but only one will be going to jail.
Congrats.
on August 16th, 2012 at 8:21 pm
Although I was coming to express a firm belief in traditional marriage, I first looked at your hate map and realized the new black panther party was also on the list, which just called for the bombing of white babies. So thankyou for adding All hate groups.But back to my point, I don’t understand why every institution that doesn’t spew hate, has to be changed by your organization?Answers please!
on August 16th, 2012 at 8:27 pm
I would say that it depends upon the tactics that legal advocacy groups use. Lawsuits have turned into a substitute for direct violence. I can speak from some experience via prolonged legal action as the victim of unregistered sale of securities. It would have been easier, much easier, to have been beaten and robbed. At least you would recover in a month or two.
on August 16th, 2012 at 9:17 pm
If the SPLC had any moral courage, you would add yourselves to your “hate group” list. You have recklessly spread hate, misinformation, and lies about anyone who you do not agree with. This shooting is a direct consequence of your reckless hate mongering. At least own up to the consequences of your own actions.
on August 16th, 2012 at 10:20 pm
This is comparable to blaming Chick-fil-a. Neither group is responsible. Floyd Corkin is responsible. Batman, didn’t make the Colorado guy kill people. Smoke and Mirrors in a nation full of fear and hate. Jesus was great, Christians not so much and they don’t practice what they preach. If they spent more time looking at there own actions we wouldn’t have all this hate. I’m a straight man that believes in God and Jesus Christ, but I dislike Christians, because they feel “They are the way of the light.”, they want a one nation religion and accept no other difference at all. If Homosexuality is a sin to a Christian, fine… but it’s not there burden nor there sin.
on August 16th, 2012 at 11:04 pm
If the SPLC were honest it would should classify itself a hate group as it hates haters.
SPLC should take note of DeadMau5. He Hearts Haters.
on August 16th, 2012 at 11:29 pm
I would like to know what exempts all of you at the SPLC from your own standards? Without trying to spin the situation, you ought to look honestly into your own hearts and ask yourselves what you’d say if the situation were reversed and the FRC had labelled you a “hate group.” By your own standards that kind of rhetoric is inflammatory and they would bear some responsibility for any ensuing violence.
Remember those terrible shootings in Arizona? Remember what the SPLC said then?
http://www.splcenter.org/blog/.....-loughner/
Remember what your “expert” said about rhetoric?
http://www.splcenter.org/blog/.....-shooting/
There was nothing even tangentially tying Loughner to any “right-wing” political group and yet you blamed the shootings on the rhetoric of your political foes. In this situation, the shooter has clear political beliefs, very much in line with yours. If you truly believe that rhetoric leads to violence, you at the SPLC need to apologize for the inflammatory labels and stop branding those with whom you disagree as “hateful” and “hate groups.” It doesn’t help your cause even if it doesn’t lead to violence.
on August 17th, 2012 at 1:56 am
“I disagree with you” does not equal “I hate you”. The SPLC is going beyond the pale by labeling FRC a “hate group”. Just because someone believes marriage is reserved for heterosexual couples doesn’t mean they hate anyone. Are you a hater if you disagree with NAMBLA’s belief in man-boy sex? People are entitled to have a different opinion without being called a hater.
on August 17th, 2012 at 2:23 am
Couple of points:
I don’t blame the SPLC at all for this act and put the responsibility solely on the shooter.
Additionally, I support gay-rights 100%, always have since my college years. However, I do NOT support labeling opposition of gay-rights as “Hate-groups”, that crosses the lines.
Last, I have NOTICED the DISTINCT pattern in SPLC labeling of groups to be VERY political in nature and I find that very troubling.
The SPLC has lost credibility in my opinion and I would call both the SPLC and the FRC “hate-groups” if I wanted to marginalize their speech and opinions, which I DO NOT.
But it is OBVIOUS that this is the tactic the SPLC has been exploiting and I think it is shameful.
on August 17th, 2012 at 2:49 am
I agree with Tony Perkins. I think it was Einstein who said, “The World Is A Dangerous Place, Not Because Of Those Who Do Evil, But Because Of Those Who Look On And Do Nothing.”
The The Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) seem to brand organizations as hate centers who want to do something about problems in the world.
SPLC is really a form of hate center in it’s own right. The way SPLC act, you’d figure it won’t take long before the organization brands Amnesty International a “hate group” for fighting against human rights violations. Some of the names on the SPLC’s list shouldn’t even be there and makes you wonder what agenda the SPLC has.
I will take one example because it is so blatantly clear:
I have seen no effort at all by the SPLC to stop religious hate crimes by Muslims against Jews and Christians, which are drastically rising. Or to end the persecution of Muslims who leave Islam, to which they have a permanent death sentence on their heads.
I have actually not seen any work on the part of SPLC that would seek to stop extreme human rights violations that are lawfully permitted under Islam and encouraged in mosques across America, such as sodomy of infants, physical and sexual abuse of women, persecution of homosexuals, forced conversion (by violence and threats), indoctrination for children to hate non-Muslims, forced covering (burka) for which many women are beaten and forced to wear or they face threats of rape and physical abuse. The doctrine of hate against non-Muslims have made more and more Christians, Hindu’s, Sikhs and Jews subject to random hate crimes by Muslims. In fact there is such a notable increase in these random crimes, that members from these various groups have joined hands with some of the organizations who oppose Islam, listed as hate groups on the SPLC website!
These crimes are quite common within the closed door of the family home within Muslim communities. They are particularly common with first generation immigrants from Muslim countries. Over 80% of Muslim women have been subject to rape at some point in their life. Over 50% of Muslim children have been subject to incest. But where is the SPLC objection to these Islamic “ideals” that are endorsed by Mohammed and thus fully legal under Sharia law? Sharia law is what Muslims in America want to be legalized. Is SPCL fighting against their efforts to legalize Sharia?
On the contrary to opposing extreme human rights violations from the Muslim community, the SPLC almost seem to be protective of these vicious ideals that are the core of Islamic teachings and rights.
So what exactly does the The Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) represent?
on August 17th, 2012 at 4:17 am
Oh, so you don’t like it when someone casually blames your over-the-top rhetoric for violence, eh? You must have already forgotten that after the Giffords shooting, your president–without ANY evidence–blamed conservatives in general, and Tea Party people specifically for causing the shooting.
Kinda nice that most journalists never hold you accountable for anything, isn’t it?
on August 17th, 2012 at 5:31 am
The SPLC already knew that their “movement” attracts these self-loathing nutcases. They publish that hit list knowing full well that there are loonies out there who will target those people. Some of these left wing thugs recently attacked a restaurant full of diners in Chicago simply because of their color of their skin. The SPLC should have expected this type of violence when they listed the FRC on their hit list next to the Ku Klux Klan.
on August 17th, 2012 at 6:15 am
It wasn’t a “tragedy” a tragedy is when there is an earthquake or a fire, this was a deliberate attack and the shooter justified it based on the group holding a position that the entire nation held and has still won every election that has been offered.
I eagerly away your designation of the Catholic church, Protestant Churches, Buddhists, Muslims and Black churches who have the same position on Gay Marriage as the FRC as hate groups, or would that hurt the gravy train?
The really sad thing is when you pick out groups like FRC you trivialize actual groups like the Aryan nations, Nazis Klan etc…
on August 17th, 2012 at 8:41 am
For years the SPLC has demonized various organizations with which it has a political difference of opinion.
Labeling these organizations as “Hate Groups” is now clearly shown to be a catalyst for nut jobs and crazies to do violence against these so-called and incorrectly labeled “Hate Groups”.
The fact that someone doesn’t agree with you is not reason to you to declare open season on them.
You people need to look deep within yourselves and re-assess your actions and attitudes.
on August 17th, 2012 at 8:52 am
@CoralSea
I know you are right. My view about the FRC has not changed: their activities are abhorant. However, they are still human beings and people make mistakes. I wouldn’t give up on them as human beings nor, taken to extremes, on Ted Bundy (but you can sure as hell expect I wouldn’t drop my guard around him either). As Gandhi once said, “hate the sin, not the sinner”.
We all have a little bit of hate inside us. I am just urging people to not put wood on the fire until the FRC has had a chance to read the red letters in the Bible and see if it applies to what they are saying.
I am more concerned about people who are not part of FRC buying into the idea that opposing hate crimes is somehow a hate crime. When we react from the same position of pain, shock, anger and so on, we will put wood on the fire. Stay calm, stay peaceful, stay focused and address this through tolerance.
on August 17th, 2012 at 8:53 am
Oh, poop, Friday again. So many hammerheads, so little time. (And so much DARVO).
on August 17th, 2012 at 8:58 am
@David Ward
I agree totally with you. My concern is that we need to separate our opposition to the ideology from the equation for a moment. By challenging the ideology at a time when they were apparantly attacked for their ideology, it only gives credence to what Perkins is saying. Most rational people will realize that an organization dedicated to tolerance is not responsible for this attack or any other. Don’t let them bait you. But of course you are perfectly right in your view.
on August 17th, 2012 at 9:03 am
Oh dear, so many morons, so little time. It’s interesting how these folks are so silent when some right-wing nut shoots up an abortion clinic or a Unitarian church, but suddenly they decided that rhetoric DOES cause shootings when ONE guy attacks a far-right Christian group.
How does labeling a group a “hate group” equate to “go shoot them?” Conservative pundits are known for numerous references to violence as a solution to the “liberal problem.” You can even buy “Liberal hunting licenses.” By all means, show us something which even remotely resembles this coming from a group like the SPLC.
on August 17th, 2012 at 9:12 am
“I eagerly away your designation of the Catholic church, Protestant Churches, Buddhists, Muslims and Black churches who have the same position on Gay Marriage as the FRC as hate groups, or would that hurt the gravy train?”
Sorry dude. Buddhists don’t have dogma. In general, we don’t even see any real need for marriage at all, unless people want to get married. Our precept is loving, generally monogamous relationships, without great concern over gender. I hope this clarifies some misunderstandings you might have about buddhism. By the way in Taiwan a lesbian couple was just married in a buddhist ceremony, so please don’t include my faith along with the hate groups opposed to gay people.
on August 17th, 2012 at 9:15 am
My advice is to go back to the drawing board and make a clear distinction between those groups who have opinions, even ones you consider ‘hateful ‘ and wrong, and groups like the Klan, etc. who have bad opinions and actively foment violence. You are a major national organization with a big following on the left and big media. When you demonize an organization, many are going to consider it established fact: “This is a ‘hate group’ . Other hate groups include the Clan, Nazis etc.’ And then some off balance extremist ‘does the math’ and considers it OK to murder FRC members.
Too broad a brush, my friends.
Reform.
on August 17th, 2012 at 10:13 am
One day they are going to wake up and I just hope I’m there to see them choke on their words. Since free speech is now under attack, if there is any litigation I hope the SPLC milks these heartless drones of every dime they have.
on August 17th, 2012 at 10:14 am
Actually CJ since the shooter did in fact have 15 Chik-Fil-A sandwiches but there is no evidence that he has any connection at all to the Southern Poverty Law Center, it is in fact much more reasonable to blame the high grease content of Chik-Fil-A sandwiches.
Not that it is very reasonable at all – but really.
Oh on another note, welcome back to one of my favorite male supremacists – Anthony Zarat – has a woman forced you to penetrate her yet, sweetie? Of course, Mr. Zarat doesn’t consider all of the violent and mysognstic things that the male supremacists about women to be violent. Only criticizing someone by accurately pointing out that they promote hate – and yes potentially violence given that the FRC promotes the idea that gay people are child molesters – against gay people by spreading falsehoods about them. Hmm, maybe that is why the men’s rights movement is so obsessed with the idea of women attacking men – to claim that women are violent justifies male violence against women. Sorry, won’t work. We know that men commit almost all of hte violence in the world.
on August 17th, 2012 at 10:17 am
Just donated. Keep up the good work.
on August 17th, 2012 at 10:20 am
Doug Rivers, Steve, and all you other pontifiicating poops, I am tired of hearing how SPLC is “demonizing” groups who keep calling liberals, OWS participants, femiinists, racial egalitarians, gay people, and those who are not right-wing Christians “demon-possessed”. Live by your own effing standards, if you have any other than IOKIYARW.
on August 17th, 2012 at 10:25 am
@Doug,
You seem rational, so I will try reason with you. Have you looked at the reasons why this group is considered a hate group by the SPLC, or are you merely drawing your conclusions without this information?
If there was a group saying the Baptist agenda is to get access to children for sex, or that Baptists were disproportiately pedophiles compared with other groups, would that not constitute a form of irrational hatred against Baptists? What if this group was actively trying to keep Baptists from exercising their Constitutionally protected rights?
Just substitute homosexuals for Baptists and you will see why this is considered a hate group. There is absolutely no basis for these kinds of beliefs. The FRC is actively lobbying on the basis of lies, to the detriment of the civil rights of American citizens.
If you look at the numbers of hate crimes motivated by right wing ideologies, and the scramble by right wing groups to distance themselves from such crimes, it is curious that you would take this position now. I must ask, since I am here a lot, where were you before? I don’t recall ever seeing your comments.
The number of “off balance extremists” who are motivated by left wing ideology is absurdly small compared with the corresponding numbers perpetrated by right wing hate groups. If the FRC incident bothers you, as it bothers me, why do you give the green light to the long list of hate crimes the SPLC has been opposing prior to this incident?
on August 17th, 2012 at 10:31 am
Don,
The FRC did it to themselves and now want to project the blame on anything that makes them uncomfortable instead of owning up to their part in the shooting. The FRC is blaming the SPLC because they are a strong voice against their delusional logic, which is cautious enough to anticipte litigation as they were still careful to use the word “like” in their brazen accusation, to make it look like they were not “attacking” SPLC directly. Last time I checked, if you were correct about something, there was no reason to be afraid of your own words. But a mindless predator cannot easily hide the blood on their hands. By your suggestion however, freedom of speech is suspect and that opens a whole can of worms. This gives power to the predators who use violence to send a message. But I would not expect otherwise from a hate group such as the FRC who will use violence to their advantage. They are just showing their true colors.
on August 17th, 2012 at 10:42 am
Those of you that FALSELY state FRC is only saying their opinion about marriage are absolutely getting the wrong idea. There have been repeated provable lies being scattered linking pedophelia with being gay. That is an outright lie being used to foment hate against gays. There are spokespeople(Sprigg) going on TV saying that homosexual behavior (whatever they decide that is) should be outlawed and FRC donated $25K to Uganda to make it illegal up to death penalty. Look it up on Wikipedia with sourced citations.
Let me say loud and clear: Christians, Buddhists, Jews and many other religions have acceptance of LGBTQ people, perform weddings, leadership who are LGBTQ, who are not treating LGBTQ folks as criminals and outcasts.
I would like to offer my well wishes to Leo Johnson and tell him (and others) that the action of that man are misguided. It seems to be just as wrong to blame SPLC for this as it is to blame all Christians for those that are going out of their way to spread lies and hate that lead to killing Matthew Shepard or Brandon Teena.
I want all this violence to end, but the FRC is not simply stating their views on marriage, they publicly demonize (with lies) and want to criminalize LGBTQ people, which is why SPLC called them a hate group.
on August 17th, 2012 at 10:56 am
Because of the number of boiler-room trolls and sockuppets being vomited forth on us, I have devised a new, multifaceted award: The Hydra Hammerhead. No gold, no silver, no bronze: just dull old LEAD. I’m taking names, and thiis weekend, I’ll be hammering heads.
on August 17th, 2012 at 10:58 am
Once again, all I can say to those of you who have posted decrying SPLC for listing FRC as a hate group “because it disagrees with FRC’s Biblical interpretation” — NO, SPLC listed them as a hate group for their continued and willing repetition of falsehoods regarding LGBT persons (e.g., that pedophilia is a “homosexual problem,” when NO reputable studies have in any way concluded that — including the FBI’s crime statistics).
I would add that in my opinion, groups such as FRC do even more immediate damage through their active opposition to anti-bullying policies because they have indicated that telling Christian kids that they should be tolerant of gay kids somehow violates their religious beliefs.
This is something I have never understood: how does telling kids they shouldn’t bully–even “gay” kids–go against Christian teachings? They can still instruct Christian children that, according to their interpretation of the Bible, homosexuality is wrong, but so is harassing and physically abusing other kids. Would Jesus condone the bullying of gay kids? Something tells me he would not.
Is it okay with FRC if Christian kids bully Muslim kids? Or are gay kids just an easier target? Based on the vehement way groups such as FRC object to anti-bullying programs, I suspect that the leadership of these groups — including Mr. Perkins — gets some sort of twisted, vicarious pleasure out of the suffering of children who are LGBT or otherwise different in some way (maybe vicarious “payback” for that suspiciously ungirly girl who played sports better than them). Or perhaps the pleasure they derive is from knowing that they are teaching (some) Christian kids that its okay to bully, and molding them into good “soldiers” who will continue their willingness to intimidate without a second thought women at Planned Parenthood clinics or others who fail to fall in line with their particular take on the Bible.
And to those commenters who say, “well, they aren’t as bad as the KKK,” this may be true in regard to actual acts of raw, physical violence, but is it okay for them to spread lies that can lead to the violence the LGBT community already suffers, or to actively block anti-bullying policies that might, just possibly, stop another gay, lesbian, or just plain unpopular kid that others have decided must be gay or lesbian from sinking into a deep depression because of bullying or even killing him or herself?
FRC can hold whatever Biblical beliefs it wants, and it can “condemn” whomever it wants, but it SHOULD be called out for stepping over the line and spreading lies that simply serve to fan the flames of hate.
on August 17th, 2012 at 11:20 am
It’s amazing watching you all contort yourselves into narrow minded pretzels. Trying to come up with rationales that STILL blame the FRC, a group that has firm “non-evolving” beliefs, in spite of the fact that it was a narrow minded hate instilled follower of YOUR world view who attached US! It’s incredible how you do that. Please unwrap yourselves long enough to take a breath, let some O2 in, and THINK. It was YOUR world view who attacked OURS! Do you get that? When somebody says a way of life is wrong, it does not mean he hates you. It means you’re wrong! For example, how is it that YOU can tell us we’re wrong and NOT hate us? Or do you….
on August 17th, 2012 at 12:03 pm
“For example, how is it that YOU can tell us we’re wrong and NOT hate us? Or do you….”
Well for starters, we use facts, not opinions to guide our actions. And when we find facts that conflict with our opinions, we change our opinions to conform to the facts. These are two very great differences.
For example, your opinion is that the attacker and the SPLC share the same world view. The fact is that the SPLC is strongly against violence. The attacker employed violence (and was likely deranged). So obviously, your opinion is wrong.
Will you prove ME wrong by changing your opinions to conform to the facts?
on August 17th, 2012 at 12:04 pm
Two comments: 1. Shootings in the inner cities are not because of too many guns, any more than broken windows are because of too many rocks. 2. A cursory review of news demonstrates that the 3% of the population that is gay is far over-represented in pedophilia; have you ever heard of a priest molesting a little girl? Being gay doesn’t make you a criminal–nor is it a choice–but only a fool would turn his 10-year-old son loose at a gay pride rally. Gays call them “chickenhawks,” SPLC calls them an “utter falsehood.” I believe my gay friends and the FRC are smarter than the SPLC.
on August 17th, 2012 at 12:13 pm
Chas,
Only a fool would let their ten-year-son ANYWHERE these days. Society in general is not as safe as it once was.
And pedophilia has absolutely nothing to do with sexual orientation. I lack the time to find the clinical and legal evidence to back up this statement, but I’m sure my friends CoralSea, Erika or Reynardine will be more than happy to step up to the plate.
on August 17th, 2012 at 12:19 pm
Thinkaminute, you cannot think even a second, and all the oxygen in the world will not cause your one brain cell to grow or multiply.
Chas, priests have molested little girls. Like rape, pedophilia is an act of sexual cannibalism, and, priests apart, many of the perpetrators have “normal” sex lives and marriages with adults.
on August 17th, 2012 at 12:22 pm
Reynardine –
I like the hydra idea, however, last night it hit me that “The Zombie” might actually be a wonderfully descriptive award for the current folks who have their panties in a wad over SPLC’s well-reasoned and well-supported process for designating groups that knowingly spew lies that vilify “hate groups.”
They clearly are functioning at a fairly low level intellectually, because despite repeated explanations as to why FRC has been labeled a hate group, their mental processes are too impaired to perform basic reasoning. (For exhibit A, I direct you to Think A Minute’s poorly thought out and poorly written comment just above this one.)
These folks remind me of some of the Kentucky politicians who insisted that study of the theory of evolution be minimized in the public schools of that otherwise fine state — and are now sobbing on the news and blaming the ACT test people because Kentucky students are making a decidedly poor showing in science, and begging them to create a test that the theory of evolution-deficient kids can ace based on, I don’t know — “creation” biology. This is not only pathetic, it demonstrates willful stupidity on their part. Holy cow, folks — let science be science, and let religion be religion, or, “Don’t pray in my classroom, I won’t think in your church!”
And considering the tone of some of these commenters, it’s only a matter of time before they begin calling for “brains! brains!” because they definitely need them.
on August 17th, 2012 at 12:31 pm
Sirs:
I wish to express my appreciation for your work in exposing hate groups such as the KKK, Neo-Nazi’s, etc. However, I am appalled that your definition of hate groups include Christian organizations that are clearly NOT hate groups; yet you give them this designation because they believe and teach the Biblical model for Christian Marriage that has been the “norm” in this country since it was founded. This is not acceptable, and has now brought them under fire from a wacko gunman.
Your refusal to accept the fact that it was your false designation of FRC and similar groups as hate groups on the flimsy evidence that they oppose same sex marriage has most certainly led to the hatred of these groups by those who oppose their viewpoint. As an American with Freedom of Speech, I see this classification of these Christian based groups as flagrant discrimination based on their First Amendment rights under our Constitution, and this false classification has indeed led to the kind of hatred that was spouted by this gunman in their office. From what I know of your organization, I believe that you would have most certainly decried this type of shooting to be a hate crime if this had been perpetrated against a LGBT group, a Muslim group or any other of a lengthy list of groups of people. But, because this happened to a Christian Group, you shrug your involvement in false labeling of these groups. I suppose that, since your designation of FRC as a hate group exists, I shouldn’t be surprised if you would even be elated this happened in the first place. I’m sure you would rejoice if a true hater / terrorist at the World Trade Center had been shot during the series of terrible events, and you appear to classify FRC as the same as these terrorists. That is sad, offensive and completely unacceptable by anyone’s standards.
Sirs, I believe your group is indeed accountable in part for the incident at FRC. Perhaps now, the SPLC is itself should receive a new designation as a hate group, if it persists in incorrectly labeling groups that are clearly not hate groups as such; thereby creating hatred against them falsely.
on August 17th, 2012 at 12:43 pm
When somebody says a way of life is wrong, it does not mean he hates you. It means you’re wrong!
Actually, it means he thinks you’re wrong. At which point, it becomes useful to look at his evidence for that position. For example:
1. Pedophilia is a homosexual problem. True or false?
2. One of the primary goals of the homosexual rights movement is to abolish all age of consent laws and to eventually recognize pedophiles as the ‘prophets’ of a new sexual order. True or false?
Both of these positions have been espoused by the FRC. Both of them are demonstrably false. But people like Tony Perkins cling to these beliefs in hopes of generating outrage and denying legal rights to the citizens of a secular democracy.
The SPLC designated FRC as a “hate group” based on the FRC’s willful embrace of lies like these. This is perfectly consistent with the SPLC’s stated view that “hate groups have beliefs or practices that attack or malign an entire class of people, typically for their immutable characteristics.” To support that designation, the SPLC has simply quoted your heroes as they slandered and demonized the LGBT community (along with all of us who support it).
If you can’t see how bizarre it is to portray FRC as the victim of the SPLC, logical argument is probably wasted on you. Regardless, I’ll point out that believing homosexuality is “wrong” or “unhealthy” does not necessitate or excuse spreading lies about LGBT people and denying them rights.
Lying in the service of institutional discrimination is a choice that the FRC made and reaffirms daily. That’s no one’s fault but their own. And as obnoxious as anti-gay bullying is, what I find really despicable is the way bullies always play the victim when identified and confronted.
Obviously, I don’t believe it’s morally right or politically useful to shoot or firebomb people you disagree with, and I’m saddened by this attack on the FRC. That said, the notion that the FRC’s extreme beliefs, language and tactics only became an incitement to violence when reported by the SPLC is daft even by hard-right standards.
If you’re going to demonize gay people—and treat it as moral courage, no less!—you might at least have the decency to take responsibility for your own words.
on August 17th, 2012 at 12:44 pm
Think a minute, my worldview says that the death penalty is always unacceptable, that violence against others is not acceptable and has no place in politics, that the men who own guns are insecue over the size of their penis, that whatever consenting adults do in their private homes is fine with me, that people can believe whatever stupid and untrue thing they want to, and that criticizing people for saying stupid things and pointing out that what they are saying is wrong does not equal violently attacking them.
And between your tortured reason syntax here “When somebody says a way of life is wrong, it does not mean he hates you. It means you’re wrong” I’m thinking that you said something really stupid.
Let me understand this correctly. According to you, if someone says that not living in communes where there is no person property is wrong it means that you are in fact wrong if you do not live in a commune where there is no personal property.
on August 17th, 2012 at 12:48 pm
It is nothing unusual for those on the right to blame everyone else for their actions. Nor is it unusual to not only victimize the victim again, but to claim victimhood themselves. What they themselves accuse others of doing, they in fact, do it themselves. It’s called projection – The refusal to recognize what they themselves do.
I do not condone violence in any shape or form. While I feel sorry for the security guard that was shot, I feel no sympathy whatsoever for Tony Perkins and those like him. They flood the airwaves, the pulpits, the political landscape with hatred, vitriol, bigotry and intolerance. It truly is sad that in this day and age, women, minorities, the poor, Muslims and the LGBT community are still fighting for equal and civil rights and are still faced with a – thankfully – small percentage of VERY vocal individuals who seek to deny those they deem “different” the same rights they enjoy. I don’t know whether to laugh or cry but, in either case, I find it pathetic.
I have been posting in as many blogs as I can that the best thing we can do is to donate to the SPLC in Tony Perkins name so the SPLC can continue its noble efforts in making this country more tolerant and equal for ALL.
Keep fighting the good fight, Mr. Dees!
on August 17th, 2012 at 12:51 pm
Chas, among other things that you are wrong about, there were in fact several cases where priests – and also ministers – did in fact rape girls.
And many of the pedophiles who molsted boys were engaged in heterosexual relationships with adult women. Many also molested girls.
So you are 100% completely wrong – and you also seem to have an unhealthy obsession with what goes on at gay rallies.
on August 17th, 2012 at 12:51 pm
Chas in Dayton, I wish the SPLC could see that they are on the same side as the NRA, and that many on their dead victims list should have been able to defend themselves. That said, the Background Check to buy a gun rightly doesn’t disqualify everyone who has been in some sort of counseling or drug treatment, but they are currently woefully incomplete in cross checking for people with a valid medical diagnosis of being a nut case.
on August 17th, 2012 at 12:57 pm
The SPLC names over 1100 organisations they’ve deemed it’s OK to hate. The SPLCs major contributor. George Soros.
on August 17th, 2012 at 12:58 pm
I wonder how many of these men here complaining about the gays are going to be watching lesbian porn tonight. I wonder how many of them will skip over the lesbian scenes of their pornos because what they are really watching the men.
Methinks that the homophobes protest too much.
on August 17th, 2012 at 1:01 pm
LAWSUIT! That’s the path forward. I hope the FRC sues the SPLC for every dime they have and seizes all their property and they’re put out of business.
on August 17th, 2012 at 1:11 pm
A cursory review of news demonstrates that the 3% of the population that is gay is far over-represented in pedophilia;
Um…you do know what “cursory” means, right?
In any case, if it’s really true that “the population that is gay is far over-represented in pedophilia,” you should have no problem presenting compelling evidence. Please do so.
have you ever heard of a priest molesting a little girl?
Yes.
That said, please note the different status of boys and girls within the Catholic Church. Boys have historically been far more likely to be altar servers, which means that they’ve been far more likely to spend unsupervised time with clergy members. (Females couldn’t be altar servers until 1983; many churches still forbid it.)
Outside the Catholic Church, the majority of pedophiles molest girls. (See, for instance, Psychological Profile of Pedophiles and Child Molesters and A Profile of Pedophilia).
Clinging to false ideas about a minority group, despite clear and easily accessible evidence that those ideas are wrong, is a pretty good indicator of “hatred,” in my book.
on August 17th, 2012 at 1:12 pm
And don’t tell me about the “Gun Show Loophole”‘ either. Every transfer, even from father to son, could be required to go through a dealer and the currently existing background check for a small fee, without turning it into some sort of national registration scheme. It would be up to the seller to keep a copy of the background check in case it was used in a crime.
on August 17th, 2012 at 1:22 pm
The SPLC criticizes the FRC for spreading falsehoods about the LGBT community, yet is legendary for spreading falsehoods themselves about the Men Rights Movement through Arthur Goldwag’s articles.
on August 17th, 2012 at 1:26 pm
The SPLCs major contributor. George Soros.
The great thing about posting accusations online is that you can include hyperlinks that go directly to your evidence. I wonder why so many right-wing trolls fail to take advantage of this convenient feature?
on August 17th, 2012 at 2:00 pm
The Hydra Head is coming. And soon.
on August 17th, 2012 at 2:20 pm
Oh lookie here – another one of the whiny male supremacists from the men’s rights movement has showed up. Welcome ZimbaZumba.
on August 17th, 2012 at 2:35 pm
“The SPLC names over 1100 organisations they’ve deemed it’s OK to hate. The SPLCs major contributor. George Soros.”
Um…evide….Oh wait, it’s NWOslave. Never mind.
on August 17th, 2012 at 2:44 pm
I’ve been unhappy with the direction of the SPLC for years. I loathe their political positions, but calling the FRC a hate group, the same label used the KKK and Neo-Nazis, is ridiculous.
on August 17th, 2012 at 3:08 pm
It’s too bad, Sam Molloy, that our few gun control laws don’t set baseline IQ, reading comprehension, and ability to apply principals of logic in order to obtain a gun permit — and to tack on an extra count to those who don’t own guns legally, but are found to be in possession of a weapon. This could provide extra prison time for gang members — and it would clearly keep some of the folks who have been foaming at the mouth today at SPLC from owning firearms. Clearly, many of these folks cannot follow a logical explanation, nor is their reading comprehensive up to grasping the difference between willfully spreading falsehoods that villify others and simply voicing an opinion.
We DON’T CARE if FRC wants to make pronouncements about sin based on their interpretation of the Bible. We may find their views distasteful, but that’s free speech, and I don’t believe that anyone at SPLC or among the regular commenters think that free speech should be abridged. We DO CARE that FRC spreads potentially dangerous — and thoroughly discredited — falsehoods about the LGBT population. That’s just nasty — and it is a form of hate when it goes on and one, as it has under the FRC leadership.
So figure it out, people. Go back, re-read the postings about WHY SPLC views FRC as a hate group (hint — it’s not because of their beliefs), and get a clue.
Otherwise — no guns for you! (I wish, at least.)
on August 17th, 2012 at 3:15 pm
Reynardine, Ruslan, Erika, Aadila, (where’s Joseph today?), Aron, Phila –
I am bowing out for the day to finish a report, but my, the punchbowl has been just overwhelmed with turds today. Reynardine — good luck with giving out the awards. Methinks it’s going to result in a major migraine to go back through some of this silliness to ensure a full accounting of the hammerheads, hydraheads, zombies, or whatever. Good night and good luck (to quote Edward R. Murrow — or maybe it was “Good luck and good night?” I don’t know. I’m a decade too young to remember.
on August 17th, 2012 at 3:21 pm
What I’m saying is, you are the guys doing the hating. You are the guys doing the shooting. Not literally, but you’re inciting it by the language you use. FRC is Christian based. We don’t use that kind of incitefull language. We’re commanded to love homosexuals. Not just tolerate them, love them. But we believe marriage is defined as between a man and a woman. It’s not up to me to determine what 2 consenting people can do in privacy. We’re not trying to legislate that. We’re trying to protect marriage, a legal union. Why do you all hate us so? What has FRC done that is “hateful”? They Disagree with you. They support other organizations that also disagree with you. Is that ok to disagree with you? Why must you label us haters. Please get this part: I’m not talking about republicans, or conservatives or even Catholics. I’m talking about biblical Christians (for the difference, google “the reformation”). FRC is Christian. Christians are commanded to love (Note: love does not equal always agree). If you catch us not loving – you must question our Christianity. Do we not have the right to have an opinion, even if it differs from yours. Are you the only ones who get to have a legitimate opinion?
on August 17th, 2012 at 3:23 pm
Mark Potok,
The family Research has gone even further now and is threatening to sue your organization.
Hate Group Leader Threatens $100 Million Lawsuit Against SPLC http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/.....inst-splc/
Do they actually think they have a chance at winning that lawsuit?
on August 17th, 2012 at 3:26 pm
Oh lord. I’m lost. The SPLC is a hategroup? How about, liar, liar, pants on fire.
on August 17th, 2012 at 3:57 pm
Thinkaminute, that’s it. You have just won a free coupon for a Chocolate-Covered Whip Cream Turd, so you can see what your smirky hypocrisy does for the smell and taste of your other offerings.
on August 17th, 2012 at 3:57 pm
From the Washington Post: “At the news conference, Perkins singled out the Southern Poverty Law Center for putting his organization on a list of hate groups, saying that gave the gunman “a license to shoot an unarmed man,” http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....ory_1.html Tony Perkins is a liar so don’t any of y’all go out shooting folks just ‘cuz he says you have a license.
on August 17th, 2012 at 4:09 pm
FRC, Christian based or simply base “Christians”?
on August 17th, 2012 at 4:23 pm
Yeah, ZimbaZumba, it’s too bad anyone directly quotes MRA’s when they advocate domestic violence as the only way to keep women from acting like chimps.
on August 17th, 2012 at 4:24 pm
It looks like in never thinks ever we have someone who non-ironically likes Chick Tracts.
If you really were familiar with the Bible, you’d know that the Family Research Counsel is the modern equivilent of the Pharisees.
On another note, the fact that some group which tries to hade behind the First Amendment to spread lies about people is trying to sue someone for expressing a clearly protected opinion under the First Amendment (not to mention I’d love to see what happens when they actually have to prove what they claim about gay people are true) is almost enough to make me wish that Tony Perkins actually goes through with it.
Although I am thinking that the FRC is protesting too much here which makes me think that they have something to hide
on August 17th, 2012 at 4:41 pm
I just have to say this:
As I Christian I also object to people calling the Family Research Counsel a “Christian” group – there is absolutely nothing Christian about them – they are just a Republican Political group who is funded to promote Republican politicians and Republican causes. They don’t care at all about even the man in charge heterosexual marriages that they claim to – all they care about is gaining and maintaining power for their club – and increasing the wealth of the Top 1% at the expense of everyone else
Their God is not the God of the Bible – it is Mammon. Christianity is just another busines opportunity to them
They also think that you people who support them here are all a just bunch of suckers to be fleeced.
on August 17th, 2012 at 4:43 pm
Think a minute is right on target. A Christian organization labled as a hate group is ridiculous. Christians who truly follow Christ are commanded to love even their enemies. Those who claim to be Christians and hate their brother are not the real thing. Those who lable others as “hate groups” are making judgments about them. I thought people are to be judged based on their actions not on their beliefs. We do have freedom in this country to believe as we choose.
on August 17th, 2012 at 4:52 pm
Thank you for standing up to the attacks. Don’t back down. The SPLC is a critical organization in fighting hate, so naturally there are going to be attempts to discredit and malign. Groups like the FRC spread hate and misinformation and are labeled hate groups because they are hate groups. They deny any responsibility for antigay violence, but one guy gets shot in the arm and they freak out. No remorse for the murders, or the suicides, or the discrimination that they share at least part of the responsibility for. GLBT groups have been too quick to distance themselves from this act. I think it’s pretty much a given that no civilized person would condone the shooting. What they should be saying is that gay, lesbian, and transgender citizens live under threat of violence every day; that groups like the FRC incite violence and discrimination, are getting all worked up over this one act of violence, but think nothing of the violence that many of us face on a regular basis.
on August 17th, 2012 at 4:58 pm
“The FRC is not a hate group” and they say that pedophilia is a homosexual problem and all homosexuals should be exported from the United States.
What a good example of Christian love and values.
We want to thank the FRC for showing the entire country exactly where child molestors come from, that being the ranks of all homosexuals in the United States.
And I thought child molestors came from the devil. Thank you FRC for showing me the way.
No my friends, they are not a hate group. Because they’re Christian.
on August 17th, 2012 at 5:31 pm
“FRC is Christian based. We don’t use that kind of incitefull language. We’re commanded to love homosexuals. Not just tolerate them, love them.”
O2 in, CO2 out.
OK, Think a Minute, do you believe that the position of the FRC official mentioned in the article, who holds that homosexuals should be exported from the United States, is compatible with your mandate to love homosexuals?
On another note, imagine if your neighbors suspected you of being a pedophile. Would you still feel comfortable walking in your neighborhood? Do you think that your neighbors would give you the benefit of the doubt? Do you suppose that a neighbor who saw you talking with one of his or her children might react with anger or aggression? Think a minute about which label elicits a worse reaction from people in general: “hater” or “pedophile.”
on August 17th, 2012 at 5:47 pm
Think-a-millisecond:
The point I think that you’re missing is that an organization (SPLC) that is using facts to point out that an organization (FRC) is spreading falsehoods thats intent is to deny another group (LGBT) the same rights that you are entitled to does not make them a hate group.
I’m noting that you and some others posting on here have selective memory, so please enjoy this link that points out maaany wild statements made by the FRC. At first I was going to note that the linked website actually links to the quotes on FRC’s site, but alas, someone has been housecleaning the FRC site to get rid of those pesky quotes. I’ll do some searching and see what’s in the Wayback machine. Silly wabbits still don’t get that things live forever on the Internetz! LOL.
http://www.wiredstrategies.com/frc.html
on August 17th, 2012 at 9:55 pm
IF the Southern Poverty Law Center is to be considered responsible for this ONE act of violence against the bigots, then the Family Research Council is responsible for all the anti-gay violence that has occurred due to its campaign of lies and hatred.
on August 17th, 2012 at 11:27 pm
Do we not have the right to have an opinion, even if it differs from yours.
Yes, you have a right to your opinion. And those of us who think your opinion is stupid, ignorant or evil have precisely the same right to express ourselves, whether it hurts your tender feelings or not.
Also, if your opinion is based on misinformation that you persist in believing even after it’s debunked, we have the right to question not only your goodwill, but also your intelligence.
And of course, if you insist on denying an entire class of American citizens their basic human rights based on a mere “opinion,” those of us who disagree have an even greater responsibility to speak out and challenge your assumptions, your motives and your honesty.
On a more personal note, the idea that anti-gay bigots should be spared from criticism while they lob insults and slander at my friends, neighbors, family members and fellow citizens really pisses me off. It’s been said a thousand times, but apparently it needs to be said again: Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from criticism. If you feel it’s important to persecute and marginalize a minority group, at least be good enough not to whine like a spoiled baby when sensible people call you a bigot.
on August 18th, 2012 at 12:26 am
So a “traditional” (why do people think that word is a magic shield from criticism?) Christian group that sincerely believes that everybody who doesn’t accept their preferred variety of superstitious dogma will be TORTURED FOR ETERNITY is whining — because it got labeled as a “hate group” because it knowingly uses demonstrably FALSE statements to demonize and condemn a group of human beings, and actively supports governments locking them up in cells and even KILLING them for the crime of engaging in consensual sexual activity with a member of the same sex. Seriously.
And now they’re blaming the organization that lists groups of people who do things like this for telling people about them.
They’re trying to pretend that state-sanctioned murder and BEING BURNED ALIVE FOREVER are the same thing as calling the FRC a “hate group” and explaining why you’re doing so.
How much more out of touch with reality can you possibly get?
on August 18th, 2012 at 12:49 am
Quote from internet evangelist Bill Keller, in threatening to sue the SPLC: “Groups like the Southern Poverty Law Center give license to individuals who oppose a Biblical worldview to take whatever actions they deem fit, even acts of violence, to silence those they disagree with.”
What a brilliant analysis! The SPLC has such a long history of advocating violence against people who disagree with it, and promoting hatred of such people by spreading flagrant, demonstratably false information about them. Look at these quotes from the SPLC!
“People we disagree with have higher rates of sexual promiscuity, sexually transmitted diseases, mental illness, substance abuse, and domestic violence; disagreeing with us qualifies as a behavior that is harmful to the people who engage in it and to society at large.”
Or this:
“The evidence shows … that relative to the size of their population, people who disagree with us are more likely to engage in child sexual abuse than are people who agree with us.”
Or this:
“Gaining access to children has been a long-term goal of people who disagree with us.”
If the SPLC would stop promoting falsehoods which promote hatred against people who disagree with them, it would not be considered a hate group. Right?
Oops, sorry, I got my acronyms mixed up.
on August 18th, 2012 at 7:46 am
“What I’m saying is, you are the guys doing the hating. You are the guys doing the shooting.”
Really? Do you say the same thing when conservative pundits talk about murdering leftists over and over? Do you condemn them when dozens of people carry out such attacks? Have you even bothered to see how many right-wing attacks have been carried out since 2008?
” Not literally, but you’re inciting it by the language you use.”
Examples please.
“FRC is Christian based. We don’t use that kind of incitefull language. We’re commanded to love homosexuals. Not just tolerate them, love them.”
But you don’t, and it shows.
” But we believe marriage is defined as between a man and a woman. It’s not up to me to determine what 2 consenting people can do in privacy. We’re not trying to legislate that. We’re trying to protect marriage, a legal union.”
1. It doesn’t matter what you believe marriage is. The historical record shows that marriage has changed radically over time, and for the majority of that time it has definitely NOT been 1 man and 1 woman. That is clear even from reading your Bible.
2. Your opinions on marriage don’t give you the right to deny people their civil rights.
3. How will gay people getting married hurt marriage?
“Why do you all hate us so? What has FRC done that is “hateful”? They Disagree with you.”
What you have done that is hateful is deliberately spread lies about the people you supposedly “love.”
” Is that ok to disagree with you? Why must you label us haters.”
If the thing that people disagree with happens to be tolerance and civil rights, then yes, you’re haters by default.
” Please get this part: I’m not talking about republicans, or conservatives or even Catholics. I’m talking about biblical Christians (for the difference, google “the reformation”). FRC is Christian. Christians are commanded to love (Note: love does not equal always agree).”
Look, nobody cares about your definition of “Biblical”. If you lived biblically you’d be fine with polygamous marriage and concubinage.
“If you catch us not loving – you must question our Christianity. Do we not have the right to have an opinion, even if it differs from yours. Are you the only ones who get to have a legitimate opinion?”
Who is trying to take your right to an opinion? The right to express your opinion is counter-balanced by the right of others to criticize it. Moreover, when your opinion is that some people should be denied basic civil rights, and you use lies to demonize those people, people may rightly call you haters.
Stop acting like you’re persecuted and exercise some responsibility for a change.
on August 18th, 2012 at 8:33 am
Ain’t karma a bitch?
on August 18th, 2012 at 9:36 am
I actually posted a comment on a Catholic website that openly promoted the notion that the SPLC granted a license to kill; it also whitewashed the context surrounding the FRC. I asked if anyone on that site understood why the SPLC has done what it has. I made sure to post an another one right afterwards explicitly condemning the shooting. Sadly, though my comment was actually posted, everyone else just ignored it and piled on the SPLC.
on August 18th, 2012 at 9:40 am
Warning – the trolls have descended. Have you noticed that, on Aug 17 a whole host of commenters descended on this forum, calling the SPLC a “hate group” and claiming that the SPLC knowingly labels groups as such to foment violence against them?
Are you also aware that there is a private Facebook group consisting of some of the very people that SLPC exposes that is dedicated to marshalling a form of “denial of service attacks” on the Web, which unleashes an army of trolls whenever one of their sacred members is attacked? Their goals are twofold: spread more lies to defend themselves and turn the argument by blaming their victims for what they, themselves, do.
Well, they’re heeeeerrrre! They’ve gotten too smart to match their posts word-for-word, but their claims are always identical.
In fact, the SPLC only designates an organization a hate group after extensive research and documentation – and their reasons are clearly enumerated on the SPLC site for all the world to see.
And to my friends, the organized trolls, you seem to have missed the point. Telling the truth is not hate. It’s the lies and demonizing that you people do that get you branded for exactly what you are – organizations dedicated to spreading hate. If you can deny other people their rights as part of the process, well that’s just icing on the cake to you.
These people are despicable, and I’m glad that the SPLC is here to call them out for their perfidy and the harm they cause.
on August 18th, 2012 at 2:28 pm
“LAWSUIT! That’s the path forward. I hope the FRC sues the SPLC for every dime they have and seizes all their property and they’re put out of business.”
This would be a public relations nightmare for FRC, the single dumbest thing they could do, it’s doubtful they’d ever recover from such a debacle, it’d be another Dover.
It’s bad enough that you’d be giving the SPLC an unlimited neutral forum to present 30 years worth of the FRC’s public statements, newsletters, policy positions, and falsified research associating a minority with disease, violence, and pedophilia, pursuant to no legitimate political goal.
But you’d also be giving them power to subpoena internal candid communications between FRC officials, which are littered with racial, sexual, and homophobic slurs and in which they express without a publicity filter their extreme hatred and desire to exterminate or mass incarcerate or mass deport all homosexuals.
Finally, out of the 600-700 politically/religously-motivated violent assaults and murders against gay people each year, dozens of these are carried out by persons who are subscribers to the FRC newsletter. The SPLC would get to bring each one of these cases before the court and show the overlap between the perpetrator’s reliance on FRC-supplied data to justify his actions.
on August 18th, 2012 at 2:44 pm
I have a simple question for anyone who thinks the FRC is not a hate group.
What legitimate lobbying purpose is served by knowingly fabricating false studies that associate a minority group with pedophilia, disease, violence, and treason? How is that in any way pursuant to a legitimate political goal?
on August 18th, 2012 at 2:49 pm
DO ALL OF YOU REALLY THINK THIS POST-POST-PASS YOU ALL ARE DOING IS GOING TO HURT US???
We were here before you brought your non-sense to this blog and we will be here after you are gone.
All you did was give people like “Annie” and NWOslave company for the weekend.
You want to call yourselves Christian, and say we are the devil. And you can’t disprove what the FRC said about homosexuals. Pedophiles come from homosexuals???
Got news for you good Christian people. That’s hatespeech.
Like it or not, when you go back to your churches, with your AK-47s in the basement, and extra bibles in the janitor’s closet, we’re still going to be here.
The SPLC is still going to be here. And you, are going to be memorizing “Red State”, reading your picture bibles, with pop-ups of your prophets and scratch and sniff communion wafers, and say death to the SPLC and all homosexuals in the world.
I have given time after time of biblical example of where the bible encourages love between man, woman, and all, but you don’t seem to get it.
You don’t want to get it. The Follower of Christ tells us not to judge, but when the FRC says that homosexuals should essentially be deported, who is the one being judgmental.
So then you get me. I’m the guy who says what everyone else is thinking, and I’m thinking, when you mix communion wine and xanex you get the FRC.
This is not the opinion of the SLPC, this the is the opinion of Joseph, exercising his right to free speech. And I’m telling you all that the FRC doesn’t know a damn thing about being a good Christian.
I don’t doubt that there are good Christians in the FRC. But I highly doubt the FRC is where you will go to get your path to Heaven.
on August 18th, 2012 at 4:21 pm
Did you know that God hates? I guess you will have to add God to your hate list:
Psalm 5:5, “The boastful shall not stand before Thine eyes; Thou dost hate all who do iniquity,”
Psalm 11:5, “The Lord tests the righteous and the wicked, and the one who loves violence His soul hates.”
Lev. 20:23, “Moreover, you shall not follow the customs of the nation which I shall drive out before you, for they did all these things, and therefore I have abhorred them.”
Prov. 6:16-19, “There are six things which the Lord hates, yes, seven which are an abomination to Him: 17 Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, 18 A heart that devises wicked plans, feet that run rapidly to evil, 19 A false witness who utters lies, and one who spreads strife among brothers.”
Hosea 9:15, “All their evil is at Gilgal; indeed, I came to hate them there! Because of the wickedness of their deeds I will drive them out of My house! I will love them no more; All their princes are rebels.”
God hates sin. But, He does not punish sin. He punishes the sinner. Sin cannot be tied up and thrown into a fire. It cannot be put in a box or glued to a stick. It is rebellion. It is rebellion in the heart. It is breaking God’s Law. Sin occurs inside the heart and mind of people. Therefore, God must punish the sinner. Why? Because He is both Holy and Just and the person who sins offends God. God’s Holy and Just character will not allow Him to ignore this offense. Why?….
God’s Law is Perfect
When God said, “Let there be light,” it happened. When He commanded that the oceans be, they came into existence. God’s word is powerful. What He says is never futile, empty, or without power.
The Law is a reflection of God’s character. It is pure and perfect. It is powerful. The Ten Commandments reflect God’s holiness and justice. These commandments are not without punishments. A law without consequences is only an empty slogan.
To sin is to break God’s Law and offend His character. To sin means to challenge His character and authority. It means you go against His word. But God is not a liar. His word is true. He has said He will punish the lawbreaker.
But, praise be to God, that while we were yet sinners, Jesus died for us (Rom. 5:6). There is no way we can appease God. That is why God became one of us (John 1:1,14; Heb. 2:17), to take our place and become sin on our behalf (2 Cor. 5:21). Therefore, people have two options:
Trust Jesus, God in flesh, as your savior and put your faith in the sacrifice that He made on the cross and in nothing you do.
Reject the cross and let the penalty of the Law fall upon you.
Either God pays, or you do — forever. Which will it be?
“For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,” (Heb. 10:26). If there is no sacrifice available for you, then God’s wrath abides upon you because He hates sin and your sin is not removed (John 3:36). Trust Jesus alone or the wrath of God will abide upon you forever.
The sobering fact is that God is so holy and righteous that He hates the sinner (Psalm 5:5; Lev. 20:23; Prov. 6:16-19; Hos. 9:15). Some say that we should say that God only hates the sin but loves the sinner. But, the above scriptures speak contrary to that. But it is also true that He is love (1 John 4:8). It is better to accept the love of God found in Jesus than to reject it and suffer His wrath.
on August 19th, 2012 at 10:00 am
Joseph, I would actually probably like a picture Bible with pop-up prophets and scratch-n-sniff communion wafers.
Granted, I collect pop-up books, so that would be more a curiosity than a religious item, but even so!
on August 19th, 2012 at 10:33 am
Thanx for the sermon, Rev Linda, it was properly boring. And now, all of you talking about SLAPP suits against SPLC, I hope you like Rule 11.
on August 19th, 2012 at 11:59 am
If a conservative, white male carrying a Ben and Jerry’s ice cream cone walked into SPLC and started screaming how he hated their politics and fired a shot, I’m sure SPLC would not be rushing to blame Rush Limbaugh, Fox News, etc., for any incendiary rhetoric or fostering “hate” toward those with whom they disagree.
No, SPLC is a truly objective organization with no ties to the left or right and no political agenda. The way it reacted to the Loughner shooting is pretty much the same as it reacted to the FRC shooting.
And certainly, SPLC doesn’t encourage “hate” toward any group because labeling an organization as a “hate group” would not encourage hatred toward such group.
Nope, no blood on the hands of SPLC! Nothing to see here, move right along and let’s get back to bashing those violent, dangerous Tea Party activists.
on August 19th, 2012 at 12:53 pm
Aaron, eat lthe same mushrooms as they do and it becomes a pop up book.
on August 19th, 2012 at 2:35 pm
Sam,
Interesting… Now if only I liked mushrooms! ;D
on August 19th, 2012 at 4:09 pm
Linda, so essentially your point is that God would not be very fond of the Family Research Counsel whose entire stock in trade is telling malicious lies about people?
Oh sorry, I forgot – lying is okay if you pretend to be Christian.
on August 19th, 2012 at 4:34 pm
THIS is why I’m not doing the Sputnik awards. There’s too many complete nutcases and morons to list as winners, particularly after this tragic event occurred, and ALL the jacka**es descended upon us. I can’t POSSIBLY lay my usual smackdown upon all of them… So I’m gonna do a COLLECTIVE beatdown. You are ALL idiots, jerks, and delusional, and you ALL need URGENT psychiatric care for whatever childhood issues cause you to be so intensely insane and stupid. Get the f*** out of here until you study the issues with an OBJECTIVE mind and can argue logically, not emotionally.
…I can’t wait until things cool off so I can begin hitting people individually again. >_<;;;
on August 19th, 2012 at 6:17 pm
To Christians who have written in saying that any group that calls itself “Christian” can’t be a hate group…Really? The Westboro Baptist Church, that wonderful organization that pickets the funerals of fallen soldiers, saying that they are killed as part of God’s judgment against the U.S. for tolerating homosexuality, calls itself “Christian.” So did Jim Jones and his People’s Temple — the ones who committed mass murder/suicide in the jungles of Guyana. For that matter, Hitler and his Third Reich cronies also claimed to be Christians.
Do the rest of us here judge YOU or the millions of other Christians we know and love because there are groups that choose to make their own, negative interpretations of the Bible, either because they drift into mental illness or because pushing certain specific teachings — even to the point of lies and distortions — helps them fulfill a largely political agenda by whipping up a prejudiced base? I know that I don’t, nor do any of the other regular posters here.
One can call oneself anything — and perhaps you don’t care for homosexuals or the idea that they are able to live openly. But is an organization truly Christian if it intentionally vilifies with lies and misinformation those who are LGBT? Hitler and many of his cronies SAID that they were Christian, and they demonized Jews using many of the same types of lies that FRC is using against the LGBT folks. We know how that ended — but I don’t think that anyone here would consider the Third Reich’s actions to be Christian. FRC is willing to spread lies — so how Christian can they be?
If you agree with their other teachings and advocacy, and believe they have value, then ask them to drop the lies. They don’t have to endorse homosexuality–if they regard it as a sin and state this as an opinion, that’s their right.
on August 19th, 2012 at 6:27 pm
Linda — thanks so much for the tutorial on running a “fear-based” religion. Who needs all of that love and spirituality when you can just scare and intimidate those who buy into (or, in the case of kids, are indoctrinated into) religion.
I know many Christians who gain strength, compassion, and wisdom from their religion. They aren’t into the whole “fear-based” thing. Ultimately, anyone who is mentally healthy recognizes that fear doesn’t lead to the sorts of transformative experiences that elevate a person and help him or her lead a “better” life in any real sense of the word.
Fear, of course, is also a great way to engender hate, which is why many of us as well as SPLC objects to FRC’s lies about LGBT folks.
on August 19th, 2012 at 9:00 pm
Guys, this week is *truly* overwhelming.
First of all, a big Group Hug Plush Sharkie for each of us who have tried to explain to these various Hammerheads why their proposed lawsuits against SPLC won’t fly.
Then the Big Rock Candy Mountain to Coral Sea for staying sweet, but firm, in the face of all this.
Joseph gets the Iron Knuckles again, for his vigorous and valorous defense of decency.
We will always admire Ruslan, but for reasons explained previously, the statue idea floated by Aadila isn’t feasible.
To all the smirky hypocrites who cover their carpiness with the sweet smell of sanctimony, a coupon each for a Chocolate Covered Whip Cream Turd. To paraphrase an old Spanish song:
Just pretend it’s a brownie, and it’s sure to taste fine
With lots of vino, vino, vino, with plenty of good wine
No particular award to Anar/Annie. Give s/him sawdust, and s/he abuses it. But of course, s/he will take part in the following group award:
The Hydra Hammerhead, for the great innumerable caravan of mean dumbs that have shown up, and
A free DARVO oral hygiene kit, consisting of Fels Naptha toothpaste, Clorox mouthwash, and special miniature toilet brushes to brush with. Used diligently, it cures the patient of the persistant halitosis that comes from constant oral defecation.
For her loving care of her alleged patients, a Nurse Ratched pin to Kim, and if this goes the way I fear it will, a little Death Angel.
To every SLAPP plaintiff, a ten-foot silver…uh…bullet, with “Rule 11″ inscribed thereon
And to all us worthy comrades, named and unnamed:
Lots of vino, vino, vino, and plenty of good wine !
on August 19th, 2012 at 10:49 pm
The SPLC is one of the worst hate groups of all time, branding any group they disagree with as a hate group. The may have started out with good intentions (yeah, right), but they have become a group that takes advantage of every tragedy that they can as a fundraiser for their coffers.
on August 19th, 2012 at 11:05 pm
LINDA: I know some bible verses too. By the name Linda, I take it you are a woman. Please see below in relation to your station among the faithful. And since you’re speaking in a man’s place, enjoy being hated by God as a sinner, just like those homosexuals.
1 Corinthians 11:3-10 – But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ. 4 Every man who has something on his head while praying or prophesying, disgraces his head. 5 But every woman who has her head uncovered while praying or prophesying, disgraces her head; for she is one and the same with her whose head is shaved. 6 For if a woman does not cover her head, let her also have her hair cut off; but if it is disgraceful for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, let her cover her head. 7 For a man ought not to have his head covered, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man. 8 For man does not originate from woman, but woman from man; 9 for indeed man was not created for the woman’s sake, but woman for the man’s sake. 10 Therefore the woman ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels.
1 Corinthians 14:33-35 – for God is not a God of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints. 34 Let the women keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but let them subject themselves, just as the Law also says. 35 And if they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church.
So Linda, as per St. Paul – shut up.
on August 19th, 2012 at 11:43 pm
Linda, I had to read you post again. If God hates the sinners, then, why did Jesus only keep company amongst sinners? I have a few more verses for you:
For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us (Romans 5:6-8).
You ever seen a hen’s love for her chicks? This one don’t sound like hate to me either:
For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us (Romans 5:6-8).
Oh, and here is my favorite:
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life” (John 3:16).
“In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins” (1 John 4:10).
God hates sinners so much…that he sent his son to die for us. WOW. I have one more verse for you:
“Blessed be the Lord God my strength, for the teacheth my fingers to war, and my hands to fight.”
You’re just another Christian, that uses the Bible for her own cause. You need to tell the truth. Instead of posting on this board, and pointing your fingers at the bad guys so you can feel good about your discrimination. So what does that make you? Good?
According to St. Paul, from your Bible, you shouldn’t be talking at all anyway. So according to the Letters to the Corinthians, you’re just as much as sinner as anyone on this board. Have fun with that.
on August 20th, 2012 at 1:23 am
“God’s Law is Perfect”
Yup, that’s why he had to punish his creation for eating from the tree, why he had to destroy the earth in the flood, and why he had to give different sets of laws to the Hebrews, and why he eventually had to send himself, to be sacrificed to himself, so as to save us from himself. PERFECT!
on August 20th, 2012 at 8:48 am
“I wish the SPLC could see that they are on the same side as the NRA, and that many on their dead victims list should have been able to defend themselves.”
Sam Molloy, you may be right. But I must ask you: does what you defend with guns have any lasting permanence? Will your guns stop the violence that is in the world or will they add to it?
on August 20th, 2012 at 8:58 am
The FRC has published statements and continues to hold to them that gay people are pedophiles, and that the ultimate goal of gay people is to normalize sexual assaults of children.
Every credible study into this topic has shown the FRC to be entirely false. Criminal statistics themselves show this to be false. So, what we have is an organization that is making an accusation of a very horrible crime against a group of people without proof.
That to me sounds like hate.
Would anyone at the FRC like to be accused of being a pedophile without any proof, simply because someone happens to “believe” it to be true? There are plenty of Christians who have been pedophiles. Should we consider all Christians this way?
on August 20th, 2012 at 9:08 am
“Those who lable others as “hate groups” are making judgments about them.”
I don’t think I agree. I think judging the individual in the sense of “judge not, lest ye be judged” is a different form of action than documenting the activities of organizations whose intent is to cause harm. If we applied your standard, we might as well do away with the police, courts, and entire system of laws because any effort to stop someone from harming someone else would have to be considered judging.
on August 20th, 2012 at 9:22 am
By attacking Christian groups who disagree with its philosophies, the SPLC is itself an intolerant hate group. I believe the Nazis and the Klan have the same approach. Where is the SPLC’s tolerance? If the SPLC had any concept of Chrisianity, it would know that hate is not a part of any true Christian doctrines. Being anti-gay or anti-anything else does not equal hate. Perhaps someday you will see that in unjustly condeming others, you condemn yourselves.
on August 20th, 2012 at 9:22 am
Linda,
Interesting collection of verses.
I wonder if you remember the most important one of all. A little thing called the “11th Commandment”?
The Hebrew god may indeed be wrathful. But you, my dear, are not the God.
on August 20th, 2012 at 10:05 am
I’m curious as to why some Christian’s feel it is their right to worry about what other people do. Are their lives so dull that they give themselves the false believe that it gives them the right to infringe upon a complete strangers life? Shouldn’t they be more concerned with getting their own souls through the pearly gates than worry about the stranger standing next to them? Far be it from me to pretend I’m smarter than the next person but, it offends me that some Christian’s claim to “pray” for those whose belief system is different than theirs. Further, while homosexuality “may” be a sin to some Christians, where do they get off telling the rest of us that we’re wrong and they’re the only ones who are right? Additionally, these same Christians get all fake outraged when they believe that someone else is telling them what they can and cannot do within the confines of their homes, yet they have no problem with telling others what they can and cannot do within the confines of their own homes.
I wish they would just save their prayers for themselves – It is abundantly obvious they need them more than I do …
on August 20th, 2012 at 10:17 am
Aadilla, according to the absolutely repellant Chick Tract “Lisa” when Christian men rape children it is due to their wives not submitting to them for sex and working outside of the home [this mysognic attitude, btw is the extraordinarily offensive aspect of "Lisa" that the male reviewers fail to pick up on] That same tract also has the wife improbably saying that she was raped as a little girl by a gay uncle so its okay that the husband was raping their daughter (really, I am not making this up – the claim that gay men rape little girls is just too stupid to be offensive) because she wasn’t being sufficiently submissive to him and giving him whatever he wanted sexually. Plus, it was all Satan’s fault anyway.
And sadly there are actually people – “good Christian men” all according to their pastors – who actually do try to blame their wives not being sufficiently submissive to them for why they raped their daughters [or sometimes sons]. More likey they are not only disgusting icky pervs who want to rape children but disgusting mysognists who blame women for everything as well. But its all part of the intersection of male supremacy and Chrstian supremacy (and often white supremacy as well)
On a legal note, the motion to declare it all being Satan’s fault is almost never successful :)
on August 20th, 2012 at 10:22 am
Several observations, will try to keep it brief.
First, many of our “new” visitors/sockpuppets are employing the No True Scotsman fallacy with their selective description of who is and who isn’t a “Christian”.
As for Linda, I am reminded of the quote attributed to Chief Seattle, possibly apocryphal. “Your religion was written on tablets of stone by the iron finger of an angry God”. You may think that is a compliment but it is anything but.
on August 20th, 2012 at 10:59 am
For those willing to delve into the perverse world of Chick Tracts, here is the official website.
Another site that collects the tracts Chick Comics is unofficial and has the craziest tracts easily identified.
Welcome to the madhouse
on August 20th, 2012 at 11:00 am
Lets all pretend that SPLC is intellectually honest and consistent, shall we? First, they only “watch” hate groups on the right by their own admission. Lets ignore common sense and history and pretend bad guys and hate are exclusive to the right. Lets WHOLLY ignore the Occupy movement, a left-wing/Socialist/Marxist organization and their hate speech, their criminal activity. Let’s pretend that being on the Left equates to being tolerant, benevolent, and let’s be really honest, CORRECT. Let’s pretend the millions persecuted and/or killed by the Left via Socialists(Hitler)/Marxists(Pol Pott)/Communists(Stalin, Castro) didn’t happen. Let’s pretend the shooting at the FRC wasn’t committed by a left wing hater. Why? Because SPLC gets to define all issues, define all of the bad guys, and gets to, in an amazingly broad brush stroke, and one that denies history, pretend that the right are always the bad guys. Why? Because without this re-write or denial of history, SPLC would alienate their dominant contributors, the Left. Let’s skip right to the issue of boys being molested and abused by Catholic priests. Let’s call the huge disgrace of the Catholic Church a “pedophile” problem. It is NEVER called a homosexual problem by the SPLC. Forget for a moment that the overwhelming number of those abused, over 90%, are male. Forget that almost NONE of the victims are female. Focus on the age of the individuals, SPLC so we can label the Catholic disgrace a “pedophile” problem. To do otherwise, to acknowledge the Emperor is naked and the 300 lb gorilla is sitting in his lap, would force you to be honest and consistent and simultaneously outrage and alienate your other dominant sources of contributions, the GLBT community.
Honestly, I don’t see a lot of homosexuals being beaten, threatened, or killed any more than the rest of us in the U.S. As a matter of fact, if injustice, persecution, beatings and intimidation are truly the concern of the SPLC as measured in numbers, why not take up the cause of inner city African-Americans. In any major U.S. city, they are intimidated, beaten, raped, robbed and killed by a gang warfare culture from which few escape. Many more, in overwhelming numbers, suffer and die annually from that twisted culture in any ONE major U.S. city than gays suffer annually in the entire U.S. combined. Be honest though, even though the overwhelmingly larger injustice occurs there, they aren’t comprised, as the Gays are, of the highest per capita income segment of our population. The Gays are wealthy, they make up your base, and being intellectually honest and consistent would dry up their contributions like this summer’s drought in the Midwest, now wouldn’t it? Follow the money, you’ll know which side the SPLC will come down on. They know from whence their bread is buttered.
on August 20th, 2012 at 11:04 am
I have a solution to this problem. We might need a Congressional inquiry. It doesn’t matter if it is the Family Research Council, Planned Parenthood, and other left winged and right winged groups that enjoys the privilidge of disseminating information to support their arguments on abortions, hate crimes, civil rights and other issues. Let’s see who’s is truthful to the American people.
on August 20th, 2012 at 11:08 am
Ed,
Those are some pretty strong opinions. Did you substantiate them with documented evidence, research, hard statistics, or anything that resembles an “intellectually honest” approach? No. You did not. You expressed OPINIONS, not facts.
All that I ask of you is make the effort to base your opinions on facts, and not to go around looking for facts to support your opinions and you might end up with something meaningful to post here. But don’t post opinions and call them facts, eh? That’s just not “intellectually honest”.
on August 20th, 2012 at 11:41 am
aadila,
I expressed only widely known demographic and historic facts that are common knowledge to any educated adult. Thousands are killed annually in the U.S. as a result of inner city gang/drug violence. Fact. Untold and told Millions killed by Leftist regimes, fact. Priests overwhelmingly choose boys, not girls as their victims. Fact (Google it). Ask anyone in marketing and they will tell you, gays as a group represent the highest per capita incomes (by and large no children). Don’t believe them, Google it. Following the money will provide the answers to most geopolitical quandries and is obviously the driving force behind the half truths and biases of the SPLC. If the SPLC quoted the percentage of boys to girls molested in the Catholic Church (easy to find if you are truly interested), they would have to conclude it is a dominantly a homosexual predator problem. If you’re truly interested, which by your reluctance to correct even one of my historic and/or demographic references you do not appear to be, in intellectual honesty, then point by point do just that. I quoted only the biggest most widely known historic and demographic examples to illustrate my point(s). You just expressed an “opinion”. Are you saying Priests molest girls and boys equally? Are you saying gays aren’t, as a group, one of SPLC’s largest contributors? Are you arguing that SPLC isn’t a left-wing group when they say “Keeping an Eye on the Radical Right” at the top of this very page? Why aren’t they keeping tabs on hate regardless the side? Are you arguing they aren’t biased against anything on the right and turn a blind eye to injustice of the Left with that kind of a statement? Do I really have to document that to you, when these are widely accepted truths or do you just WISH the things I’ve alluded to were wrong so you could continue to live in the delusion that you are intellectually honest? Putting the FRC in the same list with the KKK? Really? Do you believe that to be true? Do you believe that to be intellectually consistent, fair, or honest? I believe the SPLC is a hate group, is anti-Semitic and anti-Christian but I would not be so reckless as to categorize them next to the KKK, Skinheads, etc. It is beyond irresponsible to say that…………..
on August 20th, 2012 at 11:58 am
Ed, let’s assume for a moment that you know what you are talking about.
If you did, then you would know that, outside of the Catholic Church scandals, the overwhelming majority of paedophile’s victims are young girls. Priests tended to molest boys because until the early ’80s only boys could be altar servers, which would give then unsupervised access to their prey. That is the formula that you seem to be missing; predator, prey, access.
I doubt you will understand the point, but paedophilia is not synonymous with homosexuality, despite what you pastor told you.
on August 20th, 2012 at 12:07 pm
“I expressed only widely known demographic and historic facts that are common knowledge to any educated adult.”
Then it should be all the easier for you to provide links to websites that document your information. After all, it was once a widely known demographic and historic fact and common knowledge to any educated adult that “bad air” caused malaria.
Shall we dismantle this argument a bit and look at its flaws?
“Thousands are killed annually in the U.S. as a result of inner city gang/drug violence.” There are more causes here than you mention. There is violence that you do not mention that is not caused by the factors you mention. Therefore your facts are incomplete.
“Priests overwhelmingly choose boys, not girls as their victims. Fact (Google it). ” It’s your argument, you do the googling. By the way this fact has critical criteria which have already been mentioned on this thread (i.e. that boys have more contact with priests). In any event I don’t understand your point of citing this fact. Could you state it?
“Ask anyone in marketing and they will tell you, gays as a group represent the highest per capita incomes (by and large no children).”
Provide the facts, not the opinion. It’s your argument, let’s see your facts.
“If you’re truly interested, which by your reluctance to correct even one of my historic and/or demographic references you do not appear to be, in intellectual honesty, then point by point do just that.”
I am not going to waste my time trying to substantiate your own erroneous opinions. If you provide objective facts to refer to, I will be happy to discuss those. But you never supported your opinions, just claimed that I could find the facts if I want to. Your job, buddy, not mine. It’s your opinion and your argument. You do the googling.
“I quoted only the biggest most widely known historic and demographic examples to illustrate my point(s). ” You quoted without citing the source. That is not intellectually honest, that is just making things up to suit your opinions.
“Are you saying gays aren’t, as a group, one of SPLC’s largest contributors? ” Facts please, not passing the buck.
“Are you arguing that SPLC isn’t a left-wing group when they say “Keeping an Eye on the Radical Right” at the top of this very page?”
No, I am saying SPLC is a non-partisan group that keeps an eye on hate crimes, including right wing, left wing, and anything in between.
“Do I really have to document that to you, when these are widely accepted truths or do you just WISH the things I’ve alluded to were wrong so you could continue to live in the delusion that you are intellectually honest?”
Yes, you really have to document that if you wish to take it out of the realm of opinion and into the realm of facts (i.e.. intellectual honesty). Just because Glen Beck likes to talk about “intellectual honesty” it doesn’t actually make him intellectually honest.
“Putting the FRC in the same list with the KKK? Really? Do you believe that to be true? ”
Yes. Different motives, different methods, different beliefs, same ignorance, same harm, same hate.
“I believe the SPLC is a hate group, is anti-Semitic and anti-Christian but I would not be so reckless as to categorize them next to the KKK, Skinheads, etc. It is beyond irresponsible to say that…………..”
You could say that. But you can’t actually document it like the SPLC has.
So buddy, your entire argument has been revealed to lack factual basis. If you go back and provide facts to discuss, then we can begin to have an intellectually honest discussion.
on August 20th, 2012 at 12:40 pm
Ed,
Line breaks: learn how to use them.
All I saw was ‘blah, blah, blah I’m going to write an unverified screed against the EVIL HITLERIAN SOCIALISTS at the SPLC blah, blah, blah.’
Nice try there, pal.
on August 20th, 2012 at 12:49 pm
Ed — you are an idiot. I don’t even know where to begin in addressing your willful stupidity, but among other things, Hitler and the Nazis were NOT socialists. They used the term “socialist” in the name of their political party (which they took over from others) because at the time, the term “socialism” was viewed favorably. However, except for confiscating (that’s stealing for you if “confiscating” is too big a word) the wealth of the Jews, they didn’t take private property or nationalize industry or any of those “socialist” things. Please look up the term “fascist” in the dictionary.
As for the rest of the twaddle you vomited out onto your screen, read some of the earlier posts, which spell out why FRC received the “hate group” designation it so richly deserves.
I am through with you.
Gregory — thanks for the link to the Chick tracts. I have indeed seen some of these hideous things — and as Erika and aadila have already commented, the writer seems strangely stuck in the 1960s and 1970s, although in the Occult tract I just read, someone cleverly used a slightly less dated name — Ashley — for the embattled teen.
Those things remind me of greatly expanded Goofus and Gallant cartoons from Highlights for Kids — if the writer dropped acid before he (or she) created them.
Reynardine — I’m sorry — I have violated my Big Rock Candy Mountain award with my response to Ed, but I simply reached a breaking point — especially when he just HAD to refer to Hitler as a socialist. Honestly — I’m amazed that some of these people can walk across the street without help. “The stupidity! Ah! The stupidity!”
Joseph — thanks for taking in the fear-monger Linda. What a dark, dark place she inhabits!
on August 20th, 2012 at 12:57 pm
“Lets WHOLLY ignore the Occupy movement, a left-wing/Socialist/Marxist organization and their hate speech, their criminal activity.”
The Occupy movement is a broad based movement which has people from all over the political spectrum. I’m not particularly fond to say it, but a large part of that movement has been infiltrated by Ron Paul followers, who call themselves paleoconservatives. In any case, since Occupy is not an organization and has no stated ideology, you can’t call it “Marxist” or “Socialist.”
” Let’s pretend that being on the Left equates to being tolerant, benevolent, and let’s be really honest, CORRECT. Let’s pretend the millions persecuted and/or killed by the Left via Socialists(Hitler)”
Hitler was not a socialist and certainly not left wing. The values espoused by the NSDAP are more or less the same as those espoused by conservatives:
Extreme patriotism
Fear of the other/exclusion of people who aren’t real “Germans/Americans”
Glorification of the military
Persecution fantasies
A firm belief in moral decay
Traditional gender roles and “family values.”
Suspicion and hatred of foreigners
An affinity from strong leaders
Romantic ideas about rural life and small communities, contrasted with urban decay and rot.
Right wing.
“Marxists(Pol Pott)/Communists(Stalin, Castro) didn’t happen.”
Pol Pot abandoned Marxism by the time his people got into power. And who drove them out of power? Communist Vietnam. Who supported them when they started a guerrilla uprising? China and the US. Anyway, how is any of this relevant in the US today?
on August 20th, 2012 at 12:58 pm
Maybe its time the SPLC changes the word law to LIE or Liberal, because a lot of people who have posted on here see through the liberal agenda the SPLC has these days. a complete 180 Degree turn on the values which the group was first started..
I have no problems with Tony Perkins making the claim that the people responsible are those at the SPLC. I have seen peoples names on the hate groups page removed after information on that person or group turned out to be false.
SO WHAT if the group is a Christian group that says marriage should only be between a man and a woman. does the bible not say the same thing?
I also agree with some posts that the real hate group is the SPLC because if you dont believe with EVERYONE of their agendas, then you qualify as a person who hates. even if its not true.
on August 20th, 2012 at 1:06 pm
Goebbels was also concerned about people confusing the NSDAP for an actual socialist party(seeing as how they were backed by major industrialists and the aristocracy). In a letter he wrote:
“Do not let yourself be confused by the text of our posters … Of course there are catchwords like ‘Down with Capitalism!’, etc.; but these are unquestionably necessary, for under the flag of ‘German national’, or ‘national’ alone, you must know, we should never reach our goal, we should have no future. We must talk the language of the embittered socialist workmen. … or else they wouldn’t feel at home with us. We don’t come out with a direct programme for reasons of diplomacy” (Letter of Dresden Nazi Party leader to the industrialist Fritsche in Weimar, reprinted in Mowrer, Germany puts the clock back, p.150, cited in R Palme Dutt, op.cit. p.191).
on August 20th, 2012 at 1:09 pm
Ed, here is some fun numbers using once again the extremely useful for statistical purposes Advanced Search Feature of the Iowa Sex Offender Registry (which as far as I know is the only state which provides such a useful search feature) As before here the the link so you can run the searches yourself – http://www.iowasexoffender.com/
Number of registered sex offenders with a victim aged 0 to 7 – 889.
Number of those who are male – 878
Number of male sex offenders with a male victim aged 0 to 7 – 213
Number of male sex offenders with a female victim aged 0 to 7 – 734.
And before you pounce that the numbers add up, that means 69 had both male and female victims. That means that 144 had exclusively male victims and 665 had exclusively female victims.
Of the 11 female sex offenders with a victim in that age group
7 had male victims
6 had female victims
That means that 2 had victims of both gender. That furthermore means that 5 had exclusively male victims in that age group (heterosexual activity) and 4 had female.
The other age criteria they have for children is 8 to 17 (this would be the age range involved in the Catholic Priest cases):
There you have 3726 total offenders:
Of the 3619 males:
385 had male victims
3310 had female victims
That means that 76 had victims of both gender.
Which translates as 309 with exclusively male victims and 3224 with exclusively female victims.
There are 107 female offenders with victims aged 8 to 17:
79 have male victims (that means heterosexual activity)
31 have female victims
3 have victims of both genders – which means 76 of the offenses completely involved heterosexual activity.
AS the numbers show, the offenses overwhelmingly involve heterosexual activity. Overwhelmingly the victims are female and the perps are male.
Those are actual numbrrs from an official government source. Its only one state, but unless you can come up with a good argument to show that Iowa is not typical in regards to teh sex offenders (besides Iowa requiring all juvenile offenders including a few who were 11 at the time of their offense which is completely riduculous to register as sex offenders)
on August 20th, 2012 at 1:22 pm
CoralSea, the proper way to remain polite to someone like Ed is to say “with all due respect, sir, you are so completely stupid that to call you an idiot is an insult to all of the other idiots out there”
Its polite because you said “with all due respect, sir,” And you didn’t actually say he was an idiot.
That concludes this edition of Erika’s Charm School :)
on August 20th, 2012 at 1:27 pm
@james
I’ll take the bait.
“SO WHAT if the group is a Christian group that says marriage should only be between a man and a woman. does the bible not say the same thing?”
Exactly. So what. The issue with the FRC is not the political opposition to extending the same civil liberties to gay people as to straight people. Although that position is considered ludicrous and unfair by most of the supporters of the SPLC, that position is not what earned FRC a listing as a hate group.
So in case you failed to let that sink in during any of the previous exchanges on this thread, or in case you forgot to look at what it was you were criticizing in the first place — the FRC hate file on this site — I will repeat it for you and hope it sinks in this time.
The FRC has published statements accusing people of a horrible crime of sexual assault of children, simply by being gay. If you are straight, is it appropriate to say you are a child rapist simply becaue you are straight? Well as you see from Erika’s research, and as we’ve been saying all along, straight people commit far more child rapes than gay people. So if you are straight, that must mean you are a pedophile, right?
What part about making false accusations of pedophilia do you not understand?
on August 20th, 2012 at 1:34 pm
James, actually the Bible says that men can have more than one wife and in the case of King Solomon marry – or at least have sex with – hundreds and maybe even thousands of women. The Bible also says that it is your obligation to marry your brother’s wife if he dies without producing children.
So why are you sinning against God by only having one wife?
The Bible also says that a man could select a woman to marry by raping her and that the woman who was raped must marry her attacker or be put to death.
The Bible also supports arranged marriages including arranging marriages for small children.
In fact, the Bible does not give a woman any control at all in deciding who she would marry.
So, if your wife chose to marry you rather than being forced, why did you violatie how the Bible says to pick a wife?
The Bible doesn’t say anything at all about gay marriage. Sorry, nope. It says all sorts of horrible things about straight marriage however.
on August 20th, 2012 at 1:36 pm
Now then, Ed.
Are you going to do the intellectually honest thing and admit your opinions were wrong? Or are you going to claim that the SPLC must be in cahoots with the Iowa sex offender registry because the numbers are in conflict with your “intellectually honest” opinions?
And thank you, Erika for courageously wading through that disgusting stuff for a noble purpose.
on August 20th, 2012 at 1:44 pm
CoralSea and others who’ve misquoted and corrected things I never said,
Much easier to misquote history, name call, demean and dismiss those with whom you disagree. Never on debate team apparently for most of you. They wouldn’t accept, You’re an idiot.” as a legitimate rebuttal. I vehemently disagree with many here but I do not call them “idiots”. Look up idiot in the dictionary coralsea. To play along with your mean and inaccurate term, I couldn’t compose sentences if it were true, and further it is no longer part of the modern vernacular, being perceived as a viscious and slanderous derogatory term.
Yes, Hitler did nationalize the banks and industry. Fact. Do I need to google that for you? Provide links? Name calling won’t change that.
Where are all of the links to refute my statements for those who demand I provide them? Certainly all of your time writing paragraphs would have been better spent giving me the apparently voluminous links to evidence lurking on the internet?
Those who name call and then incorrectly quote history and fact to refute those with whom they disagree belong as contributors to the SPLC. You’re welcome to stay. I just came here to see if this place was as bad, as slanted, as intellectually dishonest, intolerant of dissenting viewpoints and outright cruel as I was told. I’m sort of surprised it was worse. My left leaning friends are all very nice people with whom I just happen to disagree. They don’t resort to name calling, not feeling threatened with our differences.
Tell you what, I’m leaving for good. I know, breaks your collective heart. You all can go on and pretend that a blog called “Keeping an Eye on the Radical Right” is an unbiased, neutral, intellectually honest stance. Re-write history and claim Hitler didn’t nationalize banking and industry. Claim that the reason Priests molested primarily boys was a crime of convenience and not perpetrated by homosexual males on male children. I know that sadly, the predominant victims of molestation in society are girls/females, but such is not the case as related to the Priesthood. They were homosexual by proximity not by preference? Really? Are you their lawyer? Wow, that was a real stretch. Name calling is the refuge of those who have no facts or logical argument to back their contentions. I don’t need to provide links and references to fact which is self-evident except for those who re-write history to back their premise. Logic, one of the most important of the philosophies, is obviously one that was missed in the education of many on this blog.
aadilla is the only semi-balanced, reasoned voice on this entire blog, with my apology to other I might have missed. The rest just pile on, villify, call names, condescend, and dismiss contradictory viewpoints.
Idiot, walking across the street on his own power out, never to return. (this is where those who feel threatened by fact and/or different opinion can sigh in relief, feel safe to pile on, and return to your so-named “watch out for the evil right” stance without fear of logical rebuttal)
Have a nice life.
on August 20th, 2012 at 1:53 pm
So Afro-American culture is twisted to you, Ed? A culture that led to the creation of most musical genres that exist from blues to jazz to house music to hip-hop is twisted? To me, you’re the one who is really twisted along with the rest of your fellow newcomers/sockpuppets.
on August 20th, 2012 at 1:57 pm
“SO WHAT if the group is a Christian group that says marriage should only be between a man and a woman. does the bible not say the same thing?”
There are many Christian groups which say that, yet they are not listed as hate groups because they don’t engage in the same activity as the FRC. And for your information, no, the Bible does not say that. In several parts of the Bible polygamy and concubinage are endorsed. If a girl is raped, she is to be married to her rapist. Try actually reading the Bible some time.
on August 20th, 2012 at 2:07 pm
Heterosexual males commit most of the sex crimes against children. Tony Perkins is a heterosexual (?) male. Therefore Tony Perkins must be a pedophile, and must be dedicating his life to erasing all laws prohibiting sex with children…
Can anyone at the FRC spot the fallacy?
on August 20th, 2012 at 2:38 pm
I zonk out a couple of hours, look what I miss!
Eddie, dear, I told you to educate yourself on this matter before engaging in any more oral defecation, and I even gave you a widely-recognized reading list. Did you do any of that? Why, no! You came over to this thread and did this! And look at the trouble you got into!
Coral Sea, what Erika was saying was that, when dealt such an oponant in court, one refers to him as “learned opposing counsel”. It is perfect manners, and every judge knows what you *really* mean. By the same token, you keep your Big Rock Candy Mountain designation. And that mountain, I point out, has as many jags, crags, and precipieces as any other mountain.
Aadila, you have fortunately lost enough of your former sweetness yourself to show yourself a formidable combatant. Erika, I think you’ve earned yourself a diamond Sharkie. And as for our iron man, Ruslan, I’m sorry we couldn’t come up with the statue formerly contemplated, but if someone can donate a good headland, we can carve into it a pair of somber and penetrating eyes, by which you shall be remembered, as this headland shall thereafter be designated as “Ruslan’s Outlook”.
As for you, Ed, and you, James, you shall each receive a DARVO Oral Hygiene Kit, which contains each (1) tube Fels Naptha Toothpaste, (1) bottle Clorox Mouthwash, and (1) DARVO toothbrush, a cute little toilet brush, downsized (though not by much) to fit your open mouths. Now, please go use them before you return to human company.
Damn, it gets tiresome, doesn’t it?
on August 20th, 2012 at 2:39 pm
Sorry, Ed, truly…but you are still an idiot.
Erika — although I do go out of my way to be polite to most of those with whom I deal, that doesn’t mean that I can’t call out the idiots when they richly deserve it. Also, “all due respect” is one of the phrases that I never use because it smacks of condescension. While condescension and sarcasm certainly have their places, the direct route (idiot) can sometimes be the best route!
on August 20th, 2012 at 2:41 pm
Damn, is he really leaving for good? It must be that oral hygiene thing.
on August 20th, 2012 at 2:45 pm
“aadilla is the only semi-balanced, reasoned voice on this entire blog, with my apology to other I might have missed.”
well thanks i guess but i rather consider myself somewhat off kilter and un-enlightened compared to most of the regular commentators.
on August 20th, 2012 at 2:51 pm
to A.D.M
OK, I had to come back to see who would pile on, so I violated my statement not to come back. This WILL be my last comment.
As a jazz/blues afficianado with a huge collection, I just can’t let that last comment stand. Why oh why does everyone here name call constantly. Sock puppet? Really? What if I used all of the derogative names used by the Right to dimiss you as something less than a thinking human with feelings, family, hopes and fears?. It’s used by fascist/communist/left/right alike to control their unthinking disciples to de-humanize enemies…… much easier than reading what was said. I said the gang/drug culture was twisted and brutalized and killed African Americans in the inner-city. Much more so than whites in the inner city, and I’m sure some knucklehead here will argue I should provide links to verify that, though none of the major contributors here seem to burden themselves with that requirement.
Blues/Jazz/Rock are brilliant and inspired gifts of black/Afro/Cuban culture. They are my music of choice and I won’t, in this bastion of free thought and tolerance (NOT!), have my words mischaracterized yet again.
Wow, for a group that espouses tolerance of differing viewpoints, the contributors here don’t appear to practice what they preach. It is definitely mob violence, name calling, and grab the torches and pitch forks here!
Sock Puppet, out.
on August 20th, 2012 at 3:17 pm
Ed, that is one hilarious goodbye note. Classic in so many ways. However, I am betting that you will be back before my comment is published.
on August 20th, 2012 at 3:30 pm
“With all due respect” is a phrase used to an insufferable, bigoted, and crooked judge, whe s/he is going to rule against your client no matter what. They know what you mean, but they can’t get you.
on August 20th, 2012 at 3:32 pm
Ed, brush your teeth.
on August 20th, 2012 at 3:40 pm
Ed, I hope you don’t leave. You seem to have something to say. We may not agree with you and sometimes these little darlings don’t play nice, but then again, look at what we’re up against. Why just the other day after a tough love session there was one particularly recalcitrant individual who saw we were right after all. Come back with facts next time. Maybe you too can be given a new perspective and find joy in actually sorting through your political fears only to find hope.
on August 20th, 2012 at 3:57 pm
“Yes, Hitler did nationalize the banks and industry. Fact. Do I need to google that for you? Provide links? Name calling won’t change that.”
No, he did not. The NSDAP was financed by some of Germany’s ruling industrialists; it was a very obscure party before it secured their support. Industry remained in private hands, and they made a killing thanks to the Nazis. Even when things were “nationalized”, they were put in private hands.
on August 20th, 2012 at 4:16 pm
“I absolutely insist on protecting private property… we must encourage private initiative” -Adolf Hitler
on August 20th, 2012 at 4:28 pm
The claim that fascists and the Nazis were left-wing or socialist just proves the claimant’s historical ignorance. Of course they seemed like socialists if you took some of their statements and propaganda at face value. Then again they also claimed to be peace-loving victims. THAT WAS THE WHOLE POINT! In those days if you wanted the support of the working masses you HAD to pull them away from social democrats and Communists, so you had to appropriate the language and symbols of socialists.
The fact is that the actual economic policies of fascist nations were not far removed from those of other capitalist nations of that era. This was a time when all capitalist governments were stepping in to do something about the global depression. Turkey under Ataturk and later Inonu also used five year plans, yet no serious historian would tell you that Turkey was either fascist nor socialist.
on August 20th, 2012 at 4:43 pm
I would ask those who think that the Nazis were socialist due to the word “socialist” in NSDAP, do they also think that North Korea is either democratic or a republic, given the country’s name is the Democratic People’s Republic of North Korea?
on August 20th, 2012 at 5:31 pm
I approve of Ruslan’s interpretation because the American standard interpretation is exceptionalism gone awry. There are really two kinds of socialism: what the Americans think socialism is, and socialism.
on August 20th, 2012 at 10:16 pm
Hey Ed, when you come back and read this, you still haven’t proven Erika wrong on your statements regarding marriage in the bible. Sounds more like sexual slavery to me.
I keep telling you people to stop reading the Old Testament. There is a reason it’s called old. You stone your kids Ed?
on August 21st, 2012 at 6:43 am
Reynardine is exactly right about what “with all due respect, your honor” means
CoralSea is probably also right that its snarky and condesending.
Of course, I’m probably actually too nice to be an effective lawyer ;)
on August 21st, 2012 at 7:32 am
Oh Ed, I had no idea that you were so sensitive. Realistically no one has used idiot, moron, and imbecle in their clinical sense since the term “mental retardation” came into widespread use in the 1940s. Instead, “idiot,” “moron,” and the sadly underused inbecle have simply become generic terms to mean “stupid” unhingeed from their original meaning. Of course, now the phrase “mental retarded” has gone out of approved use because kids figured out that “retarded” shorted to “retard” or even “tard” made such a good insult. And now kids are basically calling everything except for persons with intellectual disability “retarded” so they decide to change the term “mentally retarded” to intellectually disabled. Personally I think that people are delusional if they think that changing the name will stop kids coming up with an insult based upon the name – in fact, I suspect right now on the playgrounds of America (the land of the Erikas, don’t you forget it so if you aren’t an Erica or an Erika or even an Ericka, you are only a guest here) kids are coming up with new insults. I wonder what the next term for persons with intellectual disability will be.
Would you be happier if we used the proper clinical phrase “Ed is a person with intellectual disability”? :P
on August 21st, 2012 at 8:41 am
We could always describe Ed as an oligophrenic.
on August 21st, 2012 at 9:36 am
Erika –
I did not mean to level personal criticism at you in regard to the “all due respect” thing. In my professional dealings, I avoid such statements (and also the viciously bland, “I know how you feel,”) because they are often seen as smarmy put downs. It’s easier to say, “That isn’t really true, and here is why….”
In the case of Ed it was pretty clear that he had no interest in a fact-based discussion. Hence the “idiot” declaration. Not pretty, but not playing along with someone who clearly wasn’t going to play.
We get a lot of posters who do appear to be people with whom one can engage–or at least swap definitions and reasoning. Ed didn’t strike me as one of them. If I was rash–sorry.
BTW — according to a blurb on talk2action.org, the shooter attended a very strict — and overtly anti-gay — private religious high school. The columnist mentioned this not to blame the high school, but to rebut Perkins assertion that he was the product of an “atheist” or “anti-Christian” upbringing. Since the article on talk2action.org indicated that the high school was overtly anti-gay (kids couldn’t attend if any family members were gay, for example — this was in the rules), and the shooter had been volunteering at an LGBT outreach organization, he may have been conflicted or troubled about his own identity. Of course, this doesn’t justify the use of violence–especially shooting an unarmed man–but it does perhaps cast some light on the shooter’s complex past.
on August 21st, 2012 at 12:43 pm
CoralSea, its important to remember that judges can throw you in jail for contempt* so it was very important that attorneys develop a way to tell a judge that they were totally and completely wrong without being thrown in jail. And I don’t take it personally :)
* btw, I almost got jailed for contempt once – was having a bad day in court and felt awful so my self censorship impulse was gone and I said something really bad about the judge following an adverse ruling. Fortunately, I said it softly and in an almost empty courtroom and the judge understood that I was having a bad day so he didn’t throw me in jail.
on August 21st, 2012 at 1:37 pm
Erika — fortunately, I am not an attorney, but I work with, in many ways, a tougher, if less arrogant, crowd — the public. When I am dealing with people who are angry or concerned about an environmental issue, they are super-sensitive to any statements that smack of “managing” them (You’ll wish that you could be safe in jail if you ever accidently say something like, “I’m sure we can all agree…).
So yes — I am aware of the backhanded put-down, and in fact, used to quite like using them, since I hung out with the fox hunting crowd back when I was a stupid young thing. Also, I’ve had a bellyful of seeing them used by smug and supercillious pricks as they screw over other people and think they are being so clever about it. Some of my English relatives also just revel in insulting the hell out of other people oh-so-politely, when in fact they are being extremely petty and vicious. So they’ve lost their attraction for me through the years — although I do enjoy having my characters zing them around periodically in my recreational fiction writing. They make for sparklingly entertaining dialogue.
on August 21st, 2012 at 1:55 pm
So was I. In a circuit where judges tend to stay on the bench till they fall off, there was a singularly corrupt and vicious old fossil…and later, an equally vicious and corrupt coke-snorting drama queen…but further I say not.
on August 22nd, 2012 at 9:51 am
Reynardine, almost going to jail fighting agaisnt corrupt judges is downright noble.
almost going to jail due to enaging in snide backtalk to a reasonable judge is downright stupid. It also shows that I obviously did not learn my lesson from all the times I got in trouble in school and home as a child for doing the same.
CoralSea, one of the reasons why I have such a knack for saying the wrong thing at the absolutely worst time is that I am a brutally honest person. So I can’t really pretend to think that someone has something worth saying if I think they are completely clueless. I try to engage politely since I really am a nice person, but sometimes that brutal honesty just comes out (like against poor Ed there).
Between those two traits, it proved that I obviously was not met to be a trial attorney.
on August 22nd, 2012 at 10:26 am
@Erika
Even though you were not thrown in jail (thank goodness, jails are awful places) I invite you to consider that we are all to some degree prisoners of our own minds.
By the way this whole attorney-judge thing sounds perfectly passive-aggressive. We should be allowed to call the judge a fool in a democracy, without fear of being clapped in irons.
on August 22nd, 2012 at 11:11 am
Aadila, you’re a sweetie, but you shan’t get the Big Rock Candy Mountain award because that requires, besides sugar, solidity and firmness. When sugar is blended with too much sweetness and light, it is called cotton candy (or candy floss, if you’re a Brit). Since I believe your core is not cardboard, try not to be taken for that. Thank you.
on August 22nd, 2012 at 11:48 am
Reynardine, my dear, I can’t win the Big Rock Candy Mountain award because as lovely as that would be, especially since it came from someone as nice as you, as a boodist I already discern that i AM the Big Rock Candy Mountain award.
on August 22nd, 2012 at 12:42 pm
Holy sh&t, folks –
I didn’t mean to start some big deal. I think all of the regular posters to this site do a fine job in communicating. Okay — I was rude for calling Ed an idiot. But you know what? We all have days when we draw the line at silliness. Erika — I love the fact that your posts are frequently a breath of fresh air in their directness as well as with their cogent delivery of information. Same goes for Reynardine and Ruslan. Aron weighs in well, too, with humor and excellent insights. And both Joseph and Aadila bring passion as well as, often, some unexpected views that really broaden the dialogue. As for Moderate Mike, Sam Molloy, Gregory, and other more occasional posters, again, they always join the fray with wit and intelligence (even if I don’t always agree with Sam on the gun thing).
What I like is that I think all of us at least try to address some fairly complex problems, and we also do try to engage those “visitors” to this blog who hold views that we may not subscribe to. That is a rare and precious thing in this world.
Words have a lot of power, and I think most of the regular and semi-regular posters here not only use them well, but also exercise admirable restraint against some extremely nasty (and often cut-and-paste style) attacks. Although I believe that it is important to hear what EVERYONE has to say, especially when people with whom I don’t agree manages to provide some insights into why they believe what they do, there are times when the venom is just too ridiculous not to dismiss in the rudest possible terms.
P.S. — I have to say that although I find the whole men’s rights movement to be a bit off the wall — and some of those guys are downright frightening — I did find engaging some of them, and learning more about their views, to be interesting and enlightening, and I think that, with some of them, at least, we reached a meeting of minds. (And frankly, from the public involvement standpoint, some of the issues raised on one of the websites I visited were valid and gave ME pause to think.)
Unfortunately, most of the folks who came out of the woodwork with this whole FRC imbroglio are so fearful, angry, and brainwashed (and some are just plain incapable of logical thought), that trying to engage them was a lost cause. Hopefully, some of the more hateful ones will gorge themselves on Chik-Fil-A and drift off into nightmares about atheists getting elected to Congress.
on August 22nd, 2012 at 1:34 pm
Aadlia, I don’t have a problem with saying that an attorney can’t call the judge a fool in open court – attorneys should know better and our system cannot work if that goes on. I was 100% wrong in what I did.
Of course, the fact that I could have been found in summary contempt and send to jail for 10 days without a trial for it is also rather wrong.
Personally I found that lying in bed telling my stuffed animals about the mean and stupid judge was much safer :)
on August 22nd, 2012 at 3:23 pm
Poor dear.
on August 22nd, 2012 at 3:27 pm
CoralSea you shouldn’t mention Ruslan. He might …hear you. Boo!
on August 22nd, 2012 at 4:28 pm
Aadila –
I am functioning on the assumption that Ruslan sees and hears all…
on August 22nd, 2012 at 8:22 pm
Aadila, Ruslan, like the rest of us, is mortal.
Meanwhile, a friend whom I helped out a little, dropped off a cheap, but tasty, bottle of Tempranillo. And now for vino, vino, vino, and plenty of good wine!
on August 23rd, 2012 at 9:43 am
Rey,
No matter how cheap it may seem, I’ve yet to come across a bottle of Tempranillo that WASN’T tasty, you lucky dog :D
(I’m kinda jealous!)
on August 23rd, 2012 at 9:44 am
How do we know Ruslan is mortal? One can no more disprove it than prove it. Some propaganda pamphlets claim he is ten feet tall.
on August 23rd, 2012 at 10:36 am
Aadila, Ruslan on one occasion expressed a desire for brandy and a cigar while perusing some matter. I suspect he drinks coffee, too. These are mortal attributes. Perhaps he even shaves. About his height, I know nothing.
on August 23rd, 2012 at 10:38 am
Aron, I would teleport you a glass if I could.
on August 23rd, 2012 at 11:00 am
I heard about that, Rey and it prompted a moral crisis for me too. But I think he only did it to understand the bourgeoisie a little better. Either that or someone offered it to him. I heard he drinks tea with a single sugar cube clenched between his teeth.
on August 23rd, 2012 at 11:11 am
Aadila, millions of people to the East and South of the Danube do that, including some of my own relatives (with Turkish coffee, too). The trick is getting special hard-milled sugar cubes, because Domino Dots dissolve too fast. You can get them on line, and for coffee, they even make chocolate covered ones. For us Americans, though, the best stopgap is a Brach’s hard candy. For coffee, I prefer the caramel ones; tea drinkers go for lemon or mint.
on August 23rd, 2012 at 11:12 am
Just from reading the comments I see here, it’s no wonder Tony Perkins feels that this group has labeled the Family Research Council as a hate group……many of you on here are doing just that. Maybe the Southern Poverty Law Center doesn’t do that, but people who comment here do. That is so ridiculous that just because a group believes in traditional marriage they are labeled a hate group. I challenge any of you to show me where you got the idea that they think homosexuals are child molesters, etc……all the things some of you have mentioned. Their goal is to strengthen traditional families and to help families raise their children in a wholesome, Christian environment. They do not hate gay people and care about the destructive life style they are living. You may not agree with them on their beliefs but unless I’m wrong this is still America and we have our First Amendment rights. But telling lies about people and causing violence is irresponsible and unpatriotic. You need to find out what the Family Research Council really stands for before you start telling lies about them and calling them a hate group
on August 23rd, 2012 at 11:19 am
Aadila,
As my great-grandparents drank their tea in that manner, I have always attempted to follow suit. However, the sugar cube simply dissolves and I end up eating the sugar.
Perhaps that’s the point?
And Rey, when I’m smoking my cigars, I’m more of a Bourbon or Single Malt guy. Never really got into the brandy game.
on August 23rd, 2012 at 11:27 am
Trish, when you misspoke, you spoke truly. FRC is a hate group. If you don’t believe me, just ask them in Uganda and Jamaica.
Marry whom you will- if anyone would.
on August 23rd, 2012 at 11:29 am
“That is so ridiculous that just because a group believes in traditional marriage they are labeled a hate group. I challenge any of you to show me where you got the idea that they think homosexuals are child molesters, etc……all the things some of you have mentioned. ”
Tricia the publications are documented by the SPLC. Although the FRC website has been scrubbed of these statements, there has never been a retraction. There is proof on this site. Sorry if that conflicts with what you have been told. The FRC is not considered a hate group merely for trying to prevent same sex family members from getting hospital visitation and insurance rights. But you are probably right that most rational people here see no problem with same sex marriage.
on August 23rd, 2012 at 11:54 am
Tricia,
Perhaps if you took the time to actually READ the SPLC’s position on the FRC, instead of the knee-jerk reaction you just made, you might see that the group actually has a point.
And for the record, I don’t HATE the FRC. I STRONGLY DISDAIN it. Hatred is for those with small, weak minds.
on August 23rd, 2012 at 11:58 am
By the way Tricia it is pretty obvious that people who hate gays oppose same sex marriage. Are you saying that because you feel it is ok to oppose same sex marriage at the FRC that it is also ok to hate gays?
To hear you tell it there are no people who hate gays at all, but the violence and hate crime statistics prove you wrong. Why does the FRC not take a stronger position against hating gays, since you all seem to claim hate is wrong? Could it be that the reasons Tony Perkins has for opposing same sex marriage are the same reasons as people who hate gays and want to harm them?
As an organization whose followers were commanded by Christ to above all love one another, your apathy regarding hate crimes against gays is very, very revealing, do you not agree?
on August 23rd, 2012 at 12:52 pm
There’s an account that Ruslan has the power to turn any reactionary into a pool of goat piss.
on August 23rd, 2012 at 1:32 pm
No, Aadila, that’s just plain wrong. Otherwise, the population of the world would be smaller, and the sea level would be higher- much higher.
on August 23rd, 2012 at 1:55 pm
Tricia, under many “traditional” definitions of marriage, you would be legally the property of your husband with no rights of your own.
on August 23rd, 2012 at 2:12 pm
What about the time he ran amok with a soda spritzer at the John Birch Society confab?
on August 23rd, 2012 at 2:31 pm
Aadila, that’s silly. I don’t think he’s old enough to be that person.
on August 23rd, 2012 at 3:50 pm
“Happy Birthday to Me!
I belong in the Sea!
With the rest of the Corals –
And the Sea Anenomes!”
Sorry — It’s my birthday and I couldn’t resist!
on August 23rd, 2012 at 5:05 pm
Happy Birthday, Coral! Wish I could teleport you a glass of Tempranillo!
on August 23rd, 2012 at 6:34 pm
By the way, Coral Sea, your birthday is two days before my mother’s and four days before my jurat brother’s.
on August 24th, 2012 at 6:26 am
Happy birthday – um, yesterday I guess :)
those of us who live along or near the coast are not fond of the idea of the sea level rising. More and more powerful hurricanes from global warming aren’t exactly a joy either
Speaking of hurricanes, did anyone hear about how the Republicans are worried about the possibility of a hurricane hitting during their convention? I guess either they do not believe that Pat Robertson is actually able to redirect hurricanes with prayer* or they know that God is not likely to be happy at the “rob from the poor, give to the rich” policies they are promoting.
* Pat Robertson really claimed that he can pray hurricanes away from striking Virginia Beach. Of course, more rational observers would note that due to the prevailing currents and the fact that the North Carolina coast sticks out so much that hurricanes almost never have direct strikes in Virginia. Others would also note that it was you know, kind of greedy to pray that his house would be safe and then ignore the fact that the hurricane caused massive amounts of death and destruction elsewhere. I think he blamed that on liberals, homosexuals, and loose women (possibly Satan and voodoo as well). Since we all know that you can tell there are no homosexuals or loose women in Virginia Beach due to its close proximinty to the world’s largest naval base and a major port since sailors are well known to not like sex (hi Joseph!).
on August 24th, 2012 at 9:20 am
Erika, I live in Florida, at the rarfied altitude of thirty-one feet, which is anyhow seventeen feet higher than when I lived on Coral Sea Road. For this reason alone, I am glad Ruslan is not out turning reactionaries to goat piss.
Rush Liimbaugh, however, thinks Obama created Hurricane Isaac and sent it to Tampa just to spite Republicans.
on August 24th, 2012 at 10:07 am
Thanks for the birthday wishes!
Reynardine — I know a lot of people with late August birthdays for some reason. In fact, once when I was working as a technical editor at a publishing company (back when the IBM Selectric was all the rage!) out of the 9 members of the editorial staff, 8 had late August, early September birthdays (and the guy who didn’t wasn’t a very good editor). This, of course, made us all Virgos, who are known to be picky and perfectionistic, which is something one wants in an editor. I am not into astrology (nor were my editorial team partners), but we always thought it was quite the coincidence!
Erika — Yes, I am just evil enough to be rooting for Isaac to turn into a hurricane and at least give the Republicans a scare (although I would rather that it not cause any real damage or hurt anyone). I understand that they are moving Romney’s acceptance speech from Wednesday to Monday in case things do take a turn for the worst. They (meaning the GOP) may be able to commit heinous acts of voter suppression, but Mother Nature can certainly dampen their convention! I guess it’s one of those, “what goes around, comes around” things.
on August 24th, 2012 at 10:21 am
Happy (belated?) birfday, Coral!
I hope you get all the adorable little fishies you deserve :)
on August 24th, 2012 at 11:29 am
Happy one, Coral!!
on August 24th, 2012 at 4:43 pm
CoralSea, according to the National Weather Service’s latest storm track, the storm is supposed to reach hurricane strength but be off shore (and make landfall in the panhandle). That is the bad news – the good news is that as I learned last year that even a tropical storm can knock power out for a full week.
But unfortunately, I can imagine that Pat Robertson will soon be saying that God caused the hurricane to go past Tampa to bless the Republicans. Of course, if the hurricane does hit the Republicans, I suspect it will be attivbuted to them nominating Mitt Romney who after all as a Mormon is a member of a Satanic cult according to a very large percentage of the Republican base (that btw is why I believe that Obama will actually win by a large margin). Or they will follow Rush Limbaugh’s lead and claim that President Obama can control the weather Either that or the preachers for profit will say nothing. I don’t recall Pat Robertson saying anything about Isabel or Irene..
BTW, in 2015 watch out for Hurricane Erika – great name choice :)
on August 25th, 2012 at 6:32 pm
Happy belated birthday, CoralSea!
Sorry I couldn’t say it earlier!
on August 26th, 2012 at 2:11 pm
Your editorial about the FRC shooting said you had never advocated killing or violence, but in a subtle way, I believe you have. Your strategy (along with other gay rights advocates) is to label any who disagree with you as ‘haters.’ Jesus shows that the root cause of murder begins with anger toward your brother (Mt 5:21-26). Labeling him as a hater encourages anger against him. True Christians will love their neighbors without exception and will hate only their own sin, not their neighbors sin. Jesus had the harshest words for the religious leaders who condemned others, but felt they were OK. These leaders were filled with pride and were keeping others from entering God’s kingdom. None of us is worthy of Jesus sacrificial death for us that offers forgiveness and eternal life to all who will come to him. Please reconsider the language of hate.
on August 26th, 2012 at 9:59 pm
Erika — I fear that you are correct regarding the way the hurricane story will be “spun” (oh — a pun, sort of. You know, because hurricanes spin, or, ah, have “circulation.”) Hopefully Hurricane Erika won’t cause a severe rampage when it occurs. The hurricane that bore my actual name was sufficiently destructive (hideously destructive, as a matter of fact) so that the name was retired. I guess that’s good, because at least I don’t have to worry about my name being applied to some monster that wipes out the Gulf at some future time.
Kiwiwriter, aadila, Aron, Reynardine — thanks for the nice birthday wishes!
on August 27th, 2012 at 8:38 am
Does anyone rememberJames Dobson and Focus on the Family ran an ad for Christians to pray for rain on Barack Obama’s speech at the DNC in Dever? Sunny! Then four days later the Republican convention was postponed because of Hurricane Gustav?
Whoops.
Now Isaac is causing trouble again for the Republicans. RNC chair Ken Jones said that he will turn to FEMA for help. FEMA!!! “Isaac” by the way is a Hebrew name that means “He will laugh”.
Oh dear, how droll.
on August 27th, 2012 at 9:03 am
Aadila,
I believe one of my Youtube commenter friends put it best, regarding Isaac:
‘God hate the GOP.’
Hee hee!
(That being said, I really, really, REALLY hope that the hurricane doesn’t destroy Tampa. I’m a cigar collector, and Tampa is known as Cigar City, due to that city historically being the center of the American cigar industry. Also, I have a whole bunch of friends who live down there. And don’t even get me started on Cigar City Brewery. YUMMM!!!)
Uhm… Sorry for the long parenthetical comment there. My coffee just kicked in. Wheee!
on August 27th, 2012 at 10:01 am
According to the National Hurricane Center, Issac is turning west and making a beeline for New Orleans :(
Expect Pat Robertson – and the Pat Robertson lites of Fox News to say that the combined power of the Republicans prayers turned the Hurricane to the Godless City of New Orleans because of Voodoo or Mardi Gras or Jazz or Lil Wayne or whatever (Unspoken but understood to the racists – blacks. Unspoken but understood to the Jack T. Chick crowd – Catholics!)
CoralSea, it is most definitely a dubious honor to have a hurricane with your name. In any case, a future Hurricane Erika could cause suffiicient death and destructiveness to be retired and still not be close to being the worst namesake hurricane in my family – I have a cousin named http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/pdf/TC.....atrina.pdf
on August 27th, 2012 at 10:20 am
If Haiti was visited with destruction for making a voodoo pact (as Pat Robertson claimed), what is the sin of the clean-skirted Republicans who can’t even seem to get in the same room together without bringing down upon themselves a hurricane?
on August 27th, 2012 at 10:33 am
Oh dear. It’s because of what I was doing last time I was in New Orleans. I knew that would catch up with me eventually.
Ahhhhhh…..!
on August 27th, 2012 at 3:38 pm
Stan — sorry to have ignored you with all of the commentary about the weather. Apparently you neither read, nor understood, the previous posts about how the FRC came to be labeled a “hate” group. It wasn’t because they were Christian or anti-gay. The SPLC doesn’t label groups because of their beliefs. FRC was labeled a “hate” group because of their willful spreading of lies about gay people (like that pedophilia is mostly a gay problem, which it most decidedly is not). These types of lies help fan the fires of attacks against LGBT persons.
The FRC was called out numerous times before they were ever listed as a “hate” group for spreading vicious falsehoods that basically demonized LGBT persons, who are already a risk of being physically attacked or otherwise discriminated against. Numerous groups have debunked the fake data they peddle — but they still do it. That is why SPLC considers them a “hate” group. They can believe anything they want, but willfully spreading falsehoods that stir up passions against another class of people is anything but Christian.
on August 27th, 2012 at 3:50 pm
To all in regard to TS (or is it a hurricane now? haven’t checked lately) Isaac — I, too, sincerely hope that it doesn’t cause damage or hurt or kill anyone (it already did in Haiti, I understand, which is very sad). However, the irony is just too much not to comment on.
Even my mother, who is a very strong Christian, but who detests Pat Robertson, but also is a life-long Republican, was chuckling evilly about the irony of Isaac menacing the RNC.
I so hope that it doesn’t hit New Orleans (although we now know that if it does, it is aadila’s fault — what DID you do, my dear?) I also hope that Aron’s cigar places and favorite brewery are spared — and that they get a commercial boost from the infusion of people visiting Tampa for the RNC.
As for Erika — I understand that the name Katrina has fallen into disuse a bit since, well, Katrina. I know that I had a friend that was going to be having a daughter around that time (though up here, in Illinois), and prior to the storm, was thinking of calling her “Katrina.” After the hurricane, they opted for “Ophelia.” Happily, she is an agile child, so no one calls her “Oaf” for short! (That was her husband’s — the baby’s father’s — initial reaction. He was still pushing for “Katrina” until his mother told him that the name “Katrina” would just burden the poor little thing.)
Yes — it is always embarrassing to have your name associated with some sort of serious disaster. Actually, I think in terms of the “E” storms, something called “Enrique” would be a better name than Erika for a really ferocious storm. Not that you aren’t ferocious, but “Hurricane Enrique” sounds a lot more terrifying.
on August 27th, 2012 at 5:44 pm
There’s a slim chance New Orleans may have been just too much for one little aadila.
About which more I shall not say.
on August 28th, 2012 at 8:27 am
Aadila, as long as it did not involve Jimmy Swaggart you’re probably fine. If it did, eeeewww!
CoralSea, apparently the World Meterological Association heard you and granted your wish because Enrique is on the list for Pacific hurricanes – also for for 2015. Of course, no one other than meterologists really pays too much attention to Pacific hurricanes since they tend to head west where there is nothing much to hit.
So one year could have both a Hurricane Erika and a Hurricane Enrique – its even possible that the same storm could be both.
According to the always fun Social Security Administration baby name popularity index (the over time search is what I find to be the most interesting) – http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/babynames/#ht=2
you can see that there actually was a slight increase in ranking for the name Katrina in 2005 and 2006 but it fell off the cliff afterwards not even making the top 1000 in 2011.
Weird that the year of the hurricane and the year afterwards it actually went up in popularity.
on August 28th, 2012 at 10:22 am
If that was the case we’d could call it Hurricane Eeeewww. They could write a Chick Track about it, the only question is, who gets thrown into the flames at the end…?
on August 28th, 2012 at 1:09 pm
Aadila,
Everyone gets thrown into the lake of flames!
on August 28th, 2012 at 1:28 pm
Aadila, obviously with Jack T. Chick it would be the young woman who gets cast into the Lake of Fire when Hurricane Eeeww hits – in part its because of the mysogny which is often present in Chick Tracts. But mainly its because Jimmy Swaggart always repented following being caught committing “sins of the flesh” so obviously his name would be in the Book of Life. According to Jack T. Chick you can pretty much do anything if you ask Jesus into your heart and repent before dying.
on September 3rd, 2012 at 4:29 pm
Why does the SPLC foster hatred of Christian minorities?
on September 4th, 2012 at 12:18 pm
Tiffany,
Why does the SPLC foster hatred of Christian minorities? I sincerely believe that the SPLC does not foster hatred of Christian minorities — or anyone for that matter.
I hope you eventually take the time to sit down and let the dizziness subside. It appears to be clouding your mind.
on September 4th, 2012 at 3:34 pm
Aron it’s another one of those “you are trying to stop me from hating so you must be a hater” comments. I must admit it gets tedious. Good on you for at least trying to talk sense to a turnip mind.
on September 5th, 2012 at 12:06 pm
You’re right, Aadila: that mind wasn’t big enough to power a rutabaga. Now, did absinthe make the heart grow fonder? (I know how to make the real enchilada, by the way, but won’t try, because it might blow up) (If you infer I have some strange ancestral skills, you could be right, but I’m not about to make my living shining)
on September 5th, 2012 at 12:10 pm
Now, in my part of the state, only some women who reach a certain age become old ladies. The others become terrible old ladies.