I saw that occasionally myself in the Navy…it could be simultaneously a raceless meritocracy and a collection of savages at the same time.

Of course, recruiters are desperate to make quota, and they will find ways to haul in young men and women who promptly disgrace themselves.

I don’t think it’s as bad as it was when judges could and did sentence young men who had messed up to six months in jail or three years in the military. But I do agree with you.

More and more I believe the violence we see around us in the world begins and ends with the violence that is in our own hearts.

“It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.”
Jiddu Krishnamurti

It was immediately buried under criticism from the GOP and most military experts.

Now we’re seeing things like this plot and the Sikh shooting. It’s like the Al-Qaeda warning Bush received, all over again, except this time the perpetrators will be almost impossible to find…

This incident concerns me very greatly…the necessity of maintaining discipline and obedience to the lawful authority of the chain of command and the Constitution is essential in the US armed forces.

I can’t help thinking that there must be some connection with how our troops are being over-used in badly-designed wars, and how destructive that is to the morale and psyche. The German, Austro-Hungarian, French, Russian, and Italian armies all fell apart disastrously in World War I after years of pointless exertions, and in three of the above five cases, the national governments collapsed as well. Italy fell to Fascism a few years later.

Briefly, use of deadly force is permitted for one and only one purpose, which is defense of life from immediate danger of deadly attack. Use of deadly force in any other circumstances, is unlawful. Now I am SF-fan enough to remember the question that Robert A. Heinlein put into the mouth of “Bernardo de la Paz,” in The Moon is a Harsh Mistress: “When is it moral for a group to do something that’s immoral for one member of the group to do?” I relinquished my carry permit when I retired, but not my revulsion at my country’s misconduct.

@Mr. Zebatakis: Respectfully concur with your advocacy of use of UCMJ Article 94.

This body count includes not just well publicized wars in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan, but also proxy wars in Angola, DRC, Indonesia, Guatamala, Pakistan, Sudan and elsewhere. As well, since it is estimated that 10 are wounded and maimed for every 1 killed in military conflicts, the numbers of people harmed are actually upwards of 200 million.

Two thirds of our federal budget goes to military spending. Are we really surprised that this vast institution of violence we call the military has the capacity to turn against our own people? I don’t see there is justified killing and unjustified killing.

I just see killing.

It would save the state governments a lot of money if they’d just try these guys by Court-Martial.

The relevant section of the UCMJ is quoted below:

894. ART. 94. MUTINY OR SEDITION
(a) Any person subject to this chapter who–
(1) with intent to usurp or override lawful military authority, refuses, in concert with any other person, to obey orders or otherwise do his duty or creates any violence or disturbance is guilty of mutiny;
(2) with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of lawful civil authority, creates, in concert with any other person, revolt, violence, or disturbance against that authority is guilty of sedition;
(3) fails to do his utmost to prevent and suppress a mutiny or sedition being committed in his presence, or fails to take all reasonable means to inform his superior commissioned officer or commanding officer of a mutiny or sedition which he knows or has reason to believe is taking place, is guilty of a failure to suppress or report a mutiny or sedition.
(b) A person who is found guilty of attempted mutiny, mutiny, sedition, or failure to suppress or report a mutiny or sedition shall be punished by death or such other punishment as a court- martial may direct.