Regarding birth control in the bible and sin, there is the case of Onan. Reynardine explained that Onan’s practice was sinful due to preventing pregnancy. This is not the onanism that one normally thinks of, but again I don’t really have a grasp on that issue.

But really, it may well speak volumes of the Christian Right that they seem to think that any non-procreative sex is a sin. Not only is that view not supported by the Bible, it may well actually violate God’s Law since the Bible actually makes it the duty of a husband and wife to have sex with and even please each other. And again, the Bible actually does not ban premartial sex – severely restricts it yes, and for females, being stoned to death is a very high risk. Again, the Ancient Hebrews were not nearly as prudish as the people who claim we should follow Old Testament law claim they were.

But even though i kind of suspect that most of the Christian Taliban types aren’t actually interested in heterosexual sex, given how obsessed the the Christian Right types are about other people’s sex lives, they would no doubt be very interested in hearing how just last night i went out on a date and totally violated Biblical law:

i wore a skirt which was made of different materials than my blouse and then in an extreme act of pleasurable sinfulness ate shrimp for dinner ;)

In any case it’s pretty clear that the Islamophobes from the Christian right are condeming that which, by their own scriptures, should be put into practice to adhere to God’s law. The FRC is America’s Taliban.

Another way to get conservative Christian heads to spin regarding sex in The Bible is to point out that the Bible does not exactly condemn prostitution (in fact, its pretty clear from The Bible that under Hebrew law, prostitution – often forced prostitution for women enslaved as concubines following battles – was legal. It is also pretty easy to realize reading The Bible that sexual morality under Hebrew law only really applied to women). Even under the Christian spin of the stoning to death for being a rape victim verses, premarital sex is okay if you later get married. The ancient Hebrews of Biblical times were not nearly as prudish as the “Values Voters” would have you believe.

20 If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the young woman’s virginity can be found, 21 she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done an outrageous thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house. You must purge the evil from among you.

22 If a man is found sleeping with another man’s wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die. You must purge the evil from Israel.

23 If a man happens to meet in a town a virgin pledged to be married and he sleeps with her, 24 you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death—the young woman because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man’s wife. You must purge the evil from among you.
25 But if out in the country a man happens to meet a young woman pledged to be married and rapes her, only the man who has done this shall die. 26 Do nothing to the woman; she has committed no sin deserving death. This case is like that of someone who attacks and murders a neighbor, 27 for the man found the young woman out in the country, and though the betrothed woman screamed, there was no one to rescue her.

28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay her father fifty shekels[c] of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.

Deuteronomy(22:13-29)

Yeah, much better than those mean old Islamists. If you read closely you can hear that idiot who said women can’t get pregnant if they are really raped. Paul Ryan also made skeptical comments about “forcilbe rape”, alluding that if a woman doesn’t fight her attacker she somehow was really raped. I’m a Christian and I find that way of thinking absolutely deplorable. I love how so called “Biblical Christians” love to cherry pick Bible verses which they feel must be followed while casually glossing over the more barbaric areas and are the first to point out the most violent verses of the Koran.

Meanwhile, C.M., you are *so good!*

As such, this event can hardly be considered representative of mainstream Islam, much less anything resembling the actions of an organized state. There hasn’t been an effective government in Somalia for over two decades, with not even any kind of formal parliament until this year, nor a president until just this month.

Basically, it’s the action of extremist warlords who were probably born after Somalia disintegrated into anarchy. Also it was a boy that was killed as a bystander, not a baby, as if that makes any difference.

Your point stands.

By the way, I recall the Old Testament (Leviticus, if I am not mistaken) calls for stoning of women who are raped, so really the system of belief Alexei is referring to is present in Christianity as well. The same book, I recall, that supports the FRC’s doctrine on homosexuality. So we find extremists in various faiths.

Perhaps the only solution is to keep religion as far away from public policy as possible.

In fact, on Nov. 4, 2008, UNICEF did condemn, quite rightly, the horrifying killing of 13-year-old Aisha Ibrahim Duhulow by the al-Shabaab militia, an al-Qaeda-linked group, in Somalia.

Hasan Mahmud’s article aimed to show how the incident highlighted the barbarity of sharia. This is not an entirely unreasonable reaction to the incident, though it’s unlikely that all Muslim jurisprudents would have agreed with the judgment rendered in this case.

What does seem unreasonable is Alexei’s seeming assumption that anyone who opposes bigotry toward Muslims must endorse sharia, stoning, rape and gender-discrimination. The fact that a lot of anti-Islamic zealots like to repeat that sort of charge doesn’t make it true.

Do you remember what Jesus said about casting the first stone?

I agree its shameful that such ancient religious laws are still being followed by anyone, but don’t be deceived – the same people who are feeding you the line about how awful Islam is want to introduce Old Testament law in this country. Would you survive Old Testament law? I know that i wouldn’t :(

Why is criticizing Islam and it’s teachings considered..”hateful”
If a religion, or a system of belief, advocates punishing rape victims, or openly states that women are inferior, are you to ignore it, just because it is a religion?

Does opposing a system of belief that advocates human rights violation make you hateful?

Does opposing a system that says if a woman claims she was raped, she can only prove it by producing four male adult Muslim witnesses (no females, since they are intellectually inferior) or if the accused confesses. otherwise she is punished for having sex outside of marriage.

Before someone claims that this is a misrepresentation of Islam. it is not

The Quranic word “Zina” means sexual relation between a man and woman not married to each other. It is called adultery for married persons and fornication for unmarried ones. The Quran severely prohibits Zina. Muslim jurists also included rape in the category of Zina because in rape cases such sexual relations “between a man and woman not married to each other,” even though forced on the victim, have taken place.

So, all the anti hate, anti islamophobe people do answer me,
is turning a blind eye to this, or criticizing the people who condemn it really anti hate? or are you so caught up in being politically correct that you would defend a system of belief that advocates stoning to death children who are sexually abused?

Complete with sex change…here strictly to derail the discussion!

So, Annie/Jason…do tell us how the Holocaust never happened!

Then tell us how the Russian people greeted their Nazi invaders with flowers!

Then tell us how Norman Rockwell sided with Hitler!

Then show us your proof that the white man is superior to the black man!

And tell us again how you’ll prove it to us, only if we pay you vast sums of money, showing that you’re into neo-Nazism and junior Fascism for that noblest of purposes…the money!

Then you can give us citations and evidence for all these wacky ideas!

White men can’t organize? Check out the boardrooms of Exxon, Mobil, Chase, US Steel, GM….

Until then, the tumbrels await for you!

See? I don’t even have to think in dealing with him/her/it…I just cut-and-paste my own stuff!

I think we can add to your list with bodies and institutions such as:

Academia at the higher level (still white male controlled in many fields)

The Arts (see above)

Corporate Boardrooms and Executive positions (see above)

Churches (even though, at least in the case of Christian denominations, the majority of followers are female, the vast majority of leaders are still male)

Congress

State Legislatures

The Republican and Democratic Parties

Labor unions (most were originally all white and all male)

Country [and City] Clubs (even today many have no female and no minority members)

Have you never seen a golf tournament?

The only thing worse than the complete disarray of my office is when someone (trying, I suppose, to be helpful), moves something.

I’m afraid that I also “manage by pile.” Part of the reason why is because I am usually working on multiple projects at once, and part of it is because I am simply bad a filing stuff. The thing is, except when I have done a “cleaning,” I can usually find any document I need by digging down into the various piles, which display a lovely chronology–rather like geological layers.

I work a lot with attorneys, and they frequently caution me and other consultants about being careful with our documents, considering that stuff that isn’t marked “attorney/client workproduct” could be subject to discovery. However, I think the opposition would have a pretty damned hard time discovering anything if THEY were pawing through my filing/piling system!

I think it would be a great leap of faith to imagine that Annie reads books.

I completed the task for him, and then told my boss when he came in. “No!” he exclaimed. “That’s MY panther! I’ve been looking all over for it!”

Annie — white men have been organized for millennia and they still are, you foolish person.

I bring this up because back during this time, a whole crop of “former satanists” emerged, penning books and articles and hitting the lecture circuit. We (meaning the Pagan community) paid attention to this because many of these self-proclaimed former satanists were blurring the lines between satanism and nature-based religions such as Wicca (Wicca was a “gate way to satanism,” they declared).

Easily worked up people like Jesse Helms tried to pass legislation against the sending of information on Wicca or any Celtic folklore through the mail–based on all of these accusations. As a rather funny side-note, the coven I was with at the time (which was Celtic-based), sent a letter to Helms, in which we included a fantastically crazy Tony Alamo tract, asking how IT could possibly be okay while Celtic nature beliefs were not. We never got a reply, but his proposal was voted down.

There was an incredible amount of chatter in the various pagan publications, where some of these self-proclaimed former satanists would write in to the letters to the editor section and tell us we were all going to hell and claiming to have performed numerous murders/human sacrifices.

Finally, some of these folks dropped out of sight when several influential pagans challenged them to show where the bodies or skeletons were (I mean, how do you get rid of hundreds of bodies?) and to turn themselves in to the justice system, confess their crimes, and take their punishment if they had really done these things and had now converted to Christianity. They weren’t actually expecting a free walk on hundreds of murders, were they? It is my understanding that several police investigations were conducted, but predictably, no human remains were found.

Happily, the more obnoxious “formers” dropped out of sight, having already made at least some money off of gullible, and I am assuming, well-intentioned Christians.

So — I know that the FBI has checked out some of these alleged “former Islamic terrorists” and haven’t found anything, but if they really were REAL terrorists, and perpetrated criminal acts, why aren’t they in prison? And why are these other loonies palling around with them? Sorry, but I thought in our system of justice, you don’t get a pass just because you “accept Jesus.”

You’re right. Straight white males aren’t allowed to organize.

Because we all know that if they WERE allowed to organize, we’d never be able to deal with the fact that what were once orderly piles of books in our home libraries are now ALPHABETIZED and STACKED ON THE SHELVES.

That IS what you meant by ‘organize,’ right?

Its no doubt a good thing for all of us that they never ever will sit down and realize they actually want the exact same thing.

Looks like gay people aren’t the only targets of their hatred now.