Hatewatch Tweets
Hatewatch is managed by the staff of the Intelligence Report, an investigative magazine published by the Alabama-based civil rights group Southern Poverty Law Center.
Neo-Nazi Jailed for Making Threats Released After Three Years
Harold C. “Hal” Turner, the right-wing Internet radio shock jock, racist, Holocaust denier, FBI snitch, lynching advocate and jailbird, is back home in his New Jersey condo after spending nearly three years in a prison cell in Indiana for threatening three federal judges on his blog who had upheld a handgun ban in Chicago.
You might add delusional to the Turner list.
Just before being released from a Newark half-way house in pre-dawn darkness last Friday, Turner, 50, told the Herald News of New Jersey, “I think my actions, in defense of the country and working covertly for the FBI, prove I’m one of the good guys.’’
Good guy? Good grief.
On his now defunct radio show, Turner ranted and raved for years about “bull-dyke lesbians,” “savage Negro beasts,” “faggots” and a “portable nigger lyncher” machine.
After a countless number of such incendiary statements on the radio, his blog and at neo-Nazi-sponsored rallies from New York to Michigan, Turner finally went too far. On June 24, 2009, he was arrested and charged with threatening to assault and murder three federal judges. Turner had been seething over a decision in a Chicago appeals court that upheld a local handgun ban.
“Let me be the first to say this plainly,” Turner wrote on his blog on June 2, “these judges deserve to be killed.’’
“Their blood will replenish the tree of liberty,” he continued. “A small price to pay to assure freedom for millions.” The next day, Turner updated the post to include the names, work addresses, phone numbers and photographs of the judges.
It took federal prosecutors three trials before convicting Turner of threatening the judges. The first two ended in mistrials.
Turner’s defense argued that the First Amendment protected his speech. His racist rants and threats were part of his undercover work as an FBI informant, his lawyers said. All his talk of “dykes,” “Negro beasts” and lynching machines was a ruse, they argued, encouraged by his federal handlers to draw truly dangerous white supremacist out into the open.
“The vast majority of the things Hal said were nothing more than shock jock material,” Michael A. Orozco, the lawyer who represented Turner at his first two trials said today. “I don’t think he was a racist. He was doing a lot of those things at the behest of the FBI.”
“Hal likes to push people’s buttons,” Orozco added. “I don’t think he meant to cause those judges any harm.”
Turner worked as an informant for the FBI between 2003 and 2007, providing information on white supremacist groups for the same government he frequently railed against.
During opening remarks at Turner’s third trial, William R. Hogan, an assistant U.S. attorney, was quoted by The New York Times saying, “Mr. Turner regards federal judges as domestic enemies who should be killed. He gets off on inciting others to violence.”
Indeed, a couple of weeks before Christmas in 2005, at a rally in Kingston, N.Y., that was planned by his fellow “good guys,” the neo-Nazi National Socialist Movement, Turner threatened a lynching campaign targeting blacks and Hispanics.
“White people have a very nasty version of street justice,” he said. “If these crime problems are not settled by the black and Hispanic communities, rest assured we will get our ropes and we will solve them for you.”
Nazis, Klansmen and Turner had descended on Kingston after a black student assaulted a white student at the local high school in October. Turner and his buddies were convinced the incident was racially motivated.
Two years later, Turner was at it again. He organized what he called “Rally Against Black Gang Terrorism” in Kalamazoo, Mich., which was attended by a number of prominent white supremacist speakers.
Turner closed out the event by saying: “It is very rare in America today that a white man will stand in public and talk about lynching blacks, but I did that here today and if you think I’m kidding … I want you to bear in mind that the reason the city put up these fences and called in all these cops was not to protect us from you [black counter-demonstrators]. It was to protect you from us.”
In February 2008, realizing that then presidential-candidate Barack Obama had a real shot at winning the White House, Turner’s response was to write on his blog about Obama’s assassination. “I’m starting to come to the realization that it may be up to a sole person, acting alone, to make certain this guy is never allowed to hold the most powerful office in the world,” he wrote.
Turner later took down the remark.
The fallen shock jock was picked up from a halfway house by his wife, Phyllis, and his son and taken to their condo in North Bergen. He will spend the next six months under house arrest, according to the Herald News, which added that he would be allowed to leave his home for church, medical and legal reasons and to work.
He is barred, however, from participating in Internet or satellite radio programming for the next three years.
Turner told the newspaper that he stands by “every word I wrote” and expects to be vindicated on appeal. “I did not threaten anybody,” he said. The paper said a federal appeals court in Manhattan is due to rule on his case soon.
Turner also told the paper that he would like to return someday to the media world, perhaps as a television commentator. And he talked about his experiences behind bars at the Federal prison in Terre Haute, Ind. “There is constant and real danger in federal prison,” he said. “It is not Club Fed. Many guys refer to Terre Haute as gladiator school. Violence can happen there in a sudden and explosive manner.”
It sounds like the inmates were reading Turner’s old blog posts.
“Don’t think I’m talking out of my ass either,” he wrote in a 2007 post attacking then-Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid for his positions on immigration. “The last time I focused on a federal official like this, it was US District Judge Joan Humphrey-Lefkow of Chicago. I commented on my show that one of her rulings made her worthy of being killed. Some time later, someone broke into her home and slaughtered her mother and husband.”
It turned out that the killer was angry at Lefkow for other reasons and had not been inspired by the shock jock’s comments. But that didn’t stop Turner from exploiting the murders to instill fear in the hearts of his many, many enemies.
on October 9th, 2012 at 1:46 pm
If those were not threats, then I’ll eat my hat. And fur felt is not very tasty.
(I can’t wait for Ezra and Lew to defend this sparkling member of the white race.)
on October 9th, 2012 at 2:49 pm
Hal Turner now faces similar restrictions to giving vent to his sociopathologies as did Bill White. He might not be able to stand three years of inability to use the Internet to sputter and rave.
on October 9th, 2012 at 3:02 pm
Oh, *I* remember eso gato, and I bet we’ll hear about him again. Nothing good.
on October 9th, 2012 at 4:51 pm
Hopefully he had the opportunity to develop his ethics in prison but for some reason I doubt it. Most inmates of American correctional facilities go back in because our system of punishment does not address the root causes of hate and crime.
Specifically I would like to refer to the institution of torture in American prisons, jails, immigration detention centers, mental health facilities and police stations. We don’t like to think this goes on in America but it is a widespread and relatively common practice, and is applied not always to violent offenders but merely those who speak up for their rights in confinement.
For those who are concerned, I would like to ask you to take a moment to that violence and hate take many forms in our society. The U.S. continues to reject the Optional Protocol to the Convention Against Torture (OPCAT), which has already been signed by 63 nations including our friends and allies in England, Sweden, and elsewhere. Since I don’t want to be accused of copypasta there are online petitions easily found by searching on the Internet.
Hate takes many forms. We cannot expect our citizens to uphold moral virtues of tolerance and non-violence as long as we continue to practice torture in our institutions of justice. They come out traumatized, but not rehabilitated.
on October 10th, 2012 at 12:04 am
Don Terry
I’m glad I don’t have Harold C. Turner’s resume. The guy sounds lovely, just lovely. I hope I never run into him.
on October 10th, 2012 at 6:21 am
The fact that he was a well known snitch likely made his prison stay most unpleasant regardless of ideology. While he naturally would have fit in to the white supremacist prison gangs (which Ezra, Lew, and those other adorable cream horns of the white supremacist movement probably deny the existance of) its doubtful they would touch him with a 10 foot pole (except to do some most unpleasant and unspeakable things to him with it) because he was a snitch.
“Snitches get stitches” is not just a saying. About the only way to be less popular in the prison setting than a well known snitch is to be a pedophile.
Wouldn’t be surprised if he spent most of the time in “protective custody” due to him being a snitch for the FBI. That is solitary confinement which is seen by many people as being torture which can cause a major mental break in people. One can hope that Mr. Turner’s awful prison experience has changed his view of the world but more likely it made him even more angry at it.
on October 10th, 2012 at 12:42 pm
I don’t know Hal Turner. I never listened to his show. From what I’ve read the guy was a real jerk. The case of Hal Turner proves what I’ve been saying. He was employed by the FBI as a fake Nazi/racist/fascist/whatever to lure in lone nuts and fruitcakes, spreading lies.
Whereas Jared Taylor is an example of a real white american who questions multiculturalism and advocates for european americans.
The fake Hal Turner probably cooresponds to what most of you imagine white ‘racists’ to be. He matched the imagine in their mind: A clown. But it was all a lie. Don’t you see? He was fake. It was a setup. A “Hal Turner” type is definitely not me! That’s not what I’m all about.
I urge you to listen to some of Jared Taylor’s talks on youtube. Don’t you see how calm and reasoned his words are? Ca you see the rationality of what he says? My position matches that of Jared Taylor. That is the man I agree with and identify with. Definitely NOT a Hal Turner.
on October 10th, 2012 at 1:06 pm
Erika,
While solitary confinement for any more than a period of days is widely considered torture by international experts, unfortunately the use of torture in the United States goes beyond solitary confinement.
This practice ranges from cops and corrections officers who feel the slightest delay in obeying their commands should result in a beating to individuals such as Chicago Police Commander Jon Burge and officers under his command, who systematically used electric shock to ears and genitals, mock executions, suffocation, and burning on some 135 people in custody. They were all black and one was only thirteen.
Not one of the torturers was ever tried and remain free to this day. You might look into it:
“It is now common knowledge that in the early to mid-1980s Chicago Police Commander Jon Burge and many officers working under him in the physical abuse and torture of prisoners to extract confessions.” U.S. ex rel. Maxwell v. Gilmore 37 F. Supp.2d 1078 (N.D. Ill. 1999).
Impunity is the handmaiden of injustice.
on October 10th, 2012 at 1:43 pm
I’m sure Mr. Turner did not have that pleasant a time in prison. His Aryan Brotherhood buddies may not have been that eager to guard someone who was an admitted FBI informant, and the other ethnic groups in the can probably hated him.
It probably has made him more angry…and he may become harsher in his rhetoric. I suspect he will break his parole as soon as possible, a la Bill White, via proxies or just simply going ahead and doing it.
At least his audience will no longer drool over him, because he has admitted to being an FBI informant. Ironically, many of those adherents themselves would likely sell out their own mothers if it got them a break from the authorities.
Hal Turner is an example of a tragic waste of the talents and abilities that we are given by God and allowed to nurture in free societies. He could have put his ability to gain and hold an audience to positive uses, but chose to enmesh himself in a world of hatred, lies, conspiracy theories, and paranoia. Now he has paid a price for it, and, because of the combination of his federal conviction and “outing,” will continue to do so.
on October 10th, 2012 at 2:09 pm
Hey, Ezra/Jason/Annie: I came, I saw, I watched your video, and couldn’t stop laughing at its fatuity.
Anyway, you’re getting snotty little comments back at you, because YOU STARTED THEM! And no, you’re not a fake. We don’ t think you’re a fake. Distorted, stupid, idiotic, a cut-and-paster, dumb, a spouter of silly ideas, a coward, a fool, condescending, whiney, smug, a troll, a cretin, a misguided individual, a waste of the talents God gives to people, not armed with the good sense God gave maggots, an embarrassment to white people, someone who needs a real life and to get out of his parents’ basement, signed up with a silly cause, pathetic, entertaining, hilarious, and the biggest source of laughs on this site outside of Bungalow Boob.
For example, Ezra/Jason/Annie, do you remember, a few blog entries ago, demanding all kinds of information from us for those “profiles” you were building? You asked for our sexual preferences, our arrest history, our debt levels, and our resume for the past 10 years.
Now, you never made those profiles, didn’t tell us what it was all for, heck, you didn’t even give us an e-mail address or a mailing address where we were supposed to send our resumes for the past 10 years to! Where was I supposed to send that, Goofy? Fascists-Are-Us? Care of the Obseralzberg?
And how about some of the other idiotic statements you’ve made? Take a look below. Remember spouting them? Do you expect us to give you even the slightest droplets of respect when you come out with such clangers? When you don’t answer our requests for proof and to back up your idiocies?
We treat people who give childish and puerile outbursts around here with exactly what they deserve: snappy answers to stupid questions. No more, no less.
That’s all you get, because that’s all you’re worth. As Corinthians says, it’s time you put away childish things. Don’t like the world? Tough. Live in it. The world didn’t turn out the way you wanted? Tougher. Get a helmet.Not happy that “minorities” are outnumbering whites? Go marry a girl who looks like Linda Evans, complete with shoulder pads, and raise a baseball team of kids on a compound somewhere, with like-minded looney tunes, totally separated from the real world, and see how long that lasts before it starts falling down from incompetence and paranoia. Nobody’s stopping you. Nobody even cares.
Until you get a clue, and get some help, and start asking real questions, seeking real answers, all you will get around here will be derision and re-runs. That’s all you’re worth. To us, you’re just entertainment.
So in that vein, here comes my standard re-run for you.
Annie/Jason/Ezra lives in a nice little house, right next to reality.
I gotta tell you, though, this is a lot funnier than Bungalow Boob…he hasn’t shown up lately. I miss him.
So Annie/Jason/Ezra, what happened with those profiles you were building of all the members of this forum? When are you going to create that web page with your worldview and your biting, incisive, well-researched analysis?
Anyway, here’s my stock response to Annie/Jason/Ezra, just so that I can be “as constant as the Northern Star:”
Annie/Jason Smith/Ezra Mead is back again!
Complete with revolving sex changes…here strictly to derail the discussion!
So, Annie/Jason/Ezra Mead…do tell us how the Holocaust never happened!
Then tell us how the Russian people greeted their Nazi invaders with flowers!
Then tell us how Norman Rockwell sided with Hitler!
Then show us your proof that the white man is superior to the black man!
And tell us again how you’ll prove it to us, only if we pay you vast sums of money, showing that you’re into neo-Nazism and junior Fascism for that noblest of purposes…the money!
Then you can give us citations and evidence for all these wacky ideas!
Until then, the tumbrels await for you!
See? I don’t even have to think in dealing with him/her/it…I just cut-and-paste my own stuff!
I still miss Bungalow Boob, though.
The Thurm be with you, Jason/Annie/Ezra.
And when are you going to do that profile of us?
on October 10th, 2012 at 2:34 pm
Kiwi, Kiwi, Kiwi, Kiwi, kiss us moa!
on October 10th, 2012 at 2:54 pm
Ezra,
Communicating stupid, hateful, incorrect ideas in a calm and reasonable way doesn’t make them any less stupid, hateful, or incorrect.
on October 10th, 2012 at 4:49 pm
“The fake Hal Turner probably cooresponds to what most of you imagine white ‘racists’ to be. He matched the imagine in their mind: A clown. But it was all a lie. Don’t you see? He was fake. It was a setup. A ‘Hal Turner’ type is definitely not me! That’s not what I’m all about.”
Actually, Jason – oops, sorry, “Ezra,” – that’s exactly what you’re “all about”: a fake, a liar, a clown. Your favorite tactic (actually, your only tactic) is to make the most outrageously false and stupid comment possible in the context of a given thread, then respond like a total blockhead when someone points out that it’s false and stupid.
In other words, your comments here are the intellectual and moral equivalent of farting in a crowded elevator. You do indeed draw attention (which seems to be your goal), but it does put you in something of a bad odor with other people. And while it’s always easy, and sometimes amusing, to demonstrate that your utterances are nothing but smelly toots, it’s also pointless, because you just come back with another blast of verbal flatulence.
My guess is that you do this stuff to demonstrate (to yourself) your vast intellectual superiority, thinking you’re somehow tricking people, manipulating them, like some sort of mastermind. But I think you’d be more impressive if you’d stop acting like a precocious and seriously deranged 9-year-old.
on October 10th, 2012 at 6:05 pm
Irregardless of the very long posts above, we all agree that Hal Turner was an FBI operative, correct?
If that is true, he does not represent any true white nationalist. It was a put-on. An act. A lie. A very stupid one at that. A show, orchestrated by the FBI. Similar to ABSCAM during the 1970′s. Just a front. Does not that make you question if many of the other white nationalist organizations are also FBI fronts? e. g. NSM, National Alliance, Aryan Brotherhood, World Church of the Creator… basically any wacky group of nut cases.
I believe that most Nazi/KKK organizations are actually organized by the FBI. They’re fake organizations. There are only a tiny handful of real white patriot groups out there. You can tell they are real because their content and arguments are well reasoned, honest, calm, and always within the law.
on October 10th, 2012 at 8:31 pm
adamhill,
If you believe Jared Taylor’s ideas are “stupid, hateful, and incorrect,” then go to the American Renaissance website, contact Jared Taylor, and begin posting your rebuttals. I have emailed Taylor and he was gracious to respond personally. I’m sure many of the posters over at America Renaissance will be willing to debate you if you are civil, polite, and respectable. Their website is http://www.amren.com/
You are free to do all of these things. I will not try to stop you nor infringe upon your freedom of speech. You are free to go to pro-white websites and debate the individuals there.
on October 11th, 2012 at 10:22 am
HAHAHA! Ezra said ‘irregardless!’ HAHAHA!
Learn to speak English, genius.
on October 11th, 2012 at 10:30 am
Irregardless is not a word. You may say regardless or you may say irrespective.
Thank you please come again!
on October 11th, 2012 at 11:13 am
“A show, orchestrated by the FBI. Similar to ABSCAM during the 1970’s. … I believe that most Nazi/KKK organizations are actually organized by the FBI. They’re fake organizations. There are only a tiny handful of real white patriot groups out there. You can tell they are real because their content and arguments are well reasoned, honest, calm, and always within the law.”
Let the record show:
Jason Smith said,
on April 28th, 2012 at 10:05 pm
“Remember guys, that every Nazi group should be suspect as the FBI is know to set up fake organizations; vis-a-vis ABSCAM of the 1970s and COINTELPRO. If it’s not a complete FBI fake setup, the FBI certainly has moles in the group who are paid informers and are probably leaders in the group. Because those leaders have access to membership rolls.”
Annie said,
on August 9th, 2012 at 6:26 pm
“Every ‘Nazi’ or ‘KKK’ organization is an FBI Psy-Ops front: A Co-Intel program similar to ABSCAM in the 1970’s.”
Ezra_mead said,
on September 19th, 2012 at 5:18 pm
“Every KKK or Nazi organization is just one guy with a website and a PO box. Probably a high school kid just trolling. Whenever KKK or Nazis have a rally, usually only 25 guys show up. Half are either FBI agents or undercover media. … Anyone can create a blog, so these punks are creating blogs as trolls so they can sit back and laugh and watch the reaction.”
That last sentence looks a lot like self-description.
on October 11th, 2012 at 11:49 am
Hey, Ezra/Jason/Annie…how come you haven’t answered my questions?
on October 11th, 2012 at 12:32 pm
Another question for our tri-sexual:
You claim a great deal of knowledge of the inner workings of neo-Nazi organizations, including Hal Turner, which you claim you “never listen to.” So how do you know so much about him and them?
And I took a peep at your pals at AmRen.”
“Reasoned, honest, calm?” I found them paranoid, apocalyptic, sex-obsessed, whiny, and sarcastic.
A lot of people obsessed with white women dating black guys and white guys dating Asian girls, gnashing their teeth, I guess, that they can’t “do it” with hotties.
And ridiculous first-person stories about negative encounters with black people. Maybe if they didn’t bring the chips on their shoulders to the encounter, they wouldn’t have turned out so badly.
Also, a lot of begging…begging for speaking engagements for Jared Taylor, begging for people to write snottygrams to the editors of their local newspapers, begging for people to show up at the “conferences,” and most of all, most importantly, begging for money.
Which is the heart of the operation, of course.
Speaking of obsession with money, Ezra/Jason/Annie, I recall you told us that you would only provide proofs for your arguments if we paid you vast sums of money! What are you in the great white crusade for?
And another thing…if civilization is going to collapse, leading to race wars and tyranny, why are you guys so money-obsessed? What value will money have after the apocalypse or when we’re all living in Panem, under President Snow, and watching the Hunger Games?
Looks to me like this is just racial hatred with a pwetty face combined with a money-making scheme straight out of the snake oil days.
So, yeah, Ezra/Annie/Jason, I looked. I was not impressed, either by the snide copy or the cogency of the paranoid arguments, so I’ve done my reconnaissance and report. Some of that stuff sounded like the most ridiculous fiction….like a black woman naming her daughter “Latrine” because it sounded pretty.
The only thing that amused me was the racist who said, “Ask a Liberal if he hears ‘Haitian Airlines, now boarding,’ if he would board. If they do, they’re stupid. If they don’t, they’re hypocrites.”
Actually, third-world nations usually have extremely well-run international airlines, because they’re carrying the flag of the country, and often their domestic airlines are pretty good, too, for the same reason. And I’ve had pretty appalling service on American flag carriers, both international and domestic. Obviously, this was a clown who knows less about international aviation than he does about race, which isn’t saying much.
But, anyway, Ezra/Jason/Annie, when ARE you going to do that web page so we can send you our 10-year resumes for that page of profiles you were building, and explain to us the purpose of that exercise?
We’re all eagerly awaiting.
And besides, it’s YOUR JOB to present your arguments, not make other people do your research for you. In addition to being stupid, you’re also lazy. No wonder the white race is falling down, if you’re its greatest representative.
And tell me again how superior you are to Percy Lavon Julian, Jan E. Metzeliger, Zora Neale Hurston, and Robert C. Weaver. If you don’t know who they are, do some work for a change, instead of sitting in your parents’ basement, whining.
on October 11th, 2012 at 12:46 pm
Aron, aadila,
No. You’re wrong. There is nothing wrong with informal use of the word “irregardless” in casual text, such as we have here.
Check out this Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irregardless
If I were writing a formal paper, it would be an issue, but there is nothing here that bothers me. Why are you so concerned about trivial details?
I urge both of you to focus your lives on real world issues that will improve your lives, such as getting a better paying job, joining the military, getting married, saving up to buy a home, or doing anything that will make a real man out of you.
on October 11th, 2012 at 12:51 pm
I think it’s because you stumped him, Kiwi. He doesn’t know what to say.
on October 11th, 2012 at 1:24 pm
European-Americans? No, nothing about you is European, EzraJasonAnnie. You’re about as European as Mitt Romney knows what it’s like to be poor.
on October 11th, 2012 at 2:00 pm
Well Ezra, you cute little vanilla wafer, there is nothing wrong about banging randomly on the keyboard either, you might even try using your forehead, but if you want to be understood you might stick to words which are intelligible and literate.
on October 11th, 2012 at 2:16 pm
Ezra, you tell me to make something of my life? I own a successful business with clients all over the world. I’ve had more success in my twenty-five years of life than you will EVER experience.
And no matter how you cut it, using the word ‘irregardless’ makes you look even dumber than if you had used ‘ain’t.’
But nice try, sport.
on October 11th, 2012 at 2:41 pm
Ezra, I have done a number of these things, and although nothing in this incarnation will ever make a man out of me, I am more of one than you.
on October 11th, 2012 at 3:20 pm
Ezra/Annie/Jason: “I urge both of you to focus your lives on real world issues that will improve your lives, such as getting a better paying job, joining the military, getting married, saving up to buy a home, or doing anything that will make a real man out of you.”
Did all of those.
When have you?
on October 11th, 2012 at 3:49 pm
Ezra seems so … unreliable.
on October 11th, 2012 at 4:33 pm
“If you believe Jared Taylor’s ideas are “stupid, hateful, and incorrect,” then go to the American Renaissance website, contact Jared Taylor, and begin posting your rebuttals.”
Um, why would I do that? There is no lack of people with fervently-held stupid, hateful, incorrect, crazy beliefs. Ordinarily the most sensible approach to such people is to ignore them and instead use my limited time on more productive pursuits, such as interacting with my children and wife, doing volunteer work, studying, etc. I think the Raelians are a bunch of lunatics and/or con-artists, but I don’t visit their website and waste my time trying to convince them otherwise. Why bother? The only reason I engage with you is because I think the discussions on this SPLC (an organization that does much to improve the world) website ultimately have positive outcomes, including more donations coming in for the SPLC.
When visitors to this website read the kinds of things you write, Ezra, they are more likely to donate money to the SPLC. For readers of this site, you make the problem of racists out there attempting to promote white supremacy (with all its associated social damage and criminality) more tangible and frightening, and they donate money. Please keep coming back.
“You are free to do all of these things. I will not try to stop you nor infringe upon your freedom of speech.”
Gee, thanks. Because I’ve been up all night worrying about whether or not you would infringe on it.
I understand that since you have embraced a racist idealogy, you believe those who disagree with you to be deluded dupes of some “libtard multiculturalist” conspiracy, while you and your friends on the fringe right have seen the light and are in possession of a greater truth. To take up and argue with the talking points of Jared Taylor (and for all we know, you might even be him) is essentially to point out the many deficits of racist ideology, which is no more complicated a chore than communicating the nature of a set of logical fallacies and applying them to said talking points, and thereby debunking the pseudo-science used to support them. The problems with actually engaging in this tiresome task, however, are 1) all of these arguments and information have already been made and are easily available to you (Google “logical fallacies” for starters, then consider absolutely dispassionately each of Jared Taylor’s assertions; read some books on critical thinking, basic statistics, probability, and the scientific method; they might actually change your life), 2) it would make no difference, because you are already sold, born-again, a “true believer”.
Beyond a quick plea to seek truth without prejudice, you can’t convince a Raelian to not be a Raelian.
on October 11th, 2012 at 6:07 pm
““Don’t think I’m talking out of my ass either,” he wrote in a 2007 post attacking then-Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid for his positions on immigration.”
Harry Reid is still the Senate Majority Leader.
on October 11th, 2012 at 6:59 pm
When JasonAnnieEzra provides his/her DD214, then I will do the same.
on October 12th, 2012 at 2:27 am
“No. You’re wrong. There is nothing wrong with informal use of the word “irregardless” in casual text, such as we have here.
Check out this Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irregardless”
I don’t give a damn about Wikipedia; irregardless is not a proper word.
“I urge both of you to focus your lives on real world issues that will improve your lives, such as getting a better paying job, joining the military, getting married, saving up to buy a home, or doing anything that will make a real man out of you.”
Like Kiwi, I’ve pretty much done most of that. That’s one reason why I’m not a White Nationalist. I have a life, I have real things to be proud of, ergo I don’t need to take pride in my “race”, a societal construct into which I was born by chance. I don’t spend time worrying about foreigners, interracial dating, homosexuals, etc.
on October 12th, 2012 at 8:20 am
Negatory, Erza. Irregardless not.
on October 12th, 2012 at 8:54 am
Freedom of speech in this country doesn’t mean that one can threaten some one with bodily harm.
on October 12th, 2012 at 9:20 am
This is just a word to the wise:
There are documented accounts of Ruslan peering through one foot of lead panel to cause a samovar to boil. For this reason, with infinite compassion, Ruslan always wears dark lenses to protect us, but it is wise not to tempt him all the same.
on October 12th, 2012 at 9:59 am
Some may also have read the propaganda posters that explain Ruslan singlehandedly stopped a panzer division at the seige of Leningrad with a Tokarev-TT33. This is not true. It is well understood by most historians that this pistol was completely out of ammunition, and the panzers simply ground to a halt when they approached Ruslan’s humanity, on the merit of personality alone.
on October 12th, 2012 at 10:32 am
Welcome, Tobias, and kudos for using a real name. In this country the line is drawn at threats. In other civilized countries mere hate speech is illegal. Our current leadership has elected to stop using certain terms, like Muslim Extremist, and Jihad. The UN has proposed to disallow “Blasphemy”, which I suppose they can expertly define. In Totalitarian regimes dissenters are simply killed. This seems to me to be a progression down the same path.
on October 12th, 2012 at 11:17 am
Yes, Sam.
In totalitarian regimes, dissenters such as Sacco and Vanzetti, are simply killed.
In this case the United States.
Odd how quickly right wing stereotypes fall when confronted with facts.
on October 12th, 2012 at 12:25 pm
Aadila, if you are correct about Ruslan, I daresay he simply took off his dark glasses and boiled the Nazis’ samovars for them.
on October 12th, 2012 at 1:18 pm
Hal turner admitted he was an actor. His whole show was fake. Nobody at American Renaissance or any legitimate group working against anti-white hatred and bias ever took him serious or wanted anything to do with him.
The posters on here are all a bunch of anti-white bigots and haters. They speak nothing but lies. Their kind are even creating fake portrayals of us, clown really, like Hal Turner, to discredit normal, healthy white people.
on October 12th, 2012 at 2:19 pm
It’s not a lie, Ezra!
The panzers stopped dead in their tracks.
on October 12th, 2012 at 2:31 pm
Ezra, you made a mistake yet again: AmRen and its ilk are NOT legitimate organizations.
on October 12th, 2012 at 3:49 pm
Right Ezra, I’m sure you suffer lots of “anti-white hatred”. I’m sure people refuse you employment and housing because of your white skin. I’m sure when you encounter people at night, they immediately think you’re a criminal, and I’m sure you were provided with less attention from teachers in schools because you’re white. The reason you’re more likely to be given the death penalty for identical crimes as those committed by people with darker skin color is because, poor you, you’re white.
I’m sure if by magic you could choose right now which skin color you have now, you’d change it to any color, any color at all, but white!
on October 12th, 2012 at 7:21 pm
Oh, my Lord, this is too easy. Ezra/Annie/Jason:
“Hal turner admitted he was an actor. His whole show was fake. Nobody at American Renaissance or any legitimate group working against anti-white hatred and bias ever took him serious or wanted anything to do with him.
The posters on here are all a bunch of anti-white bigots and haters. They speak nothing but lies. Their kind are even creating fake portrayals of us, clown really, like Hal Turner, to discredit normal, healthy white people.”
Where to begin? Let’s see…his show was a fake? Check out his numbers of listeners and the events he spoke at…that audience took him pretty seriously for all those years..
“The posters here are all a bunch of anti-white bigots and haters.” That’s a hoot! Wrong, genius, we just hate dummies like you!
“They speak nothing but lies.” So why are you here to talk to us? Why are you wasting your precious energy and pearls of stupidity on a bunch of liars? Do you enjoy being smacked down on an hourly basis? (Maybe he/she likes it when he hires a dominatrix)
Who speaks lies? Let’s check out your own material:
Tell us how the Holocaust never happened!
Then tell us how the Russian people greeted their Nazi invaders with flowers!
Then tell us how Norman Rockwell sided with Hitler!
Then show us your proof that the white man is superior to the black man!
And tell us again how you’ll prove it to us, only if we pay you vast sums of money, showing that you’re into neo-Nazism and junior Fascism for that noblest of purposes…the money!
Then you can give us citations and evidence for all these wacky ideas!
Until then, the tumbrels await for you!
See? I don’t even have to think in dealing with him/her/it…I just cut-and-paste my own stuff!
And he still hasn’t answered a single one of my questions!
And when are you going to do that profile of us?
I still need an e-mail address to send you my resume.
And tell me: the things you demanded we do: get married, join the military, save our money, buy a house, and get a better-paying job…when are you going to lead by example, and get out of your parents’ basement and do that very thing?
But we know why Ezra/Annie/Jason is here…after he’s done spouting drivel, he runs back to American Renaissance, and tells all his buddies how he was bravely standing up for the white race against those horrid Negroes, Communists, and Jews, waging epic battle with them on the internet. Yep, standing in the gap, just like Horatius at the Roman bridge or Maj. John Howard at Pegasus Bridge.
Such bravery and valor.
I haven’t seen such raw, unvarnished courage, since the “Immortal Regiment” of the Russian Civil War. I’m sure Ruslan knows about that White Army outfit.
I get more laughs out of Ezra/Jason/Annie than I do out of “Comedy Central.”
Tell us again why you’re wasting your time on “liars” and when you’re going to do those profiles of us!
on October 12th, 2012 at 7:23 pm
You all speak lies. Communist lies. What does the phrase “Labor in kind” mean? It means slaves! That’s what it says in the Yalta agreement. Stalin had a secret agreement with Churchill to take 4 million German civilians as slaves after the war to Siberia. It says in the Yalta agreement Russia can take, “Labor in kind”. Women, children, and babies. In addition, 4-5 million German POW’s were kept as slaves in the Soviet Union after the war. By my tally, there are about 16 million Germans who are “missing”. What happened to them?
Far more Germans were carried off into slavery during the 20th century than all the Blacks brought to America in the previous four hundred years as slaves.
read the Yalta agreement. There is a clause that says Russia has the right after the war to take German civilians as “Labor In Kind”. What is that? It’s a slave! They took German civilians as slaves after the war to Siberia.
on October 12th, 2012 at 8:23 pm
JasonAnnieEzra,
If you, or the committee that creates your persona, are what passes for “normal, healthy white people”, then this country is f**ked. However, since “you” do not meet that criteria, there may be some hope for the good ol’ U.S. of A. after all.
on October 12th, 2012 at 11:20 pm
Every law against free expression eventually is misused.
on October 13th, 2012 at 1:36 am
Ezra, as much of a clown as Hal might have been, he still attracted a massive audience of WNs. Amren still has ties to the larger WN movement. Why is your movement so full of mental defectives? Why can’t it shed them away? It’s simple really- Your movement contains people who have nothing to be proud of other than the fact that they’re white.
on October 13th, 2012 at 11:31 am
Yep, a committee. Note how Ezra has shifted into hysteria gear.
on October 13th, 2012 at 3:41 pm
Ruslan,
The answer is simple. You are mis-reading what I ‘m all about. There are really two separate categories the “pro-white movement.” There are the crazies. Groups like Nazis, World Church of the Creator, KKK, … Vinlander Social club (?) whatever they’re called. I don’t really know anything about these types. I think they are weird, losers. I’ve never associated with them. I have never joined such a group, nor would I be interested.
Then there is another category of very normal people, like Jared Taylor or Peter Brimelow. They are calm, reasoned, educated, articulate. It is this latter group I associate myself with. Peter Brimelow is very successful, writing for Forbes and other financial magazines. Taylor speaks four languages: Spanish, French, English, Japanese. Neither has ever advocated anything illegal or ever opined hatred for another group. Taylor accepts homosexuals and Jews. He considers these non-issues. His concern is preservation of western civilization and ending the flood of third world immigration.
Your mistake is you associate all of us together as one group. I would never be caught dead associating with a Bill White or a Hal Turner. I agree absolutely with you; those kind of guys are losers.
If you really want to understand us, start reading some of the writings of Jared Taylor or Peter Brimelow. You’ll see we’re probably very different than you thought.
on October 13th, 2012 at 4:04 pm
Once again, JasonAnnieEzra attempts to derail the conversation by introducing previously debunked and off topic material. One truism about the intertubes is that attention whores (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/attention_whore) are very rarely smart.
Wow, 16 million missing? That’s a huge number and must have been extremely painful to pull out of your arse. It would be extraordinarily shocking, if it actually happened. However, simple math and a check of German records easily debunk that number. The actual number is 1/10th of your imaginary 16 million missing.
The pre-war population of Germany was roughly 69.9 million. The high end estimate of German war dead, military and civilian, is 6.9 million, or roughly 10% of the pre-war population. If we increase that number to 16m, that would mean the post-war population was roughly 23% lower than at the start of hostilities. That number is clearly bogus, as demonstrated by the post-war census of Germany (East and West).
The 1950 census of East Germany was roughly 18.4m. In West Germany, the number was roughly 49.8m. That gives us a total of 68.2m Germans, five years after the end of WWII. So, you are going to need to take that 16 million and jam it back where you pulled it from in the first place.
The Soviets captured nearly 3m German soldiers during the war, most of whom were returned by 1948. The West German government Maschke Commission in 1974 reported that 1.2 m POWs were still missing and believed to be dead. 1.1m were thought to have died in Soviet custody. Again, your numbers do not comport with reliable German information, that is readily available.
In 1964 the German Red Cross estimated that 874k Germans were deported for forced labour in the Soviet Union, of which 342k were reported to be missing and presumed dead. A 1986 report increases that number to 1.7m, with 580k missing and presumed dead. Please note that these are German reports, hardly what one would label as “communist lies”. Unsurprisingly, your numbers do not stand the test of reality.
All this information has been given to you at various times. Yet, like the attention whore that you are, you repeat the same tired old crap and demand that it be debunked every time you repeat it.
on October 13th, 2012 at 7:18 pm
I know we have veered off thread “a little” with the Yalta agreement and such. After the German Army invaded Russia and committed thousands of unspeakable acts, at the time, it seemed more appropriate to say, who cares what happens to all those Germans. What percentage of fanatics turned arguably the best educated, most creative and artistc society in Europe into the monsters of the Third Reich? What percentage of fanatical Muslims are turning a people with a tolerant, artistic and brilliant past, into the ones who burn embassies and kill diplomats? Not saying it does not make it go away.
on October 13th, 2012 at 7:55 pm
“Ezra” is recycling again:
Jason Smith said,
on January 20th, 2012 at 6:04 pm
“In the closing days of WWII the Soviet army was an entire army of rapists. Stalin had a secret agreement with Churchill and Roosevelt to take 4 million German civilians as slaves to Siberia to work in the Gulags — German women, old people teenagers, children. German babies were even taken for medical experiments. Stalin has a nightmarish dream of breeding humans with gorillas to create a super race of human/ape hybrids, which of course, failed. Read yourself in the Yalta agreement. It says the Soviets can take civilians as ‘labor in kind’ — meaning SLAVES!”
Etc. etc. etc. Just as tedious, off-topic and intentionally distracting in January as “Ezra’s” latest entry. Dude, you need to stay on your meds.
Since you’re recycling your comments, no need for new responses:
Aron said,
on January 21st, 2012 at 3:16 pm
Jason,
“Ape/human hybrid supermen? Wow. In a lifetime spent studying every aspect of the Second World War, this is a new one to me.”
“Maybe you need to cut down on your LSD intake, hmmm?”
And:
Ruslan Amirkhanov said,
on January 21st, 2012 at 9:53 pm
“I really didn’t think I needed to point this out, but Jason, you just failed history class. F-.”
on October 13th, 2012 at 10:23 pm
The fact that Amren and similar sites exist is because of a reaction to a perceived threatening political correctness.
What’s interesting is that WN and BN both follow the same ideology albeit some more extreme than others.. i.e, Black Israelite’s, New Black Panther Party, etc..
The real mindf*** is that if racism ceased to exist then sites such as Amren, SPLC, Stormfront, etc…would no longer be necessary and something has to keep those wheels, so to speak, greased.
Too, there’s no such thing as racial superiority of any kind although some races do better in certain areas than others.
I have to admit I get a kick out of these “non racists” who seem like they’re practically foaming at the mouth when they type and talk about “pro-white groups” and Kiwiwriter obviously doesn’t get out much or live down south.
on October 14th, 2012 at 2:34 am
That’s a hilarious claim, Ezra. Where’s the evidence?
on October 14th, 2012 at 10:47 am
So, respect for civil rights must take priority over the enforcement of laws… is that correct, Sam Molloy?
Just for the record…
on October 14th, 2012 at 1:25 pm
‘You all speak lies. Communist lies. What does the phrase “Labor in kind” mean? It means slaves! That’s what it says in the Yalta agreement. Stalin had a secret agreement with Churchill to take 4 million German civilians as slaves after the war to Siberia. It says in the Yalta agreement Russia can take, “Labor in kind”. Women, children, and babies. In addition, 4-5 million German POW’s were kept as slaves in the Soviet Union after the war. By my tally, there are about 16 million Germans who are “missing”. What happened to them?
Far more Germans were carried off into slavery during the 20th century than all the Blacks brought to America in the previous four hundred years as slaves.
read the Yalta agreement. There is a clause that says Russia has the right after the war to take German civilians as “Labor In Kind”. What is that? It’s a slave! They took German civilians as slaves after the war to Siberia.’
Hey, Jason/Annie/Ezra: Are you going to provide proof of that in the Yalta Agreements?
I’m talking to you, fella! *SMACK*
Here, read this again:
Who speaks lies? Let’s check out your own material:
Tell us how the Holocaust never happened!
Then tell us how the Russian people greeted their Nazi invaders with flowers!
Then tell us how Norman Rockwell sided with Hitler!
Then show us your proof that the white man is superior to the black man!
And tell us again how you’ll prove it to us, only if we pay you vast sums of money, showing that you’re into neo-Nazism and junior Fascism for that noblest of purposes…the money!
Then you can give us citations and evidence for all these wacky ideas!
Until then, the tumbrels await for you!
See? I don’t even have to think in dealing with him/her/it…I just cut-and-paste my own stuff!
And he still hasn’t answered a single one of my questions!
And when are you going to do that profile of us?
I still need an e-mail address to send you my resume.
And tell me: the things you demanded we do: get married, join the military, save our money, buy a house, and get a better-paying job…when are you going to lead by example, and get out of your parents’ basement and do that very thing?
But we know why Ezra/Annie/Jason is here…after he’s done spouting drivel, he runs back to American Renaissance, and tells all his buddies how he was bravely standing up for the white race against those horrid Negroes, Communists, and Jews, waging epic battle with them on the internet. Yep, standing in the gap, just like Horatius at the Roman bridge or Maj. John Howard at Pegasus Bridge.
Such bravery and valor.
I haven’t seen such raw, unvarnished courage, since the “Immortal Regiment” of the Russian Civil War. I’m sure Ruslan knows about that White Army outfit.
I get more laughs out of Ezra/Jason/Annie than I do out of “Comedy Central.”
Tell us again why you’re wasting your time on “liars” and when you’re going to do those profiles of us!
And how about the Nazi use of slave labor. Alfried Krupp was the greatest slave owner in history, with even a special camp for the children of slave laborer as Voerde-bei-Dinslaken.
And if we’re all such liars and Communists, why are you still here?
And what do the Yalta Accords have to do with Hal Turner and American Renaissance? Nothing. Just to hijack the discussion.
So when are you going to provide us with that e-mail or mailing address for our 10-year resumes?
on October 14th, 2012 at 10:22 pm
Kiwi,
Might you have anymore information about The Immortals? I’m a bit of a early-twentieth century Russophile, and I’ve never heard of them.
Forgive me for forgetting any other way to get in touch with you. Oops!
Thanks.
on October 15th, 2012 at 5:51 am
Dear Ezra:
One can only imagine what horrors you have gone through in life to have to resort to such obvious attention getting behavior – however i think that Kiwiwriter called it – you are simply looking for humilation.
i believe that you spend much of your time in the Third Reich Room at the Women in Control Theater in Blue Ball, Pennsylvania. And when you get bored of watching, want more interaction, or at work and cannot visit Blue Ball you come here to get your humilation fix. That explains the multiple identities and changes whenever people get onto your new identity and stop responding (plus, it no doubt is humilating when people catch you being “bad”).
Your identification with the Nazis and your fantasy about Germans being carried off into Soviet slavery is a classic and revealing scenario. If one views himselve as bad and deserving of punishment, what more perfect way to be “bad” than to be a Nazi? Thus you want to be the bad little Nazi who gets punished in defeat. Its clear that your attraction to the Nazis is not the power like some neo-Nazis or even racism despite your pretending it is (i believe that your racism is simply an act to get slapped down as the bad little racist) – instead it is to their humilating defeat and punishment after World War II. And being carried off by the Soviets to a Gulag – you don’t have to be a psychologist to see that is obviously your fantasy scenario: to have a dominatrix dressed as a Red Army officer strip you of your Nazi uniform in the Soviet prison and then have her way with your worthless “Nazi” self.
Now i understand why you asked those personal questions of me – you wanted to get a better idea of how i’d look as a Red Army officer – and obviously you asked for my height and weight to know what size of a uniform to buy for me. And the purpose of the resume was clear – because the resume would have my address, so then you’d know where to send the Red Army officer’s uniform.
i’m flattered by your interest and generous offer to send me a Red Army officer’s uniform, sweetie. However, i must tell you: if you are looking for a dominatrix, you are most definitely barking up the wrong peach tree ;)
But i do wish you good luck in finding the right women to provide the punishment and humilation that your bad little “Nazi” self needs so much and maybe once you find her you can stop being such a nuisance here.
Very Truly Yours,
Erika :)
p.s. Is Jorge your new identity? You can tell me, i’m very good at keeping secrets ;)
on October 15th, 2012 at 8:32 am
“What percentage of fanatical Muslims are turning a people with a tolerant, artistic and brilliant past, into the ones who burn embassies and kill diplomats? ”
Sam, this is a hypocritical argument.
You are equally responsible for the 30 million dead and 200 million maimed by US wars of adventure since 1945. What percentage of a tolerant, democratic people turned us into the tyrants that we are? We drop missiles from drones on school children. That’s our Freedom. Not saying it doesn’t make it go away.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. There is not righteous killing, Muslim killing, or Libertarian self-defense killing. There is just killing.
None of it is noble.
on October 15th, 2012 at 8:34 am
There may be hope for “Ezra” some day. After all, he/she/it keeps coming back with canned arguments from Stormfront and every time they are either easily smacked down with actual sources or he/she/it can’t substantiate his/her/its own claims with evidence. After a while one might take notice and start to question one’s ideology.
on October 15th, 2012 at 8:54 am
I’m with Aron, there. Being of a certain age, I actually knew a number of pre-Revolutionary and trans-Revolutionary Russians, and “The Immortals” doesn’t ring a bell.
on October 15th, 2012 at 8:56 am
On the other hand, what he/she/it/they seem to crave is constant attention.
on October 15th, 2012 at 9:38 am
Regarding the Immortal Regiment, I asked my mentor from college, a man who owns a sizable library of military history, and his response was so delightfully pithy, I figured I should share it:
‘Since none of my books mention them, I infer that their immortality had a limited temporal span.’
Anxiously awaiting Kiwi’s response.
on October 15th, 2012 at 9:47 am
It’s been a long time since I studied White army units. The only one’s with colorful names which come to mind are the “Savage Division”, the Kornilov Shock Regiment, and the Women’s Battalions of Death.
on October 15th, 2012 at 10:01 am
Ruslan, I had heard of those also, and never of any Immortals, but a search showed a cryptic reference connecting them with Tomsk.
That you have not heard of them either, consoles me somewhat in my ignorance.
on October 15th, 2012 at 10:09 am
I think Annie has no sense of self, really.
By getting a reaction from people, he sees his own shadow so to speak. But this is not a true sense of self, one of mature identity. I think these expressions of ideology are not heartfelt beliefs, but merely a costume thrown over the sense of what’s missing. Annie is still only a child, really, in many regards. By playing, children learn who they are.
When you think about it, this is truly an unfortunate way to be. The comments are obnoxious, but try to remember that there is a human being behind them who is probably very unhappy. Though neurotic, the need for attention, any kind of attention, is real. Annie will be stuck in an endless loop unless he realizes this is so.
It is possible to find a way to feel like a whole person without antagonizing others, Annie.
on October 15th, 2012 at 10:17 am
“There are really two separate categories the ‘pro-white movement.’ There are the crazies. Groups like Nazis, World Church of the Creator, KKK, … Vinlander Social club (?) whatever they’re called. I don’t really know anything about these types. I think they are weird, losers. I’ve never associated with them. I have never joined such a group, nor would I be interested. Then there is another category of very normal people, like Jared Taylor or Peter Brimelow. They are calm, reasoned, educated, articulate. It is this latter group I associate myself with.”
Oh really? Then please explain this:
Jason Smith said,
on May 3rd, 2012 at 11:20 pm
“What’s wrong with being a neo-Nazi?”
Then there’s this gem:
Jason Smith said,
on February 11th, 2012 at 10:06 pm
“America is an evil country. While our brave young men were fighting in the East to stop the Asiatic hoards [sic], America bombed our civilians. There were no German soldiers left in the cities near the end of WWII. There were only babies, old people, young children, women. Yet the Americans bombed these civilians. During all this time our brave young men were fighting against Communism. America is an evil country. America fought on the side of evil during WWII. And evil won that war.”
Who’s this “our” you keep referring to – unser Volk, vielleicht?
As for JasEzrAnnie’s understanding of “very normal people” and what “reasoned” means, there’s this memorable remark:
Jason Smith said,
on May 7th, 2012 at 12:17 pm
“FYI: I do not read any of your responses. I never click on your links. I am not going to do any work for you or answer your questions for free. I don’t do that.”
In other words, “Don’t confuse me with facts. Whatever you say, I’m going to stick my fingers in my ears and go, ‘Lalalalala, I can’t hear you.’ ”
Brilliant.
on October 15th, 2012 at 10:32 am
Next time, if there’s not a “Homo Batallion of Death”, can I at least join the “Immoral Regiment”?
on October 15th, 2012 at 11:29 am
During my studies of the Civil War, I often found myself rooting for the Whites, not for political reason (they weren’t terribly fond of we Jews…), but for the simple fact that so many of their leaders were such astonishing bumblers and fools that their antics proved to quite entertaining.
I think it would be difficult to find a more laughable (anti?)-heroic character than Admiral Kolchak in all twentieth century military history. His story is just so damned funny. And sad.
on October 15th, 2012 at 12:56 pm
Someday you’ll be on a talk show, flogging one of your novels, and you’ll complain, ‘I once debated this guy named Ezra on the Internet and he ignored all my posts, even though they were so clever’. Then you will burst out into tears on live TV.
on October 15th, 2012 at 2:06 pm
“Ezra,”
What a pathetic little fantasy. But you’re the one writing fiction here.
on October 15th, 2012 at 2:12 pm
It looks like Ezra has reached the i’m going to go home and tell mommy stage of his tantrum.
Or he is going off to Blue Ball to look for the Third Reich Room.
Either way, don’t let the door hit you on your way out, my delicate teacup.
on October 15th, 2012 at 2:12 pm
Yeah but the thing is Ezra, that you DON’T ignore all our posts. In fact you try to respond to many of them, and you religiously frequent this board. Every time you make a checkable claim, it’s smacked down with ease. Why is that? It might indicate that your leaders, even the ones who dress in suits like Taylor, are lying to you. They’ve made a career off people like you who thrive on simple answers to complicated problems.
Furthermore, you always bring up things like Communism and the USSR, when they have nothing to do with the topic. I know in your fantasy world, liberals are supposedly fellow travelers of Communists, but historically this largely hasn’t been the case. The SPLC doesn’t advocate Communism or socialism, and at least in the US liberalism probably had a bigger hand in disarming Communism than conservatism ever had.
on October 15th, 2012 at 2:37 pm
Ezra when someone makes irrational insults, they are attacking the part of their own personality they have a hard time coping with. You were probably harshly treated for just being yourself, that’s my guess. That really sucks. But the past is gone. If you wanted to you could rewrite your life from this moment forward.
on October 15th, 2012 at 2:57 pm
Ezra_Mead said,
on October 15th, 2012 at 12:56 pm
“Someday you’ll be on a talk show, flogging one of your novels, and you’ll complain, ‘I once debated this guy named Ezra on the Internet and he ignored all my posts, even though they were so clever’. Then you will burst out into tears on live TV.”
….Snrk… Heh heh…. Hahahaha… BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA!!!!!!
Okay, I just made a fool of myself in class, but that was THE best laugh I’ve had in weeks. Oh, thank you Ezra, that’s comedy gold!
on October 15th, 2012 at 6:23 pm
JasonAnnieEzra said “Someday you’ll be on a talk show, flogging one of your novels,….
What I think you meant to say is that you will be on television flogging one of your novels, not one of ours. Anyway, I will save you the trouble, but should you honour your pledge you will not be flogging on of my “novels”. I write non-fiction, published, and available even in that shithole you call home.
on October 15th, 2012 at 9:08 pm
Business before pleasure:
The “Immortal Regiment” turned up in an article on the Russian Civil War in the July/August 1976 issue of “Strategy & Tactics” magazine, published by Simulations Publications, or SPI, to the wargaming cognoscenti. (Issue No. 57) The article was timed to the release of their multi-player game “Russian Civil War.”
It said, and I quote, having it in front of me, “Because of the low standards and general unreliability of most troops, all armies formed various elite units for carrying out important tasks. The Reds employed ‘shock’ battalions, often composed of foreign ex-prisoners of war. The Whites often formed special units with distinctive names, such as ‘Death’s Head’ or ‘Guards.’ Even such picked units, however, left much to be desired in terms of performance. Among the White forces in Siberia was the so-called ‘Immortal’ Regiment. It lived up to its name by fleeing whenever the enemy approached.”
The main article (and game) in the magazine was “Panzergruppe Guderian: The Battle for Smolensk,” which was one of their more successful games, a big 1941 battle between Army Group Center and the Soviets. Shelby Stanton and Victor Madej did the article. Jim Dunnigan and Redmond Simonsen, two titans of wargaming, did the game. I still have it and the magazine.
If I’m wrong, then my source is lousy, and such is life. But I remembered the “Immortal Regiment” all these years for that story. Glad I was able to track it down.
Now to pleasure.
Ezra/Jason/Annie: “Someday you’ll be on a talk show, flogging one of your novels, and you’ll complain, ‘I once debated this guy named Ezra on the Internet and he ignored all my posts, even though they were so clever’. Then you will burst out into tears on live TV.”
Hey, Jason/Annie/Ezra: At least Supersonic (or whoever you were writing to) will be the one counting the hard- and well-earned money for his legitimate literary work, while you’re still sitting in your parents’ basement, whining about how badly neo-Nazis are treated.
Now, don’t give me that horse manure about how you’re a “reasonable” person. Just so that I don’t misquote you, here’s your garbage:
“Then there is another category of very normal people, like Jared Taylor or Peter Brimelow. They are calm, reasoned, educated, articulate. It is this latter group I associate myself with. Peter Brimelow is very successful, writing for Forbes and other financial magazines. Taylor speaks four languages: Spanish, French, English, Japanese. Neither has ever advocated anything illegal or ever opined hatred for another group. Taylor accepts homosexuals and Jews. He considers these non-issues. His concern is preservation of western civilization and ending the flood of third world immigration.
Your mistake is you associate all of us together as one group. I would never be caught dead associating with a Bill White or a Hal Turner. I agree absolutely with you; those kind of guys are losers.
If you really want to understand us, start reading some of the writings of Jared Taylor or Peter Brimelow. You’ll see we’re probably very different than you thought.”
Really? Then we compare this with your own words, as CM posted, and I repeat:
Jason Smith said,
on May 3rd, 2012 at 11:20 pm
“What’s wrong with being a neo-Nazi?”
Then there’s this gem:
Jason Smith said,
on February 11th, 2012 at 10:06 pm
“America is an evil country. While our brave young men were fighting in the East to stop the Asiatic hoards [sic], America bombed our civilians. There were no German soldiers left in the cities near the end of WWII. There were only babies, old people, young children, women. Yet the Americans bombed these civilians. During all this time our brave young men were fighting against Communism. America is an evil country. America fought on the side of evil during WWII. And evil won that war.”
Who’s this “our” you keep referring to – unser Volk, vielleicht?
As for JasEzrAnnie’s understanding of “very normal people” and what “reasoned” means, there’s this memorable remark:
Jason Smith said,
on May 7th, 2012 at 12:17 pm
“FYI: I do not read any of your responses. I never click on your links. I am not going to do any work for you or answer your questions for free. I don’t do that.”
In other words, “Don’t confuse me with facts. Whatever you say, I’m going to stick my fingers in my ears and go, ‘Lalalalala, I can’t hear you.’ ”
And you say you don’t read our writing? Then why are you asking us for our life stories for your “web page?”
Better yet, why are you here? Haven’t you figured out yet that we all think you’re the biggest and funniest pile of stupidity since Tom Metzger tried to be his own lawyer when the SPLC sued him in 1990? Oh, wait…I forgot, you think that organizations like his are just FBI plants and jokers, not taken seriously. Well, somebody took them seriously enough to follow their orders to commit murder!
I’m talking to you, fella! *SMACK* *SMACK* *SMACK*
Here, read this again:
Who speaks lies? Let’s check out your own material:
Tell us how the Holocaust never happened!
Tell us how Stalin was going to mate German captives with apes to create monkey-men! (Or at least film a Soviet version of “Planet of the Apes”)
Then tell us how the Russian people greeted their Nazi invaders with flowers!
Then tell us how Norman Rockwell sided with Hitler!
Then show us your proof that the white man is superior to the black man!
And tell us again how you’ll prove it to us, only if we pay you vast sums of money, showing that you’re into neo-Nazism and junior Fascism for that noblest of purposes…the money!
Then you can give us citations and evidence for all these wacky ideas!
I’m talking to you, dummy! *SMACK* *SMACK* *SMACK*
You can say you don’t read what we write, but we know you do…if you didn’t, you wouldn’t be here!
See? I don’t even have to think in dealing with him/her/it…I just cut-and-paste my own stuff!
And he still hasn’t answered a single one of my questions!
And when are you going to do that profile of us? And if you aren’t reading what we write, why did you specifically ask us for those profiles?
I still need an e-mail address to send you my resume.
And tell me: the things you demanded we do: get married, join the military, save our money, buy a house, and get a better-paying job…when are you going to lead by example, and get out of your parents’ basement and do that very thing?
But we know why Ezra/Annie/Jason is here…after he’s done spouting drivel, he runs back to American Renaissance, and tells all his buddies how he was bravely standing up for the white race against those horrid Negroes, Communists, and Jews, waging epic battle with them on the internet. Yep, standing in the gap, just like Horatius at the Roman bridge or Maj. John Howard at Pegasus Bridge.
I also love his obsession with the Soviet Union. I guess he doesn’t know the Soviet Union had its “going out of business” sale only 22 years ago. And Stalin passed on to the next world on March 4, 1953.
I get more laughs out of Ezra/Jason/Annie than I do out of “Comedy Central.”
Tell us again why you’re wasting your time on “liars” and when you’re going to do those profiles of us!
And how about the Nazi use of slave labor. Alfried Krupp was the greatest slave owner in history, with even a special camp for the children of slave laborer as Voerde-bei-Dinslaken.
And if we’re all such liars and Communists, why are you still here?
And what do the Yalta Accords have to do with Hal Turner and American Renaissance? Nothing. Just to hijack the discussion.
So when are you going to provide us with that e-mail or mailing address for our 10-year resumes?
Hey, physician, here’s a suggestion: Heal thyself. Move out of your parents’ basement, take a shower, put on some deodorant, buy a clean shirt and pair of pants, and get a real job.
You have a better chance of working at Burger King than you do of achieving a “whites-only” state. And I’d like to see you fight a racial war. You wouldn’t last 10 minutes.
I’m talking to you, idiot! *SMACK*
on October 16th, 2012 at 5:48 am
Supersonic, actually Ezra said something so outlandish that the rest of the class and the teacher were probably breaking up laughing as well so you are likely safe.
That was almost a perfect response :)
on October 16th, 2012 at 9:41 am
Thank you, Kiwi, for enlightening us about the “Immortals”. If they got their name by being too cowardly to take casualties, though, they didn’t exactly stand out from the crowd, and Aron’s professor was right about why we never heard of them.
I can’t answer for Aron or Ruslan, but the august elder Russians I knew were two from the Black Sea and one from the eastern border of Belorussia, and a bunch of yellow Whites in Siberia wouldn’t have been high on their radar.
on October 16th, 2012 at 10:46 am
Erika: I wish… except for the fact that I read this article on my laptop in the middle of a class on semiotics: AKA, the most intensely boring subject known to mankind. Then I read Ezra’s remark and burst out laughing out loud, and pretty much broke any pretense that I was paying attention.
…I still break out in giggles every time I think about what he said, though. I mean, I know racists were IDIOTS, but I didn’t realize until that moment just HOW stupid they were.
…And I also get the warm-and-fuzzies in knowing that while I’m getting an education in such obscure and esoteric subjects as semiotics, Ezra probably flunked out of middle school after repeating the same grade four times.
on October 16th, 2012 at 11:42 am
Ezra might have been referring to my novels, but really, the only way he’ll ever come up in anything I write would be if some interviewer said, “Where did you get inspiration for that superlatively pea-brained frathouse committee?…”
on October 17th, 2012 at 5:31 am
Supersonic, oh you were actually being serious. How embarassing.
Maybe next time you should stick to playing Solitaire :)
i have a feeling that Ezra may have actually been “home schooled” by white nationalists parents.
on October 17th, 2012 at 8:45 am
The idea that he was schooled in the first place is laughable, Erika, considering his lack of any sort of common sense, self-awareness, or simple decency. The only “superiority” involved when it comes to him is knowing that for all my faults, I will always be a better person than him. :3
on October 17th, 2012 at 10:30 am
Being “home schooled” by neo-Nazi parents is worse than never having gone to school at all. Ignorance can be fixed much more easily than misinformation.
on October 17th, 2012 at 12:17 pm
When I look at the violence (beatings/humiliation of students by administrators i.e. “corporal punishment”) and poor quality of many public schools because the Republicans have this thing against teachers, sometimes I think home schooling makes sense.
In other cultures, where education is prized, teachers are well paid and highly respected. Here the Republicans try to dismantle the teachers’ unions, and do everything in their power to keep kids from being exposed to challenging ideas and to develop their critical thinking capabilities.
But my experience with people who have been home schooled is that they lack critical thinking and develop weird pesonality quirks, specifically with regard to their social responsibilities and relating to people. I don’t think they have the chance to develop their identities as citizens and members of society because they will tend to look at the world through a very limited scope.
Like Erika says, they end up worse than ignorant. They end up crippled with misinformation.
on October 18th, 2012 at 2:40 pm
aadila, of all the things that i simply do not understand one of the most vexing is how the barbaric practice of corporal punishment of children is still allowed anywhere in this country. Ingraham v. Wright is one of the worst Supreme Court cases ever. The majority of states have actually officially banned corporal punishment in the schools, but realistically its just changed its name. now they call it “restraint” and schools have turned heavily to using seclusion.
Having experienced both corporal punishment and seclusion (they called it “in school suspension,” but you had to sit at a desk in a windowless room by yourself so it met the legal definition of seclusion) in school i can say that both were awful and traumatic experiences. If anything, the seclusion was actually worse :(
The social isolation and lack of social development of homeschooling is a real danger – add in with the fact that much homeschooling is closer to brainwashing than education (many of the largest providers of home schooling materials are ultra right wing Christian institutions from the completely disreputable (Bob Jones University) to the semireputable (Liberty University)) and many of the white supremacists home school their children and you have a very bad combination.
on October 18th, 2012 at 7:34 pm
Erika I believe the answer to this questions lurks somewhere in the notion that spanking the buttocks is a symbolic sexual act of male frustration.
Generally in schools, we are talking about white men who have a deep neurosis about their unreliable appendage, who compensate for this by humilating and causing pain to children and adolescents, who are weaker and subordinate, and cannot properly defend themselves. The paddle is clearly a phallic object, and represents male authority, and the choice of paddling the buttocks should also be very obvious in its sexual nature.
Keep in mind also that these are long held social customs perpetuated by people who suffered the same, and like any cycle of violence, it will only stop when consciousness is raised about the long term consequences of this form of punishment on young people. In advanced societies and well adjusted families, corporal punishment is not common.
Corporal punishment is no less than a symptom of a greatly diseased culture, afflicted by the imperative of male dominance and aggression.
on October 19th, 2012 at 10:25 am
I just have to add a comment to raise the post count because I can’t stand seeing the number 88 on this site.
Let’s make it 89!
on October 19th, 2012 at 12:32 pm
aadila, the thing that i find most unbelievable is that some states by case or statute have actually specifically exempted spanking and other forms of “corporal punishment” from their laws banning sexual assault of children. Sexual assault statutes universally list the buttocks as a sexual organ and there is no question that if a person would spank an adult in a non-consesual* situation it would result in a sexual assault conviction. Those states know that spanking children meets the legal definition of sexual assault of a child yet they still refuse to ban it.
* okay, maybe the thing that i find most unbelieveable is that based upon surveys millions of adults are known to engage in consensual spanking activities for pleasure and some people still think that spanking children for punishment is proper. What is wrong with them?
on October 19th, 2012 at 1:05 pm
Erika,
On any given day, chances are you can find someone in your area who is into spanking on Craigslist.
I think this is a good enough reason to keep adults from doing it to kids in American public schools…but unfortunately, the religious right with their strange moralities seem to feel that engaging in sexual fetishes is alright in the name of discipline. In fact they think it’s how things should be because you actually have to opt out as a parent each year to prevent your children from being abused and humiliated by middle aged men with sticks and hungry eyes.
What I find odd about all this is that some states which allow this form of abuse in schools — which, by the way routinely leaves marks, welts, and bruises for days afterward — generally mobilize child protection services when such marks are left on kids at home.
I suppose this philosophy reflects the extent to which right wingers, especially in the South, are willing to give up their liberties to the state. Oddly, they denounce state meddling in family matters, i.e. giving children factual information about evolutionary processes, human reproduction, and sexual health.
Well, right wingers never made sense before, why would they now?
on October 20th, 2012 at 10:55 am
aadila, i wouldn’t know what goes on in those sorts of ads – the idea of getting a spanking from a stranger is very scary. Peach bottoms are delicate and bruise easily and therefore need to be handled with care in all circumstances.
Do you live in one of the states which still paddles children? If so, there may be little you can do about it – there is actually case law from some states which say that even if parents puts in writing that they do not permit their child to be paddled the school can still paddle the child and not be sued about it.
Remember also that the persistence of corporal punishment in this country is primarily due to the religious influence because of a misinterpretation of the Bible. Thus, to the people which advocate having the state being able to beat children in schools it is perfectly consistent with banning the teaching of evolution, requiring children to pray and read the Bible, absidence only education, banning access to birth control, and turning public schools into right wing Christian indoctrination centers.
Once its understood that to them “parental rights” means their right to dictate to every other parent how their children should be raised and educated it all becomes clear. Beating children into submission is all part of their attempt to control absolutely everything. In fact, much of conservative Christianity is heavy in the submission element.
on October 22nd, 2012 at 10:17 am
Erika has eloquently described the nexus between middle-aged pygophiliac disciplinarians and right wing ideologies in our schools.
on October 24th, 2012 at 10:16 pm
aadila, while the physical damage of corporal punishment to children can be severe, there can also be long term emotional damage.
Many adults who are “into” spanking actually see being spanked (and i might as well admit this includes me) as being a “need” because they need “punishment” for being “bad.” Yet, unlike the childhood experience in receiving corporal punishment that “punishment” is controlled and can be stopped if it hurts too much (and obviously you get to pick who administers it). i believe that while this is often considered masochism its not really masochism but instead a coping mechanism to deal with the childhood trauma of punishment by exerting control. And i know that when i think about my childhood i think that i must have been a really bad child to have been hit so often (especially as a white girl which is statistically the group less likely to be paddled in school) – a more rational explanation was that my mother is kind of crazy (she actually told me to be thankful that God created my bottom as a padded place for me to be punished on – seriously, so its not wonder i have such emotional issues connected to corporal punishment) and i grew up in the Bible Belt. One interesting note – while the wooden paddle plays a large role in American spanking erotica very few adults into spanking actually use it because it is too dangerous and has too much risk of serious injury.
There is also a strong link between severe corporal punishment of children and adult criminology. In just about every case of serious crimes there is mitigation evidence of childhood abuse – which is often horrifying. My belief is that spanking and other forms of corporal punishment should be viewed as sexual abuse because it has similar dangers. And realistically it creates too much danger of sexual abuse to allow any corporal punishment of children to be legal.
Thus, while it is right to focus on the extreme physical dangers of corporal punishment especially by the paddle the emotional dangers of corporal punishemnt of children should not be ignored. In fact, i think it should be primary in seeing why there is no safe level for corporal punishment of children.