The Hatewatch blog is managed by the staff of the Intelligence Project of the Southern Poverty Law Center, an Alabama-based civil rights organization.

New ‘Aryan’ Compound in Idaho to be Sold Off in January

By Bill Morlin on November 29, 2012 - 8:27 am, Posted in Klan, Neo-Nazi

The public foreclosure sale of property that was to be a new Aryan Nations and Ku Klux Klan compound in North Idaho is set for Jan. 14, court records show. The foreclosure will mean eviction for white supremacist Shaun P. Winkler, his wife and their small child, along with a small band of their racist associates who have been living on the site, unless they can come up with almost $70,000 by the scheduled sale date.

Winkler and his wife bought the land in Bonner County in early 201l, hoping to use the site to replicate the former Aryan Nations compound in adjoining Kootenai County. The buildings at the Kootenai County site were razed and the property turned into a cow pasture more than a decade ago, after it was sold in the wake of a court judgment against Aryan Nations, its late leader and several followers. Details of Winkler’s plans for his land are contained in an article in the most recent issue of the Southern Poverty Law Center’s  Intelligence Report, which was released on Tuesday.

In a follow-up interview Wednesday with a KREM-TV reporter from Spokane, Wash., Winkler acknowledged that he likely faces foreclosure and eviction. But he said he now has plans to continue working toward his goal after moving onto another nearby private property, which he said is being given to him by a retired Los Angeles police officer who he refused to identify.

The private timber company that sold the 17.3 acres to Winkler in March 2011 initiated foreclosure action this past September, about two weeks after learning he had logged and sold thousands of board feet of timber on the land in clear violation of the purchase agreement. Winkler also was several months delinquent in making purchase payments. When contacted by the Intelligence Report in August, Rick Dinning, president of Tungsten Holdings, Inc., said he had no idea the buyer was a long-time professional racist from Pennsylvania and former protégé of late Aryan Nations founder Richard G. Butler, or that Winkler had been logging the property.

Winkler, his sister and their itinerant associates also have been living on the property without a state-required “site permit” needed for discharge of human waste.  Regional environmental health officials launched an investigation after learning Winkler and his racist friends were living on the property without that permit.

Dinning said in August that he had “no clue” that Winkler, who has a criminal record, was planning to use the site to build a “whites-only” housing complex to replicate Butler’s former Aryan Nations 20-acre compound.

That original compound hosted the annual Aryan World Congress for much of its two-decades-long history and became an international rallying spot for racists, several of whom went on to commit various high-profile hate crimes, including murders, arsons, bombings and other acts of terrorism. The compound was sold at a bankruptcy auction after the SPLC, representing a woman and her son who had been terrorized by violent compound guards in a 2000 civil suit, won a judgment for the plaintiffs of $6.3 million.

Several would-be successors to Butler have attempted with little success to take up the Aryan legacy since his death in 2004, but Winkler seems to have been the most visible in North Idaho, frequently hold racists demonstrations. He unsuccessfully ran for sheriff in Bonner County last spring, garnering only 182 votes.

In between slurs directed at Jews, black people and others, Winkler frequently says in interviews that he still admires Butler and wants to carry on his racist legacy. He says he isn’t a “hater” but rather a “lover” of the white race.

But Winkler’s plans seem to have hit a wall, at least for the time being.

“We have begun the foreclosure process,” Dinning told Hatewatch this week when reached at one of his company’s offices in Libby, Mont. His company filed a “notice of default and election to sell” the property in Bonner County District Court, and has published a required foreclosure legal notice in a Sandpoint, Idaho, newspaper.

The property will be sold on Jan. 14 or revert to the seller unless Winkler can come up with $68,977 still owed, plus interest and legal costs from Dec. 11, 2011, when the delinquent payments started accruing, Dinning said. The foreclosure sale is set for 10 a.m. at Sandpoint Title Insurance Co. in Sandpoint.

After that sale, Winkler could still face a civil suit for cutting and selling 30,000 board feet of timber — an estimated six logging truckloads worth as much as $10,000 — from the Tungsten property without permission from the seller. Dinning was noncommittal when asked if he intended to pursue such legal action against Winkler.

  • Aron

    Yes Brock,

    Please show me the error of my ways. Please tell me who holds Dees and Potok in such low esteem. I get the feeling you will be listing folks of David Duke’s ilk.

    In short, you’re wrong.

  • Reynardine

    Respected and disrespected by whom? And I note your complaint against “lefties” is, in the alternative, that they are successful, or they are not.

    I have three degrees from real universities, own my own house free and clear, am not rich, and am quite old enough not to have to prove anything.

  • Gregory

    Aren’t we lucky that Brock arrived to show us the error of our ways?

  • Brock Henderson


    Morris and Mark are more highly disrespected than respected. I hope you realize this.

    Their salaries, net worths, and lifestyles are worth pointing out because it validates and confirms what all critics of the “limousine lefty” crowd – no matter their political stripe – have been saying about them for their entire existence. They are the rich, pampered, and privileged elite class, whose wealth makes them conveniently exempt from the effects that the policies they advocate have on the common people, the everyday middle-class American.

  • Gregory

    This is where you end up, JasonAnnieEzraEugene, questioning the salaries of the SPLC staff? I think the common sports term for that is “jock sniffer”. I would use worse, but why make the moderator’s job any more difficult.


  • Aron


    Who cares how much they make? Dees is the senior partner of a law firm known as the Southern Poverty Law Center.

    Potok is a highly respected journalist.

    I would say their salaries are justified.

    Now how much do you make as a ‘college professor?’

  • Eugene

    ADM, Ruslan, Kiwi, all the rest,

    You guys have got to realize the SPLC is a scam. Morris Dees makes a huge salary and lives in a mansion. That whole organization is a money generating operation for the people at the top. Do you know how much Morris Dees makes? Do you know how much Mark Potok makes? I do. Check it out. Research it on your own. Tell me what number you come up with. Then I’ll tell you. This is the big question: What are the salaries of these guys running the SPLC?

  • A.D.M.

    I guess Eugene have never white girls with large buttocks. Trust me, they’re not the result of surgery.

  • Kiwiwriter

    So, Eugene/Ezra/Jason/Annie…you DO read what we write!

    So here’s a little test for you. Please use a No. 2 pencil, and answer all questions.

    1. If you’re here to “debate leftists,” why are you ignoring their responses?
    2. If you don’t read “their posts anymore,” why are you here?
    3. How can you have their posts on “permanent ignore,” when they’re put on a weblog, not sent in a stand-alone e-mail to you?
    4. When you have had a “real job and a wife and family, and a nice home and car he worked for?”
    5. Why should Ruslan Amirkhanov “go away?” Are you the webmaster of this site?
    6. How do you propose to enforce that demand?
    7. Do you seriously expect anybody to obey your demands at this point? You have already stated that we are “crazy,” so why are you issuing them?
    8. If Ruslan is a “crazy person” and you “don’t read him,” why should it matter if he is here or not?
    9. On that line, why should it matter what he writes? Is he ruining your life?
    10. You have repeatedly stated that what appears on this web page “does not matter” and is “not important.” Why, then, are you so concerned with it?
    11. Do you believe that freedom of speech only applies to you?
    12. What legal or racial theory is that based on?
    13. How are you such an expert on the lifestyles of leftists?
    14. According to you leftists “all probably live in a college town in a crummy basement apartment, doing drugs, with no job, never even had a girlfriend. They’re probably all gay, unattractive, effeminate, overweight slobs. Basically deviants. So they get mad when the see a normal healthy man who has a job, looks good, is clean cut, and has a real job and a wife and family, and has a nice home and car he worked for. So these losers are all jealous.” If “leftists” are “deviants” in the first place, why would they be “jealous” of others?
    15. Leftists include Theodore Roosevelt, Woodrow Wilson, Franklin D. Roosevelt, Harry S. Truman, and John F. Kennedy. Were any of them “gay, unattractive, effeminate, overweight slobs?”
    16. Leftist war heroes include Theodore Roosevelt (Spanish-American War), Harry S. Truman (World War I and dropper of two atomic bombs), John F. Kennedy (World War II), George McGovern (World War II), Al Gore (Vietnam), and John Kerry (Vietnam). Were they “gay, unattractive, effeminate, overweight slobs?”
    17. Does the term “projection” mean anything to you?
    18. In one of your many incarnations, you have urged your opponents to do the following: “I urge both of you to focus your lives on real world issues that will improve your lives, such as getting a better paying job, joining the military, getting married, saving up to buy a home, or doing anything that will make a real man out of you.” Have you done any of the above?
    19. If you have joined the military, please list your service branch, medals, and campaigns.
    20. You have also stated, “The posters on here are all a bunch of anti-white bigots and haters. They speak nothing but lies.” Why are you therefore continuing to engage “liars” in dialogue?
    21. Why are you so obsessed with the sexuality of leftists and whether or not they have girlfriends?
    22. You indicate that leftists are “gay.” Why would a gay person be “jealous” of someone with a “wife” of the opposite sex?
    23. Where did you gain you expertise in gay lifestyles?
    24. Why have you changed your sex in your names?
    25. You say that all leftists “live in college towns in crummy basement apartments, doing drugs, with no job.” By that logic, how do they pay the rent?
    26. You claim to have a Ph.D. and be a tenured professor. Where is that college and what do you teach, and what have you written for your dissertation?
    27. What do your colleagues and students think about your statement denouncing your “college town?”
    28. Does watching black women perform on music videos make someone an expert on black culture, or on the culture created by black musicians and white music promoters?
    29. Why, if you think that American blacks are not “your people,” are you so fascinated with black music videos?
    30. How does the behavior of black performers in music videos compare with the behavior of white performers in professional wrestling?
    31. Have you done any peer-reviewed or accredited term papers on the connection between music videos and the behavior of ordinary black and white people? If so, please provide the link.
    32. You are apparently well-informed on the sexual practices and movements of black women. What research have you undertaken in this field, and where can your reports be found?
    33. Did that research include sexual encounters with black women? If so, please list all of them, the types of encounters, positions used, the personal information about the involved persons, and whether or not these encounters were provided willingly or for hire.
    34. Did you practice “safe sex” during this research?
    35. How do you square these acts of miscegenation with Nazi racial laws that forbid such behavior?
    36. Have any of these encounters resulted in children? If so, are you supporting them?
    37. Does watching documentaries about remote African tribes make one an expert on African-American life?
    38. Are loud and pushy women in supermarkets a threat to America’s survival?
    39. Are loud and pushy black women in supermarkets a threat to America’s future?
    40. Are you being forced to marry or reproduce with loud and pushy black women?
    41. Why are you so obsessed with loud and pushy black women in supermarkets?
    42. Are these loud and pushy black women preventing you from shopping?
    43. Have you written a peer-reviewed academic paper on loud and pushy black women in supermarkets? If so, please provide the link.
    44. Does watching music videos featuring loud black women and seeing loud and pushy black women make you an expert on famine in the Ukraine in the 1930s?
    45. In what field did you earn your Ph.D. and where can we find your dissertation?
    46. You claim that you answer all arguments with data. Please provide links to this data, and show that it has met academic standards. (As a Ph.D. with tenure at a university, you must know what those are)
    47. Tell us how the Russian people greeted their Nazi invaders with flowers, with proofs and citations.
    48. Tell us how Stalin intended to mate captured German civilians with monkeys to create a super-race, with proofs and citations. Your statement: “In the closing days of WWII the Soviet army was an entire army of rapists. Stalin had a secret agreement with Churchill and Roosevelt to take 4 million German civilians as slaves to Siberia to work in the Gulags — German women, old people teenagers, children. German babies were even taken for medical experiments. Stalin has a nightmarish dream of breeding humans with gorillas to create a super race of human/ape hybrids, which of course, failed. Read yourself in the Yalta agreement. It says the Soviets can take civilians as ‘labor in kind’ — meaning SLAVES!” Can you prove this with documentary evidence, such as examples of this “super race of human/ape hybrids?”
    49. Why would “human/ape hybrids” be a “super race?” Would they be superior to, say, the Aryan race?
    50. Please give your academic credentials in biology and anthropology in support of this statement.
    51. Tell us how Norman Rockwell sided with Hitler, with proofs and citations.
    52. Please give your academic credentials in art in support of this statement.
    53. Show us your proof that the white man is superior to the black man, with academic citations.
    54. You have also told us that you do not associate with neo-Nazis like Hal Turner, and so forth. Yet you have also said, on May 3rd, 2012 at 11:20 pm: “What’s wrong with being a neo-Nazi?” You have also said, “America is an evil country. While our brave young men were fighting in the East to stop the Asiatic hoards [sic], America bombed our civilians. There were no German soldiers left in the cities near the end of WWII. There were only babies, old people, young children, women. Yet the Americans bombed these civilians. During all this time our brave young men were fighting against Communism. America is an evil country. America fought on the side of evil during WWII. And evil won that war.” How can you rectify this hypocrisy?
    55. What do your colleagues and superiors at your university think about you being a neo-Nazi adherent?
    56. As an educator, how do you treat Jews and blacks in your classes?
    57. Have you received any complaints from them for your racism or anti-Semitism?
    58. In an earlier post, you said you would prove your theories to us, only if we pay you vast sums of money. Does that mean you are only involved in neo-Nazism for personal gain? Statement: “FYI: I do not read any of your responses. I never click on your links. I am not going to do any work for you or answer your questions for free. I don’t do that.”
    59. Isn’t demanding money for personal financial gain in exchange for proving your cause a tactic of the Jews and blacks that you despise?
    60. Why are you using tactics of the very people you detest?
    61. Doesn’t behaving like a Jew or a black make you a Jew or a black?
    62. When are you going to provide us with that e-mail address for our 10-year resumes?
    63. You have said, “Someday you’ll be on a talk show, flogging one of your novels, and you’ll complain, ‘I once debated this guy named Ezra on the Internet and he ignored all my posts, even though they were so clever’. Then you will burst out into tears on live TV.” Care to explain this in 1,000 words or less?
    64. Isn’t a statement like the above an example of using the evil leftist debate terms of “epithets, slurs, invective,” and therefore not becoming a white nationalist and neo-Nazi?
    65. You have repeatedly said that you can create a website with your own worldview. Why have you not done so?
    66. If we are all crazy people, why are you wasting valuable time here instead of making your own web page?

    You will be tested on this material. Please fill in all the information. If you fail to do so, the questions will be repeated until you have completed the assigned test. If you do not complete the assignment, you must withdraw from the class. See the bursar’s office.

  • Reynardine

    Carlton Coon was, if memory serves me, in disrepute before he wrote that thing, and certainly thereafter.

    The only ethnic group that, under conditions of normal nutrition, consistently exhibits steatopygy is the San, and in their case, their usual state of nutrition is not what we’d consider normal. Much of the year they live in desert conditions; during the “good” parts of the year, they eat enough to store reserves, and storing those behind, rather than ventrally, as we do, poses less of an impediment to motion. This is neither primitive nor advanced; it is adaptive. You could not adapt to their environment. If you tried, there would soon be aizoaceous plants using your skull for a flower pot.

  • Supersonic250


  • adamhill


    Maybe the problem you have is with your own buttocks.

  • Eugene

    Oh, it’s very simple. I was using the Chaucer spelling. I was taking a break between classes and was typing on the fly.

    You need to read a book called, “The Origin of Races” (1962), by Carlton S. Coon. He was a professor of anthropology at Harvard university.

    The Wikipedia article I provided a link to does indeed state that the condition of Steatopygia occurs commonly in Bantu females. African Americans are indeed Bantus. The next time you’re in the supermarket or the shopping mall, I encourage you to begin observing these Bantus objectively. Many of the females do indeed suffer from the condition of Steatopygia.

  • adamhill


    Oh, great point, a rare condition exists amongst a fraction of people in a fraction of the tribes in Africa (designated by you as “primative”-sic), THEREFORE some black women you goggle at in supermarkets in the U.S. also have this same condition THEREFORE black women are also “primative”. Brilliant reasoning.

    But wait, you’re an idiot.

    “Primitive” is a bias-laden word which doesn’t really mean anything here. Define it better. Spell it correctly.

    The women in all those supermarkets (why especially supermarkets? why especially the Twinkies aisle?) you haunt probably are not even indirectly descended from those few tribes in Africa where this rare condition occurs. (not to talk down to you, but “Africa” is not “a big black neighborhood”–it’s a continent).

    Big buttocks seem quite often to be a symptom of obesity, a condition that especially troubles impoverished people of all colors and is mostly caused by bad diet of cheap, high-fat food.

    Even if all the nodes of your reasoning by a miracle held water, the plausibility that particular attribute somehow related with some level of “primitiveness” is about zero. Makes no sense.

    It’s hard to refocus when your social life is limited to those you encounter in the junk food and beer aisles of supermarkets, but there are actually plenty of black women who DON’T have big buttocks. Like Michelle Obama.

    Save the drinking until after you post.

  • Supersonic250

    Between Uda/John/the fake me/the troll/etc, Shane, and Eugene, I think we’ve fulfilled our quota of stupid for the year. God, they’re coming out of the woodwork recently.

  • Reynardine

    Supersonic, I think this fellow is trying to decide between “bottom” and “buttocks”, a decision which he thoroughly bollixed. If he is a PHD, then I am the president of NYU.

  • Supersonic250

    Also, seventh, you display a shocking lack of understanding of evolution, as there’s no such thing as a “more primitive race.” There’s no such thing as being “more evolved” or “less evolved.” Evolution is a gradual adaptation of a species to their surroundings or to their circumstances. And the fact that you don’t know this basic fact that I learned in MIDDLE SCHOOL horrifies me to no end.

  • Supersonic250

    ……………First off, it’s spelled “Buttocks.” Second, you’re an idiot, and you’re trying WAY too hard. Third, this isn’t scientific. If you’re a REAL PhD, you’d be presenting something other than this as evidence. Fourth, you’re an idiot and you’re trying WAY too hard. Fifth, you’re coming off as a pervert obsessed with that luscious black booty, which I don’t think your fellow racists will appreciate too much.

    …And sixth… Did I mention you’re an idiot and trying way too hard? Because you are!

  • Eugene

    The condition of large bottox in females is called Steatopygia. It occurred in primative human populations, and is common in African females today, proving even further they are a primative race: Here is a link showing a typical example:

    Next time you go to the supermarket observe the typical black females there and see how big their buttox are. They have the condition of Steatopygia.

  • Reynardine

    Erika, you are too wicked! I wish there was some way the Little Stammtisch could contact you without getting ourselves virused.

  • Erika

    You know that someone needs to mock our “white nationalist” Eugenics Eugene’s apparent admission that he spends a large amount of time at the Black Cat Theatre in Onancock and i am just the mean girl to do it.

    Too funny – the white nationalist who is obsessed with white women having sex with black men and pretends to be obsessed with the extinction of the white race (whatever that means) has admitted that he loves to stare at black women’s buttocks. See, a normal person would realize “you know, i find these black women attractive” but not Eugenics Eugene. No, instead like the slave masters in the South before him he believes “oh no! if i find black women attractive, that must mean that white women will find black men attractive – can’t have that, must become a white nationalist because those white women are ours.”

    Yes, the fear of interracial dating and sex has always been primarily nothing but treating women as property – of course, Eugenics Eugene no doubt wonders why he can’t get a date from any woman (viewing women as property is a good start).

    What does it also say about Eugenics Eugene that he believes that black people are stupid yet he admits to being attracted to black women’s sizable derrieres? Apparently he is really scared of the idea of a woman being equal to him which also explains why he can’t find a date.

    Naturally this explains why Eugenics Eugene has turned towards white nationalism – because he is just an angry impotent little man who just can’t understand why he can’t find his perfect little slavegirl to take care of him. Therefore in my theory, his primary ideology isn’t white nationalism or white supremacism or even racism.

    It is mysogny and male supremacy. Eugenics Eugene is a white nationalist due to him being a male supremacist – white nationalism to him is simply a way to keep the white women he views as his personal property in line. Its probably also his way to hide the fact that he secretly wishes that he was black because he believes then he’d have a bigger penis (and of course, white women would then flock to him because he’s so attracted to black women so in his little mind he believes that white women must feel the same way).

    For Eugenics Eugene, white nationalism is nothing but the highest expression of performance and size insecurity :P

  • Reynardine

    Brock, my apologies. I am working on a very small Android screen.

    The genotype of one individual does not change. The genotype of a lineage or population indeed changes over time. Your Afghan hound is an example.

    A year or so back, there was a newsclip about a soldier who managed to bring home a dog from the battlefield in Afghanistan. The dog was described as a “part-bred Afghan hound”. She was, in fact, a pretty representative example of a tazi- the ancestral gaze hound from whom our show Afghans were derived. Those dogs, used in hunting, were far shorter-coated and more ruggedly built than their show rin descendants. Less than a century of selection made them unrecognizable to casual observers as the same breed, and this was without outcrossing. With human beings, we are looking at millenia of migration and interbreeding. Tasmanians, said to be a pure “race”, were exterminated by invading colonists, who slaughtered the men and buried the babies up to their necks in order to knock off their heads with polo mallets; any remaining “Tasmanians” today descend from the bereaved women and their rapists. I promise you that any other relict pure “race” that survived into the last couple of centuries was some small group of islanders who suffered a similar fate. The remainder of humanity commingled, peaceably or violently, for tens of millenia before that. The very American phenotype has gotten both taller and more dark-eyed than the recruits measured for the Civil War.

    You can, of course, continue to describe human beings “racially” according to any parameter you choose, but that will not stop this process. And one day, an Afghan hound may throw a hairless pup.

  • Ruslan Amirkhanov

    Brock, if at one time Irish people are considered by “racial scientists” of the day to be a separate race from “Anglo-Saxons”, and then later in America they are considered “white.” Then clearly this is not a biological reality. Races are classified partially by phenotype, but also partially by culture and other factors. The terms “white”, “black”, and “Asian” have very specific meanings in the USA and certain colonial offshoots, for example, but they can be utterly meaningless in Europe, Africa, or Asia.

  • adamhill

    So, Eugene, you see a relationship between obesity (big buttocks) amongst black women you stare at in the supermarket and “not being oppressed”?

    Wow. What does “being oppressed” mean to you? Being forcibly starved? The conventional manifestations of oppression (job and housing discrimination, social ostracization, etc.) aren’t good enough for you?

    You also, in your unique interpretation of the scientific method, look at your “big butt data” and speculate that its related to something you call “primitive evolution”. What on Earth is “primitive evolution”?

    Seriously, I feel sorry for you.

  • Brock Henderson

    Reynardine, Brock is the name, thank you. Yes, the ways a government or community or just one person chooses to classify another person or group of people do indeed change. This no more changes a biological and genetic reality than my personal choice to classify an Afghan hound as some kind of breed of naturally hairless dog simply because all of its hair was burned off in a fire.

  • Erika

    i get the impression that the sum total of Eugenics Eugene’s research into buttocks was watching the video of “Baby Got Back” by Sir Mix-A=Lot (who he probably thinks is a real knight) repeatedly

  • Ruslan Amirkhanov

    Eugene, when you haven’t shown us a lick of data, don’t be demanding ours. Remember, you’re the one making a claim. The burden of proof is on you.

    “Ruslan: Yes. There are many historical examples of famine. For you to nitpick me about date in Ukraine shows lack of compassion.”

    Sorry but it’s not a nitpick, any more than pointing out that the Holocaust didn’t happen in 1937-38. The time is very important because when people try to claim that it was “man-made” one needs to consider a lot of historical context.

    ” You do not care about the millions who starved. Rather you pick at small details. There were actually two separate famines that occurred in Ukraine.”

    Unlike you, I live near Ukraine and I have been there four times. And from what I’ve seen over the last twenty years makes me far more concerned about the Ukrainian population TODAY and their future, not those who died in what was more or less inevitable.

    And actually there were three famines in Soviet Ukraine, the last being due to the war. It was the last of over 400 recorded famines in the region.

    “All you have to do, is go to the supermaket in America, or shopping mall, and you will see with your own eyes, there are a lot of really fat people. They are not poor. They are not victims. They are not oppressed. My answer to you is: go away. You have no understanding of people who truly suffered under famine.”

    This is one of the most childish, stupidest arguments I’ve ever seen. You actually believe that going to the supermarket and observing people is somehow scientific? You think that you’re not oppressed so long as you aren’t suffering from famine? Please, tell me you’re that stupid.

    “Again, I ask the question: In comparison to what? I saw a documentary on TV last week about blacks in Africa. They were living in mud huts with thatched roofs. No electricity, no running water. They were sticking bones through their noses and elongating their lower lips with wooden palates. They’re living in the stone age. ”

    Uh yeah, there’s the REAL scientific research there. Watching TV. The fact is that despite many problems in Africa which have long histories, Africa does have plenty of modern cities with running water and electricity.

    “Blacks in America are far better off than Blacks in Africa. I’ve seen many black women in supermarkets in America, they are really fat with big fat behinds, and many of they are really loud and pushy.”

    Wow, this is REALLY SCIENTIFIC!! I can understand why you ask us to show us our data. Was this part of your Phd thesis? First off, everybody in America lives much better than almost everybody in Africa, and in fact they live much better than many people in Eastern Europe and some parts of Asia as well. So what’s your explanation for that?

    ” I do know that the condition of large buttocks is a primary sexual presentation in primates. It’s as though these people have evolved in a primitive way. I’ve seen so-called music videos on American TV and there are many of these Black females, very fat, with large buttocks. They are loud and pushy with no manners. They are very aggressive. These people are not “oppressed”.

    Are you aware of what an ass you look like? Surely there has to be some part of our conscience saying: “I’m making REALLY childish, bad arguments here.”

  • Reynardine

    Incidentally, we have another anthropological misrepresentation from Eugene. Large buttocks are not only not the “primary method of sexual presentation” among primates; most primates don’t even have them. Apart from ourselves, only gorillas have well-developed glutes, which they need to hold their massive weight upright even occasionally. Some primates have pigmented areas, most notably mandrills; some anthropoid females develop oestral swellings; human beings do neither. Meanwhile, I am sorry if you are afraid of black women being rude to you in the grocery store. Perhaps, if you insist on staring at their buttocks, you should be less obvious about it.

  • Reynardine

    Eugene, because of the strictness of our Hays Office, I cannot adequately describe the effrontery of your coming onto our turf, spouting offensive matter, and then telling Ruslan to go away. Suffice it to say that, in making your equipment, several brass foundries must have exhausted their resources.

  • Reynardine

    Brook, genotype may be immutable, but “race” is not. In South Africa, during apartheid, there were recorded cases of “white” people being reclassed as “coloured” and subjected to the legal disabilities appertaining thereto, after they developed Addison’s disease (which darkens the skin). I could cite numerous other examples, such as the reclassification of Native American and previously “white” families in Virginia as “colored” at the beginning of the Twentieth Century, with their subsequent disenfranchisement: in the first instance, on the dogmatic belief that people were either “white” or “colored”; in the second, on flimsy evidence or none, regarding remote ancestry. Based on this arbitrary reclassification, quite a few people were sterilized. If you don’t believe me, read “War Against the Weak”, by Edwin Black.

  • Kiwiwriter

    I completely forgot, but I will take care of it:

    Hey, Eugene/Ezra/Jason/Annie, I counted the total number of questions about the incident on the New York Subway that you gave.

    You only gave two questions, but had five enumerated statements. Didn’t you learn to count while getting that Ph.D. from “Diplomas-R-Us?”

    Anyway, it turns out that Naeem is just a garden-variety lunatic, not a racist. He seems to have committed his horror because of the bats flying around his head.

    Which explains you pretty efficiently, as well.

    What happened with those resumes you wanted from us?

  • Kiwiwriter

    Anyway, Ezra/Jason/Annie/Eugene and Shane are just here for one purpose: to derail the discussion, so I’ll get back to it:

    The neo-neo-Nazis have to sell their compound? Tough beansies. That’s life in the paranoid compound game, folks. Next time, fill out ALL the paperwork before making the purchase. Caveat emptor and all that.

    Of course, these guys can’t really set up their own separate society…a problem with paranoids is that they need enemies, if only to excuse their own failures. Once their society starts falling on its ass, they’ll only have each other to blame, and they’ll start seceding from each other.

    Also, they won’t be happy unless they have their internet connection, so they can whine on Stormfront about Jews and “race-mixing.” I love how obsessed they are with the latter. Must be because they can’t convince girls to go out with them, unless they fork over the $500 up front.

  • Kiwiwriter

    Well, Shane, I apologize for not getting back to you, but I have a real life, job, and family, and don’t have much time. So with you I will be brief.

    You, not I, brought up the ideas of “melting pot” and “degeneracy,” so I will not waste time with your arguments, except to ask, how do you define “degeneracy” and “race-mixing?”

    As for this:

    “One gets the assumption from Kiwiwriter that to have racial beliefs, or stress biopolitics over geopolitics, that one is lacking in traits such as: love, compassion, respect or decency.”

    Yes, the people who have used racism, racial theory, racist acts, and racist behaviors do indeed lack love, compassion, respect, and decency, I stand on that, and if you scroll through the entirety of this very web page, which only covers the last 10 to 15 years of racism in America, you will find that people who put racist beliefs into action do indeed lack those traits. They can be judged by their hateful deeds and words, and they are a trail of pain, violence, sadism, and inhumanity.

    There is no excuse for these misdeeds, no justification for them, and their legacy is only pain…both needlessly inflicted upon their victims..and upon the actors. I will not hesitate to add that some of the greatest victims of racism are the racists themselves, who destroy the lives of themselves and their loved ones in pursuit of their ignoble causes.

    If you seek references and examples, Shane, read the entirety of this web page.

    So much for business, on to pleasure, my buddy Eugene/Ezra/Jason/Annie, who tells us that blacks in America are doing well because they are overweight, among many other hilarities.

    Obviously Eugene/Ezra/Jason/Annie doesn’t realize that the cheapest foods available are the least nutritious and most fattening, so if he/she/it sees overweight blacks, it doesn’t mean they’re doing well at all…it means they’re eating lousy food that does nothing but make them obese.

    However, we are still eagerly awaiting the following from Ezra/Jason/Annie/Eugene:

    1. Telling us where he got his Ph.D.
    2. Telling us where he teaches
    3. His explanation on why being a neo-Nazi is a good thing (thought I forgot that, did you?)
    4. Telling us how he managed to change his sex
    5. Telling us where we were supposed to send our resumes to help you “build a profile” on us!

    So, in the interests of consistency, I’ll give Eugene/Ezra/Jason/Annie the same response I’ve been giving him as he’s been rolling right along with his whiny drivel.

    Hey, Ezra/Jason/Annie/Eugene: I came, I saw, I watched your video, and couldn’t stop laughing at its fatuity.

    Anyway, you’re getting snotty little comments back at you, because YOU STARTED THEM! And no, you’re not a fake. We don’ t think you’re a fake. Distorted, stupid, idiotic, a cut-and-paster, dumb, a spouter of silly ideas, a coward, a fool, condescending, whiney, smug, a troll, a cretin, a misguided individual, a waste of the talents God gives to people, not armed with the good sense God gave maggots, an embarrassment to white people, someone who needs a real life and to get out of his parents’ basement, signed up with a silly cause, pathetic, entertaining, hilarious, and the biggest source of laughs on this site outside of Bungalow Boob.

    For example, Ezra/Jason/Annie, do you remember, a few blog entries ago, demanding all kinds of information from us for those “profiles” you were building? You asked for our sexual preferences, our arrest history, our debt levels, and our resume for the past 10 years.

    Now, you never made those profiles, didn’t tell us what it was all for, heck, you didn’t even give us an e-mail address or a mailing address where we were supposed to send our resumes for the past 10 years to! Where was I supposed to send that, Goofy? Fascists-Are-Us? Care of the Obseralzberg?

    And how about some of the other idiotic statements you’ve made? Take a look below. Remember spouting them? Do you expect us to give you even the slightest droplets of respect when you come out with such clangers? When you don’t answer our requests for proof and to back up your idiocies?

    We treat people who give childish and puerile outbursts around here with exactly what they deserve: snappy answers to stupid questions. No more, no less.

    That’s all you get, because that’s all you’re worth. As Corinthians says, it’s time you put away childish things. Don’t like the world? Tough. Live in it. The world didn’t turn out the way you wanted? Tougher. Get a helmet.Not happy that “minorities” are outnumbering whites? Go marry a girl who looks like Linda Evans, complete with shoulder pads, and raise a baseball team of kids on a compound somewhere, with like-minded looney tunes, totally separated from the real world, and see how long that lasts before it starts falling down from incompetence and paranoia. Nobody’s stopping you. Nobody even cares.

    Until you get a clue, and get some help, and start asking real questions, seeking real answers, all you will get around here will be derision and re-runs. That’s all you’re worth. To us, you’re just entertainment.

    So in that vein, here comes my standard re-run for you.

    Annie/Jason/Ezra/Eugene lives in a nice little house, right next to reality.

    I gotta tell you, though, this is a lot funnier than Bungalow Boob…he hasn’t shown up lately. I miss him.

    So Annie/Jason/Ezra/Eugene, what happened with those profiles you were building of all the members of this forum? When are you going to create that web page with your worldview and your biting, incisive, well-researched analysis?

    Anyway, here’s my stock response to Annie/Jason/Ezra/Eugene, just so that I can be “as constant as the Northern Star:”

    Annie/Jason Smith/Ezra Mead/Eugene is back again!

    Complete with revolving sex changes…here strictly to derail the discussion!

    So, Annie/Jason/Ezra Mead…do tell us how the Holocaust never happened!

    Then tell us how the Russian people greeted their Nazi invaders with flowers!

    Then tell us how Norman Rockwell sided with Hitler!

    Then show us your proof that the white man is superior to the black man!

    And tell us again how you’ll prove it to us, only if we pay you vast sums of money, showing that you’re into neo-Nazism and junior Fascism for that noblest of purposes…the money!

    Then you can give us citations and evidence for all these wacky ideas!

    Until then, the tumbrels await for you!

    See? I don’t even have to think in dealing with him/her/it…I just cut-and-paste my own stuff!

    I still miss Bungalow Boob, though.

    The Thurm be with you, Jason/Annie/Ezra/Eugene.

    And when are you going to do that profile of us?

  • Reynardine

    And now, Eugene, answer my question: do you ever sit on your fanny or not?

  • Reynardine

    Ruslan, though I do not believe you suffer fools gladly, your explanation to this one is not only comprehensive, your patience in offering it commands my admiration.

    I think Eugene has more or less confounded the Holodomor with events occurring a decade earlier, as a consequence of the Russian Civil War. Oddly, he seems to be unaware of those resulting a decade later from the German occupation.

    A further reason why malnutrition can be coupled with obesity is that people who undergo prolonged food deprivation experience a long-term change in metabolism that causes them to wrest every last calorie out of the food they eat and store it as fat. That is why concentration camp survivors often became morbidly obese on small meals in later years, and why drastic dieting is not recommended these days (You know, that famous Ten Days, Ten Pounds Off Diet? More like Twenty Days, Thirty Pounds Back).

  • Eugene

    Ruslan, Aron, Reynardine, et. al,

    Whenever I debate Leftists I ask the three things:

    1.) Compared to what?
    2.) What is the cost?
    3.) Show me your data

    This is how I deconstruct their argument.
    1.) Compared to what? >> Blacks in America certainly are well off. Compare with other societies, past and present. In the early 18th century it was still not uncommon to see dead babies on trash heaps in European cities. Famine was not uncommon. I’ve seen many Blacks that are very overweight, as many Americans are. Obviously, they are not poor. Anyone who is really fat, by comparison with historical events, is not poor. I’ve been in supermarkets and shopping malls in America. A lot of people are really fat.

    Ruslan: Yes. There are many historical examples of famine. For you to nitpick me about date in Ukraine shows lack of compassion. You do not care about the millions who starved. Rather you pick at small details. There were actually two separate famines that occurred in Ukraine. I will not waste my time with you. Look. All you have to do, is go to the supermaket in America, or shopping mall, and you will see with your own eyes, there are a lot of really fat people. They are not poor. They are not victims. They are not oppressed. My answer to you is: go away. You have no understanding of people who truly suffered under famine.

    Again, I ask the question: In comparison to what? I saw a documentary on TV last week about blacks in Africa. They were living in mud huts with thatched roofs. No electricity, no running water. They were sticking bones through their noses and elongating their lower lips with wooden palates. They’re living in the stone age. Blacks in America are far better off than Blacks in Africa. I’ve seen many black women in supermarkets in America, they are really fat with big fat behinds, and many of they are really loud and pushy. I do know that the condition of large buttocks is a primary sexual presentation in primates. It’s as though these people have evolved in a primitive way. I’ve seen so-called music videos on American TV and there are many of these Black females, very fat, with large buttocks. They are loud and pushy with no manners. They are very aggressive. These people are not “oppressed”. You are a crazy person. I want you to go away. These Blacks in America, they are not my people. I am not interested in them.

  • Brock Henderson

    “Irish people are considered white today, but they weren’t in the past.”

    Citizens in the U.S. of colonial-era ancestry felt animus, just as ANY nation or community of people will always feel, towards a fast-growing ethnic group of IMMIGRANTS, and codified those feelings into law in order to protect their own socio-economic interests. Then those feelings disappeared a few generations later when those immigrant groups lost their accents, and the Roman Catholic Church had clearly shown no inclinations toward war against all the Protestant countries using their loyal subjects in America. So, immigration, followed by the ethnic tension and conflict that comes with it, followed by assimilation, means . . . RACE DOESN’T EXIST? To the simple-minded race-denialist, yes. Good going, Bill Nye the Science Guy!

    “Moreover, a Turk or Arab is not going to be considered “white” by your average American no matter how closely they fit the phenotype.”

    Yes they are, by this American. They may normally be Muslim and a little darker-skinned than me, and those two characteristics make them quite different from me, but race is immutable no matter one person’s feelings toward another’s religion or literal skin color.

  • Ruslan Amirkhanov

    Gee Eugene, the more you write, the less you sound like a “real scientist!”

    “Black people in America are not being oppressed. Almost all have colour television sets, refrigerators, cars, electricity, and running water.”


    There are Kurds and Palestinians who have color TVs, refrigerators, cars, electricity, and running water. What kind of “science” do you do again? The kind that doesn’t require basic critical thinking?

    “They obviously have freedom of movement because they’re every.”

    They’re every WHAT? Aren’t you one of those types who whines about people not speaking English in America?

    ” And many Blacks are overweight. Anyone who is overweight is obviously well fed.”

    BZZZZT! Wrong. This theory was put to rest back in the 19th century. It is very easy for poor people to get overweight because cheap foods tend to have a lot of refined carbohydrates and sugar.

    ” There was a famine in Ukraine during the 1920’s and millions died, and they were all white people.”

    1. It was in 1931-32, also known as the 30’s.

    2. They weren’t “white” people; they were Ukrainians(and I’d imagine some Crimean Tatars, people you wouldn’t off-the-bat consider to be white).

    3. How does a famine, in an area which has a history of famine, make Ukrainians oppressed? The government was full of mostly what you would call “white” people, and Ukrainians were certainly not oppressed at all.

    “They benefit from welfare, food stamps, medicaid. There’s a vast array of social programs they disproportionately take advantage of.”

    Whites can take advantage of all those programs too. In fact, most welfare recipients are white, and that’s not even including farm subsidies. You already know this, which is why you put “disproportionately take advantage of.” You also forget that food stamps is a form of subsidy as well.

    ” A lot of Blacks are on welfare and food stamps.”

    Far fewer than whites. And whether white or black, what makes you assume these people are on food stamps because of their own decisions? Many people go on food stamps because they become ill or injured and can’t work. Others end up on food stamps because of a divorce or they get laid off. Many welfare recipients are the families of active duty military members who are serving abroad.

    ” The reason so many Black men are in prison is because they commit a lot of crimes and many are violent, are hooked on drugs, and have low morals.”


    ” 70% of Black babies are born out of wedlock.”

    I don’t know where you got this statistic but a similar statistic was debunked because the fertility of black married women had fallen so drastically.

    Eugene, it’s amazing how stupid and ignorant you are. And you’re trying to claim that “whites” are superior? Of course you are, because if being white is considered an accomplishment you’d have at least one thing going for you.

  • Reynardine

    Aron, thank you for spotting the isograph. Perhaps my own discernment flu out the window, or perhaps, like you, I assumed a non-American bigot would use different memes. But perhaps we should check his past spelling for consistency.

    And now to find out which side of the Pond he’s from. Eugene, do you, or do you not, ever sit on your fanny?

  • Gregory

    Do you still claim to be a real scientist? You’ve proved beyond any doubt that you are an idiot but you have yet to produce any credentials to back your claim.

  • Reynardine

    Eugene, you must be a committee, because, though your bigotry is consistent, the style of your stupidity varies from day to day.

  • Aron

    Eugene, judging by your spelling, you’re not in America. But considering you simply copied and pasted the screed above, I’ll issue you a pass on grounds of sheer, insurmountable idiocy.

  • Eugene

    Black people in America are not being oppressed. Almost all have colour television sets, refrigerators, cars, electricity, and running water. They obviously have freedom of movement because they’re every. And many Blacks are overweight. Anyone who is overweight is obviously well fed. There was a famine in Ukraine during the 1920’s and millions died, and they were all white people. I definitely see a lot of overweight Black people when I go to the supermarket or shopping mall. By either worldwide standards or historical standards, Blacks in America are very lucky. They benefit from welfare, food stamps, medicaid. There’s a vast array of social programs they disproportionately take advantage of. A lot of Blacks are on welfare and food stamps. The reason so many Black men are in prison is because they commit a lot of crimes and many are violent, are hooked on drugs, and have low morals. 70% of Black babies are born out of wedlock. Obviously a lot of Black men are getting their own women pregnant, then refuse to marry the girl or pay child support. I don’t think we as white people owe them anything.

  • Ruslan Amirkhanov

    I love Eugene’s latest post because I can see this moron using the same argument on Stormfront and getting all kinds of praise before he posted it here thinking, ‘THIS will show ’em.’ Now it’s my turn to break another heart.

    “1.) Do you believe this was an inter-racial attack? (some people say there is no such thing as race. Fair enough. If that is true, then there is be no way to identify the race of the attacker and victim. There is no such thing as ‘Black’, ‘Asian’, ‘White’. We’re all one race, the human race).”

    “Race” as you call it is a social construct based on certain physical features and cultural norms at a particular point in time. For example, Irish people are considered white today, but they weren’t in the past. In fact in the past “white” wasn’t so important as “Anglo-Saxon”, which was also called a “race.” Moreover, a Turk or Arab is not going to be considered “white” by your average American no matter how closely they fit the phenotype. In other words, race is cultural(hence, social construct), not biological. There is no proof that having a collection of genes which give you blond hair or blue eyes also confers those genes which make you more intelligent, athletic, etc.

    “2.) Should Naeem Davis be investigated for hate crime charges?”

    Hmmm…I don’t know. Is there any evidence that Davis attacked the victim because of his perceived ethnicity.

    “3.) Note: This is a perfect test case, because there was no ‘white’ person involved in the crime. Neither victim or assailant was ‘white’.”

    Uh, WHY is this the perfect case exactly? Oh, because of your idiotic arbitrary criteria. Ok.

    “4.) If there’s ‘no such thing as race’, and ‘we’re all one race, the human race’, then any hate crime charge based on race must be eliminated. Because there’s no way to ever identify a person’s race. Is the victim ‘Black’, ‘Asian’, etc … it’s impossible to determine because there’s no such thing as race. They were just human beings.”

    And you’re just a moron. First of all, nobody denies genetic variation within populations. The problem for you is that nobody can draw a line and say- “These people are white, black, etc.” The thing is though, that in America you say this man is white, this man is “Asian,” etc. In East Asia they wouldn’t divide people that way. A Korean does not see himself as being part of a “race” which includes Han Chinese and Japanese.

    “5.) No ‘white’ person must ever be charged with a hate crime again, because there’s no such thing as ‘white’. It’s an optical illusion. We all have a common African ancestor.”

    Tell me the truth- You got a lot of rep for this on Stormfront. Now how do you feel when it has totally failed in the real world?

    White Nationalism = Perverts, sex offenders, socially awkward dorks, pseudo-intellectuals, and con-men.

  • Reynardine

    Adamhill, it’s kind of like the difference between Santa Claus and Satan Claus. Neither one is real, but which one you believe in affects your behavior.

  • adamhill


    Of course, there’s such a thing as “race”, especially in the sense that people perceive race as a viable construct and behave according to their perception. Children believe in Santa Claus and therefore behave in certain ways based on that perception. Unlike with children’s perceptions of Santa, racists’ perception of race often involves especially nasty and destructive criminal behavior, so we have a hate crime category.

    Did someone drop you on your head when you were a baby?

  • supersonic250

    Eugene- Sorry, just realized that BECAUSE you’re an idiot, you don’t understand the term race-bias OR what a hate crime is.

    Y’see… IF the guy pushed the other guy into the train BECAUSE he was Asian… THEN it’s a hate crime and should be charged…

    …But he did it because he’s mentally ILL, and NOT because the victim was of another race… You massive TOOL.

  • supersonic250

    Eugene: I don’t know about the others, but I think we should refuse to even acknowledge you until you post that PhD or any sort of information that proves that you are, in fact, a “real scientist.”

    …Also, no, it WASN’T a hate crime because there was no race bias involved, idiot.

  • Aron


    It all depends upon intent. There is the possibility this was a bias crime, just as there is a possibility this was not a bias crime.

    I have noticed, though, that you have managed to duck every one of our attempts to verify your professorial status. Care to enlighten us?

  • Reynardine

    Well, Aadila, deer scat is bigger. Pig scat is particularly large, and characterized by an unpleasant odor.

    Now, now, Eugene, step aside and let the grownups work on the crime scene.