Brian Fischer IS mentally ill, but it has nothing to do with his Christianity… and frankly, I don’t trust him with anything more dangerous than a rubber band.

They are correct in that there is no universally agreed definition of an “Assault Rifle”. The previous ban involved specific makes and models and the manufacturers kept changing small details to get around it. There is currently a 16″ federal minimum length for rifle barrels, and extending that to the common 24″ of a .223 ” varmint” rifle might be the answer. Banning front pistol grips and anything over five shot clips would also still allow for practical uses agaist Coyotes and such. Wild boar, mountain lions and of course Grizzly bears will still eat you as you are shooting them with any .223 and you will need something larger. Legitimate and legal uses for firearms agaist civilian people are all as a defensive tool. These are designed as offensive weapons.

In the thread just prior, I referred to Dr. Rosen, a psychologist in Newtown, who sheltered several children who had fled the massacre at Sandy Hook. He has been villified; he has been called a “crisis actor” in a “massacre hoax” supposedly staged so President Obama can *take people’s guns away*, his address and photos of his house have been published around the Internet, and he has received death threats from all quarters:
^[8]

It is time the NRA, as instigators of this vicious fanaticism, was designated a hate group.

If Bryan Fischer said that the distance between classifications of Religious Extremists as Mental Patients is not that great , then in my humble opinion he is not far wrong .

If a firearm had 3 of 5 features it was classified as an “assault firearm” during Clinton’s legislation . Memory is bad but; folding or collapseable stock , flash suppressor , over 10 round magazine , and maybe bayonette lug . That’s five – but, standby for news as Paul Harvey use to say .

The gun fanatics do not stick at threatening members of Congress. ^[9]

So evidently Fischer is just fine with having a violent, paranoid schizophrenic running around with whatever kind of gun they can get? Just wait until a mentally ill shooter kills or maims people *he* cares about. You would think that the attack at the Family Research Council HQ last year would have made some of the religious right nuts think twice about the gun issue.

Rey, every significant event brings out nut job conspirlacy theorists including the Apollo Moon Landings. The NRA’s membership is vastly weighted towards respectable, responsible gun owners. The SPLC’s membership is likewise overwhelmingly caring, responsible individuals. Both groups have members who would not be missed if they were shipped to the Moon on a Saturn V.

Reynardine, you seem to have a pretty big mouth on this site so I’ll make it simple for ya. I dont much care who a person’s pillow partner is, isnt a battle I engage in,and I was pretty much pro-choice until I read up on the wholesale slaughter of unborns by those who use abortions as birth control and the devious administrators and workers of these abortion clinics, now “Not so much”
Dont like Unions very much and never did since witnessing the unbridled power and corruption they indulge in on a daily basis. Didnt begrudge immigration as much as I do today until I had to foot the bill for more criminal aliens being turnstiled thru the system on a daily basis either. But you read my lips very well and remember this. You and your groups even attempt to mess with my second amendment rights or try to split hairs on who can have what kind of gun and I promise you, I’ll mess with every attempt of the above mentioned groups for “pure sport”. and I wont be alone. You had better think long and hard before your leftest “radical” (your word of the day) groups come after my guns. Otherwise I might have to cut off at the knees any attempt You liberal loving agenda movers and shakers think your going to shove down my throat. on just about any issue. thats not a threat, its a fact.

But Sam, unlike the NRA the SPLC doesn’t feature insane draft-dodging, washed-up, former rock stars from Detroit at their national conventions, where they go on to threaten the lives of the President and the Secretary of State in front of tens of thousands of attendees roaring with approval.

They also don’t have an executive director calling government agents ‘jack-booted thugs.’

While many of the members of the once-respectable NRA may be sane, Wayne LaPierre is a danger to society. And until he is forced out by that sane contingent of the group (and Ted Nugent, as well), I will only look on the National Rifle Association as a dangerous lobbying group and shill for the gun industry. And I will never join.

Anobserver, oh I’m scared. Look at me shaking in my little boots!

Get a life, loser. And learn to spell.

An(al)observer, who the FOX do you think you are talking to, and who do you think you are fooling? You’ve done an earth-shaking job of mowing down all those little straw men you just set up. I’m not made of straw, and neither are any of the other regulars here. Go pick on something your own size.

Anobserver, I for one welcome different opinions as any site would get pretty boring with everyone saying “amen” all the time. But the Federal and State governments already have regulations about sizes and types of guns available. West Virginia restricts long gun carry at night, to stop illegal hunting. Indiana disallows sawing off a shotgun, even if the finished length is still legal. California recently outlawed any open carry on public lands, presumably because the mountain lions were hungry for more mountain bikers. If we are ever to force the governments to do their job and prosecute all gun crimes already on the books, and if we ever have hopes of all CCW permits being recognized from coast to coast, it will not be by threats of violence, it will be by the give and take of the existing political system.To the typical products of the Socialist Fantasyland that is American Academia, these harsh words only make all gun owners look like bullet headed lunatics.

Aron, I agree the NRA should strive to be more in line with mainstream America. There is another organization, Gun Owners of America, which I know very little about. Perhaps it is small enough that we can join it and stage a coup, er, I mean, steer it towards reality.

“Point is, tain’t Big Brother Barack’s nor any other candy-keistered-liberal-cream-puff’s business whether I do or not.”

Yes it is his business and it’s all of our business. Franckly I’m really fed up with the pissants that are toting guns and shooting innocent people like they did in Wisconsin, and like the children in Connecticut, the Colorado theater shootings etc, etc. And we have a growing movement of idiot racist who want to start a war because they have a black man in the white house. Get real! My only regret is that he hasn’t changed the color of the house we really do need something more exciting.

No we do not want to let people run around toting guns to kill innocent citizens because they are a different color than them or a different religion and if someone is putting together an noteworthy arsenal then we need to know about it.

And how can any Nazi call themselves a Christian? Perhaps someone should announce it live “Jesus is Jewish”. So I wonder what that makes his Father?

We need to stop the violence and idiocy that is spinning out of control in America.

And here is a charming story: ^[10]

Anobserver makes a perfect argument for gun control just by being himself.

It is interesting that folks such as Bryan Fischer are aware of and sensitive about the various connections between extreme religiousity and mental illness and religious delusions and fixations among persons who suffer from organic mental illnesses.

Extreme religiousity, like schizophrenia, has been found in some cases to have a genetic component. I get to see this in my own family. In some cases, the extreme views of such people, which include a lot of black-or-white thinking, can lead to violent and anti-social acts up to and including murder.

Also, some mentally ill people seize upon religious ideas or imagery, but they could as easily fixate on the messages they believe they are receiving from Planet Zargon or Major League Baseball. Religion isn’t really to blame here — although the prevalence of powerful, negative messages, such as anti-LGBT rantings, could add to the negativity and danger of the delusions.

Although I am not a Christian, I believe that the majority of Christians who AREN’T big proponents of the Religious Right and who roll their eyes over Pat Robertson’s insane statements and the idea that dinosaurs were included on Noah’s Arc, are not mentally ill because of their religion (they may suffer from depression or anxiety or other disorders, but these aren’t necessarily tied to their religious beliefs). I have to think that many of these folks must be cringing over the statements that Fischer and others are now making about guns.

I would say that the Religious Right has turned yet another corner on increasing the extreme craziness of their views. I hope that reasonable Christians, who comprise the majority, begin to call these crazies out or at least urge them to moderate their views–for all of our sakes!

anobserver — you sound like one of these people who has just sort of contracted into themselves (or shrivelled up, if you will) because you don’t wish to expend energy trying to understand the world’s complexities anymore.

While that is a shame–primarily for you–your not so thinly veiled threats against Rey and other “liberals” (personally, I prefer the term “progressive”) suggests that you have withdrawn into a state of impotent trantrums. We aren’t the enemy. No one here is trying to take your guns. But just as there are rules for traffic (you know, sticking to the correct side of the road, obeying stoplights) to prevent head-on collisions and the constant risk of broadsides, I don’t personally know a “responsible” gun owner who thinks that crazy people should be wandering around with automatic weapons. Do you think that sounds smart? Control and regulation only equal confiscation in the mind of the paranoid.

We don’t have to get along on everything in order to take steps to keep guns out of the hands of those who, because of criminal records or mental delusions, should have them. The “for us or against us” mentality is simply childish and it solves nothing. Please reconsider some of your thoughts on this issue.

Sam, your contention regarding the NRA being composed primarily of responsible gun owners is proven false by the fact that there has not been an uprising by responsible gun owners to remove the nutcases from the NRA leadership. Quite simply, the nutcases in the NRA are not some random David Koresh type out in Wacko, oopsie, Waco :)

The nutcases in the NRA are their leadership. When a group has been obviously run by extreme right wing nutcases for as long as i can remember, the most likely explanation is that the majority of members support the extreme right wing nutcases. The alternative explanation is that the NRA is an astroturf group for the gun manufacturers (and the Republican Party – see the 2009 race for Virginia governor if you doubt that the NRA sees party as more important that a politician’s position on guns and hunting) which does not operate in a democratic manner which means that the responsible gun owners have no voice in the NRA leadership.

On another note, did any of these Christian Right people ever actually read the Bible? Or as i suspect, did they stop reading somewhere in the Old Testament – probably someplace around Leviticus. They definitely do not appear to be very familiar with the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth.

“In the thread just prior, I referred to Dr. Rosen, a psychologist in Newtown, who sheltered several children who had fled the massacre at Sandy Hook. He has been vilified; he has been called a “crisis actor” in a “massacre hoax” supposedly staged so President Obama can *take people’s guns away*, his address and photos of his house have been published around the Internet, and he has received death threats from all quarters:
^[8]

It is time the NRA, as instigators of this vicious fanaticism, was designated a hate group.”

So that’s your reward in today’s society for performing an act that is a pure good, something that is a shining ray of light amid unimaginable horror…to receive death threats for doing so.

There is a lot of mental illness in this society.

“The NRA rises up in 1871 with three Union officers who had fought to end slavery, fought for civil rights, fought for civil rights for blacks,” Barton said. “And part of the reason is, they want blacks to defend themselves individually, use their individual right of self-defense against the Klan.”

This is a fine example of Barton’s method of perpetrating historical fraud:

First, decide what you want to emphasize among the many reasons Northerners may have fought in the Civil War (and what you want to de-emphasize, such as “preserving the Union,” “loyalty to the Constitution and the Founding Fathers,” etc.).

Next, impute your chosen motivations to three unnamed individuals whose actual views on “civil rights for blacks” may be impossible to determine today, and are certainly not likely to be known by Glenn Beck or any of his regular listeners. (For the record, the three men were William Conant Church, George Wood Wingate and Ambrose Burnside.) In other words, put your own words in their mouths.

Now you’re ready to take the leap into pure fantasy, and Barton does, claiming that these three prosperous Yankees essentially wanted to provide African Americans in the South with the skills needed to mount an armed insurrection. (And the reason the very successful NRA never succeeded in carrying out this program is …?)

Ryan’s response that the creation of the NRA had to do instead with “establish[ing] training standards for emerging rifle technology” is of course correct. Wingate in particular was a well-known enthusiast for standardizing and systematizing riflery, having written manuals for rifle practice and co-written “A report on the feasibility and advisability of some policy to inaugurate a system of rifle practice throughout the public schools of the country” at the request of the National Board for the Promotion of Rifle Practice.

In that report, published in 1906, Wingate’s (and his co-author’s) real motivation is clear from the following: “It is hardly necessary to state that the experience of our recent wars has pointed out that while there is no difficulty in case of war in getting all the volunteers that the country requires and they can be given a reasonable amount of drill in a few weeks, it takes a long time to teach them to shoot, and that unless they can shoot accurately they are of little value as soldiers.”

Barton is nothing but a liar, and anyone who believes him is doomed to the worst kind of ignorance.

Erika, I’m thinking the NRA leadership is so full tilt towards no more laws, no time, no how, because it sees a genuine threat from fanatics on the other side. People that never met a gun law they did not like, who live in well guarded, gated communities and have guns themselves, but consider the peons below them not worth protecting. An all or nothing attitude, and seeing everything as winners and losers, seems to transcend all types of world views. I like your appreciation of Jesus’ teachings. He had a lot to say about the “Religious Right” of A.D. 30, and none of it was good.

We need to be very careful in assigning mental illness tags to people. Remember that which we find strange isn’t always strange in other cultures. Our definitions fit within Western paradigms.
This people who are violent and who espouse hate towards people of different race, religion, etc. May indeed have mental illnesses amongst their leaders however it is also very likely that they are just that stupid.

Stupid is a hard thing to shake and it’s easily passed down from one generation to another.

“Hate for hate only intensifies the existence of hate and evil in the universe. If I hit you and you hit me and I hit you back and you hit me back and go on, you see, that goes on ad infinitum. It just never ends. Somewhere somebody must have a little sense, and that’s the strong person. The strong person is the person who can cut off the chain of hate, the chain of evil. And that is the tragedy of hate, it only intensifies the existence of hate and evil in the universe. Somebody must have religion enough and morality enough to cut it off, and inject within the very structure of the universe that strong and powerful element of love.”
Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

Sam, one thing that you should know about the NRA – according to the attorney who brought the Heller case, the NRA opposed bringing that suit. The NRA despite having a well funded Legal Defense Fund did not want to challenge the DC gun ban and actively discouraged any attempt to argue against the collective right/militia theory of the Second Amendment. They actively fought against any attorney or group who tried to bring such a case.

According to the attorney who brought the Heller case, the reason was that the NRA knew that the Heller case would be a disaster for them – mainly because they knew that either the Supreme Court would recognize the individual right theory and recognize that like all rights the SEcond Amendment is not absolute and subject to reasonable government regulation. Or the Supreme Court would based upon 200 years of history and understanding hold that the SEcond Amendment only protects a militia.

Either outcome would be politically disasterous for the NRA because with the Second Amendmetn recognized as protecting individual rights, their constant fears of firearm confiscation are revealed to be hollow. Quite simply, there can never be any confiscation of firearms – or an outright ban on personal possession.

The Heller case never called for an unlimited right to firearms – quit esimply, it would be idiotic litigation strategy since none of the Bill of Rights is unlimited. In fact, the plaintiff conceded that most exciting (and many non-existing) regulations would be Constitutional.

What is intersting though is when the Supreme Court took Heller on review, the NRA immediately used it to raise funds – even though they opposed the case and knew their gig would be up if Heller won.

The result is that the NRA has gone off into orbit – with there being no question that reasonable gun control will be constitutional – and with most gun owners understanding that confiscation and firearm bans cannot happen thanks ot the Supreme Court – the only thing left for the NRA is to exploit the fear of “low information voters” who simply do not understand that the NRA is simply spreading fantasy.

There will be no confiscation or banning of guns – nobody in the mainstream is calling for that. To pretend that it is still on the table shows that the NRA is doing nothing buy stirring up the most paranoid and unreasonable people around for percieved political gain. That is ulimtately a very dangerous strategy since the odds that embracing extreme anti-government conspiracy theories will result in violence among extreme anti-government conspiracy nuts is very high..

The similarity between the NRA who thinks that any gun control legislation equals total gun bans and confiscation and the religious right who thinks that not discriminating against homosexuals will inevitably lead to people engaging in polygamous homosexual marriages with goldfish should be noted.

In fact, it seems odd that Sam falls for the NRA nonesence when he so clearly understands the religious right’s nonesense – quite simply, it is the same nonesence of a slippery slope gone crazy.

The NRA is not perfect. Where the NRA is correct is that historically, confiscation follows on the heels of registration, with a corresponding jump in assaults and home invasions. Where the NRA is correct is that criminals will not obey any gun law, because they are (duh!) criminals. Where the NRA is correct is that only someone brainwashed by a failed educational system would believe that ” gun free zone” signs are like some sort of bulletproof force field and we are safer for them. I will agree that anyone who believes the nonsense spouted here, and spelled correctly, probably should not handle firearms, or even sharp scissors.

Sam, anyone who gets a gun illegally has gotten it from someone who had it legally.

” Where the NRA is correct is that historically, confiscation follows on the heels of registration, with a corresponding jump in assaults and home invasions.”

Evidence, please.

Concerned, the ACLU blocked mental illnesses from showing up on background checks, as was the original proposal, for privacy reasons. Perhaps nobody argued very much because it is so hard to define. Current proposals would leave it to the discretion of a person’s Psychiatrist, and are based on spoken threats, presumably on tape. This could result in fewer people seeking counseling. It could get out of hand completely with anyone believing in Creation, or God, being declared legally insane. That may sound appealing to a few on this site, but a different set of lawmakers could flip that over to make the definition of crazy anything they don’t like or want to scapegoat. In Communist Russia, anybody espousing counterrevolutionary opinions were carted off as obviously insane.

Sam, if you’ll pause for a moment to reflect…100% of the talk about “gun free zone” signs has come from guns rights advocates. This is a manufactured argument, a red herring: the use of the signs has never been proposed as a definitive solution to gun violence.

Your same argument applies to no smoking signs, crosswalk markers, traffic signals, don’t open except in emergency signs on airplane doors, elevator capacity advisories, speed limit markers, and sell by dates on perishable foods…

I find it amazing that the right wing is focused on these signs instead of the real problems of gun violence in America. Doing nothing, which is what the gun nuts propose, hardly seems like a better course of action than progressive policies aimed at stemming violence anywhere and everywhere we can.

Saying no is not the same as coming up with a solution.

Sam, gun confiscation has always (even before Heller) always been impossible under the United States Constitution – the Fifth Amendment prohibits depravation of property without due process of law. After Heller, gun confiscation is nothing but a paranoid fantasy.

In fact, were you too busy trying to correct my spelling or did you actually read what i posted about the NRA opposing bringing a legal challenge against hte DC gun ban? The NRA believed that a successful challenge would make their fear mongering about gun consfiscation in response to any gun control proposal to be unsuccessful as paranoid fantasy.

As it turned out, they underestimated the extent of paranoia in this country as connected to those hateful little phallic symbols known as guns, but if anything the NRA has broaded the sheer paranoia after Heller as a sheer survival mechanicism. Since anyone reasonable would realize that gun confiscation is impossible after Heller, the NRA is left to appeal to the most paranoid elements of society.

And however you spell it, the fear of gun confiscation is complete and total nonesense :)

What isn’t complete and total nonesence is the fact that the NRA is deliberately appealing to people in a way which increases their audience’s paranoia and ignorance. And appealing to the most paranoid elements of society is not only nonesencical, it is extremely dangerous.

And Sam, honey, don’t get me wrong i totally support the right to bare arms. Just not on a day like today because it is much too cold outside ;)

How will we know the good gun owners from the bad gun owners? Tax them all.

Let God sort them out.

Critics might read the NRA publications on line for themselves and not depend on second hand information. And, Erika, can I arm bears?

I can see that little has changed during my absence overseas. Sam, we have read the materials published by the NRA. That is the problem. I challenge you to point to any instance where registration of firearms in the United States have lead to the confiscation of said firearms.

I own guns. I am a veteran. And I am not suceptible to the crap that the NRA puts out.

Too many of us *have* read their publications, Sam. And bears are very well-armed.

Sam, a group can say anything they want – how they are judged is by their actions. And its well documented – through first hand information – that at the NRA fundraising controls all – and nothing raises funds like being constantly under attack

The similarity to the religious right should be noted here – in fact, the more i think about it, the more the religious right being allied with the NRA makes sense – both are fear based groups who are “constantly under attack” and both care more about promoting far right wing agendas than promoting their stated purpose.

And don’t be silly Sam – of course you can arm bears it says so right in the Constitution – but whether you have the right to possess bear arms is still in question :)

There is no need to conduct any kind of gun confiscation. If you take away the incentive for owning guns, gun owners will self deport.

Oh wait, that’s only supposed to work for immigration.

Hoo boy- swivel eyed gun nuts in bed with swivel eyed religious fruitcakes- definitely a marriage made in Hell!

And this is shocking why? Paranoid schizophrenic comes to mind when it comes to these village idiot right wing gun fanatics.

Confiscation has occurred in England, Australia, Canada, New Zealand and America during Hurricane Katrina.

I caution you again, Sam, that this spoiled child act is getting uncute.

And your point is, Sam?????

…that during the rioting and looting after Katrina, it would have been sooooo much better to just let innocent people get robbed, beaten and shot???

I am so tired of the delusional fantasyland that gun nuts live in and spout on about… “the pending martial law”… uh… ok.

Honestly, I sometimes wonder why the sane people even bother to reply.

Erika, You hit the nail right on the head about the religious
(I refuse to call them Christian) right. They call themselves
Christian but what they actually practice is Old Testament
Judaism, not New Testament Christianity. They use the
term “godly” instead of Christ-like, which is what we Christians are supposed to try to be. I have a sister (biologically only) who watches Fox and who could be a poster child for the religious right. I don’t know about “godly” but Christ-like she isn’t. She’s full of hate and envy but thinks it’s an “abomination” (fundamentalists love to use that word) to love someone of the same sex.
She’s mentally ill too.

Rey, you know nothing about me. Be nice or I’ll throw my pacifier at you.

Rey try not to come off as a morally superior fluffhead, to quote somebody around here. It will detract from your eventual karma, I understand.

Sam,
I know that reading comprehension is not your strong suit. Please re-read my comment. Your response does not answer my question. Confiscation following registration in the United States was the question.

Are you trying to tell me that firearms in New Orleans were registered prior to Katrina? Thus confiscation followed?

Once again, you are wandering into Kenyan Farthing territory…

Rey, I don’t mean to be flippant. Everyone’s opinions have some value to me even if I don’t agree with them. I do live well, but then I show up for work every day and do not mind getting dirt on me. Everyone in America lives a life of some undeserved privilege and I try to be mindful of that.

The coroner in Newtown has already admitted that no assault weapon was even used in the Sandy Hook massacre. Of course the controlled media will not allow you to know this because it doesn’t fall in line with their authoritarian gun-grabbing agenda! You know the SPLC has really shown their true colors with this article. They’ve implicated themselves as Christian-hating Zionists, which they actually ARE!

So the SPLC uses people like this Fischer guy and the Barton fella to justify gun control. I guess the SPLC doesn’t remember their families and forefathers then. Remember WW2? Poland? France? Italy? Austria? Ya’ll like dropping names, so let me give it a shot- Adolf Hitler.
Hitler pushed for gun control and look what happened to millions of innocent people in places like….Poland… France… Italy… Austria. They were brutally murdered.

I’m starting to lose respect for the SPLC. I’ll remember this the next time they come to me begging for donations.

TRUAryan, your name says it all. Quit lying for AH.

Carl, more SOS, and I don’t mean Soap on Scrubber. Gun laws were completely relaxed for “Aryans”. Those who were disarmed were the Untermenschen, and we have no illusions. If folks like Ollie North and Grover Norquist get their way, that distinction would be made here, too. No non-whitewinger would be allowed to own so much as a peashooter, and “original intent” would be used to justify the distinction.

Sam, don’t throw your pacifier, it’ll get dirty, and we’ll have to wash it before we give it back to you.

Aadila, I suggest you learn to crochet.

Carl, something tells me you’ve never given a red cent to the SPLC.

And you obviously know nothing of history if you think that a few civilian guns could have stopped the Wehrmacht. Just look at Paris in 1870.

Idiot.

Sam props for standing up to the bullies with good grace. I very rarely agree with anything you say, but I have always found you to be good natured, intelligent, calm, and thoughtful. I don’t like all the ad hominems especially since you are a minority voice in this circle.

“Aadila, I suggest you learn to crochet.”

That’s a good idea since I seem to be the only old lady around here who doesn’t get stabby.

“Hitler pushed for gun control and look what happened to millions of innocent people”

Carl, one does not beget the other. Correlation does not imply causation.

Sigh…

Just wondering if anyone of the religious right persuasion could tell me: who would Jesus shoot?

In the history of crime and school shootings how many have died? 200,300 max. 1 is too many but perhaps we should limit victims access to guns and large capacity magazines. But if that is good should we not limit airliner size and capacity also? If we had max 10 passenger planes and low powered planes we could have saved 3000 lives on 9/11. If preventing death and violent crime is your goal then any gun law that does just that you would support, like uniform conceal carry laws that have done that EVERYWHERE it has been tried. Guns were a protected right not for hunting or target shooting but to prevent a government from becoming tyrannical like in all the socialist stated of the 20th century where 200,000,000 or so human beings were killed by Stalin, Hitler, Mao etc. Has any one figured out why schools (gun free zones or target rich environs) are shot up and not police stations (gun rich and dangerous for wackos and criminals)??
By definition criminals do not obey the law and hence gun control laws only affect the VICTIMS!!! It provides for a target rich environment for criminals. It is you would think that those that carry guns or have armed guards(like politicians) want the rest of us disarmed and helpless from criminals and politicians. Every tyrant in history disarmed the populace. Lexington and Concord were British attempts to confiscate the colonists arms and we fought back. I am sure our politicians understand all that history. All the fascist dictators took guns away from the citizens. Hitler’s political party was the “National Socialist Workers Party” NSWP and his movement was known as “National Socialism” or Nazi for short. Hitler is alive and well in black face!

Mr. White, the Concorde was taken out of circulation before 9/11. Think about that.

M White

In any three year period in the United States, close to 90,000 people — give or take a few thousand — die by gun violence.

In the three year period of the Bosnian conflict, the most horrific war in Europe since WWII, between 100,000 and 110,000 people died to violence.

Your free-from-tyranny argument ignores the obvious fact that atrocity scale violence is going on right here in the good ole USA.

Our country has 8 times more gun violence than most of the countries with similar levels of economic and social development and comparable systems of government. How can that be explained?

And I quibble with your facts about tyrants. George W Bush suspended habeus corpus, which is by definition a tyrannical act. That act suspended the “right of rights”, the right upon which all other rights stand, and yet he took no steps toward gun control. Read my lips: correlation does not imply causation.

By the way, M White, one more observation on your sad festival of factual errors:

Mass shootings are NOT confined to gun-free zones. The Ft. Hood massacre took place at the most populous military installation not just in the United States, but in the entire world.

Thank you, please come again.

M White,

Disregarding your racist dig at the President, ask any reputable historian over whether the Nazis were actually socialists. Because they’ll tell you the were not.

And the Regulars were not trying to confiscate guns from the Concord powerhouse. They were trying to confiscate STOLEN CANNON AND POWDER.

Go away before you stab yourself with a pencil.

Aadila, I must point out that Ft Hood IS largely gun free. Just like nearly every other military base, the weapons at Ft Hood are largely confined to the Armory, and can only be signed out with a legitimate purpose. The only people who normally carry pistols are Military Policemen.

Things are different during wartime, but the shooting really didn’t occur during a war.

Here we go again. Mr. White thinks the Nazis were socialists due to their Party’s name, NSDAP.

By that logic, North Korea is both democratic and a republic, since the country goes by the name of the People’s Democratic Republic of North Korea.

Seriously, we need a Frequently Debunked Assertions for our misguided visitors.

Aron, who knew?

Well anyway thanks. It seems rather relevant to the argument in any case since a military base filled with armed combatants and civilian auxiliary is a far cry from an elementary school. If a military base can’t defend itself from shooters, maybe we ought to just shut the whole thing down.

Gregory, here’s the link for responding to the frequently encountered bullchip that Hitler was a socialist, courtesy of Hatewatch.

We should all bookmark it for easy access…

^[11]

To wit:

‘After the Nazi Party – or National Socialist German Worker’s Party (NSDAP), as it was officially called – was founded, multiple factions competed for influence. Between 1925 and 1927, Hitler was forbidden to speak in public. During that time, a pair of brothers named Gregor and Otto Strasser rose to prominence in the party’s north German branch.

The Strasser brothers were somewhat sympathetic to socialism. According to celebrated Hitler biographer Joachim Fest, they “saw the world as divided into oppressing and oppressed peoples” and called for an alliance with communist Russia against “the capitalism of Wall Street.”

The Strasser brothers’ influence waned after Hitler was allowed to speak again. Otto Strasser was expelled from the party in 1930 and spent the war years in exile. His brother Gregor was murdered during the 1934 “Night of Long Knives,” when Hitler purged his party of perceived rivals. According to Fest, Hitler by then had long since declared that the Nazi Party “stood for private property and justice.”

Fest explains that Hitler kept the word “socialist” – a “leftist label” – in the party’s name “chiefly for tactical reasons,” employing a kind of “prestidigitation,” or sleight of hand, that allowed “capitalism [to find] its true and ultimate fulfillment in Hitler’s socialism, whereas socialism was only attainable under the capitalistic economic system.”

Translated, this means that Hitler, a canny politician, kept the term “socialist” in his party’s name because it made some people feel good.’

The only problem I have is looking at history, and seeing how history repeats itself. Being born into the jewish faith, and having a surviving relative of the German SHOA only tells me one thing, OBAMA is very anti-semetic and his stance towards israel is pig headed. And his promotion of gun registration has a background forged with the blood of my jewish brothers and sisters. Many societies that had democide, started with mandatory gun registration which then led to confiscation. Mark Potak can not catogirize supporters of guns and rifles as being racist. If anything, i view gun grabbers as unsympethic towards the shoa and southern persons. The Jewish People have always supported civil rights. But, I don’t support this president, and its my opinion his actions will lead to a 2nd civil war. As a JEW, I pledge, I will stand by my southern brothers, provide whatever material support they need. Label me as wish, but the founders of isreal the airgune were called terrroist by the britsh occupiers of israel.

So Philip, your plan is to cast your lot with a bunch of Christian Right types who have complain about Jewish control of the media and “international bankers” right out of The Eternal Jew or The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion and who believe that the only purpose of Israel is to set off Armeggedon after which all Jews are all going straight to Hell?

You may well want to rethink that strategy.

Philip,

You don’t think the British were correct to call folks like the Stern Gang terrorists? You’ve obviously never heard of the King David Hotel bombing.

And you’re starting to seriously remind me of Judah Benjamin. And that is hardly a complementary comparison.

Philip, that word salad is not the most unappetizing thing you’re serving us. It’s that brain omelette entrée it accompanies.

I suspect “Philip” is running up a false flag. Nothing about that comment passes as authentic.

Why is the NRA not listed as a hate group? Or at least a domestic terrorist organization? What would be the process to have them designated as such?

Philip and others, i must admit i don’t know all the historical references, but have to say i am more on the side of the Jews. Maybe it’s because i am Christian. One persons terrorist is another persons freedom fighter. Which is which is defined by the victors that wright the history books and control the media. I have read that the Nazis first disarmed the Jews, eliminating their jobs then bankrupted them. finally demoralized them to the point of desperation. They offered the promise of jobs and good living just a train ride away. Of course they would want to freshen up after their long ride so the Nazis were so generous as to provide group showers for the Jews how willingly marched right in. We all know how that turned out. There are may parallels going on in our nations today. That is why this is not just a gun control issue. People are afraid and want the means to put up some sort of fight before they are taken to the showers. Many of them were also willing to live in DENIAL just like half of this counter is doing today. Lets hope Hitler has not been reincarnated.

As for hate groups, it is the gun-phobic that are all over the internet and Facebook talking about killing the supports of the 2nd amendment. Also putting up maps of licensed armed citizens in hope they will be attacked in their homes. Sounds like they are the ones committing hate crimes and terrorism to me.

Brian,

1.) All of the information that was published was public knowledge. Anyone could find it. It was hardly published to ‘provoke attacks.’ And please point out where anyone is threatening Second Amendment supporters. Just one link is all I ask.

2.) A terrorist is still a terrorist. Over forty people died in the King David Hotel bombing. Judah Benjamin was the slave-owning Confederate Secretary of State who fled to Europe after the Civil War rather than face his own countrymen. He was a coward.

3.) By obtusely comparing President Obama to Adolf Hitler you just lost the argument.

Read a history book, dammit.

Phillip, you might find the current end times theorizing by John Hagee interesting. Just don’t tell him I’m Gay, we’re gonna suprise him up there.

Brian, of all the paranoid fantasies i have ever heard, the idea that people who oppose firearms – and would thus be unarmed, duh – will raid the houses of gun owners to kill them may well be the stupidest.

Paranoia and firearms are a bad combination :P

In the nature you will never see an animal disarming another animal for the good well of the disarmed one…

I can put many historical examples of many nations that were disarmed, followed by the subsequent genocide of those people.

france during french revolution.
Rusia
china
armenia
vietnam

And south poverty law center want to disarm the american people…!

Go away, Barbarotico. None of us, even the dumb ones, are as stupid as you are. If you think you’re fooling anyone, there’s only person you’re actually fooling.

Gun Control was nothing more than Mind Control-the White House simply through it out there to misdirect public anger about the Nation’s Fiscal Woes…Like Family Feud-SURVEY SAYS-
Why has no one acted really on anything? Congress is plain out scared of their own shadow but darker and more sinister elements are at work and our Freedom is truly in jeopardy. Right Now,
Congress cannot pass much of anything after all of the real-time surveys are done and it is all about one question-How will the voters perceive their vote on any issue. Lobbyists also have entered a new era where their dark monies have put all of Congress and the White House under one giant bubbled insulated dome. So when the surveyor calls and wants to survey you, tell them you are already eating sardines and crackers…their backs are on fire to get your thoughts and you just pissed on them to help put out their fire…LOL
Without the surveys and Lobbyists, Congress might truly debate issues like it should be done but instead, they sit back in lofty high-roller chairs waiting for their staff to report the latest survey results and calculate how much money they can pocket on each issue. The more pissed the public is, the more money they pocket.
LBJ was right today more than ever before-Today in Washington, the Pigeons do fly upside down cause there ain’t nothing worth pooping on there…But the NRA does need to reel-in their talk about America is on its last leg before disaster-even for them it is a Money Game and with its ten million and 25 million dollar clubs the NRA is now offering, can a poor boy get an Amen? Also, why did LaPierre set the NRA’s gun activitists on point ready to deploy as if we were on the verge of destruction and he is directing a Napoleonic War-we are too young as a Nation to contemplate such stupid and idle rhetoric…think about all this stuff…dumb people love dumb stuff…and our fiscal woes-they are of a horrible “b” rated movie that is going from bad to super bad…but if we all eat sardines and crackers, so be it, they will still feed all of us lots of tv and multiple channels…LOL..remember this-too much of this today is nothing more than “Certified Hoe Ass Shit”(tell the surveyor this one too) and it rolls from the Top Millionaire down to the one with the least amount of millions…huh? And since when do you listen to a Surfer Boy and a Surfer Girl? LOL