The Hatewatch blog is managed by the staff of the Intelligence Project of the Southern Poverty Law Center, an Alabama-based civil rights organization.

Klan Rally Planned for Memphis, But Threat of ‘Thousands’ is Baseless

By Mark Potok on February 21, 2013 - 4:12 pm, Posted in Anti-Black, Extremist Propaganda, Klan

It began about two weeks ago, when a local television station in Memphis, Tenn., allowed a man with a hooded face, identifying himself only as “Edward” and speaking on what was apparently his own rear deck, to announce to the world that he would soon be bringing “thousands” of Klansmen to a protest with no date.

From there, the thin little tale morphed into something of a national story about what is being characterized as “one of the biggest KKK rallies of all time.” Articles have run in New York City newspapers and even abroad about the event, now planned for March 30 while officials weigh the Klan’s permit application, and national TV networks are considering covering it. Memphis Police Director Toney Armstrong is asking for help from local and federal law enforcement agencies. The NAACP has decried the event, and a local university art professor created a 600-member Facebook page called “Challenging the Klan’s Message.”

But is the rally — which is a protest of an earlier decision to rename three Memphis parks that honored the Confederacy, including one named after the first national leader of the Ku Klux Klan — really going to be that big? Not even remotely likely. It would be a surprise if the event drew 40 Klansmen, and it will likely be considerably fewer than that.

In the meantime, the group that organized the event — the North Carolina-based Loyal White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, created last year from the rubble of a group called the Rebel Brigade Knights of the Ku Klux Klan — is reaping a publicity bonanza. On its website, it claims that the Northern Mississippi White Knights of the KKK and the International Keystone Knights of the KKK will be joining its protest. All this began with a comment to WMC-TV from Edward, later fully identified by The Commercial Appeal as Edward Beasley: “It’s going to be thousands of Klansmen from the whole United States coming to Memphis.”

The Loyal White Knights are headed by Chris Barker of Pelham, N.C., who told The Commercial Appeal that Armstrong had suggested that the group could be liable for some $150,000 to cover the cost of police protection. Whether or not the chief said that, many courts have found that charging groups for police protection or insurance or similar costs is an impermissible abridgement of the freedom of speech.

The whole brouhaha stems from the City Council’s unanimous decision earlier in the month to change the names of Forrest Park, named after Confederate cavalry lieutenant general Nathan Bedford Forrest, to Health Sciences Park; Confederate Park to Memphis Park; and Jefferson Davis Park, honoring the president of the Confederacy, to Mississippi River Park. The bulk of the controversy has swirled around Forrest Park, in part because Forrest’s remains and an equestrian statute honoring him are also there.

The Memphis drama has provoked some unusual sideshows. Last week, a spokesman for the Sons of Confederate Veterans (SCV), a Southern heritage group that doesn’t like to see the Klan take up its issues, denounced the Klan’s plans even as he opined hotly that the names of the parks should never have been changed. “If the Klan comes to Memphis due to the inappropriate actions of the City Council,” a scolding Lee Millar told The Commercial Appeal, “then any results are entirely the responsibility of the Council.” He went on to urge the Klan to stay away from the city.

Millar acted, presumably, to protect the SCV from the racist stench of the Klan. But Millar may be closer to that group’s views than he lets on. In 2005, the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) revealed that Millar was listed as the contact for a band called Snowflake’s Minstrels that was to play for an event celebrating the dedication of a statue of Forrest. It turned out that Snowflake’s Minstrels were known among SCV members for the “wildly entertaining” “grand blackface performances” that they apparently regularly put on. Millar claimed he didn’t know why he was listed as the contact for the band and knew nothing about it — and then, in an apparent contradiction, added that the band had called him later to cancel its scheduled appearance.

Curiously, Millar was then a musician with something called the 52nd Regimental String Band, which specialized in Civil War era music and had recorded “The Minstrel Skit,” featuring two well-known black minstrel characters. Millar told the SPLC at the time that the two bands were not the same group, although another member of the 52nd Regimental String Band said that he had performed in blackface as a member of that band. But he argued that the blackface performance was not intrinsically racist and, in any case, had been done only to please audiences.

The man whose name both Lee Millar and the Ku Klux Klan want to see reinstated in a Memphis park is wildly controversial in his own right. Although the SCV and Millar, who is a member of the Forrest Historical Society, see Forrest as a great and noble defender of the South, they are utterly wrong. Forrest is rightly known as a great cavalryman who repeatedly fought against long odds, but he was also a violent, guttural racist.

In fact, Forrest was infamous even before the Civil War for becoming a millionaire by running one of the country’s most brutal slave yards in Memphis. During the war, he presided over the massacre of several hundred black Union soldiers who were attempting to surrender at Fort Pillow, Tenn. And after the war, Forrest, who had a richly deserved reputation for stunning violence, became the first national leader of the Ku Klux Klan and presided over one of its most violent periods. He disbanded the Klan only after it had essentially cleared the way for the imposition of Jim Crow laws.

Yesterday, The Commercial Appeal reported that both Barker and Beasley, the national and state leaders of the Loyal White Knights, said they weren’t sure exactly how many KKK members would attend, although Beasley said it could be as many as 2,000. Barker, however, was more careful, claiming that other protests were scheduled elsewhere at the same time, and that that “could reduce the numbers able to travel to Memphis on March 30,” in the words of the newspaper.

And that is the one Klan prediction you can count on.

  • Aron

    Hey Brock, I’ve got two words for you: GREAT ZIMBABWE.

  • Brock Henderson

    I’ll let you know, Erika, just how comfortable I am debating with a real woman, when YOU become one.

    No, I’m not going to trot out the “anti-racist = anti-white” line, because upon examination combined with a bit of logic, I’ve determined that it isn’t true. After all, there are many white people in this “anti-racist” movement. One only need look at the rantings and ravings of white “anti-racist” Tim Wise to see that he LOVES, indeed, WORSHIPS, himself. And he is white. It’s easy to put 2 and 2 together there. But anti-racist does mean anti-RIGHT. And anti-WEST. That very word – racist – was invented for the one purpose of casting shame upon conservatives and their politics. It is nothing more than a slur. Maybe, on the other hand, you can prove me wrong: Give me an example where a conservative can use that word for right-wing purposes.

    I don’t visit Stormfront. Neo-Nazism and white nationalism are anti-American and misguided ideologies, respectively.

    Uh, Erika, you ARE a bigot. You have displayed almost nothing but bigotry on this blog. I’m a bigot, too. We’re all bigoted against something and someone. It’s pretty easy to see that lefties are much more bigoted than most righties, of course, as evidenced by your immature rants. The questions we all must ask ourselves concern the implications and consequences of our bigotry.

    Oh, and you haven’t named a society of people originating in the Americas, sub-Saharan Africa, Australia, or Pacific Oceania that have been superior in their civilization to the West, at any point in time. Your own white supremacy is showing, Erika. If you want to pretend to be an “anti-racist,” you may want to cover it up.

  • concernedcitizen

    @Brock: I beg to differ, I don’t find Erika to be pathetic, yes I do find a great deal of humor in Erika’s postings. It’s delightful and makes me laugh. It’s a pleasant blend with the political rhetoric that Erika shares with us.

    Part of what I believe is causing America’s empire to rot are the outdated narrow minded philosophies that would dress innocent children in KKK pointed hooded robes. And those who embrace philosophies that would divide the good and civil citizens of this country by spreading it’s cancerous hate throughout the veins of their our states and communities.

    We have those that would like to stop the progression and evolution of mankind. An evolution that would, I believe, bring us closer together and have more of an opportunity to bring a greater peace for us all.

    But no, as long as we have the idiots running around stockpiling guns and weapons and reaping violence against their fellowmen and women they are just taking steps to assure that civilization has a hard time progressing to what may very well be our modern day paradise.

    We are plagued with individuals who want to see disharmony.

    Our economy is large in agriculture so we advanced in those areas. Of course Chinese are advancing in technology, how much land do they have to commit to agriculture?

    However, if everything we knew of our current existence came to a screeching halt I believe I would rather be amongst those who could raise food to feed a starving nation.

    Technology is best advanced on a full stomach.

  • concernedcitizen

    @Erika: I was reading your comments .

    “And even worse most of your male supremacist brothers are too busy trying to bring in mail order brides from South America and Asia because they think that they will be submissive and will tolerate being beaten and raped. Ask male supremacist hero John Wayne Bobbitt about how well that works. That will quickly disrupt the racial purity of your band of misfits.”

    This makes me think about a story that was run on television. It was a murder mystery until they actually solved it, the husband did it.

    He was a rich and successful Dr. who ordered a mail order bride married her gave her the very best and she took a job at the local mall, which he could not stand her doing. Turns out she wanted to work there to have time to sneak away to meet up with their gardener at the local motel.

    So this mans mail order bride starts doing his own gardener, and it made him so mad that he killed her. Well he almost got away with it but they found the fake souls he had glued on to the bottom of his shoes. Up to that point they had a hard time matching anything in his wardrobe to the foot prints they found at the crime scene.

    I guess we could draw a conclusion to this story as: you get what you pay for. And never buy a mail order bride that doesn’t come with an airtight return policy!

    Well Erika, I have had my fun at digressing from the topic here.

  • jixiang

    Erika,

    As an East Asian man I assure we will be the first to defeat your brand of liberal multiculturalism, and promote racial purity and ethnic nationalism worldwide. Feminism and minority whinging are what’s on the wrong side of history. You’ve only deluded yourself into thinking otherwise because the rich, decadent West lets people like you get away with it. Wait until we’re on top of the world, then let’s see you talk.

  • Erika

    Oh our little brockie apparently has decided to shift his strategy to goalpost moving and of course now trying to say that the people who aren’t white male supremacists are the real bigots. Apparently our little Brockie doesn’t understand that the principle talent of Europeans (and their American decedents, oopsie i mean decendents – the Native American population were their American decedents) was always stealing everything that wasn’t nailed down. And of course, that includes Central America and Sub-Sarahan Africa where all of the natural resources are under the control of large European and American multinational corporations – traditionally the Europeans and the Americans (especially the Americans in the Americas where the United Fruit Company was the primary mover) have made sure to get rid of anyone in those countries (literally we are talking death squads who take their orders directly from companies like United Fruit or Shell Oil) and often had CIA and U.S. Military (or equivilent European intelligence and military agencies) backing especially during the Cold War when they could call anyone who didn’t give the large companies who really rule the world what they want a communist. Even in more modern times they try the exact same scam but it is not always effective – Hugo Chavez became public enemy number 1 in America by standing up to Chevron and for his efforts the CIA tried to overthrow him and when they failed because the Venezulean people supported him rather than the multinationals the American media vilified him – so much so that even liberals who should know better swallow the corporate media driven line that his government was undemocratic because they can’t believe that people in another country would actually support a ruler who would actually use their natural resources for their own benefit and not merely to enrich the Top 1% in other countries.

    That adorable side of bacon brockie is flailing now. He trots out the old canards of the racist right thinking that he’s making points when really all he does is prove that he knows absolutely nothing about history and economics. The fact that he is now calling me a racist basically proves that he has run out of steam and like a typical male supremacist simply can’t perform when an actual woman is in the room. How long before he trots out the old “anti-racism is anti-white” cut and paste?

    no doubt the people on Stormfront and the Manosphere consider our little Brockie to be quite the intellectual but outside of his white male supremacist bubble he fires nothing but blanks.

    And Brockie honey, if you aren’t going to be buying any art from Princess Erika’s Bargain Art Emporium or looking like a fashionable Robber Baron thanks to Princess Erika’s Guilded Age Fashions i really advise you to have enough sense to stalk back to the manosphere and Stormfront where you can brag about your great conquest of me.

    i’ll even let you tell them that you made me cry (you don’t have to say that it was because i was laughing so hard at your stupidity)

  • Brock Henderson

    Erika, take a Midol and do some actual thinking for a second. With your brain, if you have one, not your emotions. Again, it is fun watching you pretend that your feelings about black and brown people are a total 180 from mine. Hmm, ASIAN countries are kicking the West’s derriere in the technology industry? What about the regions I asked about, Erika? Sub-Saharan Africa? Mestizo-dominated Central American countries? Oh, you mean you DO believe they aren’t as good at that stuff as whites and Asians! Got it!

    And America is a dying empire? Well we agree there, but you’re the one who seems to love it and constantly justify its existence with your Constitutional theories.

    Oh I get it. Military presence and war today in the Middle East IS an act of imperialism, but a military presence and war on your own soil and against your own people 150 years ago ISN’T. When the Feds do what Erika says, it’s good and benevolent humanitarian action, and when they don’t, it’s evil imperialism.

    Pathetic and hilarious, just like yourself.

  • Erika

    oh aadila did show up yesterday but not to play with that adorable little pig in a blanket brock but instead to try to restart a catfight. now i enjoy catfights as much as the next mean girl but its so much more fun to tear apart men’s rights mysognists especially when they are also white supremacists and secessionists.

    and brock, move to an island you’d be happier and likely less frustrated – there are some nice uninhabited barrier islands off the Maryland and Virginia coasts that are coveniently located to Onancock that would just be perfect to you since its pretty clear you already are a frequent visitor to there anyway . Admittedly some of them are wildlife refuges so chances are you won’t be able to pry them away, but maybe you can get your own little island where you get what you want. A world away from all of us “sluts” who use birth control and expect to be treated as equal in the work place who you hate so much. And seriously, brock, taking material from Rush Limbaugh who didn’t exactly help eliminate those “closet case” rumors by proving that he has no clue on how birth control pills function despite having been married 4 or 5 times to women and having no children. You’d be better off getting advice about women and sex from the gutter, the bathroom wall, Pat Robertson, funinsnow, 13 year old boys repeating what they’ve heard, the 20 something virgins in the “Manosphere,” and 1950s era Men’s Magazines than to get advice about women from Rush Limbaugh.

    Odd though, most of the Men’s Rights Mysognists are actually fans of women taking birth control since what they ultimately want is to be able to have as much sex as they want (never mind that for the Men’s Rights Mysognists sex is purely theoretical since no woman will have them – hence the pro-rape stance) without any consequences. Okay, they want the women to have to take consequences for having sex and sexually active women even marriages women who were virgins on their wedding night are still considered “sluts” and of course to a men’s rights mysognist all women are “bitches.” Somehow the Men’s Rights Mysognsts think it is consistent to want sexually liberated women yet see women both as having their only purpose to be sexual objects for men to use and believe that female sexuality should be under the complete control of men and enforced through beatings and rapes. Of course the way to obtain sexually liberated women is to let women have control of her sexuality. But no, they still cling to the same old sexual double standards where any woman who enjoys sex is automatically a slut (even if involved in committed relationships) and therefore worthless in their eyes. Of course, women who won’t have sex with them are all considered to be bitches and are also worthless in their eyes – and the majority of women (including their own mothers!) are both bitches and sluts to men’s rights mysognists because they are having sex with other people but won’t have sex with them. They dream of finding a woman who loves to have sex with them and then in the unlikely event they actually do, they reject her as being a slut which is unacceptable to a men’s rights mysognist. Its an ideology which practically guarantees frustration.

    Many of the Men’s Rights Mysognists are icky perv pedophiles who ultimately want to be able to rape and molest children without consequence. Of course, many of the White Supremacists are also icky perv pedophiles – as the large number of Kluxers, Neo-Nazis, and various hate merchants arrested for child pornography, child molestation, and rape provides witness to. Naturally there is quite a lot of overlap between male supremacists and white supremacists – both are totally driven by hate of the other and both are ultimately ideologies of impotence.

    Of course, merely moving to an island under the jurisdiction of the American government and the oh so ever sovereign Commonwealth of Virginia (just ask them – but don’t ask the people in southwestern Virginia, they actually like the feds but want to declare indepedence from Richmond – and of course, West Virginia actually did that) may not be good enough for you. No, you are likely to want your own little indepedent island – that is harder since most inhabitable islands – and even many unihabitable islands – have already been claimed by sovereign countries and that would not give you want you want – your own little island where Brock Henderson is the law and women have no rights and are there to serve men. Maybe you can get some of your mysognistic white supremacist/male supremacist friends to join you in a land where white men rule and everyone else is there to serve you – especially the women who are there solely to produce the next generation of the “master race.”

    Of course, your plan to create more white babies will still run into the fact that it is unlikely that any White American women will be willing to join your little island band of misfits. And even worse most of your male supremacist brothers are too busy trying to bring in mail order brides from South America and Asia because they think that they will be submissive and will tolerate being beaten and raped. Ask male supremacist hero John Wayne Bobbitt about how well that works. That will quickly disrupt the racial purity of your band of misfits.

    Further disruption of the racial purity of your band of misfits will result from your desire to bring back the old United States of white male domination – and of course because you white male overlords are too busy controlling everything and the white women will be too busy being pregnant you won’t stoop to do any work so you will bring back slavery. And since your band of misfits is White Supremacist it would not be acceptable to have white slaves, no you will be setting up a new Confederacy. And of course, you will like the antebellum plantations have female slaves to actually raise the children and do the cleaning and the like. And just like the antebellum plantations your band of misfits will soon decide that you like raping black women (sexism will prove to be more powerful than racism) and maybe even entering into consensual relationships with them (after all in your little island white women will be just as much slaves as the black women).

    And before long you know something – your little all white island paradise will become an interacial island with a mixed race population – and eventually the non-whites and women will gang up on the few remaining white males and demand rights and obtain rights and then they will control everything. In short your little all white antebellum island paradise will evolve into looking very much like the current United States that your band of misfits fled in the first place.

    Fortunately for you like your Confederate heroes you will be long dead by that point to see your white paradise crumble under having to share power with women and non-whites. But quite simply you are on the wrong side of history. You white males had a good run at ruling the world – from roughly 1600 to the present, but your day is past. Asian countries are slaughtering Europe and America in technical education, inventions, new technologies, etc. America is pretty much a dying empire whose primary role now is to be mercanaries for multinational corporations (mainly in the petroleum extraction industry). Fossil fuels are disappearing at an alarming clip and the current generation of young adults is the first American generation to have a lower standard of living than their parents and today’s children can count on a much worse standard of living then their grandparents enjoyed. The days where you could support a family on one income are extinct for all but the richest people in the world and now it is as likely to be the man who stays home to raise the children as the woman because the woman might be making more money. Europe and America due to low birth rates and trying to import cheap labor are now multi-racial states where the white male minority is going to have to learn to share power with the non-white and female majority. Yes, we have some throwbacks such as you – and the party of the white male corportists (The Republicans obviously) is so against sharing anything with women and non-whites (and also poor and middle class whites that they are wrecking the country so that they can keep their little power club in power. And its clearly understandable why some white men are worried – you are worried that when women and non-whites take control that we will treat you as badly as your kind has treated us for centuries. But that is not a rational worry because unlike you we are willing to share and act in the best interest of everyone.

  • Brock Henderson

    Erika, while it is fun to just sit back and watch white lefties pretend that they actually do feel completely different towards black and brown people than us stupid, backward, white redneck conservatives, when meanwhile all demographic evidence says that you don’t (did you guys hear that it was recently revealed a few years ago that “anti-racist” activist Tim Wise lives in a 97% white census tract?), I must continue this discussion further. When, during history, have the people, societies, and civilizations native to the Americas, sub-Saharan Africa, Australia, and Pacific Oceana been more advanced than the West? I’m going to enjoy this.

  • Aron

    Brock,

    You claim to have been ‘scouting’ this site for months, yet you conveniently missed the roughly five hundred comments expounded on the two posts related to the MRM? How very queer.

  • Reynardine

    Brock, I promise you, you are not well. You have a right to be sick, but be it elsewhere. Quit stalking Erika.

  • Erika

    Oh a variation on the normal move someplace that the White Supremacist thinks must be bad because they think that places are bad in those places not due to global economic forces but solely due to the race of people living there. It is always so adorable that these White Supremacists think they are actually making a point when they ignore the effects of personal income.

    And i make fun of the Men’s Rights Mysognists because they are whiny losers with laughable complaints about how men only control the vast majority of top government and industry jobs and most of the wealth but they are still under siege from women because they are no longer allowed to beat and rape women (and children) with inpunity. Basically its one of the most riduculous ideological complaints as well as one of the most odius due to the fact that it basically calls for total male domination of society and is often pro-rape.

    And of course, because you Men;s Rights Mysognists all have such obvious manhood issues and are so desperate for any sort of female attention so it is so easy (and so much fun) to get you worked up.

    i just am a bit sad that aadila is nowhere to be seen lately because she would have had so much fun with you Brock Henderson. you can’t handle one mean girl, you definitely can’t handle two :P

  • Brock Henderson

    Erika, yes, you seem to love berating and deriding fellas who subscribe to the whole “Men’s Rights” movement. Well I don’t, and I wasn’t aware there was such a thing until I started reading blog entries here. When women are outnumbering men at many a university these days, I don’t exactly need to look to any clubs or organizations to tell me that something is rotten in the state of Denmark concerning sex and gender in America. As for “covering up my insecurities” by embracing white supremacy, you’re right, I should follow the example of white lefties like you (I presume) who plan on moving to a Sub-Saharan African or mostly-mestizo Central or South American country very soon, you know, because you know for a fact that they build civilizations just as advanced as whites.

  • Erika

    Brock, i’m no psychologist but it sounds like you may well have some issues with commitment, fear of failure, or perhaps “performance” anxiety which leads you to intentionally take steps to make yourself as unappealling to women as possible – that way you never have to risk failure or risk having to enter into a relationship where you might be expected to perform.

    In fact, it seems that overall you have a fear of really entering into any relationships – like you believe that if people really got to know the real Brock Henderson that they wouldn’t like him. That is why you aren’t joining a group which agrees with you or trying to form a group.

    Basically you seem like someone who hangs out on Men’s Rights websites and reading White Supremacist literature because both of those places tell you that white men rule. That suggests a deep seated insecurity.

    You then take a highly moral look disparingly people who have normal healthy views of sex as an unsuccessful way to cover your insecurities regarding a potential relationship with a woman – just like the White Supremacy is a way to cover your insecurities dealing with society as a whole. The Male Supremacists in the Men’s Rights Movement tells you that men rule but are somehow under attack by women. The White Supremacists tell you that white men rule but are somehow under attack by minorities. Those ideologies then actually increase your insecurity which makes you even more angry and fall into them even more. The Male Supremacist stuff is even more damaging because it makes you completely hate women and makes it even less likely that you can ever develop a normal relationship with a woman.

    Overall you might be well advised to either seek counseling for those issues because i do not think that you are impossible to redeem or go move to a private island where you can be alone to wallow in your insecurity.

  • Aron

    Oh, sure Brock. Those quiverfull ladies are pining (PINING) for a Real Man like you.

    Maybe once you get a job and move out of your folks’ basement, you won’t have to keep paying those lovely ladies on the side of the road who you pretend want to have your many, many children.

    You make me weep for my generation.

  • Reynardine

    I was right, Brock. Your thought processes are charlie foxtrot through and through. Under the circumstances, that is exactly where you should be right now, instead of stalking Erika.

  • Brock Henderson

    “oh so now i understand brock – brock really is so delusional as to think that the 3 or 4 people in his Klavern would be able to take over the whole of Califnornia if Californinia would secede.”

    I JUST spent the last paragraph of my previous comment saying the exact opposite, you moron. And I’m not a member of the Klan. They’re buffoons, so far as I can see. They’re also into Hitlerism and neo-Nazism, I believe. I’m an American, so, I have no use for such ideologies.

    One of those real women you hate so much, at Quiverfull, is waiting for me one of these days. The womanizers and sluts of the world can have their flings, cohabitations, and sterile, contraception-laden intercourse all to themselves.

    concernedcitizen, no they don’t, and I don’t think they’d be crazy about telling me about their own racial pride organizations they might be into, or just the race-centered beliefs they hold, any more than I’d tell them about my own beliefs.

  • concernedcitizen

    @Ruslan, you stated: Ruslan Amirkhanov said,

    on March 9th, 2013 at 4:08 am

    Brock, you’ve never named your sources and its clear you have no understanding of the law, politics, or history. You’re a barracks lawyer and your history comes from self-published books found at gun shows and various websites.

    My response: Thank you Ruslan for shining a light.

  • concernedcitizen

    @ Brock, you stated: Anyway, in any place where blacks, Hispanics, etc. don’t have a problem with me, I can at least live satisfactorily amongst them.

    I started hating the Feds and supporting secession in January 2006, and Barack Obama is not black, you stupid ditz. A person with a white parent and a black parent is a mulatto.

    My response: interesting Brock, of course it does depend on the type of “white” parent and their genetic background. But for argument sake it was decided long ago that the blood from the black parent would dominate so I’m pretty sure President Obama has been legally declared Black.

    Brock, I also thought that I read where you are a white supremacist living peacefully amongst your Hispanic and Black neighbors.

    Are they aware of your beliefs?

  • concernedcitizen

    @Erika: you said in regards to Brock:
    he actually thinks that if states would seceed that they would be able to operate with only the white male minority having rights and everyone else (especially white women) being servants of their white male overlords.

    My Response: Brock may find this to be teasing him with grandiose imaginings he may have only previously found in his dreams.

  • Erika

    brock, move to your own private island – you’d be so much happier :)

  • Reynardine

    Sorry, Brock, Livermore is closed. You’ll just have to wait till they can squish you into Vacaville

  • Reynardine

    Brock, I’m so sorry they didn’t have an opening at Livermore for you. Hang in there. I’m pretty sure you’d be high priority, even in California.

    Folks, this is why parts of California are always trying to secede from other parts of California. I mean, and water rights

  • Erika

    oh so now i understand brock – brock really is so delusional as to think that the 3 or 4 people in his Klavern would be able to take over the whole of Califnornia if Californinia would secede. And of course, they will be able to reinsistute slavery and women, Asians, Hispanics, and Blacks would all be slaves to their white male overlords – and of course all of those groups be willng to give up the freedoms they have to basically become servants and slaves (maybe get the joy of going to work in a factory as a child or sending their children off to work in the fields). That without that pesky federal government around that somehow a state where non-Hispanic white males only comprise approximately 19% of the population will fall completely under the control of whte male minority and no one else (especially women) will have any rights. What a maroon!

    Of course, he probably realizes that is completely unrealistic and hopes that when his Klavern takes over California and gets them to secede that it would inspire other people in those “God fearing” red states that he was told to love so much would follow their glorious example and form a new Confederacy of Teabagistan or whatever. That somehow the few thousand (hundred?) people in the League of the South (which seems to be a large source for his information) represent actual Southern thought rather than being some pathetic losers who are still trying to fight the War of Northern Aggression.

    Of course, brock’s raging against birth control (which no doubt in his case is puirely theorectical because there is no way that any real live woman would be willing to have sex with him) makes it clear that in his ideal state that the role of women would be barefoot and pregnant – or when they get too old (or when they are too young) to have children they will be maids. Yes, rather than being an educated professional with the right to own property and vote and enter into equal relationships with men who respect me for my mind and body, i want to go become a maid/concumbine to a white supremacist loser who thinks i’m an idiot solely due to being a woman. And of course, millions of other women want that too and will rise up to bring the 3 or 4 guys in brock’s klavern into power.

    Oh wait a second, that won’t happen at all. Instead upon even suggesting such a thing to me in person Brock would learn first hand what it feels like to have a high heel stuffed up a most delicate part of his anatomy :P

    And brock, you still haven’t answered my question: are you and the 3 or 4 guys in your Klavern going to make it to Memphis for the big rally???

  • Brock Henderson

    Well, Erika, such documents as those I’ve been quoting tell us exactly what the Constitution means in such cases where we need help with interpretation. Now I know you desperately want me to shut my Debate on the Constitution book, throw it away, and indoctrinate myself with the writings and rulings of Warren, Brennan, and Blackmun, in order to do that. Naw, I’ll go the intellectually and Constitutionally honest way.

    All the powers of the Federal Government were GIVEN TO IT BY the people of the States. And they are explicitly LISTED. Powers reserved to the states, by their very nature, AREN’T explicitly listed, because, sigh, didn’t Madison go over this in that quote I posted from Federalist 45??

    I am a white supremacist, not a white nationalist. White nationalism discounts and apparently dismisses the multi-racial nature of America. Without the lessons learned from Native Americans, the colonists wouldn’t have been able to survive on their new terrain. Blacks were historically integral parts of Southern American culture, at least before Jim Crow. Not to mention all the work they did. America can in no way be called a white nation, so I’m not a white nationalist.

    And no, I’m fine with people of other races, at least here in the Sacramento Metro Area. Have you heard about the 2002 Harvard Race Relations study? It found that the Sac area is unique in its lack of racial tension and discord, and its abundant integration. Anyway, in any place where blacks, Hispanics, etc. don’t have a problem with me, I can at least live satisfactorily amongst them.

    I started hating the Feds and supporting secession in January 2006, and Barack Obama is not black, you stupid ditz. A person with a white parent and a black parent is a mulatto.

    You have to understand something about conservatives, Erika: we DON”T CARE so much about our political positions that we have to go make them a reality. That’s what distinguishes us from the Left. I’m not a member of any secession movement, you know. I don’t subscribe to any newsletters, give to any organizations, or anything. All of the beliefs I’ve espoused here – I just simply BELIEVE them, I’m not lobbying to get them enacted into law.

    Good point about California, and thank you, I have eyes, so I know it. Secession from the Behemoth on the Beltway would only be the beginning for the Golden Land, my dear. It should be broken up into about 10 different states after that.

  • Gregory

    Contraception and reproductive control are forbidden fruits? [face palm]

    Congratulations, Brock. You have managed to turn this thread, and every other one you’ve touched, into a discussion of you and your bizarre beliefs. You must have taken Oscar Wilde to heart when he said the only thing worse than being talked about was not being talked about.

  • Ruslan Amirkhanov

    “The means for the entire population of people – about 87% white at the time – to taste the forbidden fruit of contraception and reproductive control and hence have much less children, was unleashed upon them via Supreme Court ruling the same year as the 1965 Immigration Act . . ”

    Do you realize that 1. Birthrates always fall in industrialized, urbanized countries. 2. By the beginning of the 20th century, middle class white women had reduced their fertility by 50%? What liberal conspiracy made them do that?

    Brock Henderson said,

    “Just be honest, Comrade. Does “critical thinking” mean anything other than constant deconstructive criticism of the West, Christianity, and patriarchy?”

    Critical thinking means formal logic and examining claims critically for evidence. In other words, something you clearly don’t understand. It was largely bound up with The Enlightenment, something which inspired a few guys in the British North American colonies you might have heard about.

    “You REALLY HATE big fundamentalist Christian families, don’t you?”

    Actually I pity them, especially the daughters. They are kept like property.

  • Erika

    i still have the feeling that brock would be happier on an island :P

    and i have a feeling if the law that only white male property owners could vote in america was still in effect that brock wouldn’t want to leave. that is the most amazing part, he actually thinks that if states would seceed that they would be able to operate with only the white male minority having rights and everyone else (especially white women) being servants of their white male overlords.

  • Erika

    Brock, Brock, Brock, you obviously can’t give up can you? Seriously, what Constitutional law professors actually support your views (which include that Marbury v. Madison was wrongly decided)? Even at Liberty University or Regent University School of Law they would laugh you out of the building for making that claim. And those places exist solely to line Jerry Falwell Junior’s and Pat Robertson’s pockets by admitting people who lack the grades and LSAT scores to get into one of the reputable law schools in Virginia (oopsie, i mean train Christian right lawyers to work for Liberty Counsel and The American Center for Law and Justice).

    But why do you keep reaching for stuff outside of the Constitution rather than looking at the document itself? Have you even ever read the Constitution? i posted a link for you to read it above.

    Seriously, point to where in the Constitution it points to where a state can take its ball and go home (or secede if you prefer) if it doesn’t get its way? Where in the Constitution does it permit a state to throw a childish tantrum and run home to mommy (something which i suspect that you have lots of experience with) if it doesn’t get its way? If that really was in the Constitution you would be able to point to some clause which supports the right of secession. Don’t tell me what someone allegedly said (for one reason beause i’m not going ot trust that any quote you give is geniune) more than 200 years ago. That world of white men controlling everything solely by basis of being white men is gone. That world where America was isolated by large oceans and most people were self sufficient or bought their goods locally with only the ultra rich being able to afford imported goods is also gone. That you fail to understand that those people writing more than 200 years ago were living in an agricultural pre-industrial world where sailing ships, horses, horse drawn vehicles, and walking were the only coveyance options so that imported goods were extremely expensive and rare is only one of your failings. Hence, of course they would not think that giving the power to regulate interstate and foreign commerce to Congress was giving much power to Congress – the industrial revolution was just beginning in England at the time. Yet, they also were educated and highly informed people – they no doubt knew that the world was changing – they no doubt knew of the invention of the steam engine, Congress had been reported to actually see one of the world’s first steam boats, they had no doubt already read Adam Smith’s An Inquiry into the Wealth of Nations, they were also all rich people who could afford to buy imported goods – they knew that trade would be an important part of the future. They gave that power (today the most important power because almost nothing is produced and consumed locally anymore) Congress.

    Most people grow out of that “i’m going to go home and cry to mommy if i don’t get my way” stage (and even South Carolinia seems to have finally grown out of the “i’ll hold my breath until i turn blue if i don’t get my way” stage of life (it only took them starting and then losing the Civil War to do it) – but obviously you don’t. Instead, you are still fighting to maintain slavery in the 21st Century. Seriously, you are still fighting for the right to own other people as chattle property.

    Of course, you are nothing but an obnoxious white nationalist who apparently thinks that living next door to a black, Asian, or Hispanic person is tantamount to being sent to a concentration camp because you believe that white males should control everything solely on the basis of being white males. Yet you claim to live in California. Which really raises an interesting question – why would you support seccession when that would do nothing in a state where blacks, Asians, and Hispanics have a majority of the population (to say nothing of women). What a maroon you are! You actually want to take a step that will put you even more under the control of the people you hate so much. i mean, you really think that an independent California won’t immediately become way more liberal than the rest of the United States once you are no longer under the influence of the former Confederate States you worship so much? Are you really so delusional that you think that the three or four pathetic losers in your Klavern can take over a state of 54,000,000 people – the vast majority being members of groups (blacks, Hispanics, Asians, women) that you consign to the scrap heap? You really think you mysognistic white nationalist losers will do any better on the state level than you do on the federal level.

    Puhleaze, even in the former Confederate states you’d lose (and the former Confederate states aren’t going anywhere, trust me on this, SEC football is more powerful than racism in the southeast) and lose badly. Sure, maybe a few hundred thousand whiny losers sign a petition to seceed following the reelection of a black president (and does anyone actually believe that Brock was calling for secession when George Bush the Lesser was in charge?) – but in a country of over 250,000,000 people a few hundred thousand whiny losers aren’t going to get you very far.

    You are nothing but a whiny delusional child in a man’s body. Or what my high school history teacher (an actual conservative by the way but an absolutely awesome teacher) would have called a damn fool. The Constitution’s primary purpose was to create a stronger federal government which has the power to regulate interstate and international commerce. The lack of power to regulate commerce was the primary failing of the Articles of Confederation and the very survival of the United States was at risk. Rather than going their separate ways to become 13 separate counties as you would have done (a step which would have no doubt resulted in recolonization by someone) the people who formed the U.S. instead opted for a stronger Union.

  • Brock Henderson

    “I find many of the big families folks like you love to wax on about are nothing but broods of perpetually smiling, brainless, homeschooled morons with no critical thinking skills.”

    Oh yes everybody, Ruslan and his fellow Commies just love their fellow human beings, unless they are the kind who tend to be thorns in the side of their political agenda!

    Just be honest, Comrade. Does “critical thinking” mean anything other than constant deconstructive criticism of the West, Christianity, and patriarchy?

    You REALLY HATE big fundamentalist Christian families, don’t you?

  • Brock Henderson

    Uh yes, Ruslan, when members of one nation emigrate to another, it’s good for them to put their character traits that make them seem extremely alien, and especially hostile to, the native citizen population, in the past. Nations are different from each other, even those under the same civilizational umbrella. There’s one much more sensible way for different nations to sample each others’ differences – tourism.

    The means for the entire population of people – about 87% white at the time – to taste the forbidden fruit of contraception and reproductive control and hence have much less children, was unleashed upon them via Supreme Court ruling the same year as the 1965 Immigration Act . . . . oh yeah, just a coincidence, Ruslan. I’ll dispense with my paranoid conspiracism.

  • Ruslan Amirkhanov

    Brock, you’ve never named your sources and its clear you have no understanding of the law, politics, or history. You’re a barracks lawyer and your history comes from self-published books found at gun shows and various websites.

    “Good for you, Ruslan, for pointing out that a country’s native population tends to be rather distrustful and reactionary towards a large wave of immigrants, because, you know, said immigrants are just a little DIFFERENT from them! The key is ASSIMILATION – that kinda makes differences go away. ”

    Again, if you told that to someone who was anti-immigrant in the 19th century, they would have smacked you in the head.

    “That’s why by the mid-20th century you couldn’t tell most mid-19th-century Irish immigrant descendants from WASPs, except maybe in South Boston.”

    So it’s a good thing when people give up their culture and traditions? I’m confused, I thought you wanted to preserve those things, but apparently you want “Westerners” to have no unique traditions or culture. Moreover, assimilation was not a voluntary, peaceful process. It was enforced by discrimination, violence, and intimidation. It was not “hey, come learn about our traditions,” but rather “Keep in line and remember who’s on top or else.”

    ” The current immigrant wave will NEVER be ended with any legislation like the 1924 Immigration Act, just to point out the difference between then and now.”

    The 1923 immigration act didn’t stop immigration, it severely restricted it, mostly from Eastern and Southern Europe. It placed no restrictions on Latin Americans or even Africans, it’s just that in those days these people didn’t have the means to emigrate so much.

    ” The current wave of 1965 to the present was designed as a Final Solution on the American people.”

    Yes, because allow people to immigrate into a country is like lining people up and shooting them against a wall or putting them in gas chambers. Thanks for demonstrating to us once again what a complete whiny idiot who’s afraid of his own shadow you are.

    The 1965 immigration reform had nothing to do with destroying America. First, traditional European sources of immigration were either recovering economically or behind the Iron Curtain. Second, decolonization and industrialization in places like Africa and Asia, plus air travel, made it much easier for people from those countries to emigrate.

    But of course, everything is a conspiracy against you poor, white Christians!

  • Brock Henderson

    This is for you, Erika, my baby doll: At the 1787 constitutional convention, a proposal was made to allow the federal government to suppress a seceding state. James Madison, the acknowledged father of our Constitution, rejected it, saying: “A Union of the States containing such an ingredient seemed to provide for its own destruction. The use of force against a State would look more like a declaration of war than an infliction of punishment and would probably be considered by the party attacked as a dissolution of all previous compacts by which it might be bound.”

    Oh, and what’s this? There’s MORE? Between 1860 and early March 1861 right before Lincoln’s inauguration, Reps. Daniel Sickles of New York, Thomas Florence of Pennsylvania, and Otis Ferry of Connecticut, and Sen. James Doolittle of Wisconsin PROPOSED AN AMENDMENT PROHIBITTING SECESSION. That’s kind of unnecessary if it ALREADY IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL, now isn’t it?

  • Brock Henderson

    Again, Erika, I read and listen to actual historians, economists, and Constitutional lawyers, not clowns like David Barton and Glenn Beck. Don’t they have nary a degree in any of those fields between the two of them? I think we’ve been over this. I’m a conservative. Glenn Beck invoked the spirit of MARTIN LUTHER KING, JR. at that stupid rally he held a few years ago. Do conservatives do that? No, unless they believe they can still call themselves conservatives after giving in to the demands of the Left.

  • Brock Henderson

    Having just perused your comment history on this blog, supersonic250, I can see you don’t exactly have a level head on your shoulders, so I don’t blame you all that much for your emotionally-charged invective. But anyway the claim you made about me not citing sources is false. I love how you specifically listed the arguments Erika made, like I asked. Oh wait, you didn’t. Predictable.

    Anyway, the following is from the Derek Black thread here on this blog about two months ago. James Madison, during The Debate on the Constitution, is reassuring Patrick Henry that the proposed Constitution will not create a consolidated, fully-national, and unitary American state:

    “I can say, notwithstanding what the honorable gentleman has alleged, that this government is not completely consolidated, nor is it entirely federal. Who are parties to it? The people — but not the people as composing one great body; but the people as composing thirteen sovereignties. Were it, as the gentleman asserts, a consolidated government, the assent of a majority of the people would be sufficient for its establishment; and, as a majority have adopted it already, the remaining states would be bound by the act of the majority, even if they unanimously reprobated it.”

    Erika has been defending the Constitutionality of the current American government – one which has, of course, since 1865, eliminated the full amount of sovereignty left in the United States and hence rendered them functionally just provinces or counties. And if you think she hates this one – also from James Madison, from Federalist #45 -

    “The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the Federal Government, are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State Governments are numerous and indefinite.”

    - she is REALLY going to fly off the handle when I find and cite another Madison claim, that the Federal government would become tyrannical and cease obedience to the Constitution were it to forcibly suppress a state’s secession. Don’t worry Erika, for now I’m only 90% sure that I read that, and you can mudsling at me all you want in the meantime, then even more so if I admit I can’t follow through . . . but when I do find it and post it, ha!

    I would like the Constitution of 1789-1861 to be restored during the present day, ideally, although that is a pipe dream. Didn’t say anything about transporting myself back to that TIME during which it was in place. I wouldn’t be able to survive then any more than you would.

  • Erika

    what i really want to know is will blockhead (oopsie i mean brock henderson) make it to the big rally in Memphis?

    and yes i have run out of patience in dealing with his stupidty – i really try to be nice to people and educate even the uneducatable (as an attorney, you just have to shake your head and move on knowing that you did all you can do when confronted with someone who just flat out refuses to listen to your advise) but this guy is just beyond help.

  • Erika

    *sigh* responding to brock’s foolishness is more than one little peach can handle.

    in any case it appears that trying to educate him is a lost cause – even a simple concept such as 1781 coming before 1783 is lost on him and if he can’t figure out that even if the states were ever legally independent entities under international law (they weren’t even under the Articles of Confederation) that terminated with the ratification of the Constitution in 1789 he is beyond help :P

  • Brock Henderson

    Dubya and Cheney are villains for what they have done to America and for the image of its government they have created all over the world. The PATRIOT Act, Gitmo and Abu Ghraib are sickening displays of its tyranny. Do you realize it is your Empire that YOU apologize for which is responsible for those things? Where am I the one doing the cheerleading for detestable activities like that? Idiot.

  • Brock Henderson

    “His Brittanic Majesty acknowledges the said United States, viz., New Hampshire, Massachusetts Bay, Rhode Island and Providence Plantations, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina and Georgia, to be free SOVEREIGN and INDEPENDENT STATES”

    Free, sovereign, independent stateS – plural, Erika, not ONE sovereign independent STATE, singular. Thank you for posting the transcript of a document which served to prove MY argument.

    Let me give you a compliment, Erika: Your American Empire you love, worship, serve, defend, and apologize for in spite of the pathetic incompetence with which it is run by its rulers – this much can be said: you do serve it well and faithfully. The laughable talking points that its legal establishment tells you to deliver to the masses to justify its existence – you deliver them obediently, just like Earl Warren and William Brennan told you to. And Erika, I love a bit of comedy. I mean, your gut-busting line about how that document ratified by only a few states on the East Coast over 200 years ago – whose people did NOT worship politicians, celebrities, entertainment, and consumption like they do today, and who DID mostly adhere to the cradle faith of the West, Christianity, according to its most orthodox tenets – STILL IS the legal document in force and recognized by the American government today, from which it still draws legal jurisprudence.

    Hilarious, Erika. I don’t mind encouraging you to keep telling yourself and others that little joke. Your ability to say it with a straight face is inspiring, in a perverse way.

    The Caesars of Rome and their interest groups which gave them their power also served Rome dutifully, Erika. But it fell. Ditto Khan’s Mongolian Empire and Napoleon’s France and Hitler’s 3rd Reich. Remember that.

  • supersonic250

    EVERY SINGLE ONE of them. Why don’t YOU bring up a single piece of REAL evidence? Because Erika has been doing so all along and citing sources. You haven’t.

  • Erika

    Supersonic250, i kind of have a feeling that Brock may well enjoy that – many of those he man mysognistic armchair warrior types turn out to be devotees of the Women in Control Theatre in Blue Ball, Pennsylvania.

    i mean him being a devotee of being humiliated by women would be an explanation for why he keeps going after me. At this point, his challenging my legal knowlege its kind of like a mouse strolling up to a hungry pussycat saying “let’s fight”

  • Erika

    Good brock, come out of the closet as not only a racist and sexist but indeed a fan of tyranny. when your ideals of liberty include allowing a government to be able to kick down your doors, seize you, torture you to gain a confession. and send you to prison based upon a trial where you were not represented by counsel than you are a fan of base tyranny. Not a surprise since you are such a fan of slavery and believe that women should be property of men with no individual rights (or minds) of their own..

    And the fact that despite the fact that i am considerate to try to address you like a rational person with a capacity to learn despite all evidnce to the contrary should tell you that i’m not nearly as angry as you think i am. indeed, you disply the type of anger which will destroy you.

    Maybe you’ll feel happier if you were a subject of the King of Spain like you would have been in California in 1787 – although i think you’d much prefer the forner Spanish government of Generalissimo Fransico Franco as being much closer to your liking.. Although you would have no doubt liked the Inquistion.

    So since you believe in the U.S. Government of 1781, leave us Americans alone :P

  • Brock Henderson

    Good for you, Ruslan, for pointing out that a country’s native population tends to be rather distrustful and reactionary towards a large wave of immigrants, because, you know, said immigrants are just a little DIFFERENT from them! The key is ASSIMILATION – that kinda makes differences go away. That’s why by the mid-20th century you couldn’t tell most mid-19th-century Irish immigrant descendants from WASPs, except maybe in South Boston. The current immigrant wave will NEVER be ended with any legislation like the 1924 Immigration Act, just to point out the difference between then and now. The current wave of 1965 to the present was designed as a Final Solution on the American people.

    Erika, indeed they were. Care to point out where I said that I give a flying leap about individual rights, at least to the point where you do? When we get into Warren-Brennan-Marshall-Blackmun territory we’re not even talking about a rational dose of individual rights anymore, the way previous generations of Americans understood it. Now we’re entering the realm of radical individual autonomy, a concept which when implemented will eventually destroy the individual rights you claim to cherish and the communities of people who cherished them as well. Besides, other than the rights listed in the Bill of Rights – and you know, little lady, that they were never ratified by the people to apply to any government except the Feds, nor was the Incorporation doctrine ever ratified by the people of the States, even those which truly did Constitutionally ratify the 14th Amendment – why should I CARE about individual rights? I’m an American. Is that part of the American civic religion, an obsession with individual rights? Pretty sure it isn’t.

    supersonic250, is that so? List them, please. Each argument made by the Counselor which contained solid evidence which disproved my own. This ought to be good.

  • Ruslan Amirkhanov

    “How were the 13 new American states fully DEPENDENT upon each other, and not independent? Were Britain, Spain, Austria, and Russia no longer independent states in 1815, you know, since they had to join forces to defeat Napoleon’s France?”

    Absolute idiocy. If America had continued in the manner that it was like prior to the the drafting of the Constitution(to replace the articles of confederation), at least some of the continent probably would have been taken over by imperial powers, and parts of what is now the US might have ended up as agrarian Third World countries. Furthermore, Spain, Austria, Britain, and Russia were not merely countries, but empires.

  • Erika

    Brock, read:

    The Treaty of Paris (1783) recognizing the independence of the United States of America (as one entity, negotiated by the United States as one entity by John Jay, John Adams, and Ben Franklin)

    http://www.ourdocuments.gov/do.....transcript

    The Declaration of Independence (1776)

    http://www.ourdocuments.gov/do.....transcript

    (done colllectively among the 13 colonies)

    The Articles of Confederation (1778)

    http://www.ourdocuments.gov/do.....transcript

    (oh btw, even the Articles of Confederation states that the States of the United States are not sovereign states under international law since the powers of sovereignity were specifically given to Congress.)

    The Northwest Ordinance (again additional evidence even before the Constitution that the United States was always intended to be an unified government)

    http://www.ourdocuments.gov/do.....transcript

    The Virginia Plan (1787)

    http://www.ourdocuments.gov/do.....transcript

    The Constitution of the United States (1787)

    http://www.ourdocuments.gov/do.....transcript

    From the start, the United States always acted as a unified country and as the Articles of Confederation prove intended to have some degree of central government. There was never ever an intention to create 13 new countries, the goal was always to have one country. The only question was how strong would the central government be – and the answer was resolved in favor of a strong central government.

    Now if you want to point out that the founders could not have anticipated that giving Congress the power to regulate interstate and foreign commerce would effectively give them the power to regulate almost everything once transportation and communications technology improved you have a point. Its a very foolish point because the Constitution was in part specifically written to give the central government the power to regulate commerce. In a world where it took months to cross the oceans and a week to travel from New York to Philadelphia there was little interstate and foreign commerce. Of course, the founders were highly educated people – they no doubt knew of the invention of the steam engine – i’m pretty sure that Congress had even seen an early steam boat demonstrated – they knew that the interstate and foreign commerce would be increasingly important in the future. And they specifically gave that power to Congress and the federal government.

    If the founders could see the U.S. government today, they would probably be amazed that the government they created can function in a world where you can take the Acela between Philladephia and New York and be there in an hour or fly between Philadelphia and London within the course of a day. Not to mention a person in Philadelphia being able to instaneously getting prices from the Tokyo, Frankfort, and Sydney Stock Exchange and instantly communicate a buy order. But the government they created does function in such a world. That is a remarkable achievement that a document created in the days of sail and horses functions as essentially originally written in a world of jet aircraft and smartphones. Yet it does. No one sane would argue that the federal governemnt isn’t more bigger today than in 1787 – yet, its powers are essentially the same. The difference is that everything you buy and use now is now connected to interstate commerce. i mean, the fact that you are being educated by someone who lives on the opposite side of teh country from you should tell you something.

    And in any case, even under the Articles of Confederation the powers of sovereign nations under international law were given to the Congress and not to the individual states. Of course, you’d actually have to know something about international law to know that.

    And really, if you want to go back to the ways things were in 1787, i’d still be in Virginia and you’d be in a Spanish colony. Good luck with that :)

  • Brock Henderson

    Um, Erika, that’s like saying that a bunch of people who hold hands on a small cliff and jump out into a lake together for a summer swim are all one person. You know, because they did it together, to make one big splash that several separate splashes could not make. Or maybe you can argue to the contrary. How were the 13 new American states fully DEPENDENT upon each other, and not independent? Were Britain, Spain, Austria, and Russia no longer independent states in 1815, you know, since they had to join forces to defeat Napoleon’s France?

  • Ruslan Amirkhanov

    “Race and religion are common ties that bind, whether you accept it or deny it, Ruslan.”

    Religion yes, but again, which kind of religion? Christian? There are literally thousands of Christian sects around the world, and a few hundred in America alone. Many of them claim that the others are “wrong.”

    “Race” changes radically over time, and depending on where you are.

    ” We are all Westerners, though.”

    No, “we” are not. Western Civilization didn’t have thousands of wars and conflicts, including some of the bloodiest in history, because they were all “Westerners.”

    “Civilization is a common bond that different nations and nationalities share.”

    But radically different people often share the same culture or civilization while having utterly different culture than people who are genetically or ethnically similar to them.

    ” Oh, and are all immigrants the same? Is the current wave – one designed to never end, that is – of immigrants the same as the Ellis Island wave?”

    No look, I got it, you want only “white” immigrants. The problem is, if you had said that back in the 19th century, implying that Irish people could be good Americans because they were “Westeners,” your predecessors would have smacked you upside the head. And what do you mean “designed to never end?” Nobody planned America’s immigration to end in the past either. Sure they put restrictions on it but it almost never actually fully excluded anybody from immigrating if they had the means.

    “Brock Henderson said,
    “I obsess over actual WOMEN, those that are worthy of male obsession, those who are actually of use to a man outside of his workplace. Those who don’t view men as people they’re in a competition and struggle for power with. Erika is at war with men, and as such I pity her.”

    Oh I KNOW you obsess over women. Why do they always reject you? If only they knew their place, then they’d HAVE to put up with you and accept you the way you are without any reason for improvement.

  • Erika

    how telling that brock lists traditional “liberal” boogeymen justices William Brennan and Earl Warren (both appointed by Republican Dwight D. Eisenhower, btw) – both great champions of individual liberty. Yet he claims to oppose the federal government because it is tryannical. Right, you oppose tyranny so the boogeymen you attack are two of the greatest champions of individual liberty in American history. Ironically they also qualify as great champions of limited government since their rulings protecting individual liberty were aimed at restricting how government to infringe on people’s rights.

    Seriously, you can’t make stuff like this up. Its pretty clear that he is reading from someone else’s playbook because you have to be to refute the point you are making so effectively – likely David Barton/Glenn Beck, a white supremacist group, or maybe even the John Birch Society.

    Because he lacks sufficient understanding of law and history to realize what he read to come up with his theories is complete garbage and his theories are too bizarre (and obviously wrong in that he mangles even the most basic elements of U.S. history) for a self educated person to come up with on his own.

  • supersonic250

    Brock… Speaking as a feminist… The only males I’m at war with are jerks like you. You’re sick, buddy. You have MAJOR issues, and some serious psychological damage from SOMEWHERE. I suggest you seek out help and some SERIOUS therapy.

    As for Erika, you really shouldn’t pity someone who is wiping the floor with you and crushing every argument you make. My guess is that in real life, Erika could kick your butt too.

  • Brock Henderson

    Ruslan, when we open up a few books and listen to the voices of history, each of her Earl Warren and William Brennan-esque talking points are refuted and discredited, and she’s been posting a lot of them, so I’ve been rebutting them. Ha, a feminist lawyer? You think I obsess over someone like that? I obsess over actual WOMEN, those that are worthy of male obsession, those who are actually of use to a man outside of his workplace. Those who don’t view men as people they’re in a competition and struggle for power with. Erika is at war with men, and as such I pity her.