The Hatewatch blog is managed by the staff of the Intelligence Project of the Southern Poverty Law Center, an Alabama-based civil rights organization.

Slain White Supremacist Investigated in Murder of Colorado Prison Chief

By Mark Potok on March 22, 2013 - 8:42 am, Posted in Extremist Crime, Racist Prison Gangs

Colorado officials this morning are investigating the possibility that a white supremacist reportedly killed by police after a Thursday shootout and chase in Texas murdered the head of the Colorado Department of Corrections earlier in the week, The Denver Post reports. Tom Clements, executive director of the department, was shot dead on Tuesday after opening the door of his Monument home to a stranger.

The apparent suspect was identified in several reports as Evan Spencer Ebel, a 28-year-old Denver parolee who was shot to death Thursday after first wounding a North Texas sheriff’s deputy and then crashing his car during a chase that reached speeds of over 100 mph. Officials told the Post and other Colorado news outlets that the Cadillac Ebel was driving is similar to a car that was described by witnesses as waiting outside Clements’ home for about a half hour before the official was murdered.

Ebel was identified as a member of the 211 Crew, also known as the Aryan Alliance, a particularly vicious regional white supremacist prison gang whose size has been estimated at somewhere between several hundred and a thousand members, all in Colorado. A major, four-year racketeering investigation of the group culminated in 2005 with the arrests of 32 gang members and associates. One of them was Benjamin Davis, who started the gang in 1995, and was ultimately convicted of racketeering, assault and conspiracy and sentenced to 108 years in prison.

The 211 Crew may be most infamous for two of its members, Jeremiah Barnum and Nathan Thill, two men who were convicted of charges related to the 1997 bus-stop murder of Senegalese immigrant Oumar Dia. Dia was murdered, Thill once said, because he was “wearing the enemy’s uniform” — his black skin. Thill, who also shot and paralyzed a white woman who tried to help Dia, is serving a life sentence and Barnum, who was convicted of lesser charges, was killed by Colorado police when he tried to aim a gun at officers in a 2012 confrontation.

Officials have said that the 211 Crew was started by Davis initially after attacks by black inmates on white prisoners, but quickly morphed into a major criminal enterprise. Inmates seeking to join were reportedly required to attack someone selected by gang “shot callers,” and the only way out is to die. Once members were released from prison, they were required to earn money on the streets — dealing drugs and weapons trafficking, along with other criminal activity — in order to support gang members still in prison, who form most of the group, officials said.

A Department of Corrections official quoted by the Denver Post said officials are investigating if the murder of Clements was ordered by gang officials. “What’s not known,” the unnamed official told the paper, “is whether this was ordered or a crime of opportunity.” All Colorado prisons were placed on lock-down Tuesday night.

The case is the second recent episode in which officials suspect a criminal justice official may have been assassinated by a member of a white supremacist prison gang. On Jan. 31, Kaufman County, Texas, prosecutor Mark Hasse was murdered by one or two masked men as he walked from his car to the county courthouse. The men fled, but officials told The Dallas Morning News that Hasse had been “heavily involved” in prosecutions of members of the Aryan Brotherhood of Texas, and have been investigating that particularly vicious prison gang as a result.

The 211 Crew is known for its paramilitary structure, with members using titles like major, captain and lieutenant, and for elaborate verbal and written codes that all members are required to learn. Its members have murdered at least one fellow inmate and attacked many others. In a notorious case, a former Colorado prisoner was awarded $165,000 after he was extorted and repeatedly raped by 211 members while Department of Corrections officials reportedly did nothing to help.

The gang’s name, 211, comes from the California penal code for robbery. Members are often tattooed with “211” or a shamrock, after its founder’s Irish roots.

The chase Thursday began when a deputy with the Montague County, Texas, Sheriff’s Office tried to question Ebel in connection with an apparent drug deal. Ebel reportedly shot the deputy, who was wearing a bulletproof vest and survived, and a chase ensued. Ebel crashed his older model Cadillac after it was hit by a truck, then jumped out and began firing at his pursuers. He was shot to death.

Officials are also investigating whether Ebel was behind the murder of a pizza delivery man on Sunday in Colorado — a Domino’s delivery uniform shirt and a pizza box were reportedly found in his car after it crashed. Some officials reportedly suspect that delivery man Nathan Leon, 27, may have been killed by Ebel for his uniform, which Ebel may have then used to approach the home of Clements, the Department of Corrections official slain on Tuesday. Officials are also reportedly looking into the possibility that Ebel was behind still other murders.

  • aadila

    “to say that they exist for one reason is what could be called literary exaggeration on my part similar to when one says that politicians “only exist” to line their own pockets. ”

    nt, the word you are fumbling for is “hyperbole”. Please consider making a donation to the SPLC for sponsoring this opportunity for you to become more educated.

  • Reynardine

    Brock! goes the weasel!

  • Brock Henderson

    My comments refer to the subject at hand in the blog entry, Ruslan. Look at my comment about Anglo-Celtic supremacy, then go back up to the blog entry above it, and gee whillakers! You’ll find that that term was mentioned, so I was responding in turn!

    Anyway, I’m coherent enough for YOU to respond to my comments most of the time.

  • Ruslan Amirkhanov

    The truth is Brock, little of what you write is even coherent. One minute you’re talking about “Anglo-Celtic” race, nation etc., the next minute you’re complaining about the United States being a nation(as opposed to some kind of loose affiliation of sovereign states). You really have nothing to contribute to any conversation except constant rage.

  • Brock Henderson

    Reading comprehension skills, Ruslan? Did you drop them at this blog’s cyberdoor? I JUST SAID that I do believe the modern-day Klan, Nazism, neo-Nazism, and fascism are all undesirables that a conservative American organization should try to show the door. My words were “I believe it to be fair enough.” That’s more than implicit.

  • Ruslan Amirkhanov

    “nt, you don’t know the half of it. Ruslan is a Communist – proud and avowed. Yes, as in Lenin, Stalin, and Mao.”

    Well not Mao, but that’s another discussion entirely.

    ” That’s who the SPLC is attracting these days.”

    It also attracts you, apparently. If you peruse these comments you will see that comments from conservatives, White Nationalists, and self-avowed Neo-Nazis are tolerated.

    ” And personally, I think the Right here in America ought to spread that word.”

    Hey why not, you chicken littles crow all the time about how such-and-such centrist Democrat is a “Marxist.”

    ” After all, I believe it to be fair enough that the SPLC thinks a right-wing organization should look disreputable if neo-Nazis, fascists, and Klansmen are spotted at its meetings.”

    1. The SPLC, to the best of my knowledge, doesn’t have “meetings.”

    2. Are you basically admitting that Klansmen, fascists, etc. do regularly attend the meetings of conservative organizations? If so, are you saying this isn’t a negative thing? And if you think that it is, doesn’t it bother you that these people seem to be attracted to said meetings?

    ” But that’s a two-way street. It surely reflects badly upon the SPLC that Commies are attracted to them.”

    Commenting on a blog hardly suffices as “attracted to.” After all, you and all the other right-wingers, Nazis and all, are represented on this blog as well.

  • Ruslan Amirkhanov

    “Your second point: The SPLC is, in fact, disproportionately Jewish. Is it possible that a disproportionately Jewish organization might be biased in favor of Jews?”

    What was this calculation based on? You did a survey of the organization’s staff or something? Furthermore, Jewish conspiracy theorists love to use “disproportionate representation’ as though it’s some kind of proof of Jewish domination. This is certainly the case in Bolshevik Russia, for example. Look up something called the Texas Sharpshooter fallacy if you want to see why claims of Jewish over-representation fail.

    Also, this comment seems to be reinforcing the WN belief that Jews view themselves as something apart from “whites”, which simply isn’t true in the real world.

    ” What I’m saying here is that it’s really incongruous for a person who minimizes Stalin’s crimes to criticize those who minimize Hitler’s crimes. That’s weird.”

    That might be the case were we comparing similar things. “Death camps did not exist in the Soviet Union”, and “The more you compare Communism and Nazism, the more the differences are obvious.” <Who said this? Some Commie professor? No, it's just Nicholas Werth, one of the contributors to The Black Book of Communism, the very same book where the ridiculous 100 million claim comes from.

    If we really dissect the Holocaust and Stalin's "crimes" side by side, the difference becomes just as obvious as Werth said, but this isn't really the place for that.

  • Brock Henderson

    nt, you don’t know the half of it. Ruslan is a Communist – proud and avowed. Yes, as in Lenin, Stalin, and Mao. That’s who the SPLC is attracting these days. And personally, I think the Right here in America ought to spread that word. After all, I believe it to be fair enough that the SPLC thinks a right-wing organization should look disreputable if neo-Nazis, fascists, and Klansmen are spotted at its meetings. But that’s a two-way street. It surely reflects badly upon the SPLC that Commies are attracted to them.

  • Reynardine

    nt: for someone who claims not to be a frothing anti-Semite, your stalkerish behavior outside this forum (yes, I know what you did) belies your assertions.

  • nt

    Okay, the SPLC exists for many reasons–to say that they exist for one reason is what could be called literary exaggeration on my part similar to when one says that politicians “only exist” to line their own pockets. To say that someone exists for something can be another way of saying that that something is very important to them, not necessarily that, literally, it’s the only thing important to them. “I exist to eat chocolate.” For the record, if I had to write my first comment over again, I would have written it more carefully without the literary exaggeration so that people like you wouldn’t freak out.

    Your second point: The SPLC is, in fact, disproportionately Jewish. Is it possible that a disproportionately Jewish organization might be biased in favor of Jews? I’m sure, as a fair person, you’d admit that it certainly is possible. Would such bias generally be overt or covert? Well, bias works better when it’s covert, isn’t it? So why is it unusual to charge a group with a) being biased and b) doing it in a stealthy way?

    “Yet he has the nerve to criticize those who question the Holocaust.” Okay, I’ll try to explain this to you, but if you don’t get it, I’m at a loss. As I said, I do believe the Holocaust happened. I do believe around 6 million Jews were killed in the Holocaust. What I’m saying here is that it’s really incongruous for a person who minimizes Stalin’s crimes to criticize those who minimize Hitler’s crimes. That’s weird. But Ruslan apparently feels right at home here. He’s a regular contributor. My point being (and this really isn’t about the Jewish bias issue) that Mark’s blog has attracted a rather motley list of regulars, including a person who minimizes mass murder (Ruslan).

    Now, regarding your pedophilia analogy. Simply put, it’s not analogous. The correct analogy would be this: Suppose an anti-pedophilia group marketed itself as exposing all pedophilia, but, on closer look, never exposed pedophilia among the Catholic clergy. Pointing out that this is biased does not mean a) you hate Catholics or b) you’re in favor of pedophilia.

    And Mark: Again, I have to ask you very earnestly to please print this comment.

  • adamhill

    nk,

    If your intent was to assert and complain about some perceived equation between Hatewatch and the hate groups/radical right that it reports on, without holding any anti-Semitic opinions of your own, you didn’t help to make your intent clear by writing things like:

    “You exist to keep white gentiles from forming a collective against Jews–that’s really why you’re doing what you’re doing.”

    “But neither do I want an organization which is largely funded and staffed by Jews under the guise of an anti-ethnocentrist outfit to, essentially, be covertly putting the interests of their own group first and foremost.”

    “Yet he has the nerve to criticize those who question the Holocaust.”

    For one thing, you can’t be an apologist for racists without looking like a racist yourself. Racism, in whatever ideological or behavioral form it is manifested, possesses about the same degree of legitimacy as pedophilia. You can’t assert to a group who in part exposes pro-pedophilia groups, “well, I’m not a child molester myself, but I’m against groups ganging up on child molesters because I’m opposed to any group ganging up on another group” without looking yourself like a pedophile. No sane, decent person would NOT have the nerve to criticize those who question the Holocaust.

    For another thing, if we take you at your word and regard your complaint seriously (that is, that Hatewatch is guided by some stealth Zionist ideology and therefore focuses unfairly on some hate groups over others in its reporting), then you have provided just about zero evidence to back it up. Instead, you have scolded Aron for saying something positive about Israel (horrors!) and generally attacked the character of commenters here (as though the commenters were the same as Hatewatch itself).

    Even a cursory look at the posts on this blog, or at the work the SPLC has done, provides much evidence that contradicts what you say. If Hatewatch is really only about “keeping white gentiles from forming a collective against Jews,” and not about what it claims to be (providing information to the public about the radical right and hate groups–which of course necessarily, but fractionally, include reporting on anti-Semitic groups), it’s spending a large proportion of its efforts doing things that are irrelevant to its central purpose.

    Maybe instead of complaining to Mark about ethnic bias and excessive number of Jewish donors, you should complain to him about poor management, i.e. spending too much time fighting hate groups and too little time promoting Hatewatch’s sinister stealth Zionist-agenda.

  • Ruslan Amirkhanov

    Oh look, I’ve got someone talking behind my back:

    “You’ve got Ruslan–a bona fide Stalinist. (I’m aware he’s not Jewish–that’s not my point here.)”

    There is no such thing as “Stalinism.”

    ” Yet he has the nerve to criticize those who question the Holocaust.”

    First of all, they don’t “question” it. They make accusations and then hide behind “questioning.”

    ” (To be clear: I don’t think there are any grounds to question the standard Holocaust account; I’m just saying that those who cover up the crimes of Stalin have no business criticizing anyone else for re-writing history.”

    I do not deny a single Soviet “crime” that has been proven by evidence. There are somewhere around 700,000 deaths via execution between 1921-1954. I’m sure you consider every last one of them totally innocent people, because as we all know it’s not like the USSR ever faced the threat of invasion, espionage, or internal uprisings in that era. Tell me, where in Nazi Germany did the Jews start an armed uprising? Or perhaps you can tell me which imperial powers blockaded and invaded Germany in 1933 when Hitler took power? Oh right, none.

    “Ruslan’s still papered over horrendous crimes that mainstream historians accept as fact.”

    Well the problem is that much of the work of those mainstream historians was baseless. In 1991 the Soviet archives were opened and some historians were actually interested in gathering evidence for their claims. J. Arch Getty is just one example.

    Now what is all this really about? Concern for Palestinians? I highly doubt that. Based on your first post I doubt you’d treat Arabs and better than the Israelis. Seems to me folks like you should support Israel.

  • Sam Molloy

    nt, there is a term in the Gay World for every type: Butch, Fem, Queen, Leather Daddy, Bear, Twink, Camo-Queen, etc. etc. There is a term for me that I accept proudly, and that is, “Unicorn”. As in rare creatures that do not follow any of the expected sociological patterns, and something a lot of people do not believe exist at all. You might be considered an honorary Unicorn in some circles.

  • Edward

    If you are one of those people that are using the killing of Tom Clements in Colorado to slag off on white people yet again, you are the one with the problem, no one else. If you are using it as an analogy to the Columbine or Ruby Ridge case, you are really a sad person. If you are doing both there’s no hope for you. In fact, if you are doing anything but show sympathy to the family of Tom Clements first and foremost, go to hell. The SPLC Family strikes again.

  • nt

    adamhill: You’ve misinterpreted my intent here from the beginning. I do oppose white supremacism and any kind of supremacism, and I do support this kind of article exposing hate. What I don’t support is a pattern of bias I see at the SPLC–an emphasis on one kind of ethnic favoritism and a protective stance toward another type. That doesn’t mean I don’t agree with many things which the SPLC does.

    An analogy: You accuse the local firemen of running an old boys club that’s, say, sexist. They accuse you back of disagreeing with their saving kittens from trees. Is it possible you agree with saving kittens from trees yet disagree with sexist workplace practices?

  • Reynardine

    Brock, Addison’s Disease can turn white people very dark, and under both the South African apartheid regime and our Jim Crow laws, they have been treated as “colored”. Now, how do you do?

  • Aron

    Brock, troll harder.

  • Brock Henderson

    Aron, I’ve seen many a black person stricken with a skin disorder that causes it to turn white. Don’t know anything about it other than that. But are you saying those people are, in fact, white? I’d love to see you say that to one of them, right to their faces.

  • adamhill

    Yes, Concerned, I was being sarcastic.

  • adamhill

    nt,

    If you don’t want to be perceived as an anti-Semite, stop acting like one.

    “Would you love Ireland if Ireland were expanding into land owned and lived on for centuries by other people, despite the fact that you’re not from there?”

    Would you like apples if they turned into oranges?

    Israel’s history and position in the Middle East in relation to the Palestinians are far more complex than you suggest, so the conflicts there can’t be reduced to a simple case of good versus evil (or as you would put it, “good gentiles versus the evil Jews”), even if comforts your private mental turbulances to believe so.

    “Would you be suspicious if South African whites said, pre-Mandela, that they loved South Africa?”

    Not necessarily.

  • Aron

    Concerned,

    Adamhill was joking. He doesn’t actually believe those things.

  • Aron

    John,

    It’s called being friendly. And I can and HAVE held my own.

    My mocking of Ebel is that these supremacists (like our own Brock Henderson) consider themselves at the ‘forefront of racial issues.’

    My definition of ‘white’ is possessing lighter colored skin. And nothing else. The color of my skin gives me no natural advantage over anyone else, despite what you very likely imagine

    John, why don’t you go troll somebody who isn’t used to your pissant needling? YouTube is full of them.

  • Sam Molloy

    Aron, even disregarding the Biblical reasons for supporting the Jews, the State of Israel made a garden out of a worthless desert, correctly applied Socialist principles successfully in their Kibbutzes, and allows Gays to serve in the Military. That puts them head and shoulders above their neighbors in my book.

  • concernedcitizen

    @steve: as you too have experienced what it is like to step into the field of cow pies.

    Not to spend too much time in trying to make sense of it all but to say that metaphorically speaking the bees have workers that split duties in order that the colony may survive; we in the human race have those that create unintelligible recipes of information that form the cow pies we are cursed to step in; far too often these days. However, I am not sure what relevance they have towards our survival as the human race.

    One possible explanation of their existence may be to divert progressive minds from serious and intelligent debate.

  • concernedcitizen

    @missy: you are correct about there being more information on the SPLC website that covers hate groups of varying ethnic backgrounds.

    What I find is that those of cow pie minds simply like to make up accusations while trying to be leaders of others who like themselves do not take time to read or explore before opening their mouths and emitting fields of cow pies for the rest of us to step into.

    It’s annoying to say the least, but it appears that the ether of ignorance is alive and well and will always be amongst us.

  • concernedcitizen

    @adamhill: you stated:

    “Yeah, I think it’s in the Southern Poverty Law Center’s charter (secret, of course): “Keep (good and pure) white gentiles from forming ‘collectives’ against (sinister) Jews.” And all the work SPLC has done to defend the rights of people who aren’t Jewish is just a diversion so people (read: good and pure white people who haven’t seen the light) don’t realize the horrible truth. What a breathtaking fool you are.”

    The Good and Pure White People don’t subscribe to the cow pie you just baked up for us all.

    (you have provided us with the recipe of how to make a cow pie.)

    @Reynardine and Aron: be careful you don’t want to step into adamhills cow pie.

  • concernedcitizen

    @NT: yes I believe that the people who support the views of the SPLC do not want a repeat of the Holocaust, but you are wrong in that this organization is merely about a Jewish Agenda, it is about all minorities and any American that has been oppressed and or had their civil liberties threatened.

    And if you bother to read the cases that have been taken on by the SPLC it will clearly demonstrate that to you.

    However, people have a tendency to look for something bad when so many people from very diverse backgrounds get together to do something good for our Nation.

    Look at the cases and look at the faces of people who have been harmed and who have found solace and a place of like minded people who believe in peace and unity and the absence of hate, divide and oppression; you will see these people come in many different colors and are pictured here one time or another on the SPLC website.

  • nt

    Reynardine writes: “who does not resemble the Eternal Jew character that haunts your fevered omelette of a brain in any way.”

    But then writes: “nt, interesting that you used the term, “anti-Semite”
    I never did. Don’t play cute. You’re not.”

    So indicating that there’s an eternal Jew character that haunts my fevered brain isn’t to suggest that I’m an anti-Semite? Do you actually think that’s plausible?

    Aron: Do you think that Israel should be a predominantly Jewish country? Or should Israel be allowed to be multiethnic–in the sense that you’d feel fine if a majority of people weren’t Jewish? That’s the real question: Because if, like many “liberal” Zionists, you believe Israel must be a Jewish state, then you really shouldn’t be pushing for multiculturalism in America. Because obviously it’s not as wonderful as you make it out to be: Why deny Israel something wholly wonderful? But then, why act like it’s wholly wonderful here in America, then? Which one is it, Aron?

    adamhill writes: “So what? I love Ireland, but I’m not Irish. I have distant family members who live there and it’s a nice country.”

    Would you love Ireland if Ireland were expanding into land owned and lived on for centuries by other people, despite the fact that you’re not from there? Would you be suspicious if South African whites said, pre-Mandela, that they loved South Africa?

  • Reynardine

    John: flush your cranium.

  • John

    Aron, why do you need support? Surely you can hold your own..or at least try…and you’re right, there is a difference between Marx and Stalin…Stalin actually had people murdered..Also, who said Ebel was a vanguard for the “white race”? Indulging in a bit of delusional leadership are we? and, pray tell, what is your definition of “white”?

  • Aron

    Thanks for the support, Greg. I really appreciate it!

    And as for you, NT, most of the Palestinians to whom I’ve spoken support two states. So if that isn’t good enough for you, I don’t know what is.

    In the Knesset, Jews and both flavored of Arabs have representation. How many Jews and Christians are in the PA?

  • adamhill

    “You exist to keep white gentiles from forming a collective against Jews–that’s really why you’re doing what you’re doing.”

    Yeah, I think it’s in the Southern Poverty Law Center’s charter (secret, of course): “Keep (good and pure) white gentiles from forming ‘collectives’ against (sinister) Jews.” And all the work SPLC has done to defend the rights of people who aren’t Jewish is just a diversion so people (read: good and pure white people who haven’t seen the light) don’t realize the horrible truth. What a breathtaking fool you are.

    By “white gentiles,” you mean “white anti-Semites,” right? What other kind of “white gentiles” would want to organize “against” Jews?

    You take pains to distance yourself from the neo-Nazi/Holocaust-denial crowd, but your use of a euphemism to describe them demonstrates sympathy on your part for them. Honestly refer to them as what they are–anti-semites, racists, Nazis, whatever–and refer to yourself honestly the same way.

    “I strongly, vehemently feel that no group should gang up against another group”

    Yeah, right. Nazis and racists are well-known for not ganging up on other groups.

    “But Aron has said on this very site that he “loves” Israel.”

    So what? I love Ireland, but I’m not Irish. I have distant family members who live there and it’s a nice country. This doesn’t make me a militant Irish nationalist. People’s ties to their ethnic heritage are complicated, sometimes by a heritage nationality.

    “Like American Renaissance which focuses on criminality and tribal behavior in the African-American community, you focus on that same behavior in the white community.”

    This false equivalency already has been addressed so many times on this blog that it’s not worth the keystrokes to do it again. It’s impressive how people like you can keep putting out notions like this, constructed with such transparently shoddy reasoning, after consistently and easily be smacked down with simple, grown-up logic. Lack of critical thinking skills/base stupidity seem to go hand in hand with delusional clinging to falsehood even when the truth kicks you in the face.

    “Look at the people who are attracted to this site.”

    YOU’RE attracted to this site. Despite this, the site and the organization that runs it are not tainted.

    The commenters on Hatewatch come from a wide range of beliefs and backgrounds, even if your psychosis tells you we are all cut from the same sinister gay-zionist-commie-sodomite mold. And I’ll take an honest Marxist and a lover of his heritage country any day over a dishonest, idiotic Nazi troll.

  • Gregory

    nt scrawls:
    Let the people decide. That’s all I ask.

    The people, such as they are, have decided. You are an idiot. Are you happy now or do you want a recount of the vote?

  • Sam Molloy

    This particular article has nothing whatsoever to do with Israel. To me the only bad things here are the dead Corrections Chief, Nathan Leon (the Pizza delivery guy), the wounded officer, and the demolished Cadillac. Again, I would point out that it was highly irresponsible to let this person out of jail.

  • Steve

    Thanks, to the good folks at the SPLC. I heard part of a burb on the news about Ebel, but didn’t hear the full story.
    So far, much of the information is unsubstantiated, but that is what investigations are for, to ascertain the facts.

    As for nt, one ponders what an excellent paper could be written by a mental health care professional after an examination. For, said person finds a vast conspiracy in every corner of creation and then uses an allegation of a lack of reporting as a “fact” supporting the delusion.
    Indeed, I would honestly not be surprised to hear you next go on about the Grand Conspiracy of the Space Aliens or some other fringe conspiracy theory.
    So, you are either a troll or you and reality have been strangers for far too long.
    In either case, I strongly suggest that you consult with a mental health care professional for guidance.
    Especially considering how the article and your rants are utterly unconnected, save in some delusional manner that the sane are unable to comprehend.

  • nt

    Okay, wanted to clear up some confusion: I wrote in my first comment that Aron was appalled by the idea of a two-state solution. I must have typed the wrong thing, because what I definitely meant to say (as is clear in my response) is that Aron would be appalled at the idea of a one-state solution.

    I apologize for the confusion. I can see why Aron was confused–because my comment didn’t really make sense with the two-state solution part.

    My larger, point, actually, was not to attack Aron. (Peace, Aron. I mean it sincerely: Shalom.) Believe it or not, I was playing devil’s advocate to expose a double standard. I actually support a two-state solution so long as it’s politically possible. (And, as I mentioned, it may not be; in that case I support a one-state solution.)

  • Reynardine

    nt, interesting that you used the term, “anti-Semite”
    I never did. Don’t play cute. You’re not.

  • nt

    Reynardine,

    Why do you assume that I’m an anti-Semite simply because I feel that the SPLC exhibits ethnocentrism in favor of Jews?

    Would it be impossible somehow for the SPLC to be this way? Is ethnic bias only perpetrated by white gentiles? No, I’m quite sure you’d reject that idea: So, what in principle is wrong with my accusation?

    I don’t exactly know what the “Eternal Jew character” is, by the way, although I could take a guess about what you’re talking about. Does the fact that anti-Semites have unfairly targeted and criticized some Jews and shoved them into a character type mean that all criticism of any Jew of favoritism toward his or her own ethnicity is necessarily false?

    I do care about hypocrisy masquerading as virtue. I do care about consistency. I do feel it’s wrong when people apply differing ethical standards in different locations based on differing people groups. Which of these concerns of mine do you reject?

    And, Mark, for heaven’s sake: Please print this response AS WELL AS the second one I submitted, You’ve allowed all kinds of crazy comments on this site. I hope you’re not intentionally cutting me off so that your side wins. Let me have my say. Let the people decide. That’s all I ask.

  • Aron

    Rey,

    I spoke about Israel about a year and a half ago, after being goaded by a troll. I think this may be the same troll.

  • Missy

    Uh, RT? Browse the SPLC’s site a bit more carefully (and objectively). There’s plenty of information on, ahem, black separatists, radical-right Jewish groups, and anti-LGBT quacks – among other “haters.”

  • nt

    Aron,

    “Troll”: Very immature, isn’t it?

    Ruslan may be a Marxist, but he’s also defended Stalin–on this site he indicated that the crimes Stalin is accused of have been greatly overblown. If you want to dispute whether that makes him a “Stalinist,” fine. Let’s say he’s not and merely a Marxist. Ruslan’s still papered over horrendous crimes that mainstream historians accept as fact.

    Also, I have no doubt you support a two-state solution. Most people who want Israel to be dominated by Jews are in favor of that solution. The question is: Do you support a one-state solution? You do realize that many extremely knowledgeable people about the I/P conflict have stated that there’s really no more chance for two states: The Jewish leadership in Israel has taken too much for their own group and have left too little for the Palestinians.

    So: How about a one-state solution? Tell me: What’s wrong with a one state solution? And tell me: Why do you support Israel as a state dominated by one ethnicity (even if it does give the minority–which Israel will insist always remains a minority) a right to vote?

    Are you honestly telling me that you see nothing hypocritical or two-faced about your support for Israel as a state dominated by one ethnicity and your support for the rest of the West as a place which should never question the morality of multiculturalism?

    And, no, I’m not going away–not because of name-calling by someone who uses “silly,” anyway.

  • Reynardine

    nt, we’ve heard it all before, and I have not noticed Aron speaking of Israel at all. I actually know the real Aron, who does not resemble the Eternal Jew character that haunts your fevered omelette of a brain in any way. You have a problem. Have it elsewhere.

  • Aron

    And Ruslan is a Marxist. Not a Stalinist. There’s a big difference, silly.

  • Aron

    NT, I have no idea what you’re talking about. I fully support a two-state solution, and I think Netanyahu has been a disaster for Israel.

    Otherwise, I don’t need to justify myself to you. Go away, troll.

  • james

    I an in the Dallas Fort Worth area and all the media stories I am seeing say that this person more than likely killed a pizza delivery person sunday but they have not concluded this person in fact killed the Colorado prison chief. Lets hope that on TV tonight, its not stated as fact that he killed the prison chief. because the examinations of the police from Colorado and Texas are on going.

  • nt

    Mark,

    I have to say, I’m angry at the SPLC. Why? It’s seems to so obvious to me that your organization has an agenda driven unconsciously by perceived Jewish ethnic loyalty. The SPLC has the fingerprints of an ethnic agenda all over it. You exist to keep white gentiles from forming a collective against Jews–that’s really why you’re doing what you’re doing. That’s why the funders of your organization–a disproportionate number of whom are Jewish–are opening their purses to you.

    I need to explicitly state that I strongly, vehemently feel that no group should gang up against another group. In fact, I’m anti-group/anti-tribe. So I would never want white gentiles to form a collective against Jews.

    BUT: But neither do I want an organization which is largely funded and staffed by Jews under the guise of an anti-ethnocentrist outfit to, essentially, be covertly putting the interests of their own group first and foremost.

    Like American Renaissance which focuses on criminality and tribal behavior in the African-American community, you focus on that same behavior in the white community. So you’re slightly more subtle–yes, you throw in a few words against those blacks and other minorities now and then, but largely this website is involved in policing the white community.

    Yet you rarely police the Jewish community. And when you do, you focus on a few terrorist-type organizations as opposed to, say, the more mainstream ethnocentrism which exists.

    Take Eric Yoffie. An important Jewish leader, leader of the ostensibly liberal Reform branch of Judaism for many years. Yoffie has stated that he loves Jews a little more than other people.

    What about that?

    And what about Aron, frequent contributor here? He struts around like some hip-liberal. But Aron has said on this very site that he “loves” Israel. Now, why would he love a country which isn’t even his own? Answer: Because there are lots of people of his ethnic group over there.

    Would Aron consider giving the Palestinians in the OT a chance to vote in Israeli elections? No. Why? Because he’s appalled at the idea of a two-state solution. But in America, on this site, he’ll talk the liberal talk about how great multiculturalism is, and how horrible people are who resist it. Two standards. Double standards.

    Look at the people who are attracted to this site: You’ve got Ruslan–a bona fide Stalinist. (I’m aware he’s not Jewish–that’s not my point here.) Yet he has the nerve to criticize those who question the Holocaust. (To be clear: I don’t think there are any grounds to question the standard Holocaust account; I’m just saying that those who cover up the crimes of Stalin have no business criticizing anyone else for re-writing history.)

    You can ignore this comment. Or you can just sweep it under the rug as one who is crazy/morally deficient, etc.

    Or you can choose to listen to what I’m saying: You’re stoking anger. You’re behaving aggressively toward white people.

    I’m not going to say that you should stop it because of what might happen. It seems to me that white power is a spent force–and that’s a good thing. You should stop disproportionately bashing whites simply because it’s wrong.

  • Aron

    Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you the vanguard of the white race.

    I hope Preston Wiginton shows up to defend him.

    And Randy Weaver, too!

  • concernedcitizen

    Imagine a world without hate.

  • scott.pittinsky

    Gregory – I’m checking our policy on this and will respond as soon as possible.