Remember, this is the same sport whose fans BOOED the First and Second Ladies of the United States of America. This was, of course after they had committed the vile act of honoring American servicemen and women.

They are a disgrace to the country and auto racing in general.

Real race drivers take right turns as well.

Booing the First Lady and daughter was an extremely unAmerican thing to do. Is this what Karl Marx meant when he referred to a “classless society”?

I don’t claim to understand Nascar. The last Stock car race I saw was SCCA Showroom Stock, and a Chevy Cobalt SS trounced the second place Honda. I also do not understand what is so wrong with taking an oath to support the Constitution. Oathkeepers could also protect Americans from a Right Wing Christian administration that is Hell bent on “returning our nation to Christian principles” as in, their interpretation of what those might be.

That’s a good one, Sam.

Well, they sure seem Hell-bent against having any class.

The problem with groups like this is that they spread fear mongering and the village idiots that respond from the sleepy hallows of ignorance start reacting and acting out in ways that are simply illegal. They are not protecting any constitution when they are violating the rights of other Americans, and those who have chosen their President and representative.

Using the constitution as a cover to perpetrate hate only proves to keep one oath and that is one of bigotry and divide in this country.

Concentration camps? Really? Who has been put in a concentration camp? I think we have a large group of people who have started to try and work the one last working braincell they have left and it will be to their followers peril.

The starter of the group is Retired Army?

We need to write a letter to President Obama to please do something about the wayward Army Military members who start groups that are trying to wage a war within America that most Americans do not support.

Is it possible that Rhodes is a victim of untreated PTSD from his service years?

I refer to the Oath Keepers as ‘double patriots’ as they remind me of member of the Japanese military between the world wars.

Those people, mostly officers in the Army, interfered with Japanese politics by assassinating politicians and fomenting incidents that led to war. They called themselves ‘double patriots’ and excused their actions by claiming they were acting in the Emperor’s true interests by acting against ‘traitors’ in His Majesty’s government.

In this light the similarities between the ‘double patriots’ of Japan and the Oath Keepers is hard to miss.

Interesting Graham and definitely worth the read and investigation of the double patriots.

However, what I don’t agree with are these so called underground militias who stockpile weapons and the Officers need to understand that talking about concentration camps or anything remotely as scary will send the village idiots into frenzies and may cause them to spawn into very dangerous groups that go off on the deep end of what they believe to be protecting civil liberties when in fact they end up violating the very civil rights they are attempting to protect.

It’s a difficult job trying to organize vigilante’s and a very scary and dangerous job.

It seems a bit redundant, at the very least, to take an oath to uphold an oath you have already taken. If the OKies were operating in a political vacuum then their group might just be considered another fraternal order. However, that is not the case and despite protestations to the contrary they operate in black helicopter conspiracy territory.

It should be reiterated that the Oath Keepers were formed in March 2009 by a former Ron Paul staffer. Those facts alone are sufficient to suggest that their newfound concern for the Constitution had more to do with the new occupant of the White House rather than the government’s behaviour during the previous eight years.

With regards to NASCAR, I remember a joke that used to circulate twenty years ago, before the sport became really popular on a national level. At that time the fan base was largely regional.

Q, Why is NASCAR so popular in the South?
A. Because it combines their two favourite races, auto and white.

Ahhhhh… yesss…

Vilification of minorities allowed by superiors by even one local Policeman/Deputy (and false accusations/reports and led conversations) virtually guarantee that Tea Party/Conservative/”Oathkeeper” factions in small town/County Police forces become enRaptured by the “us vs. them” mind sets: fueling their Deputies or “posses” (or firemen, EMTs, volunteer first responders, “snitches”, etc.) to engage in repeated Civil Rights abuses or flippant disregard for anybody’s rights.
This also happens in State forces as well: find a photo of a State Police Academy graduating class for a given year, and start counting minority faces: uhhhhh… a big, fat, zero… maybe one… out of 126 or so.

You know that there is something seriously wrong when known hate group members, “survivalists”, “NWO” conspiracy theorists and Militia members, or people with extended family who are/were major drug dealers in an area are the only ones being encouraged or allowed to join the Police or EMTs….

There is almost nothing more repellant or alarming than to have a local EMT tell you how “dirty and disgusting” or “stupid” African Americans are that he has had to respond to or transfer in his ambulance, and his using butchered vernacular in falsetto to mimic them in describing their symptoms.
His reasoning?
“I hate any kind of stupidity.”
Apparently he does not see his small town racism as stupid.
An absolute lack of compassion for any in his care who HE might think are “stupid”?
Just what one might want in a first responder.

Add a healthy dose of Baptist, Lutheran, Christian Reformed, and Assembly of God churches and you have fodder for vigilantism and major Color of Law violations.

Oathkeeping to the Constitution would actually be wonderful if they were talking about the Constitution as amended, as opposed to the Tea Party and Sovereign States Rights crowd seem to want.

Sam, unfortunately many of those Oath Keeper types are also Christian Right types so your hope is likely in vain.

And the real story here is probably more about the economics of NUISANCECAR than anything. That team must be pretty desperate for any sort of sponsorship to be reduced to hoping that the Oath Keepers can raise $30,000 to sponsor them for one race.

I am an oath keeper. It is about keeping your oath to the constitution nothing more. It includes all of the bill of rights including but not limited to the amendments loved by the left. The oath keepers message has opened the eyes to many police about the importance of the liberties granted by the 4th amendment among others. Please explain the problems with that. The part about detention stems from the way people were treated in Katrina where ccitizens of the USA were not allowed the freedom to walk out of there. ^[1]. Look it up on youtube. There are many many videos people begging to be allowed to leave but they were detained. This is not a left or far right issue this is a human issue. You talk of conspiracy theries here but you are creating a conspiracy thery of your own when you say oathkeepers is a hate group and what not. Most oathkeepers are veterans. 99% of veterans are not racists because the military beats that out of you from day one. The military is a true melting pot as people from all walks of life and all 4 corners of this country and beyond are forces to work together under extreme circumstances. You become “brothers” with people you never would have been exposed to otherwise. The

You’ll be interested to know that American rightwing militia groups are becoming notorious in Europe as well. I live in Finland, and a couple of weeks ago there was a quite extensive report on them, in rather satirical tone, by the Washington correspondent for the biggest national daily paper. He referred in particular to the Waco story, and the article included a photograph of the memorial at Waco. What I found amusing (though I don’t know how many Finnish readers would have noticed this) is that the word “siege” was misspelled on the monument — their ignorance literally “carved in stone”.
Of course we have our own rightwing crazies in Europe too (as in Oslo), but nothing (so far, anyway) as organized or pervasive as in the US.

these guys are still around? I would think half of them would have run out of steam believing this stuff by now

Mark, please continue your post. The SPLC does a lot of good things with Teaching Tolerance in schools that will let them in. I believe they are wrong about this group.

April 30th Comment by Gregory: It should be reiterated that the Oath Keepers were formed in March 2009 by a former Ron Paul staffer. Those facts alone are sufficient to suggest that their newfound concern for the Constitution had more to do with the new occupant of the White House rather than the government’s behaviour during the previous eight years.

I couldn’t agree more!

The resounding undercurrent: “Oh my God they have a black man in the White House, why in the world do they think we painted it white? We want everything in the White House white!”

These people who believe in this stupidity put the face on America that so many abroad have come to hate. A face of bigotry and divide, stupidity and narrow mindedness.

It’s the same resounding crap of the South when someone gave the first slave a book and taught them to read and speak English.

Then the bigots rallied, “oh my God if they find out that they are intelligent human beings they will know that we’ve been lying all along and see us for the true monsters that we are.”

Well Hello! The world sees you and it’s a very ugly picture.

Intelligent people would be more concerned about the mans politics, not the color of his skin. I pray that the truly intelligent people win in ruling and running America. God help us all if the village idiots take control.

red diaper baby it is on one hand a real shame that these people live and exist here in the states. On the other hand it does ring comical when you see them. Most look like they just rolled off of the couch after watching soap operas and decided to take up the local cause because it was scribbled on a local public toilet wall.

Perhaps Mark, not all Oathkeepers are demonstrating the idealized meaning that some well meaning people may have had in the beginning.

But when there is a disaster people have a tendency to do some very stupid things that jeopardizes the lives of everyone including themselves.

And in regards to our police men, state or federal they have an obligation to serve and observe the law. They are not supposed to subscribe to private groups that would have them break the laws that Americans have voted on.

Now if someone asks one of them to violate civil rights then they can simply say no, but this is not about listening to Uncle Jed holler out commands that they follow as a collective organized group that would engage in criminal activities.

MRJ, did you not miss the article of the idiot EMT that was espousing racially charged rants amongst his fellow workers and all the while his Daddy was in charch?

Well he lost his job and it made national news headlines.

He lost his job as he should have.

It’s the publics responsibility to clean out these bigots. It’s the publics responsibility to turn them in when they have first hand knowledge that they are hateful and use their positions to harm or deprive minorities of their civil rights and entitlements as American Citizens.

Oath Keepers? Aren’t they just another version of the Promise Keepers, another all white, exclusive christian “team” of men…or are the two entirely unrelated?

Lest anyone have any doubts about where this is headed or who is heading it that way, here is a link:

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Hello everyone. Great comments from everyone. Now for mine.

This is a great country, thanks to the Constitution as we know it today. Luckily Shays decided to have a rebellion because of unfair practices by government and business owners in MA helping pave way for a Federal governement rather than the Confederate government we had just after the Revolution and of course our current Bill of Right and all amendments. And that is what people from police officers, military, Congress, all the way up to POTUS take an oath to defend – from all enemies, both foreign and domestic.

There are always incidences of everyone’s rights being trampled, look at Boston the day after the bombing when the area was put into marshall law and police went door to door looking for the suspect. Did they have the right to do that? Technically no, not according to the Constitution. Did the people let them? I’m sure most, if not all, let them and didn’t think twice about it. Should the police have known better? Yes, I think they should have, but I wasn’t there. Afterall, after one the greatest geniuses of the 20th Century (yes, Hitler was a genius at inciting the people to do exactly what he wanted them to do – a whack job, perhaps, but again, I wasn’t there) was stopped those who worked under him were tried for their actions. “Just following orders” wasn’t a viable excuse.

Is there racism and bigotry at play in this group? Probably, at least one person, if not more are either racist or bigots, but then, all groups of people, no matter what their skin color is, have a racist of some type in their ranks. As for bigotry, I guaratee all groups do, for that person just doesn’t want to see the other person’s viewpoint and I bet there is here as well. It doesn’t matter if you’re far left, far right, normal left, normal right, or a fence sitting moderate, everyone has this problem. But that is the great thing about our country, we can disagree – hopefully on a cordial level, but that isn’t always the case either, is it?

The reason we can disagree? The constitution, which protects our right to free speech, but there are always those who want to take that (and all the other rights) away from Us, The People. I don’t care if it is the right or the left, whether they are Republican or Democrat, at the end of the day, they, most likely not meaning to, or perhaps they do mean to, end up eroding those rights. Can any of us know what is in the hearts of the man or woman to our left and right? No. Do we try to make them conform to our ideal of society? You can bet any body part we do.

And that is where this group comes into play. To bring to the attention of the People just what is being trampled. Are some of these rights trampling perceived? Of course they are, afterall, everyone perceives the world differently. Are some of these right trampling actually happening? Again, you can bet any body part with an extremely high probabilty you will NOT lose it. As Mark said, just look at New Orleans. There were quite a few tramplings back in 2005 New Orleans. 2nd amendment, 4th amendment, they were all trampled. That is where it becomes OUR (everyone’s) responsibility to stand up for that person who can’t or won’t stand up for their rights. Be that person who stands up to the civil rights violator (be it the white guy, the black guy, the green/purple guy, or the government) on the bus, the coffee shop, the office, the street. Afterall, it basically boils down to bullying one person or a group of people because the bully can.

Now many of you may be wondering, is this guy an Oath Keeper? I am an oath keeper in that I took an oath as enlisted, officer, and governement employee. Do I belong to this group? No. Do I need to? No. I don’t need a goup to tell me what is right and wrong when someone is trampling the Constitution or someone’s civil rights. Would I like to? Perhaps, but I would have to do some research, weigh the pros and cons of belonging to such a group, pay attention to our history, and the history of goups such as this to make an educated decision. Something, it seems, many people don’t do any more . . . with any group.

So, I shall close this with thanking each of you for reading my post, wishing all of you the best in all future endeavors, and reminding you to stand up for the little guy.

This is an oathkeepers video it is well worth the time. Is a total of an hour. Is a first hand historic account of the fall of the berlin wall by a high ranking officer in the east German army. Ultimately the oath to the east german constitution (largely followed the US Constitution) saved many lives and untold amount of bloodshed. It is a great history lesson and at the same time a amazing account of what oath keepers is all about. I included a link for all 4 of them below. They are broken up in 15 minute segments. 

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Is it really too much to learn that marshall law ( ^[6]) not the same as martial law ( ^[7])?

I know that it seems like a petty point but if you are going to fear monger with conspiracy theory then you should do it correctly.

Thank you, Mark.

I consider myself neither right wing nor left wing. I am pro-gay rights, pro-choice, pro-mmj, pro-2nd amendment, and against any form of racism or discrimination. I am former military and an Iraq veteran. I joined Oath Keepers a while back after meeting some local members of the group. I found that while our individual political beliefs may differ somewhat, we all have the same devotion to the Constitution and believe that we should uphold the oath we took for the military (or LE) even after our period of service has ended. After reading some of the comments on this page I can see that there are many misconceptions about Oath Keepers and what we stand for. I would like to clear up some of these misconceptions if possible.

I did not have to take a second oath to become an Oath Keeper; I only have to believe in the first oath that I took. Oath Keepers is not a political party, nor is it specifically right wing as there are many of us with moderate or left views. Oath Keepers does not promote violence, extremism, vigilantism, or hate. The Oath Keeper bylaws specifically prohibit anybody from membership if they advocate or have been a member of a group that advocates the overthrow of the government, or discrimination or violence based on race.

We are only a group of Americans that have sworn to protect our Constitution against all enemies, foreign or domestic, just as all members of the military and law enforcement have. The only people who should feel threatened by the existence of Oath Keepers are the ones who are intent on destroying the Constitution and stripping citizens of their rights and freedoms.

Jason,

They weren’t keeping people in their houses. They strongly suggested it.

If you had an emergency, they weren’t going to keep you off the road.

If you know anything about searching for a single person in an urban environment, you know that you need to isolate them. The police needed the run of the streets, so they wouldn’t have to wait for traffic. And your comparison to Adolf Hitler is particularly telling.

Mark, why are you Oat Eaters using the German Democratic Republic as your example? I thought you hated Communism.

(And to claim the GDR Constitution was based upon the US Constitution is laughable.)

Jason Hitler wasn’t a Genius he led a very large number of fools. It doesn’t take a genius to do that just a larger more aggressive fool.

Jason, you have walked into a room with a great deal of intelligent people you have stated the obvious on most of your accounts. However, you have stated obviously good points.

Then you say this: Do I belong to this group? No. Do I need to? No. I don’t need a goup to tell me what is right and wrong when someone is trampling the Constitution or someone’s civil rights.

If you don’t need a group then why did you join Oath
keepers?

Thank you Jason for leaving us with a most forgettable entrance and exit.

Is it just me or does anybody else not give two cents about these Oathkeepers?

oath keepers…..the name sounds patriotic, in a Clockwork Orange, 1984 Orwellian kinda way, doesn’t it? Defend the Republic and the Constitution, New World Order, martial law, tyranny, state of emergency, U.N., guns…, all the right words to get the voluntarily ignorant as well as the paranoids and those living on the lunatic fringe all fired up about any of the thousands of bullshit conspiracy theories out there. For a prime example check out the conspiracy theory video about the Boston Marathon bombings Stella Tremblay, New Hampshire Legislator, Says Jeff Bauman ‘Was Not In Pain’ After Bombing 1&2 MAI13 & A retired Lieutenant Colonel in the Army weighs in on Boston.17APR13 ^[8]
If that is who jeffery earnhardt relates to how sad for him and his association with NASCAR
It is also interesting to note that oath keepers wasn’t started until the Republic elected an African-American as President, as Commander-in-Chief. Bill Maher has some interesting views on the not so subtle racism that is prominent in right wing extremist politics in our ‘Land of the Free, and Home of the Brave’, and the article on oath keepers and NASCAR follows the video. I have listed my earlier post on the oath keepers at the end of this post for those who may be interested…..
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It is our right to boo. If you are not doing a good job or you are not liked, you get booed. Sports or politics.

What gets me about the Oath Keeper mentality is this idea of “service”. If you spend a little time in the blogosphere, just below the surface of “patriotism” is this idea of “service”, where if you challenge anyone’s idea suddenly it becomes, “well, did you serve?”.

It seems to me one get’s pretty good service at Starbucks or a gas station. There is great service by sanitation workers. Public school teachers serve. Taxi drivers serve. Stay at home moms serve. All good forms of service without dropping bombs on people’s heads or marching them around at gunpoint to make them do what you want, in my opinion. So where is this notion of “service” derived?

Take the macho thrill of violence away from these folks and deny them their power over others, and suddenly there is not much left. They sag like a limp pickle. They have no notion of what true power is.

Hey all,

Long time reader of this blog, but very rarely post, I was wondering if anyone else has ever wondered, what if the constitution changes? it is after all a living document, and although rare, relatively easy to change (add/remove amendments).
I served in the USCG, and took the oath that this group did, how can they not complete the thought process that things like Executive Orders, Martial Law, and even certain UN resolutions (under the treaties clause) ARE constitutional under certain circumstances.

i’ll take the Oath Keepers a lot more seriously when they start by calling for the police forces they are employed by to actually follow the 4th, 5th, and 6th Amendment rather than constantly violating them and then lying about it in court under oath.

Instead, the Oath Keepers have reacted to the Rehnquist and Roberts Court’s evisiciration of those amendments with not only silence in condemning them but often applause because it makes their job as police easier.

the only reason why the Oath Keepers exist is because modern cops have learned that openly joining the Ku Klux Klan (who also claimed to support the Constitution). Yes, they support the Constitution unless you are black, Hispanic, Catholic, Jewish, Moslem, Female, liberal, young, poor, “suspicious” in any way, actually insist on asserting your right to be free of harassment by the police, actually insist your right of free speech to publicize abusive actions by the police, etc. – and then the Oath Keepers will revert to the cops that many of them are and then you have only the rights that they think that you deserve (which is often none whatsoever).

When was the last time that the Oath Keepers did something like condemn racist stop and frisk policies or “driving while black” stops. How about the erosion of the warrant requirements brought about by right wing courts? How about the fact that cops frequently commit perjury with inpunity? How about cops beating people, tasing people, or even shooting people who are already handcuffed and under control?

How about something as obviously wrong as police abusing their power to sexually assault and rape women?

Maybe they could even do something trivial like call for police officers to stop abusing their power by routinely violating traffic laws while driving police cars when not on a call.

But no doubt the Oath Keepers will be the first to defend their brother officers (the abusive cops) and say that the beating victims or the people who were stopped and frisked due to looking black or the women who are sexually assaulted by cops must have been doing something wrong.

If they want to promote adherence to the Constitution they need to start in their own backyard by cleaning up the police forces they work for and show a sign that they care about someone’s rights other than the right of racist white men to be racist white men and own as many guns as possible.

Dave, of course the Constitution can change. There are two ways this can happen, either by a petition of 2/3s of the state legslatures or by 2/3s of both houses. It’s in Article 5, wisely put there by the framers.

The only thing that can’t change (unless Article 5 is itself amended first) is the right of equal suffrage for the states in the Senate, as far as I know.

Of course, now that the right of habeus corpus is meaningless in this country, thanks to the “Patriot Act”, it does seem rather questionable whether any of the rights in the Constitution have any value. Habeus corpus, dating back to the Magna Carta, is the right of rights upon which all other rights stand.

The history of democracy is filled with examples where rights have been suspended by force majeure (i.e. military rule or executive authority). That is exactly why so many people are alarmed by the “Oath Keepers”. We don’t want a parallel power taking shape.

Hey Jose,

It is certainly within your rights to boo Mrs Obama and Mrs Biden. No one is going to stop you from making a fool of yourself.

But don’t expect us not to call you on it.

We aren’t as ignorant as you are.

Jose, you are allowed to spit on the sidewalk, and people who see you do it just might not feel like inviting you to dinner.

Jose, it would be correct to boo the President, if you disapprove of his actions, and thank God for our Constitution that assures that right. To boo the First Lady and her daughter was totally uncalled for. I believe it was also a preplanned occurrence, not a spontaneous event.

I certainly support NOT booing the President, his wife, the Vice and his wife….
That said – HOW IN THE NAME OF GOD COULD ANYONE OF THE CHRISTIAN FAIITH SUPPORT ABORTION AND
HOMOSEXUALITY and think they are correct for doing so?
This comment has NOTHING to do with hate in any manner, it is simply a reflection of a conservative person. if what homosexuals do in their bedrooms is none of anyone’s business THEN WHY DO THEY TRY TO RAM IT DOWN THE PUBLICS THROAT? Every time we read the paper or hear the News ANOTHER GAY WANTS TO ANNOUNCE THEMSELVES! Give it a break people AND KEEP YOUR LIFESTYLE TO YOURSELVES – I DO…..

Hello all. I stand corrected, it is martial law, not marshall. I must apologize to all for my incorrect use of the word. Thank you Gregory. I was not intending to fear monger anything or anyone, so if I did, I apologize for that as well. Just making a point that martial law can happen if WE let it, not saying it will.

Thank you Aron for setting the facts straight on what happened in Boston and surrounding areas. Shows how easy it is to make assumptions with incomplete or incorrect information from the many various sources of information, or worse, to create (as in the case of some groups out there) a version of “truth” that they want the people to see. You are correct in searching for a person of interest. I’ve done it a time or two, but not in the U.S. and what the Constitution states, one has to be careful not to move into the realm of infringing on people’s rights.

Concerned Citizen, point taken with Hitler leading those easily lead by being a more aggressive fool. I wonder just how many of the citizens in 1930′s and 40′s Germany really thought what he was saying was the truth and believed it with all their heart.

Never did I state I belong to this group. What I did state is that I took an oath when I enlisted, commissioned, and started working for the government. Just like everyone else who joins as a LEO, military, or government employee (hence why this group targets these people – they’ve taken an oath that 95% of the population doesn’t and probably never will).

I have researched into the group and won’t join. I don’t like spending money on a group when I don’t know where my money is going. I do like their ideals, but like any group on the Right OR Left, what they intend and how they actually conduct business are typically completely different.

Take care everyone.

Sam Malloy ( posted above ) is correct. An Oath Keeper WOULD protect ALL Americans from even a “crazed right wing” administration and any and all laws ( such as DOMA) that conflict with the Constitution and an individuals human rights as codified or recognized by our Constitution. mark potock is so wrong headed about Oath Keepers, he bites his own nose to spite his face. We are not partisan, we can’t stand bushes policies either. I should know, I am the R.I. state education director for the R.I. Chapter of Oath Keepers. Don’t listen to mark any more, has no credibility. This comment will probably be deleted.

Erika, (posted above) is ALSO correct. Oath Keepers would not impose those things she has remarked about. Therefore, those who do those things/ violate the Constitution are not oath keepers but oath BRAKERS! and are roundly condemned by real Oath Keepers. “right wing” or “left wing” , does not matter to an oath keeper, ONLY the Constitution and it’s first principles matter, only law which is made “in pursuance thereof” as in Article 6, sec. 2. states. The Constitution is not “living” it is a set of hard and fast rules, able to be be amended by the lawful process of amendment or article five convention. NOT by supreme court decisions or false legislative acts which change the behavior of law enforcement and judges under COLOR of law. ( false law/ null and void on it’s face) . Real oath keepers are just as upset as Erika at ANY violation of the Constitution and the rights of man ( duh, and woman) and any race, sex, creed, etc. under the sun. We actually have black, Jewish, gay, female etc. members. We don’t care who you are or what you look like or who you sleep with as long as you pledge to protect the rights of everyone equally under the Constitution.

Sorry, oath breakers is how it should have read. fat fingers.

Lenard Smith, you seem to forget that homosexual people ARE the public. The other thing you seem to not quite understand is that the only reason why it ever became necessary to ACT UP/ACT OUT is because people like you support compulsory heterosexuality through the wall of silence. Though you may not consider yourself a hater, you are actively contributing to hatred by attempting to shame others for being who they are and the way God created them. If you want to preach silence and minding your own business, you might start by practicing what you preach, thou pharisee.

“We don’t care who you are or what you look like or who you sleep with as long as you pledge to protect the rights of everyone equally under the Constitution.”

Sorry, John that isn’t your perogative. You are usurping the public authority for private interests, such as tyrants have always done.

By the way “John” your claims about SCOTUS do not fit objective reality. Can you cite any examples of where the Supreme Court amended the Constitution? I’ll save you the trouble of scrambling around to justify your comments. You can’t, because it has never happened nor could it ever happen. In trying to tear down the judiciary, it is pretty clear that like most right wing radicals, you hate America.

Lenard Smith, you do not appear to be keeping much to yourself, least of all your fear that homosexuals want to shove their lifestyles down your throat.

John, the Constitution IS a living document. That’s why it was written in such vague terms. And that’s why judicial review exists.

I’m fairly certain I’ve sparred with you on other forums. And you’ve shown me just how capricious the ‘Oaf Beaters’ really are: when your little protest was delayed for two weeks in my hometown, you declared THE END OF THE FIRST AMENDMENT!

Go cry to Stewie. He’ll make everything better.

Aron’s right. The Constitution is a living document, much as the right wing would like to kill it.

Lenard, there are several books that explain how in the world anyone can be Christian and accept Homosexuality. One is called “Take Back the Word”. Jesus never spoke about it, but had plenty to say to the self righteous, pious hypocrites of that and all generations. As for being open about who we are, we are surrounded by an ambient straightness that just gets on our nerves sometimes. Let me show you a picture of my cat.

Aadilla and Aron, Why are you guys proclaiming such hateful stuff? I have read most of the other posts here and the Oath Keepers and those who support them have seemed to be very measured and even keeled. The splc folks seem to be attacking us with hate and vitriol. I don’t understand why you choose to believe that we are aho splc says we are but give no deference to our own comments. I am curious as to why you both feel the need to attack us viciously and spew hatred at us,and call us liars. I have fought for years for the rights of both gay and straight to be left alone to pursue their happiness without interference by the government( aka other citizens under color of law). I have a great debt of gratitude for a black man in my past, who helped me see the potential in my future and set me on the right path as a wonderful mentor,God bless him. I had a very dear friend in high school who was gay and I loved him dearly as a friend, not as a lover, because I am not gay, just different. That never stoped me from caring for him as a great human being. As to the scotus amending the Constitution, well, no, they have not actually amended it. What they did was a defacto (look it up) amendment in many cases and very adhoc to boot. But to zero in on just one such instance, the second amendment is very much so defacto amended by court and legislative action and thus, usurped by government or in some cases, majority rule. This is dangerous to not only my second amendment rights but to all civil rights, including the right to marry who ever you want. Democracy is dangerous to liberty because it only requires 51 percent to wrest control of the levers of power to manipulate and control the other 49%. Think of how dangerous you would claim that to be if “my people” ever got to be the 51 %. Ironically, if we did, you would experience the greatest freedoms you have ever had and would be the most secure, prosperous and happy people ever to live, because we would never allow you to be controlled by a minority or a majority period. Why all the hate and distrust?

Oh, and aron, my first amendment rights were severely impeded on April, 19th. A good man lost over 3,000 dollars on non refundable fees paid out to make the non event possible, which is bad enough. The Lexington police were very accommodating and some of them actually said they loved us. They understand, or some of them do, who the good guys are and who means the country and their fellow citizens harm. Here is a clue, it isn’t those good men and women, white,black, gay or straight Christian, Jew, Muslim, atheist or other, who swore,and continue to reaffirm their pledge to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic. It isn’t your fellow citizens who believe in truth, justice and freedom for ALL not just some special group or elite individuals. You really ought to reconsider your hatred and begin to reassess your position in life if you truly believe what I claim we believe. If you do not believe these things, as I and my fellow Oath Keepers do, that is fine, just be honest with us and tell us what you really envision for America. We can have that debate, I am not afraid. You will never catch me up in a lie about my beliefs. The truth is easy to recite time and time again without ever contradicting ones self. Only the guilty fear the truth. So who are you aron, and what do you really believe? Not what do you believe about Oath Keepers or my posts, what do YOU believe about fredom, rights, the Constitution, how America should look in the future? What laws do you support? What is in your heart about the eternal truths of the universe? please ,let us know who you are.

John, you’re the one who comes here spewing scorn and contempt. It’s public mobs of open-carry drum -bangers who impinge on the first amendment rights of all who disagree with you, and it’s entirely reasonable that this is your intent. I can clearly remember six decades of political developments at home and abroad, and I promise you that. this kind of armed braggodaccio wasn’t tolerated for five of them. Nobody means to infringe on your genuine liberties, but damned if we will allow anyone to use the implicit menace of violence to infringe on ours.

Take a deep breath, John. Paragraph breaks are your friends.

“Democracy is dangerous to liberty because it only requires 51 percent to wrest control of the levers of power to manipulate and control the other 49%. Think of how dangerous you would claim that to be if “my people” ever got to be the 51 %. Ironically, if we did, you would experience the greatest freedoms you have ever had and would be the most secure, prosperous and happy people ever to live, because we would never allow you to be controlled by a minority or a majority period. Why all the hate and distrust?”

John, first off, I don’t hate you. Never have, never will. I think your ideas are silly and narrow, but I don’t “hate” them or you.

And as for if your “51 percent” took power, it already has, and the result was slavery, child labor, racial segregation, women as second-class citizens, monopoly capitalism, sweatshops, and the military-industrial complex. How has this made the nation secure, prosperous, or happy.

We have the largest prison population of any nation in the world…I guess they’re secure.

And on “hate and distrust,” aren’t you the one always throwing out that we are “ASSuming” things about you? More importantly, if you’re so annoyed at how we argue with you, I’d like to point out, nobody put a .357 S&W to your skull and ordered you on pain of death, imprisonment, or having to watch reruns of “My Mother, the Car” to come here and bellow at us.

You come here, spout silly stuff, don’t expect us to gaze upon it with awe, wonder, and reverence…you can expect folks to fire back with varying degrees of irritation and anger at your tone, style, and content. Our First Amendment is as strong as yours. And if you’re annoyed with it, go elsewhere.

We object to people who call for armed revolt, armed violence, acts of violence towards others on the basis of ethnicity or sexual orientation, and practice such acts, and manifest hatred towards others on the basis of ethnicity or sexual orientation.

Personally, I further object to those who engage in such activities and public behaviors out of cynical and self-serving motives, deliberately lying to themselves, their followers, the law, and their God. I feel pity for people who act out their innermost torments by espousing membership and committing misdeeds and evils in the name of seditious or hateful ideologies. I feel anger towards people whose acts lead to their victims enduring personal pain, fear, suffering, and death. Many people died to rid the world of Nazism and its worship of destruction, genocide, and kleptomania. I therefore resent ignorant people who, 70 years later, publicly support its ideologies and seek to rehabilitate it.

I can’t speak for all of us, but I can pretty well guarantee that most of us are not going to follow you around just to argue with you…go and live your life, have pleasant time, and God be with you. I wish no harm upon you, and only ask that as you go through life, you practice the central tenet of Judaism: “What is hateful to yourself, do not do unto another. The rest is commentary. Go and study.”

Gregory, you beat me to it.

And John, considering what many of your compatriots were writing about me on Patch.com, you really aren’t in any position to criticize my attacks.

It was your people who cyber-stalked me. Not the other way around.

And as I said all along, if you feel your rights were broken, sue the Town of Lexington. The First Amendment allows for civil redress of grievances with the government.

If you decide not to exercise that right, it’s hardly my problem.

And one more thing: when your Right to Keep and Bear Arms infringes upon my rights to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness, then we’ve got a problem.

John,

There are strong opinions here, that’s not hate. I challenged you to support your claims and you did not rise to the challenge. I am not going to “look up” some factoid or falsehood you are citing; if you want to convince me, show me the proof.

The fundamental issue is not the moral fiber of the Oath Keepers. In my experience most military personnel are extremely ethical in conduct and honorable people. Police usually go into law enforcement for the same reasons, and as long as they respect the RIGHTS which are the basis upon which all laws stand, they also tend to adhere to high standards of professionalism.

The fundamental problem is the establishment of a zealot parallel power among the military/police class, organized to “step in” to oppose the will of the People. This can only be considered an arbitrary and tyrannical entity. I repudiate your invitation to “tell the Oath Keepers” what the People want. That is why we have Congress and an elected Executive. We don’t want or need a parallel power in America, and we sure as heck don’t need YOU with your hare brained ideas to stand in the way of the legitimate public power.

That you fear democracy itself and oppose the Judiciary’s just and correct function within our legal system is yet another reason for the Justice Department to start crashing down around you people and hauling you in as needed to ensure the public safety. At the very least, you should all should be monitored very closely for the clear menace you represent to our institutions.

We don’t want the stirrings of military dictatorship in America. We have a CIVILIAN at the head of our military for a reason. The military must always be kept on a tight leash to ensure a free state.

Aron,

Can you share any details of the cyberstalking you have suffered? I understand if you cannot, but I am quite certain you are not the only person in this forum who has been targeted for harassment/stalking because of your views. I think Rey had some problems and I have had them.

I wonder if the SPLC might expand its aegis to include legal protections and support for victims of cyberstalking, since a lot of the organized hate in America goes after individuals for expressing their views against hate. There are some new laws and new technologies always being developed that can help identify and punish your harassers, but I feel the problem of online harassment against individuals is large enough it requires the funding and capabilities of a large group like the SPLC.

Keep in mind that just because there is not a technology today to track them (and there might be), does not mean that tomorrow they will avoid being brought into criminal or civil court for what they have done today.

As a word of encouragement, great invididuals always attact hangers-on and nobodies. The fact that anyone would consider your ideas a threat to the point they would stalk and harass you merely shows their impotence and your strength. It also shows the government is not doing enough to protect political speech in cyberspace.

I’d point out that the First Amendment guarantees the right of *peaceable * assembly only. It protects neither armed riot nor the imminent threat of it, express or implied.

Aadila, it was a local news site, and some commenters decided to take it upon themselves to dig up some (not terribly) salacious details about my life to smear me.

I once engaged in role-playing games? How scandalous!

Basically, they read my FB account. And made asses of themselves.

People are idiots.

Like I said, Aron. Exceptional individuals, courageous ones, all draw hangers on. Consider their attention confirmation of your glory. Their whole life is so meaningless they have to go after the Internet Man. But I must warn you. Role playing games can land you in the company of demons for all eternity. At least that’s what Erika said. HAW HAW HAW.

aadila, i was just about ready to point out that additional clarity on what sort of “role playing games” were involved before realizing that according to Jack T. Chick all of them (especially the scandalous ones) would qualify as evil ;)

You never know, Erika. Aron _might_ have a demon.

Well, I do sometimes call my adorable dog Bones ‘Bealzebones,’ so you may not be so far off course, Aadila.