(Aron said,on June 3rd, 2013 at 8:47 am Amfortas, Let’s have some proof for your absurd claims. Put up or shut up.)

My clarifying reply in addition to the male favortism in college admissions:
The lowered standard on college admissions and other incentives like special male sports programs for males continue to be promoted despite the the burden of higher costs for educating males. ALL students must shoulder the extra costs male students entail whether from the increased vandalism males commit on campus or the added legal and medical/counseling costs from rapes and sexual assaults that the male are responsible for. Women students pay for the crimes and misconduct of male students, not only by the abuse the females sustain, but in the lower quality of campus life and learning. They pay for it monetarily in their tuition as well.
Some documentation of male on-campus behavior effecting all students:

College Serial Rapists Evade Antiquated Campus Responses
Bloomberg News, By John Lauerman – Jun 13, 2013 12:01 AM ET

Carly Mee, a student at Occidental College (78100MF), was hanging out with friends in late 2010 when a male student’s name came up. Mee was standing near Leah Capranica, a fellow sophomore, who said she’d had a bad experience with the student. The two women met the next day and told each other a secret: They had been sexually assaulted by the same man.

In April, a third female student came to the Occidental Sexual Assault Coalition, a group of students and faculty fighting campus rape, saying she had been assaulted by the same man and that he had been found responsible by the college, said Caroline Heldman, chairman of Occidental’s politics department and a faculty member of the group. “We’re talking about a perpetrator with several victims,” Heldman said. “It just seems like a no-brainer that if you identified a serial rapist, you would expel him.”

The women filed complaints with the college, and after investigations, the male student was found responsible for Mee’s attack, according to college documents, and admitted assaulting Capranica, she and university professors said. Occidental expelled him. A few months ago, Mee received word that the man would be allowed back to school the next academic year, after writing a report about a book on sexual assault. “The verdict wasn’t changed,” she said. “The punishment was changed. I asked why and no one could tell me.”

Across the country, colleges are under fire for using antiquated and amateurish procedures to prevent and investigate rapes and other sexual assaults on campus — have prompted anger from rape victims and scrutiny from the U.S. Education Department.

A group of Occidental students and alumni filed a Title IX complaint with the Education Department on April 18 saying the school doesn’t meet federal standards for preventing and responding to such attacks.
Similar complaints have been filed against Yale University, Swarthmore College and the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill. Swarthmore, in Pennsylvania, and UNC are conducting reviews of their sexual-assault policies.

“The young women who have come forward to report their assaults should feel protected, but the colleges have magnified their suffering,” said Gloria Allred, a Los Angeles-based attorney who is representing Mee, Capranica and other students who say they were sexually assaulted at Occidental and the University of Southern California. “These are institutional failures to comply with government regulations.”
Yale, based in New Haven, Connecticut, is facing a $165,000 Education Department fine for failing to report campus sexual assaults in 2001 and 2002.

Campus Assaults
At least one-quarter of women are sexually assaulted during their college years, according to studies published as recently as 2000 by the U.S. Justice Department and crime researchers. About 27 percent of college women are raped or suffer attempted rape, according to researchers at Wayne State University.

Serial Rapists
A relatively small minority of men are responsible for most of these attacks, according to David Lisak, a former University of Massachusetts clinical psychologist who consults to the U.S. military and colleges on sexual assault. In Lisak’s study of 1,882 college men, 120 admitted committing rape or attempted rape. They admitted to 483, or an average of 4 assaults each.

“College presidents don’t like to hear this, but these are sex offenders,” said Lisak, who spoke last month at Harvard University, sponsored by student group Harvard Men Against Rape. “Every report should be viewed and treated as an opportunity to identify a serial rapist.” Occidental President Jonathan Veitch declined to discuss specifics of Mee and Capranica’s cases, or disclose the name of the male student, citing state and federal privacy laws. Reducing punishments may be appropriate when new evidence comes to light, he said.

Amherst College is overhauling its sexual-assault response programs following a campus outcry over the school’s policies, a former student said she was raped in 2011 and the Amherst, Massachusetts-based school discouraged her from reporting. Until last year, students at the University of North Carolina could take sexual-assault complaints to Honor Court, a student-run conduct committee. “It was surprising to me that the Honor Court ever had jurisdiction over this in the first place,” said Kevin Diao, a UNC senior, in an interview in the campus student center. “We’re students here, we’re not investigators.”

Students often don’t report sexual assaults to the police because the assailants may be friends or acquaintances, and the victims may not want them arrested, said Linda Fairstein, former head of the sex crimes unit of the Manhattan District Attorney.

Two Weeks
Occidental, a 125-year-old, selective liberal arts college with about 2,100 students, gained attention after the election of U.S. President Barack Obama, who spent his first two years of college there in 1979-1981.
Mee had been at Occidental College (78100MF) about two weeks in 2009 when she went to a party and became intoxicated. A male student separated her from her friends, led her back to her room and raped her, she said. The next night, the same student forced his way into her dorm room and assaulted her again, Mee said. At first, she didn’t want to report the incidents. Mee said she received little education about sexual assault when she started college and didn’t understand what it meant to give consent. “I told a friend, and he said I was stupid for letting him in my room,” she said. “I felt I was somehow at fault.”

Always Leering
After she was assaulted, Mee said she continually saw her attacker leering at her in the school cafeteria, called “The Marketplace.” Friends told her they heard him talk about his enjoyment of dominating women, she said. She felt like she was always looking over her shoulder. “Oxy’s a small campus, and every party I went to I pretty much left in tears,” she said. “I couldn’t go out or even go to the place where we eat because I knew I’d see him.” She said she thought of leaving the school.

Capranica, the second victim, said she was attacked just before classes began her sophomore year in 2010. She suspected her assailant had given her drinks that might have been spiked.
Mee and Capranica declined to name their attacker. Students are often reluctant to identify assailants publicly because of the risk of legal reprisals from them or their families.

Accused Students
College investigations can also be “quite disadvantageous” for accused students, said Fairstein, the former prosecutor. Those students may not be allowed to use lawyers or call witnesses, or have the rights of someone charged in the criminal justice system, she said. “The accused may well be deprived of what we think of as due process,” she said. Allred declined to name any of the women’s alleged assailants. She and her clients are investigating cases against the college, not the assailants, at this time, she said.

When Capranica first talked with school officials about reporting the incident, she said they discouraged her. They said her assailant wouldn’t be expelled even if he was found responsible, and she would still see him on campus. They also discouraged her from going to police, Capranica said. When the school began investigating Capranica’s complaint, the male student admitted to assaulting her, according to Capranica and professors who helped her file her case. He was put on probation and told to write a book report. Capranica said the investigators didn’t talk to witnesses who might have helped establish his predatory behavior. She decided to graduate early, at the end of 2012, because she felt let down by Occidental.

Mee found her investigation even more frustrating.Ten Times
Between the investigators, administrators and officials at the hearing, Mee said she told her story about 10 times. She left each meeting in tears and had trouble sleeping. She took incompletes in two classes, finishing during vacation time, she spent much of her time doing homework in the library’s basement. She joined a support group and began seeing a therapist, saying she felt depressed.

Mee asked whether her assailant could be moved off campus during the investigation. A school administrator who had spoken with the alleged attacker said he wasn’t dangerous enough to be asked to leave, Mee said. “They acted like they could judge his character just from meeting with him,” she said.

December Return
After the three-month probe, the man Mee accused was found responsible for her assault and expelled, according to documents. In accordance with school procedures, he filed an appeal. Then, on Jan. 12, Mee got a message from the Office of Student Conduct, saying the male student would be allowed to return to campus in December, after she graduated. He would also have to write a report on a book about sexual assault, Mee said.

In April, a third female student came to the Occidental Sexual Assault Coalition, a group of students and faculty fighting campus rape, saying she had been assaulted by the same man and that he had been found responsible by the college, said Caroline Heldman, chairman of Occidental’s politics department and a faculty member of the group. “We’re talking about a perpetrator with several victims,” Heldman said. “It just seems like a no-brainer that if you identified a serial rapist, you would expel him.”

After graduating last month, Mee is planning on law school next year, following her mother, who specializes in arbitration and mediation. Mee said she’s unlikely to return to Occidental in the months or years to come because the male student will be back on campus. “I can’t come back and visit the college I went to and visit my friends,” she said. “And if he comes back, there are other people at risk of being assaulted.”

Marilyn Hesser, a senior associate director of admissions at Richmond, “The board of trustees has said that the admissions office can go as far as 55-45 [women to men].” “Was [the male applicant's] high school GPA lower? Perhaps.” A thumb on the scale. U.S. News has found that over the past 10 years many schools have maintained their gender balance by admitting men and women at drastically different rates. Maintaining gender equity on some campuses appears to require a thumb on the scale in favor of boys. It’s at these schools, including Pomona, Boston College, Wesleyan University, Tufts, and the College of William and Mary, that the gap in admit rates is particularly acute.

Boys will be boys. Male applicants, meanwhile, are often at an advantage-so much so that college counselors have begun advising some boys to “emphasize their maleness,” says Steve Goodman, a longtime independent college counselor. He encourages male students to submit pictures or trumpet their sports activities “anything to catch an admissions officer’s eye.” Some colleges, like Lake Erie College in Ohio and Husson College in Maine, are making extra efforts to attract male applicants by creating football teams. Others are emphasizing hands-on learning and reaching out to all-male high schools.

Do college admissions officers discriminate against girls?
By Valerie Strauss Wash Post 11/17/2009
Is it easier for boys to get accepted into college than it is for girls?
You may be surprised to learn that the answer is yes.

The U.S. Commission on Civil Rights has just begun investigating admissions practices to see if schools are favoring boys according to a recent report from Inside Higher Ed. Many more girls apply to college than boys, to maintain gender balance, a larger percentage of male applicants are taken than female.

For example, according to data that is online in the Common Data Set, the College of William and Mary in Williamsburg, Va., receives almost twice as many applications from girls each year as it does from boys. The percentage of male applicants admitted to the college is much higher than for girls. I asked William and Mary’s admissions dean, Henry Broaddus, about the numbers. Here’s what he said:
“It’s not the College of Mary and Mary; it’s the College of William and Mary.”

Here are some statistics from William and Mary, and two other schools, Harvard University and the University of Virginia, that show the different approaches by admissions. A reader told us about the stats, and I checked them on line at the university’s websites, where they provide Common Core data. The links are below.
HARVARD UNIVERSITY:
2008:
male: 13,660 applied; 1,073 accepted , or about 8 percent
female: 13,802 applied, 1,102 accepted, or about 8 percent
2007:
male: 11,389 men applied; 1,042 accepted, or about 9 percent
female: 11,566 applied; 1,066 accepted, or about 9 percent
2006:
male: 11,030 men applied; 1,024 accepted, or about 9 percent
female: 11,724 applied; 1,101 accepted, or about 9 percent

UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA:
2008-09:
male: 8,380 applied; 3,014 accepted, or about 36 percent
women: 9,983 applied; 3,721 accepted, or about 37 percent
2007-08:
male: 8,121 applied; 2,742 accepted, or about 34 percent
women: 9,677 applied; 3,531 accepted, or about 36 percent
2006-07:
male: 7,218 applied; 2,680 accepted, or about 37 percent
women: 8,868 applied; 3,339 accepted, or about 38 percent

WILLIAM AND MARY:
male: 4,309 applied; 1,859 accepted, or about 43 percent
female: 7,327 applied; 2,107 accepted, or about 29 percent
2007-08:
male: 3,930 applied; 1,713 accepted, or about 43.5 percent
female: 6,923 applied; 1,942 accepted, or about 28 percent
2006-07:
male: 3,812 applied; 1,671 accepted, or about 44 percent
female: 6,910 applied; 1,797 accepted, or about 26 percent

Let’s have some proof for your absurd claims.

Put up or shut up.

There is no instances of colleges lowering their standards to attract more men in. This is completely ridiculous. Women specific grants, quotas and government policies are benefiting women’s enrollment despite them being the majority in colleges. Colleges have in fact been doing everything they can to keep men out. Your implication is that women are naturally intellectually superior and will of course be the majority in academia without colleges lowering their standards to enroll the dumber men. Of course this is patently absurd in addition to sexist and dare I say grade school level childish.

The “1 in 71 men have been raped” stat from the CDC survey doesn’t tell the whole story. It defines “rape” as the attacker penetrating the victim, which excludes women who use their vagina to rape a man (rape by envelopment) which is counted as “made to penetrate”. The very same survey says “1 in 21 men (4.8%) reported that they were made to penetrate someone else,” which is far more than 1 in 71. Also, the study says that 79.2% of male victims of “made to penetrate” reported only female perpetrators, meaning they were raped by a woman.

The above, lifetime stats do show a lower percentage of male victims (up to 1.4% rape by penetration + 4.8% made to penetrate = 6.2%) than female victims (18.3%) although it is far more than the 1 in 71 you stated. However, if you look at the report’s stats for the past 12 months, just as many number of men were “forced to penetrate” as women were raped, meaning that if you properly define “made to penetrate” as rape, men were raped as often as women.

It does apply to women.

My mother was a CRNA. According to her, doctors are either required to get spousal permission by law for BOTH sexes, or they do it for liability reasons, even if the state has no law requiring it. Some hospitals require it before they’ll do the procedure. It varies a whole lot by state.

When I wanted a tubal ligation in 1992, the doctor demanded that I get my husband’s permission. I don’t know if it were required by the hospital or the state, but that doctor would NOT do it until my husband weighed in.

So it’s not just the poor pitiful men who are required to do this, contrary to what the idiot troll implies.

Meanwhile its almost Memorial Day weekend and while temperatures here are going to be more suited for sweatpants than a bikini there should still be plenty of radiant joy :)

The connection between the male supremacists and religious fundamentalism is especially scary given the fondess of certain religious fundamentalists for bringing back Old Testament law and the practice of stoning

To clarify, what I was talking about was the practice of burning at the stake in general, during the Inquisition period, which was a penalty meted out for heresy (as Rey observes). That penalty was quite common for both men and women, which is not to suggest women weren’t singled out at different times for different reasons.

I do think it is worth pointing out that those were not exactly carefree times for either men or women. Unless you consider being drawn and quartered — an equivalent penalty as burning at the stake generally reserved for men — a joyride.

I have been around male crossdressers,transvestitles or drag queens. To say these men are more womwen than womwn> That’s a laugh!
I am still in the early stages about underststanding transgenderism. I have always those go this route(particularly birth men, would have become more feminized and prefer female stuff, when they taken their
estogen. The jury is still out whether to call trangender women legitimate women and transgendered men legitimate men. More studies needs to be done insttead of
accepting the LGBT pro[aganda, who wishes to brainwashing Americans that a duck can be made into a goose, but will it honk like a gopse or quack like a duck?

As it became policy for the Church to confiscate the property of “witches”, far more men were accused , and wealthy ones, at that. Strange, isn’t it?

As for Sam, he is our resident spoiled child, who cheeks us because it is safe to do so. This is his way of demonstrating his independence: by taking the side of those who would make mincemeat of him if they could get him. I bet you he doesn’t go to *their* forums and act like that.

I refer you and anyone interested to “The Authoritarians” by Bob Altemeyer, a Canadian doctor of psychology who has specialized in the psychology of both authoritarian pack dogs and the Masters of Hounds who put them on the trail of selected targets. You can download the book as a free PDF from his site and several that have hosted him. It’s a remarkable look into the minds of mean people.

Check your facts Concernedcitizen. “A Child Called It” is a work of fiction as the rest of the family of its author attested. But it made tons of money, so he kept writing books cause everyone loves to read about a monstrous woman: ergo Lillith, Eve and the millions of “witches” who had to be burned at the stake. Get those evil women, right?

As for women now being the majority of college students whereas in the past they were discriminated against or actually barred from admission to most colleges. Surprise, now that men are in a minority in college enrollment it has been found that some colleges are lowering their requirements for males to bulk up their male student numerical body. Wow, is there no way in which they’re not catered to? And still they complain.

Like the white supremacists, the male supremacists are trying to pretend that their goal is “rights” ignoring the fact that they do not representh groups that have been historically (or currently) discriminated against. In both cases, the rights they care about are only rights for members of their groups.

Like the white supremacists, the idea of violence is often right under the surface of the male supremacists at all times – in both cases you see exaggerated claims of victimization against their group by others. They claim that the other group is exceptionally violence – the white supremacists claim that non-whites are exceptionally violent. MAle supremacists claim that women are exceptionally violent. Both also claim that the violence is not punished or that the others get away with it – hence hte male supremacists claiming that women frequently assault men and are unpunished.

You also see an obsession with sexual violence – white supremacists are obsessed with the idea of black men raping white women – male supremacists are obsessed by rape in general but especially by the idea of women raping men (despite the fact that caes of adult women raping adult males so exceedingly rare to be are almost unheard of.

Like the white supremacists, the male supremacists.are also prone to be drawn towards violence against the “others” – hence male supremacist are drawn towards violence against women – whether physical or sexual – scratch the surface of the men’s rights mysognistis and you see a celebration of violence against women – especially violent physical assaults and rape.

At the same time, in both groups you see a denial that their group is at all prone to violence.

Both groups also seem to have poessesstory views towards women – in other words they view women as their personal property

Both groups also display ideologies of impotency – they believe that their groups (whether whites or men) are uniquely weak and powerless (a clearly absurd view since white men are collectively the most powerful and wealthiest group i nthe world)

In fact, both the white supmreacists and the male supremacists both somehow think that their groups are the only victims. And that the only way to protect their individual rights is to take someone else’s rights (women, non-whites) away.

But overall there is very little difference ultimately between a white supremacist and a male supremacist – their claims to only be interested in civil rights are a lie which masks their real agenda to have their group control everything.

and ultiamtely i suspect that there is quite a bit of overlap – hence, i suspect that many white supremacists are also men’s rights people and vice versa.

Interesting points raised. I know a very dedicated feminist in California who refused to accept money in a divorce because she felt it compromised her principles, even though she was legally entitled. Their children are cared for by the father, quite well in fact. So I don’t think feminism is the real issue.

When sorting out the injustices in America it seems like there is a never ending list. For my own triage of social problems I rank economic injustice pretty high up, because this affects all aspects of life. As you are surely aware, women continue to suffer from widespread wage disparity and while there are examples of access to the higher levels of management in the business world, these examples remain, well, exemplary and far from the norm.

Couple this with a huge and organized movement to eradicate reproductive freedom, which is the institutionalization of gender oppression on the very wide scale. So with these two examples we see some very high priority issues.

I don’t speak for the SPLC, as I am just an observer. But I think the reason why the MR movement is under scrutiny is how quickly rational, legitimate concerns such as you raise become swamped by the collective effort to halt whatever gains have been made to bring social and economic equality to women. If the pace has been faster on the side of women’s rights in the past few decades, compare that with the last few millenia of oppression.

In the fullness of time, I hope to see the issues you raise addressed and solved. In fact, I support doing so now. But not if cloaked in misogyny and not-so-subtle political will to reverse gains for women. I hope American society can embrace a third way between the apophatic and oppositional arguments for gender equality, based not on hate or “winning” some war but on mutual respect and simple human kindness.

There are lots of things that can be done in corporate America — following the example of Europe — to make our society friendlier to parents in general, less mercenary in terms of economic exploitation of workers and more dedicated to solid families and constructing the type of society where hapiness at home is not secondary to the profits of the elite.

Of course, the men’s rights activitsts don’t focus on a legitimate issue like looking at why boys and men are falling behind academically and educationally. They are not looking at one of the primary factors which is the fact that so many young men get arrested for petty crimes (such as drug dealing) and get draconian drug war sentences. They do not look for reasons why girls might be beating boys at all levels of achievement now and why many colleges are now having problems with attracting male students

They also do not look at the social changes which are coming to many professions such as law as more and more law school graduates are female (women have been the majority for a decade and are now the vast majority of law school graduates) – there is much more demand now for a work-life balance than before – and law is hardly an exception. In fact, many women now want to be able to have both careers and have children (or if they want children they have no choice but to have careers because it is extremely expensive to have children).

They also do not look at the social changes – including the education gap – as well as economic changes which essentially require women to work – there are very few cases where you can support a family on a single income anymore – and given that women are achieving more econimically its quite likely that the woman will be the one with the career.

Instead they complain about having to compete with women – which is odd because if anything the available evidence suggests that women are not competiting with men – they are beating them. Such complaints reveal an extreme impotence – because ultimately male supremacy like white supremacy are ideologies of impotence and weakness. The male supremacists may claim that men are supreme but deep down in their hearts they believe that men are inferior.

and while its not exactly a secret that i have not always been treated very well by men, how many times do i have to tell you men’s rights mysognists that i am not anti-male – i am anti-stupidity???

i happen to like smart men very much :)

yes, you really disproved the notion that women are the primary victims of domestic abuse there.

and of course, one always has to wonder exactly what definition of domestic abuse they are using. A loud argument that results in the cops being called or tossing a teddy bear at someone may be classifed as “Domestic Violence” the same as a violent beating resulting in serious injury, rape, or murder – but they are hardly comparable in severity. And overwhelmingly the victims of these very violent domestic assaults are overwhelmingly female. And who knows, the men’s rights mysognists could well claim that a woman “nagging” them to take the trash out is emotional abuse and therefore according to them the equivilent domestic abuse to a violent beating or rape.

Another factor could be whether assaults against children are included within their definition as domestic assaults – domestic assaults are defined as assaults against a family member – while assaults against children are generally classified as child abuse or sexual abuse of a child they could be included within the domestic assault total – if so, that would dramatically increase the number of male victims since while girls are the primary victims of childhood sexual assault, boys are likely physically abused as children at the same or maybe even a higher rate than girls.

A final factor which makes determining domestic violence rates difficult to compare across jurisdictions is the differing legal treatment of same sex relationships – in some jurisdictions, an assault by a same sex partner will be classified as a domestic assault – in others it will not be. It is likely – given that it is known that males are much more likely to commit domestic abuse – that in jurisdictions which legally recongize same sex relationships as being domestic assaults that the percentage of male victims will likely increase.

And honey, no one is saying that men are not victims of domestic assault – no one is saying that men in those relationships do not need help. What is riduculous is you men’s rights activitists somehow pretending that you are the real victims – its about as silly as O.J. Simpson announcing that he was going out searching for the “real killer” (how is that going btw?) – when even your own statistics show that overwhelmingly the victims of domestic violence are female and the perps are overwhelmingly male.