Ladies and gentlemen: the Modern American Christian.

Let’s state the truth about these people they are not Christians, they in no way resemble Christians.

As far as the hate in Tennessee it doesn’t stop at Muslims there is a horrible cancerous movement in that state against minorities period!

It is very sad to see that the very monsters pointing fingers are the monsters we should all be concerned about and they are racist Americans claiming to be Christians promoting hate, anger and violence towards others through words and at times actions.

They don’t always use bullets but they use their actions and words to violate civil rights and to disrupt peace at every turn.

As Americans we should be ashamed that these people claim to be part of the American people because that is not what America stands for and they put the most ugliest face on this nation.

Freedom of speech, as interpreted by authoritarians and bigots, has been demonstrably proven to be theirs to slander, incite violence, and silence whoever disagrees.

Like most Americans I do not know any Muslims personally and know very little about their religion. The only time most of us hear about them is when some Jihadist blows up innocent people. Is there any wonder there is so little trust? It is up to the Muslims themselves to prove these people wrong. A suggestion might be to unify to harshly denounce Jihadists and help the G prosecute those clerics who promote violence.

Aron,

You wrote,

“Ladies and gentlemen: the Modern American Christian.”

More like the modern bigoted far right American Christian. Also, at least some of these guys I don’t think are Christians at all, I don’t think Pamela Geller is.

Pam Geller is most definitely not Christian, something that caused me pause before I decided to post the comment anyway.

But almost all of her followers are conservative Christians, and sadly, they are the face of modern American Christianity.

And hey Sam, here’s an idea: WHY DON’T YOU GO OUT AND ACTUALLY MEET SOME MUSLIMS?

You really do vex me sometimes.

Sam, the odds that any of the billion or so peaceful Moslems in the world will be able to prove to your ignorant self’s satisfaction that they do not support the Jihadist is ratther small.

i assume that in the names of fairness the next time some Christian nutcase bombs an abortion clinic or a Mosque that you will demand that all billion or so of the World’s Christians condemn that action.

Or is that different because you actually know Christians who are not wild eyed extremist abortion clinic bombers?

Sweetie, Ignorance is not a good place to be judging a group comprising of approximately a billion people from

Sam, take off the damn earmuffs. They do. You don’t listen.

Sam,
You might find this interesting. Here is what Muslims thik about Jesus:

Muslims respect and revere Jesus, and await his Second Coming. They consider him one of the greatest of God’s messengers to mankind. A Muslim never refers to him simply as ‘Jesus’, but always adds the phrase ‘upon him be peace’. The Quran confirms his virgin birth (a chapter of the Quran is entitled ‘Mary’), and Mary is considered the purest woman in all creation. The Quran describes the Annunciation as follows:

^[6]

Oddly, you may find you have more in common with those whom you fear and distrust rather than with those with whom you argue on this forum.

I don’t condone the rude behavior of the crowd. It is disrespectful. But I do want to point out that nine times out of ten it would be the left wing antifas doing the heckling. Also in many perhaps most Muslim countries, the people being heckled would also be manacled and stoned for straying from the politically orthodox path. Where is freedom of speech in Muslim countries?

Sam States: It is up to the Muslims themselves to prove these people wrong.

So every time a white supremacist goes out and commits a violent crime all the while claiming to be a Christian then it is up to the entire Christian community to prove that they don’t support the actions of this one idiot and they should bear the burden of the guilty? That’s an interesting concept Sam.

I propose that it is the responsibility of the one committing the crime that bears the burden and legal responsibility to be tried for his or her actions.

It is not the burden of innocent White Christians to have to prove anything, just as it is not the problem of peace loving Muslims to have to stand trial for those unknown to them committing crimes.

Well Gregory it appears you have applied the purest form of intelligence, to read and discover for yourself before picking up the pitch fork and joining the lynch mob.

I applaud you.

These nutjobs have no idea what it is to be an American. They have no concept of the most important laws and traditions of the United States, which are freedom of worship and religious tolerance. They, not the Muslims, are the problem.

Sam said “Like most Americans I do not know any Muslims personally and know very little about their religion.”

Well Sam, that would appear to be your shortcoming, not the shortcoming of Muslim Americans.

Sam also said “It is up to the Muslims themselves to prove these people wrong. A suggestion might be to unify to harshly denounce Jihadists and help the G prosecute those clerics who promote violence.”

Sam, do you hold all Christians responsible for henious actions of the Westboro Baptists? Do you hold all Christians responsible when some anti-abortion activist murders a doctor? It seems to me that you have a bit of a double standard.

I don’t know that these people really represent modern Christians as much as they are Fundamentalists. It is the Fundamentalism that is the problem regardless of whether it is Muslims, Jews or Christians (I have yet to meet a Fundamentalist Buddhist or Hindu). They all are WAY too vocal, wacky and righteous. They ALL claim to have the absolute monopoly on Truth and they are ALL intolerant of anyone who isn’t like them. (They also seem to have an issue with music and dancing). II have come to the conclusion that Fundamentalism in any form is inherently evil due to their inability to even tolerate let alone get along with anyone who isn’t part of their little NOISY sect.

What a shame. The event sounded like a good idea.

Christian fundamentalist logic:

Muslims build mosque, practice religion: “THEY’RE TRYIN’ TO PUT THAT SHARIA LAW ON US!!! STOP THEM!”

Fundamentalist Christians run around trying to shove their religion down everyone’s throat and backing legislation of their traditional, sacred values which they discovered around 1977: “WE’RE JUST PRACTICING OUR RELIGION? WHY ARE YOU PERSECUTING US?!”

The delightful Pamela Geller whine about her precious freedom of expression being taken away while her supporters loutishly disrupt a peaceful conference…..ah the irony !

If these people truly want to fight against the evils of Islam, they should go off to Iran, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Somalia, or some other such state. Broadly speaking, the US Muslim population works, pays taxes, and so on and so forth.

I don’t think the protesters understand how freedom of speech works or what irony is.

As a native of Tennessee, I am greatly ashamed that this keeps happening.

I was born in New York City, 1936 and I remember the torturous ways the Japanese Americans were treated during WW11. God almighty we never learned from that. What a wasteful attitude hate is!

concernedcitizen,

Huh? You lost me.,

I re-read the post that cc is referencing and I can see that it was written in haste. To clarify, my point is that Sam might find that he has many things in common with the Muslims that he fears and distrusts with regards to religious beliefs. a

In finding that common ground he may also find that very few are jihadis, despite what Faux News may tell him. He may discover that they are real Americans, just like himself. Maybe, if we are lucky.

Westboro Baptist Church, although wrong in their theology, does not blow up innocent people in shopping centers. And no abortion clinics have been blown up for years, either. Don’t give violence a pass in the name of diversity.

” But I do want to point out that nine times out of ten it would be the left wing antifas doing the heckling.”

Really? Where were antifas heckling people for practicing their religion.

“Also in many perhaps most Muslim countries, the people being heckled would also be manacled and stoned for straying from the politically orthodox path. Where is freedom of speech in Muslim countries?”

Sorry, not in “most Muslim countries” but in fact very few. But the bottom line is that it doesn’t matter what rights people have in other countries when it comes to this case. These people aren’t trying to impose those traditions on the US and they are Americans who enjoy the same 1st Amendment rights of everyone else.

I support Pamela Geller one hundred percent. Now is the time for us to take America Back and not allow The U.S. to become another London or Paris. I’ve been to Paris twice, and I thought that I was in Baghdad, instead of Paris, France. It’s just a matter of time until France and probably Great Britain become an islamic state. And when this happens, we will have to forego our equal rights and freedoms in the western world, as we now know it.

Why am I not surprised that a ‘racial realist’ like Jared Pierce here would take the name ‘Curious Quisling?’

Begone, neo-Fascist scum. Scoot on back to VNN.

Michelle Malkin and Daniel Pipes have justified the internment of Japanese-Americans. See “The Case for Internment” by Malkin and “Sayonara, Jihad” by Pipes.

Of course, they’re justifying an old injustice to inflict a injustice on a new “enemy.” They are evil and must be opposed 24/7.

These sorts of people just have to hate somebody. Life would not be good for this group. This is the south folks and they hate everybody who doesn’t look, talk, dress, and believe like they do. They might want to take a closer look at an old southern tradition, inbreeding!

And I thought the Tea bag klan believed in the US Constitution ? But, it appears they only like it you believe only in their religious brand.

I am thankful they don’t get to select the President for the rest of us :-)

Probably protestant evangelical bigots there’s no excuse for these kinds of activities. You attend those kinds of meetings with an open mind or stay home.They accomplish nothing but then the ignorant never did.

The Christians are the actual terrorist organization. George W. (baby Bush) said that god told him to invade Iraq over the so called wmd’s that conveniently didn’t exist. The war on terror is basically a fake war making idiot Fox new watching (ignorant) Americans the threat to the Muslim world. Did I mention brainwashed too?

So very true Missy, and Pierce they don’t have freedom of speech.

Every part of the world does not live by American standards and laws. And really it’s not our place to force them to do so.

I had to respond to what Aron said,,,
“And hey Sam, here’s an idea: WHY DON’T YOU GO OUT AND ACTUALLY MEET SOME MUSLIMS?’

Now, I’m not going to talk about whether Sam is right or wrong in what he’s saying, but Aron, you do realise there are places in the US where they’re aren’t any Muslims. Do you expect people to go to other towns just to meet a Muslim? Would you tell Christians who have never met Jews (and I’m sure they do exist) to go out and meet a Jew? Both ideas sound a bit simplistic and even bigoted to me.

I happen to live in a university town where there are quite a few Muslims. I have met some people whom I know to be Muslim and others who might be. An example of the latter is a Turkish guy I know who is an avant-garde musician and composer. That’s what I know him as. A musician. I know him from a group of other musicians. I don’t know if most of these (mostly Anglo) musicians are Christians or not, but there is one man who might be Jewish, based on his name, but then again maybe he’s not. There is also a woman in this group from mainland China. Is she a Buddhist – an atheist – a Communist? I don’t know, nor do I particularly care. I know these people as musicians, and the subject of religion never comes up.

My point is, some people in one group may very well never meet people in another. It is unlikely that I will ever encounter people from the Mian or Mekeo tribes of New Guinea. That does not mean that I am bigoted against them, and that would remain true if someone told me members of those tribes were in my town and I just didn’t feel the need to meet them.

I don’t know whether Sam is a bigot or not, but telling him (or others) to go out and meet a Muslim is not the solution for these problems.

“Where is freedom of speech in Muslim countries?”

Uh, even in Iran there are widescale public protests. Where are you getting your data, from talk radio? Simple kneejerk opinions? I doubt you have actually even been to a Muslim country, and yet here you are, sharing your expert viewpoint on the matter.

Meanwhile, right here at home, with the “valor theft” law just signed by Obama, people can now spend a year in jail for lying about having a medal. Jail time for speech crimes. Forget Muslim countries. Where is freedom of speech in America?

Sam.

As an atheist, every time I see an American Christian they are always abusing someone who is different, be it for skin colour, belief or sexual preference.

I never see the American Christian community speak out against these people. I think it is safe to assume that they tacitly support such extremists.

Now, now, they are asserting their freedom of screech.

Freedom of speech is fundamental in a true democracy. Whether or not one is in agreement w/ what is being said is not the point. Although I find myself diametrically opposed to almost everything fundamentalist Christians say & do one cannot deny them the right to spout their evil, vitriolic, hate filled trash no matter how offensive it is to moderate accepting people of this country. Progressive persons must be patient. Hate, bigotry, and intolerance will eventually die on it’s own. It is a disease without cure, and it’s demise will be slow, torturous and painful. My only worry is how many good people will have to fall before the end finally comes. America will always stand tall & we will prevail over hate & bigotry no matter how long it takes.

This is Scott, New Media Manager here at SPLC. I apologize for the stoppage in approving comments over the last few days. We’re back on track and will be moderating more frequently.!

DDB9000,

Based on his comments, Sam is very much bigoted against Muslims.

And I am very willing to bet there is either a mosque or Islamic Center within driving distance of his home in Kentucky.

I am not advocating that everyone meet everyone. But just like the stories about Christians meeting Jews for the first time, and asking to see their horns (I have seen it happen), familiarity breeds understanding.

It may be a simplistic solution, but I have been dealing with Sam for quite some time now. And sometimes simple is the only way to get through to him.

DDB9000

I think it is possible through the marvel of online community to interact with people of all faiths, even if situated in a locale where Muslims are poorly represented. Your argument, while reasoned, seems to suggest that minority groups deserve what they get from mainstream bigotry (Sam, I don’t mean you) because they are minority groups.

Your point about the Jewish faith seems has something to it, since yes of course going out and stopping someone to say “Wow I always wanted to meet a Jew!” seems a little uncouth. But let’s not overlook the material fact that the U.S. is at war — declared or not — with various Muslim countries and that anti Muslim bigotry is at an all time high.

I think Aron’s comment can be reduced to the notion that stereotypes tend to crumble when there is interaction between people of different values, faiths, races, sexual orientation, etc. What’s the problem with that?

That is not to suggest someone who never or seldom interacts with a different kind of person is a bigot. It means people who are basing their worldview on completely ignorant stereotypes should broaden their perspectives a bit. If you agree with that idea, what method do you propose might work beyond personal interaction with Muslims?

As an aside, it is unlikely that an immigrant from mainland China would be a Buddhist unless she started practicing outside of China. Buddhists were persecuted during the Cultural Revolution and only very recently has tolerance been re-established. It is not unheard of for immigrants from China to have their first encounter with Buddhism in the United States.

” and not allow The U.S. to become another London or Paris. ”

I was just in London and it was wonderful. Can Muslims turn my home city into London, please?

“I’ve been to Paris twice, and I thought that I was in Baghdad, instead of Paris, France.”

Obviously you are quite confused. I’ve been to London, Berlin, etc. and while the Muslim population is noticeable I wasn’t so stupid as to mistake it for say, Turkey.

Aron what you say is true familiarity does breed understanding.

When you have lived and worked amongst gay people it becomes increasingly difficult to understand why people would want to hurt them just because of their lifestyle choice.

Not to say that there are not unpleasant people from all walks of life who we may find greatly distasteful but not just based on religious beliefs, color of skin or two loving adults of the same sex.

Nasty people transcend all of those paradigms they are nasty despite what they believe or what they may look like.

Aron, I am indeed bigoted against a group of people that blow up innocent people, and run governments that persecute other religions and hang Gay people. One would think that the SPLC and their flock of pets would also be against these things. Being simple, I don’t understand this dichotomy.

“and their flock of pets”… Sam, you are a piece of work. At the risk of another tongue lashing from aadila, I will keep my comments about your obdurate ignorance brief.

Surely, you are familiar with The Fellowship, the evangelical lobby in DC? And how they are helping to craft laws in places like Uganda that make homosexuality a crime punished by death? ( ^[7] )

Turn off Fox News, do some reading and come back to engage in a reasoned conversation. You may find that your fellow evangelicals are just as bad as those evil mooslims that have you so frightened.

Sam, for Pete’s sake you live in Kentucky. You have a fiercely homophobic legislature. Why do you rail against the ‘other’ when you have a moral enemy RIGHT AT HOME?

You are one of the most confusing people I’ve ever dealt with. You seem to adore the people who despise you.

By all accounts, you seem to be a massively self-hating gay conservative. Why else would you follow these people?

AND NOT MOVE TO A STATE MORE AMENABLE TO YOUR LIFESTYLE????

You insult my home state of Marxachusetts, but you have conveniently forgotten we have some of the most gay-friendly legislators in the country.

Perhaps you’ve heard of Provincetown? It is a paradise both for homosexuals and heterosexuals alike. (Not as wonderful as Martha’s Vineyard, from which I am writing this comment. Of course;)

You’re a smart guy. I think if we were to meet in real life, we would probably be friends. But as someone who genuinely likes you, I urge you to rethink your political philosophy.

You’re better than that.

Hating others should not be done blindly, but based on real facts, why they are doing those things, not just because you hate for the sake of hating someone.

“Also in many perhaps most Muslim countries, the people being heckled would also be manacled and stoned for straying from the politically orthodox path. Where is freedom of speech in Muslim countries?”

As Americans, we aren’t responsible for what other countries have as their laws and how their citizens behave. We ARE responsible for our own government. That’s what the “freedom” the right wing is always screeching about MEANS. What you’re suggesting is that since (some) predominantly Muslim countries have bad laws and unjust persecution of speakers, we don’t have to do anything about our own behavior becasue it’s not as bad as that. I don’t think that is the standard we want to aspire to.

>” It is up to the Muslims themselves to prove these people wrong.”

Isn’t that what the purpose of the forum was that was disrupted?