Hatewatch Tweets
Hatewatch is managed by the staff of the Intelligence Report, an investigative magazine published by the Alabama-based civil rights group Southern Poverty Law Center.
Ohio Militia Calls for Armed March on Washington
The self-identified leader of the Ohio Militia, a conspiracy-minded “Patriot” group, released a video earlier this week calling for 1 million heavily armed antigovernment demonstrators to march on Washington, D.C., this coming July 4.
“We need to do something,” he said. “We need to make a dent.”
Identifying himself as “Pale Horse,” apparently a reference to the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, and speaking through a creepy voice distorter, the Ohio militiaman detailed his brazen vision: “A peaceful demonstration of at least a million — hey, if we can get 10 million, even better — but at least one million armed militia men marching on Washington. A peaceful demonstration. No shooting, no one gets hurt. Just a demonstration. The only difference from any typical demonstration is we will all be armed.”
The Ohio Militia website contains apocalyptic language and imagery, along with references to various 9/11 and “North American Union” conspiracy theories. Videos show men said to be Ohio Militia members engaged in small-unit, live-fire combat training. One video is titled “America’s Wake Up Call: Buy Guns.” A different video slideshow depicts assault weapons, mushroom clouds, George Bush, Satan, Osama bin Laden and lots of men in camouflage on maneuvers. It’s set to “Goofy’s Concern,” a song by Butthole Surfers, a psychedelic rock band from Austin, Texas, that includes these lyrics: “I don’t give a fuck about the FBI! I don’t give a fuck about the CIA! I don’t give a fuck about LSD! I don’t give a fuck about anything!”
That video concludes with a message to the Michigan Militia, one of the largest and oldest militia groups in the country: “Thanks for letting us train at Camp Stasa with you guys.”
It isn’t clear that the Ohio Militia is capable of bringing a busload of protesters to Washington, let alone a million or more. But Pale Horse’s call for a gathering of gun-toting militia forces in the nation’s capital brings to mind a similar infamous call to arms issued in 1994 by Patriot movement attorney, filmmaker and conspiracy theorist Linda Thompson. Thompson — who once told the editor of this blog about being personally and repeatedly followed by black helicopters, shot at by mysterious attackers, and having a beloved dog zapped by a secret government ray gun — was probably best known for producing the pseudo-documentary “Waco: The Big Lie,” which alleged a government mass murder in the 1993 standoff in Texas. Although the video was widely circulated, its claims were soon debunked.
Proclaiming herself “Acting Adjutant General” of the “Unorganized Militia of the United States,” Thompson announced that her armed march would take place on Sept. 19, 1994. She said her unorganized army would demand the repeal of the North American Free Trade Agreement and the Brady Bill, a gun control measure. U.S. senators and congressmen who refused to accede would be arrested, tried for treason and, if necessary, executed by firing squad or hanging, she said.
Thompson’s plan was almost universally denounced by right-wing groups, including most of the militias that were then appearing all over the country, who accused her of attempting to lead them on a suicide mission. Many in the movement suspected that Thompson was an agent provocateur working for the government.
Response to Pale Horse’s suggestion for a more “peaceful” display of force remains to be seen.
on April 24th, 2009 at 11:56 am
Wouldn’t such a “call to action” as this be Unfair Competition, as it were, to a new round of so-called “tea party” demonstrations from the “astroturf” (sham “grassroots”) crowd set for the July 4th Long Weekend?
on April 24th, 2009 at 5:58 pm
Peaceful march? How peaceful can an event be that advertises with a video that shows one of their members on the white House lawn firing a weapon. Patriots don’t join fake militias, they join/support the United States Armed Forces, the National Guard and State Defense Forces, the real military/militia.
on April 25th, 2009 at 8:32 am
I grew up around firearms. I don’t see the need to bring firearms to a political demonstration…..Maybe someone could enlighten me, but I think it’s sort of silly.
I imagine that there are those who look at a weapon & get pretty emotional but it’s cast in the same light as looking at a rake or axe & getting all teary-eyed.
I know that it’s mostly those people who are a bit attached to symbolism & know that some suburban folks have a reaction from looking at weapons; I suppose that what fuels gun-control as a mechanism to deal with crime….The powerful symbolism. I really believe it’s silly. It’s too wrapped up in Hollywood & Op-Ed political lexicon. Didn’t Rambo use a bow & arrow in his stupid movies? People can’t get that worked up over that however…..
The President said in Los Angles that he would NOT make gun-control a feature of his administration as he thought we HAD enough laws on the books to deal with most any firearm related issue. But he didn’t say he had enough laws to cope with the Black Helicopter issue!
on April 25th, 2009 at 8:22 pm
I wouldn’t be surprised if the U.S. Government calls up the National Guard and the D.C. PD in full SWAT gear fully armed to the teeth and the FBI is on high standby, rooting for potential domestic terrorists in the crowd et cetera and so on…
Seriously, this is just some Tin Foil Hater’s fantasy, even if they can pull off a 100 man march, well I’d be astonished.
on April 26th, 2009 at 4:48 pm
If that many trigger happy Barney Fifes come to Washington on the busiest day of the year, I can guarantee you, someone will spook these idiots with a firecracker. Then one of them will accidentally discharge his weapon, which in return, will start a chain reaction circular firing squad that could possibly wipe out half of these brain dead cowards.
The city should deny them a permit to march or to demonstrate. If they show up with firearms anyway, arrest them on the spot.
Anyone who spots one of these idiots should immediately point at them and loudly proclaim, “LOOK OUT, THAT GUY HAS A GUN!!! Then call the police on them.
on April 26th, 2009 at 5:03 pm
It is amazing how much things have changed. In our watered down culture, we are so afraid of free men and women that we cannot see how perverted our thinking has become. 100 or so years ago, people were always armed. In public, in private, all the time. To think anything else is to be ignorant of American history. The truth is, people have the RIGHT to bear arms. They have the right to defend themselves. The Sovereign American Citizen has the God given right to be armed. Period. I realize that the normal way of thinking is to disarm everyone so that only criminals have weapons, but that leaves people little more than sitting ducks. To march on Washington, with peaceful intentions (which are stated numerous times) is Constitutionally protected. You may not like it, but then again you could protest it simultaneously yourself (unarmed of course), then you might feel just like these patriots do when the government tells them they can’t have Arms.
on April 26th, 2009 at 6:01 pm
No one I know here in Ohio sees these guys as patriots or even militias, just gangs with guns. Here in Ohio most know the real militia is made up of government employees in the Ohio National Guard, the Ohio Military Reserve and Ohio Naval Militia, and not private groups just out for themselves. This issues has nothing to do with the right to bears arms, it has to do people who are not right in the head bearing arms. These guys see non-existent conspiracies around every corner and have to keep the hate going in order to justify not laughing at themselves while running around in the woods playing soldier.
on April 26th, 2009 at 8:51 pm
Arab terrorist supports American conservatives
http://www.tangle.com/view_vid.....ea1ceb73e4
At about 4:28 he explains which conservatives he supports and why.
He supports the white militias.
on April 27th, 2009 at 12:30 am
Okay, just wait until the mandate comes through saying you’re crazy because (enter reason here) and marginalized by government order. You didn’t listen to anything that i said earlier. The governments of the world are killing many more people than the PATRIOTS who are defending you’re rights by exercising theirs. Don’t you get it, if they take it away from law abiding citizens (and only your outlook on guns says otherwise) that leaves the guns in the hands of criminals and corrupt state or federal agencies. You do not understand history, EVERY TIME that a people are disarmed, they are later led to slaughter. Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, the list goes on and on. And to say that the only real “militias” are the National Guard or the Ohio military is just plain naive. Federal funding means conflict of interest and a problem with understanding where you take orders from. Just ask Jesse Ventura about his visit by the CIA immediately following his election as Governor of Minnesota. We weren’t supposed to have standing armies, but trained professional individuals, (doctors, lawyers, carpenters, etc) who were personally attached to that which they were protecting, not a constant military that threatens freedom more than foreign enemies. You don’t understand the military industrial complex. listen to President Eisenhower’s fair well address. He very simply states that the vast military that the United States had amassed was the greatest threat to liberty. HE WAS THE PRESIDENT and truly had the best interest of the American people at heart, not American empire. Give the power back to the people or watch as we are all returned to serfdom. And another thing, if dictators are allowed in the United States, whether they be Republican or Democrat (different wings on the same bird) of course the world will not choose freedom but despotism. We were supposed to be the standard that other countries held themselves too, yet we allow our own construct (the government) to eat out our substance. Why would we expect anyone else to want to be free if the place where liberty grew its deepest roots is now reduced to torture and secret arrest as the most communist of any state. Of course we now have enemies, we are hypocrites and even worse, we are now trying to use force of might and not gravity of ideas to change minds. “Operation Iraqi Liberation”, freedom from life right? If our government will kill innocent civilians in other countries, don’t be surprised when they knock on your door. You’re innocent too, right? Why should they spare your life, and permit you liberty if they would deny it of others. WAKE UP. Homeland security is for anyone who speaks out against tyranny. You haven’t recognized it yet, but this is a fascist state.
on April 27th, 2009 at 9:35 am
I asked the rhetorical question why it would be a good idea to bring guns to a damn demonstration & no one could give a coherent answer!
I have NO beef with individuals owning firearms. But I would like to know why someone thinks it’s productive to bring them to a public demonstration!
If I went to a “Town Hall” meeting about putting in a new traffic sign near the highway & people sitting in the meeting with me were all armed I would think they were armed for a reason.
Guns are both an object & a symbol. They get used by many people as an easy answer to complex problems. BOTH pro and anti “gun control” makes as much sense as Prohibition did: they are only THINGS, objects!
“Criminals shooting at each other….ban the guns.” or Ciminals shooting at me – give me MORE the guns.” The concepts are narrow & simplistic, but the firearm IS a potent symbol.
Now we have people thinking that people will not have a common reaction when they bring guns to a damn demonstration??? HEY …most people are going to react with FEAR!
That is STUPID if you’re trying to convince someone of your perspective on an issue!!!
I used to hear this question asked of some folks: “Would you rather be feared or respected?”
Typically, adolescents would want to be feared.
…..Never realizing that they would be marginalizing themselves & anything they represented by that very emotion. Having someone fear you when you need their co-operation, support, & loyalty is really childishly stupid.
There is a time for all things under Heaven.
on April 27th, 2009 at 2:37 pm
Defend ourselves against what?
Didn’t we elect the government?
Isn’t it ours?
If you’re frustrated, wait two years. Then vote again. Like we’re s’posed to do.
on April 28th, 2009 at 8:17 pm
Charlie says;
“Defend ourselves against what?”
Given the recent history involving terrorism in NYC, which was a prelude leading us into the “war on terror”, you can best assumed what they probably meant is that we must defend ourselves from what “doug” asaninely implied above(noticed I didn’t capitilize the “D” because he doesn’t, not in his own name).
Personally, I don’t know what the connection is between radical islam and wing-nut extreminism with white supremacist views. But I’ll tell you for sure, these loons are really in la-la land.
Don’t get me wrong because I am a gun owner myself(owning several firearms indeed), but I don’t need to display my weaponery to be macho and tough, such as in this case with one calling for this march to happen.
on April 29th, 2009 at 7:49 pm
Having your gun as you march on Washington (peacefully, which is restated by the “wing nut” who calls for the rally in the article) has nothing to do with being macho. It isn’t pride. It is a Constitutionally protected right. The right to keep and BEAR arms, and the right to peaceably assemble. What don’t you understand about those rights? What doesn’t Eric Holder understand? This is the same guy who banned all handguns in Washington D.C., even though crime skyrocketed there. When you disarm the people, only criminals have the weapons, government funded to the lowly street thug. These people have the right to say that they don’t want that to happen. Haven’t you noticed the pre-emption doctrine being used in U.S. foreign policy, these patriots are just taking a page from that book. If you have a million to ten million FOREIGN troops marching on Washington with guns, then you should be scared, the same would be said for U.S. Armed forces in any branch. But Washington D.C. belongs to your everyday Citizen. They have a right to address grievances that they believe the government is oppressing them with. Otherwise we’re paying these people’s salaries to be our parents, and eventually our kings, or slave masters. We own this country, not the executive, legislative, or judicial branches of our government, THE PEOPLE, of the United States. If we aren’t defending the Constitution with our lives, it is being stolen from us, that is a guarantee.
on April 30th, 2009 at 7:03 am
I think these people are Patriots. And I fully support their march on DC. My big difference with them is that we should USE the firearms, not just display them. Then we can clean up the country of all simpering, whimpering, faggot whiners like all of you. You, are afraid there WILL be such a march. As a stupid minority, you are so out of touch with the reality that there is going to be a massive revolt against all the Leftist Socialist crap you scumbags have put in place. Sleep well, fools. You might want to have your passports ready, because you’ll be shipped to a socialist country of your choice, one way.
on April 30th, 2009 at 10:02 am
I suspect that most demonstration and parade permits for July 4 here in DC are long since spoken for. And given that so many of these hate groups have threatened President Obama and non-whites in general, I also suspect that the DC and US Park Police would want to screen “Militia” demonstrators for illegal and concealed weapons.
on April 30th, 2009 at 10:41 am
Also not to forget that DC is largely controlled by the Democratic Party. Its basically Obama’s turf.
What these thick skulled nimrods failed to recognize, is the very fact that this entire exaggerated hyperbole about some armed anti-govenment extremists staging a *10* man march is only wishful thinking. One has to wonder who the real tards is. And “minority”, sorry snaggle-toothed but the Republiloons are the “minority”, try pulling your head out of the mudpile next time and watch the news.
As DCnative pointed out, there is the possibility that accomidations for July4th is full. In other words, there is no room for hatemongering. We will celebrate victory on the Fourth of July, victory for our Freedom and our [Civil] Rights, something that these extremists opposes vigorously with daily threats like a rabid radical islamists. It is a time to defend our Freedom and Democracy against these dangerous domestic terrorists.
And speaking of “faggots” as Centurion gloated imprudently, you’re probably referring to yourselves, given the ironic call for a 10 *man* march “clinging to their guns and religion”.
But sorry to disappoint you, I’m happily married to a beautiful wife.
on April 30th, 2009 at 11:17 am
These hate groups are being watched very carefully by this Government, which includes specific law/military agencies who are joined at the with Homeland Security. The citizens do not realize how much the Guard/Reserve/Active Component are inter-twined to react. 9-11/George Bushes fear tactics, open the door of cooperation between the services. One day soon, your (neighbor/guardsman) will be either knocking at your door, or knocking down your door, to obtain evidence of anti-one world order activites. Folks it isn’t years up the road, it is sooner than think. I know this, because I work for the military and have for more then 20 plus years in uniforms. I agree with most of what I know, and disagree with the rest of what the nation is turning into. It starts from the highest position down to the lowest ranked person. I am glad I’m retiring next year, because I cannot be part of this anymore…
on April 30th, 2009 at 5:11 pm
Never owned a gun myself. Hunting, though I understand it, never appealed to me. Perhaps if I decided to get into target shooting someday. I know alot of good gun owners, I know people who I’d be very anxious to be arround if they were armed. Nothing to do with politics, though few on the left are into lethal intent for political reasons.
A good gun owner is always concious of where it’s pointing. A bad one tends to pose with it. If the image requires it to be held in a certain way, to look heroic, then that’s the way a bad gun owner will hold it.
on April 30th, 2009 at 9:22 pm
Gee, maybe someone should point out to those militiamen seriously thinking about this; it is illegal – a felony – to possess a firearm in Washington DC.
But then again, maybe we should just let them all go, uninformed.
on May 7th, 2009 at 1:15 pm
An armed demonstration is murder waiting to happen.
It is no secret there are many sad and disappointed men who would welcome such an excuse to assault their fellow (preferably unarmed) Americans.
You have just heard in these letters the yearning in the heart of at least one of them.
They have years of hatred pent up inside them and they want an excuse to release it on some unsuspecting strangers. And then, of course, they will pretend they are simply patriotic Americans protecting the freedom of all mankind!
on May 8th, 2009 at 10:06 am
I want to speak for the so-called “Radical right” on this: This group (in Ohio) is in no way indicative of the majority of those who comprise the “Right-at-large”. This sub-group (of which there are many quite radical versions on the left as well, btw) would not be held in high regard by others in the larger group of agitated Americans I can assure you. It is a mistake for those on either side to lump such groups in with their larger collection of citizenry. I personally believe there is much more hate fostered and spewed from the “Radical Left” in this country. I do realize that is a broad and generalized view, and there are many exceptions. I respect this site’s opinion and simply wish to affirm my personal disapproval of the group in question. A march on Washington (regardless of which “side” you are on) may indeed be in order. To bear arms for such an occasion, however, leads me to agree with Kate’s point of view – even though I am a proud member of the group I assume the SPLC believes need watching. There is plenty of hate going around on both sides that needs to be watched carefully…or we will all fall prey to it.
on May 13th, 2009 at 5:52 pm
I am very sympathetic to the ohio millitia. But they have to watch out that there is no infiltration by governemnt agencies. The CIA will most likely find some satanists who will come and use their weapons against the public. Undoing the great message that must be spread. My advice would be to bring no ammo with you.
on May 14th, 2009 at 8:32 am
There are entirely too many men who react to government power by wanting to blow someone else to smithereens. Destroying freedom to save it is the stupidest idea possible.
Yes, we do not actually have anything like a democracy in America. We have definitely got something more like a powerful system of domination by autocratic government working in favor of the extremely wealthy. Think of that as a holdover from America’s horrible decades of slavery.
We still have a chance to get the government we want and need- one which considers the rights and needs of every citizen. But to exert our power as citizens, we need all of our laws to function democratically and rationally.
An armed insurrection would kill all of those possibilities for freedom for all in America. We would suddenly find ourselves being treated by the military in the same ways as the civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan and Pakistan.
It is a paradox that whenever thoughtless men see that government power can be used for the good of the people, they seem to rush forward intending to hog all of that power and glory for themselves only.
Of course, it is absurd to think anyone can simultaneously destroy and create justice!
on May 21st, 2009 at 10:34 am
This lot has nothing to do with the tea party movement nor do they share any members. Equating the two groups would be equivalent to equating the Sierra Club with the Weathermen.
on May 21st, 2009 at 5:45 pm
If only any of you could actually support your allegations of the ohio militia being a “hate group”. But you can’t, because it is not. They are Constitutionalists.
This is a classic case of demonization without evidence. Slander. Pure and simple. They are not a hate group. Prove they are. Show us.
It is the nimble minded such as yourselves that allow congress to run bills through like H.R. 1955, H.R. 2401, and H.R. 2159 etc. that strip the civil rights away from American citizens who have not been tried in a court of law, given due process, or offered the opportunity to retain legal representation. Just by being put on some arbitrary list by some bureaucrat, you lose your rights with no recourse. Do you think that is constitutional? Do you think that sounds right?
Study the Patriot Act, and the above mentioned bills, as well as the orders set forth for continuance of government and the Emergency Medical Act, then take out your bill of rights, and cross each one off. When you see you only have a 3rd amendment left, get back to me.
Once again, you should show your education and intellect by first not labeling people as hate groups when you can not prove it.
on May 21st, 2009 at 6:27 pm
ryan the non-Aryan is correct. We are just a bunch of ” Tin Foil Haters ” here in Ohio and Michigan, Idaho, Montana etc…and we won’t show up at any pre-planned public protest in washington.We are just a bunch of goofy guys in camouflage reliving our military days. We are essentially a bunch of Fat drunken red-necks, playing Army in the boondocks. Go back to global warming and registering illegal aliens to vote. We pose no threat to anyone ! Forget about us, ignore us, eventually we will just go away
on May 22nd, 2009 at 8:43 am
Easy to see this fake “Ohio Militia”, which is not a real militia and does not represent Ohio as part of the real militia, is a hate group. I live in Ohio and have met them and heard the hateful words come out of their mouth. Just go on Youtube and listen to the videos they have put online and you can see them trying to work themselves up to justify finally getting to shooting some of their fellow citizens. They would love to start a civil war in America just so they can use their guns. The sad part is these guys get so deluded that they lose the ability to see how they are the very enemy to society that they want to claim others to be. Conspiracies and rumors are the order of the day for them. Try and take about the Constitution with them and you only get their propaganda, because they never really read the Constitution. Everytime someone does something they do not like, they cry about their constitutionla rights being violated, showing its really about people guns wanting more just for themselves, rather than the country as a whole.
on May 22nd, 2009 at 8:50 am
Has everyone forgotten the mauling of journalists at both recent political conventions? These reporters were armed only with cameras and recorders!
The right wing is likely waiting for a public demonstration to prove that the rest of us should be locked up in their very profitable private prisons that the public must support with their tax dollars. I believe that is the actual reason for the flap over closing Guantanamo.
People who think a gun is proof of power is just delusional. It does prove that the demonstrator is waiting for a chance to blow someone away and decrease his frustration at being ignored by our so-called representatives!
Start scolding your state representatives instead and make their lives miserable until they realize they are your representatives!
on June 4th, 2009 at 2:05 pm
I will be going to this march and it is going to be a peaceful demonstration we are just showing them that if they (the government) does not change or pushes anymore unconstitutional laws we will fight to defend it at all cost. The time has come to put the constitution back in service and not take the crap and unconstitutional laws they are passing.
For a people who are free, and who mean to remain so, a well-organized and armed militia is their best security.
Thomas Jefferson
on June 4th, 2009 at 3:53 pm
James does not sound too peaceful. Taking guns to a place guns are not allowed is not peaceful. Showing a video with guns firing on the White House lawn to advertise the event does not sound peaceful. No sane person would claim your weird private gangs following a masked idiot with a voice changer to D.C., as well-organized and armed militias. The well-organized and armed militia, known as the National Guard and the State Defense Forces, is guarding the Constitution just fine and we don’t need you militia pretenders.
on June 4th, 2009 at 3:56 pm
You know the best way to confuse these private gang “fake” militias?
Actually read them the Constitution.
on June 5th, 2009 at 9:07 am
I know the constitution better than all of you tyranny supporting assholes. And the revolution will happen its just a matter of time. No it wont be at washington, then again it could start there. And why dont you all do some research. The militias are not fake and it is stated in the Constitution that a well-organized militia being necessary to protect each free state and the national guard does not count because congress passed a law where the state can be bypassed and congress can call them up, and they are paid and part of the millitary. The militia now is the same as it was back during the first revolution citizens who will fight in order to protect and defend the Constitution.
on June 5th, 2009 at 12:14 pm
No, the militias (National Guard/State Defense Forces) are not fake. It is these private gangs running around calling themselves militias, all of which are poorly organized and unregulated that are putting us into danger. The nuts in these gangs falsely calling themselves militia are trying to cause a revolution where none is needed because they want to shoot people and play soldier. Just because a criminal gang puts on a uniform does make them a militia. These groups are just trying to start a revolution because they have no respect for the Constitution and don’t like the government asking them to obey the law.
on June 5th, 2009 at 9:38 pm
Ok your right you blind sheep read the constitution then get back with me, It clearly states the militia should be made up of citizens the national guard are employes they are paid a real militia is not paid. There fore the real militia are those so called right wing extremist you call nuts the only ones who will step up and defend your rights even if you wont do it yourself. And when FEMA and the foreign troops knock your door in and haul you to the camps dont cry to us because we will be the only ones prepared. Look at how the government owned media keeps you in fear and so I leave with yet another quote…
When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
Thomas Jefferson
on June 8th, 2009 at 8:37 am
So James, you are saying when join the National Guard you become a paid employee and lose your citizenship and cannot be militia? State Defense Forces are unpaid militia, yet you ignore mentioning them. Where in the Consititution does it meantion being paid as militia criteria? Guess you made that up. You nuts have been crying that FEMA and foriegn troops knocks on doors and hauls out poeple to disappear in secrect camps, yet in over 20 years of this lying rumor they haven’t come for you or anyone else. If FEMA was doing such as thing, why are you still here James? Jefferson was right, when people fear their government there is tyranny and if you look in the mirror you will see that you create that fear in you own imagination, as you are nuts with guns who believe every anti-governemnt rumor that the buddy next to you makes up. Jefferson never imagined that the tyranny would come from un-regulated nuts pretending to be the militia, trying to influence the government for a few, just for the sake of getting to play soldier.
on June 8th, 2009 at 10:25 am
I think we should take a poll to find out how many Americans would believe that a “March” of men carrying weapons (that are made to kill humans) could possibly be called peaceful. Of course everyone would be alarmed and think the government was being overtaken. They might even think the marchers were professional mobsters.
Would these weapons be loaded, and how could anyone be assured they would be used peacefully, except the extremely fearful marchers?
The whole idea sounds like an attempt to gain power over their fellow citizens. Nobody would feel that they were being “protected” by such a mob.
on June 10th, 2009 at 6:52 pm
Its there right to carry those guns anywere they please and people all of you wake the hell up history repeats it self time and time once more read your history books take a close look at NAZI Germany and what those poor people went through or look into the Soviet union let me tell you folks a land without guns is a pretty bleak place to be.
on June 10th, 2009 at 9:06 pm
No, it is not their right to carry guns anywhere. We have laws to keep people safe in places from those who would bring guns into situations where guns could only be the fuse to more violence.
on June 15th, 2009 at 11:52 am
Thank you Les someone who is not a sheep and sees what is happening. And yes the second amendment permits us to have weapons and the second amendment was mainly instated so that we can fight a Tyrannical government if it gets out of hand. To the rest of you do some research and get your heads out of your asses.
on June 15th, 2009 at 1:00 pm
I think would-be marchers should read some American History and consider the chain of events that would be set in place by a large and armed march on Washington.
Realize too, that just because someone joins your group doesn’t mean they are peaceful in any way. You won’t even be able to identify or protect yourself from your own fellow marchers.
And last, but not least, once Homeland Security gets involved, the entire affair will be out of the hands of local police forces and into the purview of federal law enforcement, namely the FBI, CIA and the newest gizmo, Homeland Security.
Talk about three strikes!
on June 15th, 2009 at 3:58 pm
The truth is that we don’t have a tyrannical government out of hand. We have an everyday government made up of imperfect people, who somethings make mistakes. We still have free elections. We still have free speach that even allows idiots like James to go on the Interent and rave. The problem is those people in the private “fake” militia gangs who want to be in a state of war with the government 24/7, simply because they like playing the game of waving guns and thinking of themselves as soliders. Guys like James don’t to make America better, they just want to play war and act like a victim. James get you head out of the sand, get some clean air, get away from the misguided groups, start supposting America and you will see what the majority of us see clearly. America works!
on June 19th, 2009 at 8:51 pm
okay guys. the only thing different from any other peaceful deminstration is that they will be carrying guns. SO WHAT IS THE BIG FUCKING DEAL? lets hear some quotes from our FOUNDING FATHERS.
“The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.”
Thomas Jefferson“
Posterity, you will never know how much it cost the present generation to preserve your freedom. I hope you will make good use of it. If you do not, I shall repent in Heaven that I ever took half the pains to preserve it” ~John Adams.
i love the way you say that these guys will get spooked by a firecracker, these guys are very highly trained and confident in there own abilities and the abilities of there team. our governent is getting out of control. have you heard obama’s recent speech? he says that “supposed terrorists” are going to be held for CRIMES THEY MAY COMMIT, NOT CRIMES THAT THEY HAVE ALREADY DONE!!! thats not fucking right so what the fuck is the big deal? they want to carry guns? GOOD, LET EM. cops carry guns, fbi, cia, they all carry guns, if they are allowed, then so are we.
on June 21st, 2009 at 12:11 pm
Real patriots take up guns as a last resort after having tried to particpate in government and make a change in a government bent on extiguishing all freedom, a situation not felt for over 200 years.
Private gangs pretending to be militias take up guns immediately because they don’t want peace, but a chance to play soldier, and end up raping the Consitution as they try and twist it to support their anti-government attitudes that will be there no matter what the government does, good or bad.
Maybe all the secrect Al Quaeda cells in the United States should take up guns and delcare themselves to be militias. Then they could claim a Constituional basis for their anti-government attacks on the United States. Then the private “fake” militias could have an ally.
As it stands now the most of the population of the United States, most voters, the US government, state governments, local governments, the politicians, the Armed Forces, the National Guard, State Defense Forces, the CIA, the FBI, etc. do not want private gangs calling falsely calling themselves militias in our country trying to interfere with our liberty.
on June 21st, 2009 at 7:53 pm
Just for a change, would one of the gun lovers describe exactly what “freedoms” he believes the “government” does not honor?
I am getting the distinct impression that some think they should have the right to threaten whomever they please, simply to show everyone who is the boss.
That sort of a “right” is not mentioned in our US Constitution.
All this hysteria that government might take away the right to buy and own a gun is a deliberately manufactured illusion. Weapons in America are definitely not in short supply or difficult to pick up, especially for common burglars who would likely know where the gun owners’ homes are.
Be careful what you wish for. You might actually get it!
on June 23rd, 2009 at 11:58 am
This is ridiculous. They are not planning this march with intentions of “playing soldier” or shooting up the capitol. It. Is. To. Prove. A. Point. We have, or at least we HAD, the right to be armed. We should not need a reason! We should not need to offer explanations! The government should not fear it’s citizens being armed. The only explanation for that is the fact that they know they are in the wrong and they are scared of the consequences. Though they shouldn’t be, because Americans have become so dumbed down by the media that they don’t even know which way is up anymore. This new America is against everything, EVERYTHING that our founding fathers worked for.
on June 23rd, 2009 at 12:43 pm
.Ridiculous? Alex, the facts say different. If you are planning to shoot up the capitol, why then does the video for the event show someone on the White House lawn firing a weapon? Have HAD the right to be armed? If you don’t have the right to be armed and need to go to D.C. to protest, then how come you have guns to take if you have lost that right? The government should not fear it’s citizens being armed? That’s stupid. The government should always fear segments of the population becoming armed and using those weapons to hurt and harm law abiding members of the community for the sake of general safety. Lets put Alex in charge of disrbuting guns in prisons, to criminal gangs, the mob, drug dealers, etc. since he feels all citizens should have guns. Wake up and realize that we live in a country were guns ownership needs to be balanced with keeping the citizens safe, and not centered around making sure those paranoid people who join fake militias have all the guns they need. Stop being part of the problem Alex, and stop claiming a noble purpose when it comes down to the fact you would hate anything the government would do good or bad, that didn’t center around keeping a gun in your hands so you can play anti-government soldier. The founding father never had any plans to grant you a right to have a gun in your hands that would superceed the general publics right to the legal pursuit of life, liberty and happiness.
on June 23rd, 2009 at 3:10 pm
So, Alex, if you are concerned about losing the right to carry loaded weapons around with you, how do you feel about the loss of rights under the Patriot Act?
on June 25th, 2009 at 2:25 am
ok this guy will get guns ban permanatly and it will start the 2012. If he does do this we will be in lockdown mode
on June 25th, 2009 at 8:31 am
Did the parade of gun owners get a permit, would the guns be loaded? Do they have any contingency plans to deal with a riot or thugs who might want a “free” gun?
How would they deal with the citizens of the city who might feel threatened by a potential riot?
I bet the people who might march didn’t even think of providing their own safety plans. They are only little boys acting out in public.
on July 5th, 2009 at 8:36 am
Well, July 4th is over, so how many of you who like to go running through the woods playing soldier and pretending to be a militia went to Washington? Did you stay home showing us that with you it is just about guns and uniforms and not about helping the country? That all the talk about the Constitution is just a cover to get what you want at the expense of the rest of the citizens of the United States. I guess that if the government really thought the fake militia members would show up, the real militia the National Guard and State Defense Forces would have been call out to protect Washington and the American way of life.
on July 5th, 2009 at 9:17 am
Armed March on Washington. July 4th is past. No march could be organized. A well-regulated Militia should have been able to get a simple march together. What happened? Could it be that these militia groups are not well-regulated and are not militas? Could it be that they are just a bunch of unregulated private gangs that don’t operate so well because they only care about themselves, their guns and playing soldier?
on August 12th, 2009 at 3:18 am
Where’s the “hate”? I don’t see hate in the Pale Horse – I see FEAR. The only hatred I see in this is hatred of militia groups. If we want to watch for HATE – let’s watch the SPLC.
on August 12th, 2009 at 7:40 am
Richard, you are not fooling anybody. It is easy to see that you are angry at SPLC because they write about and punish racist and sexist violence against people who are targeted just because they are easy victims. SPLC does this in a peaceful way by taking the perps to court for a trial by their peers.
By taking those violent groups to court, they expose the myth of racial supremacy for the lie it really is.
on August 12th, 2009 at 10:37 am
Kate,
Thanks for writing. I deplore racism and sexism. I was mainly writing about Pale Horse and his YouTube video, which was not racist or sexist, but full of fear of all the potential (in his mind) disasters that could potentially befall our society. His response is an armed militia. Mine would be political. But it seemed that SPLC was posturing this guys in the “hate” groups, when was clear in the video that he didn’t hate, but was simply overly fearful.
on August 12th, 2009 at 7:02 pm
Pale Horse and the Ohio “fake” Militia are a hate group. These people hate the federal and state governments, and anyone else that comes along and asks that they participate in main stream society in a legal and productive manner. No matter what acts the government undertakes, good or bad, members of the government are hated as enemies of liberty by these groups. It is the very hate of government that fuels the false anger that keeps them going and lets them justify in their own mind running around in military uniforms with guns pretending to militia units. The leaders of these fake militias groups must even make up the outlandish rumors you hear of black helicopter, foreign troops in the US and concentration camps to keep the hate going and member following them. If these people didn’t have hate, they might actually look in the mirror and see how pathetic and sad they really are and how they have hurt the United States..
on August 12th, 2009 at 10:07 pm
Michael writes: “These people hate the federal and state governments,…”
I take it they don’t like a greatly expanded federal government role in our society that may usurp individual liberties. Hey, so does the Republican Party — so is teh Republican Party a “hate group”?
Michael writes:
“…It is the very hate of government that fuels the false anger that keeps them going…”
I would say they FEAR the federal government, which fuels their actions to protect themselves. This is wasted energy to be sure, because the federal government could easily wipe them out. They need to use the political system to effect changes they desire.
Michael writes:
” and lets them justify in their own mind running around in military uniforms with guns pretending to militia units.”
I agree.
Michael writes:
“…pathetic and sad…”
Please elevate the discourse. Thank you.
Michael writes:
“…. they have hurt the United States..”
How have they hurt the USA?
Thanks for reading.
Richard
on August 13th, 2009 at 9:27 am
In case there is any doubt, a number of “teabaggers” evidently resent being taxed by the government for any reason. They even try to get out of paying for schools by various means, because they do not like to send their children to school with people they consider inferior or dangerous.
It is evident that they have an innate sense of superiority, believing their labor is of more value than that of anyone else. Depending on how severe their social disease is, they might even like the Nazi “Superman” theory.
on August 13th, 2009 at 6:33 pm
Kate,
Was your post listed in the correct subject are, or are you saying the teabaggers are the same people as the militia group we’ve been talking about? I don’t thing they are the same people. But I would be interested in reading their info where you it says that they consider public school children inferior or dangerous. Where can I find that?
Richard
on August 14th, 2009 at 9:20 am
Richard
Perhaps you are too young to have been through the last half of the 20th century in the USA, when even decorated and respected military veterans of color were openly treated as though they had no right to apply for employment because they were automatically considered either criminal or dangerous.
This argument about “colored” children having the nerve to want to go to the same schools as their paler cousins has been raging openly for as long as I can remember. In fact, we needed to call out the troops to put down the riot that resulted in threatening crowds and murder in a southern state.
You must be leading a very sheltered life if you have not personally been told, and often, that certain people are ruining the nation by their presence here. Conservative politicians are actually burnishing those hatreds now and expecting to be swept into office as a reward for their demonstrated “conservatism.”
If you are listening to their accusations now against the newly-elected president, you will hear their own prejudices loud and clear. What they accuse “liberals” of wanting to do with the aged and infirm is exactly what private insurances have been actually desiring to do, in order to save money on the health care of persons they consider expendable.
I remember the arguments of the Republican Party in the 1960s, about how terrible it would be to cover old people’s hospital expenses because it would bankrupt the nation. This new fearmongering contains the same arguments, dragged out of their fear closets and burnished for another run at political power.
I hope you don’t think these political ideals are something new and exotic because they are definitely part of everyday experience here in southwestern states.
on August 14th, 2009 at 1:36 pm
Kate wrote:
…certain people are ruining the nation by their presence here. Conservative politicians are actually burnishing those hatreds now and expecting to be swept into office as a reward for their demonstrated “conservatism.”
Don’t you mean SOME conservative politicians? And if so, who are they? And can you quote one who has made a racist comment to promote conservatism? If you mean ALL conservative politicians, then we can stop the dialog due to bias.
Kate wrote:
…I remember the arguments of the Republican Party in the 1960s, …
If you want to go back in time, I could quote Colorado governor Lamb, who, more than anyone, made very overt and scary comments about the elderly. But rather than going back fifty years, we’re talking about today. You seem to want to talk about racism, but I started this dialog about militia groups. Can you quote and direct me to any Ohio Militia information that is racist or shows hatred (i.e., desire for evil to befall the federal government)?
Richard
on August 15th, 2009 at 8:42 pm
Militia groups are people who want to carry guns so they can always have the upper hand in any social situation. Sometimes they want the guns to be concealed. (the better to sneak up on you, my dear.)
Do you believe that this desire to carry a loaded gun is reasonable under ordinary circumstances? Wouldn’t you call it reasonable for unarmed persons to suspect armed strangers of criminal intentions when almost everyone else has no protection from them and their professed fears about “terrorists?”
Recently there was actually a call for making it legal to carry concealed guns in National Parks. Wouldn’t that be a great idea when so much drinking and carousing is already going on among men in such wilderness areas, especially while park rangers are so few and unarmed.
Sorry, I do not believe for one minute that there aren’t
very ulterior motives involved among people who are fascinated by the idea of threatening to blow someone away.
on August 17th, 2009 at 12:17 pm
Groups like the Ohio Militia & Michigan Militia are not the neo nazi racist people as portrayed by left wing media sources.
They simply want a government free of intrusion on their lives and they train and buy weapons to protect themselves and their families.
Blacks, whites, asians, latinos and other races make up the armed people of the US and militias.
Militias are different than in the 90′s. We are organized and ready to defend our freedom.
We do not advocate violence nor condone hate speech. We are not terrorists and are not nazis.
However, if our way of life and America is threatened, we will respond as necessary.
on August 17th, 2009 at 3:23 pm
Zane Jackson said, “However, if our way of life and America is threatened, we will respond as necessary.”
Sounds like a terrorist to me.
on August 17th, 2009 at 3:56 pm
Kate writes:
“Militia groups are people who want to carry guns so they can always have the upper hand in any social situation.”
Good grief — “social situations”????? Kate, you are imputing motives without anything to back it up. In what social situatioins do they want to carry guns? What are they actually saying?
Kate writes:
“Do you believe that this desire to carry a loaded gun is reasonable under ordinary circumstances?”
No I don’t and apparently, neither do the militias. As I read their info, they train themselves in firearms for extreme circumstances, not ordinary curcumstances. Where are you getting this? Please quote their information.
Kate writes:
“Recently there was actually a call for making it legal to carry concealed guns in National Parks. Wouldn’t that be a great idea when so much drinking and carousing is already going on among men in such wilderness areas, especially while park rangers are so few and unarmed.”
Men???? I don’t think the drinking and carousing is limited to men. I suppose carrying concealed weapons would cause much less stir among the tourists than if they were not concealed.
Kate writes:
“I do not believe for one minute that there aren’t
very ulterior motives”
Imputing motives is something people ought not do in a debate. I’ve asked you before and in this post to provide quotations from militia web cites to back up your comments. All I’ve been getting is your beliefs without support and your imputed motives. Please provide quotes of their information to back up what you’re saying so I can read them for context. If you don;t have anything definitive, why should I continue to attempt to debate with you?
on August 17th, 2009 at 4:12 pm
Zane Jackson
What freedom do you feel is threatened by our state and national weapons laws? Perhaps you feel competent to make your own laws?
on August 17th, 2009 at 4:48 pm
Richard, were we debating? That is news to me.
What I saw was that you expressed your opinion and then I responded by expressing mine. Then you scolded me in another post.
That is not debate. If you can present some proof that challenging the “concealed carry” laws by parading with weapons is a safe, effective and legal way to approach responsible citizenship, I might be a little more lenient.
on August 17th, 2009 at 5:11 pm
Michael said,
on August 17th, 2009 at 3:23 pm
Zane Jackson said, “However, if our way of life and America is threatened, we will respond as necessary.”
Sounds like a terrorist to me.
Hmmmm, so Michael, if your way of life and America itself is threatened, what would be YOUR response? None? How apathetic! Or if you did respond, would you choose a response that is unnecessary? How about: …”we would respond as appropriate.” Would you be any happier with that? Maybe only if Michael could say what would be appropriate. It seems some people can read terrorist threats into the most innocuous statements.
on August 17th, 2009 at 7:44 pm
Yes, I can say what is appropriate. What is appropriate is what is that which is legal under the laws of America that have been placed before use by our elected representatives, as part of a system that fixes itself with each election if it goes a little astray. I know we have the best government on the planet and that no government can ever be perfect, so I don’t pick up a gun and start waving it around stating that if people go against my seperate from the mainstream way of life I have choosen, that I will respond as necessary against them with force. I don’t go around stating that I have the freedom to be free of government, defining anything the government does as intrusion. Without government there is only caos and that is what these groups want. This started with the Ohio “fake” militia showing a video with guns firing on the White House lawn and that is clearly terrorism meant to frighten the government into following the message of a few.
on August 17th, 2009 at 10:17 pm
Kate writes:
“If you can present some proof that challenging the “concealed carry” laws by parading with weapons is a safe, effective and legal way to approach responsible citizenship, I might be a little more lenient.”
I don’t happen to agree that parading with weapons is a responsible way to challenge concealed carry laws. The best way is to use the existing university studies showing that concealed carry laws reduce violent crimes in state after state that has adopted them.
on August 23rd, 2009 at 12:12 am
Michael you’ve thrown out a bunch of cute cliques and half-truths. The purpose of the unorganized is to be a counter balance to the organized militia or state national guard. The unorganized militia cannot be conscripted to fight federal wars without a military draft. This keeps the federal government from depleting the fighting capabilites of any given state so that it may defend itself in times of threats.
The National Guard is no longer soley governed by the state, rather it is controlled primarily by the federal government. The feds have no control over the unorganized militias and they hate.
The Ohio Militia is legal and how can that be? It is legally protected under the Ohio and federal constitution. So ther you have it.
Is Pale Horse a nut case? Is he a racist? Does spew hatred? I’ve watched his YouTube presentation and the anwsers to the above are “no.” Is he a bit different? I would say “yes” to that.
Michael I hated to be the one to tell you, but “The Conspiracy is no longer theory.
Here’s one for you Micky. HR2099 uses the power of the Treasury to pass the following gun control laws without congress voting on the new laws. Gun owners will have to report on their 2009 tax return all firearms that they own and pay a $50 tax on each firearm. Sounds like tyranny to me Micky.
Me thinks you’re a shill or just plain silly. Your arguments are structured well, but no banana my friend.
As far as marching on D/C. with firearms, I see that as being a bit risky, but if all 10 or 1,000,000 of them show they ahd better prepare for the worst and hope for the best.
on August 23rd, 2009 at 1:23 pm
Justin, you are competely wrong. The unroganized militia is no counter balance for the militia or state national guard. The National Guard and the State Defense Forces are the militia. Period. The unorganized consists of those individuals who can be drafted. When private groups organize claim to be organizing as the unorgainzed militia, which is by definition something that government is not allowing to organize, you only have criminal gangs confusing people with the real title “unorganized militia” and the illegal act, of forming into groups pretending to ne militias.The National Guard, the State Defense Force, law enforcement and the Armed Force is the guarantee of freedom from these private fake militia gangs that want our society to be more like the old west with people able to gun those they don’t like down on the street, and the evil the Bible calls, doing what was “right in their own eyes”.We have the most free country on the earth and largest collection of nuts who thrive on rumors and lies. The very fact that the private militias are arround and not all locked up or exterminated is proof that that they are nuts and our government is extremely tolerant. Every year they say the government is coming for all them, yet the decades pass. As someone in the military I don’t want to put you nuts in a concetration camp, I just want you to shut up with the rumors, lies and threats. Start helping the country and quit calling it patriotism, when you are just for yourself and a few buddies.
on August 23rd, 2009 at 1:30 pm
You lot will be surprised when you get shipped off to your re-education camps. As far I can tell some of you have already taken the voluntary road to brainwashing.
Keeping eating what the government tells you and you’ll be in blissful ignorance until they flip the switch on your life support machines.
Good luck all.
on August 24th, 2009 at 9:40 am
KMilitary
All this talk about government conspiracies is silly, especially when we heard nothing from these gun lovers when GWBush passed the so-called Patriot Act, so lawmakers could ignore the basic right of Habeas Corpus and imprison people with no charges and no evidence. Now we already have a privately-owned military called Blackwater. Does that make you feel safer?
What militia groups are promoting is an “every man for himself” philosophy. Sure, gang members will love stealing those lovely and already registered weapons from their homes and even out of their pockets.
What militias are recommending is that they be armed in an unarmed population, and everyone else would be at their mercy. I do hope that in the event that does happen, there will be no access for gun carriers to alcoholic beverages or any psychoactive drugs.
But I am not holding my breath.
on September 27th, 2009 at 9:32 pm
Have you not had the thought, of where all people’s ancestry came from? not of america, from,italy, england, poland, ireland, africa, china, russia,germany, where ever, even columbus, who claims to have discovered the america’s, was a immigrant,he came from england,so just who is not an immigrant., the indians, that’s who, columbus, and the colonist’s say they first had to fight,try to understand, and gain their trust, only we as a people lied to even them,so how does any one person or people, claim any right to this land or it’s people?and if a person is so proud to be of any group, clan,or a gang, why hide behind a bandana, scarf, or a mask, or sheets, show thy self proudly. or be ashamed of what is being claimed.as of being of indian ancestry, i am proud to even being alive.let alone trying to take what is not rightfully mine.so think !!!before actions take over for the wrong reason.as there is no real right or wrong in any hate filled, wrong information,not enough information,misgiving, told a bunch of lies,not of the whole truth of any situation,problem,disagreement,or opinon. just thought a body should think it over[]
on September 28th, 2009 at 7:05 am
Now let’s face the facts :
1. the militia got a bad name buy a hand full of idiots taken advantage of by Jerry springer tying them in with white supremest groups on his stupid show (which by the way is more detrimental to our culture than any militia action to date)back in the 80′s and for some reason people are being indoctrinated with this idea but many malitia members are Black , Hispanic, Asian , It is kind off like me taking all the Rap music about guns and violence and blaming it on black people when that stuff is in most any form of music now days in one form or another if you would like to take it out of context.
2. The rite to bear arms is for every person (individual ) and if you choose to not carry that is your choice but the brady bill and all the other great ideas our wonderful government has come up with has not done one %1 difference in society . the government keeps growing taking more control and rites away from the people and things steadily are getting worse . If you think taking the rites away will make you safer you really need to wake up
because your not. ( Take guns from the good citizens so the bad people don’t have them hmhmmhmh that is real logic } If we all carried Guns we would be much nicer in traffic I guarantee you lol well I think it was Mr. colt who said God Made Man But Colt Made Man Equal or something like that .) I only wish people in Washington and here were as concerned about the people dealing drugs killing our kids being released from prison repeatedly or the fact that we are being attacked from within by socialist ideals that have never work sense the beginning but for some reason they think there brand will work, Definition of insanity = keep doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result . the only truly Free country there has ever been is beeing screwed up by people who point there finger and call it Hate Because It does Not line up with there Marxist roots of the great society!
3. Who shall we appoint to decide who has writes and who does not another Zarr not confirmed by the people and shall we praise another far left radical whom bombed police stations and give him a position as a professor at a state funded school but deny the poor felon drug dealer off the street a job there because if would be a sucurity risk lol this idea of regulating everything according to statistic and left wing ideology is a bad joke that will only use your self ambition to promote your agendas only ,your ideas only will leave you with no rite to do ether
(more later .)
on September 30th, 2009 at 11:52 pm
I can remember when Americans were not afraid to be kind and polite. In fact, most of them still are and would not dream of calling anyone pejorative names.
However, some loud and boisterous types seem to feel very good about telling lies about the rest of us. I think this phenomenon has existed in some form since Richard Nixon and his enemies list were being showcased. Ronald Reagan went even further with his ideas of superiority for the Republican party of NO.
Our present dire economic circumstances didn’t happen overnight. It took years of lying and stealing from the public to get our nation to its present point of collapse.
on October 22nd, 2009 at 4:16 am
There comes a time when the common man mist throw off the chains of oppression.The second amendment is meant as a means to throw off oppression and regain the control of the Federal Government gone awry. “Give me liberty of give me death” America, freedom, hope, light, security above all else. This is our country, our liberty, our posterity at all costs. “Give me Liberty or give me Death” “naught without labor” naught without sacrifice, blood let, and faith in one God binding all people to one true hope. “Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness”. Freedom at all costs, ALL COSTS…
on October 22nd, 2009 at 10:23 am
Well said, Stateman. Thanks for not getting into the hate/anti-hate rhetoric. My personal thought is that many private militias are organized out of fear. Fear that the federal government, because it can control the National Guard, it could also disarm the National Guard. Therefore they believe there needs to be an alternative. But a small band of organized men probably could do little against our nation’s army. I think what Hamilton was writing about in the federalist papers was that each state’s militia would greatly outnumber the federal army, thus providing protection against tyranny. To carry that out, we’d have to adopt something like Switzerland, where almost every adult male is legally required to possess a gun. By the way, they don’t have a problem with gun violence there, but they do have strong “handgun” controls.
on October 22nd, 2009 at 1:59 pm
Has anyone in favor of the right to use weapons got an actual plan for what to do in case he is challenged by the local gendarmes in any American city?
I would like to hear that conversation.
It seems to me that people who admire the Second amendment have a total lack of regard for each and every other amendment in our US Constitution.
on October 25th, 2009 at 8:31 pm
Kate, I’m sorry you do not admire a part of our Constitution. I would respectfully request that you not stereotype all people who support the 2nd Amendment as having a “total lack of regard for each and every other amendment….” Just read all those other great amendments – I love ‘em.
To answer your question, if a local policeman demanded MY weapon I would hand it over immediately, because I respect the legitimately appointed law enforcement authorities. Then I would ask him to explain the basis for his demand. If I thought his demand was unconstitutional, I would consult an attorney and possibly sue to get it back. I’m sure our court system respects the Constitution even though some other people may not. I certainly would not use violence when it isn’t unnecessary.
on October 26th, 2009 at 3:59 pm
Ok Richard, tell me how you feel about the Patriot Act that was passed by the Bush Administrations.
That one effectively has nullified our right not to be arrested and held in prisons without any cause or any charges being filed, without a lawyer, etc. That law is still in effect.
Perhaps you can tell me how owning a gun could protect any of us from such an unconstitutional development as that law.
on October 26th, 2009 at 6:55 pm
Kate, you’ve changed the subject. I believe militia members generally like our Constitution. You said they didn’t. My own answer disproved your assertion.
On your new question, if the Patriot Act is unconstitutional, as some federal courts have determined, then let the courts overturn that Act. They already have in some cases. There is no need to use guns, with a functioning legal system.
Most militia members are NOT “itchin’ for a fight,” as you seem to see them. They simply want to be prepared in a “worst case” situation, where the federal government “goes awry” and takes away our constitutional rights by force of the federal army in defiance of the courts. Militias operate out of fear of losing their liberty, not out of any desire to hurt anyone.
on October 27th, 2009 at 12:39 pm
I believe this thread started with a call for an armed march on Washington by persons who are definitely not in any kind of “militia,” but are acting without any common direction. How would that action conform to the language of the Constitution?
It sounds like a riot waiting to happen.
on October 31st, 2009 at 1:22 pm
conspiracy-minded? lol, it’s sounds more like you are the communist then the the patriots are “conspiracy-minded”
on November 1st, 2009 at 4:39 pm
require- this?
What in particular makes you think I am a “communist?” Would that make anyone who believes in appropriate law and order also a communist?
Having an armed and organized militia does not mean that everyone else who carries a loaded gun is automatically a safe and sane patriot. All of this worry about being disarmed by government in America is just a rumor started by local and states’-rights terrorist groups who want to set themselves up as lawmen with their own separate self-made authority.
on November 2nd, 2009 at 10:48 am
Kate, I believe the worry abut being disarmed by government started with the founding of our country. Please read the Federalist Papers to get proper background. Our founding fathers were not terrorist groups, they were fearful of tyranny of the government. The constitution provides a safeguard against that tyranny.
on November 3rd, 2009 at 9:14 am
Richard
Are you truly satisfied that merely possessing weapons will be enough to keep our nation secure and functioning to protect the rights of civilians?
I am sorry, but I have not seen this level of hysterical accusation and hatred in public since the 1960s, when decent people were trying to get the Civil Rights Act passed.
We seem to be going backward in regard to protection of citizens’ rights.
on November 3rd, 2009 at 6:56 pm
read the Constitution,
the people you call “states’-rights terrorist groups”
have a right to abolish a tyrannical government , when the government becomes such,
and obviously, it has…
beside, there is no such thing as domestic terrorist groups,
it’s just a communist you, fearing what is coming your way, trying to turn people that don’t know , against Americans who will stand up and defend the Constitution , against domestic enemies .. aka YOU
on November 4th, 2009 at 12:31 pm
Kate,
I am not of the same mind as “require- this?.” So don’t mix us up, please.
“Merely possessing weapons?” No, that is not enough to keep us safe from tyranny. I think the citizenry needs them in sufficient abundance and hopefully including, at least, semi-automatic rifles. Training would also help, which private militias can provide. All this would just bring us up to the level that Switzerland already has. Did you know that Hitler elected not to invade Switzerland, because almost every citizen was armed? That’s the whole point of an armed citizenry, to deter tyranny.
If you go back and read all my posts, I don’t think you will see any “hysterical accusation and hatred.” I do, however, see hysterical accusation and hatred coming from individuals who automatically see all militia groups as hate groups.
on November 4th, 2009 at 3:29 pm
We are obviously talking past each other, Richard. And there is no point in comparing the US to Switzerland. They are an entirely different and much smaller population, always neutral, like Ireland, and haven’t been involved in promoting any kind of war. Their people would fight only to protect themselves, not to acquire land and resources from anyone else, as our armies have done. What has saved them from aggressors in the past is their mountains, but with global warming, private armies, nuclear weapons and “drone” bombing, who knows what might befall any of us now?
I think it would take a lot more than an armed population to keep anyone free. The fact that our own representatives and businesses are using the Patriot Act and Homeland Security to record and permanently store all our communications is a sign that our constitutional protections are under attack. When everyone can carry a weapon, how can we ever keep the peace in such a money-worshipping, drug-taking. suspicious and jealous population as ours has become? I don’t think anybody would be safe.
on December 30th, 2009 at 1:47 am
The definition of Patriot:
1. A person who loves, supports, and defends his or her country and its interests with devotion.
2. A person who regards himself or herself as a defender, esp. of individual rights, against presumed interference by the federal government
Definition of Militia:
a body of citizens organized in a paramilitary group and typically regarding themselves as defenders of individual rights against the presumed interference of the federal government
I love my country
I’m tired of the lies
I’m tired of the scams
The Government is not doing there job
Its time for the True Patriots turn to do there’s
The younger generation of America was born in a world as it all fell apart, but we are young, we are strong, and we will keep fighting till America is whole again
I’m in
on March 22nd, 2010 at 6:49 pm
When the National Guard turns their guns on Washington, then and only then will they be patriots. Supporting a socialist government is not being a patriot.
I’m with you Mike and I think when the time comes we will see that our Military is truly on our side.
Obama will see change, just not the change he was expecting.
I’m in also.
We will not go quietly into the night.
on March 26th, 2010 at 9:18 pm
These guys are nuts and will kill the republican party. No one wants to be associated with folks that twist our Constitution into an evil document. The right to carry arms was not put there to ruin this country, but it sure is tryin to…
on March 29th, 2010 at 10:19 pm
No Larry, the right to bare arms isn’t ruining this country… It’s commies like yourself who don’t understand what the constitution is or what it stands for..nor do you understand that the right to keep and bare arms was placed in the constitution as our insurance policy, as a people, to assure our freedom against a tyrannical government … you also don’t understand that these militia groups are protesting so morons like you can stay free in a free country……
on March 30th, 2010 at 12:20 pm
Mike, Another One for America, and Lou:
I know your rhetoric sounds tough, but first of all, we need to get tough at the ballot box. Pres. Obama said that’s what elections are for…. and in this country, we can vote people out of office. We are far from needing to imply anything close to “turning our guns on Washington.” That kind of rhetoric simply encourages the government to hunt you down. Better to prepare in all LEGAL ways (we still can own guns and train to shoot them), but better yet in 2010 is to VOTE for a different team, who will value the free enterprise system and individual liberty, and actually create jobs rather than “spreading the wealth.”
on March 30th, 2010 at 1:28 pm
How easy it is in this “free” nation to get angry and set up a tempest in a teapot. I see now that the person who thinks that his ignorance is bliss is definitely wrong.
Some haughty Americans on this thread are proud for the wrong reasons. Threatening anyone with a gun is not what any person interested in freedom would want to do.
If I were a physician, my prescription would be to stop watching and believing the lies of FAUX news. Their views are dangerous to everyone who believes them.
Some of their broadcasts are close to promoting sedition and treason. Only fools would pay attention to such obvious lies.
on April 1st, 2010 at 1:26 pm
America is like a gas can with more vapor than fuel at the present.I know there are many waiting for a catalyst to spark fighting in the steets.As i am also aware of the many armchair revolutionaries i also am aware of the many highly qualified patriots. my personal view is 1000 rounds of ammo a person with a 1000 people is quite a story problem if you consider it took over 300 law enforcement to stop 2 men who werent afraid that the coroner may very well be taking their boots off that evening.i am speaking of the hollywood bank job.i am curious if this could be the spark.we do need population control.and god knows americans have been tolerant for much to long.fuck it i say let the liberty tree be nourished!the madness must stop at whatever the cost.good luck to the real americans and goodbye and good ridance to the scavenging freeloaders and highway robbers(lobbyists and all those who have perverted all that our great country once stood for).
on April 1st, 2010 at 1:46 pm
I think they have a right to protest, but bringing any amount of armed men to the capital city is a bad idea. they have the freedom to protest, but something could happen and all it takes is one shot to turn the White House lawn into a firefight. Bystanders would be hurt and the point of the protest would be lost in all the bloodshed.
on April 1st, 2010 at 2:43 pm
The people have swallowed a lot of false information and now this bad diet is making them mentally ill. They are aware that they are attacking the wrong persons, but they are lazy and the people they want to fight are traditionally considered easy victims.
on April 2nd, 2010 at 1:09 pm
im sick of people telling me to use my vote as a weopon.im sick of the same assholes encouraging me to write to my senator or some other representative who could never understand my point of view.im sick of the talking heads of the media.as an american i am sick of it.now the question is how long do you wait.when your, , thirsty do you wait so long to drink that you may not have the power to reach the spicot,do you wait until your exhausted to hunt.if we keep wishing for these greedy blood sucking perverts in washington to do the right thing we will be both hungry and thirsty to the point of death. as i read some of the comments on this page i wonder how many have decent health care,jobs and families that rely on them.Ill end with this jfk said that without peaceful resolution there will surely be violent revolution.have the courage of your convictions america. there has been no change historically without the unfortunate spilling of blood. even ghandi said that given the choice between cowardice and violence he would choose violence.his view of violence was his ability to endure its infliction upon himself however.we have a long way to go.
on April 2nd, 2010 at 4:41 pm
Being violent and lashing out blindly will lead only toward worse conditions for everyone and more suspicion on the part of authorities.
Some people feel better after they have had a little tantrum, but most find themselves in even deeper trouble, depending on the damage they’ve inflicted on someone else.
How much trouble is it to write a letter to the editor or even to your own representatives? Pick up the phone and speak to your senator’s staff about your particular problems and ask for specific help. They will pass on the message to the Washington offices at the very least. But don’t stop there. Keep writing and calliing until you get specific help. Communication is the cheapest method of protest and a very good way of letting off steam.
How much trouble does that represent to you personally?
on April 4th, 2010 at 12:32 pm
tantrums?????blowing off steam????i have used every method as youve suggested with only laughable results sorry to say.do you teach for a living????respectfully charly
on April 4th, 2010 at 12:35 pm
is it possible that kate and richard are cops or possibly married???
on April 4th, 2010 at 12:46 pm
why does ryan the non aryan use the wordage we will be surprised.who are the we????he certainly speaks as if he has law enforcement in his background.
on July 24th, 2010 at 1:41 pm
there is evidence of ballot rigging in the 2000 and 2004 elections, and it’s blatant that the media and the GOP brick-walled Ron Paul in the primary ensuring that Obama, who the media had been prepping the public for since at least 2006, would face no serious opposition from GWB Jr….
even if Bush and Obama where fairly and freely elected, it by no means abridges me of my right to due process, and it has been the actions of this and the previous administration to imprison people for years on end without charges or oversight by the courts, and that in it of itself is an act of treason punishable by death.
The ones who think the army and national guard are the “patriots”, are the same ones who think that the US government “keeps us free”, these are the same deluded idiots who do not understand that the only laws that keep us free are those that restrict the government.
on October 27th, 2010 at 12:01 pm
Does anybody out there know the National Guard was created to defend the people from the U.S. government and its militarys. Now they take thier orders from the government. Who’s looking out for the people?
on December 6th, 2010 at 12:20 pm
Well Scott, first off the people should look out for the people, as demonstrated by the formation of these militia groups.
Personally I don’t understand why these issues are even being discussed when we have a much bigger one looming over us. Why do people not see that our federal government has literally become “Big Brother”?
Why are more people not outraged over the fact that federal proceedings outweigh state proceedings, this would be blasphemy to our forefathers… Small federal gov, Big state gov. That’s how it should be.
I suppose ill just answer my own question, since ill undoubtedly be dissatisfied with the one i get from this lot.
The simple reason the majority of people aren’t outraged and not joining up with these militias is because of the truly genius and subliminal way that we are fed propaganda.
on March 20th, 2011 at 9:03 am
There is a better way of doing it. 1 million men marching into DC. (No guns, no weapons) just men. Have 500,000 or more split into 2 subgroups. March into DC with the Senate and Congress in full session. Have those groups march into those sessions and take it over. Taking control of these sessions takes control of the country. If he had planned it this way things would have been differant. Then Real Change would have happened. A true “Civil War” would have been started and ended the same day.
“People should not be afraid of its Govenrment. The Government should be afraid of its people.”
For we have the true control.
on April 6th, 2011 at 6:34 pm
really tired of the wanna be gun grabbers in this country,the goverment as it is is all about power ,control,money and the taking away of our rights its time to take a stand for our freedoms
on July 17th, 2012 at 3:06 pm
It seems pretty co-incidental that alot of the things described in this article as false or non existant, have actually come to be true. It give great credence to why americans should join a militia today. The wolf is at the door. Ignore him and he will own you. Call them crazy if you will but they were right. God help us, they were right.
on July 30th, 2012 at 5:44 pm
All of your ranting hasn’t accomplished anything. The Left and Right are joining forces to take your Last Right away. The Right to Bear Arms. We are closer to a civil war than you think. Better keep your ammo dry and ready. Mine is. And I’m a Fleet Marine Force Sailor and Former U. S. Marine Corps Sergeant. Time to stop bickering over people’s liberties you don’t like and treat them as allies or we all lose this war. I don’t like gays or druggy’s lifestyles, but it’s their Right to live their life as they see fit, just as you have a Right to live yours. Think about this for a second: “I have more Respect for a Prostitute, Drug User, and Gay Person than I do most Americans. Now Email me and Tell me Why.”
on August 2nd, 2012 at 3:50 pm
I believe his reference to “pale horse” maybe from the book.. behold a pale horse.