The Hatewatch blog is managed by the staff of the Intelligence Project of the Southern Poverty Law Center, an Alabama-based civil rights organization.

Holocaust Museum Shooter Had Close Ties to Prominent neo-Nazis

By Heidi Beirich on June 10, 2009 - 1:53 pm, Posted in Anti-Semitic

Law enforcement officials have identified the suspect in the Holocaust Museum shootings as James Wenneker von Brunn, born in 1920, from the Eastern Shore of Maryland. D.C. Police Spokeswoman Traci Hughes reportedly said the suspect walked into the museum at about 1 p.m. ET with a rifle and shot a guard.

von Brunn websiteVon Brunn runs the website holywesternempire.org, which was listed in 2008 as a hate site by the Southern Poverty Law Center. Von Brunn has a long history of associations with prominent neo-Nazis and Holocaust deniers. In the 1980s or early 1990s, von Brunn was employed by Noontide Press, a part of the Holocaust denying Institute of Historical Review, which was then run by Willis Carto, one of America’s most prominent anti-Semites.

Von Brunn is the author of the 1999 book, “Kill the Best Gentiles,” a racist and anti-Semitic tome that argues that whites are seeing “today on the world stage a tragedy of enormous proportions: the calculated destruction of the White Race and the incomparable culture it represents. Europe, former fortress of the West, is now over-run by hordes of non-Whites and mongrels.” A raging anti-Semite, von Brunn blames “The Jews” for the destruction of the West. The book is dedicated to prominent neo-Nazis and racists including Revilo Oliver and Wilmot Robertson.

In 2003, AP reported that von Brunn had painted a portrait of Rear Adm. John Crommelin, a raging anti-Semite who was a close associate of neo-Nazi William Pierce, whose book The Turner Diaries inspired Timothy McVeigh’s bombing of the Oklahoma City federal building.

von BrunnOn his website, von Brunn also claims that in 1981, while wearing a “London Fog raincoat to conceal his weapons,” he attempted to put the whole Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve under “legal, non-violent citizens-arrest.” He wanted “to bind their hands and persuade them to appear on television.” The website says he was sentenced to 11 years for his actions.

A raging anti-Semitic and racist posting on the website arsenalofhypocrisy.com attributed to “James Von Brunn” says that “the Federal Reserve Act (1913) gave JEWS control of America’s Money.” It also says that “America is a Third-World racial garbage dump–stupid, ignorant, dead-broke, and terminal.” It ends with, “Prepare to die, Whitey.”

Tags:
  • GB Mescalin

    Von Brunn painted a picture for the infamous Ben Klassen. Who was the founder of the religion that became known as the repellent anti-semitic, racist and homophobic hate group, the Creativity Alliance – aka the Church of Creativity. The picture held pride of place at their North Carolina HateQuarters and can be seen in videos from the late 80′s. Will the SPLC ever do anything to stop this Creativity Alliance hategroup?

  • freetv

    good grief what is happening to this world1?!?!!

  • Doris V

    Lucy Morgenthau, You seem to be one very “Twisted Sister”. Your comment is crazy to say the least. However, you have the right to your views and so far no one has asked that your comment be deleted.

  • Lucy Morgenthau

    It’s the best solution: SHUT DOWN all kind Jewish Brainwashing Museum etc mind control machineries of the ZOGgy-system-industries! It’s beetr no any one be scared or missed his life like Hero von Braun! Down with Zionist Imperialism!

  • jhimmi

    The Fascism argument overlooks the important fact that the real distinct feature of Fascism is its totalitarian nature – a Fascist regime could be ‘progressive’ or ‘conservative’, it really doesn’t matter. In fact, definitions of Fascism often mention both a desire for the ‘new’, e.g., new technology, new theories on anything from social issues to philosophy, while at the same time defining it as a need to recapture some former greatness.

  • Snorlax

    If Junkie Rush Limbaugh thinks this sick twisted Reich Wingnut was a leftie, all that proves is that Junkie Rush Limbaugh is still using drugs.

    These guys are NOT lefties. No way. No how.

    Junkie Rush Limbaugh is using the Rovian propaganda technique of “projection”. He’s projecting this Right Wing problem onto the Left. This tactic is used to defuse your side’s worst weaknesses by accusing the other side of them.

    Junkie Rush has already gone DEAF from taking too much hillbilly heroin. Now, it appears he also has BRAIN DAMAGE from taking too many Oxycontin.

  • Snorlax

    I remember when Alberto “VO5″ Gonzales claimed that there was NO domestic terrorism problem in the US.

    We now know, thanks to a newly-released report from the Obama administration, that domestic terrorism is alive and well and living right next door to you.

    And they’re bigger than the foreign terrorists. They’re sick psychotic freaks, well armed, and they’re already HERE.

    Alberto Gonzales chose to IGNORE them because they were his boss’s political BASE.

    The Republican party actively courts these sick demented domestic terrorist groups for votes.

  • JDG

    To Ruslan:

    There’s no National Slavery Museum in DC.

  • http://ernie1241.googlepages.com/home Ernie Lazar

    Rush Limbaugh, among others, has asserted that Von Brunn’s beliefs and actions were evidence of his “left-wing” ideology.

    For anyone interested in learning more about the ACTUAL extreme right connections and ideas which motivated James W. Von Brunn, see my new report which is based, primarily, upon first-time-released FBI files and documents:

    http://ernie1241.googlepages.com/vonbrunn

  • Allen

    ari,

    I don’t understand where you get the idea that I was bashing Obama. I, too, am very glad that we finally got the right man in the Oval Office.

    Go back and read what I wrote VERY carefully.

  • Ruslan Amirkhanov

    There is a publicly funded anti-Communist museum in DC. And as for the Slavery museum, did you check?

  • JDG

    I don’t understand why we have a Federally funded museum in DC devoted to an event that happened in Europe. I want to know why there’s no Native American Holocaust Museum or a Slavery Holocaust Museum in DC.

  • CK

    “freethinker”-”my point is thus that right wing extremists and left wing extremists are basically brothers in arms, in that if you happen to disagree with their ideology or, god forbid, happen to be the person they see as the “enemy”, they will more often than not wish to see your death, whether they verbalize it or not.”

    Maybe I’ve got selective memory, but it seems to always be the right wing extremists doing and justifying the killings. Are there examples of left wing extremists urging or causing the death of those who don’t agree with them?

  • Ruslan Amirkhanov

    There can be no democracy when 90% of the wealth is controlled by the smallest part of the population.

  • ari

    Allen, get over it. Obama is president and he is doing a great job. Sometimes you dont get what you want.

  • Ruslan Amirkhanov

    It seems some of our conservatives still don’t understand how the speech of O’Reilly, Hannity, Savage, et al is related to events like this. Allen has done a good job trying to explain, and I should add something as well.

    It’s really quite simple: Beck, Hannity, Limbaugh, and their ilk have been openly preaching since before the election that Obama’s victory spells “Marxism, Fascism,” and more or less destruction of America. They have implied that white males will now be persecuted more than ever. These ideas have been expressed at many of those idiotic tea party protests back in April. These pundits constantly spread fear, and when you listen to or watch conservative followers talk politics the underlying emotion one notices is fear- of foreigners, terrorism, and political terms they don’t understand, like Marxism.

    Yet among them are people that, having believed and decided that America is indeed on its last legs, they are not going to sit down and take it. They are going to do something about it, and go out in a blaze of glory. If any of you conservatives still think that these people don’t get their ideas from pundits, look up the confession letter of the guy who shot up that Unitarian Church. All he did was take the rantings of people like Coulter and Savage to their logical conclusion. Indeed, if “liberals” are treasonous scum who are deliberately destroying one’s nation, wouldn’t it justify shooting them?

  • Allen

    I agree, Ruslan has a very good grasp on the facts there. I would add that in a Jeffersonian democracy like the US is supposed to be, the government isn’t evil because the governement is us, We the People, those first 3 words in our founding document, implied to be the “FROM” line in the letter to the government (IE – a letter from ourselves to ourselves) that the Constitution is. If you beleive that the people of the US are evil, then you need to leave, I don’t care where, just go.

  • A. Kevorkian

    Right on, Ruslan Amirkhanov, I totally agree with most of what you have to say!

  • Allen

    Just wanna add one thing –

    Hannity has been at it since before the inauguration, trying to conflate our President with fascism (which shows he has no idea what fascism is). Fascist is the word he actually uses to describe our President. Chances are that one of his loony listeners will try to make an attempt on President Obama’s life or (God, please forbid) actually assassinate him. What do you want to bet that Hannity will try to be dishonest to the point of saying, “Not me, I never used the word fascist.”

    Thing is, Hannity knows he is using a roundabout way of telling his ghouls to go out and murder our President and he’s doing it purposely and deliberately, and when it is done he will lie about it and say, “Oops! Not my fault!”

  • Allen

    “never cease to be amazed at how all of you leftist loonies manage to tie the acts of two criminals to anything that Hannity, Rush, Savage, etal, say on the radio.”

    Just like we were able to tie the acts of 19 highjackers on Sept. 11, 2001 to the hate speech of Osama bin Laden. The arguments that these Hannity/LimBa’al/Savage are making to attempt to distance themselves from these murderers, such as saying that they didn’t kill anybody, we didn’t enable this, is the same reasons that you can use, should you choose to do so, defend bin Laden. They can say, “bin Lauden never lilled anyone, either.” Thing is, hate speech is hate speech – if you get on the air and paint your target in colors of evil and dehumanize them, you give some hate-monger out there liscence to murder because they reason that their target and not human; case closed. Those on the FAUX News side are just as guilty as bin Laden, they fan the flames of hate then sit back and watch; the only difference is that bin Laden doesn’t try to distance himself from the act afterwards, so he’s the more honest of them.

  • http://ernie1241.googlepages.com/home Ernie Lazar

    FURTHER REPLY TO LAURENS:

    Having just spent a week debating this new political spectrum idea on other websites, I would suggest that Laurens consider the following factual data:

    The problem with Laurens’ proposed political spectrum is that persons (or organizations) which Laurens claims advance “extreme leftist” ideas — such as Hitler admirers — are often people who associate themselves with RIGHT WING causes, organizations, and ideas.

    For example, many so-called “conservatives” or “patriot” groups recommend the writings of Eustace Mullins — especially his publications on the Federal Reserve—which Mr. Von Brunn almost certainly read, believed and recommended on his website.

    Eustace Mullins is cited by the “patriot movement” as an indisputable “conservative” or right-winger. But Mullins wrote an article entitled “Hitler: An Appreciation” which was published in a 1952 issue of the National Renaissance Party Bulletin (an avowed fascist group!) — but that doesn’t stop gazillions of right-wingers from recommending him as a reliable source of information!

    To see Mullins’ article and further details about the neo-fascist groups in the U.S. he was connected to, see this 1954 report by the House Committee On Un-American Activities:

    http://debs.indstate.edu/u588n4_1954.pdf

    Three additional problems with Lauren’s ideas:

    (1) when you research the political campaigns of neo-nazis who have run for political office, their themes, ideas and policy proposals are predominantly RIGHT-WING — and in fact, the support they subsequently get (money, endorsements, publicity, votes, etc.) comes NOT from the LEFT, but from the RIGHT side of the political spectrum.

    (2) when you review the recommended reading lists of neo-nazi groups, they often recommend and sell many of the SAME publications as the Birch Society or other extreme right-wing/conservative/patriot groups
    .
    For example: the American Nazi Party used to recommend and sell John Stormer’s classic conspiracy book, “None Dare Call It Treason”—which the JBS effusively praised and sold in all its bookstores! [Stormer, a Goldwater supporter, was a Republican Party official in Missouri!]

    (3) Furthermore, the founder and leader of the American Nazi Party (George Lincoln Rockwell) admired prominent right-wing heroes such as Sen. Joseph McCarthy. In fact, in 1952, Rockwell publicly supported Gen. Douglas MacArthur for President and he organized a pro-MacArthur rally in San Diego.

    Nevertheless, Laurens wants us to believe that Rockwell belongs on the extreme left side of a political spectrum!

    In the 1960′s, Rockwell invited John Birch Society members to attend a meeting of his in Dallas — because he thought they offered fertile ground for recruitment.

    If Rockwell was truly “extreme left” why would he solicit support from the extreme right?

    Last, but not least, the political spectrum advocated by Laurens has no way to explain the following:

    ROBERT SURREY (hereafter RS)
    RS and his wife (Mary) of Dallas TX were both Birch Society members. They both were employed by fellow Bircher, Gen. Edwin A. Walker of Dallas. Mary was Walker’s personal secretary and from 1961-1964 RS was Walker’s chief aide. RS also worked on Walker’s campaign for Governor of Texas.

    In 1963, RS and Walker entered into a partnership as co-owners of American Eagle Publishing Company. The company’s pamphlets were stored at Walker’s home. They published all the standard Birch Society arguments against the UN, against Council on Foreign Relations, against the Warren Court, and against the policies and programs of Presidents John Kennedy and Lyndon Johnson.

    In November 1963, RS authored the “Wanted For Treason” handbill (re: JFK) which was circulated on the streets of Dallas a few days before Kennedy’s assassination.

    RS also was President and Chairman of the Board of United White Christians Majority. The group was conceived by George Lincoln Rockwell to obtain funds for the American Nazi Party from persons who might otherwise not wish to be directly associated with the ANP (in short, it was an ANP front-group). In May 1968, RS became Southwest Regional Coordinator and National Business Manager for the American Nazi Party.

    Many other Birch Society members or supporters involved themselves in neo-nazi activities and/or promoted neo-nazi themes including anti-zionism arguments.

    For example, here are some “graduates” from the Birch Society:

    George P. Dietz (Liberty Bell Publications—the largest U.S. distributor of neo-nazi literature in the U.S. during the 1960′s-1990′s), Tom Metzger (White Aryan Resistance), William P. Gale (Ministry of Christ Church), Ben Klassen (Church of the Creator), Kevin Strom (National Vanguard), Willis Carto (Liberty Lobby and founder of holocaust denial group, Institute For Historical Review), Gordon Kahl (Posse Comitatus) Robert J. Mathews (who created The Order and commited bank and armored car robberies in order to finance Aryan Nations and other similar white supremacist and neo-nazi enterprises) and William Pierce (Pierce joined the American Nazi Party in 1966 and was Editor of National Socialist World, the quarterly journal of Rockwell’s World Union of National Socialists. In 1968, Pierce became second in command of the National Socialist White People’s Party (formerly known as American Nazi Party) but he left in July 1970 to work for Willis Carto’s National Youth Alliance which he wrested away from Carto in 1974 and re-named it National Alliance.)

    As all of the above data should make obvious, EVEN IF your ideology CLAIMS to be “anti-communist” or “anti-Marxist”, or “anti-collectivist” [which Laurens thinks places you on the OPPOSITE side of the spectrum from nazism-fascism-communism] nevertheless that means nothing in terms of
    * where you seek support,
    * whom you admire,
    * what authors and publications you recommend as reliable, or
    * what political alliances you are prepared to make

  • Anna

    freethinker – think about what you just wrote and where you wrote it – the next CZAR- the one Obama will appoint to oversee Free Speech, will hunt you down and put you away for such sound thinking!

    Of COURSE.

    It’s not about liberal vs conservative – it’s about power. Period. Always was. Call it a zillions names and get the ignoranti to blog about it ad nauseum – give them a tool called the Internet to keep them occupied and trackable – instead of marching the streets, exercising their “freedoms”…

  • http://ernie1241.googlepages.com/home Ernie Lazar

    Reply to Freethinker:

    I prefer to address the larger philosophical issue which appears in your comments (and Lauren’s):

    Different types of the same thing can have materially important distinguishing features which make them incompatible with one another. For example: All humans have blood, but if you are given the wrong blood type, you die.

    It is important for us to recognize materially important distinctions if we are to understand ourselves and human history correctly.

    All political extremists may share common attitudes and may suffer from the same type of intellectual and moral deficiencies – but, nevertheless, they do have unique distinguishing features which render them incompatible with each other.

    Consequently, they cannot be grouped together upon a political spectrum if you want to truly understand what motivates people to gravitate toward their candidates, ideas, and proposals and if you want to understand why a specific targeted audience becomes receptive to such candidates, ideas, and proposals.

    Advocating government intervention in some matter is not a sufficient basis for making a decision about where one belongs upon a political spectrum.

    Anybody can select ONE single criterion and then propose we elevate that ONE criterion as the single most important determinant for placement upon a political spectrum — but that artificially forces us to interpret all human behavior and human motives in a manner which distorts reality.

  • CynthiaGee

    I posted earlier today regarding Von Brunns’ ties to War of Baghdad dissident Captain Eric Mays.
    Now it would appear that Mays himself has no problems buddying around with those who promote terrorism.

    Get a load of THIS comment (followed by May’s response), posted by Von Brunn to May’s “Ghost Troop” yahoogroup,which calls for a group of “five or six well equipped martyrs” to take action against our government:

    http://ca.dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/ghosttroop

    Re: Pravda Article – WTC and Bush

    james von brunn wrote:

    BY THE WAY, YOU’RE A VERY FINE WRITER, AMONG OTHER VIRTUES.

    I’m of the opinion that only a military coup d’etat can save our once great Republic. And soon. However, a coup is doubtful as the military too has been infected by the Marxist/Liberal/Jew virus.

    Perhaps we must settle for a team of Special
    Forces, say six (6) well-equipped martyrs. Count me in.
    jvb
    http://www.holywesternempire.org
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    I’m most obliged at your praise, Mr. Von Brunn! Writers always have their vanities, even when they’re doing military missions. For what it’s worth, I called for a military coup d’etat on the night of July 28, 2005, when the Bush Boyz tried to blow up Texas City last time.

    You can find it in an article published shortly afterwards at http://www.vfvs.com/GhostTroopCaptainEricMay.html or you can listen to it as I called for it, in the second of the two interviews at http://www.cloakanddagger.de/media/Captain%20Ma

    Again, thanks for the encouragement. I’m sure that you’ve endured the same kinds of frustrations that I have in the course of your infowar, whenever it began. I’d sure like to turn the Texas City Inquest into a public tribunal for the Jewish Zionists and the Bush Boyz who took their advice and used their media like (embedded) whores. Yours, CPTMAY

  • Ruslan Amirkhanov

    Apparently there are more political illiterates on here besides Laurens. So you think that government intervention is so terrible? Great- move to Somalia, or any number of failed states where bad ol’ government bureaucracy won’t invade your life or get up in your business in any way. Surely if government intervention is the cause of so much trouble, such places are paradise on Earth.

    The fact is that there is no such thing as “government” separate from the private sector. You simply can’t have private property rights and capitalism without a state to enforce contracts and defend the owners’ rights of private property- that is the right to the fruit of YOUR labor. Because the system is class based, and involves the exploitation of the majority by a minority, there needs to be a system of organized violence to maintain the status quo- enter the state.

    The thing is that the big capitalists never believe any of this BS about “government” being inherently evil. They are smart enough to understand that government is a powerful tool which they can manipulate through their greater access to the system(through lawyers, lobbyists, etc.). All of these people know that were it not for the government, they would have to somehow pay for many services essential to maintaining a healthy, minimally educated workforce, and naturally they aren’t inclined to do so.

    Lastly, if you think government intervention is so horrible, you might want to ask why the US, with its neo-liberal policies and rejection of the welfare state model, is almost lowest among industrialized nations for heath care, highest for infant mortality, etc. People living in those so called “socialist” European nations work less, get FAR more for their tax dollars(Americans get missiles and aircraft carriers, and more wars), and surveys show they are far more satisfied and happy with their lives than Americans. It is also worth noting that privatization actually ends up costing the taxpayers more, because it puts a profit motive on government waste. Take a look at Halliburton and all the missing billions thrown down that money hole.

  • http://www.radar13.com Allan McConnell

    Glad that the SPLC was available to answer media questions and educate the public about von Brunn and his ilk. Special thanks to Heidi Bierich for being a sound and articulate voice.

    Allan McConnell
    president, RADAR13.com

  • freethinker

    In my humble opinion, governmental regulation of any industry or group usually does more harm than good, and takes the control out of individuals hands and puts the power in a bureaucracy, which usually take five times the amount of time it would take on the private sector. Are you saying that government control of something ADDS to the freedom inherent in individually or corporate controlled enterprises? Please give me an example, as i am quite curious.

    More often than not government control policies, while made in the name of regulation and equality, end up creating governmental monopolies that are harder to break up than private ones. The belief that politicians, left or right wing, will go uncorrupt throughout there tenure of power, is a very idealistic tenant to hold.Because if you expect the government to take care of you, unchecked, your more naive than those you accuse of thus.

  • http://ernie1241.googlepages.com/home ernie

    The comments by Laurens are being dismissed or ridiculed because contributors here do not understand the essential premise which is being proposed.

    First, by way of preface, Laurens is NOT the originator of this new conception of a political spectrum. It has been floating around in extreme right circles for decades and is promoted particularly by the John Birch Society.

    The fundamental underlying premise is that government is our mortal enemy. Therefore, the more government intervention in our lives, the more it controls or regulates human affairs, the less freedom exists and the more opportunity for tyranny to flourish.

    Consequently, seen from this perspective, the worst violators of human freedom and dignity during the 20th century were those governments which maximized government intervention, i.e. totalitarian dictatorships — and Laurens (and other believers in this idea) don’t see much point in distinguishing between nazi-fascist versus communist ideology since they BOTH resulted in horrific crimes against humanity.

    However, the REAL purpose behind this proposed new idea of a political spectrumis to create an “enemies list”.

    Everything decent, honorable, moral and desirable is placed in the middle or the right side of the spectrum whereas everything that the extreme right wants us to believe is despicable, dishonorable, frightening and dangerous belongs EXCLUSIVELY upon the LEFT side of the spectrum.

    Therefore, collectivists/statists of all kinds (i.e. anyone who advocates utilizing government coercion to accomplish anything in society) which consists of liberals, socialists, communists, fascists, nazis) are “the enemy” of human freedom.

  • freethinker

    i meant brothers in arms as far as what they were fighting in the name of and the unfailing loyalty without questioning the motivations of their government, not in the specifics of their ideologies, which were almost polar opposites. Im saying that the extremist views of both, while differing in goal, had almost the same result, the only real differences in the end result being the economic stability and propaganda used to further public ignorance. In my opinion the Communists and Nationalists held equally ignorant views on the reality of their situation, though it was not really their fault, but the fault of the government propaganda machine. Because in the end both types of government were proven failures in that both allowed a corrupt group to hold all the power in a society that kept the masses blind to the destruction of their freedoms, or continued subjugation of.

  • Doris V

    Be grateful for this HATEWATCH site and support it as best you can. It is unbelievable to know of all the hatred that is present in America and the entire world for that matter. Think often of the song, “Imagine”, by John Lennon. Yes, there are groups fanning the flames of hatred everywhere. They are “terrorists” in our midst and some could be our own neighbors. DHS is correct in saying this, at least I think so. Be vigilant is a good adage.

  • Ruslan Amirkhanov

    Brothers in arms do not fight each other to the death. I am sure the Communist American volunteers fighting the Nationalists in Spain would have been surprised to be told that they Falangists they were killing were their “brothers in arms.”

  • freethinker

    “One thing you and some others left out in your descriptions of fascism is the element of racial superiority. To my knowledge, this has never been an element of socialism. Part of the reason the Nazis were so successful in Germany was that they convinced the majority population that non-whites were responsible for Germany’s suffering. As we all know, it’s easy to blame one group or one section of society for all the problems in the world. It allows the blamer to remain contentedly ignorant and to deny his or her contribution to the suffering.”

    Most political ideologies do this, though not all do it with racially motivated means. Russian communism put all the blame on the tsars and upperclass, and then installed a regime that trampled their rights even further. The problem mainly stems from an inability to see that, more often than not, the new boss is the same or worse than the old boss. This blindness is usually accomplished by fear mongering the public into believing that the world is crashing down around them, and the only way to avoid collapse is to fall behind the new power base. And unflinching loyalty to these powers is what drives the nail in the coffin, so to speak. The only way to avoid oppression is to work together as a nation, and to constantly question the actions of our politicians. Constant vigilance and public condemnation of inadequacies in our leaders is the only way to really ensure just treatment for all.

  • freethinker

    First let me apologize in that i was wrong, the modern definition of facism does place it on the right wing of the political spectrum, however my point is thus that right wing extremists and left wing extremists are basically brothers in arms, in that if you happen to disagree with their ideology or, god forbid, happen to be the person they see as the “enemy”, they will more often than not wish to see your death, whether they verbalize it or not.

    More to the point, an argument on whether the political motivations of a particular group fall on the right or the left is as arbitrary as whether the communists or the nazis were worse. Both want strong governmental and bureaucratic collectivist states, which is inevitably what most large governments turn into anyway.

    “And “freethinker” says we should just set our differences aside? OK, “freethinker”, you go ahead and go hug a far right-wing extremist klansman, maybe you’ll go hug von Braun himself, but I’ll pass.”

    Statements like these prove to people who really want a difference in the way people act toward each other that some people really dont want a community of peace. It seems to me that instead of trying to reach out to people with whom you disagree, you would rather just have them boxed up and shipped away just for having another view on things, however convoluted their views may be.

    Please dont get me wrong, i am not justifying the actions of an extremist, im only saying that dehumanization of a particular group of people is just as bad as those you are condemning.

  • Allen

    Fascism is right-wing; from wikipedia –

    Position in the political spectrum
    Benito Mussolini promoted ambiguity about fascism’s positions in order to rally as many people to it as possible…

    Eugen Weber places fascism on the right: “…their most common allies lay on the right, particularly on the radical authoritarian right, and Italian Fascism as a semi-coherent entity was partly defined by its merger with one of the most radical of all right authoritarian movements in Europe, the Italian Nationalist Association (ANI).”[33] Walter Laqueur says that historical fascism “did not belong to the extreme Left, yet defining it as part of the extreme Right is not very illuminating either”, but that it “was always a coalition between radical, populist (‘fascist’) elements and others gravitating toward the extreme Right”.[34] Roger Griffin argues that since the end of World War II, fascist movements have become intertwined with the radical right, describing certain groups as part of a “fascist radical right”.[35][36] Stanley Payne notes the alliances and sometimes fusion between fascists and right-wing authoritarians, but stresses the important differences between the two,[37] and contends that German Nazism was closer to Russian communism than to any other noncommunist system. [38] Zeev Sternhell sees fascism as an anti-Marxist form of socialism.[39]

    On economic issues, fascists reject ideas of class conflict and internationalism which are commonly held by Marxists and international socialists in favour of class collaboration and statist nationalism.[40][41] Italian fascism declared its objection to excessive capitalism which it called supercapitalism.[42]

    A number of fascist movements described themselves as a “third force” that was outside the traditional political spectrum altogether. Many scholars accept fascism as a search for a Third position between capitalism in parliamentary democracies and communism.[43][44][45][46][47][48][49][50][51] Roger Griffin argued, “Not only does the location of fascism within the right pose taxonomic problems, there are good ground for cutting this particular Gordian knot altogether by placing it in a category of its own “beyond left and right.”[49] Oswald Mosley, leader of the British Union of Fascists, described his position as “hard centre” in the political spectrum.[52] Spanish Falangist leader José Antonio Primo de Rivera was critical of both left-wing and right-wing politics, once saying that “basically the Right stands for the maintenance of an economic structure, albeit an unjust one, while the Left stands for the attempt to subvert that economic structure, even though the subversion thereof would entail the destruction of much that was worthwhile”.[53] Seymour Martin Lipset sees fascism as “extremism of the center”.[54] In some two dimensional political models, such as the Political Compass (where left and right are described in purely economic terms), fascism is ascribed to the economic centre with its extremism expressing itself on the authoritarianism axis instead.[55]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F.....l_spectrum

    Fascism is right-wing. period.

  • Allen

    Inceniary language – you call someone a fascist, a communist, a leftist loonie, whatever, then what you are doing is telling your audience that it is ok to go out and murder that person. That’s freedom of speech the same way as yelling “FIRE” in a crowded movie house is freedom of speech. It inflames a situation that leads to hate and violence. The fact that Hannity/Limbaugh literature was found at the house of the guy who shot up the church hunting for liberals was not just something I made up, and it’s not something that you can even try to refute.

    Fascism is right-wing. Hitler was right-wing. It’s a fact, get over it. Stop crying just because the rest of us are educated enough to know better.

    Yes, Laurens, Sven (self-named) freethinker, they can’t help it that they grew up in a school system that no longer teaches civics and critical-thinking (thanks to Reagan for destroying our public school system). They can’t help that that lack of education has created a vacuum to be easily filled by right-wing ideologues spewing hate speech, turning them into twits. I grew up in the last generation to actually have civics taught in the classroom, that also taught us what is right-wing, left-wing and what all the “isms” are really all about. We’ve got an entire generation, almost two, that do not have the benefit of being educated on what these extremist ideologies can do to a democracy. They are having to learn it all the hard way. I just hope that they don’t destroy my ability to enjoy my golden years in the process.

    As for these hate-mongers; c’mon, you can’t say that you’re surprised that they are still out there. I’m certainly not. I’m in a bi-racial marriage myself and some of them live just down the street from me, displaying their flags and other hate symbols. It’s obvious to me that the KKK and other hate groups are around, I get hard looks from them all the time. And “freethinker” says we should just set our differences aside? OK, “freethinker”, you go ahead and go hug a far right-wing extremist klansman, maybe you’ll go hug von Braun himself, but I’ll pass.

  • John3

    Corporatism/fascism. Good read: “The Plot to Seize the White House” by Jules Archer and “War is a Racket” by 2 time Medal of Honor winner Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler, U.S.M.C. – the same general who saved us from the attempted overthrow and establishment of a Nazi style government in 1934 by the major corporations, Federal Reserve and our most illustrious families, including the Rockefeller’s (one of the owners of the FED), many of whom financed (Chase Bank, IBM, J.P. Morgan, etc.) the rise of Hitler and the Nazi party. Failing here because of the courage and loyalty of Gen. Smedley to his oath, they regrouped and have attacked through the banking system which very few people understood or understand even today (see meetthesystemdotorg and download and read the overview). They did have the American people declared the “enemy of the government and the banking system” in the Trading with the Enemies Act of 1934. And, did have the government and the states pledge all the public assets and their citizenry as collateral to the Federal Reserve for the loans and credit it receives. Nice! All this is available through searches of public records.

    We are now living Thomas Jefferson’s warning about allowing private bankers to print our money. And, it is going to get worse.

    As a side note, Heidi Beirich, did an interview with Fox News anchor Shepard Smith about the shooting and he commented about the crazies wanting to Obama to produce his long form birth certificate instead of the Certification (which Hawaii, itself, will not accept as proof and is issued to foreign born children). Frankly, I don’t understand Obama’s refusal to do so instead of spending almost a million dollars in legal fees to suppress it. But, be that as it may, Ms. Beirich failed to mention that Mr. Smith seems to be a bit of a crazy himself – having deliberately run over another reporter in 2000 with his car to get a parking space she was holding for her team and then running off and saying f**k you to the people trying to help her. He couldn’t understand why he got arrested.

    So, while I think that violence tends to breed violence and is best avoided, hate and racism have been with us for thousands of years and exists in all cultures. I don’t what the answer is – maybe reducing the population down to a more manageable level (with wars and manufactured viruses) to around a billion or less as being propounded by a number of highly placed and influential people and groups. Perhaps the tenets on the Georgia Headstones are a good guide to go by. I am not sure how you choose who is to live and who is to die. It would certainly take a group or individuals who have no problem in objectifying people. I am glad it is not my decision nor would I want it to be.

  • Ben Johnson

    Yesterday I was surfing the net and ran across a web site called “The Armed Jewish Federation” at http://www.tajf.org, these folks are thinking ahead by offering classes in self defense as well as other subjects. I also noticed the the SPLC was listed on their links page. Maybe a thinking man should get interested in this site.

  • freethinker

    “As we all know, it’s easy to blame one group or one section of society for all the problems in the world. It allows the blamer to remain contentedly ignorant and to deny his or her contribution to the suffering.”

    Just like blaming the worlds problems on the right wing republicans?

    “So yes, fascism may involve big gov’t but more prominent is its racist ideology–and that’s what makes it right-wing”

    So all right wingers are racist now. I see…

    @ allen

    the name calling aside, you sir are mistaken on two accounts, first that laurens was saying fascism is communism, all she was saying is that they are both leftist ideologies, which is true. Second being that in a fascist government the corporations control the government, when it is infact the other way around. So the next time you want to call someone an ignorant twit, i suggest you check your own facts and listen to what the person your badmouthing is trying to say.

    On topic, this is a terrible tragedy and it is sad that there are still radicals in this country who feel that taking another’s life will solve there own problems. It is also sad that tragedies like this are used as ammunition to further the growing political rift in this country. I believe debbie hit the nail on the head in that, left/right, democrat/republican, we should set our differences of opinion aside at time like these and truly just mourn the passing of an innocent whose time was cut short because of the anger of another.

  • Dianne Foster

    I would expect more of these incidents, due to the economy. Just as Father Coughlin and Hitler flourished during the Depression, there are those who will traffic in hatred. There is another side too, which is that the press is too often seen as overly compliant with whomever happens to be in political power. While the left may have been powerful in the blogosphere during Bush, we can expect the right to be so during an Obama administration.

    I will say this: our government is not perfect, and they have engaged in cover-ups. When they become known, the blogs have the satisfaction of saying – see, we knew all along. And I really think that blogs serve a populist purpose, which goes back to the days of the handbill on the streets of Boston and Philadelphia before the American Revolution. This nation will never reach such a state of perfection that it will not need gadflies.

    I was struck by von Brunn’s association with the Navy (as a veteran) and his living in Annapolis. From personal experience, and from history going back to slavery, and the oppression against black freedmen (now that’s an interesting word), I know that many on the Eastern shore are classic good ole boys who never hide their prejudices and their sense of injured superiority. But the date chosen to attack the Holocaust museum – I was interested to see that it was close to the anniversary of Israel’s attack (for such it undoubtedly was) upon the USS Liberty. I thought this racist would exploit that, as though he were somehow avenging the deed. I thought he was about the return of the repressed, in his sick, stupid and evil way. And revenge and not reconciliation.

    Our society needs most truth and reconciliation. It does not need crackpots attacking innocent men and women in some delusional quest for power. And indeed this one probably intended to kill far more people until he was stopped by a squad of men doing their job of protection, one of whom died.

    We need to get out ahead of these people and bring about reforms so that they never have a leg to stand on.

    But the Tiller murder also shows that some people do not want to know what is real (such as the dire need for this doctor’s services). They merely want to assert naked power based on their personal delusions of grandeur.

    Somehow, I am struck by how their rage tends to be vented most during Democratic administrations which people have voted for in hope of greater fairness. The bitterness of losers tends to be toxic, and callous, if they are right wing losers.

  • Terri

    I was pointed to this article, which is a this very pertinent editorial about why one person refuses to go on O’Reilly’s show:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....03238.html

  • holiday9

    MB reports “See Max Blumenthal’s shocking footage of the reaction by some Israelis and American Jews in Jerusalem to Obama’s speech to the Muslim world. Co-produced by Joseph Dana, aka Ibn Ezra:”
    check this link
    http://www.worldstarhiphop.com.....8nNEq23jJO

  • Karen

    Thanks to all who wrote to explain anti-semitism. It helped me, but still, I just don’t get it.

  • Ric

    I never cease to be amazed at how all of you leftist loonies manage to tie the acts of two criminals to anything that Hannity, Rush, Savage, etal, say on the radio. IF any of you actually listened to their shows, what you’d hear is the horror they felt at these killings. They don’t advocate, endorse, support, or believe in perpetrating criminal acts against those with whom they don’t agree. How is their exercise of the right to free speech any different than the garbage that spews forth from Obamaniacs, the Rev. Jackson, the Rev. Wright, or, for that matter, the SPLC?

    BTW – the DHS report was wrong on almost every count, but that doesn’t matter to you guys, since it supports your naive beliefs. You better be thanking God (the real one) that your rights continue to be protected by the very folks DHS finds “dangerous”. As soon as they find a way to shut us down, you’ll be their next target because you, too, are not afraid to voice your opinions.

  • Allen

    Poor Laurens is disappointed that we’re all too educated to accept his conflation of fascism with communism. If you could stomach reading “Mein Kampf” just for edcuational purposes, you’d understand that Adolph ranted against communism almost as much as he ranted against the jews. This goes for liberals, too, which puts him and the Limbaugh/Hannity types’ camp as well.

    A nice little cartoon to watch on this subject is “Make Mine Freedom”. http://www.weirduniverse.net/blog/comments/2701/

    Pretty advanced thinking for 1948, eh? Thing is, today these same guys like Limbaugh/Hannity are looking at our freedom of choice (our right to choose the president we want) and trying to make it look like another “ism”. There is no “ism” in democracy.