Hatewatch Tweets
Hatewatch is managed by the staff of the Intelligence Report, an investigative magazine published by the Alabama-based civil rights group Southern Poverty Law Center.
Holocaust Museum Shooter Had Close Ties to Prominent neo-Nazis
Law enforcement officials have identified the suspect in the Holocaust Museum shootings as James Wenneker von Brunn, born in 1920, from the Eastern Shore of Maryland. D.C. Police Spokeswoman Traci Hughes reportedly said the suspect walked into the museum at about 1 p.m. ET with a rifle and shot a guard.
Von Brunn runs the website holywesternempire.org, which was listed in 2008 as a hate site by the Southern Poverty Law Center. Von Brunn has a long history of associations with prominent neo-Nazis and Holocaust deniers. In the 1980s or early 1990s, von Brunn was employed by Noontide Press, a part of the Holocaust denying Institute of Historical Review, which was then run by Willis Carto, one of America’s most prominent anti-Semites.
Von Brunn is the author of the 1999 book, “Kill the Best Gentiles,” a racist and anti-Semitic tome that argues that whites are seeing “today on the world stage a tragedy of enormous proportions: the calculated destruction of the White Race and the incomparable culture it represents. Europe, former fortress of the West, is now over-run by hordes of non-Whites and mongrels.” A raging anti-Semite, von Brunn blames “The Jews” for the destruction of the West. The book is dedicated to prominent neo-Nazis and racists including Revilo Oliver and Wilmot Robertson.
In 2003, AP reported that von Brunn had painted a portrait of Rear Adm. John Crommelin, a raging anti-Semite who was a close associate of neo-Nazi William Pierce, whose book The Turner Diaries inspired Timothy McVeigh’s bombing of the Oklahoma City federal building.
On his website, von Brunn also claims that in 1981, while wearing a “London Fog raincoat to conceal his weapons,” he attempted to put the whole Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve under “legal, non-violent citizens-arrest.” He wanted “to bind their hands and persuade them to appear on television.” The website says he was sentenced to 11 years for his actions.
A raging anti-Semitic and racist posting on the website arsenalofhypocrisy.com attributed to “James Von Brunn” says that “the Federal Reserve Act (1913) gave JEWS control of America’s Money.” It also says that “America is a Third-World racial garbage dump–stupid, ignorant, dead-broke, and terminal.” It ends with, “Prepare to die, Whitey.”
on June 10th, 2009 at 2:32 pm
apparently, feral dogs do run in packs
on June 10th, 2009 at 2:46 pm
I think there were people who knew this was going to happen. Check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:James_von_Brunn
on June 10th, 2009 at 3:02 pm
The link given in the previous comment went to von Brunn’s user page, which is empty. I’m guessing that the poster wanted to direct people to the article about him instead:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_von_Brunn
on June 10th, 2009 at 3:10 pm
All right people, get ready to place your bets. How much would you like to wager that the WN forums are abuzz with activity, and that a general theme will arrise where the attack will be called a “false flag” operation, and some will claim that said operation was pulled off to create support for the hate crimes bill?
on June 10th, 2009 at 3:30 pm
Thank you Alan, but actually I copied the page before it was emptied:
User:James von Brunn
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PLEASE DELETE MY ENTRY & LOCK THIS PAGE ASAP Billbrock (talk) 18:13, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
User: James W. von Brunn, b.1920, attempted to place the Federal Resrve Board of Governors under legal, non-violent citizens arrest, 12-7-81. Von Brunn charged the FED with treason and other high crimes. The FED, a private stock-company, owned by International bankers, financed the construction of manufacturing plants in the Soviet Union during the “Cold War.” War materials, produced by FED financed plants, were used by the Enemy against American military forces in Viet Nam, and elsewhere.
Von Brunn was tried and convicted by a Washington, D.C. kangaroo court; then sentenced to eleven years in federal prison by Judge Harriet Rosen Taylor; the sentence was confirmed by a racially motivated Appeals Court. Von Brunn was imprisoned for 6.5-years.
Von Brunn champions Western Culture,and the practice of Eugenics. He states that Marxism-Multiculturalism-Judaism is the Enemy of Mankind.citing Talmudic quotes to “Kill the Best Gentiles !”
Von Brunn was president of his college fraternity, SAE. He served as PT-Boat captain, USNR, during WW2, earning 4-battle stars and a Commendation Ribbon. His early business career was in NYC as copywriter, art-director and film producer; later as a real-estate broker; and lastly as a writer-artist.
Pls see attchment: FED CAPER.
Retrieved from “http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:James_von_Brunn”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:James_von_Brunn
on June 10th, 2009 at 3:32 pm
What a tragedy !! How many more of these guys are still out there? Has time stopped still? Hasta cuando?
on June 10th, 2009 at 3:37 pm
I am curious as to where the title “Kill the Best Gentiles” comes from. Anyone know?
on June 10th, 2009 at 3:46 pm
the wiki link may be missing due to FBI investigation –
and mad props to SPLC and David Neiwert for all your work on these groups
on June 10th, 2009 at 3:59 pm
“Kill the Best Gentiles”, according to JvB’s website, came from the Talmud. There is an archive of his website (and a link to a PDF of the first 6 chapters of his book) here:
http://web.archive.org/web/200.....page2.html
it’s pretty disturbing stuff, this is sickening that this form of racism still exists in our country.
on June 10th, 2009 at 4:01 pm
it is also sickening to see that some seemingly educated people turn out to be the least humane people.
on June 10th, 2009 at 4:47 pm
I guess the Justice Dept Report was right. Right wing domestic terror groups and loonies are defintely active! The Kansas murder & now this. I hope this is not a pattern but I’m afraid it is.
on June 10th, 2009 at 5:08 pm
This act place by this man is just plain stupid. Stupitidy! Never forget the Holocaust.
on June 10th, 2009 at 5:50 pm
It’s a crying shame that this guy was allowed to wander freely in public while spewing so much hatred – clearly, he was mentally ill. Too bad there isn’t some legal procedure to treat people like this when he was already in jail. And here we go again, another convict with a gun, surely not legally acquired. Another good man killed because of a known nutcase…when/how can we stop this??
on June 10th, 2009 at 6:12 pm
Upon hearing the news of the attack of von Brunn on the Holcaust Museum I thought I would be sick. How many would have died were it not for the actions of the security guards, one of whom later died from his injuries. We should not be surprised that the attack occurred. There have always been extremists in this country and w. all the turmoil w. the economy and the election of our first black president and other issues of concern to the way far right, the neonazis, KKK, what have you have exploited the situation. What w. the murder of Dr.Tiller and the soldier and the 5 policeman it seems as if violence has become an increasingly “acceptable” means of expressing one/s opinion.
I would bet the ranch that there will be more and increasingly frequent such violent acting out by disgruntled losers and rabid extremists (who very likely grew up in violent and unloving homes). /And even tho I believe in gun control I feel that if a monster wants to kill someone no law can stop them.
on June 10th, 2009 at 6:24 pm
Neo Natzies are not right wing ,thier more like fascists which is what Hitler was..Fascist take control of private bussinesses when they take power ,which is what is happening in US today.Comunnism and Fascism are both left wing , but you could say Fascisum is to the right of Comunnism but in no way is it right wing.
on June 10th, 2009 at 6:36 pm
This man’s website states that he has a degree from a non-specified university where he played varsity football, as well as the fact that he is in MENSA and received several medals in WWII, although I highly doubt the truth behind any of these claims. The “true” bio is just an attempt to prove that staunchly white individuals are always highly intelligent and qualified. And by making himself seem like a war hero, we’re supposed to respect him and find some legitimacy in what he does. I don’t buy the BS.
on June 10th, 2009 at 7:09 pm
alexei,
i was curious about that too, and found this:
http://www.jewishjournal.com/n....._20090610/
on June 10th, 2009 at 7:50 pm
Laurens you are providing a typical right wing response. Throwing a bunch of terms out there then trying to tie them together with air; followed by trying to relate all the derogatory terms to the current administration. In your opening sentence alone you must think we are uninformed. The most prominent neo-nazi today is David Duke (Republican-Right Wing ideology). The killing of Dr. Tiller was also highly applauded by the neo nazi groups because they take an anti-choice stance (Right-Wing ideology). Facism is a pro-corporate ideology which is also right wing. I do not see the left wing advocating corporate tax breaks. Government controlling business is communism, government controlling people is socialism and they are both leftist ideologies. I am an independant and think none of these are good, but I hate it when people try to use ignorance to stir up the pot. Please, we have enough of that going on already.
on June 10th, 2009 at 7:54 pm
Laurens, you are totally iggy about what fascism is;
“Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power.” — Benito Mussolini
So, whereas communism is where government controls the manufacturing, fascism is where corporations control government functions (if not the whole government). That’s extreme right-wing, you twit! Ronald Reagan put us in this ideal where corporations could do whatever the hell they wanted to, and Bush Jr. was even worse, bringing us closer to fascism than we have ever been.
You are just repeating the corporatocracy’s drivel that you’ve heard on FAUX News, a corporate run “news” channel that has a vested interest in having it’s zombies not being educated about what fascism really means, therefore being able to keep their fingers in our government’s pie to keep things fascist.
on June 10th, 2009 at 8:09 pm
Lauren, you’re wildly mistaken. Nazi philosophy (fascism) is an extreme right-wing form of politics. They eradicate individual rights and elevate their leader to all-but-monarchical status.
“Nazism is often considered by scholars to be a form of fascism. While it incorporated elements from both left and right-wing politics, the Nazis formed most of their alliances on the right.”
“Among the key elements of Nazism were anti-parliamentarism, Pan-Germanism, racism, collectivism, eugenics, antisemitism, anti-communism, totalitarianism and opposition to economic liberalism and political liberalism. In the 1930s, Nazism was not a monolithic movement, but rather a (mainly German) combination of various ideologies and philosophies which centered around nationalism, anti-communism, traditionalism and the importance of the ethnostate.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi
The notion of “liberal fascism” is right-wing fantasy. The terms are mutually exclusive.
on June 10th, 2009 at 8:13 pm
Pardon me for going off topic, but Lauren’s ignorance just had to be answered.
About the hate crime; these people are getting desperate. A wild animal is never so dangerous as when it is about to die, and that is what is going on with these hate groups. They think they are “pure”. In reality, there is no such thing, and they know it. I challenge any and all of them to get a DNA test to prove that there is no ethnicity other than “caucasian” in their ancestry. Modern genetics has proven that we are all mixed, there never was any such thing as “pure white”, it is an illusion, a superstition.
These hate groups know all this, they see a world in which we are getting too smart to buy their snake oil, so they do two things – one, they play the victim, therefore the title of the book “Kill the Best Gentiles.” They pretend they are victims of a conspiracy to gain sympathy. When they realize they’re not getting any sympathy, they lash out like the viscious animals that they are.
We need to start regarding these people for what they are; they suffer from a mental illness that makes them dangerous to our society and to themselves. They need to be locked up and receive treatment until they can get over it, grow the f*** up and be a productive member of our diverse society like the rest of us.
on June 10th, 2009 at 8:19 pm
Can someone pass a message to Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity that the last two terrorist attacks in the United States were committed by a couple of old white guys? Could you also tell them that their targets were women, and anyone who thinks the holocaust was a crime. Tell them that those guys killed a doctor and a museum guard.
on June 10th, 2009 at 8:56 pm
Evidently it says “even the best of the Gentiles should be killed” in the Talmud. Yes, but that was eons ago and I don’t think all Jews actually follow that.
on June 10th, 2009 at 9:14 pm
The funny thing is, when White Nationalists tell you about what is supposedly in the Talmud, you should ask whether they bothered studying any Hebrew, much less even picked up a translation to check.
And Laurens- no, just…no. You are the perfect example of the American political illiterate. Nazism appealed primarily to the middle class of Germany, especially the peasant class. Germany’s industrialists sank a lot of funds into the NSDAP, saving it in effect, and the army aristocracy got on board after 1934 when Hitler proved his loyalty to the status quo by eliminating his Strasserite rivals(the Strassers and Roehm did represent a sort of left-wing current in the NSDAP, leftovers from naive socialists who fell for the Nazi party’s admittedly phony pseudo-left rhetoric).
All of Germany’s economic policies clearly show that big industrialists were protected, unions outlawed, and middle class assets were favored(though some small businesses were forced to combine). Nazi Germany, and Fascist Italy were indeed right-wing ruled nations.
See Laurens, that’s something called history. It’s learned by reading lots of books and checking the credentials of the authors, as well as comparing and contrasting the claims of said books. It is not something you learn by listening to talk radio or watching Fox News.
on June 10th, 2009 at 9:14 pm
Thank you everybody. I can’t believe somebody would come here of all places and spout idiocricies (Laurens).
On a more somber note I feel sad for the family of the officer who was murdered.
As for Rush and Hannity I think we have all known since childhood that instigators are cowards. Their hateful followers are cowards too.
on June 10th, 2009 at 9:31 pm
What is up with antisemitism? Can someone please explain the roots of this particular hatred? I’ve never understood it. I came in contact with the Jewish community when I temped for a Jewish non-profit. It never occured to me to treat the people I met with anything but respect for these good people. I just don’t get it.
on June 10th, 2009 at 9:39 pm
I fear that the rantings on websites like von Brunn’s will be taken more seriously If the internet becomes the only form of media If newspapers and magazines go away, the next generation will not be able to tell a Stormfront or Prison Planet from a Time or Newsweek.
What were once poorly made print newsletters are now sophisticated websites. How do we combat this?
on June 10th, 2009 at 10:26 pm
AC: a good first step, I’d say, is the teaching of critical thinking skills in our public schools. A basic course in symbolic logic ought to be enough to knock down the poorly constructed “arguments” of hate-mongers.
The iron-fisted dictator in me also advocates for a much broader definition of inciting or incendiary language, so that more of these people can be locked up before actually doing anything. I try not to listen to that voice, though. ;)
on June 10th, 2009 at 10:51 pm
This dialogue is certainly interesting but the constant bashing of the Fox News Channel is insipid and juvenile. I watched all the networks today…only FNC found the stupid writings of this guy and read them, with obvious distaste, verbatim on the air. While everyone argues about facism and communism and such, why isn’t anyone wondering why a guy who leaves prison EARLY for his pointless and stupid crimes is out spewing this stuff while obviously watched by FBI, SPLC and others. 1981 isn’t exactly ancient history.
on June 10th, 2009 at 11:36 pm
What I could NEVER understand is why all these white-supremecist groups blame the Jews for all their problems, and that Jews are “Trying to eliminate the White race” when in fact most Jews are WHITE! At least all the ones I’ve met in my life, and ones I’ve seen on movies/TV/Internet. Most Yiddish speaking Jews are of Eastern European ancestry and certainly look more Caucasian than some Caucasians (from southeast Europe and SW Asia). Can anyone disagree that Anne Frank was white?
on June 10th, 2009 at 11:56 pm
Karen, when I have to explain this in a nutshell to students who have no background, here’s what I say:
Judaism was the first monotheistic religion, and the first to emphasize a personal relationship between God and the people. This put it at odds with other religions of that day. Judaism also advocates an “I am my brother’s keeper” philosophy, which was very different from the earlier polytheistic religions of the region, and which has been characterized as akin to communism. Jews also do not proselytize; some see this to be clannish. Jews, of course, were vilified before the time of Christ and have been made scapegoats for millennia.
I’m by no means a scholar, but I get this question often from students, and usually my explanation gives them a frame of reference from which to deepen their understanding.
on June 11th, 2009 at 12:21 am
This seems like a copycat action to me.
A lot of members of the Pro-Life movement felt that Roeder saved baby lives and that he was a hero, courageous enough to kill Dr. Tiller in front of everyone.
The demented Von Brunn was probably inspired by Roeder’s action.
There will be more. Another loon somewhere is loading his gun, sharpening his knife, mixing his fertilizer (whatever) –hoping to strike a blow for his cause.
Don’t mistake the reactions of their constituencies — these guys are heroes to those that matter most to them.
There will be more.
on June 11th, 2009 at 12:59 am
I say we fight like hell to keep print media alive. When the newspapers go, critical thinking goes with it. When the age of illiteracy begins, the von Brunn’s will be much harder to contain.
Save print media!
on June 11th, 2009 at 2:54 am
Sven,
Hannity, Limbaugh and their ilk smile on this sort of thing. Remember the guy in Kentucky who burst into a UU church and shot the place up? He was hunting liberals. They found books at his house by Hannity, Limbaugh, Coulter, “Savage” Weiner, O’Reilly, etc., etc.
This is how they maintain the control of their viewing zombies; keep the hate pump flowing! Whatever hate they can conjur up, especially against liberals, but also hate against the “brown hoardes” coming across the border and an undercurrent of racial hatred, anti-semitism, sexism and gay-bashing that runs through all their commentary. This is all the life-blood of FAUX News and their kind.
on June 11th, 2009 at 6:03 am
Karen, the roots of Anti-Semitism are deep indeed, too much to include here, but if we speak of White Nationalists like this old fellow, their reasons can be explained in a simpler format. Basically, White Nationalists tend to be your average white middle/upper class male conservatives(with libertarian leanings sometimes). They tend to get their political education from what is often called the right wing noise machine. Of course the problem is that the actual conservative leadership and the Republican party often doesn’t really have an interest in the social issues that hook their constituants. That is to say, things like abortion, affirmative action, illegal immigration- none of these things are of particular concern to the Republican leadership and politicians, particularly their extremely wealthy backers as well as corporations. As a result, many “principled” ideological conservatives end up, over time, rejecting the mainstream conservatives because they see what they feel is ideological weakness or hypocrisy.
On the other hand, they need to be able to explain as to why conservatism is a “false alternative”, but more importantly, they must explain why, if according to them history is driven by race(biological determinism) and the white race is superior to most if not all other races, yet despite that they simultaneously claim that the white race is “committing suicide” and on the brink of destruction. You see, when your ideology is a narrative of historical competition between races, you need an explanation as to why your own race is and has been, according to your ideology, committing so many actions that are supposedly leading to its own destruction.
Enter the Jew. Most everyone sees Jews as white. Certainly if you ask American minorities about Jews they would say so. Many Jews have long roots in Europe, and it is obvious that throughout the centuries they have mixed heavily with Europeans, otherwise they wouldn’t look that way. Yet Jewish identity can often be a paradox. It can often be seen as an ethnicity rather than some religious or cultural background. Because Jews, owing largely to their white skin, have been able to climb to some of the top levels of society in the US, Canada, in Europe, they make a convenient target. They of course have assimilated enough to make it in a society of white privilege, but they still have that technical “Jewish background” regardless of their personal religious affiliation.
Now we all know that if WNs said that black people run the US, it wouldn’t fly. They would be laughed at and sent packing. We know this because the black community, owing to ongoing discrimination, has not managed to secure as many high positions in the US elite. They simply do not have the power. But in the eyes of WNs, Jews do have this power.
So in summary, the Jew serves an important purpose to these people- when people point out that the US, and practically the whole world, is run by white men, they will claim that in reality it is run by Jews, who are according to them not-white. The idea they try to send is that the Jews in power actually work for collective Jewish interests, whereas all their gentile counterparts, the majority in fact, are just working for individual self-interests like any other businessman. Or they are actively supporting “the Jews” for some reason that they can never explain.
Anyway, that is the basic idea, at least as to why WNs obsess over Jews. Without a Jewish conspiracy, their ideology’s foundation crumbles.
on June 11th, 2009 at 6:24 am
Totalitarianism-the total control by centralised government over every aspect of life , political and economic.Communism is the left wing of totalitariamism fascism,neo-Nazis.KKK the right wing.So fascist are just to the right of communist. I’m disappointed in the responses from my earlier post
on June 11th, 2009 at 7:01 am
Things like this really scare me. It means someone dropped the ball on allowing a thug like this to be released from prison. People like Rush and Hannity’s only purpose is to sow the seeds of anger and hate and should be removed from the airwaves. Free speech should have a limit and hate should be the limit. Tell everyone you know to join SPLC since they seem to be the only ones taking hate seriously.
on June 11th, 2009 at 7:22 am
This is very disturbing. This type of ignorance is the same ignorance that takes place all over the world. I can’t believe it still exists the way it is right now in this day and age in this country. You can call it the Taliban, you can call it Al Qaeda, KKK, Neo-Nazi’s, Black Panthers, Nation of Islam, etc…..whatever you call it, it’s all the same evil it’s all the same ignorance and hate. I truly believe that the human race will never survive in the long term due to our self-destructive behavior. Until we learn to live side by side with on another….nobody will survive. Not even the Aryan nation.
on June 11th, 2009 at 7:48 am
Do any of you realize how silly and hate filled you each sound calling each other names “right-wing” “left-wing” “Fascist”, “communist”, “nazi”, bottom line is this country and world is filled with individual humans who hate others plain and simple just because someone is different than them. It has nothing to do with politics, religion or anything else. It is pure difference, fear of not understanding the difference and the desire to be in control of their life (i.e., keep that difference away).
I am sure I will be blasted for being the kumbaya kind of person that someone on this thread hates (of course), but I believe until we stop trying to blame (a group, a government, mom and dad) and start trying to figure out how we can all get along and help each other, more of this will come as the end of the Mayan calendar approaches in the 2012-2013 time frame. It has to happen because mother earth is being destroyed by humans and she needs to reset and re-balance.
We all have a choice, I choose to be kind to earth and all her children (including left-wingers and right-wingers, all religions, no religions, all people and all animals). I do believe in punishment for crimes and I hope Mr. Von Brunn gets what he is due.
Sure I might get killed by someone who hates me because of these views, that is their choice and they have to deal with the consequences. I still choose to have kindness in my heart.
on June 11th, 2009 at 7:49 am
I’m trying to figure out why at age 88 von Brunn is just satisfying his longing to kill someone to fulfill white supremacy’s ultimate ambition. Especially when he could have killed someone during an era in the U.S. when he would have barely stood prosecution. My best guess is that he’s a coward and would rather kill someone near the end of his life so as not to endure continual punishment from his conscience or a long stint in the penal system. Yep, he was too much of a coward to fall head-long into white supremacy, but had to commit this egregious act so the lifetime he invested in these ideals would not go to waste.
on June 11th, 2009 at 8:14 am
One possible reason von Brunn chose to commit this crime now: his age. Here’s a quote from Wikipedia’s page on the number 88:
“Eighty-eight is used as code among Neo-Nazis to identify each other. H is the 8th letter of the alphabet, so 88 is taken to stand for HH which in turn means Heil Hitler. For example, the number is used in the song “88 rock’n'roll band” by the neo-Nazi group Landser. The late convicted Order terrorist David Lane wrote “Fourteen Words” and 88 Precepts, and the numbers are often found in combination (1488, 14/88, etc.). This form of the number has inspired the naming of the groups Column 88, Unit 88, and White Legion 88.”
on June 11th, 2009 at 8:40 am
Laurens, I think that by focusing so much on the “isms” you are getting lost in the rhetoric and not focusing on the larger picture at hand. As Debbie suggested, the problem here is extremism, regardless of whether it comes from the left or the right.
But I would agree with another poster that your attempt to draw parallels between Nazi fascism and the Obama Administration is dead wrong. Even if you consider Obama’s policies socialist, they are no way like Hitler’s or Mussolini’s.
One thing you and some others left out in your descriptions of fascism is the element of racial superiority. To my knowledge, this has never been an element of socialism. Part of the reason the Nazis were so successful in Germany was that they convinced the majority population that non-whites were responsible for Germany’s suffering. As we all know, it’s easy to blame one group or one section of society for all the problems in the world. It allows the blamer to remain contentedly ignorant and to deny his or her contribution to the suffering.
So yes, fascism may involve big gov’t but more prominent is its racist ideology–and that’s what makes it right-wing.
on June 11th, 2009 at 8:54 am
He also has close ties to “Captain Eric May”, and it appears that May may have ties to Steve Reimink (the real owner of Von Brunn’s website), and to various Islamic groups:
http://www.geocities.com/onlythecaptain/
http://ca.groups.yahoo.com/gro.....ssage/6356
http://www.spiritone.com/~ghos.....H_May.html
on June 11th, 2009 at 9:20 am
watch stormfront, VNN, and other pro-hate sites, TRY to weasel out of this one.
on June 11th, 2009 at 10:10 am
Personally I don’t like violence. And definetely Mr. Von Brunn will have consider me part of the “mongrels” he hates [my parents are Puerto Rican and my ancestors from Spain]. But I never like the Holocaust Museum for one simple reason: many Jews, if not all, think the “holocaust” was something “unique”, how wrong they are! The “holocaust” is simply another example of the hiidden “dark side” of human nature. Nazi Germans did not invent evil. Evil is in all of us humans, whether gentiles antisemitic, and Jews also as humans. Of course we have good ones and bad ones in gentiles and Jews. Doubts? Isn’t what the Israelis doing in Gaza “humane”? Yeah, call me “antisemitic” and “bigot”. Childish names calling will not intimidate me telling some honest truths. Sorry.
on June 11th, 2009 at 10:11 am
Hate speech is protected speech.
To put in bluntly, incendiary speech is the ONLY kind of speech that merits constitutional protection. The object of hate – Jews, bankers, abortions providers or white suprematists for that matter – is irrelevant.
Alas, that this octogenarian decided to act on his own rants is a crime.
To Alexei: “I don’t think all Jews actually follow that” ?? You mean that there’s an off chance that maybe, just maybe, some of us wouldn’t be killing all the best gentiles in sight?! Von Brunn would be so proud of your comment!
Cheers to Alexei for the dumb post and to the community for leaving it unchallenged, here of all places. :(
on June 11th, 2009 at 10:13 am
And I had never been in this museum. I am quite knowledgeable, as an “historian buff” of Hitler’s Germany. I have been reading about the subject for decades. This museum will not add nor take away what i already know. Why waste my time “visiting” it?
on June 11th, 2009 at 10:57 am
Have anyone ever given it any thought as to why there is so much hatred towards Blacks and Jews in America? They must really envy us; to hate us for no reason. These are the characteristics of jealousy, and envy; or is it that their self-hatred is “eating them up”? Just a thought!
on June 11th, 2009 at 11:01 am
The bottom line is that if people regardless of their ethnicity, religion, economic status, etc., would have a sense of respect abd tolerance for one another, such an unfortunate killing would have been certainly avoided.
on June 11th, 2009 at 11:09 am
Mr. Anonymous, I first learned of the Holocaust when I was a child. I was appalled and could not wrap my mind around the horrific acts committed against those who were not “pure” Aryans. I could not understand why people could behave in such a vicious manner. The murderers were organized murderers. They didn’t materialize in a vaccuum. The acts were committed by individuals who made up the state. People in Germany wanted a leader who was “strong” and who would lead them to world domination. Most failed to consider the implications of what the Nazis were doing. They sent their consciences to the dump. Those who questioned the Nzzi actions and ideas were silenced by fear or by ending up in concentration camps themselves. If you visit the Holocaust Museum you will learn a whole lot more by seeing the tangible results of hate and how it must never be allowed to happen again. And you will better understand why Israel says “Never again.” And I think that motivation is at the root of much of the politics and actions of the state of Israel. If you at least read NIGHT bv Elie Weisel you will gain a perspective on the Holocaust through the eyea of the victims. And there are more than a few people who think like von Brunn. I don’t understand how they got to be so twisted up inside and how evil they really are. For the life of me I can’t.
on June 11th, 2009 at 11:27 am
Poor Laurens is disappointed that we’re all too educated to accept his conflation of fascism with communism. If you could stomach reading “Mein Kampf” just for edcuational purposes, you’d understand that Adolph ranted against communism almost as much as he ranted against the jews. This goes for liberals, too, which puts him and the Limbaugh/Hannity types’ camp as well.
A nice little cartoon to watch on this subject is “Make Mine Freedom”. http://www.weirduniverse.net/blog/comments/2701/
Pretty advanced thinking for 1948, eh? Thing is, today these same guys like Limbaugh/Hannity are looking at our freedom of choice (our right to choose the president we want) and trying to make it look like another “ism”. There is no “ism” in democracy.
on June 11th, 2009 at 11:33 am
I never cease to be amazed at how all of you leftist loonies manage to tie the acts of two criminals to anything that Hannity, Rush, Savage, etal, say on the radio. IF any of you actually listened to their shows, what you’d hear is the horror they felt at these killings. They don’t advocate, endorse, support, or believe in perpetrating criminal acts against those with whom they don’t agree. How is their exercise of the right to free speech any different than the garbage that spews forth from Obamaniacs, the Rev. Jackson, the Rev. Wright, or, for that matter, the SPLC?
BTW – the DHS report was wrong on almost every count, but that doesn’t matter to you guys, since it supports your naive beliefs. You better be thanking God (the real one) that your rights continue to be protected by the very folks DHS finds “dangerous”. As soon as they find a way to shut us down, you’ll be their next target because you, too, are not afraid to voice your opinions.
on June 11th, 2009 at 11:41 am
Thanks to all who wrote to explain anti-semitism. It helped me, but still, I just don’t get it.
on June 11th, 2009 at 11:45 am
MB reports “See Max Blumenthal’s shocking footage of the reaction by some Israelis and American Jews in Jerusalem to Obama’s speech to the Muslim world. Co-produced by Joseph Dana, aka Ibn Ezra:”
check this link
http://www.worldstarhiphop.com.....8nNEq23jJO
on June 11th, 2009 at 11:56 am
I was pointed to this article, which is a this very pertinent editorial about why one person refuses to go on O’Reilly’s show:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....03238.html
on June 11th, 2009 at 11:59 am
I would expect more of these incidents, due to the economy. Just as Father Coughlin and Hitler flourished during the Depression, there are those who will traffic in hatred. There is another side too, which is that the press is too often seen as overly compliant with whomever happens to be in political power. While the left may have been powerful in the blogosphere during Bush, we can expect the right to be so during an Obama administration.
I will say this: our government is not perfect, and they have engaged in cover-ups. When they become known, the blogs have the satisfaction of saying – see, we knew all along. And I really think that blogs serve a populist purpose, which goes back to the days of the handbill on the streets of Boston and Philadelphia before the American Revolution. This nation will never reach such a state of perfection that it will not need gadflies.
I was struck by von Brunn’s association with the Navy (as a veteran) and his living in Annapolis. From personal experience, and from history going back to slavery, and the oppression against black freedmen (now that’s an interesting word), I know that many on the Eastern shore are classic good ole boys who never hide their prejudices and their sense of injured superiority. But the date chosen to attack the Holocaust museum – I was interested to see that it was close to the anniversary of Israel’s attack (for such it undoubtedly was) upon the USS Liberty. I thought this racist would exploit that, as though he were somehow avenging the deed. I thought he was about the return of the repressed, in his sick, stupid and evil way. And revenge and not reconciliation.
Our society needs most truth and reconciliation. It does not need crackpots attacking innocent men and women in some delusional quest for power. And indeed this one probably intended to kill far more people until he was stopped by a squad of men doing their job of protection, one of whom died.
We need to get out ahead of these people and bring about reforms so that they never have a leg to stand on.
But the Tiller murder also shows that some people do not want to know what is real (such as the dire need for this doctor’s services). They merely want to assert naked power based on their personal delusions of grandeur.
Somehow, I am struck by how their rage tends to be vented most during Democratic administrations which people have voted for in hope of greater fairness. The bitterness of losers tends to be toxic, and callous, if they are right wing losers.
on June 11th, 2009 at 12:34 pm
“As we all know, it’s easy to blame one group or one section of society for all the problems in the world. It allows the blamer to remain contentedly ignorant and to deny his or her contribution to the suffering.”
Just like blaming the worlds problems on the right wing republicans?
“So yes, fascism may involve big gov’t but more prominent is its racist ideology–and that’s what makes it right-wing”
So all right wingers are racist now. I see…
@ allen
the name calling aside, you sir are mistaken on two accounts, first that laurens was saying fascism is communism, all she was saying is that they are both leftist ideologies, which is true. Second being that in a fascist government the corporations control the government, when it is infact the other way around. So the next time you want to call someone an ignorant twit, i suggest you check your own facts and listen to what the person your badmouthing is trying to say.
On topic, this is a terrible tragedy and it is sad that there are still radicals in this country who feel that taking another’s life will solve there own problems. It is also sad that tragedies like this are used as ammunition to further the growing political rift in this country. I believe debbie hit the nail on the head in that, left/right, democrat/republican, we should set our differences of opinion aside at time like these and truly just mourn the passing of an innocent whose time was cut short because of the anger of another.
on June 11th, 2009 at 12:47 pm
Yesterday I was surfing the net and ran across a web site called “The Armed Jewish Federation” at http://www.tajf.org, these folks are thinking ahead by offering classes in self defense as well as other subjects. I also noticed the the SPLC was listed on their links page. Maybe a thinking man should get interested in this site.
on June 11th, 2009 at 1:33 pm
Corporatism/fascism. Good read: “The Plot to Seize the White House” by Jules Archer and “War is a Racket” by 2 time Medal of Honor winner Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler, U.S.M.C. – the same general who saved us from the attempted overthrow and establishment of a Nazi style government in 1934 by the major corporations, Federal Reserve and our most illustrious families, including the Rockefeller’s (one of the owners of the FED), many of whom financed (Chase Bank, IBM, J.P. Morgan, etc.) the rise of Hitler and the Nazi party. Failing here because of the courage and loyalty of Gen. Smedley to his oath, they regrouped and have attacked through the banking system which very few people understood or understand even today (see meetthesystemdotorg and download and read the overview). They did have the American people declared the “enemy of the government and the banking system” in the Trading with the Enemies Act of 1934. And, did have the government and the states pledge all the public assets and their citizenry as collateral to the Federal Reserve for the loans and credit it receives. Nice! All this is available through searches of public records.
We are now living Thomas Jefferson’s warning about allowing private bankers to print our money. And, it is going to get worse.
As a side note, Heidi Beirich, did an interview with Fox News anchor Shepard Smith about the shooting and he commented about the crazies wanting to Obama to produce his long form birth certificate instead of the Certification (which Hawaii, itself, will not accept as proof and is issued to foreign born children). Frankly, I don’t understand Obama’s refusal to do so instead of spending almost a million dollars in legal fees to suppress it. But, be that as it may, Ms. Beirich failed to mention that Mr. Smith seems to be a bit of a crazy himself – having deliberately run over another reporter in 2000 with his car to get a parking space she was holding for her team and then running off and saying f**k you to the people trying to help her. He couldn’t understand why he got arrested.
So, while I think that violence tends to breed violence and is best avoided, hate and racism have been with us for thousands of years and exists in all cultures. I don’t what the answer is – maybe reducing the population down to a more manageable level (with wars and manufactured viruses) to around a billion or less as being propounded by a number of highly placed and influential people and groups. Perhaps the tenets on the Georgia Headstones are a good guide to go by. I am not sure how you choose who is to live and who is to die. It would certainly take a group or individuals who have no problem in objectifying people. I am glad it is not my decision nor would I want it to be.
on June 11th, 2009 at 1:55 pm
Inceniary language – you call someone a fascist, a communist, a leftist loonie, whatever, then what you are doing is telling your audience that it is ok to go out and murder that person. That’s freedom of speech the same way as yelling “FIRE” in a crowded movie house is freedom of speech. It inflames a situation that leads to hate and violence. The fact that Hannity/Limbaugh literature was found at the house of the guy who shot up the church hunting for liberals was not just something I made up, and it’s not something that you can even try to refute.
Fascism is right-wing. Hitler was right-wing. It’s a fact, get over it. Stop crying just because the rest of us are educated enough to know better.
Yes, Laurens, Sven (self-named) freethinker, they can’t help it that they grew up in a school system that no longer teaches civics and critical-thinking (thanks to Reagan for destroying our public school system). They can’t help that that lack of education has created a vacuum to be easily filled by right-wing ideologues spewing hate speech, turning them into twits. I grew up in the last generation to actually have civics taught in the classroom, that also taught us what is right-wing, left-wing and what all the “isms” are really all about. We’ve got an entire generation, almost two, that do not have the benefit of being educated on what these extremist ideologies can do to a democracy. They are having to learn it all the hard way. I just hope that they don’t destroy my ability to enjoy my golden years in the process.
As for these hate-mongers; c’mon, you can’t say that you’re surprised that they are still out there. I’m certainly not. I’m in a bi-racial marriage myself and some of them live just down the street from me, displaying their flags and other hate symbols. It’s obvious to me that the KKK and other hate groups are around, I get hard looks from them all the time. And “freethinker” says we should just set our differences aside? OK, “freethinker”, you go ahead and go hug a far right-wing extremist klansman, maybe you’ll go hug von Braun himself, but I’ll pass.
on June 11th, 2009 at 2:07 pm
Fascism is right-wing; from wikipedia –
Position in the political spectrum
Benito Mussolini promoted ambiguity about fascism’s positions in order to rally as many people to it as possible…
Eugen Weber places fascism on the right: “…their most common allies lay on the right, particularly on the radical authoritarian right, and Italian Fascism as a semi-coherent entity was partly defined by its merger with one of the most radical of all right authoritarian movements in Europe, the Italian Nationalist Association (ANI).”[33] Walter Laqueur says that historical fascism “did not belong to the extreme Left, yet defining it as part of the extreme Right is not very illuminating either”, but that it “was always a coalition between radical, populist (‘fascist’) elements and others gravitating toward the extreme Right”.[34] Roger Griffin argues that since the end of World War II, fascist movements have become intertwined with the radical right, describing certain groups as part of a “fascist radical right”.[35][36] Stanley Payne notes the alliances and sometimes fusion between fascists and right-wing authoritarians, but stresses the important differences between the two,[37] and contends that German Nazism was closer to Russian communism than to any other noncommunist system. [38] Zeev Sternhell sees fascism as an anti-Marxist form of socialism.[39]
On economic issues, fascists reject ideas of class conflict and internationalism which are commonly held by Marxists and international socialists in favour of class collaboration and statist nationalism.[40][41] Italian fascism declared its objection to excessive capitalism which it called supercapitalism.[42]
A number of fascist movements described themselves as a “third force” that was outside the traditional political spectrum altogether. Many scholars accept fascism as a search for a Third position between capitalism in parliamentary democracies and communism.[43][44][45][46][47][48][49][50][51] Roger Griffin argued, “Not only does the location of fascism within the right pose taxonomic problems, there are good ground for cutting this particular Gordian knot altogether by placing it in a category of its own “beyond left and right.”[49] Oswald Mosley, leader of the British Union of Fascists, described his position as “hard centre” in the political spectrum.[52] Spanish Falangist leader José Antonio Primo de Rivera was critical of both left-wing and right-wing politics, once saying that “basically the Right stands for the maintenance of an economic structure, albeit an unjust one, while the Left stands for the attempt to subvert that economic structure, even though the subversion thereof would entail the destruction of much that was worthwhile”.[53] Seymour Martin Lipset sees fascism as “extremism of the center”.[54] In some two dimensional political models, such as the Political Compass (where left and right are described in purely economic terms), fascism is ascribed to the economic centre with its extremism expressing itself on the authoritarianism axis instead.[55]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F.....l_spectrum
Fascism is right-wing. period.
on June 11th, 2009 at 2:43 pm
First let me apologize in that i was wrong, the modern definition of facism does place it on the right wing of the political spectrum, however my point is thus that right wing extremists and left wing extremists are basically brothers in arms, in that if you happen to disagree with their ideology or, god forbid, happen to be the person they see as the “enemy”, they will more often than not wish to see your death, whether they verbalize it or not.
More to the point, an argument on whether the political motivations of a particular group fall on the right or the left is as arbitrary as whether the communists or the nazis were worse. Both want strong governmental and bureaucratic collectivist states, which is inevitably what most large governments turn into anyway.
“And “freethinker” says we should just set our differences aside? OK, “freethinker”, you go ahead and go hug a far right-wing extremist klansman, maybe you’ll go hug von Braun himself, but I’ll pass.”
Statements like these prove to people who really want a difference in the way people act toward each other that some people really dont want a community of peace. It seems to me that instead of trying to reach out to people with whom you disagree, you would rather just have them boxed up and shipped away just for having another view on things, however convoluted their views may be.
Please dont get me wrong, i am not justifying the actions of an extremist, im only saying that dehumanization of a particular group of people is just as bad as those you are condemning.
on June 11th, 2009 at 3:15 pm
“One thing you and some others left out in your descriptions of fascism is the element of racial superiority. To my knowledge, this has never been an element of socialism. Part of the reason the Nazis were so successful in Germany was that they convinced the majority population that non-whites were responsible for Germany’s suffering. As we all know, it’s easy to blame one group or one section of society for all the problems in the world. It allows the blamer to remain contentedly ignorant and to deny his or her contribution to the suffering.”
Most political ideologies do this, though not all do it with racially motivated means. Russian communism put all the blame on the tsars and upperclass, and then installed a regime that trampled their rights even further. The problem mainly stems from an inability to see that, more often than not, the new boss is the same or worse than the old boss. This blindness is usually accomplished by fear mongering the public into believing that the world is crashing down around them, and the only way to avoid collapse is to fall behind the new power base. And unflinching loyalty to these powers is what drives the nail in the coffin, so to speak. The only way to avoid oppression is to work together as a nation, and to constantly question the actions of our politicians. Constant vigilance and public condemnation of inadequacies in our leaders is the only way to really ensure just treatment for all.
on June 11th, 2009 at 3:20 pm
Brothers in arms do not fight each other to the death. I am sure the Communist American volunteers fighting the Nationalists in Spain would have been surprised to be told that they Falangists they were killing were their “brothers in arms.”
on June 11th, 2009 at 3:28 pm
Be grateful for this HATEWATCH site and support it as best you can. It is unbelievable to know of all the hatred that is present in America and the entire world for that matter. Think often of the song, “Imagine”, by John Lennon. Yes, there are groups fanning the flames of hatred everywhere. They are “terrorists” in our midst and some could be our own neighbors. DHS is correct in saying this, at least I think so. Be vigilant is a good adage.
on June 11th, 2009 at 3:40 pm
i meant brothers in arms as far as what they were fighting in the name of and the unfailing loyalty without questioning the motivations of their government, not in the specifics of their ideologies, which were almost polar opposites. Im saying that the extremist views of both, while differing in goal, had almost the same result, the only real differences in the end result being the economic stability and propaganda used to further public ignorance. In my opinion the Communists and Nationalists held equally ignorant views on the reality of their situation, though it was not really their fault, but the fault of the government propaganda machine. Because in the end both types of government were proven failures in that both allowed a corrupt group to hold all the power in a society that kept the masses blind to the destruction of their freedoms, or continued subjugation of.
on June 11th, 2009 at 3:56 pm
The comments by Laurens are being dismissed or ridiculed because contributors here do not understand the essential premise which is being proposed.
First, by way of preface, Laurens is NOT the originator of this new conception of a political spectrum. It has been floating around in extreme right circles for decades and is promoted particularly by the John Birch Society.
The fundamental underlying premise is that government is our mortal enemy. Therefore, the more government intervention in our lives, the more it controls or regulates human affairs, the less freedom exists and the more opportunity for tyranny to flourish.
Consequently, seen from this perspective, the worst violators of human freedom and dignity during the 20th century were those governments which maximized government intervention, i.e. totalitarian dictatorships — and Laurens (and other believers in this idea) don’t see much point in distinguishing between nazi-fascist versus communist ideology since they BOTH resulted in horrific crimes against humanity.
However, the REAL purpose behind this proposed new idea of a political spectrumis to create an “enemies list”.
Everything decent, honorable, moral and desirable is placed in the middle or the right side of the spectrum whereas everything that the extreme right wants us to believe is despicable, dishonorable, frightening and dangerous belongs EXCLUSIVELY upon the LEFT side of the spectrum.
Therefore, collectivists/statists of all kinds (i.e. anyone who advocates utilizing government coercion to accomplish anything in society) which consists of liberals, socialists, communists, fascists, nazis) are “the enemy” of human freedom.
on June 11th, 2009 at 4:32 pm
In my humble opinion, governmental regulation of any industry or group usually does more harm than good, and takes the control out of individuals hands and puts the power in a bureaucracy, which usually take five times the amount of time it would take on the private sector. Are you saying that government control of something ADDS to the freedom inherent in individually or corporate controlled enterprises? Please give me an example, as i am quite curious.
More often than not government control policies, while made in the name of regulation and equality, end up creating governmental monopolies that are harder to break up than private ones. The belief that politicians, left or right wing, will go uncorrupt throughout there tenure of power, is a very idealistic tenant to hold.Because if you expect the government to take care of you, unchecked, your more naive than those you accuse of thus.
on June 11th, 2009 at 4:47 pm
Glad that the SPLC was available to answer media questions and educate the public about von Brunn and his ilk. Special thanks to Heidi Bierich for being a sound and articulate voice.
Allan McConnell
president, RADAR13.com
on June 11th, 2009 at 5:02 pm
Apparently there are more political illiterates on here besides Laurens. So you think that government intervention is so terrible? Great- move to Somalia, or any number of failed states where bad ol’ government bureaucracy won’t invade your life or get up in your business in any way. Surely if government intervention is the cause of so much trouble, such places are paradise on Earth.
The fact is that there is no such thing as “government” separate from the private sector. You simply can’t have private property rights and capitalism without a state to enforce contracts and defend the owners’ rights of private property- that is the right to the fruit of YOUR labor. Because the system is class based, and involves the exploitation of the majority by a minority, there needs to be a system of organized violence to maintain the status quo- enter the state.
The thing is that the big capitalists never believe any of this BS about “government” being inherently evil. They are smart enough to understand that government is a powerful tool which they can manipulate through their greater access to the system(through lawyers, lobbyists, etc.). All of these people know that were it not for the government, they would have to somehow pay for many services essential to maintaining a healthy, minimally educated workforce, and naturally they aren’t inclined to do so.
Lastly, if you think government intervention is so horrible, you might want to ask why the US, with its neo-liberal policies and rejection of the welfare state model, is almost lowest among industrialized nations for heath care, highest for infant mortality, etc. People living in those so called “socialist” European nations work less, get FAR more for their tax dollars(Americans get missiles and aircraft carriers, and more wars), and surveys show they are far more satisfied and happy with their lives than Americans. It is also worth noting that privatization actually ends up costing the taxpayers more, because it puts a profit motive on government waste. Take a look at Halliburton and all the missing billions thrown down that money hole.
on June 11th, 2009 at 5:04 pm
I posted earlier today regarding Von Brunns’ ties to War of Baghdad dissident Captain Eric Mays.
Now it would appear that Mays himself has no problems buddying around with those who promote terrorism.
Get a load of THIS comment (followed by May’s response), posted by Von Brunn to May’s “Ghost Troop” yahoogroup,which calls for a group of “five or six well equipped martyrs” to take action against our government:
http://ca.dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/ghosttroop…
Re: Pravda Article – WTC and Bush
james von brunn wrote:
BY THE WAY, YOU’RE A VERY FINE WRITER, AMONG OTHER VIRTUES.
I’m of the opinion that only a military coup d’etat can save our once great Republic. And soon. However, a coup is doubtful as the military too has been infected by the Marxist/Liberal/Jew virus.
Perhaps we must settle for a team of Special
Forces, say six (6) well-equipped martyrs. Count me in.
jvb
http://www.holywesternempire.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I’m most obliged at your praise, Mr. Von Brunn! Writers always have their vanities, even when they’re doing military missions. For what it’s worth, I called for a military coup d’etat on the night of July 28, 2005, when the Bush Boyz tried to blow up Texas City last time.
You can find it in an article published shortly afterwards at http://www.vfvs.com/GhostTroopCaptainEricMay.html or you can listen to it as I called for it, in the second of the two interviews at http://www.cloakanddagger.de/media/Captain%20Ma…
Again, thanks for the encouragement. I’m sure that you’ve endured the same kinds of frustrations that I have in the course of your infowar, whenever it began. I’d sure like to turn the Texas City Inquest into a public tribunal for the Jewish Zionists and the Bush Boyz who took their advice and used their media like (embedded) whores. Yours, CPTMAY
on June 11th, 2009 at 5:08 pm
Reply to Freethinker:
I prefer to address the larger philosophical issue which appears in your comments (and Lauren’s):
Different types of the same thing can have materially important distinguishing features which make them incompatible with one another. For example: All humans have blood, but if you are given the wrong blood type, you die.
It is important for us to recognize materially important distinctions if we are to understand ourselves and human history correctly.
All political extremists may share common attitudes and may suffer from the same type of intellectual and moral deficiencies – but, nevertheless, they do have unique distinguishing features which render them incompatible with each other.
Consequently, they cannot be grouped together upon a political spectrum if you want to truly understand what motivates people to gravitate toward their candidates, ideas, and proposals and if you want to understand why a specific targeted audience becomes receptive to such candidates, ideas, and proposals.
Advocating government intervention in some matter is not a sufficient basis for making a decision about where one belongs upon a political spectrum.
Anybody can select ONE single criterion and then propose we elevate that ONE criterion as the single most important determinant for placement upon a political spectrum — but that artificially forces us to interpret all human behavior and human motives in a manner which distorts reality.
on June 11th, 2009 at 5:22 pm
freethinker – think about what you just wrote and where you wrote it – the next CZAR- the one Obama will appoint to oversee Free Speech, will hunt you down and put you away for such sound thinking!
Of COURSE.
It’s not about liberal vs conservative – it’s about power. Period. Always was. Call it a zillions names and get the ignoranti to blog about it ad nauseum – give them a tool called the Internet to keep them occupied and trackable – instead of marching the streets, exercising their “freedoms”…
on June 11th, 2009 at 5:34 pm
FURTHER REPLY TO LAURENS:
Having just spent a week debating this new political spectrum idea on other websites, I would suggest that Laurens consider the following factual data:
The problem with Laurens’ proposed political spectrum is that persons (or organizations) which Laurens claims advance “extreme leftist” ideas — such as Hitler admirers — are often people who associate themselves with RIGHT WING causes, organizations, and ideas.
For example, many so-called “conservatives” or “patriot” groups recommend the writings of Eustace Mullins — especially his publications on the Federal Reserve—which Mr. Von Brunn almost certainly read, believed and recommended on his website.
Eustace Mullins is cited by the “patriot movement” as an indisputable “conservative” or right-winger. But Mullins wrote an article entitled “Hitler: An Appreciation” which was published in a 1952 issue of the National Renaissance Party Bulletin (an avowed fascist group!) — but that doesn’t stop gazillions of right-wingers from recommending him as a reliable source of information!
To see Mullins’ article and further details about the neo-fascist groups in the U.S. he was connected to, see this 1954 report by the House Committee On Un-American Activities:
http://debs.indstate.edu/u588n4_1954.pdf
Three additional problems with Lauren’s ideas:
(1) when you research the political campaigns of neo-nazis who have run for political office, their themes, ideas and policy proposals are predominantly RIGHT-WING — and in fact, the support they subsequently get (money, endorsements, publicity, votes, etc.) comes NOT from the LEFT, but from the RIGHT side of the political spectrum.
(2) when you review the recommended reading lists of neo-nazi groups, they often recommend and sell many of the SAME publications as the Birch Society or other extreme right-wing/conservative/patriot groups
.
For example: the American Nazi Party used to recommend and sell John Stormer’s classic conspiracy book, “None Dare Call It Treason”—which the JBS effusively praised and sold in all its bookstores! [Stormer, a Goldwater supporter, was a Republican Party official in Missouri!]
(3) Furthermore, the founder and leader of the American Nazi Party (George Lincoln Rockwell) admired prominent right-wing heroes such as Sen. Joseph McCarthy. In fact, in 1952, Rockwell publicly supported Gen. Douglas MacArthur for President and he organized a pro-MacArthur rally in San Diego.
Nevertheless, Laurens wants us to believe that Rockwell belongs on the extreme left side of a political spectrum!
In the 1960′s, Rockwell invited John Birch Society members to attend a meeting of his in Dallas — because he thought they offered fertile ground for recruitment.
If Rockwell was truly “extreme left” why would he solicit support from the extreme right?
Last, but not least, the political spectrum advocated by Laurens has no way to explain the following:
ROBERT SURREY (hereafter RS)
RS and his wife (Mary) of Dallas TX were both Birch Society members. They both were employed by fellow Bircher, Gen. Edwin A. Walker of Dallas. Mary was Walker’s personal secretary and from 1961-1964 RS was Walker’s chief aide. RS also worked on Walker’s campaign for Governor of Texas.
In 1963, RS and Walker entered into a partnership as co-owners of American Eagle Publishing Company. The company’s pamphlets were stored at Walker’s home. They published all the standard Birch Society arguments against the UN, against Council on Foreign Relations, against the Warren Court, and against the policies and programs of Presidents John Kennedy and Lyndon Johnson.
In November 1963, RS authored the “Wanted For Treason” handbill (re: JFK) which was circulated on the streets of Dallas a few days before Kennedy’s assassination.
RS also was President and Chairman of the Board of United White Christians Majority. The group was conceived by George Lincoln Rockwell to obtain funds for the American Nazi Party from persons who might otherwise not wish to be directly associated with the ANP (in short, it was an ANP front-group). In May 1968, RS became Southwest Regional Coordinator and National Business Manager for the American Nazi Party.
Many other Birch Society members or supporters involved themselves in neo-nazi activities and/or promoted neo-nazi themes including anti-zionism arguments.
For example, here are some “graduates” from the Birch Society:
George P. Dietz (Liberty Bell Publications—the largest U.S. distributor of neo-nazi literature in the U.S. during the 1960′s-1990′s), Tom Metzger (White Aryan Resistance), William P. Gale (Ministry of Christ Church), Ben Klassen (Church of the Creator), Kevin Strom (National Vanguard), Willis Carto (Liberty Lobby and founder of holocaust denial group, Institute For Historical Review), Gordon Kahl (Posse Comitatus) Robert J. Mathews (who created The Order and commited bank and armored car robberies in order to finance Aryan Nations and other similar white supremacist and neo-nazi enterprises) and William Pierce (Pierce joined the American Nazi Party in 1966 and was Editor of National Socialist World, the quarterly journal of Rockwell’s World Union of National Socialists. In 1968, Pierce became second in command of the National Socialist White People’s Party (formerly known as American Nazi Party) but he left in July 1970 to work for Willis Carto’s National Youth Alliance which he wrested away from Carto in 1974 and re-named it National Alliance.)
As all of the above data should make obvious, EVEN IF your ideology CLAIMS to be “anti-communist” or “anti-Marxist”, or “anti-collectivist” [which Laurens thinks places you on the OPPOSITE side of the spectrum from nazism-fascism-communism] nevertheless that means nothing in terms of
* where you seek support,
* whom you admire,
* what authors and publications you recommend as reliable, or
* what political alliances you are prepared to make
on June 11th, 2009 at 9:26 pm
“never cease to be amazed at how all of you leftist loonies manage to tie the acts of two criminals to anything that Hannity, Rush, Savage, etal, say on the radio.”
Just like we were able to tie the acts of 19 highjackers on Sept. 11, 2001 to the hate speech of Osama bin Laden. The arguments that these Hannity/LimBa’al/Savage are making to attempt to distance themselves from these murderers, such as saying that they didn’t kill anybody, we didn’t enable this, is the same reasons that you can use, should you choose to do so, defend bin Laden. They can say, “bin Lauden never lilled anyone, either.” Thing is, hate speech is hate speech – if you get on the air and paint your target in colors of evil and dehumanize them, you give some hate-monger out there liscence to murder because they reason that their target and not human; case closed. Those on the FAUX News side are just as guilty as bin Laden, they fan the flames of hate then sit back and watch; the only difference is that bin Laden doesn’t try to distance himself from the act afterwards, so he’s the more honest of them.
on June 11th, 2009 at 9:50 pm
Just wanna add one thing –
Hannity has been at it since before the inauguration, trying to conflate our President with fascism (which shows he has no idea what fascism is). Fascist is the word he actually uses to describe our President. Chances are that one of his loony listeners will try to make an attempt on President Obama’s life or (God, please forbid) actually assassinate him. What do you want to bet that Hannity will try to be dishonest to the point of saying, “Not me, I never used the word fascist.”
Thing is, Hannity knows he is using a roundabout way of telling his ghouls to go out and murder our President and he’s doing it purposely and deliberately, and when it is done he will lie about it and say, “Oops! Not my fault!”
on June 11th, 2009 at 9:50 pm
Right on, Ruslan Amirkhanov, I totally agree with most of what you have to say!
on June 11th, 2009 at 11:08 pm
I agree, Ruslan has a very good grasp on the facts there. I would add that in a Jeffersonian democracy like the US is supposed to be, the government isn’t evil because the governement is us, We the People, those first 3 words in our founding document, implied to be the “FROM” line in the letter to the government (IE – a letter from ourselves to ourselves) that the Constitution is. If you beleive that the people of the US are evil, then you need to leave, I don’t care where, just go.
on June 12th, 2009 at 6:21 am
It seems some of our conservatives still don’t understand how the speech of O’Reilly, Hannity, Savage, et al is related to events like this. Allen has done a good job trying to explain, and I should add something as well.
It’s really quite simple: Beck, Hannity, Limbaugh, and their ilk have been openly preaching since before the election that Obama’s victory spells “Marxism, Fascism,” and more or less destruction of America. They have implied that white males will now be persecuted more than ever. These ideas have been expressed at many of those idiotic tea party protests back in April. These pundits constantly spread fear, and when you listen to or watch conservative followers talk politics the underlying emotion one notices is fear- of foreigners, terrorism, and political terms they don’t understand, like Marxism.
Yet among them are people that, having believed and decided that America is indeed on its last legs, they are not going to sit down and take it. They are going to do something about it, and go out in a blaze of glory. If any of you conservatives still think that these people don’t get their ideas from pundits, look up the confession letter of the guy who shot up that Unitarian Church. All he did was take the rantings of people like Coulter and Savage to their logical conclusion. Indeed, if “liberals” are treasonous scum who are deliberately destroying one’s nation, wouldn’t it justify shooting them?
on June 12th, 2009 at 9:32 am
Allen, get over it. Obama is president and he is doing a great job. Sometimes you dont get what you want.
on June 12th, 2009 at 12:33 pm
There can be no democracy when 90% of the wealth is controlled by the smallest part of the population.
on June 12th, 2009 at 2:54 pm
“freethinker”-”my point is thus that right wing extremists and left wing extremists are basically brothers in arms, in that if you happen to disagree with their ideology or, god forbid, happen to be the person they see as the “enemy”, they will more often than not wish to see your death, whether they verbalize it or not.”
Maybe I’ve got selective memory, but it seems to always be the right wing extremists doing and justifying the killings. Are there examples of left wing extremists urging or causing the death of those who don’t agree with them?
on June 12th, 2009 at 3:46 pm
I don’t understand why we have a Federally funded museum in DC devoted to an event that happened in Europe. I want to know why there’s no Native American Holocaust Museum or a Slavery Holocaust Museum in DC.
on June 12th, 2009 at 4:54 pm
There is a publicly funded anti-Communist museum in DC. And as for the Slavery museum, did you check?
on June 12th, 2009 at 4:55 pm
ari,
I don’t understand where you get the idea that I was bashing Obama. I, too, am very glad that we finally got the right man in the Oval Office.
Go back and read what I wrote VERY carefully.
on June 12th, 2009 at 5:59 pm
Rush Limbaugh, among others, has asserted that Von Brunn’s beliefs and actions were evidence of his “left-wing” ideology.
For anyone interested in learning more about the ACTUAL extreme right connections and ideas which motivated James W. Von Brunn, see my new report which is based, primarily, upon first-time-released FBI files and documents:
http://ernie1241.googlepages.com/vonbrunn
on June 12th, 2009 at 8:14 pm
To Ruslan:
There’s no National Slavery Museum in DC.
on June 16th, 2009 at 11:26 am
I remember when Alberto “VO5″ Gonzales claimed that there was NO domestic terrorism problem in the US.
We now know, thanks to a newly-released report from the Obama administration, that domestic terrorism is alive and well and living right next door to you.
And they’re bigger than the foreign terrorists. They’re sick psychotic freaks, well armed, and they’re already HERE.
Alberto Gonzales chose to IGNORE them because they were his boss’s political BASE.
The Republican party actively courts these sick demented domestic terrorist groups for votes.
on June 16th, 2009 at 11:30 am
If Junkie Rush Limbaugh thinks this sick twisted Reich Wingnut was a leftie, all that proves is that Junkie Rush Limbaugh is still using drugs.
These guys are NOT lefties. No way. No how.
Junkie Rush Limbaugh is using the Rovian propaganda technique of “projection”. He’s projecting this Right Wing problem onto the Left. This tactic is used to defuse your side’s worst weaknesses by accusing the other side of them.
Junkie Rush has already gone DEAF from taking too much hillbilly heroin. Now, it appears he also has BRAIN DAMAGE from taking too many Oxycontin.
on September 18th, 2009 at 8:39 am
The Fascism argument overlooks the important fact that the real distinct feature of Fascism is its totalitarian nature – a Fascist regime could be ‘progressive’ or ‘conservative’, it really doesn’t matter. In fact, definitions of Fascism often mention both a desire for the ‘new’, e.g., new technology, new theories on anything from social issues to philosophy, while at the same time defining it as a need to recapture some former greatness.
on October 12th, 2009 at 6:05 am
It’s the best solution: SHUT DOWN all kind Jewish Brainwashing Museum etc mind control machineries of the ZOGgy-system-industries! It’s beetr no any one be scared or missed his life like Hero von Braun! Down with Zionist Imperialism!
on October 12th, 2009 at 2:55 pm
Lucy Morgenthau, You seem to be one very “Twisted Sister”. Your comment is crazy to say the least. However, you have the right to your views and so far no one has asked that your comment be deleted.
on July 1st, 2011 at 2:17 pm
good grief what is happening to this world1?!?!!
on March 23rd, 2013 at 7:40 pm
Von Brunn painted a picture for the infamous Ben Klassen. Who was the founder of the religion that became known as the repellent anti-semitic, racist and homophobic hate group, the Creativity Alliance – aka the Church of Creativity. The picture held pride of place at their North Carolina HateQuarters and can be seen in videos from the late 80′s. Will the SPLC ever do anything to stop this Creativity Alliance hategroup?