Hatewatch Tweets
Hatewatch is managed by the staff of the Intelligence Report, an investigative magazine published by the Alabama-based civil rights group Southern Poverty Law Center.
Why I Urged CNN to Take Dobbs Off the Air
Yesterday, I went on the “O’Reilly Factor” to discuss our call for CNN to take Lou Dobbs off the air for Dobbs’ latest conspiracy-mongering. Bill O’Reilly said we shouldn’t take Dobbs too seriously. After all, Bill said, it’s all just for ratings. But in our view, the matter is an extremely serious one, because the ratings game Dobbs is playing is very dangerous.
For years, Dobbs has been trading in baseless, conspiratorial claims that originate on the radical right. Most recently, he’s given credence to the utterly discredited claim that President Obama was not born in this country and so is not eligible to be president. It’s a claim that’s been debunked many times over. CNN’s legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin called it “a joke.” But it’s a claim that continues to circulate in radical right circles. James von Brunn, the neo-Nazi accused of killing the Holocaust Memorial Museum guard, for example, promoted the claim on the Internet and berated the media for not taking it seriously.
The reason Dobbs’ ratings game is so dangerous is that there is a segment in our society that is not ready to accept the fact that we have a black man in the White House. At the extreme, people are striking out, killing others as a result. In Okaloosa, Fla., two sheriff’s deputies were murdered by a man who was upset over Obama’s election. In Pittsburgh, three police officers were murdered by a man who was convinced that Obama was going to ban guns. The Secret Service has reported a record number of threats against the new president. By knowingly trading in unsubstantiated, conspiratorial claims that undermine the president’s legitimacy, Dobbs is stirring a boiling pot. Just like he’s been stirring the pot of anti-Latino rage for years.
Don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying that Dobbs bears legal responsibility for the right-wing violence that has greeted the Obama presidency. But I am saying that Dobbs bears a degree of moral responsibility for pouring fuel, in the form of baseless accusations, on a raging fire. Because Dobbs can’t help himself – and because he has a history of promoting false claims that originate on the radical right – we have called on CNN to remove him from the air. Merely telling those who are offended to turn the channel is not going to solve the problem.
None of this is about censorship or infringing on Dobbs’ First Amendment rights. The First Amendment protects us all against government censorship; it doesn’t stop news organizations from exercising editorial judgment. We’re not asking the government to arrest Dobbs or force CNN to cancel his show. Instead, we’re asking CNN, a private organization, to live up to its own standards of journalistic integrity and take Dobbs off the air. Dobbs can continue spreading propaganda on every street corner in the America. But CNN has no more of an obligation to allow him to appear on its network than it has an obligation to let me do the same. The fact that Dobbs may have a loyal audience is a poor excuse to allow him to spread misinformation, especially for a network that bills itself as “the most trusted name in news.”
On his show, O’Reilly bet me that CNN would not take Dobbs off the air. He’s banking on the apathy of the public and the imperviousness of a powerful network like CNN to public complaints. I’d like to have a more optimistic view of both the public and CNN. If enough people care, if enough people write to CNN, it can make a difference.
on July 28th, 2009 at 6:30 pm
I totally agree
on July 28th, 2009 at 8:38 pm
I think there’s something wrong with the comment box on the linked post. Here is mine: CNN has the ethical duty to take an obvious racist and hate monger off of their channel. If CNN does not do this, any violence against those who count Dobbs as their voice will be laid firmly at the feet of the people who chose something as temporary as ratings over something as important as right conduct.
on July 29th, 2009 at 3:23 am
I went to CNN and registered my complaint about Dobbs. I hope CNN gets the message.
As I have been researching the right-wing propaganda against immigrants in general and Hispanics in particular, I would make the following suggestion. We should call Fox News the Clan News and conservative talk radio like Rush’s Clan Radio. It is not only more accurate, but it sounds right.
on July 29th, 2009 at 4:24 am
Imagine this scenario- A service worker speaks rudely and offensively to customers, or more accurately, lies to them repeatedly. Finally some customers complain to the manager. The manager fires the worker.
This is essentially the same situation. No free speech rights are being violated. If someone has a problem with the fact that owners of the press may fire people at will, then you have a problem with capitalism.
on July 29th, 2009 at 8:35 am
I agree; get Dobb’s off the air; he’s a pompous trouble maker… I’m appalled that CNN let’s him speak in the first place. He should go to Fox where he belongs! He has single handedly made me stop watching CNN!
on July 29th, 2009 at 9:01 am
Mr. Cohen , thank you for taking the time to write specifically WHY the SPLC takes issue with Dobbs & wants him off the air.
I think that it’s critical that people take the time and read what Mr. Cohen has to say regarding the 1st Amendment issues and the SPLC’s position on Dobbs.
Concepts of exercising editorial judgment & government censorship are not the same.
If anyone would want to take the time & read the other (huge & off topic) discussion on Dobbs, they would see an actual illustration of the issue. It rambles & rambles & then degenerates in pathological stupidity about (you guessed it) “THE JEWS”.
The one thing I have noticed about most every conspiracy agenda is that as it travels along, the end is always the same….. The same thing happened to the “911 conspiracy” believers.
When the discussion ends with Jews & expressions like “Vampire”: there is a real question of whether to laugh or cry.
on July 29th, 2009 at 9:14 am
I wonder whether Dobb’s conservative defenders – those who would accuse SPLC of trying to “censor” the man – will now reconsider their crusade to get Dan Rather axed for his “60 Minutes” report on George W. Bush’s questionable national guard service.
on July 29th, 2009 at 9:23 am
If they’re going to leave Dobbs on the air as O’Reilly suggests (and particularly if for the reasons he predicts), then CNN needs to take two steps. First would be to make it clear that his show is at least as much opinion and entertainment as news – a step Fox News refuses to take. Second would be to distance themselves from his opinions by making it painfully clear that they do not in any way endorse his opinions – however, I don’t see how you can’t “endorse” an opinion if you’re willing to pay the person to spew it from your network. So really, they’re stuck admitting that either it’s sick – and racist – entertainment that they’ve been quietly endorsing OR they’ve got to fire him as inappropriate entertainment that they don’t endorse.
on July 29th, 2009 at 9:26 am
Perhaps writing to CNN will have the effect, you want – Dobbs off the air. If his ratings slip down, for sure he will go off the air.
If letters of concern, in CNN’s experience, do not impact the number of viewers significantly – Dobbs stay on the air.
If Dobbs goes off the air for either reason, he will be replaced with someone who appeals to the market CNN is targeting.
I don’t watch him, I don’t watch CNN, or Fox News.
I do not remain silent when someone espouses views similar to Dobbs’ in my presence.
I share with them my beliefs and facts that support a welcoming and civil community.
on July 29th, 2009 at 10:20 am
My husband and I have switched to MSNBC. We could not take CNN any more.Don’t stop with Lou Dobbs. What about zombie Larry King? Anderson Cooper became a sell-out. It’s not news any more on CNN.
on July 29th, 2009 at 10:27 am
The other is presenting a well-reasoned argument for taking Dobbs off the air. There is no compelling public good to keep this baseless propaganda going, and baseless comments about the president’s birth certificate do nothing more than stir up hate.
on July 29th, 2009 at 10:55 am
Lou Dobbs should be removed or given an editorial type of show. News needs to be delivered without bias and opinion. I doubt this will happen as most news is not delivered impartially. I do not watch CNN or any other cable station, but I have seen Dobbs in action from time to time.
on July 29th, 2009 at 11:19 am
I agree. Lou Dobss needs to go!
on July 29th, 2009 at 12:55 pm
All First Amendment scholars can cite numerous instances in which speech may be restricted or even prosecuted. The notion of Free Speech in this country is widely misunderstood. While Dobbs’ many verbal assaults and offences may not meet any Constitutional tests for allowing censorship (Fighting Words; Inciting Violence; Disturbing the Safety of a Group) it is beyond dispute that he incites hatred and bigotry, seldom relies upon facts in his spittle-spewed pronouncements. It isn’t sufficient for CNN to restrict this speech to an “editorial hole.” Conscience dictates that they, as “publishers” of this information determine that their reputation is irrevocably harmed by hate speech and remove the man from their employ. Dobbs never “misspeaks.” He misthinks. I’d have fired his hate-mongering ass a long time ago. Anyone with any sense of of right and wrong would have.
on July 29th, 2009 at 1:41 pm
Lou Dobbs has become increasingly bigotted since I began watching his show some two years ago. Then, he seemed to be a reasonable man with some concerns that he shared about our obviously terrible immigration system, but now he seems downright scary. CNN should not tolerate lies being told on their airwaves. Shame on Lou Dobbs and CNN!!
on July 29th, 2009 at 1:51 pm
I disagree. Why does the subject of Obama’s citizenship cause such alarm and ridicule among his supporters?
The fact is that the Obama has not actually provided proof that he was born in Hawaii. The “certificate of live birth” that has been touted as proof is not the legitimate long-form birth certificate that would prove once and for all that he was born in Hawaii.
All Obama has to do to make this go away is to request a copy his long-form birth certificate and post it for everyone to see. (The paper birth certificates were not destroyed as the president of CNN suggested).
Because of his refusal to provide his birth certificate, which McCain did when his legitimacy was questioned, only makes one even more suspicious. What does Obama have to hide?
on July 29th, 2009 at 2:57 pm
Charles, he did prove he was born in Hawaii. You would have known that had you actually checked instead of browsing conspiracy websites.
Let me put it this way, and this is the only time I’ll be nice about it(and I am not, nor have I ever been, and Obama supporter BTW):
What you claim about the “certificate of live birth”- are you a person qualified to make that statement? Were you ever so concerned about birth certificates and the law before this issue came up? If you are honest, I’m betting no. You saw someone you agree with politically make that claim, and now you are repeating it. It’s just like all the people that claim that thermate was found in the WTC tower wreckage, when in fact it wasn’t. Maybe instead of accepting such claims, you should do some research.
Also, that was a pretty neat trick how the two major Hawaiian newspapers carried his birth announcement back then huh? And how the governor, the and the state health secretary, as well as workers from Factcheck.org all certified the certificate right?
on July 29th, 2009 at 2:59 pm
I say let him stay. He is not one to reason with and will one day hang himself.
on July 29th, 2009 at 3:00 pm
We are so over this whole birth certificate thing. We have so many issues to confront. Why do we not go back and care to prosecute GWB for his war crimes?
on July 29th, 2009 at 3:02 pm
Charles, please, you have bought into this nonsense? Why isn’t the regular (not “long-form”? what is that anyway? do you know or are you just repeating what you’ve heard?) birth certificate which has been available to the public since mid 1988 (http://i305.photobucket.com/al.....ficate.jpg) not good enough? And please don’t say it’s a forgery, that allegation has been dismissed in more than one court.
Besides, I’ve been wondering, what if by some far out chance Mr. Obama was not born in the U.S.? What then? He gets impeached? Then you’ve got Joe Biden for a President. Now that’s kind of scary.
Back on topic, I am contacting CNN about Lou Dobbs to help show Mr. O’Reilly the public is not as apathetic as he believes.
on July 29th, 2009 at 3:02 pm
You know what’s really funny- if Obama was born in Kenya, then there would be records there, and someone would dig it up. Otherwise someone could try. How many birther advocates are chomping at the bit to go to Kenya and find it? Many of them have the means.
on July 29th, 2009 at 3:18 pm
It stands to reason. I live in San Diego County, California where yesterday they sentenced a man for sending internet death threats to then-senator Obama last fall. It’s just an example of the post election hostility and ignorance.
on July 29th, 2009 at 5:59 pm
CNN should monitor their own programs and talk show hosts. We who have the benefit of rational thought can just turn it off, but those who do not have benefit of rational thought will not turn it of and may take it seriously and some will even use this vitriole-spewing Dobbs as a reason to act on their hatred. Please, CNN, do the responsible thing.
on July 29th, 2009 at 6:44 pm
Already done Richard. I like your point about this not relating to censorship at all, but to civic responsibility. It is no longer acceptable to be apathetic.
on July 29th, 2009 at 11:24 pm
Before I commented on your site I had already written to Jon Klein at CNN about Lou Dobbs. Here’s what I said: ” We all treasure freedom of speech, but Lou Dobbs (and apparently you, too) have forgotten that with freedom comes responsibility. It is completely irresponsible for Dobbs to promote political conspiracy theories designed to hurt the president of the United States. Racism is inappropriate and irresponsible. Lou Dobbs incites disorder and hatred with his blatant racism. Please reassign Lou Dobbs to a five-minute world weather report where he could do little harm. Better yet, fire him. Then think for a few minutes about your own responsibility to the decent citizens of our bedraggled country.” Seconds later I discovered that CNN bounced my mail. Apparently the 15,000 letters they received were all they could stomach.
on July 30th, 2009 at 1:23 am
Lou Dobbs should be fired because he doesn’t appear to have journalistic integrity. Doesn’t he check the facts of the stories that he puts on the air? I am not sure how anyone can now listen to a guy who seems to believe that a right wing fringe group making unsubstantiated and apparently fabricated allegations is a reputable source? CNN calls it’s own integrity into question by not disciplining Dobbs and apologizing for misleading its viewers.
on July 30th, 2009 at 1:35 am
“Why do we not go back and care to prosecute GWB for his war crimes?”
Because Reid and Pelosi made a deal not to.
They’re ALL crooks. GOP, DEM, doesn’t matter.
on July 30th, 2009 at 1:39 am
The lunatic fringe is taking over the Republican Party. They are kissing a junkie’s fat butt.
I never did like the Republicans, so I’ll be happy to see them self-destruct.
on July 30th, 2009 at 8:57 am
“The “certificate of live birth” that has been touted as proof is not the legitimate long-form birth certificate that would prove once and for all that he was born in Hawaii.” — some birther nutcase.
No, but it IS legal proof that he WAS born in Hawaii. That certificate summarizes the facts on the original. It is an official state document for certifying birth.
I got one of these when I applied for my passport. The short form.
The feds had no problem accepting it. It’s a legal document
I suppose you Reich Wingnuts won’t be happy until Obama shows you the original so you can all laugh at his little baby footprints.
You birthers are INSANE.
on July 30th, 2009 at 9:17 am
FactCheck.org is part of the Annenberg Foundation. Obama once was on the board or chaired a committee for them. To ask FactCheck.org to verify Obama is almost like asking Obama to verify Obama.
on July 30th, 2009 at 9:59 am
I have to watch Comedy Central to get any real news these days. Jon Stuart of that Daily Show did an excellent send up of Lou Dobbs. I don’t mean to make light of his extremist views but I believe he should be discredited by all means. If comedy works, then great. CNN has already discredited Lou Dobbs with the airing of the Kitty Pilgrim segment about Obama’s legitimate birth certificate. As a journalist Dobbs should present both sides of a story—for example, the fact that one of the GOP strategists for the 08 election has said that in all his research he never found information that Obama was born anywhere else other than Hawaii.
on July 30th, 2009 at 10:23 am
Birthers are not after “facts”. The facts have been made clear and are only in dispute by those who cannot reconcile themselves to having a black president.
on July 30th, 2009 at 10:49 am
While I find Dobbs pretty repugnant, why was Richard Cohen appearing on Bill O’Reilly’s equally deplorable show?
on July 30th, 2009 at 10:59 am
Get Dobbs off the air. It has taken a long time for the US to get a a black president. Obama is a rock compared to the pebbles Dobbs!
on July 30th, 2009 at 11:14 am
I think SPLCenter is wasting its time. Dobbs brings up a lot of controversial issues, to be sure, but to suggest that he is fueling hysteria and hate (that word again), …. well, you might as well be going after the mainstream media for reporting anything about Obama, his views for example, that might inspire a few deranged, insular-minded ignorant…. you get the picture.
I do believe that Dobbs has been consistently misread. He has consistently stated he believes Obama is a US Citizen (but that’s ignored), and he has consistently repeated regarding immigration issues that is it illegal immigration he finds troubling (but SPLC and others consistently blur the legal-illegal distinction and declare him and others “Anti-Immigrant”).
On the birther issue, he had a congressman on recently who was sponsoring a bill that would, going forward, make it a requirement that candidates for President present a birth certificate. But here, too, he was accused of nurturing “hate.” Good grief.
If you don’t want to appear extremist as an organization, you should not be extremist in your approach.
on July 30th, 2009 at 11:14 am
As offensive as SPLC may find Lou Dobbs, it is more dangerous to have him removed from CNN than for him to left on the program. Had Richard Cohen submitted legitimate and verifiable disputation of Dobb’s allegations then an average thinking person could make a better decision. While I aprreciate the mission of Cohen and the SPLC, I find it disturbing that — if you carefully screen their opines — they have passed from providing the public with useful and concrete information into Though Police. That, my friends, is the epitome of sliding into the abyss of hate.
on July 30th, 2009 at 11:18 am
I watch CNN (and MSNBC) a lot, but I started switching channels during horsey-smile (who made those teeth for him?) Lou Dobbs’ shows a long time ago. He has had no credibility with me for a long time.
on July 30th, 2009 at 11:18 am
I understand the concern but good grief to go onto Fox News to say anything about racist comments is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. Lou Dobbs is a baby Jesus compared to the hate that Fox News and Bill O’reilly spews. The “media” is a part of the problem. It’s not the reporters, it’s the owners! I wrote CNN and I hope it works.
on July 30th, 2009 at 11:24 am
I am 73 years old and still remember when there were Republicans I respected. A few years ago I also respected, though not always agreeing with, Mr. Dobbs. No longer.
When Mr. Dobbs can produce a valid birth certificate proving that Pres. Obama was born in a country other than the USA he will become a reporter rather than a spreader of garbage.
on July 30th, 2009 at 11:45 am
As offensive and hateful as Lou Dobb’s comments and ideas are, it is pathetic to see CNN not responding to this public outcry and choosing to remain quiet on the matter. I saw the 60 Minute interview awhile ago and the thing that really stuck out as the oddest is that he is married to a Mexican woman and his in-laws who were born in Mexico live with them and they don’t see him as racist? Weird but true. I have also switched to MSNBC because I can no longer tolerate the bigotry he presents.
on July 30th, 2009 at 11:47 am
One of the main litigants in this case is a black man-Alan Keyes. Keyes has sued Obama and Occidental College…Obama is spending a lot of money to prevent legal discovery…
Keyes is backed by a majority of white Republicans, who would welcome a Keyes presidency ( which will never happen).
The so called ‘birthers’ want to deal in facts- this is proved by the fact that they are trying to get this into court. Using race or guilt by association to defend Obama is just avoiding the issue.
on July 30th, 2009 at 11:56 am
To Snorlax:
You don’t have to actually be born in Hawaii to obtain a “certificate of live birth”. Check the facts for yourself.
on July 30th, 2009 at 12:24 pm
I’d like to think of myself as a good democrat, as someone who is usually opposed to right wing craziness of the sort opposed by the SPLC…
but in this case I cannot go along with this call to shut down opinions and get people thrown off the air. It reminds me of fundamentalist christians going after tv shows they don’t like, or how during the days after 9-11, republicans used to go after any media figure that didn’t go along with the patriotic fever that the country was gripped by.
Of course this birther stuff is nonsense. No argument there. But frankly, I like hearing about this stuff. I like hearing ALL political opinions. I wish there was MORE diversity of opinion on cable news, not less. And this includes the crazy stuff. A lot of “crazy opinions” end up being mainstream someday.
Again, I’m not defending birther stuff at all, it’s laughable, but I can’t get behind a left-leaning “civil rights” group that is going around trying to silence voices it disagrees with. The SPLC should be demanding equal time on CNN to counter the birther nonsense, or lobbying for a show hosted by a progressive pundit – and not arguing for less opinions.
on July 30th, 2009 at 12:24 pm
a few investigators have attempted to dig for records in Kenya…they were very aggressively thwarted by Kenyan authorities.
on July 30th, 2009 at 12:28 pm
I am amazed how this issue has latched itself on the hull of America’s voyage toward hope like a limpet and will not go away.
on July 30th, 2009 at 12:32 pm
O’Reilly FACTOR………. Really? I thought he just stalked her and talked dirty to her over the phone.
So now the perverts are defending the bigots?
Neither one of them should have a soapbox to stand on.
on July 30th, 2009 at 12:39 pm
I was always taught that “Freedom of Speech” is there for us all, but that the use of it is subject to repercussions in the private world. Dobbs is responsible for what he says and his firing would NOT be censorship at all, but merely the repercussion of spreading lies in an industry that supposedly promotes itself as a source of truth.
on July 30th, 2009 at 12:57 pm
Your site is racist .Just because Obamas skin tone is darker does not make him a’black man’,after all his mother is white and your doing the stereotyping.
on July 30th, 2009 at 1:11 pm
To Jason:
Right on!
on July 30th, 2009 at 1:14 pm
To Carla:
How is being anti-illegal immigration being racist? It doesn’t matter what race they are. An illegal immigrant is an illegal immigrant.
on July 30th, 2009 at 1:34 pm
The essay at the top of this page by RC did not refute any specific claim.. Guilt by association and “racism” was used to club Dobbs.
This attempt to silence a voice by using sweeping statements, tangential arguments… and not specifics… to bolster claims- is shameful.
The racist charge…has become a cult- like obsession; and its use is intended to muzzle legit debate, as it has nothing to do with the specifics of any of the court cases involving the birth issue.
on July 30th, 2009 at 1:36 pm
Dobbs has every right to raise the question. There is absolutely nothing racist about it. It is a question of eligibility. Apparently the left wing and the SPLC are against free speech. The full legal birth certificate (with attending physcian) has never been released (The MSM says it has, but it hasn’t).
on July 30th, 2009 at 1:38 pm
Lou Dobbs wife is Mexican-born…and her Mexican parents live with them here. Dobbs is raising a part Mexican family…
on July 30th, 2009 at 2:09 pm
Liberals and conservatives alike are highly selective in what speech they would protect and what they would censor. When Bill Maher was fired by ABC for calling George W. Bush the real coward of 9/11, liberals cried, “Foul!” despite the fact that there was no evidence that Bush was not doing what any president would do – listen to the Secret Service when they are doing their job. Now, many of the same liberals now want Lou Dobbs fired for saying something equally untrue and comical about Barack Obama.
Instead of wasting all this time and blood-pressure medication on Dobbs’s mental illness, why not turn up the heat on President Obama over his domestic spying on the peace movement and escalation of the war in Afghanistan?
on July 30th, 2009 at 3:16 pm
Charles said,
“You don’t have to actually be born in Hawaii to obtain a ‘certificate of live birth’. Check the facts for yourself.”
Nope – you just have to be born there to have one that says “born in Honolulu…”
on July 30th, 2009 at 4:36 pm
To Charles:
Speaking against illegal immigration is free speech, however speech that is inflammatory has provoked attacks against legal US citizens, and residents. Is this our nation’s ideal? I worked in Saudi Arabia and once six of us; all different, lined up and asked a British citizen, “Which of us are American citizens?” He picked only me. The correct answer? In glee we shouted, “We all are!” What a great country!
on July 30th, 2009 at 4:38 pm
I would love to see Dan Rather come back vindicated and take Dobbs away from the camera. Dobbs should be doing sportscasting or fishing shows. If Michael Vick can play ball again, Rather can cast news.
on July 30th, 2009 at 5:36 pm
Let Lou Dobbs say anything he wants. Let Bill O’Reilly say anything he wants. Let Rush Limbaugh say anything he wants. My point is: Don’t watch or listen to any news purveyor if you don’t want to, and they will soon be off the air if enough people share your opinion of their lousy presentations. I don’t care what any one “reporter” says on any network. I do my own research, form my opinions based on facts, and-personally-have little respect for either CNN or Fox. Back to the original case in point: Obama is our President, not just the President of the people who believe he was born in the U.S.. Live with that!
on July 30th, 2009 at 5:59 pm
Alan Keyes has about as much credibility as those republicans who room at C Street. Obama’s mother was born i Kansas. A newspaper in Hawaiian newspaper has shown the annoucement of his birth. End of story, end of birthers, unless they would like to look into John McCain’s birth place in Panama.
Dobbs does not belong on our airwaves
on July 30th, 2009 at 10:36 pm
Rock, if describing the President as black is racist than Obama himself must be a racist as I have seen and heard him describing himself as a black man many times.
As to Dobbs, if enough people do as I did and stop watching the program it will show in the ratings and he will be gone. The sponsors could also quit sponsoring him.
on July 31st, 2009 at 8:07 am
To William Walsh:
Most of the time speech that is considered inflammatory is in the ear ot the hearer.
on July 31st, 2009 at 9:55 am
Lou Dobbs is a disappointment and getting of track on what he stood for. I am not sure anymore on what side he is on and will stop watching him.
The negative screaming against Obama is a typical right wing action in order to deminish his popularity.
Republican motto is simple: If you have nothing good to say about the man go for his throat.
What is this republican rethoric about we like to help him?
I finally unserstand what CON-SERVATIVE stands for. “CON”……
on July 31st, 2009 at 10:04 am
The SPLC is an organization that has, fortunately, outlived it’s usefulness. Racism in American is almost dead. We even elected a black president, and yes, I voted for him.
You however don’t seem to have got that message. Your labeling of those of us that oppose illegal immigration as racist and hateful is just plain wrong. Being anti-illegal immigration is not anti-Latino. Most of us would have the same level of opposition if Canadians were invading from the North. The fact is that we have 12-20 million invaders that have snuck across our border, found illegal employment, committed a litany of crimes and depressed our standard of living. Many Americans have been displaced from their jobs. Many have died from crimes and illegal driving (uninsured and untrained). I don’t care what color they are, I want these crimes stopped.
And for that, I and others who share my opinion are labeled by you and other race baiters as racist. I see that there is lots of profit in the race baiting game.
So are we supposed to ignore the illegals just because they happen to be mostly Hispanic? That sounds racist to me!
Lou Dobbs is NOT a racist. NumbersUSA is NOT a racist organization. FAIR, CIS, NOT racist! Anti illegal immigration, yes. Racist, no.
You are spreading lies and defaming these people and organizations just because we happen to disagree with your opinion. Bush taught you well.
on July 31st, 2009 at 11:57 am
I wrote to CNN protesting Dobbs’ use of rumor and speculation and passing it off as “news”. I received a generic reply “we value your comments…” with no indication that anyone at that organization even knew the subject of my email. It was the functional equivalent of the well-known “bug letter”. It is apparent that correspondence received by CNN has no effect on their policies.
Of course, CNN has the right to employ any commentators it chooses — it is the classification of such personal rancor as “news” that is most offensive.
on July 31st, 2009 at 10:10 pm
I’ve watched Lou Dobbs on occasion, and I’ve yet to hear him say anything that would tend to show he is a racist. Unless commonsense is racist. Why don’t all you people stop making things up?
on August 1st, 2009 at 5:39 am
You will not reprint my view simply because whatever Dobbs says about the mexicans i agree with whole heartedly. there is an invasion in the U.S.A. and the people high up are allowing this to happen. The mexicans have told us straight out that they plan to rid the earth of americans, and that they will make a atzlan… all mexican. I have heard of the violence against the blacks already in california. they state that if they cant get rid of us then they will breed us out which is where we get that term… they are nothing but breeders. it was allowed when they put their flag on top of ours and turned ours upside down… this was allowed by our own government we thought was supposed to protect us americans. there has been asian, irish, german etc… that have immigrated here and not one of them has tried to make us change our language, nor added their language to our boxes of food and everything else we read anywhere, JUST MEXICANS. they have ruined our food completely.. there is a lot of poeple who cannot eat their hot s….t. and yet more and more everyone is allowing hot peppers etc to go into our american foo.d.
then you idiots say :Oh they arent taking our jobs, they are taking the jobs americans dont want!” that is bull shit…. because if the employers would pay enough for the americans to feed their families, we would work those jobs. but the upities dont want to pay what is owed… that is why the mexicans take the jobs. the mexicans come over here by the thousands and get on welfare… uh, excuse me…. they are not americans!!!!!!
on August 1st, 2009 at 7:02 am
These birthers are playing little games to push their case.
Like the claim that a certificate of live birth doesn’t always mean someone is born there. Obama’s does say he was born there.
When the birthers use these deceptive tricks to bolster their case, it undermines it.
The state of Hawaii has verified that Obama was born there. Any sane, rational person would accept that.
You birthers are INSANE. Shut up and go away.
on August 1st, 2009 at 7:14 am
Vince, you obviously don’t actually READ any of SPLC’s reports; that is obvious.
They don’t categorize groups as racist for nothing. They quote the groups’ own racist rants as proof.
And they do not advocate ignoring immigration laws.
Vince, you are the one spreading lies in here.
on August 1st, 2009 at 10:55 am
I contacted CNN and informed them not to pay any attention to the SPLC or it’s kool aid drinking socialist followers. The SPLC is just a radical left wing hate group. Any person or organization not of color or isn’t a white liberal will be attacked and classified by the SPLC as being racist, a bigot or a hate group.
on August 1st, 2009 at 7:27 pm
I think there is a line to be drawned regarding reporting. There are U.S. constitutional considerations. There are all kinds of people and all kinds of opinions in the world. Simply because a reporter promotes a dumb conservative agenda and has gained an apparent following which boosts ratings for the network is not a good enough reason to demand censorship or termination. In fact, SPLC’s staunch reaction feeds into the frenzy and Mr. Dobbs may be awarded a big fat bonus. I work with lunk-heads who faithfully view Dobbs and O’Reilly — these people are one step above the Rocky mentality. The only way to discredit Dobbs is on a personal level if that is at all possible. Otherwise, good try.
on August 2nd, 2009 at 3:12 pm
I agree and will contact CNN. I stopped listening to Dobbs long ago. One thing that is not mentioned by Cohen is the idea of fear-mongering. I believe fear is the essential product being sold here. It is not just any kind of entertainment. It is a more specific product that has a market and Dobbs has hit on this market. CNN is exploiting it. If enough of us let CNN know that we watch CNN and change the channel when Dobbs comes on, perhaps they’ll decide we’re a better market. Perhaps the advertisers may want to tap into us as well. I think our socio-economic demographic may be of more interest to them (I know that sounds elitest, but I’d bet on it).
on August 2nd, 2009 at 4:17 pm
I totally agree. I have been writing CNN for the last few years, urging them to remove Lou Dobbs and his overtly racist and virulent anti immigrant forum. It’s disgusting that after all the years of progress, CNN would allow a platform for such vile filth to be spewn forth and how harmful such hateful rhetoric is! How it literally hurts people and fuels the fires of extremism! But one thing bothers me…WHAT IN THE HELL WERE YOU DOING DISCUSSING THIS ON THE O’REILLY FACTOR. He’s as baseless as Lou Dobbs is. O’Reilly is responsible for fueling the hate and virulent extremism with regard not only race but the anti choice movement, which resulted in the death of an abortion doctor this year. It would’ve held more crediblity in my mind, had you gone on another network or another platform to urge CNN to remove Lou Dobbs. If you’re doing well intended things on the O’Reilly Factor, then you’re just playing in the same church and playing for the same choir. You did nothing in your appearance to deter anything. Please do a better job with ethics and logic if you’re going to get Lou Dobbs removed from television!
on August 2nd, 2009 at 6:54 pm
I got disconnected (power cord…) I think this is the blog I was on… Anyways, there is stuff online I found, videos on Youtube is my example, that I ‘m realizing more and more is nothing but stuff to either as nastily as possible insult ones’ national pride, encouraging enraged rebuttles, and other stuff I now see more clearly is designed to convince people that the Aztlan reconquista idea is a looming threat threat to come and “ethnic cleanse” everybody. In recent weeks I ran across these sorts of videos, and made some comments about some incredibly insulting anti-american videos that were in spanish, which I realized later to be just answering stupidity with my own angry stupid arguments. The aztlan stuff is too, I gradually realized, is to instill insecurity, and fear, about the future, and the people who produce these videos (self-proclaimed “patriots”) who cleverly manipulate these insecurities in people, as well as appeal to peoples’ patriotism, as well as the petty muddled thinking that at times affects all persons, including myself. I SHOULD have known better, as most of my friends in my adult life were in, or from Mexico, and I even part-time lived there for years, but old wounds from people down there that usually were complete strangers still smart, and the hardening of attitudes down there in recent years was very depressing to me, as in the 90′s almost nobody got nasty just because they noticed I was from here, so more and more,I stayed more in the states. But, recently, as now that I delved into opinion columns, I realized that my OWN country has perhaps way more prejudice, or at least as much, now, when I looked through the reports of hate crimes here it looks like its’ hundreds of times worse to me than some petty anti-americanism I experienced while living in Mexico, so much now that I feel ashamed of myself that I recently whined about it online. Last night in a long talk with Victor, my oldest friend (from Guatemala) he said I have always taken things too personally anyhow. Some anti-illegal immigration video poster yesterday sent me a somewhat angry post/e-mail but I don’t care about insults , as thats all it seems alot of the people in that environment (on all sides) seem to do anyhow to each other, and i didn’t want to fall further into that hole. I’m going to learn the real issues from now on, not from fake patriots videos (from anywhere) with clever propaganda masked as patriotism. I THOUGHT I was more intelligent than that,but I have still alot of self-reflection I’m going to have to do. Well, tommorow, I’ll talk to these folks at S.P.L.C., and thats a start at least.
on August 2nd, 2009 at 7:10 pm
It’s comedy to anybody with any sense…but then this IS the country that elected W and got schnookered into an illegal war by oil pirates.
CNN obviously tells him what to say, to get ratings, to sell more soap. Tune in for the commercials, and don’t buy whatever they’re hawking. You might Email the companies and ask them if they’re in the hate business or what.
on August 2nd, 2009 at 7:55 pm
You people are morons and trivial garbage such as this is the main problem in this country. You choose to ignore everyones freedom of speech if it doesn’t match your own ideas. If what he says really is false; then so what? Then it makes him look like a fool. If you go on this pitiful warpath because of it, you add validation and draw even more attention to it. So stop being pitiful and accept the fact that everyone in this country does not blindly accept Obama like you do.
on August 3rd, 2009 at 12:11 am
YES GET DOBB’S OFF THE AIR, HE IS SO RACIST!
on August 3rd, 2009 at 9:51 am
Wow this site is what is wrong with this country. Lou Dobbs speaks the truth. The reason he is not liked because of his views on immigration. The fact that each day our countries laws are being broken by illegals entering our country using our resources such as health care, welfare etc. The blacks in this country should be up in arms over this as legal citizens who still have many hardships. Oh and lets not forget the many whites who are not financially well off who struggle each day. The same words this site insist is spewed by Dobbs and others are just as guilty and to the far left….
on August 3rd, 2009 at 9:53 am
Lou Dobbs is a great statesman and great Patriot. Unfortunately what has happened in this country – is that many on the left politically – and the right for that matter – can’t take dissenting opinion. Case in point – Latinos and illegal immigration in Texas and the south. Latinos by and large are treated very well – despite at times cities and states, and especially the U.S./Mexico border area, being overwhelmed with illegal immigrants – and the burden being placed on social services, schools, etc. Remember – these are ILLEGAL immigrants that now number in the millions. Even in our hearts if we want to help everybody, can’t at least the criminal element be screened at the border, and can’t at least someone shout on high that our laws are being broken. Someone has to have the courage to say so; and Lou Dobbs’ “Broken Borders” show segment on CNN has done just that. . .
on August 3rd, 2009 at 12:42 pm
Alan Chaillet
I must agree with you, but its not their faults that the borders are broken, its our politicians faults on the left and the right. Instead of bickering about guns and God, they should be bickering about the overloaded jails and prisons due to illegal immigration enforcement. I felel sorry for them (Latino immigrants) and I know that they are really trying to do better. US laws have permitted this flight and the laws that prevents Mexicans from becoming citizens.
I think its unfair to have open borders, but I think its unfair to punish people is you are too lazy, too scary or too crooked to do something about it. At the end of the day its all about the color of America is changing and the good old boy white way is quickly becoming intolerable. This country was never founded on the notion that all men were equal and it holds true to this day. If it was, there would have never been slavery, brutal murdering of Native Americans, and all the other atrocoties committed in the name of man and God in the United States without apology. It’s time for us to stop the division, and this is how change will occur. How can we tell the world what to do when our own house is in shambles……….
I agree with you, and I agree to disagree with you. Politely…….
on August 3rd, 2009 at 12:56 pm
Some people on here are making the claim that Lou Dobbs is a racist and has extremist views. I would like for them to actually back that up by quoting what Lou Dobbs has said that is racist or extrimist.
on August 3rd, 2009 at 1:13 pm
why you dont mr cohen urge mr obama to just release a legal birth certificate in full and this would eliminate the arguments. you have to do that for first grade and to participate in little league baseball, so what is the big deal with that. seems a little strange to me but who knows in this crazy world we live in today what the true reasons are. do you mr. cohen?
on August 3rd, 2009 at 3:17 pm
I found this excellent expose on Dobbs et al regarding the myths about immigrants he is constantly spreading.
If you wonder why the American people are easily duped, check it out. This document tackles the Dobbs, O’Reilly, Limbaughesqe myths by confronting them with Harvard University researchers and peer reviewed papers. Pretty scary how much power these guys have to paint over reality in the American mythos.
http://mediamattersaction.org/....._version#5
on August 3rd, 2009 at 3:30 pm
I remember once a spoof of TV talk show diatribe, and one of the comments was (NOTE this is NOT intended to be offensive, it is irony):
“Jews don’t go to churches! They go to places called (dramatic silence) synogogues!”
It is the same with Dobbs et al regarding illegal immigrants. The same old lies get told again and again, and viewers of these shows end up soaking up the message that illegal aliens commit more crimes when in fact they commit fewer crimes than citizens, proportionately.
That stereotype becomes the myth, and the myth drives policy and legislators’ actions.
Anyone who sponsors CNN is sponsoring bigotry, in my opinion. I say let Dobbs do his worst, let’s start boicotting advertisers who pay his salary.
on August 3rd, 2009 at 3:48 pm
I am 37 and have been actively engaged in politics since middle school. I HAVE NEVER heard of any of the other presidents having to show us proof of a birth certificate. We are all immigrants. All of or decendants came from someplace to be here. I am so sick of people and this ignorance and it just shows America in its true light and the double standard that has is visible, invisible, always has been and always will be. Those people who have the most to lose (dominance dueto ignorance) care the most and are making the most noise. Those of us who are ready to get past color and other human tribal identities don’t give a hoot!
Let it go please……..what color are the people worried about where he was born…………….huuuummmmmmm?
on August 3rd, 2009 at 4:05 pm
I’d like to see proof that Obama’s mother was in Kenya in the month of his birth.
on August 3rd, 2009 at 5:11 pm
To Nicole:
No, we are not all immigrants as most of us are natural born citizens today, but our ancestor’s were and most of them probably came here legally which made them legal immigrants.
Also, if you look on Wikipedia at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N.....ted_States you will see that there were several other past presidents whose eligibility was under question.
Obviously you don’t understand the importance of Section 1 of Article Two of the United States Constitution, or you just don’t care.
on August 4th, 2009 at 9:03 am
To Charles:
Taken form wikipedia:
All persons born in the United States, except those not subject to the jurisdiction of the U.S. government (such as children of ambassadors or other foreign diplomats) are citizens under the Fourteenth Amendment.[10] Additionally, under sections 301–309 of the Immigration and Nationality Act (restated in sections 1401–1409 of Title 8 of the United States Code), current U.S. law defines numerous other categories of individuals born abroad, as well as people born in most U.S. territories and possessions, as being “nationals and citizens of the United States at birth.”[11] The phrase “natural born citizen,” however, does not appear in the current statutes dealing with citizenship at birth.
The law governing the citizenship of children born outside the U.S. to one or more U.S.-citizen parents has varied considerably over time.[12] Current U.S. statutes define various categories of individuals born overseas as “citizens at birth,” including (for example) all persons “born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents both of whom are citizens of the United States and one of whom has had a residence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions, prior to the birth of such person[s].”[13]
If his mother was a US Citizen and never revoked her citizenship to the US, then what are you people talking about. My step-soon was born in Germany to American parents. Does that make him German or American. He has a German birth certificate, but US citizenship. It does not matter whether he was born here or Timbutktu as long as ONE of his parents was a US citizen. I don understand the importance of the Constitution but I wish people would make up their minds and bring some finality to these important issues.
If I have a black daddy and a white mom, I am black. If I have a white dad and a black mom, I can be white (maybe). I have changed so much and so often that we can’t keep up with it. The same with the citizenship bit.
Let’s not even go into the race spill. Why is it in America we are home of the melting pot, but when we all mix up we are not prepared to accept what’s coming out of the pot?
on August 4th, 2009 at 1:31 pm
To Nicole:
Actually, there are different types of citizenship. Citizenship is not one thing. A person can be a citizen but not a natural born citizen. The president must be a natural born citizen for reasons of loyalty, etc.
I believe for a person to be a natural born citizen they must be born in the US, or both parents must be US citizens if born outside of the US and they are not under another country’s jurisdiction like on a military base, etc.
That is why Arnold Schwarzenegger can’t run for president, because he is not a natural born citizen. The issue with Obama is people want proof that he was born in Hawaii because his father was not a US citizen.
on August 4th, 2009 at 4:09 pm
Mr. *Cohen* (lol),
The birthers have every right to have their legitimate concerns heard on a national level. The fact that Obama does not provide the original birth certificate is enough to make me question whether this is, in fact, a conspiracy.
on August 4th, 2009 at 9:24 pm
Charles
Thank goodness for people like you.
Proof? It seems that those of us us who accepted ‘proof” of massive weapons in Iraq do not actually want proof. We have our make believe proof. Keep it up Charles, fantasy is better than reality any time. Am waiting for the next comet as I missed the last one.
on August 5th, 2009 at 2:17 pm
“pam willis said,
on August 1st, 2009 at 5:39 am
You will not reprint my view simply because whatever Dobbs says about the mexicans i agree with whole heartedly. there is an invasion in the U.S.A. and the people high up are allowing this to happen. The mexicans have told us straight out that they plan to rid the earth of americans, and that they will make a atzlan…”
—
Oh dear. Pam let me explain this to you so you won’t have to worry yourself so.
This whole Atzlan thing? Don’t pay it any mind at all. That was an idea floated in a manifesto during the 1960s and today nobody takes that seriously, and I doubt anybody ever did when it was started. If anything it’s a kind of an inside joke against the nativists who get worked up about it, to remind you that Latinos were here before the Anglos and were pushed off the land at gunpoint, like the First Nations Peoples. It’s a symbol, not unlike the icons of battleaxes and warriors used by the nativists on their social networks. Nobody actually thinks they are perfidious vikings, they just do it for show. That’s what it is with Aztlan.
on August 6th, 2009 at 1:10 am
The SPLC has become an organization that wants to abolish free speech, free thought as well as any standard of truth. I could care less about the “birther” craze, but I do think it’s arrogant and cowardly to try and get Dobbs fired over this, just because the SPLC thinks that any opinion different then their own propaganda should be outlawed. The SPLC has “been trading in baseless, conspiratorial claims” that originate in a distorted, manipulated and fabricated view of this country as a nation of hate. A propaganda machine that is rooted in greed, the desire for power, and a bigotry against whites cloaked under the guise of justice. I think the masterminds at the SPLC had better look deep in themselves, because they have become a source of hypocrisy, hatred, cowardice and fascism. The majority of Americans are waking up to this fabricated racism industry that you have tried to indoctrinate people with. Your group will go the way of an obsolete technology…into the trash can along with the KKK and the Black Panthers which have more in common with the SPLC then they do with mainstream America. There is a great documentary on racism at this link. If you support the SPLC and their fight against racism then you are obligated to watch it here: http://video.google.com/videop.....9627714346
on August 6th, 2009 at 7:42 am
I would prefer the SPLC, instead of snuggling up with FOX news, (the seat of racial hatred in the MSM), and giving Dobbs and CNN the attention they crave and profit from, work on legal issues concerning the the detention of immigrants for months or even years without benefit of a hearing in court.
Denying immigrants their day in court violates fundamental principles of our Constitution, and is done solely on the basis of race.
Concentrating on Dobbs, (who will never be taken off the air), and pandering to FOX News, (with a lame excuse about trying to reach a broader audience…of bigots?) makes the SPLC part of the problem, not part of the solution.
on August 6th, 2009 at 2:12 pm
Tyler Durden I am mystified by one thing. You call SPLC a massive propaganda machine but what is Lou Dobb’s show then for crying out loud?
Transcripts from Dobb’s show refer to “illegals” and “illegal aliens” in the majority of episodes, always in an unfavorable light. The constant exaggeration leads to negative stereotypes that undocumented residents are dangerous scoundrels who will cut your throat and steal your welfare check.
The reality is opposite: consistent studies from some of the most respected universities in the country have shown a correlation between undocumented & documented immigrants and lower rates of crime in the areas where immigrants live.
The highest incidents of violence are among areas where there are not many immigrants, and some scholars attribute America’s native frenzy for violence on a moral code brought to this soil by Scots-Irish settlers, not the more recent ethnicities.
It is an outrage for a commentator to ruthlessly exploit America’s economic and social insecurities by feeding debunked stereotypes over the air each day. Would you accept a guy who constantly went on CNN to talk about how black people are a curse on this country? Of course not, but that is exactly what he says about illegal immigrants. The fact is that perceptions such as these create policies that are deranged and misguided. If the source of the misperception is clearly 75% of Lou Dobb’s talk shows, maybe it is time to do something about it and say, hey, buddy, stop telling lies.
Dan Rather quit, remember. And his story was most likely true about W’s national guard shame.
on August 6th, 2009 at 9:34 pm
Dear Mr. Cohen,
It is very disturbing to read your gross generalization that those of us who are less than pleased with – and less than trusting of – Barack Obama – are so because we’re “not ready to accept the fact that we have a black man in the White House”.
My husband and I would enthusiastically welcome into the White House the likes of Shelby Steele, Michael Steele, Larry Elder, Thomas Sowell, or Condi Rice – all of whom happen to black – or in Shelby Steele’s case, half black.
When I’m at our next family bar mitzvah or wedding, I’ll be sure to also share your sentiments with my brother and sister-in-law – who have the same discomfort with Mr. Obama that we do. I’m sure they’ll be surprised to hear that they’re racists.
on August 6th, 2009 at 10:21 pm
If they take Dobbs off, then the whole Fox News Channel should be shut down. They are more racist than anyone. But if Dobbs is racist, then he should go.
on August 7th, 2009 at 11:14 pm
CNN will never take Mr. Dobbs off the air until it realizes that it is to their advantage. Cost/Benefit runs most organizations. If the cost of leaving him on the air ( lost sponsors, lack of audience that will lower what they can charge for commercials) exceeds the benefit ( sponsorship dollars that continue to come in ) they will cancel him.
People who believe that Mr. Dobbs should be left on – because people will “see” that he is not correct – are suffering from the “Liberal Disease”. Liberals – including myself – want to believe that people are capable of spotting BS when they see it. We give Humanity.way too much credit.
People to tend to watch shows that reflect their already-established views. I tend to watch MSNBC and listen to NPR for my news. I expect them to shade the “News” in a way that does not aggravate me. I don’t watch Fox or listen to Rush. Most people that do not agree with Mr. Dobbs have already stopped watching him ( we all know how to use the remote) and he is still on. He has found his audience and they are “paying” CNN to keep him on by watching.
I also agree that the SPLC should not go on Fox – do you really think you will be able to convert their viewers? You just turn thousands of Conservatives loose on a new target.
on August 8th, 2009 at 12:54 pm
That’s cute Lee Ann. Old racists used to enjoy minstrel shows. Now you have a coterie of conservative African Americans who will help shield you from accusations of racism while at the same time assuring you that blacks have no reason to be upset about injustice in America.
on August 8th, 2009 at 9:59 pm
I haven’t watched Lou Dobbs in a long time. Last I did, his credibility as a journalist was already in great question due to his reporting on leprosy being brought into the country. I also do not find his on-camera relationships with female colleagues in good taste. He brings on a parade of professional women reporters — without fail, women — all of whom must stand there like fools, listening to his immature tirades, smiling and saying, “Yes Lou,” as if this “is just Lou” and we must all put up with his nonsense.
The birth certificate idiocy really takes the cake, however.
Star Magazine is blasting headlines with this appalling story. That’s about the level of “journalism” that CNN has sunk to.
If even one reporter at a major national news network is as disreputable as the paparrazi, or one of their junk news outlets, how can we believe any of them?
Surely they would fire someone who writes or reports on the level of Star Magazine?
Lou Dobbs is the ice berg they finally fit good and hard. Have fun at the bottom of the sea like the Great Ship Titantic, CNN.
on August 9th, 2009 at 6:47 pm
Wow, you call yourself “thegod”, just like the Barrack Hussein fans think he is and you say Lou Dobbs should be off the air? What are you so afraid of? Fox news is the only station that gives an opposite view to the main stream media and you are afraid of them? Barrack Hussein should be ashamed of himself because he is a liar and because he is all about “One world order” and not American at all. We are spending thousands of dollars for every illegal immigrant who comes into this country and we actually passed a bill to secure the border (building the fence) back in 2005 and we are still waiting. I don’t mind speaking out against BO, I had to listen to the Nazi-Demos for years about Bush and he wasn’t half as dangerous as BO is to this country.
on August 9th, 2009 at 6:54 pm
Beholder, no one should break the law to get into this country and if they do, should we reward them? I can’t tell you the number of times I have read where an illegal breaks the law by robbing, shooting, gang-banging, hit and run, and then running back to Mexico for refuge. If I did that as a citizen of these United States, I wouldn’t last a minute. If you want to come into another country do it legally that’s all. My Grandmother was sponsored by Walgreens to get into this country and there is a reason for that. Another thing is the total lack of respect for this language. Why don’t the Mexicans learn english? Are they stupid, because if I went to Mexico I would have to speak spanish, nobody is going to translate everything for me like they do here. Everyone needs to see the other point of view instead of just being defense all the time. There is validity to both sides except when breaking the law. Why can’t Mexicans fix their own country?
on August 10th, 2009 at 12:09 pm
Glory Be, stop and take a breath! Give your brain a chance to catch-up.
If everyone thought like you we would all be speaking the Lakota language today (I’m sure none of this makes sense.to you!). You have to know the historical perspective of this country to understand this country.
on August 11th, 2009 at 5:23 pm
If it’s good enough for Imus, it should be good enough for Dobbs.
How come the mean-spirited rants from angry old white guys make me mad? I cannot abide it to hear the interminable drumbeat of hate and deliberate misinformation disguised as concern about our nation ‘s security. These clowns didn’t materialize full-blown in a vacuum. They came from somewhere (Hell, I suppose.) They, unfortunately, seem to be concentrated in the “base” of the GOP. When is the decent law-abiding majority of Americans going to say “Enough! Le’ts have some sanity, please. We cannot turn our country into a German-American Bund.
on August 11th, 2009 at 5:43 pm
These “patriots” are no more American than I’m Mother Nature. They need a trip to the woodshed to wear them out where they think. If I talked like they did when I was growing up I would have been in deep doo-doo.
on August 11th, 2009 at 7:14 pm
Why do some people automatically label ideas different than their own as “offensive” and “hateful”? I am an independent voter, and have never been registered with a party. I have watched the Lou Dobbs show from time to time just to get a different perspective on various issues, just I have read articles on the Southern Poverty Law Center website. I like to get different perspectives on the issues. I think it wisest to understand peoples’ different points of view of various subjects and the circumstances that drive them to hold those points of view, before making any sort of judgement as to which point of view is the most valid, or for what reason.
I remember the first time the complaints about Obama’s citizenship came up. As I recall, this was right after his election. I thought, “Sour grapes, why don’t they just shut up?” But as time passed, I started wondering why Obama or his camp hadn’t produced a VALID birth certificate immediately. I became suspicious at the delay, in the face of questions raised not only by Lou Dobbs but by a number of individuals. I am not convinced that these concerns are “unsubstantiated”, as Mr. Cohen’s article suggests. As far as I am concerned, the question of “Where is it?” still stands unanswered.
I believe this was definitely a procedural problem in our government system – anyone aspiring to be elected to the office of President of this country should have been required to present their birth certificate well before the primaries, well before anyone had donated any cash to their campaign. Why was this not done? The fact remains that we as citizens have some serious work to do here.
But the bigger problem still exists – what if Obama is NOT eligible for the highest office in our land? What then? What do we do? I can predict that my 401K plan investments will plummet, at least. But overall, not a pretty picture for anyone. We would lose the superior global presence we have so long enjoyed, and confidence in our markets would plummet – which would affect markets worldwide. If Obama had to abdicate his position, would anyone have confidence in Biden? I don’t have much confidence in that scenario.
I just hope this situation becomes resolved once and for all, and SOON. But, as far as I am concerned, Obama’s citizenship, according to our Constitution, must be proven to be valid. So far, I have not been entirely convinced. However, I am still hopefully waiting for this to happen.
on August 11th, 2009 at 7:31 pm
Note to two posters:
Ruslan Amirkhanov – I have seen a copy of a Kenyan birth certificate that is supposedly Obama’s, but I have no way of knowing if it is real or fake – just as I had no reason of knowing about the others that had shown up here and there.
beholder – would you please explain to the Brown Berets de Aztlan that they are just a joke? And, if you choose this course of action, please do so in person, to their faces…
on August 11th, 2009 at 10:50 pm
Great comments, just reading these speaks volumes-how thoughtful and educated are those that stand up to hate in contrast to the ignorant, abusive speech of the intolerant. Some things never change.
on August 12th, 2009 at 12:20 am
Oh here we go, look at all of you posting “they are hating because they can’t reconcile the fact there is a black man as President”..blahblahblah. It’s hate mongers like you that keep us all divided. There are radicals on the left and right, but us middle folk need to stick together, Dem or Repub, doens’t matter anymore. Why has everyone come to the point of just being so cynical and rude toward each other? I submit to you that someday we will need each other, mark my words and make no mistake, black-white-yellow-purple-lime green. We are all being used for a common purpose: GREED. So educate yourselves and stick together…please.
on August 12th, 2009 at 1:30 am
I have seen his program but never found it of interest,As al latin senior citizen I see a different picture as follows.Mr. Dobbs means to me. Uncle Sam is using the program
to round up mostly ex military that they think are thr new
RAMBOS OF AMERICA. I picture them watching the american tv programs and they get all wound up. At this point is a perfect time in my opinion Uncle Sam doesnt need us citizens to bear arms. A few gun hos are out of the reality. T V is nothing more than a modern a big circus and should be taken as entertainment.
on August 12th, 2009 at 2:04 am
I can assure you of one thing. I do not care about the color or gender of the President of this great nation. What I DO care about is where that President is leading us. That being said, Obama has a socialist agenda and the sooner America wakes up the better. I guarantee you there will come a reckoning if this nation does not stop heading towards socialism. Have you guys forgot the story we read as children? Animal Farm? Come on. Things are falling right in step with that socialist mentality. Now anyone who disagrees with that point of view is called “unamerican” by the Speaker of the House. So I guess Pelosi is “Squeeler” and Obama is “Napolean.” My question is, are we starting to see the offspring appear from “Jessie” and “Blueball?” The puppies? Maybe those are the information gatherers of the “fishy” information. Well, I refuse to be the sheep of the story or Benjamin.
Good luck to all. Long live Freedom of Speech.
on August 12th, 2009 at 5:59 am
Ever heard of the 1st Amendment A-hole? Or am I not allowed to call you that either? Are we going to make that illegal also? You liberals claim to be for tolerance and freedom but the reality is your views are completely antithetical to the principles of freedom and individual rights.
You Statists may not like what certain individuals have to say, but in America–not Amerika–we have a right to say things that might offend you. If you don’t like what you hear on “progressive” CNN why not change the channel. Try Fox News sometime. LOL.
on August 12th, 2009 at 8:06 am
Of course Mr. Obama is a socialist. That’s why he approved the bailout of GM and other private industries.
As for Mr. Dobbs, of course he is free to tell all of the lies that he wants to. The objection is that CNN should not be paying him a lot of money to do that on national TV.
on August 12th, 2009 at 9:09 am
I like Lou Dobbs. I say keep him on. We can’t just take everyone off the air we disagree with. (Imus, Letterman, Jimmy the Greek)
on August 12th, 2009 at 9:54 am
If Dobbs is worried about a gun ban and about Obama’s socialist tendencies, I can’t fault him. I don’t think Americans are worried about having a Black president so much as they are worried about having a president who continues the US policy of open borders, socialized medicine, state-run industries, regulations on our food and failure to hold individuals and entities responsible for their actions (NOT THEIR THOUGHTS OR SPEECH). So if Dobbs is “stirring the pot” maybe someone ought to look at why the pot is boiling in the first place. In case nobody has noticed, we are outraged and offended and frightened by the sweeping and unthinking changes being encouraged and enforced by the new Administration!
You are not paranoid if someone is really out to get you.
As for Mr. Dobbs–if people aren’t smart enough to see him for what he is–oh, well. Not your business!
on August 12th, 2009 at 11:38 am
Glorybb said,
on August 9th, 2009 at 6:54 pm
Beholder, no one should break the law to get into this country and if they do, should we reward them? I can’t tell you the number of times I have read where an illegal breaks the law by robbing, shooting, gang-banging, hit and run, and then running back to Mexico for refuge
———————————————–
A couple fallacies here.
1) More than half of the estimated undocumented immigrants in the US entered the country through legal means (i.e. entered with a valid visa and overstayed for whatever reason). So they didn’t “break the law” when they entered the country. This is a common misperception, however the fact that a lot of people believe it is a good indication of why Dobbs et al must be stopped from spreading disinformation.
2) Certainly there are cases of undocumented immigrants committing the crimes you describe. The fact that you remember them and not those caused by citizens, is because people like Dobbs are out there screaming headlines about illegal immigrants. If they did this with African Americans or Asians or Jews or whatever, that is, every show saying “another black man killed somebody today” you would have to agree that something is wrong. Stereotypes are very misleading, even though there may be some members of the target group that fit the stereotype. A study from Harvard not long ago showed that immigrant populations (legal and illegal) commit statistically less crime than their citizen counterparts. The exaggeration comes from citing federal prison statistics where illegal immigrants have slightly higher percentages. However these crimes are miniscule in number compared to state crimes, and census/prison data show that immigrants are clearly less “criminal” per capita than US citizens.
So no, we should not reward lawbreakers. However the first principles of a just legal system provide defense for the accused. We need to look at the crime, the nature of it, the circumstances of it, and whether or not it is a crime in the first place. In the case of immigration violations, this is NOT, repeat NOT a criminal offense.
To suggest that immigrants are lawbreakers is the same distortion of fact to say that all white people are dangerous drivers because some happen to have run a red light. The punishment must fit the crime and innocent people cannot be punished for crimes committed by others.
on August 12th, 2009 at 11:45 am
Glorybb said,
on August 9th, 2009 at 6:54 pm
Why don’t the Mexicans learn english? Are they stupid, because if I went to Mexico I would have to speak spanish, nobody is going to translate everything for me like they do here. Everyone needs to see the other point of view instead of just being defense all the time. There is validity to both sides except when breaking the law. Why can’t Mexicans fix their own country?
——————————–
More fallacies:
1) Not all undocumented immigrants are Mexican.
2) The myth that immigrants cannot or will not speak English is simply untrue. It has been shown that the vast majority of undocumented immigrants use at least some English to get around and in their jobs. Obviously if they live in fear they are going to stick to their own close social networks where native language may be used. However I use a foreign language in my home and I am a citizen. All US citizens would be better off learning a foreign language, which is standard in Europe and Asia.
3) Regarding “fixing other countries” there is no answer because the question is misleading. There are both “pull” and “push” factors in any human migration. There are things to go to and things to get away from. These are complex issues that require more thorough treatment than can be given here. However, to put a value judgement on a country because some of its population emigrate is essentially a bigoted point of view. Many Mexicans remain in their country and are perfectly happy, just as many Americans leave their country and are happier living as expatriates, some yes, even illegally in other countries.
on August 12th, 2009 at 11:50 am
The SPLC is a liberal organization that is out of touch with reality. The ABC networks, including CNN and MSNBC are also liberal. They don’t report news, they slant it. Fox News IS fair and balanced. Wake up, unbelievers. You have been dumbed down!
on August 12th, 2009 at 11:50 am
Gregory said,
on July 30th, 2009 at 10:23 am
Birthers are not after “facts”. The facts have been made clear and are only in dispute by those who cannot reconcile themselves to having a black president.
————-
Assuredly if and when their mythic document is brought to light and inevitably substantiated as valid, they will then claim it is not the real document and carry on about a conspiracy and a cover up. Why? Because Dobbs, World Net Daily and other “credible” sources say so. And they wouldn’t say if it if wasn’t true, right?
on August 12th, 2009 at 11:55 am
OtherView said,
on August 11th, 2009 at 7:31 pm
beholder – would you please explain to the Brown Berets de Aztlan that they are just a joke? And, if you choose this course of action, please do so in person, to their faces…
————-
I did not say Aztlan is a joke. I said it is theatre. If it gets under your skin it did what it was intended to do. Their only power comes from your complicity. It is a symbol that bothers you so, a raised fist of paper mache.
on August 12th, 2009 at 12:27 pm
WHat a joke. SPLC wants to take Dobbs off the air. How noble of you— just like big govt thinking only you know what’s best for people. This is such a nanny state that we can’t even choose for ourselves what tv programs we want to watch?
Get over yourselves SPLC. I’m black and believe that Obama and his administration are a danger to American democracy. Obama is a puppet, just as Bush was a puppet. The funny thing is that a majority of the media does nothing but fawn over Obama. Yet, SPLC wants to take down Lou DObbs show which is one of the few media outlets that attempts to take on the system and SPLC can’t handle it. Just because Obama is 6.5% black doesn’t mean that he won’t be held to the same standards as any other politician. And the American people are waking up which is evidenced by Obama’s poll numbers dropping like a lead weight.
on August 12th, 2009 at 1:02 pm
There is absolutely nothing wrong with expressing conspiracies. Conspiracy theorists speak the truth far more than the white washing regular media ever will. The New World Order Exists, is powerful and Luciferian…and the Southern Poverty Law Center is one of its minion organizations, that’s why it attacks patriots. This is not up for debate for anyone who has an open mind and studies this.
on August 12th, 2009 at 6:50 pm
I don’t see how Fox News can be considered a racist network,Bill O”Reilly has more blacks and jews on the O”Reilly factor than any other network,
on August 12th, 2009 at 11:20 pm
Dobbs is the only individual worth watching on CNN. SPLC is a leftist organization, you do have a slanted view of him, as does O’Reilly.
on August 13th, 2009 at 5:45 am
Some people are being ignorant on this topic, talking about they don’t see how Fox News can be racist because they have blacks and jews on there shows. Well let me ask you a question, do you see who the blacks are that they have on their shows. A couple of uncle tom fools. Black man Larry Elder wrote a book titled “Stupid Black Men”, Jaun Williams often criticizes blacks and don’t get me started on black man the Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson, who has said that he thanks God for slavery. These people you say are black are not considered black in the black community. Knowledge is power. Jerks.
on August 13th, 2009 at 7:36 am
Lou Dobbs should stay on the air. CNN should not fire or take him off the air. First of all neo-nazi’s are not right wing groups.There left wing!! I.E. eco terrorists. Telling people to buy guns is not illegal, Nor in this article, did he say these people were said they wanted to kill the President. I think this is an concerted effort to paint people of the right as Race haters, which is not true. I would look to the left for that hate.
on August 13th, 2009 at 11:42 am
Dobbs is the ONLY ONE on CNN that cares enough about this country, to report the mess we’re in. And by telling it like it is, you think he should be pulled. Why not just stop watching him if you don’t like the truth and go to MSNBC and suck up the information Matthews, Maddow, Oberman, etc., spew. If you don’t realize by now that the birth certificate, in and of itself, is not the only disqualifying factor nor reason we have a usurper “acting” as president, you need to do more research. Stop following the sheep and get educated.
on August 13th, 2009 at 11:45 am
The black community? Where is this community exactly? Do you mean the groups formed with the word Black in the title? Or the magazines or television shows/stations with Black in the title? You should really think about how this makes other races feel about you for belonging to these communities. (this is racism)
There is no White Community, White TV, Ivory Magazine, nor White power groups. (this is NOT racism)
on August 13th, 2009 at 11:54 am
After reading some of these comments I can see why the government thinks we are nothing but sheeple. Maybe we should just sit by the TV and wait to be told by government what to trust and believe the hell with independent thought and to hell with the constitution. Americans have ghad it to easy for far to long. We as a people have forgotten our roots. We deserve to lose all of our rights,freedoms and liberties, maybe then we will get some backbone and realize that we have been manipulated for the power elite. free spech zones, cameras everywhere? That’s not conspiracy that’s fact, news on TV? only if it fits what THEY want you to know America is doomed due to our own stupidity 1984 here we come
on August 13th, 2009 at 1:17 pm
thewisegod is right
Those fools are like British expat Lord Haw Haw in WWII who went over to the Nazis and broadcast demoralizing media messages to help crush the Allies.
Anyone who has been in the Old South for a long time knows that for a long, long time black cops have been doing racist white cop’s dirty work, busting heads and so on as to avoid suspicions of racism. Virtually every racist town has a black cop on its beat for this reason.
on August 13th, 2009 at 1:21 pm
Lou Dobbs reported on a story. It is what reporters do. He said he doesn’t believe it one way or another. The story is a big deal because no one knows if it is true or not. There is not enough supporting evidence on it either way you look at it. That raises people’s eyebrows. At what point will it take for Obama followers to realize that they are using the same tactics that the Bush administration did? You want to censor and label anything that argues with obama, but you can’t get into logical conversations with anyone. You see either Nazi-death threats or racial slander from anyone who asks legitimate questions. You are hypocrits. Wake up and take control of your own lives. This whoole story shows that you see only what you want to see. Go back to the holes you came from and contimplate a world of people who aren’t stuck in such juvenile ways of thinking. Everything isn’t racist or left-right.
on August 13th, 2009 at 3:51 pm
No one should be surprised that O’Reiley would say “don’t take Dobbs seriously.” O’Reiley is equally ignorant.
There are just way too many people in the media these days that look and sound like Lou Dobbs. Sadly, they are the source for much of the news that Americans receive.
I don’t blame the average American for being ill-informed. I blame Fox News and CNN for misinforming them.
on August 13th, 2009 at 3:57 pm
Cindy Temple said,
on August 13th, 2009 at 11:45 am
The black community? Where is this community exactly? Do you mean the groups formed with the word Black in the title? Or the magazines or television shows/stations with Black in the title? You should really think about how this makes other races feel about you for belonging to these communities. (this is racism)
There is no White Community, White TV, Ivory Magazine, nor White power groups. (this is NOT racism)
————–
Cindy
I am guessing that you are white. This is not a slur or anything, but that is my guess.
The reason I believe this is because if you were black, you would understand first hand what it was like to learn about slavery and have it come up in class. I think every African American at some point had the same sensation, it’s just weird to think that people just like you were property of people just like those around you. I don’t mean to belittle what you are saying at all, because I understand in a way what you are getting at.
But you have no idea what it means to be black in America.
on August 13th, 2009 at 4:44 pm
How many times do we have to say it, If you dont like it, change the channel. Lou Dobbs is just as annoying as Glenn Beck , Hannity, and Rush, and I dont listen to half the crap they spew out, and they are about as misinforming as CNN news and yes, Fox News too.
By the way, when these guys were ranting about George Bush no one was complaining then.
on August 13th, 2009 at 5:00 pm
Charles said,
on July 30th, 2009 at 11:56 am
To Snorlax:
You don’t have to actually be born in Hawaii to obtain a “certificate of live birth”. Check the facts for yourself.
—————–
Riiiiiight.
Just go to World Nuts Daily and check the facts for yourself(the same WND that proclaimed the other day that the Arc of the Covenant had been discovered.)
on August 13th, 2009 at 5:38 pm
You are defaming Dobbs and a good lawyer could sue the SPLC and win. Dobbs didn’t say he thought Obama was born in Kenya, he said he believe Obama was wrong in not producing the original birth certificate so as to deflate the “birthers” claim. What’s driving this is Obama keeping the issue alive by not acquiescing to the request. His motives may be to hide the information on birth, education, passports, scholarship, etc for one of two reasons. The may fear revelation of the information if the claims of his being born in Kenya are correct; or, he may want to keep the distraction going.
Any reasonable person would make a similar suggestion. Nothing Dobbs said was incorrect.
The SPLC apparently doesn’t really believe in free speech, and your claim to protect the Constitution is false.
on August 13th, 2009 at 6:13 pm
rebecca
It’s not that simple. when dobbs is out there promoting lies and disinformation, there are some whose opinions will be formed by it. Those opinions translate into policy decisions. It is not appropriate to use national air time to constantly lie to the public.
Oh bring back Dan Rather!
on August 13th, 2009 at 6:16 pm
Most reasonable people simply don’t believe anything the Government tells them.Is that hard to comprehend?Right-wing, left-wing it doesnt matter.
Sex scandal lies, WMD lies or the campaign promises that fade away after the vote is counted.It’s not a surprise to me that America doesn’t trust any of them.
If politicians acted with ‘some’ integrity maybe more people would accept the birth certificate.When you have been lied to your entire life by a group of people you tend not to believe what they say.
on August 13th, 2009 at 6:59 pm
If it were a mere issue of not entertaining as is the case with many prime time dramas, comedies and “reality” shows; I would very gladly change the channel. However, Lou Dobbs’ show is presented as NEWS not as OPINION which in and of itself is a HUGE error on the part of CNN (and a major reason why I’d like to see Fox “News” renamed something else if not taken off the air, since their shows are all highly opinionated and full of “spin”), but Mr. Dobbs also uses his show to promote dangerous misinformation along racist lines of the sort that can easily be used to incite violence. I grew up where this sort of talk was often behind violence. We’ve seen it recently be used as an excuse by the gunman at the museum. This sort of thing should not and cannot be tolerated as “news” by a mainstream media outlet.
on August 13th, 2009 at 9:52 pm
Lou Dobbs is a great American Hero! He speaks the truth and he does it with authority. Illegal aliens are destroying our nation, our immigration laws need to be enforced.
As far as Obama’s birth certificate, what is he hiding? I suspect something is not right with it. He has spent about one million dollars fighting the release of his birth certificate when for about $10 he could get the issue to go away. The problem is that he was not born in the USA and that is why he will not release it. Obama is also hiding his college records that will show he attended as a foreign student from Indonesia. His papers changing his name back to Barack Obama from Barry Soreoto are not anywhere to be found. His records for the Illinois senate are hidden, everything about Barry is hidden and I would like to know who this guy really is.
Lou Dobbs is the only guy on CNN worth watching.
on August 14th, 2009 at 8:03 am
To beholder:
You mean the Ark of the Covenant?
on August 14th, 2009 at 11:12 am
We will give you Lou Dobbs if you call for the removal of Keith Olberman!
One of The Unpatriotic Mob Members
on August 14th, 2009 at 6:46 pm
Lou Dobbs is a patriot. He takes on both parties. You can’t silence everyone with opposing views.
on August 14th, 2009 at 7:53 pm
You people here need to recognize the difference between fighting racism and calling for the silencing of people whose politics you disagree with.
It was all fine for you people when he was making some of the same claims about Bush…
on August 15th, 2009 at 1:17 pm
SPLC continues to villify Lou Dobbs for speaking out on the immigration issue! We need more people talking like Lou instead of the apologetic, weepy treatment the issue gets in the newspapers and on the major networks.
And, for the record, though Lou may have given unwarranted air time to the Obama conspiracy theorists, I haven’t seen anything showing he agrees with them.
on August 15th, 2009 at 2:17 pm
What happened to freedom of speach?
on August 15th, 2009 at 2:44 pm
Have you never heard of the 1st Amendment?
What you are calling for is un-American and down right dangerous. If you don’t like him then don’t watch him or set up your own cable news network where you can spread your lies about the glory of illegal immigration and the wonders of multiculturalism.
Also how come your web site never mentions Latino and African American racism and gang crime ethnic supremacists, such as MS13, the Latin kings?
on August 15th, 2009 at 9:31 pm
It does not matter how you LIARS at SPLC want to ‘color’ it. Scum bags like you exist for the sole purpose of behaving “Anti American”. Illegal Aliens are Criminals and not Immigrants. They are horrible people. Bad for evey one. They need to made fun of, laughed at and ridiculed. It does not matter what ‘level’ of hate, as you would decifer it, is projected towards these “SNEAKS”. The are not welcome here. And your only agenda is to speak out in favor of people who sneak past our Border Gaurds. It should be made known that they are not welcome her. If our gutless Govt would simply Stand up and let it be known that we are finally enforcing the CURRENT Immigration Reform Act of 1986, then the Sneaks would leave and traitors like YOU would go away!!!!
on August 15th, 2009 at 10:11 pm
Beholder:
FREE SPEECH it is that simple.
when they demonized Bush at EVERY turn, made vampire posters of him, and came out with scathing comments and yelled and screamed for IMPEACHMENT , we allowed them free speech. This is no different, whatever your opinion of Lou Dobbs may be.
on August 16th, 2009 at 11:12 pm
To CNN regarding SPLC’s req. to drop Lou Dobbs.
I would like to voice my support of the Southern Poverty Law Center’s request that you remove Lou Dobbs from the air. While I can certainly respect Mr. Dobbs’ right to his view point, he has failed to substantiate his claims and insinuations, vis a vi the legitimacy of Mr. Obama’s nationality and alleged secret agendas by latino immigrants, in fact.
Certainly Mr. Dobbs’ commentary does not violate the clear and present danger rule established by Schenck v. United States, but I would submit to you that by providing him a forum on a news channel, CNN is giving credence the the sort of incendiary ideas that contribute to violence and social unrest. To allow this to continue shows a complete abdication of editorial responsibility.
It has been some time since I watched CNN for any reason other than to know what news other people were consuming. I find much of the website content shallow and the twenty four hour news cycle has done a lot to create a gimmicky sensastionalist feel to the channel. Still, while I find CNN’s weak approach to news disapointing, I can understand it as a sign of the times in a changing industry that has yet to find a new identity. This business with Mr. Dobbs on the other hand is very dangerous and only serves to radicalize extremism in this country for what I can only assume is a ratings bump. Again, please consider taking Mr. Dobbs off the air so that he may offer his wares in a more appropriate venue.
Regards,
Kristiaan Castillo.
on August 17th, 2009 at 2:14 pm
Check out “Lou Dobbs: Single-payer Socialist” by Lesie Sivan in the nation.com
on August 17th, 2009 at 3:22 pm
Clarence A. Herz wrote:What happened to freedom of speach?
It became freedom of SPEECH!
on August 18th, 2009 at 11:27 am
Leftists prove time and time again that censorship is their baby. If you can’t come up with a message that Americans buy, then kill the messenger.
Just to let you know, I would not ever miss a Lou Dobbs segment. He tells the truth and that is what bothers you people on the left.
on August 19th, 2009 at 9:27 pm
If we had—thank God we don’t—a Hitler Lou Dobbs would be his Goebels—disinformation–lies–he’s a bufoon—but a scary bufoon—kinda like those maniacal looking clowns that scare little kids—ever seen him smile??—its more like a sneer—to me he’s CNN’s comic relief—in fact—they should send him over to Fox—-him and O’Reilly could team, up—kinda like a demented Martin and Lewis—talk about ratings!!!
on August 19th, 2009 at 9:35 pm
Hey—Constitution matters—got a name?—what’s with the aninemity?—we leftists like you to know who we are—we are not into deception and lies—at least this leftist isn’t—
on August 20th, 2009 at 10:26 am
I am not familiar with Lou Dobbs really, nor his views, however based on your explanation of why you think he should be taken off the air it seems that you have more concern that he is a right winger than a liar. Your only mention of something he specifically said is that he believes Obama was born somewhere else. (Crazy maybe, but an opinion)
I think this piece and others like it are a slippery slope that many on the left are descending, equating dislike of the President to racism. I have heard this type of rhetoric before, the tea baggers were racists, the health care people are racists. I think you need to be careful with regard to lumping all right wingers into one group and accusing them of being racist.
As your organization and it’s supporters know stereotypes can be a dangerous thing.
on August 20th, 2009 at 2:44 pm
Something about these arguments on freedom of the press don’t ring true. The public owns the national airwaves, not the companies that are broadcasting on them. That means that neither Lou Dobbs nor his employers can tell lies to the public or lies about anyone else without facing scrutiny and possible punishment. It is possible to lose your license over that sort of scam.
A lie told on a so-called news program is considered to be a published lie. That sort of thing is called libel and whoever told that lie can be sued in court. So you see, there are laws against telling lies about other people.
on August 21st, 2009 at 2:21 pm
charles said,
on August 14th, 2009 at 8:03 am
To beholder:
You mean the Ark of the Covenant?
yes.
on August 21st, 2009 at 2:23 pm
rebecca said,
on August 15th, 2009 at 10:11 pm
Beholder:
FREE SPEECH it is that simple.
when they demonized Bush at EVERY turn, made vampire posters of him, and came out with scathing comments and yelled and screamed for IMPEACHMENT , we allowed them free speech. This is no different, whatever your opinion of Lou Dobbs may be.
—————-
Perhaps but in Bush’s case it was deserved. He should have been impeached.
Or do you believe Saddam spirited away the WMD to Syria because World Net Daily says so?
on August 22nd, 2009 at 8:37 am
“Perhaps but in Bush’s case it was deserved. He should have been impeached.Or do you believe Saddam spirited away the WMD to Syria because World Net Daily says so?”
Yeah, it was deserved, but that is not the point. Freedom of speech means that no-one gets to choose which political speech is protected and which isn’t. I don’t care if Obama is the most wonderful man to walk on this planet since Jesus, anybody has the right to lampoon him however they want – I know freedom of speech is hard for commies to understand, but that’s the way it goes.
on August 22nd, 2009 at 8:46 am
“Something about these arguments on freedom of the press don’t ring true. ”
This what I expect from commies. You know, once you take on the arrogant role of deciding who is speaking truth and who is not, we must then inquire into your competence to judge truth from non-truth- and your impartiality.
No – freedom of speech needs to rule, and we must let the public sift out the truths from lies the best they can. I know that’s impossible for an elitist leftist, because they have so much contempt for the public’s discernment abilities – but so be it.
on August 22nd, 2009 at 10:39 am
What does questioning the authenticity of a birth certificate have to do with instigating race-violence? I just don’t see the connection.
on August 23rd, 2009 at 10:31 pm
“Freedom of speech means that no-one gets to choose which political speech is protected and which isn’t. ”
————–
Well, sort of.
The Constitutional protection means that government cannot intervene to impede the liberties of free expression and peaceable assembly by its citizens. It does not mean citizens and non-governmental groups are prohibited from mobilizing to stop irresponsible speech. That is also why we have slander and libel laws. You can bet if the Klan rallies in a 200 mile radius I will be there to shout them down.
Dobbs must go.
on August 23rd, 2009 at 11:45 pm
You all are a bunch of whiny little babies, Lou Dobbs has a right to his opinions. Sounds to me all you want to here is liberal crap and when someone has a diff view you hate them for it. You have to use your own brains and do what I do and watch all the diff channels (Fox, CNN, Msnbc etc) then form an opinion. Heck, you might even learn something. Of course MSNBC is probably the most painful channel I have ever come across but I still listen to the views and make my own decision. I see that you all preach tolerance EXCEPT when someone disagrees with you!!
on August 24th, 2009 at 12:32 pm
You have to be kidding, Lou Dobbs is no more racist then Obama, or Richard Cohen him self. If anyone has an opinion they should be able to say it. As the polls and the facts show Obama is not trust worthy when it comes to the words that he speaks just as G.W Bush, Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, H.W Bush. None of them are trust worthy enough to run our country with all the corporate favoritism and the covenant of Wall Street money. It’s pathetic to see people verbally crucifying someone for concerns that millions of people have about the state of our REPUBLIC. May God help us, for we know not what we do. My final question is for the SPLC its self, It appears as if you are encouraging the very thing you claim to combat.
The Southern Poverty Law Center was founded in 1971 as a small civil rights law firm. Today, SPLC is internationally known for its tolerance education programs, its legal victories against white supremacists and its tracking of hate groups.
on August 25th, 2009 at 9:06 am
Vince said,
on July 31st, 2009 at 10:04 am
FAIR, CIS, NOT racist! Anti illegal immigration, yes. Racist, no.
————————-
Vince, that’s just not true. These groups are against ALL forms of immigration, they want to reduce the numbers of legal immigrants as well as eradicate the rest.
on August 25th, 2009 at 9:08 am
I am not prepared at this point to name anyone, but I see evidence of color blind racism by quite a few respondents on this thread.
on August 27th, 2009 at 8:42 am
beholder said,
on August 25th, 2009 at 9:06 am
Vince said,
on July 31st, 2009 at 10:04 am
FAIR, CIS, NOT racist! Anti illegal immigration, yes. Racist, no.
————————-
Vince, that’s just not true. These groups are against ALL forms of immigration, they want to reduce the numbers of legal immigrants as well as eradicate the rest.”
Beholder, I am not that familiar with CIS and FAIR, but I have not seen racism in their websites.
I am a proud member of NumbersUSA. NumbersUSA is for REDUCING, not eliminating, legal immigration and eliminating illegal immigration. Why?
Excessive legal immigration is displacing Americans in the workplace, depressing wages and adding to our population. As an engineer, I have experienced what H1B visas are doing to technical people. And please do not give me the line about impoting the “best and brightest”. It’s all about cheap labor. NumbersUSA is for returning to traditional levels of ~300,000 immigrants per year, not eliminating legal immigration.
As for the illegals, and their employers, there should not even be a discussion. The 1986 IRCA amnestied in all of the illegals at that time. Ted Kennedy then promised that that was a one time amnesty, not to be repeated. We would enforce our borders and employment laws. So much for his word… RIP!
Since ’86, each and every illegal came here knowing that they were breaking our laws. They have worked illegally, either under the table, or with fake documents. These are crimes. As a former resident of Colorado, I had to deal with, and pay for, their other crimes.
The American taxpayer is paying out millions for illegal aliens so that illegal employers can benefit. That’s the basic equation. It does not matter what color the illegals are, I don’t care if they’re as white as I am. They are illegal and breaking our laws. They are stealing from Americans. This is not racist, just common sense.
Our population just passed 300M, it will hit 500M by ~2050. 1B by 2100. Do you think this is a good thing? How will our enviornment suffer as a result of this? How will future generations deal with this? Sorry, but we should be reducing our population or we’re going to wind up like China. That’s not a pretty picture! This growth is driven mainly by excess immigration.
Now if you want to solve this problem, Obama should be pressuring Calderone to fix his country instead of promising to allow Mexico to export even more of it’s excess population. Mexico has resources, the elites control everything and do not share. Then there’s the matter of their birthrate. Solve these two problems and Mexicans will be able to live in their country.
on August 27th, 2009 at 11:48 am
Vince,
I know an engineer with a green card who makes $200,000 a year. That’s not cheap labor. She just happens to be better qualified than her American counterparts because the US has stopped training engineers. Please don’t misrepresent the facts. You and I both know that most engineers born in the US are close to retirement, and that the new crop goes into high level jobs they are not qualified for simply because there is not enough qualified labor. What happens when they do retire? Who will pass on the applied knowledge that you don’t get from a bachelor of science degree? We do need foreign engineers and they do not push down salaries at all.
Also as an engineer you must have a critical mind. Your perceptions about illegal immigrants are very common so I don’t hold it against you. However numerous studies from top tier institutions like Harvard, Princeton, and UIC have shown your beliefs about the economic impact of illegal immigrants to be mistaken. The truth is that their presence is a net gain for both tax rolls and economic productivity, the exceptions who are indigents should not be taken for the majority. Granting amnesty is not a perfect solution but it makes a lot more sense for our country then trying to enforce unenforceable laws.
Stronger borders? Well, the fact is that most undocumented immigrants didn’t jump the border — they came in with a valid visa and overstayed. To get that visa, they had to supply tons of personal information and were screened in many cases for HIV, hepatitis, financial resources, and other such factors. The stereotype of the Central American border jumper is misleading and frankly, bigoted.
Regarding the 1986 immigration act Ronald Reagan made it very clear in his remarks upon signing the bill that the first and foremost priority of the law was to combat a threat to national sovereignty and that its function was primarily a workplace crackdown on illegal employment. The amnesty portion of the bill, for some illegal aliens who qualified, was a tertiary component of the bill: “The employer sanctions program is the keystone and major element.” Read his speech and you will see that the amnesty portion was not the motive nor the outcome of the bill’s intent:
http://www.reagan.utexas.edu/a.....10686b.htm
I would also encourage you to look at what the US Chamber of Commerce, the Cato Institute and some other non-left wing organizations are saying about illegal immigration. Their findings coincide with the universities that illegal immigration does cause specific tax deficits, but on the whole the nation benefits through the money these people spend, the taxes they pay but never get back, the sales tax the pay, and the reduced rate of crime in illegal and legal immigrant communities.
This issue is fraught with myths and disinformation. It is a complex issue because we are dealing with a grey economy and unclear demographics. However, as you are a scientist I hope you can approach what I am telling you with a critical mind and look into the issue a bit more than you have.
on August 27th, 2009 at 4:38 pm
Oh PLEASE!
So you know ONE engineer on an H1B who is making $200k. Have you EVER been in an engineering office? At my old employer, who I won’t mention but is famous for making light bulbs among other things, they were bringing in H1B’s at half the prevailing wage The vast majority were not the best and brightest. They were cheap. I would advise you to google Norm Matloff. He has done some good work on this issue.
I personally know of one software engineer who truly was in the best and brightest catagory and he was paid $20k LESS than a comparable American.
Those poor guys were worked 70 hours a week. Don’t like it? Go home! Of course, they then wanted everyone to work 70 hours, “Or we’ll find an Indian who will”.
American engineers and software types who reached the ripe old age of 40 had a target on their backs. The list of “over 40″ engineers that got whacked was staggering.
I have seen H1B’s hired over MORE qualified Americans. And I mean “order of magnitude” more qualified.
Sorry, but I’ve lived that nightmare.
H1B needs to be reformed. Limit the quanities, auction them off to companies willing to sponsor specific individuals and require that these folks get paid ABOVE prevailing wage. That will assure that only the best and brightest get here and they are treated fairly.
So we’re not training engineers? First, yes we are. Second, with the prefession so depressed by outsourcing and H1B’s, it’s a wonder that anyone goes for that degree.
As for your “facts” about illegal immigrants, I don’t know where to begin.
Wage depression and Americans displaced: YES! How can 12-20 million additional people in the job market NOT depress wages, especially when they are willing to work for sub-standard wages?
Crime: Definately UP! Drugs, gangs, driving illegally. Sorry, but a lot of these folks do not respect the law. The first thing they did here was break the law.
Sorry, but the majority are low educated and are in fact border jumpers. (Or as one study put it, “Less-educated Hispanic immigrants”) Mexico is the top country of origin. (61%) And just how is that racist? Drop the race card, it has no validity in this discussion.
As “low-educated” families, if they are legalized, they will consume much more in social services they they will contribute in tax revenue. I believe th efigure is ~$18000 per family. Sorry, but as a taxpayer, we cannot afford this nonsense.
The Chamber of Commerce is THE cheap labor lobby. Of course they want illegals, more profits for business.
Sure the extremely liberal universities have studies. There are other studies also. You can find a study that says just about anything you want to quote.
What does your common sense tell you? Have you ever lived in an illegal dominated town or neighborhood? I have. It isn’t pretty. Please do not try to tell me that crime is low.
Sales tax benefits? So, if Americans had those jobs they would not pay tax right? Do we collect sales tax on the remittances that the illegals send home? (NO!) So even if an illegal steals an ID and pays the IRS, the local economy loses because of depressed wages, the underground economy and remittances.
Income tax? You mean taxes they filed using stolen documents? Last I knew, that was a crime…
Yes, there are benefits. The illegal employers get a cheap workforce that they can bully. More profits! Yippee! The rest of us pay dearly for this. Many have paid with their lives. No thanks!
I have looked into this problem. I suggest you go to CIS or NumbersUSA and try to detect and steer clear of sources with a vested interest in increasing immigration. This a big problem but it has an easy solution. The SAVE ACT has been re-introduced. Again, go to NumbersUSA for more info.
on August 27th, 2009 at 6:26 pm
Lou Dobbs is obviously an opinion program that also promotes racist views. He seemed to have adopted that new approach during the 8 years that Cheney/Bush were in the White House.
If it had ever been a news program, that could not have happened.
I stopped watching CNN when he began promoting his imaginary stories about immigrants spreading Leprosy. I knew that was a whopper because I am a retired nurse who keeps up with recent news on Epidemiology.
on August 27th, 2009 at 6:28 pm
Beholder, thanks for your post on legal and needed immigrants.
on August 27th, 2009 at 7:33 pm
INTERESTINGS
BEHOLDER SAYS.
DOBBS MUST GO
BUT FARRAHKAN STAYS?
on August 28th, 2009 at 7:56 am
Farrahkan stays where Daniel? Does he have a cable access show or something?
on August 28th, 2009 at 10:51 am
Vince,
There are a number of issues here and I don’t want to hog this space, so I will attempt to them into smaller items for discussion.
Modes of entry:
The Pew Hispanic Center in 2006 found that slightly under half of the estimated 12 million undocumented immigrants in the country entered with a valid visa and overstayed. So I was wrong, it’s not more than half, but close to half. The entire fact sheet can be found here:
http://pewhispanic.org/files/factsheets/19.pdf
This document discusses the methodology and the current inability of the US government to track egress of I 94 holders. The I 94 is the document legal visitors are given upon entry through Customs. There is a pilot project underway (it has been tried twice before, once after the 1993 WTC bombing and again after 9/11) called US Visit that will attempt to track these numbers. Details on US Visit can be found here:
http://www.dhs.gov/files/progr....._0006.shtm
In 2003 the Government Accountability office admitted that no methodology was in place to collect and tabulate exiting I 94s. That report can be found here:
http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d0482.pdf
However in 2000, the GAO found that 20% of I 94s had no corresponding exit. Given this difficulty in obtaining official statistics, DHS has relied on the work of Robert Warren, a veteran demographer who was employed for many years at the US Immigration and Naturalization Service, now part of DHS. DHS used Warren’s 1997 findings to produce an estimate from estimates of the 2000 Census that 2.3 million undocumented immigrants were overstayers. However the GAO report found that calculations based on alternative data sources put the percentage of overstayers at 27%, 31% and 57% in 2000.
To produce the estimates of the overstay population reported here, the Pew Center applied Warren’s findings with some modifications to the Center’s previously reported estimates of the unauthorized population in 2006. The estimates suggest that out of an unauthorized population of 11.5 to 12 million, some 4 to 5.5 million or between 33% and 50% are visa overstayers.
Unfortunately some will assume Pew is biased because it has the word “hispanic” in its name, but I hope the above links and information will provide enough proof of the validity of this study and its findings.
Hopefully we can get beyond the reactionary mindset and simple bigotry, and approach this issue critically based on these statistics and Pew’s use of official GAO and DHS methodologies.
on August 28th, 2009 at 11:14 am
Vince,
Regarding engineers:
Yes I have been in many engineering facilities because I have engineers in my family. My experience is that roughly half of the engineers I have seen in high paying jobs (let’s say $150k – $250k per year) are foreign born, because US citizens are not producing high caliber engineers. You have also admitted that the older generation of engineers is on the way out (whether they have targets on their back or not) and that surely you recognize that any technical field requires a transfer of knowlege to younger generations. Who will do this for our country if we block foreign engineers and stick to the protectionist agenda you propose.
Any educator will tell you that the US is lagging behind the rest of the world on technical skills from secondary education all the way through post doctoral work. If developing nations like India or Brazil are able to produce higher caliber engineers than the US it is because those countries emphasize technical training whereas we emphasize sitting around munching potato chips and watching sitcoms from an early age.
So you won’t accuse me of spreading leftist propaganda, I found this link to the nice conservative Christian Science Monitor, showing that US students lag way behind in science and math.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/.....-usgn.html
Part of the obstacle of course are the dimwit creationists who would rather hold to the theory that the world is 6,000 years old than look at what science has to say. This goes back to Copernicus, so it’s not an easy problem to fix.
Another factor that must be considered is the shift away from US manufacturing and industry in general. There are two main reasons that I can see: 1) excessive taxation on businesses, forcing them to overseas tax homes, and 2) the high cost of US labor. Immigrant labor has been shown by numerous think tanks, universities, and organizations to be highly beneficial to the US economy. I will go into that later, but it is worth mentioning here.
on August 28th, 2009 at 12:05 pm
On wage depression:
Vince, you are a Marxist and didn’t know it.
Marx’s labor value theory, which states that the cost of the good is equivalent to the labor that goes into it, is a pillar of Marxian economics, as detailed in Capital (1867). The theory goes back, if you will allow me, to the physiocrats of the late 18th Century who proposed that all economic value comes from the land. Adam Smith also upheld this view in Wealth of Nations (1776), so it’s not just commies like me who refer to it. However it was Marx who put it into hard social science.
You and Marx, like it or not, state the same thing — Marx took classical economics to show that the value of labor power must depend on the number of labor hours it takes on average, to feed, clothe, and shelter a worker and make it possible to do the work. This means wages will eventually depend on the number of labor hours it takes to sustain the worker. Let’s say five hours of labor are needed to feed, clothe, and house a worker each day so that she can drag herself into work the next day. If one labor hour is worth one dollar, the correct wage would be five dollars per day.
So, what you are saying is that immigrant labor costs less because they are better able to survive for less money than US citizens. So, because US citizens cannot accept the conditions immigrants do, wages drop as a result. In this sense, I would generally agree with you and your ally Marx, except for one thing.
Minimum wage is set by federal law. If the wage is too low, it is because of federal policy, not because of immigrants.
Now, if wages in professional jobs are low, perhaps it is simply that immigrants are more competitive than US workers. If you go with Marx, then profits should all go back to the workers, instead of to the capitalists, so you would have no problem. But since you probably think socialism is evil, you are going to have to live with the fact that the capitalists who pay your salary will choose whoever costs less.
Consider this: perhaps Americans are too addicted unnecessary luxuries, overpriced brands and status symbol, wasteful lifestyles, and generally “keeping up with the Joneses”, to be able to compete with immigrant workers. If so it’s your problem, not theirs.
Now what you and Marx fail to appreciate is that the theory of labor value falls short. Profits are not gained by only exploiting workers so much as taking risks, curtailing or foregoing consumption, and better organization of production (including moving companies overseas where tribute is less).
In fact, the wages that immigrants earn here will be spent and taxed, and the businesses they work for will encourage greater productivity in the national economy. In other words, with cheaper labor, the US will produce more, consume more, and enjoy the advantages of job growth and greater general prosperity as a result.
If we curtail the technical labor visas as you propose, the response by industry will be to shut down US operations and move to India, Brazil or wherever high skilled, low cost labor can be obtained. In that case you will no longer have a job at all, much less a high paying one.
on August 28th, 2009 at 12:13 pm
If you want CNN to get the message, write letters not emails. There is something about a person taking the time to write.
on August 28th, 2009 at 12:20 pm
Here is another helpful link about H1B Visas, the companies that sponsor them, the numbers etc.
http://www.myvisajobs.com/Top_Visa_Sponsors.aspx
on August 28th, 2009 at 1:31 pm
Vince said:
What does your common sense tell you? Have you ever lived in an illegal dominated town or neighborhood? I have. It isn’t pretty. Please do not try to tell me that crime is low.
———
My reply:
Common sense tells me that a world view is shaped by personal experience. Those who have limited experience beyond their own streets, neighborhoods, cities and countries will have a distorted or inexistant world view. An opinion is not a world view, nor is repeating what seems to be a popular consensus about criminality and immigration.
Harvard University researchers, in a peer reviewed academic paper on public health, demonstrated using census data and crime data that legal as well as illegal immigrants have less incidents of crime than their native born counterparts. I highly encourage you to read the paper because it illustrates the very important fact that perception is not reality.
Harvard found that when shown images of inner city neighborhoods with clotheslines and grafitti, where immigrants were present, compared with images of nicely trimmed lawns and cookie cutter houses, people invariably assumed that the higher crime rates were in the chaotic neighborhoods. The truth was opposite.
Crime rates are low among immigrants because they will not risk deportation for a quick buck. They also stick together through tight family networks and social support groups so that they are able to meet basic needs without resorting to crime (and no a visa violation is not a crime, it is an administrative offense).
Here is an overview of the report — I would rather point you to the original study, but since you are a scientist I chose a science website.
http://www.livescience.com/str.....crime.html
So you see stereotypes can be very misleading. Garbage in, garbage out.
on August 28th, 2009 at 1:34 pm
And my point about the worldview is that I spent many years of my life in areas of the Third World, including some considered to be among the most dangerous places of the earth (Colombia for example), where you would likely be fearful of going. I not once suffered from any crime. What I found is that people are people, regardless of their social status.
on August 29th, 2009 at 1:28 pm
Beholder,
You are VERY entertaining, but frankly, you make no sense.
I will admit to some protectionist leanings, but rest assured I am not a marxist.
Yes, I am for keeping jobs here. Much of that is a moral issue. We outlawed slavery in this country, but buy essentially slave produced goods from third world countries. We have laws to protect the enviornment here, but allow but goods prodeced from polluting factories elsewhere. There’s a big moral hole in these actions.
Much of that is that I see corporations tearing this country apart seeking cheap labor. The long term consequesces to our country are obvious. I do not have a solution to the corporate tendancy to regard short term profit as the only motive. You can sentence a person to jail if they commit crimes, corporations have the ability to move away from laws and thus evade any moral responsibility. We need to find a method to counter this. That’s not marxist, it’s common sense.
Regarding H1B’s, I am not for eliminating them, but providing a viable system that allows a reasonable level of immigration of the best and brightest without depressing wages or discouraging Americans students from entering the technical fields. As it stands now, it is an abused system that floods the workplace with cheap, and predominantly low end workers. Effectively, the corporation gets the ability to offer residence as a form of compensation to the worker, lessening the need to pay an otherwise fair wage.
As for your “study” on crime rates, there are logical holes large enough to drive a truck through. Obviously someone had an agenda to push. Yes, well assimilated Legal immigrant communities do well. Illegal imigrants are another story. From PEW: “Latinos without US citizenship represent 29% of all federal offenders” And what proportion of the population are they? … http://pewhispanic.org/files/reports/104.pdf
That’s quite an article.
As for “worldview”, let’s just say that I have been around the block a few times. Please do not try to dismiss my opinions with this nonsense. You seem to enjoy talking down to those of us who have a different opinion. Sorry, but your view is not the only valid one.
But, we do agree on a few things. Yes, this country needs to be more business friendly and yes we need to raise our educational standards. Yes, the Krazy Kristians are nuts. (Not to be confused with mainstream religious folks!)
on August 30th, 2009 at 1:22 pm
You people have a very twisted view of what freedom is. Sure, you were all for between 2000 and 2008 but now you’re not. You’re using every little trick to try and silence people and it’s sickening.
People are NOT racist for questioning the president.
People are NOT racist for being against government-run health care
People are NOT racist for wanting to look into a birth certificate
People are NOT racist for being concerned about illegal immigration.
And what many of you are doing is projecting. You are who you are and since you’re full of hate, you believe that others must be running on hate too. Turn off your computers, turn off your televisions and turn off your radios. Go do something more constructive and healthier for yourself and the world.
Because your divisive attitudes and downright intolerance for opposing views is why you should just bug off.
on August 31st, 2009 at 12:00 pm
Vince said,
on August 29th, 2009 at 1:28 pm
From PEW: “Latinos without US citizenship represent 29% of all federal offenders” And what proportion of the population are they? …
————————–
Federal offenders are a small percentage of overall criminals in the country. Although yes, federal facilities have a higher percentage of immigrants, most crimes are state crimes, and sentences served in state or municipal facilities are therefore in the overwhelming majority.
Thus even with the higher percentage of immigrant violators in federal prison, when you look at the numbers for all prisons, immigrants are still underrepresented per their percentage of the national population. Harvard discussed this in their findings.
Since you mention Latinos and crime, I think it is important to point out that John Tanton, who founded CIS, NumbersUSA and a dozen or so other groups dedicated to ending immigration, has published views supporting eugenics, a permanently discredited form of quackery social science that linked racial markers to intelligence and human achievement.
I think you need to go back to Locke and the tabula rasa (blank slate) concept to understand the true relationship between ethnicity and criminality in America. As Napoleon Bonaparte said, ability alone is nothing without opportunity.
In any case factual and objective data prove that criminality is lower among immigrant populations. It is not an opinion, but statistical fact. Dobbs et al feed disinformation and stereotypes every time they start talking about illegal immigrant this or that.
If you ran a headline saying White Protestant Kills Family of Four, or White Protestant Apprehended for Cop Slaying every time it happened, and Dobbs started screaming about it on his show then public perception would be very different about white protestants, don’t you think?
on August 31st, 2009 at 3:42 pm
“You’re using every little trick to try and silence people and it’s sickening”
They know what they’re doing. It’s communism, rules for radicles, call it what you like. They are disingenous liars and proud of it.
on September 1st, 2009 at 11:54 am
Well said and well written, Selt. The problem with SPLC ins that they have a distorted view based on what they do on a daily basis. If you look for bigotry, you will find it. If you spend all of your time looking at bigotry, then all you will know is bigotry. This is true for other things too, like crime. If all you look at is crime…. The reason people are upset with Obama is not because he is black, as SPLC seems to think in its one-track mind, It is because he is a Socialist! He belongs to that group of politicians who believe the American people are too stupid to know what is best for them. He is wrong.
on September 1st, 2009 at 1:44 pm
CARLA, this is not so strange. Well, THE NATION.COM described DOBBS’ wife as a Mexican-American. But you have to remember, it’s a two way street. American males on the Right prefer a submissive woman because they are intimidated by the economic (if not emotional) independence of many Anglo women. The great majority of Mexican and Mexican-American women, often see men of other races, ethnicities and cultures as a form of social climbing. So it is no surprise. Mr Dubbs is one of those racists I like to call Carsonian racists. They are not detered to seek out women of other races, ethnic groups or cultures, yet will fanatically disparge those same groups. A man of contradictions, but he’s really not hard to figure out.
on September 1st, 2009 at 2:23 pm
Only God knows what lurks in the heart of men. Just remember we all must stand before him to be judge on our words, thoughts and deeds.
on September 1st, 2009 at 2:26 pm
Weekends are socialist. Came straight from the worker’s unions. So is public education.
I think you ought to go hug a socialist, Master Sergeant. Unless you want to go back to the days of tenant farming.
on September 1st, 2009 at 5:44 pm
Beholder, you need to clarify legal vs. illegal imigrants. Your argument switches back and forth as if they were the same population. They are not.
Legal immigrants are by and large not a crime problem. They come here legally, pay the fees, pass the physicals, pass the interviews, have sponsors etc. I know this personally because my wife is a legal Chinese immigrant.
The first thing illegals do when they come here is well, come here illegally. (Or as you point out, overstay a visa.)Then there is a string of criminal behaviors when they stay here, take jobs illegally, etc. Working under the table tax free is a crime. (And their employers are just as gulty!) Using a false ID is also a crime. To come here is illegal, to support yourself here without documentation is illegal. What part of this equation do you not understand?
This disrespect for the law often does not stop at employment related crime. Driving illegally, DUI, drugs and gang related activity are not uncommon among the illegal population. Where I lived in Colorado, they were the norm.
You try to apply the stats of LEGAL immigrants to the illegal population. That comparison doesn’t hold water. This is broken out in the study that I referenced for you.
The mention of Latino crime stats is because Latinos are the bulk of the illegal immigrants. Being Latino has nothing to do with it.
Race is not the issue, much as you would like to discredit us as racists, that is simply not true of the majority who oppose illegal immigration.
Being from a culture where there is not respect for the law probably is a cause of illegal immigrant crime. (Not that the legal system of Mexico deserves respect, another diversion…)
Play the race card if that’s all you have, but it’s not a valid argument. I do not recall any headlines saying “Latino Catholic blah blah blah”. Illegal alien is not a race or a religion or even a nationality. “Illegal alien” is a choice, a behavior. Nice try, but it’s a false argument.
As for Tanton, he has answered his critics. NumbersUSA explicitly is against racism, I have not seen anything racist on FAIR or CIS either. Again, the race card is trumped by the facts.
on September 5th, 2009 at 11:43 pm
OK, folks. One more time. SPLC is NOT calling for Dobbs to be removed from the air simply because they disagree with his views. They are calling for his removal because he doesn’t bother to check his facts, or research the connections of the immigration “experts” who appear on his show. He picks up pure BS and repeats it wholesale.
An example: the “birthers.” Do you really think Obama would have gotten as far as he has in politics if he wasn’t a citizen? Don’t you think someone would have figured it out long before now? (And btw, Hawaii IS part of the U.S, in case you didn’t know!) And Dobbs persists in repeating this utter nonsense and giving it credibility! I could cite many more examples,
Dobbs is a disgrace to the journalistic profession.for his fuzzy so-called “facts” and dubious interview subjects. I’ve been writing to CNN for the past two years to try to get him removed. I don’t watch him at all, but I still think he should be removed from the air. His “reporting” feeds into the paranoid fringe and encourages them. CNN should be ashamed of themselves.
on September 7th, 2009 at 12:46 pm
Ever heard of the constitution and freedom of speech? It works both ways. You do not have to agree and you do not have to listen.
If you silence Dobbs, why not the SPLC. Let’s recognize the long term effects of degrading the constitution.
on September 8th, 2009 at 4:59 pm
Beholder, you need to clarify legal vs. illegal imigrants. Your argument switches back and forth as if they were the same population. They are not.
Legal immigrants are by and large not a crime problem. They come here legally, pay the fees, pass the physicals, pass the interviews, have sponsors etc. I know this personally because my wife is a legal Chinese immigrant.
The first thing illegals do when they come here is well, come here illegally. (Or as you point out, overstay a visa.)Then there is a string of criminal behaviors when they stay here, take jobs illegally, etc. Working under the table tax free is a crime. (And their employers are just as gulty!) Using a false ID is also a crime. To come here is illegal, to support yourself here without documentation is illegal. What part of this equation do you not understand?
This disrespect for the law often does not stop at employment related crime. Driving illegally, DUI, drugs and gang related activity are not uncommon among the illegal population. Where I lived in Colorado, they were the norm.
You try to apply the stats of LEGAL immigrants to the illegal population. That comparison doesn’t hold water. This is broken out in the study that I referenced for you.
The mention of Latino crime stats is because Latinos are the bulk of the illegal immigrants. Being Latino has nothing to do with it.
Race is not the issue, much as you would like to discredit us as racists, that is simply not true of the majority who oppose illegal immigration.
Being from a culture where there is not respect for the law probably is a cause of illegal immigrant crime. (Not that the legal system of Mexico deserves respect, another diversion…)
Play the race card if that’s all you have, but it’s not a valid argument. I do not recall any headlines saying “Latino Catholic blah blah blah”. Illegal alien is not a race or a religion or even a nationality. “Illegal alien” is a choice, a behavior. Nice try, but it’s a false argument.
As for Tanton, he has answered his critics. NumbersUSA explicitly is against racism, I have not seen anything racist on FAIR or CIS either. Again, the race card is trumped by the facts.
on September 9th, 2009 at 2:37 pm
Vince,
You bring up a number of issues.
I think we should separate opinions and beliefs from empirical fact. I have no interest in discussing your beliefs beyond what you have said, though I disagree with them.
Nor do I think that your beliefs have any more basis in fact than any act of your imagination, such as your belief in God or who might win the World Series. As such, they are inarguable. Any discussion we have about them would be metaphysical, illogical, and fruitless.
So, first I will cull out your beliefs, which I repudiate but will not discuss with you:
“Legal immigrants are by and large not a crime problem. They come here legally, pay the fees, pass the physicals, pass the interviews, have sponsors etc. I know this personally because my wife is a legal Chinese immigrant. Then there is a string of criminal behaviors when they stay here. This disrespect for the law often does not stop at employment related crime. Driving illegally, DUI, drugs and gang related activity are not uncommon among the illegal population. Where I lived in Colorado, they were the norm. Race is not the issue, much as you would like to discredit us as racists, that is simply not true of the majority who oppose illegal immigration. Being from a culture where there is not respect for the law probably is a cause of illegal immigrant crime. (Not that the legal system of Mexico deserves respect, another diversion…) Play the race card if that’s all you have, but it’s not a valid argument. I do not recall any headlines saying “Latino Catholic blah blah blah”. Illegal alien is not a race or a religion or even a nationality. “Illegal alien” is a choice, a behavior. Nice try, but it’s a false argument.”
And now, I will discuss empirical fact, which can be rationally debated and truth derived:
Regarding the difference between legal and illegal immigrants, there are a number of issues here to discuss, and you comment does not address them.
First, the designation of “legal” and “illegal” is a little bit misleading because under 8 U.S.C. §1325(a), it is a crime for a person to enter the U.S. illegally, whereas it is merely a civil violation, under § 1227(a)(1)(B), for an alien to be present in the country illegally. Someone in the act of crossing the border will be adjudicated differently than someone say, who committed a crime once in the country and is found to be in the country illegally, since at that point being present in the country is no longer a criminal offense, but rather a civil infraction.
Secondly, the study by the Harvard sociology department looked at both legal and illegal immigrant populations, which were cross checked with prison data and census data, both in the realm of black and white. Their conclusions were quite clear that when grouped by all offender types (federal and state), illegal and legal immigrants were both underrepresented compared with US citizens in the penal system, in disproportion to their population in the country. It can therefore be factually concluded that immigrants – legal and illegal – reduce criminality in America. The study that you referenced looked only at Federal correctional facilities, which are drastically fewer in number and offender populations than state and county correctional facilities.
Thirdly one of the compelling reasons for Comprehensive Immigration reform is the huge distortion between legal immigration routes and de facto immigration through illegal routes. It has been argued that reforming the system to allow more legal immigrants would reduce the numbers of illegal immigrants, since those seeking to study, work, obtain asylum, join family members, etc., would be able to do so legally, and solve much of the problem related to their presence in America illegally.
Moreover, the policies used by US immigration authorities unfairly penalize certain nationalities and races; visa applications from China, Haiti, Philippenes , Mexico etc, will take much longer and have much less chance of success per capita than those from Western European countries, for example. The system has been widely criticized for its perversities, and a key diplomat resigned from the Foreign Service some years ago in protest of these policies considered racist, as described in an article in the world respected and highly objective diplomacy journal, Foreign Affairs.
Now regarding behaviors considered undesirable (working off the books, taking jobs illegally, driving illegally, etc.) there are specifics points to be raised under each separate consideration:
Working off the books: This is a common practice by citizens throughout the country. Take a peek into any restaurant or bar and you will see this behavior taking place right under the nose of the authorities. Self employed persons and business owners also cook their books quite commonly in this country. To address this problem we have policies already in place to catch and punish violations. Under the 14th Amendment guarantee of equal treatment under the law per national origin, any attempt to set up special legislation to be harsher on immigrants would be unconstitutional.
Taking jobs illegally: While true that a grey market economy depletes potential contributions to specific tax rolls, it is also true that many illegal immigrants pay federal and social security taxes without ever receiving any benefit, so this represents a net gain to US taxpayers. Moreover, the 12 million people living and working here illegally have been shown to have strong advantages to local and national economies. This is because of the availability of low wage labor, as well as the jobs and wealth that are created by business owners who benefit from low wage labor, as well as the businesses and employees of the businesses that provide goods and services consumed by this segment of the US population. Additionally, their spending generates specific gains in state sales tax in exactly the same percentage as legal residents and citizens.
Driving illegally: The initiative to grant drivers licenses without proof of legal residency in the country is beneficial for a number of reasons. First, it ensures that drivers who happen to be illegally in the country will carry insurance for any eventual liability, and it creates a biometric record that can be useful if indeed the immigrant in question commits a crime or must produce ID for any reason. Empirically it can be shown that denying a drivers license is ineffective in stopping people from driving altogether, though it might indeed discourage it. Providing a drivers license then puts the burden upon the immigrant to obtain the necessary privilege, rather than de facto force all immigrants to take their chances in order to survive. In this sense it is also a more practical solution, as well as more humane than the status quo.
on September 10th, 2009 at 10:02 am
Beholder,
I’ll make this brief since I have to get to work.
First, thanks for not calling me a racist this time around.
To your points:
Legal vs illegal. Civil or criminal, it is a crime to enter this country against the law. Why do you think they pay smugglers a lot of money to help them get here?
There are many studies on illegal immigration and crime. Harvard is a very liberal institution that gives scholarships to illegal aliens. Perhaps that induces some bias. I have cited a couple for you, but you discredit them because they do not agree with your beliefs.
To your third point: You seem to be saying that we should legalize them so they wouldn’t be illegal anymore. We did that in 1986. Sorry, but that didn’t solve the problem. I just love your phrase “de facto immigration through illegal routes”. You obviously believe that the US has no right to secure it’s borders. This we will not agree on!
Our policies are discriminate? PLEASE! This country allows an extremely high number of legal immigrants. The Chinese seem to have no problem getting visas. Mexicans recieve a large proportion of legal immigration visas. We should be selective when choosing new citizens. (Not discriminitory, but selective.)
Working off the books. So your “logic” is that since some Americans work illegally, cook the books, etc, it is discriminatory to forbid illegal aliens to work illegally? Twisted…
Illegal employment definately has benefits, for illegal employers. This is NOT a gain to US tax payers as the illegals use more in benefits than they pay in taxes. As for sales tax, first, less is spent by illegals ,therefore less tax is collected, because of their depressed wages. Second, they send a large proportion of their earnings home. Remittances are a huge portion of the Mexican economy. Money sent home is lost to our economy. No sales tax is collected. Your “logic” is completely full of holes.
Driving is a priveledge, not a right. The crime (civil or criminal) of coming here illegally does not earn the priviledge of having a driver’s license. Why should we grant the priveledge of driving for the purpose of making the crime of working illegally easier to commit? Again, your “logic” is twisted to suit your idealogy.
Your last sentence is interesting. Yes, we need a practical solution and one more humane than the status quo. We need to have a little compassion for our own citizens who’s jobs have been taken by illegal immigrants. An estimates 8 million non-agricultural jobs are being done by illegals. How about some campassion for our LEGAL citizens instead of the illegals.
And while we’re at it, why do we kowtow to Mexico? Mexico is not a poor country. They have mineral wealth, oil, a great tourism industry. And yes, an elite class that does not allow the common people to share in the wealth of the nation. That is a root cause, yet no one is adressing it.
on September 12th, 2009 at 6:04 am
What utter nonsense and complete lies, ” people are striking out” because of a “Black Man in the White House”.
You should be ashamed of yourself and you would be if you had any sense of honor or integrity.
On the issue of Dobbs and your ‘outrage’ over CNN keeping him on the air, I find it more complete utter nonsense. Dobbs is actually performing his duty which is to report news. The news is that Hussein hasn’t released his birth record, notwithstanding, an ‘official copy’, that no one in Hawaii will actually sign or seal.
I know how it must upset you and your brown shirt fellow fascists that there still are some actual news organizations that still allow journalists the freedom to report news instead of being in the tank for Hussein and ‘making the news’, like the mainstream media is.
on September 13th, 2009 at 12:38 am
John Steinbeck,
Thanks for those pearls of “wisdom”? from your novel “The Grapes of Crap”,
on September 14th, 2009 at 2:08 pm
Hey smart guys.Lou Dobbs speaks for over 95% of the American people when we and he says illegal aliens go home and get in line. Infact all you bleeding heart liberals can go with them but don’t get in line stay there.
on September 17th, 2009 at 3:10 pm
The wrathful and sullen don’t need anyone like Dobbs to speak for them. Dante did a pretty good job already with the fifth circle of the Inferno.
on September 18th, 2009 at 5:05 am
Lou Dobbs is a breath of fresh air in a country gone mad. The fact is, Dobbs speaks for a significantly large amount of Americans against what is seen as an increasingly unpopular president and immigration policies (or lack there of) that are simply ludacris. This is not a matter of race, it’s a matter of Malthusian logic. As a country we simply can not accomodate practically all of Mexico, Central America, and South America in our own borders. The people who are coming from these countries are fleeing the plight of the third world, but it is not up to us to solve problems which there own governments have an implied duty to address, furthermore, it is beyond our ability as a nation to do so. You members of the left get so bent out of shape when someone actually articulate and educated conveys this message to the American public on a massive scale via national news. Heaven forbid we should actually make real progress as a nation and fix our broken borders or create disincentives which would discourage illegal immigration in the first place.
on September 24th, 2009 at 4:15 pm
CNN has become what everyone said it was in the beginning, the Chicken network. A bunch of terrified old white men who clearly are showing their age by scapegoating any thing that reminds them that they are no longer in charge. They have become the 21st century version of Mcarthyism. Have they no shame? Nope. Tell you what–I will never watch CNN again –that is except to find out who the commercial sponsors are during the Lou Dobbs show, contact their parent companies and refuse to buy any of their products. I’m seriously wondering what kinds of drugs these people must be on in order to stomach what they do for a living. Oh, well—the clock is ticking on CNN.
on September 25th, 2009 at 10:57 pm
Moreover, I think Dobbs is at the wrong network. He should join Fox with the rest of his croonies.
on September 28th, 2009 at 8:17 am
“John Criswell said,
Thanks for those pearls of “wisdom”? from your novel “The Grapes of Crap”,
Thats it? Thats the best the anti-American pro communists like you have?
Pathetic.
Borders on countries are there for a reason. The fact that you hate America and want it destroyed from within is sad.
Whats sad is that you aren’t smart enough to recognize a simple fact. Do you lock your doors or leave them open and unlocked with all your valuable exposed?
America needs to lock its doors and keep its valuables safe from all who would like nothing more than to rob us.
Inviting friends over is fine. Controlled immigration is fine.Illegal immigration is wrong and irresponsible.
Barry could end all the questions by doing one very simple thing, but he refuses to do so. You know why? It’s because there is something he is embarrassed about on his birth certificate. Something very embarrassing. So he spends millions of dollars keeping it very secure and hidden from view.
on September 28th, 2009 at 9:19 pm
Notice all these wingnut attacks sound the same?
They all speak with a demeaning tone.
They are all fear based.
They all contain the same themes.
They are all so similar in content, it is as if they are written by the same person.
Hmmm
on October 19th, 2009 at 5:33 pm
I think crewoldt said it right…but I would specify that it’s wingnuts on both ends of the political spectrum.