Hatewatch Tweets
Hatewatch is managed by the staff of the Intelligence Report, an investigative magazine published by the Alabama-based civil rights group Southern Poverty Law Center.
New SPLC Report: Return of the Militias
The 1990s saw the rise and fall of the virulently antigovernment “Patriot” movement, made up of paramilitary militias, tax defiers and so-called “sovereign citizens.” Sparked by a combination of anger at the federal government and the deaths of political dissenters at Ruby Ridge, Idaho, and Waco, Texas, the movement took off in the middle of the decade and continued to grow even after 168 people were left dead by the 1995 bombing of Oklahoma City’s federal building — an attack, the deadliest ever by domestic U.S. terrorists, carried out by men steeped in the rhetoric and conspiracy theories of the militias.
In the years that followed, a truly remarkable number of criminal plots came out of the movement. But by early this century, the Patriots had largely faded, weakened by systematic prosecutions, aversion to growing violence, and a new, highly conservative president.
As we report today (see complete report here), they’re back. Almost a decade after largely disappearing from public view, right-wing militias, ideologically driven tax defiers and sovereign citizens are appearing in large numbers around the country. “Paper terrorism” — the use of property liens and citizens’ “courts” to harass enemies — is on the rise. And once-popular militia conspiracy theories are making the rounds again, this time accompanied by nativist theories about secret Mexican plans to “reconquer” the American Southwest.
One federal law enforcement agency has found 50 new militia training groups — one of them made up of present and former police officers and soldiers. Authorities around the country are reporting a worrying uptick in Patriot activities and propaganda. “This is the most significant growth we’ve seen in 10 to 12 years,” says one. “All it’s lacking is a spark. I think it’s only a matter of time before you see threats and violence.”
A key difference this time is that the federal government — the entity that almost the entire radical right views as its primary enemy — is headed by a black man. That, coupled with high levels of non-white immigration and a decline in the percentage of whites overall in America, has helped to racialize the Patriot movement, which in the past was not primarily motivated by race hate. One result has been a remarkable rash of domestic terror incidents since the presidential campaign, most of them related to anger over the election of Barack Obama.
At the same time, ostensibly mainstream politicians and media pundits have helped to spread Patriot and related propaganda, from conspiracy theories about a secret network of U.S. concentration camps to wholly unsubstantiated claims about the president’s country of birth.
The latter claims from the so-called “birthers” first gained traction when far-right hard-liners like writer Jerome Corsi, politician Alan Keyes and Watergate felon and radio show host G. Gordon Liddy questioned the validity of the president’s birth certificate. But they have picked up speed thanks to the likes of Lou Dobbs, the CNN and radio host who has repeatedly demanded that Obama “show the documents” proving his citizenship — this despite the fact that the birther claims had been thoroughly debunked by a guest host of Dobbs’ own CNN show and by many others.
As Chip Berlet, an analyst of the radical right at Political Research Associates, said in a recent report: “The current political environment is awash with seemingly absurd but nonetheless influential conspiracy theories, hyperbolic claims and demonized targets. And this creates a milieu where violence is a likely outcome.”
Fifteen years ago, the Southern Poverty Law Center wrote then-Attorney General Janet Reno to warn about extremists in the militia movement, saying that the “mixture of armed groups and those who hate” was “a recipe for disaster.” Just six months later, Oklahoma City’s federal building was bombed.
Today, the Patriot movement may not have reached the level of white-hot fury that it did in the 1990s. But the movement clearly is growing again, and Americans, in particular law enforcement officers, need to take the dangers it presents seriously. That is equally true for the politicians, pundits and preachers who, through pandering or ignorance, abet the growth of a movement marked by a proven predilection for violence.
on August 12th, 2009 at 7:37 am
I strongly believe that your organization is giving the “Constitutional Militia” a bad reputation when you release “reports” like this. There is a major difference between the Constitutional Militia and an extremist group. All the examples you’ve listed are not militias, they are extremist groups or “lone wolf” extremists. If you read the by-laws of the many “Constitutional Militias” in this country, you will see that none of them support or tolerate any acts of violence of racism. If you are to be considered a reliable source, not a leftist smear group, you should make these points clear. It disturbs me that people like you are being taking seriously. Your organization does do a lot of good, too bad you have an obvious political agenda.
on August 12th, 2009 at 7:58 am
I just heard a sound byte on the radio from a represenative of your organization, claiming militia numbers are increasing because we have a “black president.” While I certainly don’t condone violent vigilantes, to infer that so- called” angry white men” are swelling the numbers of anti-goverment groups is absurd. Hard working, law abiding people are streaming into town hall meetings on health care or other socio-economic issues, because they don’t believe in the socialistic agenda that Barack Obama, and, for that matter, Pelosi, Reed, Frank, Dodd–all of the usual suspects, whose mantra is always “do as WE say, not as we DO.) are cramming down people’s throats. Last time I looked–other than the president, the aforementioned were white. That’s hardly a reason to claim a race angle to your argument. But it’s not surprising–given the fact organizations such as yours always play the race card, especially when you have no valid argument
on August 12th, 2009 at 8:30 am
what is wrong with people? it states in the constitution that the states are free to maintain a militia. there is nothing against that or wrong about it. its articles like this that make people believe everything is fine. maybe there wont be a take over of NWO, but there is something going to happen, the economy isnt getting better, and gas prices are going back up. not a good sign. and it has nothing to do with obama being black, its the fact that NO ONE has seen his AMERICAN BIRTH CERTIFICATE. just the testimony of the hawaiin guy that says he seen it. WHAT DOES THAT PROVE TO US!?!?!?! we as citizens have a right to see it and to maintain a state militia. if you think thats wrong, go back to school and go through social studies and world history class!
on August 12th, 2009 at 8:39 am
Demonizing the militias won’t do any good. They’re going to continue to flourish, because we are in a downward spiral in this country, and the game is over. Empire America is fading fast, and with every passing day we will be heading closer to the bottom.
Am I a “patriot?” Hell, no. I’m a realist. We formed a militia in my area for self defense, and those who think all of this is just so much nonsense I don’t mind at all. There’s nothing that can be said that will change things.
The country is on the way out. Civil upheaval will occur on a gigantic scale and it will likely break along lines of politics, race and ethnicity. The brainwashed multicults get their programming short-circuited when the read something like that, but they’re so brainwashed they wouldn’t recognize a threat if it came up and bit them on the ass. Anything they have to say is no more than a conditioned reflex from one of Pavlov’s dogs.
You know, the one great thing about being right in this instance, is that no argument is necessary. All the PC robots have to do is wait for about another year, when things begin to get really desperate and even they won’t be able to deny that collapse is emminent. Don’t believe that? Well, just wait a while, then see for yourself.
http://www.prisonplanet.com/ge.....-2012.html
on August 12th, 2009 at 10:10 am
James Majors
With due respect I take umbrage at your use of the term “race card”.
It is possible to talk about race without being a racist. It seems that some segments of our society believe that any mention of race is tantamount to a card game.
I do not know where in the country you reside, nor can I opine on your friends, family, and associates. But it strikes me that you must either have a hermetic lifestyle if you are unaware of the bigotry that is part of the so-called Patriot movement (which I will address in a moment).
In recent days, a number of incidents have come to light that show the close relationship between this movement — which is motivated by the loss of political clout at the federal level during the last elections — and its increasingly prominent displays of bigotry.
Here are some blatently racist charicatures of President Obama published by an Arizona-based anti-immigrant group called USA:
http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.c.....merica.php
Here is a Swastika that the anti-Obama health care protesters spraypainted on this Georgia lawmaker’s wall in protest of health care reform:
http://www.11alive.com/news/lo.....yid=133691
I recognize that not every person who is involved with the political opposition to this Administration’s reforms is a racist or a bigot. I also recognize that it is possible to have bigoted opinions or stereotypes without necessarily recognizing them as bigoted. A clash of values tends toward the emotional and gutteral rather than reasoned and respectful discourse.
Our nation was founded upon the principles of representative government. The time and place to designate our leaders is during the elections. Once these are decided, it is incumbant upon our citizenry to guide lawmakers decisions, and part of this process surely involves peaceful assembly and empassioned protest.
It seems to me that the increasing polarization of right wing groups, who are now in the political minority, has led to an unusual aglomeration of interests: tax protest, health care protest, and immigration protest. All of these are valid concerns.
Mixed among them are groups and individuals who loathe taxes not because of how the funds are used, but because they are levied at all. There are those who are indeed bigots and white supremacists whose ideas about immigration reform are reminiscent of darker times in our nation’s history, and these groups are allied with the more moderate protesters. There are those who view any effort to designate health care policy as a step toward Stalinism, without truly understanding the issue.
This kind of reactionary thinking is no longer democratic. Our bi-party system relies upon the principles of a loyal opposition. Democracy cannot function if the those who do not win out in elections abandon the political process altogether. Worse, public order disintegrates when the rule of law is abandoned in favor of revenge.
There can be little denying that the radicalization of the right is a threat to the public order. Sheltered by the legitimacy of moderate protest, fringe groups gain credibility and followers with far more dangerous agendas than peaceful assembly.
These are the groups that raise concern about the Patriot movement. If those involved in the Patriot movement do not recognize and repress the rising elements of racism, bigotry and hate within its ranks, the lines between peaceful protesters and violent extremists become increasingly blurred. This does no service to the Patriot movement nor to the democracy which has enabled it to take root and flourish as it has.
on August 12th, 2009 at 10:13 am
The uprising in America has NOTHING to do with a black president. The only people who say conservatives are racist are liberals. This “militia” is average every day Americans, of all colors and all backgrounds standing up and telling our government that we are tired of them wasting our money. We don’t oppose paying taxes, we oppose them wasting it. My husband can’t get health insurance and we are strongly opposed to this bill and this is the last straw for all of us. He had to go to the emergency room and he got right in, no waiting, they ran all the tests, they knew he didn’t have insurance and you know what? All they wanted was a down payment ($50) and they billed us the rest. We’ve been paying $25 bucks a month since then, no interest. I’m happy with that. We have incredible health care in this country and our government is playing Chicago politics to get their agenda done and take control over yet another aspect of our lives that doesn’t need them. Had they left the economy alone (Bush included) we would have bounced back without raising taxes on anyone. Read history. And the only violence going on is from the left with SEIU and Acorn. Don’t blame people with a voice loud enough to pierce Washington’s deaf ears on violence. It’s not us. How dare they link us to McVey or call us UnAmerican. We are the most American we can be.
on August 12th, 2009 at 10:35 am
Interesting article and comments.
Does your organization (SPLC) agree or disagree with the “theory” that Americans are losing their constitutional rights? That the Obama administration, through the bills presented, has added to the loss of our rights such as the right to bear arms, concealed not qualified, the right to life, liberty, property and the pursuit of happiness? The right to freedom of choice relative to medical care? The right NOT to be forced to take drugs or vaccines?
It appears to me constitutional militias have much to be concerned with.
Dr. James Chappell
on August 12th, 2009 at 10:49 am
Your mention in this referenced article of Glenn Beck is, as one would expect, minimally devoid of meaning and at worst simply a calculated lie. You offer no substantiation of Mr. Beck calling “Obama a fascist, a Nazi and a Marxist” and I challenge you to do so in fullness of context. But, most egregious is your statement that he “even re-floated militia conspiracy theories of the 1990s alleging a secret network of government-run concentration camps.” In fact, Mr. Beck spent his time and resources to investigate and completely de-bunk these theories and expose those truly promoting them as complete nut-cases. Those facts apparently don’t matter to you, unless it is CNN doing the debunking as you later mention regarding Lou Dobb’s. Your bias is showing.
on August 12th, 2009 at 12:14 pm
I was reading through your website and find it to be that the so-called “hate groups” are seemingly only those persons who do not believe what you believe. Then, I read the page on your site about the details of the current hate crimes. Pitiful! You seem to think that single isolated incidences where names were being called justifies a hate crime? Then, further into your website, I read a section on “Teaching Tolerance. The fact is, we all are human beings and we are all different. We come from different cultures and backgrounds so we will have a difference of opinions but unless someone actually acts violently in a manner consistent with true racism, then it’s not racism. So my question to you is, “Since you’re so opposed to the anti-groups, where was your listing as a hate organization?
The news article I read today made me want to see what all the fuss was about and it is my opinion, you are trying to provoke something. We, as a Great Nation, have with-stood the Presidents that we didn’t particularly like or agree with but we, as a nation grew and improved a lot. Granted, there will always be racism and corruption in our governments and our politicians but that all comes from us all being human. I don’t personally care for Lou Dobbs but when I saw that you wanted him removed from the airwaves, you are violating his Freedom of Speech and that alone makes you the biggest hater of all, Our Rights!
on August 12th, 2009 at 12:14 pm
I would have to presume the ignorance of the above writers since they do not know the meaning of a “well regulated militia.” This is a term used in the Constitution referring to what we now have: State National Guards. They are our “Constitutional Militia.”
on August 12th, 2009 at 12:19 pm
I am 100% in favor of militias as long as they are a part of the U S Army. Draft them as soon as they are formed.
Otherwise they have no place in our society.
on August 12th, 2009 at 12:35 pm
to question authority is not hatred, nor is it intolerance.
it seems apparent that you organization is not open to american citizens questioning what seems to be an oppressive and socialist movement in our federal government. is this not a constitutional right? do not confuse radical behavior exhibited by a minority as the model for those who believe in democratic discourse. this is not about a black president – it is about a government takeover of the private citizenry. don’t create a scenario for your advantage.
on August 12th, 2009 at 12:56 pm
What are the chances for reprimanding “current police officers” who associate themselves with anti-government militia groups?
Surely, you cannot uphold the rule of law as a sworn officer, whereas at the same time–being a member of an anti-government extremist group. You are technically defying the very laws of this country. And I think proper legal action must be taken to address the critical issue of our “current” law enforcement officers in these militia groups. Otherwise, we will have a serious problem with maintaining law and order in this country, due to the officers who partake in the militia movement. I’m willing to join the law enforcement to take their place. And I encourage other non-whites and white women to do the same.
Fight and defend our beloved country and its Freedom.
on August 12th, 2009 at 1:08 pm
All these commenters are wackos. If the stuff this article describes continues and expands, what’s next? Women getting stoned to death for wearing “improper” clothing? An increase in militia’s is a ridiculous overreaction to what’s going on in this country.
on August 12th, 2009 at 2:57 pm
Militias are allowed…and the right of the People to bear arms is a legit right. The Second Amendment was put in the Bill of Rights-ultimately- to secure all the other rights.
Not just whites- but some blacks, Latinos, and Asians- are all involved in militia groups, to various degrees. Legit patriotic opposition to Obama’s radical banker agenda cuts across all groups.
We don’t want high taxes, deficits that bust the currency, rationed health care, extra gov’t surveillance, out of control police forces, or futile foreign wars. We don’t want any of these things, a majority of Americans don’t want these things…yet Obama and his autistic clique represents all of these bad things.
on August 12th, 2009 at 3:46 pm
Years ago, I donated a couple of times to your organization because I thought that you were helping poor people wrongly accused or wrongly treated. I now see that you are dedicated to smearing those who do not agree with your political agenda. I am not part of a militia and neither do I own a gun. However, I am very concerned about the move toward a totalitarian government. This is what we fought against in the Revolutionary War. Have you ever read anything written by the founding fathers about what kind of country this is supposed to be? I guess you disagree with them, also. I think you really need to look in the mirror and search your own soul before you call anyone else racist.
on August 12th, 2009 at 3:56 pm
Hell after looking at this web site and hearing this so called law center on tv it would seen to me that all the other “races” can walk all over the “white man” and this group just dont care. It is always the white mans fault. So when a group of amaricans take up arms people get nervous,Why? are they coming for you? What would you have the goverment do repeal the 2nd amendment? Thats what Hitler did oh and Stallin did also after all we all know the goverment wants unarmed pesants so they can steal money and buy new jets.
Good luck amarica
on August 12th, 2009 at 4:34 pm
Thanks to the other poster who correctly points out that militia membership is totally legal in our country. I’m a middle aged fat little old mom and I AM thinking about joining one! Seriously, they are gaining in popularity because we are NOT stupid and can see Uncle Sam’s bloody fingerprint in the carnage going on in Congress and Washington. These crooks in Washington are tearing up the consititution and using it for toilet paper apparently. Guess what government? We The People are watching YOU!
on August 12th, 2009 at 4:40 pm
All this racial tension could be over in one second if a certain coward would remind everyone he’s MULTIRACIAL, not black, not white. He ackowleged it on his 2000 census form — why not now??? Could it be his silence is his way of inciting racial tension? Could it be he WANTS it to be happening so Americans think about that crisis instead of the devastating chaos his agenda is creating? I don’t have an opinion one way or the other about rising militias. My deepest concern is that blame is put on the wrongest of wrong Americans who have the right to research, clarify and speak. The BLAME GOES TO OBAMA BECAUSE HE COULD STOP THE TENSION AND JUST FLAT WON’T. He’s up to something. Just watch as this worsens because he’ll come out as a great man……perhaps as a man, but not as my president.
on August 12th, 2009 at 4:41 pm
What is your objective evidence that opposition to the administration is based on race hatred and not opposition to expansive government? The temporary custodian of the executive branch is black, but that is not a problem. The problem is that he is expanding the size and power of government more than any president in history. It’s the policies, not his pigmentation. The money, not melanin. One would think it would be hard to outspend 8 years of Bush but he did it in just 200 days. Does size and power of government not concern you? You’d rather keep trying to play the race game. See Alinsky’s Rule #5, I guess.
on August 12th, 2009 at 5:31 pm
“The current political environment is awash with seemingly absurd but nonetheless influential conspiracy theories, hyperbolic claims and demonized targets. And this creates a milieu where violence is a likely outcome.”
By far the most popular conspiracy theory these days is the claim that scholastic and professional underperformance, poverty, widespread criminality, and other problems disproportionately affecting minorities(*) are due to pervasive white racism. No convincing evidence exists in support of this loony thesis, and tons of evidence speaks against it. Nevertheless, this conspiracy theory has been used to justify a wide variety of anti-white (and anti-Asian) policies by public and private organizations.
Rackets like SPLC are, of course, entirely based on the above mentioned conspiracy theory. But they should pay heed to their own advice: promoting anti-white conspiracy theories may beget violence. The epidemic of violence and criminality in the black community following the Civil Rights movement is hardly unrelated to the concomitant endorsement and promotion of anti-white conspiracy theories. Moreover, white racialist radicalism is to a considerable extent a reaction to blatantly racist policies like affirmative action.
(*) By “minorities” I of course mean blacks and Latinos. Asian Americans do not seem to have any problems performing as well or better than whites in most areas of life. This fact is rarely mentioned because it fits so poorly with the widely promoted conspiracy theory of pervasive white racism.
on August 12th, 2009 at 6:15 pm
Bias, Bias, Bias, why don’t you be honest with people and just say, we want to do anything we can to help Obama. Saying people are against him because he is black is the worst kind of propaganda. This just widens the divide in America today.
on August 12th, 2009 at 7:55 pm
“As Chip Berlet, an analyst of the radical right at Political Research Associates, said in a recent report: “The current political environment is awash with seemingly absurd but nonetheless influential conspiracy theories, hyperbolic claims and demonized targets. And this creates a milieu where violence is a likely outcome.”
It is apparent that the author has tunnel vision, Who created the present conditions? And, does the author really think that these opinons and beliefs are just confined to the United States, does the author really think that the community does not think that (911) was a Just Let it Happen with a little added Thermite, An American Poet Loriate of New Jersey claims that Jewish Americans were pre-warned about the attack and did not show up for work that day. Europe believes this to be the fact. Germany considers the Iraq War Illegal, many European countries see our actions in (Af-Pak) as beyond the pail and are now questioning the legality of our actions.. Europe is now suggesting that the Media Messiah Imperial President is in fact a Mossad Plant.
Should Militans be all drafted into the Military it would make no difference, Gen. Robert E. Lee, and many of the senior Officers of the Confederate Army were Union Soldiers along with many of their troops, it about who’s side will they be on the side of their kin and blood or the side of a government that does NOT LISTEN, only dictates.
This Administration has been the most devisive administration since the (60′s), even the department of Homeland Security is affraid they don’t know who in their own organization they can really trust, this is not about terrorism its about citizens (TBAM) Taking Back America Movement, a revolution is not a tea party. It’s New York City, and Washington (DC) District of Clowns against the people.
1. Stop the Gerrymandering of Districts
2. Set Term Limits on all elected officials.
3. Close the Department of Homeland Security and only have the (FBI &CIA)
4. Fire all the Czars
5. , (AIPAC/AZC) American Israel Public Affairs Committee/American Zionist Council, should be a registered foreign lobbying group.
These are just starters. If not it will be just a spark, its either change or the choice is a bloody one.
on August 12th, 2009 at 8:31 pm
If the hatred of the government is not racially motivated by the black president, then where were you and why were you not complaining when Bush was flushing your money down the toilet and lying to the American people. You bloggers that claim there is no racial motivation are flat out liars! You have done nothing but whine and complain since I helped elect him. It is so much fun to listen to your white noise i will gladly vote for him again. I am ashamed of the lack of vision that these writers have! Long live a diverse America and many of us caucasians will be fighting on the side of our brothers and sisters of color! You are not fooling anyone!
on August 12th, 2009 at 9:54 pm
If anyone in this “Law Center” had any understanding of the Constitution and the underlying reasons for a guaranteed right to a militia, and to bear arms, it would be quite apparent to you that the current administration is demonstrating this need. In 200 days, the far left who have stolen control of this country are raping ALL of us of our rights at a dangerously prolific rate.
In the 50′s and 60′s, the fear of communism was rampant in this country. It was subdued in the 70′s, and vanquished in the 80′s after the fall of the USSR, East Germany, and the communist block in Europe. Obama, while not a full fledged communist, is none the less leading us down the path of decline that will soon be beyond the point of no return. I am not a violent person, but strongly believe that I would rather fight for my Constitutional rights AND to save our Republic than to see the scum in Washington, regardless of their race, decimate what is left of our liberty, economy, and our country.
on August 12th, 2009 at 10:40 pm
Donna, I agree strongly with your comment “long live a diverse America”! Regretably, it is highly unlikely that America will live long if the current trend continues. Read your own posts, they are HIGHLY charged racial B.S.
I do not look at ones color, ethnicity, religion, or any other “qualifier” when evaluating their performance. I look at their performance! Those of you who continue to act, speak, and think along lines of race are the ones perpetuating the racial divide in this nation. We do not have a “black” president, we have a man who is doing a very poor job of serving the nation. It seems his idea of serving our nation is to destroy it. There really is no realistic chance that health care can include 30 million more people and get less expensive for anyone. Try thinking….. I am not a republican, a bigot, or a racist. I am an average man who works hard to provide for his family and try provide a bright future for my children. That prospect gets dimmer with every passing day of OUR presidents term, and that scares me!
on August 12th, 2009 at 11:39 pm
Why would SPLC call the oath keepers “worrisome?” Why would they be worried about police and military members who would refuse to obey illegal orders?
Wouldn’t we all want our police and military to understand what an unlawful order is and be willing to disobey it? Which of the OathKeepers “orders we will not obey” does the SPLC have a problem with? Do they actually want a police force and military made up of robots who will blindly follow any and all orders?
And will SPLC at least acknowledge that there are legit militia groups? The second amendment mentions militia, which at the time it was written meant a fighting force comprised of men who took their own guns from home to muster for training or to fight. Ever wonder why it says “A well regulated militia, being neccessary for the security of a free state,….?” You think the founders went to the effort of putting in the amendment just to say we ought to have a standing army. NO, they meant MILITIA were neccessary. But SPLC wants to use the “M-word” in a derogatory sense.
on August 13th, 2009 at 12:25 am
Donna, it frightens me that we have voters as uninformed as you. Fiscal conservatives were outraged by Bush. We actually believed he would be difficult to outspend, but see Howard Silverberg’s comment above. It is ironic that you proclaim, “Long live America” and then cast a vote that will ensure future generations are chained to a previously unimaginable debt. I hope it’s not too “hateful” to say we need IQ tests for admittance to polling places. If Obama was white and engaging in this expansion of power, you believe the outrage would be different? Foolish.
on August 13th, 2009 at 2:56 am
The racists and nutjobs are out in full force, defending their hatred and parroting the lies. They klnow they’re being exposed, and they want to try and discredit the facts.
I say the administration needs to crack down on these violent, hateful scum.
on August 13th, 2009 at 7:04 am
I wonder what all the good people arguing for the proliferation of “militia” groups think about gangs. The same people in the 1980s said gangs are the greatest threat to America. Now they are forming gangs of their own. We need stiff anti-militia legislation patterned after the laws to discourage gangs.
on August 13th, 2009 at 7:13 am
Dave said,
on August 12th, 2009 at 2:57 pm
Militias are allowed…and the right of the People to bear arms is a legit right. The Second Amendment was put in the Bill of Rights-ultimately- to secure all the other rights.
Not just whites- but some blacks, Latinos, and Asians- are all involved in militia groups, to various degrees. Legit patriotic opposition to Obama’s radical banker agenda cuts across all groups.
We don’t want high taxes, deficits that bust the currency, rationed health care, extra gov’t surveillance, out of control police forces, or futile foreign wars. We don’t want any of these things, a majority of Americans don’t want these things…yet Obama and his autistic clique represents all of these bad things.
————————–
Dave,
Here are some facts for you to consider:
“Militias are allowed…and the right of the People to bear arms is a legit right. The Second Amendment was put in the Bill of Rights-ultimately- to secure all the other rights.”
The 2nd clearly states the rationale is for the security of the State. It does not mean you can violate the rule of law at gunpoint. We had an election and Obama won. It is time to respect the rule of law. The 2nd entitles you to keep and bear a dangerous weapon if and only if you are loyal to the State, not if you are opposed to it. That is why felons are prevented from owning weapons.
“We don’t want high taxes, deficits that bust the currency, rationed health care, extra gov’t surveillance, out of control police forces, or futile foreign wars. We don’t want any of these things, a majority of Americans don’t want these things…yet Obama and his autistic clique represents all of these bad things.”
You are forgetting that before the Republicans took over eight and half years ago, we had a balanced budget. The reason why taxes are going to go up has nothing to do with Obama. It has to do with George W Bush and his insane war, supply side economics straight out of the GOP playbook, and complete lack of regulatory oversight during the Republican administration.
You do have a right to protest but could you please get your facts straight?
on August 13th, 2009 at 9:07 am
Wow, have you got things confused. Obama is little more than a continuation of Bush. If you knew the extent that I lobbied against Bush, you would be shocked.
Obama put into place to fix the economy the exact people who helped deregulate it: Summers, Cass, Geithner…et al. Both Bush and Obama obey the radical bankers.
The Second Amendment says “…the right of the people…”
on August 13th, 2009 at 9:09 am
…”the right of the people…”
…is a broader definition than, say, the right of the “state.”
on August 13th, 2009 at 9:13 am
“..violate the rule of law at gunpoint” clarify this, please.
on August 13th, 2009 at 9:45 am
We are all connected and as a people we often use the medium of government to do things collectively that one man cannot do for himself. Who of the above writers would like to do without the following “socialist” institutions: police, fire dept, army, social security, medicare, municipal water systems, VA services and hospitals, public schools …. Think about it!
on August 13th, 2009 at 10:07 am
I see that this report has stung those brainwashed by the Dominionists and the bigots. They’re trolling in droves.
Keep up the good work.
on August 13th, 2009 at 10:20 am
These militia groups are all reading the revolutionary “Battle of Jakes” story on the internet. This story is really frightening……
on August 13th, 2009 at 10:41 am
It looks like the radical right. etc. have zeroed in on the SPLC. It is sad that this country has devolved into a know-nothing shout-out. There is good reason for literate, well meaning Americans to be afraid of what is happening. Many of the shouters and the new militia have no idea how they are being manipulated by groups that have little interest in our constitutional government or in intelligent, sensible discourse. Having taught “civics” in the 1960s I faced similar attitudes from people who were racists, bigots, and those who truly wanted to control the thought process. Many reactionary parents wanted books like “Grapes of Wrath” and the writings of Langston Hughes removed from district approved reading lists. We seem to be headed back down that awful road that led to riots and white flight of that time. It is fear of the unknown and a helpless feeling that brings many into the control of the manipulators.
Keep up the great work that you are doing SPLC!
Keep trying to educate the public!
on August 13th, 2009 at 10:47 am
Thank you for your work on these issues and especially for this report. I’ve been very concerned about this ‘movement’ for some time and have been most interested in the groups that want our country to become a Theocracy under their particular brand of religion. If these groups get together with the anti-government groups; where will that lead?
I would like to know why the Smith Act cannot be used against these people. It says…
it is a criminal offense for anyone to
“ knowingly or willfully advocate, abet, advise or teach the duty, necessity, desirability or propriety of overthrowing the Government of the United States or of any State by force or violence, or for anyone to organize any association which teaches, advises or encourages such an overthrow, or for anyone to become a member of or to affiliate with any such association. ”
Please tell me which part of this is NOT being advocated by them?
on August 13th, 2009 at 11:27 am
Okay, let’s PLEASE get some historical facts straight.
The response to “Dave” regarding the 2nd amendment is laughable. “Clearly states?” “Facts?” The amendment references, “[...]the security of a FREE state[...]” (emphasis added, obviously.) It does NOT condition the right on absolute LOYALTY to “the state” regardless of what form the state might take in the future. Its purpose was indeed opposite that. Have a modicum of intellectual honesty and remember, please, that the Bill of Rights is about guarantees to the people, not a promise of blind loyalty to “the state” regardless of its form.
You are also rewriting history when you say we had a balanced budget before the Republicans took over. Clinton had a balanced budget (and restricted the growth of government more than any president in the last 40 years other than Regan) because he had divided government to keep him in check. Remember 1994. That is fact.
on August 13th, 2009 at 1:36 pm
You people need to cease and desist this kind of alarmist smear propaganda. What the militias are concerned with is not a race issue but a constitutional issue. They see the eroding of our constitutional rights by an increasingly socialist
government agenda taking its orders from the global elite.
Whether it is Bush or Obama, black or white, doesn’t matter,
only the preservation and defense of our Constitution.
Don’t forget: the very same Constitution that protects our right to remove a tyrannical government, by force if necessary, also protects your right to publish misleading, inaccurate trash such as this.
on August 13th, 2009 at 1:53 pm
I posted above, but wanted to add here what my idea of what real racism is. I think it was racist for the government to enact programs that destroyed the black family. I think it is racist for those in government to refuse to allow school choice.
Beholder, I would like to ask you to consider moving beyond this Democrat vs. Republican thing.
I am convinced that the same “moneyed elite” (or whatever else you want to call them) select the presidential nominees of both parties. I believe they also profit from the world-wide drug trade and are involved in corrupt governments all over the world. Think of all the good people in this world. Somewhere, somehow, at least one of them would end up in charge of a country if it weren’t for a powerful force working against it. And since you mentioned gangs, the laws against them are working really well, aren’t they? Maybe because of the financial benefit of Some People from the drug trade. By the way, the “moneyed elite” do not hate black people more than they hate the rest of us. But they treat them very badly, as a way of causing division in this country. And, of course, they need powerless people to participate in the drug trade. And one more piece of my conspiracy theory: They want to depopulate the earth. (Hint: don’t take the vaccine). That ends my conspiracy and I didn’t even mention reptiles, so I realize that my theory is not complete.
And, beholder, there is nothing in the Constitution about a loyalty oath to “the State”. I don’t think the founding fathers ever referred to this country as “the State”. Your radical mindset is showing.
on August 13th, 2009 at 2:13 pm
Why is it that everytime extremist groups are brought up there is no mention of the liberal groups? Black Panthers, Animal Liberation Front, and others are to me just as bad as the neo-nazi’s are. There have and always will be extremism on both sides. For every Timothy McVeigh on the far right, there is a Ted Kaczynski on the far left. Is there not a tendancy for groups on both sides to label someone who does not hold their political view or advance their agenda as radical or extremist?
Beholder,
Bill Clinton started the de-regulation of the banks and Wall Street. Look it up.
on August 13th, 2009 at 2:38 pm
I never forgot about the surplus Bush inherited.
Bush and Obama both obey the radical bankers
..”the right of the people”…is a more wide a definition than the “right of the state”
on August 13th, 2009 at 3:27 pm
Thank you for the report. I have been aware of this but did not realize they had all those automatic weapons and seems most participants were wearing bullet proof vests. They are probably more heavily armed than some rural police depts. This has been a fear of mine for a while. Just hope I’m on the right side when a show down happens. With all the ugliness at health care reform town halls and the right wing nasty loudmouths, I’m a bit frightened but it will not stop me. As a pro-choice advocate, Gandhi and MLK fan, I’ll carry on!!
on August 13th, 2009 at 3:31 pm
To the person who evokes the 2nd ammendment, that document was written in the late 1700′s. There were no assault or automatic weapons at that time. Would you go back to the weapons of the 1700′s? Then and only then can you evoke that ammendment.
on August 13th, 2009 at 4:15 pm
Sarah Kessel said,
on August 13th, 2009 at 11:27 am
.
The response to “Dave” regarding the 2nd amendment is laughable. “Clearly states?” “Facts?” The amendment references, “[...]the security of a FREE state[...]” (emphasis added, obviously.)
You are also rewriting history when you say we had a balanced budget before the Republicans took over.
—————-
Sarah you’re just splitting hairs.
A free state is one in which we have government by consent. Consent means voting and respecting the results of the vote. It does not mean everybody gets to do their own thing if they don’t like the outcome of the elections. If a militia forms to OPPOSE the state and its freely elected leaders, by definition, it is no longer necessary for the security of the free State. In fact, it becomes an impediment the security of the free state and should be crushed like a bug.
Does that mean the government can infringe upon the right of the militias to keep and bear arms?
Yes It Can!
Also your fact is wrong about Clinton and the budget. I correct myself though, the budget was balanced not taking into account Social Security. The social security budget transcends any one Administration. However It went into deficit as soon as Bush got his blood soaked hands on the reins. He spent at least $3 trillion on Iraq alone.
Here is a graph to help visualize why Republicans are the worst thing to happen to our country since 1979.
http://zfacts.com/p/318.html
on August 13th, 2009 at 4:28 pm
Oakcats said,
on August 13th, 2009 at 2:13 pm
?
Beholder,
Bill Clinton started the de-regulation of the banks and Wall Street. Look it up.
———–
Yes of course.
But the sugar didn’t hit the fan until Bush took over. I knew and a lot of other people knew that this was going to me a massive, massive financial crisis at the time the Bush adminstration and his GS boys pushing it to the brink were still poo-pooing the brewing crisis. Maybe if Bush had his eye on the ball instead of his terrorist mugshot poster with its red Xs it could have been prevented. The speculation on people’s misfortune (credit default swaps) was not a Clinton era phenomenon. It was sheer recklessness allowed, even encouraged, by the worst president (Bush) this country has ever had.
on August 13th, 2009 at 4:36 pm
Connie McMurray said,
on August 13th, 2009 at 1:53 pm
Beholder, I would like to ask you to consider moving beyond this Democrat vs. Republican thing
—————
I’m with you there Connie — I happen to be an Independent.
However I cannot accept a scenario where Bush and the Republicans set fire to the economy then the same people turn around and blame that the economy is getting wet when the Democrats show up to put out the flames. Obama is being wrongly accused of many things, and the complete incompetence of the previous Adminstration is the primary if not exclusive reason why spending is going up under the current Administration.
It is an absolute lack of disrespect to our President to blame him for what Bush did and failed to do. He should have been impeached.
on August 13th, 2009 at 4:47 pm
Connie McMurray said,
on August 13th, 2009 at 1:53 pm
And since you mentioned gangs, the laws against them are working really well, aren’t they?
————-
No they are a failure because they function only as a final stage intervention, when crime has already bloomed, rather than focusing on the root causes of gangs. They exist to appease the middle class, predominately white majority, who feel that tougher policing is the way to solve crime. The truth is that by the time the police get involved, it is really already too late.
However, in Texas for example, where I reside, state law permits travelling with a concealed firearm in your vehicle under the Castle doctrine. That means, if you drive to the egrocery store, you are entitled to go armed. However, anti-gang legislation prohibits any gang member from travelling with a firearm. While I own firearms and believe ordinary citizens have that right if permitted under state law, I am suggesting that the right to keep and bear arms be infringed if the citizen in question is a member of a milita group whose stated purpose is to destabilize the federal government.
And I must reject your accusation that I am being radical. The right to keep and bear arms in the Bill of Rights is exceedingly clear about its purpose: to ensure the security of a free state. A free state is that governed by consent of those governed, via elections. Obama won. If there is dissent about his policies, it must be expressed in peaceable assembly as protected under the Constitution. It may not be allowed to disintegrate into chaos and dissolution of the government by armed rabble.
on August 13th, 2009 at 4:52 pm
Amazing that the only derogatory comments posted have been those supporting this report. This shows, to me, that those who are against any militia are unwilling to actually study and/or read the Constitution of the United States.
on August 13th, 2009 at 6:10 pm
Maybe the right wing still thinks there actually ARE weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.
That is the only reason why they would be upset about the result of last year’s elections.
on August 13th, 2009 at 8:57 pm
anytime anyone starts resorting to guns to solve a problem i question their true motives.. we are humans, we have the capacity to solve our differences intellectually. and americans certainly should not be committing violence against each other, our enemies enjoy seeing us do this, it makes us vulnerable to their attacks. it is not a stretch of the imagination to notice that President Obama has been the most scrutinized president in oh…ever…why people if this isnt connected to race? Why have so many americans sat by in apathy, you didnt rise up when the patriot act was enacted-unparralled permission for your governement to meddle into your business without a warrant. Where were you then? you certainly werent with me protesting government invasion into my privacy. The problem is, your elected officials scare me (republicans) and my elected officials (democrats and independents) scare you. I think the Republicans are destroying the country, I t hink the Republicans are into totalitarianism, I think the Republicans have overspent the hell out of my tax payer dollars. I dont like spending my taxes to support your war…see , it works both ways…we have a mutual disdain of each other…that’s fine. but dont bring your gun to the town hall meeting unless your intentions are more than civilized democratic debate. because when you do, you are parallel to the vitrolic suicide bomber from a repressive government–your message is lost and your organization is revealed as a violent regime with no real purpose.
and for all you folks who think those of us who identify racism when we see it, you are actually the problem–people are tired of you ignoring that racial reconciliation in this nation means progress and offers hope and stability for our citizens not only within our borders but on a global context as well. you dont want to talk about slavery and the past history of african americans in america? how convenient, but it doesnt work that way after you oppress a group of people for hundreds of years…
so go ahead and spiral on out there in that ozone with your militias and your gun by your side.
on August 13th, 2009 at 9:14 pm
Doris,
You now display your ignorance in a shining fasion. The British oppressors of the 1700′s had basically the same weapons as the colonists who fought their oppression.
I am a gun owner, but am not an advocate of anyone owning fully automatic weapons. They have been illegal since early in the 20th century. I can and will invoke the 2nd Amendment any time my rights are threatened. An armed citizenry is the final wall of defense against any who would seek to oppress the people of a free nation. I do not believe that 18th century weapons would be effective in that endeavor.
When you mention “assault weapons”, your ignorance shines like a beacon. The appearance of a weapon, which is what most far left loons catagorize these weapons by, has very little impact on their lethality.
It does concern me that some of these far right “militia” groups could become an actual problem for those of us who wish to bring about real and effective change to this nation by peaceful means. I do, however, reserve the RIGHT to join or form a militia if my liberty and freedom are in jeopardy.
Had the revolutionists of our great nation taken your paranoid, narrow minded view of the “danger” of armed citizen, we would still be a colony. I for one will never sit on my hands and watch our Constitution be thrown to the wind.
on August 14th, 2009 at 10:28 am
jmal93 is absolutely right.
anybody who says you need a weapon like that to hunt or protect your home is out of their mind. in the vast majority of instances when people have to defend their homes with firearms, they don’t have time to grab and load a weapon like that (and letting one sit around loaded is stupid beyond belief, especially if you have kids or if there is a risk of it being stolen).
Typically a handgun is lethal and plenty intimidating, and these should be locked in a safe. by the way, in the unfortunate chance you do have to use a weapon to protect yourself or your family and somebody gets killed, a jury is going to be a lot more sympathetic to someone with a repeating rifle, shotgun or revolver than someone with a tricked out AR-15 with laser sights and 80 round magazine and body armor.
Aggravated assault charges are no joke. The best thing for self defense is to dial 911 and hide till the police get there, if you can. We don’t need vigilantes.
on August 14th, 2009 at 11:58 am
beholder said…
“While I own firearms and believe ordinary citizens have that right if permitted under state law [...]”
beholder, this illustrates that not only do you not understand the 2nd amendment and its very purpose, you don’t really understand the term “right.” Rights are not something that are permitted or disallowed. They are only guaranteed. I feel sorry for you but you write well enough (and I suspect you’re young enough) that I have hope you will learn to read and think critically. All the best to you.
on August 14th, 2009 at 7:59 pm
Hmm, Beholder, i don’t see an equivalence between militias and gangs.
“typically a handgun is lethal and plenty intimidating and these should be locked in a safe”
if one has a handgun in the home for self defense, having it “locked in a safe” is asinine. what good would it be? Would you ask the intruder to pause while you unlock your safe to retrieve your gun? How can you “intimidate” anyone if your gun is locked in a safe?
if you own a gun and its NOT necessarily meant for protection, fine, lock it up. But if your firearm is meant for home protection,
you may have even jeopardized lives by advising one to lock a hand gun in a safe. Home defense guns have to be at the ready, or whats the point of having them?
you’re asleep, then you are awakened at 3 am by a deranged intruder in the hall, your gun has to be handy. The cops are not your teddy bear, they wont be with you in your room to save you. thousands of Americans save themselves each year because they are prepared. someone defending themselves in their home is not a “vigilante”
Legally, yes, you have to escape or hide, if you can, but thats not always an option.
telling people to lock their handguns in a safe was bad and potentially very dangerous advice. I’m glad you weren’t my gun safety and self defense instructor.
.
on August 14th, 2009 at 8:09 pm
…using a small strongbox by the head of the bed if the key is always very near….is appropriate for some home situations
on August 15th, 2009 at 1:05 am
Dear SPLC sirs;
For the sake of Argument, I am going to take you at your face value as just a bunch of citizens concerned about the rise of Extremist violence ( however you may define it). In truth there are a lot of violent people in this world and in this nation also. In addition there are also many treacherous people, who while themselves do not use violence, conspire to cause violence to befall others, usually by duping one group to commit violence against another group. Then the themselves take a (false) position of self righteous superiority over those who actually commit the violence. As a Christian man of 60 years who wants to start a new carreer in the ministrty, I have renouncecd the use of violence, even against those who richly deserve it, But even more I feel that it is my duty to expose those who pose as sheep whilst they serve ravenous wolves.
Therefore I cannot allow you to maintain the facade of oppposing violence when in fact your organization is nothing but a bunch of shills for the worlds international Bankster establishment, which has promoted most of the worlds bloodshed over the last century. I say you are shills because you deliberately cover up the role of the governments of the western world in this endeavor. Specifically you actively seek to defame and denigrate anyone who goes beyond a general suggestion that the government does not have clean hands and who digs up the “dirt ” and the bodies that the establishment wants to keep buried. The tradeoff for your organization seems to be to put in in street terms ” the SPLC and the ADL will cover the esablishments back and smear their opponents as long as the establishment backs the State of Israel.”
Now before you all start hollering anti semite, let me make my position clear. I am a Bible believing christian who believes that the House of Israel of which Judah and Benjamin were two of the twelve tribes, has the Land of the present state of Israel as its God given inheritance. I beleive it because God said so, but as usual you Jews have lost the plot. The Lord is thy strength and deliverer, in Him are you to place your trust, not the world class band of thieves known as the international merchant banksters.
Most of the Militia patriots you oppose understand the difference betwen the Lord God and the owners of the Banks.(and yes befoe you can smear me, let me state that I know that by far the vast majority of the Banksters are not Jews) It is to your woe that you have chosen the wrong side to support. Think on that seriously before it is too late for your personal salvation.
on August 15th, 2009 at 8:55 am
Don’t include the NRA in your enemies list. While it’s true we have some nut cases in our ranks it is SUPPOSED to enable everyone, including you, to protect yourself against violence at the moment it happens, not in some future courtroom.
on August 15th, 2009 at 10:47 pm
Thank you, thank you, thank you Southern Poverty Law Center. Love, from one of the millions of people who benefit from your tireless fight against violent extremism.
on August 18th, 2009 at 9:09 pm
sarah
people who suggest that the right to keep and bear arms should be limited to a muzzle loading flintlock miss the point entirely. I shall try to enlighten you.
George Washington was arguably the most experienced American when it came to the value of a citizens militia facing trained troops. This was because he spent six years fighting the British and eventually defeating the most well trained army and most skilled Generals largely using guerrilla tactics with short term militia, who were experienced as hunters not soldiers.
His opponent was the British Army that had been steeped in organized warfare for nine hundred years ever since the time of Alfred the great and the Saxon kings. Great Britain had developed the first professional non conscript army since the Roman times and Its general command of open field army to army tactics was second to none, as even the great Napoleon was to discover thirty years hence. Basically they trained soldiers to go through a loading and firing drill that enabled each man to fire his musket four times a minute, and to stand and pour these lead storms into an enemy fifty to a hundred feet away in massed volleys .When in three ranks against a charging enemy that meant a wall of lead from each regiment three hundred bullets strong every five seconds. . They used muskets because the smooth bore weapons were much faster to load and at that range in the clouds of smoke they did not need accuracy. Just point it at the enemies stomach and fire.
The Americans, if they had had military experience at all, it was against the Indians who fought using natural cover instead of marching side by side into short range volleys. and the Americans used the same rifles that they hunted with. They were slow to load because the bullet had to be wrapped in a patch and rammed home and most of them did not use paper cartridges but a horn so the power was slower to put in, , On the average these weapons took thirty to forty seconds to load,
The advantage was accuracy and an average American who hunted using something as a rest could reliably fire a lethal shot at 100 yards and the best marksmen at two hundred, (They had to because if you missed that indian at 100 yards and one of your buddies didn’t pop him he was on you with his tomahawk before you could reload.)
The British usually won most close range line to line battles until the Americans learned to engage a long range having the front lines fall back from the advancing British until successive lines had thinned their ranks enough so the did not have enough men left to advance into the fire and then, usually the British general would have them retreat and regroup. The battle of Cowpens was where this tactic was first perfected.
But the principle was clear to Washington and from Fort Green until Yorktown he practiced mostly the art of strategic retreat, never engageing head on unless he had surprize or overwhelming numbers and artillery support.
In short Washington beat the British best because he had developed a tactic to use against the best Army in the world, and guerrilla armies have been copying his playbook ever since. The new weapon that made the new tactic possible was the Rifle, the American Rifle and it was this weapon, the best in the world, that Washington signed the law in 1796 defining the previously slighty vague definition of Militia as every able bodied man in America from 17 to 45, and it was this rifle, the most advanced fire arm in the world that each American was required by law to keep handy, together with powder and ammunition.
The principle of the armed citizen able to engage in guerrilla warfare and with a weapon that is equal or superior to that of what any army in the world carries today is what is protected by the second amendment. and the purpose of the militia is to protect against tyranny which ALWAYS comes in the form of Armed force directed by a government.
The Irony of the current situation is the long standing American gun culture and its anti government attitude is what has kept in check the designs of the east coast financial hierarchy and their co conspirators from ravaging this republic for so long that airheads like some of the previous writers believe there are no internal threats at all
What I really think should happen is for each of those American bubble heads to go live in a border village in or Serbia Israel or Armenia or Tibet and find out what it is like to live under the guns of an Oppressor.
Then ya think we wouldn’t have to get stupid comments like the second amendment guarantees the right to use a 200 year old flintlock to oppose a modern assault weapon.
on August 19th, 2009 at 9:16 am
When I first got active in the patriot movement, one of my goals was to unite all militia units within The United States under some kind of allegiance with a main purpose of communication and unity. What I learned was that most militias operating in America are using the patriot movement to further their own personal agendas which range from many extreme and radical theologies. Some are pure racists while others are religious radicals, and then you have the radical religious racists. There are only a handful of actual militias operating today and I have found the rest to be just a bunch of guys with guns who wear camo. I would also be inclined to say that 99% of American militias have been infiltrated by FBI agents and or informants, if not actually being started and run by the FBI. I have also learned that many individuals within the patriot movement are really informants/narcs and this is why I have now isolated myself from most people and organizations. It is not that hard to point out these individuals if you just sit back and watch what people are doing. Who is always starting trouble within the movement? Who is always pointing fingers and blame at others within the movement when in reality they should be focusing on the true political problems we are all facing? Who is always trying to create infighting within the movement? When you start looking and listening, you will see clearly who these people are. I have found out in life that the person that is constantly telling you they are your best friend and will always have your back, is the first person to put a knife in your back. I do not talk about others in the movement but will tell you that a few of these individuals are highly revered by many and when they are exposed, most will be totally caught off guard and shocked. Many of you reading this article right now have unknowingly befriended FBI/CIA/ATF Agents, undercover law enforcement, informants and narcs. This is the main reason why I have disassociated my self with The American Resistance Movement, while also isolating myself from most others within the so called patriot or truth movements. Most of these people are the real deal but with that said, they have been seriously infiltrated. Learning the truth about all of these things has been very hard for me to accept because I have been such a huge supporter of A.R.M. and other organizations over the past several years that I must now walk away from. It was a good idea but it is over now and I urge you all to move in new directions. You can only really trust yourself, close friends and family in these Orwellian times. I have always said that knowledge is power and that you should share your power. What do you think I meant when I said this? I meant to learn about the truth and share what you learn. Not to share your personal information with others which they can use against you in the future. When it comes to your past and personal background, it is always best to keep these things private, especially if you have had any kind of felony arrest in your past. When you share knowledge about your personal background, you are giving away your power and making yourself vulnerable and a possible target of law enforcement. Keep your private information private. Never reveal too much about yourself or your family and friends. Loose lips sink ships! Remember that you never really know who you are talking to on the internet. Even if you have progressed into phone conversations and even meet-ups, you still never know what is motivating another. Some informants do it for the added excitement that it adds to their lives while others do it because they have been caught up in a felony arrest and have chosen to turn in others in order to save their own skin. I have removed the forums and chat rooms from within my website because I will not stand by while some people with a low mentality end up representing everyone. Some call these people shills or trolls, and all you have to do is read the comments at most patriot sites to get a good idea of this mean, childish and hateful speech. Myself, Alex Jones and a few others within the movement have been the focus of much talk over the past several months on message boards and comment forums, in an effort to discredit our work. Mostly verbal attacks using fabricated lies and cointelpro tactics in a clear attempt to confuse issues and destroy reputations. My own mission is the same as it always has been, and that is to expose the truth within a world of lies. To stop the new world order and their agendas dead in their tracks and I will continue to report what I find, continue to write articles while working on my newest full length movie. I have added a few headlines to search under this article that will demonstrate a little of what I speak of today. Watch your backs people!
Attorney: FBI Trained NJ Blogger To Incite Others
Hal Turner Admits He Worked for the FBI
Turning the US army against Americans
Pentagon Caught Subverting Protest Group
EXCLUSIVE: Defense analyst in spy case was FBI double agent
on August 19th, 2009 at 4:38 pm
Mr. or Ms. Brooks,
Just what do you think is “The Movement?”
You have your own definition and think all the others are loony or narcs, when in fact YOU ARE ALL LOONIES.
You wanted to start a national allied “Movement?” You are advocating the overthrow of the United States Government, a federal felony, and one which could land you in a federal prison for the rest of your life. Keep it up. Keep posting here, that way you will provide more than enough evidence to be used at your trial.
Sincerely yours.
on August 19th, 2009 at 5:05 pm
Haha, good one, Observer.
on August 21st, 2009 at 2:33 pm
david b it sounds like you live in fear. that’s a shame, might be treatable.
on August 21st, 2009 at 6:43 pm
beholder, you gave advice on how to intimidate bad people with guns locked away in safes….then you assumed you knew about my life situation…two strikes. you should quit while your behind.
be more imaginative next time…you know, people like police, etc., keep their guns lose at hand.
on August 21st, 2009 at 7:03 pm
You all might want to actually READ the Constitution of the United States.
Article I, Section 8, clauses 14 and 15:
Clause 14: To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;
Clause 15: To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
Clause 16: To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
Text of the Second Amendment and Related Contemporaneous Provisions
Second Amendment: A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
English Bill of Rights: That the subjects which are protestants may have arms for their defence suitable to their conditions and as allowed by law (1689). 1
Connecticut: Every citizen has a right to bear arms in defense of himself and the state (1818). 2
Kentucky: [T]he right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned (1792). 3
Massachusetts: The people have a right to keep and to bear arms for the common defence (1780). 4
North Carolina: [T]he people have a right to bear arms, for the defence of the State; and, as standing armies, in time of peace, are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be kept up; and that the military should be kept under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power (1776). 5
Pennsylvania: That the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the state; and as standing armies in the time of peace are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be kept up; And that the military should be kept under strict subordination, to, and governed by, the civil power (1776). 6
The right of the citizens to bear arms in defence of themselves and the State shall not be questioned (1790). 7
Rhode Island: The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed (1842). 8
Tennessee: [T]he freemen of this State have a right to keep and bear arms for their common defence (1796). 9
Vermont: [T]he people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the State — and as standing armies in time of peace are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be kept up; and that the military should be kept under strict subordination to and governed by the civil power (1777). 10
Virginia: That a well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defense of a free state; that standing armies, in time of peace, should be avoided as dangerous to liberty; and that in all cases the military should be under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power. 11
So, the main purpose of a “well regulated” militia is to DEFEND OUR COUNTY, not to run around armed in public environments where their mere presence makes a threat to the general welfare and peace of the citizenry.
The “well regulated” militia has been fullfilled by what we now call “The National Guard” of each state. Not nitwits who run around in the woods in camo, playing war. More like “playing” insurrection against the United States! No, you guys have the right in most states to own your semi-automatic assault rifles and pistols, but that doesn’t make it RIGHT. No one can talk you down because you just GET OFF on your supposed masculinity by shooting and carrying BIG GUNS. We all know what the guns are a substitute for.
Clause 16: To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
Text of the Second Amendment and Related Contemporaneous Provisions
Second Amendment: A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
English Bill of Rights: That the subjects which are protestants may have arms for their defence suitable to their conditions and as allowed by law (1689). 1
Connecticut: Every citizen has a right to bear arms in defense of himself and the state (1818). 2
Kentucky: [T]he right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned (1792). 3
Massachusetts: The people have a right to keep and to bear arms for the common defence (1780). 4
North Carolina: [T]he people have a right to bear arms, for the defence of the State; and, as standing armies, in time of peace, are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be kept up; and that the military should be kept under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power (1776). 5
Pennsylvania: That the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the state; and as standing armies in the time of peace are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be kept up; And that the military should be kept under strict subordination, to, and governed by, the civil power (1776). 6
The right of the citizens to bear arms in defence of themselves and the State shall not be questioned (1790). 7
Rhode Island: The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed (1842). 8
Tennessee: [T]he freemen of this State have a right to keep and bear arms for their common defence (1796). 9
Vermont: [T]he people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the State — and as standing armies in time of peace are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be kept up; and that the military should be kept under strict subordination to and governed by the civil power (1777). 10
Virginia: That a well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defense of a free state; that standing armies, in time of peace, should be avoided as dangerous to liberty; and that in all cases the military should be under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power. 11
So,
on August 23rd, 2009 at 10:35 pm
avid said,
on August 21st, 2009 at 6:43 pm
beholder, you gave advice on how to intimidate bad people with guns locked away in safes….then you assumed you knew about my life situation…two strikes. you should quit while your behind.
be more imaginative next time…you know, people like police, etc., keep their guns lose at hand.
———-
So do people who bury their children.
on August 24th, 2009 at 10:32 am
beholder, i guess you eschew autos?
on August 24th, 2009 at 6:20 pm
Aw, please, David, don’t ask beholder anything with the word “eschew” in it. He’ll go into a TIZZY trying to look it up and still won’t understand.
I’m watching and reaing in wonder at the number of wannabe Unibombers here who just want to publish their manifestos.
The so-called pro Militia people have their own selfish adgenda and trying to inform them of their errors is a total waste of time.
They will NEVER understand the articles of our U.S. Constitution that gives rights to a “well regulated” militia, i.e. the states National Guard units, because they want to wear camo and play war. They love their weapons because they substuite for their weak manhood. They love the idea of mobilizing others into their mad schemes because it gives them the same thrill that it gave to A. Hitler.
They call themselves Christians to give them some legitimate cover, but in fact they are HATERS and would NEVER be included in Our Lord’s followers.
I take my lead from the SPLC and ignore them as much as possible, and WATCH them as necessary to our safety.
Ignorant race haters are going to die out someday, just like the dinosaurs. It’s a soul sickness they have and they will never willingly surrender. I leave it up to the Allmighty to take care of them.
on August 25th, 2009 at 9:18 am
David said,
on August 24th, 2009 at 10:32 am
beholder, i guess you eschew autos?
——————
Actions or vehicles?
In either case the answer is no.
As a long time gun owner and member of the US civilian marksmanship program where uncle sam bought my ammo for competition, I can assure you I do have an awareness of gun safety. I had to memorize each and every rule of gun safety before I could step on the range, and as I have said before I do believe the Constitution entitles citizens to arm themselves if permitted under state and local law. In some jurisdictions, I can see value in banning gun ownership, in others not.
I do however eschew irresponsible behavior in the name of liberty. I have seen the free wheeling trade at gun shows where not incidentally Nazi memorabilia is always a big seller. I have also seen the cult of death that goes side by side with with “gun culture”. So certain restraints in the interest of public health and safety make sense. And in my household, that means keeping weapons out of the hands of small children or thieves.
It also means, for example, prohibiting gun ownership by individuals involved in hate groups.
on August 25th, 2009 at 12:57 pm
Observer you just bore false witness against me, shame on you. You also judged me, and you should be ashamed of yourself. Here you are praying openly like the Pharisees seeking the approval of men.
Just because I own firearms you assume, erroneously, that I am in favor of militias. I am about as opposed to militias as anybody in this country. My comments make that clear, but perhaps you did not read them before spitting out your “Christian” value judgements.
By the way your assertation that I don’t understand the word eschew is utterly asinine.
on August 26th, 2009 at 7:09 pm
The Us constitution guarentees the righ to keep and bear arms by any adult American not under criminal sanction by the courts, or who as been court ajudicated as mentally incompetant. Period. The militia was defined by Washington as all adult males and even many of the females. This was codified by congress in an act in 1796. The US Supreme court has so ruled . The 14th amendment states that rights guarenteed by the constitution to Americans may not be abridged by the states, closing that loophole because the Framers were so concerned with federal usurpations that they did not make the tenth ammendment clear enough on that point. That is the law and honest historical scholars admit it. There are so many writings on these subjects from the period that an honest person could not mistake the intent of the framers. Dishonest big government enthusiasts have tried to agarandize the power of government to accomplish what they consider are necesary objectives using a doublethink self justification of their dishonesty. Interstingly enough. this doublethink manifests itself in another way in Israel where all jewish adults are armed with automatic weapons, ( which are of course legally proscribed to palestinians on the grounds they are non citizens). SPLC and ADL somehow think we are unaware of the hypocracy of their position. They do have a bit of a point. From the above posts it would seem that even many gun owners are not aware of the reason we have this right and the need.
A look at pre WW2 Europe would be instructive. The Jews were disarmed and butchered. Being sensble and having such a terrible lesson on the realites of political power so well implanted, Israelis are per capita the best armed people on the planet. a pity that most americans have loaded all their brain cells with garbage from the boob tube.
on August 26th, 2009 at 8:47 pm
I I do not want to be a post hog but there is one more important point that I have neglected to make. It is on the difference between the militia, which is all the adults, and a SELECT militia which is a group of adults selected by a political authority. The reason for the constitutional act of 1796 was that the founding fathers understood and wished to guard against mistaking a SELECT militia synonymous with the term militia. A SELECT militia is as dangerous to freedom as a standing army, because simply the members can be and in fact are selected or deselected on the basis of how well they agree with the political program of those doing the selection. Suppose say the national Guard was called out to quell a campus demonstration and use force, and some members refused, and attempted to argue to other national guardsman they should do the same because their orders were prohibiting constitutionally guaranteed protest. As militia, such as these amateur groups gathering at will, they could just walk away, but as National Guardsmen they would be restrained and subjected to court-martial and even shot if they were perceived as an obstacle to the accomplishment of the politically ordered mission. They are in fact an army in all but name and this is not theoretical discussion. It is not only Kent State but there are many other examples of the SELECT militias serious human rights violations since the Dick act created them in 1906.
The entire purpose of arming the whole adult population was that there would be a broad selection of reasonable people as ORDINARY FIGHTERS who would have to be convinced of the justification of their call to arms before they would heed it. Also They could be called to arms but they were free to ignore the call or leave if they thought that the arms were being misused.
And there is another psychologically more important reason. In the old west the militia as a sheriff’s posse was used to apprehending marauding gangs of criminals. the point is, in frontier societies the people are accustomed to periodically being used to aid Sworn lawmen . They quickly became critical of and replaced those lawmen who refused to do their duty and lead or who did not perform their office well and impartially.
The reason these militia groups are patrolling border property and assisting in the apprehension of illegal ALIENS AND DRUG SMUGGLERS IS THE DISMAL FAILURE OF THE CONSTITUTED AUTHORITIES TO PERFORM THEIR DUTY! And of course these lawmen say that they cannot perform these duties because they lack sufficient manpower. THERE WOULD BE PLENTY OF MANPOWER IF ALL ABLE BODIED ADULT MALES TRAINED AS MILITIA AS WAS ORIGINALLY INTENDED!!
In conclusion it is not the fault of these militia that the government refuses to use them properly. IT IS THE FAULT OF ALL OF YOU WHO FAIL TO DO YOUR DUTY AS MILITIA, AND INSIST THAT GOVERNING AUTHORITIES USE YOU TO ENFORCE THE LAWS AND PROTECT THE PEOPLE OF YOUR COMMUNITIES!!
I f the last sentence sounds absurd to you it is because you have no concept of the civil duties of people in a free to society. You feel free to ignore your responsibilities unless some government agent with a gun is there to enforce them on you. That is a very dangerous mindset but unfortunately it is the mindset most common in America today. And it is why our country is in such a bad way, and it is getting worse. Those who rely on Big Brother to tell them everything they need to do are not citizens. They are slaves.
on August 27th, 2009 at 10:36 am
John B we are not living in the 18th Century.
By the way, the framers of the Constitution didn’t have a problem with slaves at all.
on August 27th, 2009 at 4:12 pm
I think I might be the victim of a citizens court or militia in the small texas town of coldspring. I am not sure who is directing the community to do this?There was a constitutional rights group that bragged about giving some former politicians heart attacks on there website based hereThere is also a militia based in the area. I do not have any info as to there leanings. A former navy seal (current or former deputy)was involved in this militia and passed out literature on the U. N. taking control of our government. They are using some sort of harassment involving ultrasound or sound. This only scratches the surface of what has occurred!
on August 28th, 2009 at 2:12 pm
Beholder
That response was, in my opinion rather lame. But I do indeed take your point. No we are not living in the eighteenth century. The advance of time has brought us many technological benefits. However IMHO it has brought a few problems also.
IMHO these problems stem from the change of attitude of most of the citizens from one of suspicion of big government at vigilantly guarding ones liberties to one of being lazy and expecting big government to do everything for you.
That has brought on much of the current problems. I have been hearing things like “when will the government do something about( fill in the blank here)” for the last forty years. And of course sometimes the government does “something” , usually with programs which entail vast expenditures of tax payers money with little benifit other than to the bank accounts of well connected corporate interests.
Ross Perot looked into the situation and was alarmed enough to run for president. As an insider in the Reform Party I could tell you things “our Government” did to discourage him and other well placed would be reformers that would curl your hair, but since you wouldn’t believe me I won’t bother to post them and besides they are a bit off topic and likely to get edited by the moderator.
Anyway your sentence can mean many things all of them involving double think. Like “we are not living in the eighteenth century so we need “THE GOVERNMENT” to unilaterally change the constitution to suit what “THE GOVERNMENT” thinks we need”. “Or perhaps we are not living in the eighteenth century and now “THE GOVERNMENT” is doing all those things the citizens used to do for themselves.”
Now I could supply volumes of rebuttal to both of these arguments mainly revolving around the many things THE GOVERNMENT has done or not done while complacent citizens got on with whatever other priorities they had. As a student activist in the sixties I spent quite a lot of time trying to correct some of the errors that THE GOVERNMENT made while other citizens who did not study these thing were content to let THE GOVERNMENT get on with things until the excessive number of teens and twenty somethings coming home in boxes gave them a clue that all might not be right in Sodom on the Potomac. I have watched for forty years while the citizens of many of our inner cities waited for THE GOVERNMENT to solve our crime problem. Detroit is a prime example of that mindset. Those of you who do not have the “privilege” of residing nearby can Google it on the internet to see how well THE GOVERNMENT has done.
Finally I have pleaded for years for more citizens to join us, not in the militia, but in the Reform Party to put a stop to this “free trade” nonsense before all our industrial jobs went to the third world. Hasn’t worked so far. Seems everybody like you is still waiting for THE GOVERNMENT to do something about it.
Since you did not finish the thought, I had to supply the rest of the implied argument to make a response. If you have a different argument, please respond more completely next time. I do not wish to put words in your mouth.
on August 31st, 2009 at 11:39 am
John b
You certainly bring up some points that merit discussion.
Regarding the growth of government, I do not see this as a pathway to the dangers you describe. The authors of the Constitution deliberately were sparse in their language because they wanted to allow the Constitution to be modified over time. They also put in restrictions to make sure that any given leader could not rewrite the Constitution, and gave us an independent Supreme Court to provide a final arbiter on questions of interpretation.
The Constitution can indeed change — it is however, extraordinarily difficult, requiring 2/3 majority in both houses and ratification by the states.
Some of the landmark changes in our society since the revolution show that our government must change and should change with the times. Take a look at women’s suffrage, the abolition of slavery and the advent of civil rights legislation that was not possible to conceive of at the birth of the nation. Threats to sovereignty changed (atomic weapons for example), the very pillars of the economy changed from agriculture to industry to services, and our society has become much larger and more diverse.
So I do not see change as bad.
The concept of the militia in my mind is best described by the National Guard — semi professional soldiers that can be called up if needed without resorting to a draft. In some frontier areas there was a need for posses at one time, but history shows that the justice dealt out in the frontier was summary and frighteningly drastic.
We no longer need militias as they were known. The freedom to bear arms, in my view, has been wildly distorted since its original intent. Keep in mind that a musket does not have suppressive fire capability, nor can it be concealed easily. As a gun owner I am a strong opponent of gun bans in general because I, like you, do not trust the government to take over my perogative for survival and protecting my home and family. However, I believe states need to determine what makes sense for their jurisdictions, and in some cases, municipalities.
I ended my membership with NRA due to the outrageous politicking and slander jobs they attempted against Obama. The former character of sportsman and honest citizens wanting to preserve their rights to own firearms has changed dramatically to a hyper vigiliant and unruly force in our national political agenda. I realize that “assault weapons” as banned under Clinton are no different than other carbines that lack flash suppressors or picatinny rails, but even so, I don’t see what value having millions of these weapons circulating and objectively ending up in the wrong people’s hands does for our country’s security if not to erode it.
If a group of citizens wishes to form a militia, I think it behooves us all, who are not part of the militia, to investigate and watch for motives that would destabilize the government. Border vigilantes are not welcome in my America, nor are gangs that however well intended cannot operate with the same accountability as professional law enforcement officers.
Finally if you do not like what the government is doing, do not blame Washington. Look at your neighbors, look at your countrymen and see if they care more for their own football game on the flat screen than they do for health care reform or immigration reform. Civic involvement needs to be re-energized, but not if this means forming militias that oppose the government or seek to usurp the rule of law based on archaic concepts of national security.
on September 1st, 2009 at 2:25 pm
I agree with what beholder has stated so well in his latest blog. I think militias serve a purpose but should be closely scrutinized. I am the experiencing some bad harassment that does not even involve guns but more closely resembles something that members of the yippies experienced under Nixon.
In my youth I was often influenced by emotional issues such as civil rights and farm workers rights and was a member of a union. There were plenty of controversial issues. As i aged I left these things for a kind of Maslows Hierarchy of Needs existence in which the main concern was my family and just survival. And that is what has been compromised by this invasion upon my privacy and well being by citizens groups or rumors. It has made things like peace and quiet and the pursuit of happines a thing of the past.
The people who manage the law have turned a blind eye to torture and harassment. I have not been charged with a crime nor told why this goes on. In my travels I have met people who for one reason or another were cast out of my state by a network of good old boy crap that resembles the swift boating of Mcain and Kerry.
on September 14th, 2009 at 7:55 am
I don’t go along with most of these militia groups but you said “And once-popular militia conspiracy theories are making the rounds again, this time accompanied by nativist theories about secret Mexican plans to “reconquer” the American Southwest.” You make it sound like it’s something they imagine but if you go to the Aztlan website at http://www.aztlan.net they make no secret that they want to “reconquer” the SouthWest.
on September 15th, 2009 at 4:48 pm
Anyone who fears Aztlan must still think there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.
Are there so few bugbears that Aztlan is actually being mentioned as a threat to America?
on September 15th, 2009 at 10:35 pm
Aztlan is no more a threat than any other racist organization. I know that if any group were a threat to take states away from our U.S.A. that the government would wipe them out just like they did to the South back in the 1860s. Evidently there are those who feel that Aztlan and those who agree with their cause are a threat. A mi yo no tengo miedo….no mi importa.
on September 19th, 2009 at 4:04 am
Where were all of these “outraged citizens” when the beliefs of millions of Americans were disregarded and Bush invaded Iraq, wasting thousands of lives and billions of dollars – all for a lie. And that’s just for starters.
Anything Mr. Obama is trying to do now, whether it ends up being good or bad for the US, will never have the incredibly horrific effect Bush’s government has had on our Country and the world. Yet in those days, these same currently “outraged citizens” sat back and called anyone who opposed Bush, unAmerican.
Apparently right-wingers are the only Americans allowed to be outraged at their government.
Hypocrites.
on September 24th, 2009 at 4:00 pm
Tom Gun
I think the right wing is in its death throes. There is one great unifier among disparate groups on the right, and that is fear and hate. The militias are a way to transform fear and hate into action.
There is nothing left holding the right together but saying no to everything.
on September 29th, 2009 at 8:07 pm
there is no left or right, only those who would keep us bickering, keep us from uniting. It has nothing to do with Obama, or if he is white, black, or purple. He’s a puppet for the real “owners”, just like G.W. was a puppet. People are fed up, and there are alot of US who voted for Obama hoping for “Change”, and getting the same crap that we’ve been getting. When are people going to wake up and see the bigger picture here? STOP WATCHING CNN AND FOX NEWS AND OPEN YOUR EYES, PEOPLE!!!
on October 27th, 2009 at 11:59 am
I respect the SPLC’s work immensely. Sadly, I have to say that I think that the SPLC ought to discontinue these comment threads, as the overwhelming majority of comments are made by racists and fascists, and the SPLC shouldn’t be offering a public lectern to the very people it opposes.
on October 30th, 2009 at 10:29 pm
militias are full of psychopaths, schizoids, skirtoids, hysterical personalities and generally brain-damaged people.
on November 12th, 2009 at 9:28 pm
I’ve been reading through these responses and find them remarkably ignorant of the vast differences between what is fact and what is belief.
How can any American not be aware of what is actually happening in our nation? It’s really frightening to see how people gather to destroy everything that is good about this nation, just to make a point or create a disturbance and get some of their anger out for some attention’s sake.
No wonder people here are always getting cheated by the promises of flim flam artists!
on November 22nd, 2009 at 11:02 am
Booooy! It seems the whole KKK organization turned out to comment on this article. They are obviously keeping up on what the anti racist organizations are doing. These same people refuse to examine the Chaney\Bush years that caused most of this financial crisis. Deregulated financial systems to make it easier for Americans money to be stolen, I know because I was a broker. Bush wanted it to be worse by taking Americans social security money and putting it into this financial crisis they knew was coming.
Chaney\Bush started two wars that has absolutely nothing to do with Osama Bin Loten. Murdering and crippling thousands of our men and women then killing over a million men, women and children in Afghanistan\Iraq. The Bin Loten family has been in business for years with the Bush family and Communist China has vast business operations with the Bush family.
That’s why for the first time in our history a president (Bush W), a sitting president (Bush H) and a former president’s younger brother, who runs the family business (Neil Mallon Bush), visited communist China to look after their family investments doing the Olympics. These are the same people who put us in debt to these communist. Non of your militias protested nor threatened to kill Bush over it.
Now who is more communist Obama or Bush who admitted wanting to be America’s dictator. I have the video. Eight years of torture and dismantling our constitution and now we have White militias on the rise months into Obama’s administration? Accusing President Obama of all the ills of the Bush\Republican regime.
Since taking office on January 20, 2009, President Barack Obama receives 30 potential death threats each day. Bush W. received 7-8 a day. Monitoring the web sites of militias and other extreme right wing groups show vile racist dialog and postings. More white people attending rallies with guns, rebel flags, racist anti black signs and in Georgia some of the Tea party people wore black face. There has been an increase of attacks on Blacks and minorities by White racist and their organizations in the last few months.
More and more racist figures are being put up front in the Republican party and other extreme organizations such as Governor Haley Barbour of Mississippi who association with the extreme racist separatist Conservative Citizens Council helped the Reagan regime perfect the racist Southern Strategy. Joe Wilson (You Lie!) belongs to the Sons of Confederate Veterans. This is an organization that, as the SPLC has detailed assiduously, has been taken over in the past decade by radical neo-Confederates who favor secession and defend slavery as a benign institution. Leading the takeover is a radical racist named Kirk Lyons, who’s been an important legal figure on the far right for some years. Sarah Palin wanting to secede from the union has drawn a very large Neo-Con Wing Nut following.
One threat targeting President Obama include an alleged plot by white supremacists in Tennessee late last year to rob a gun store, shoot 88 black people, decapitate another 14 and then assassinate the first African American president in American history.
The daily drum beat of hate rhetoric from the likes of CNN’s Lou Dobbs, FOX’s Glenn Beck, Bill O’Reilly, and Sean Hannity, as well as from various AM radio personalities like Rush Limbaugh and Michael Savage, Neal Boortzs, etc., only empowers the pathetic racists behind many of the death threats targeting President Obama. I could go on and on about what’s happening in our country.
Mark Potok and Hatewatch are going easy on you bigots. Clean up your act and blame the right people (BUSH\CHANEY).
on January 18th, 2010 at 10:58 am
Wow!
I haven’t heard such paranoid fantasies since I lived in Georgia for a few months years ago. Americans have more guns than at any other time in our history, yet the rumor is repeated that everyone is trying to take away the “right” to own a gun!
I don’t want to be in the vicinity of any of those teabag nuts who carried assault rifles to their assemblies just to show off their mighty-man images. It’s pretty obvious they are simply enjoying the imaginary right to exert themselves over unarmed strangers in a crowd.
These ideas are dangerous because they are promoting lawlessness and nothing else.
on January 25th, 2010 at 3:47 pm
You are doing a horrible injustice to the cause of freedom when you lump hate groups and white supremacists in with those who support the constitution and want to combat the growing toehold that socialism and even marxism have gained in our government. After the Oklahoma bombings, several militias wrote a statement declaring their non-tolerance of such groups. After all, fascism and communism have much more in common with each other than either one has in common with the principles of freedom on which our great nation was founded. Liberals may not want to admit this, but conservatives are by far not all white.
on January 26th, 2010 at 3:23 pm
Cathy, I would appreciate it if you would elaborate on what you are calling marxism and fascism and in what ways you think they are gaining a foothold in our government.
All of the recent legislation in this nation has been devoted to increasing the wealth and power of corporations. You could never call that socialism.
I invite you to investigate the latest decision of the conservatives in the Supreme Court that gives all of the rights of individual citizens to gigantic corporate businesses that are indulging in forced labor.
I’m afraid that decision will keep our representatives too busy trying to write better legislation to stop the corporate power grab. They will have no time to take care of our more immediate economic troubles caused by corporate speculation and greed.
on February 9th, 2010 at 4:38 pm
cathy b, when you bring up the “rising toehold” of marxism in our government, are you saying that the reason why our economy collapsed is because the managing directors of Goldman Sachs were required to read Marx at Wharton?
on March 17th, 2010 at 8:48 am
It would seem the SPLC is more concerned about American citizens excercising their Constitutional right to defend themselves against a tyrannical government, but overlooks the countless Muslim training centers scattered throughout the states. THAT is the real threat to this nation.
When I see a call for investigation and termination of said Muslim camps, then we can discuss the Constitutionality and legality of the Citizen Militia.
on March 17th, 2010 at 2:12 pm
What kind of tyranny do you see in our government? Do you mean that the needs of working men and women are consistently ignored by their representatives in congress?
Please be specific about what you believe is tyranny.
on March 18th, 2010 at 10:19 am
Kate:
Lol, that the only word you noticed in the comment?
on March 18th, 2010 at 3:31 pm
L Fisher why don’t you answer the question? You made the comment, not Kate.
The kinds of tyranny I see going on are wholesale slaughter of innocents in Iraq and South Asia, the denial of health care access to the people who need it most in this country (the poor, self employed, etc.), and an abject refusal to govern but instead to grandstand for votes in Congress while America suffocates.
I see nothing wrong with studying Islam. Making it impossible to do so is tyranny and unconstitutional. Or does our Constitution mean so little to a gang of anti-government fanatics in GI Joe uniforms?
on March 22nd, 2010 at 8:35 pm
My objection to Obama is not that he’s half black, it’s that he’s all socialist. He actually thinks our problems will be solved by making government (and the national debt) even bigger. I’d be happy with Walter Williams as President. But leave it to the SPLC to insist that the only possible objection one could have to Obama is that he’s (sort of) black. The SPLC is always eager to find some tenuous link between “right wingers” and “terrorists”. They fail to point out that Obama was a friend of terrorist ex-Weatherman Bill Ayers. (Apparently if you’re on the left your association with a murderer gets a pass.) The few areas where I agreed with Obama are issues where he has backslid and broken his promises. We’re *still* in Iraq. He just reauthorized the evil, unconstitutional Patriot Act. During his election campaign Obama said he wanted every bill to be put on the web before it came up for a vote — until there were unpopular bills he wanted to pass.
In the last election I had a choice between a mulatto socialist and a white, half senile war mongering neocon. I had the good sense to vote for neither. I suspect the militia guys feel the same way I do. They’re just pissed off that their choice was no choice.
Kate De Braose, an excellent example of creeping facism is the Patriot Act. It was shoved down our throats by the neocons, passed by Democrats and Republicans both (without having read it, of course) and reauthorized by Obama. My man, Ron Paul, voted against it. And yes, that bill introduced by arch neocons McCain and Lieberman is indeed an example of tyranny in government (it’s basically Son of Patriot Act). Making it illegal for a person *not* to buy health insurance is also tyranny. That’s what the new health care bill does.
on March 23rd, 2010 at 10:08 am
It seems to me that people are disappointed that our president is not given (by our constitution) the same powers as a dictator has. They will blame the president for all the cunning legislation that conservative congressmen have managed to write and pass over many years and that their sympathizers in the Supreme Court are willing to interpret as legally enforceable– at least until wiser legislators have managed to reverse those laws with new legislation.
What happened? Did none of you study American History? Don’t you know that our presidents can only sign or refuse to sign laws passed by congress?
Bad laws can be corrected with better and wiser legislation. Get busy and write your representatives
about your concerns and keep nagging until you get a response. We need to insist that Guantanamo be closed, that the always spreading wars be ended and that the Patriot Act be nullified. If you have time to practice with guns and dream of slaughtering neighbors, you have plenty of time to be a good and not a violent citizen. Do it for the next generation. That’s the only way to be a hero in this fight for fairness and decency in government.
on March 23rd, 2010 at 9:31 pm
Kate, nobody wants the president to be a dictator (far from it). But the President is also Commander in Chief. He could, if he wanted to, have declared victory in Iraq and ordered the troops home. He can also veto legislation like the Patriot Act. Congress would need a two thirds majority to override the veto, and if Obama explained just why that act is so terrible there’s no way congress would try to override his veto.
on March 24th, 2010 at 12:10 pm
Well, I disagree with you that the president is actually running the nation, at least, in regard to conducting or ending wars. He, and all of us, are the captives of what Dwight Eisenhower called “the military/industrial complex.” They and the Pentagon have the use of most of the nation’s wealth and they set the nation’s policy on wars. It is quite easy for them to persuade and control the votes of any member of congress and the president also.
Money is what runs our nation’s capitol. That situation has existed long before most of us were born.
on March 24th, 2010 at 11:22 pm
Kate, while only the House of Representatives can declare a war (which they never do anymore) the Constitution does give the President the role of Commander in Chief. He can in fact give any legal order to any general or admiral and they have to obey those orders — or face a court martial. If I were President I would order an immediate orderly withdrawal from Iraq, and any military man who tried to thwart that order would quickly find himself out of a job. In any case, a withdrawal from Iraq is hardly unpopular among the military. Do you want to know which candidate got the most support from members of the armed forces in the 2008 election? Ron Paul, the most antiwar candidate in either party. Saying that Obama is powerless to get us out of Iraq is tantamount to saying he is a wimp, unwilling to exercise the powers granted to him by the Constitution.
on March 26th, 2010 at 9:57 am
Bush caused the bloodbath, not Obama.
on March 26th, 2010 at 11:36 am
EWP
Apparently you believe that American presidents have the same powers as dictators? If your History education was that deficient, perhaps you could correct that situation by asking your public librarian for advice on ways to get a quick brush-up. Every person who has gained American citizenship after immigrating to America has taken just such a course in American history and government.
It is true that presidents declare war. However, the wars are instigated by Pentagon officials, about whom the US Constitution says nothing.
on March 26th, 2010 at 12:41 pm
I wonder if any of the people above have bothered to read a little document called the CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.
Article 6 says the United States is the SUPREME LAW of the land, not the states. Those who would secede from the Union had better go back in history and find out what happened at Appomattox. It was there that it was proven that no state had the right to secede from the Union.
Many are the non-readers and non-thinkers who shout that Obama is a socialist along with most of the rest of his cabinet. So what IS Socialism? It’s simple, really, in the Capitalist form of economics (and this is all about economics, not politics) capital tents to go to the top 1 or 2% of the population and the rest of the people gets what’s left, if any. Capitalists (true capitalists, that is) generally do not actually PRODUCE anything but give themselves huge chunks of money as a “reward” for doing…for doing…WHAT?
Originally, they produced the money that was required for building and manufacturing things; now they produce nothing and richly reward themselves for that while the actual workers, the people who produce everything, get a tiny fraction of any capital that is left.
That is neither right nor wrong; it just is.
Socialism, on the other hand, spreads out capital more evenly so there is a greater number of people who can buy what they want or need. Again, not right but not wrong; it just is.
However, the countries that are starting to kick our posteriors are a combination of capitalism and socialism. And like it or not, so are we! We must catch up in the world’s economy.
Talking heads who love to toss out words they don’t know splatter like so much fertilizer on the minds and hearts of the ignorant. Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, et. al. instantly come into mind. They are the Republican Fear Squad. Whatever you do, do it so that it is aimed at the uneducated, not those with higher degrees, after all, they’re just EXPERTS who have spent years and years studying and learning. Non-degreed, non-experts like Beck and Limbaugh like to hear themselves “sound” like experts, but don’t have the foggiest concept of what they are talking about.
Some idiots do not believe that Hawaii can issue an American birth certificate because they do not understand that Hawaii IS A STATE and became one on August 21, 1959 so a birth certificate from Hawaii is a valid American birth certificate, no further proof is needed.
The Supreme Court has ruled that the right to bear arms is a right left to the PEOPLE, not the states. In Texas, if someone breaks into my house, they will be shot, period. It is legal, no certificate of ownership is required.
While I very seldom use my doctorate to wave in someone’s face, those initials represent over 30 years of study and work.
Penultimate Item: I am a proud supporter of President Obama and would have voted for the man had he been purple with green and yellow polka dots: I vote for the MAN, not his color. He has done what no other president has been able to accomplish and I applaud him for so doing!
Now go and read the Constitution and UNDERSTAND that anyone who is still grumping and groaning, grow up and become adults instead of “Rush Heads.”
on March 27th, 2010 at 10:51 am
Thank you, Dr. Kurtin, for taking time to teach some of our political history to persons who didn’t understand it in elementary school and now seem to believe that anything seen on television is divine truth.
I think this nation is still in its rowdy teenager stage and I sometimes despair that its leaders will ever mature into adulthood. I am glad that our current president is an adult, but we all know that he may be one of very few we’ve seen in office presently.
What makes me very angry is that carrying guns is now seen as the only way to keep any sort of order among this rowdy group of elderly teenagers.
on March 29th, 2010 at 2:50 pm
The opportunist politician slick cons are trying their best to gain support from this “supposed” tyranny..of the Democrats.
Don’t be fooled by these Facist extremist grifters. They are banking on your fear….Hitler got a following by fear. Chelene Nightingale for governor bunch are an excellent example. They use scare tactics..and fear mongering to “rally the troops”,
when in reality all they want is a narcisstic fix and MONEY!!! from YOU! this cabal of vultures and vampires could care less about their fellow Americans. They want to turn this country into a bunch of robotic Conspiracy theororist who will bow down to them and rapture them. Think ‘RASPUTIN!”
on March 30th, 2010 at 5:40 pm
It is fine when a capitalist BLACK professional basketball player makes MILLIONS, for doing WHAT?
But, a CEO – oh dear. He CANNOT be allowed to make more money than others. My uncle made MORE for a silicon valley company – why? Because he went to work at 6:00 AM and came home at 8:00. He was a genius who won many awards. And on top of that, he had been very poor as a child. No help from his immigrant parents.
Yes, they WANTED him – the top companies. He was a genius. He took risks and advanced the computer industry.
on March 31st, 2010 at 10:14 am
Granny, you are falling into the trap laid for you and all the rest of us. Everyone who has a JOB works overtime, and why? Because that is what is demanded of all of us poor working stiffs. And most of us got no overtime pay in our lives, because some private business owners have refused to follow any laws, local state or federal.
Here is a fundamental truth about America. The errant business owners have got rich by bending and breaking all the rules. So why would anyone look up to people who are crooks at heart?
It is a time-honored rule of every business interest to pay the least possible to their workers and to pay no taxes on their profits, if at all possible. Every other business rule has been trodden into the dirt by people who take the wages of the poor to support their businesses.
You would do well and get an education free, by listening to what Elizabeth Warren and other whistleblowers have to say about our current economic crisis and its causes.
on March 31st, 2010 at 11:32 am
I am a long time “employee”. However, a few years ago we decided to try building a spec home. The work and worry, the risk we took – (this was a vacation home) did teach us a lesson alright. I could have worked at some drone type of job – and it would have been more secure.
We wouldn’t have the nice neighborhoods we have today – or many good products (including “green” products) if there were not risk-takers.
Yes, they try to make profits. For one thing, they have to make a profit to help tide them over for the lean times. Not everyone can be a government bureaucrat, you know. The whole world cannot work for the US government. That is where it is really safe, because thousands of government employees vote in candidates who will continue the ever-increasing taxes – even taxes on the poor. And they HATE the private sector. I know, I’ve been there, done that.
on March 31st, 2010 at 3:19 pm
Sorry Granny, the hate and lies have come exclusively from those crooks and liars in the party of Resentment.
Because they actually want their slaves back, they will ruin their “businesses” and put their profits offshore raather than pay fair wages.
Al Capone couldn’t have done more damage to our economy and our nation than these unprincipled crybabies!
on March 31st, 2010 at 5:45 pm
What about the managers of government who have let $90 BILLION a year in Medicare fraud and $60 BILLION a year in Medicaid fraud happen?
This was on ABC news a few months ago.
on March 31st, 2010 at 6:14 pm
Kate De Braose, I agree with you that, “What makes me very angry is that carrying guns is now seen as the only way to keep any sort of order among this rowdy group of elderly teenagers.” But it IS necessary. I’m cross-eyed angry that I have to arm myself and my home, but I’m seen as a target for the scum that would have zero compunction about “capping” me for the pure fun of it. EVERY GANG MEMBER IS GUILTY OF MURDER OR ATTEMPTED MURDER because that is the only way they can join a gang: Kill an innocent person to prove what a man you are.
I’m disabled and ride around in a wheelchair when I’m out of my home, therefor I have a large target pained on me that some punk sees as someone who is a target and ripe for either killing or robbing or both.
Hate to tell them this: My Glock purse gun is faster than they are.
A few months ago an acquaintance had his hair pulled back and his throat cut from ear-to-ear for a lousy $10.00…he was in a wheelchair IN PUBLIC and nobody lifted a hand to help him. Since nobody will ever react in time to save me from being a victim, I choose to make damned good and sure that I will make a victim out of any attacker.
Yes, I have taken shooting courses and know what I’m doing; I’m licensed to carry.
So carrying a LOADED weapon isn’t my first choice, it is my ONLY choice.
If I had my way (moving to another subject) I would make it mandatory for ALL persons seeking public office to take a college level course in the Constitution of the United States and pass a tests on it BEFORE being permitted to file. It is absurd that we have as many idiots in the Senate and House that want to “repeal the health care reform bill.” DAMMIT, it isn’t a BILL, it is a law and as such is covered by the Constitution; the laws passed by Congress is the supreme law of the land and cannot be reversed at the whim of a vocal, hate-filled bunch of angry Republicans.
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr…………..
on March 31st, 2010 at 6:34 pm
SOME members of the “constitution party” Bill Lussenheide and Chelene Nightingale seek very aggresive ways to make their views get noticed. They stand on street corners with known militant minded goons to push their agenda. They are touting themselves as “Patriots” but read online how they are accusing the AMERICAN GOVERNMENT of planning 9-11!!!!! These people also seek to become politicians…ie: Bill Lussenheide for congress ca-45 and Chelene Nightingale for Governor of ca. They seek to cloak themselves in the “teaparty”, but, make no mistake…these people are nuts…and have made outrageous claims against our goverment. Beware!!
on April 1st, 2010 at 10:12 am
Dr. Kurtin
I think the only way to improve for the selection of a president and people’s representatives is to train every school child in our nation’s history. And I don’t mean the kind of history that the Texas textbook people promote!
But to solve your problem we need to hire a couple of brawny guards to accompany everyone in a wheelchair when they are in public places. We might also find ways to protect schoolchildren and the elderly and feeble wherever they are too.
on April 2nd, 2010 at 12:33 pm
I moved to my farm in Jackson County, WV two years ago, which brings me now in contact with the people here on a daily basis. This whole county is hiding behind a cross with a cocked gun…. In a conversation in a checkout line at the local farm store I was actually threatened with death because I said… “I have great hope that President Obama can bring health care to all of us, I could use it myself”
I am a former state legislator, and was just amazed at this level of crackpot ideological violence contemplation.
on April 2nd, 2010 at 5:46 pm
Lowell, I believe that is your name, Glenn Beck has called President Obama a fascist, a socialist, someone who wants to destroy all whites, despite that fact that half of his family is white, and had made all kind of disparaging negative remarks about Mr. Obama. Yes, I heard that disgusting thing SAY those things. What is worse, is I believe that he is a sick person who is still angry that his parents never decided to marry.
I’m nudging 70 and have never seen nor heard of such disrespect towards any president while in office. The problem that Beck has with Obama is clear and simple: Beck is a racist who loathes the fact that a black man holds the top position in the country.
Personally, I am repulsed by the complete lack of respect, if not for the person for the office of president.
I wish to avoid an ad hominem attack on you as I’ve no idea of who or what you are. I’ll just presume that you do not listen to Beck or listen to what he says when you turn him off mentally.
Now for those morons among us, you are griping that immigrants are stealing your jobs. WHAT? Are you going to tell me with a straight face that you are willing to do stoop labor? You are willing to climb shaky ladders picking fruit from trees? YOU ARE LYING WITH BOTH SIDES OF YOUR MOUTHS. Your objection to immigrant labor is your racism, pure and simple racism. You have your pet names for Latinos, none of which I will rehearse here. I LIKE Latinos, they make great neighbors, they keep their homes and property in better shape than many of my Anglo neighbors. They are, once they discover you have no prejudice against them, some of the best friends you can have. Spanish was being spoken in what is now the Southern United States LONG before English came in. Try learning some Spanish and you’ll be amazed at how much you can learn. A simple smile and wave with an “Allo” goes a long way towards pulling down the artificial walls Anglos erect.
-30-
on April 4th, 2010 at 10:02 am
Beverly,
In my state, laws were passed to PREVENT teens from going into the fields to do stoop labor – which they had been doing for eons. I worked alongside my high school friends – as did my brother. We worked all summer in the 60′s – picking strawberries, raspberries and beans. The town kids were picked up by busses and taken to the fields. Still, in my state young white girls go to pick cherries and work for 10 to 12 hours during harvest. It may be you who won’t do stoop labor. Obviously, you are part of the ivory tower crowd. How funny for you to tell others that they won’t get dirty. Apparently, over 50% of agricultural work is still done by whites. It is they who are always taken for granted.
And, as for those of us who have known Hispanic criminals or Hispanics who try to date 13-year-olds….please don’t be condescending or hint that we must not have ever known a good Hispanic. It still is about behavior, not ethnicity and there are differences in ethnic behaviors and practices. Obviously, if 19,000 have died in Mexico since Calderon cracked down on the cartels….get a clue.
on April 4th, 2010 at 11:57 am
Dr. Kurtin, that was the most eloquent and yet, simple answer to all the racist justifications I’ve ever seen on this, or any, discussion board. I love the SPLC because it’s reports bring out the best and worst of us.
I couldn’t agree with Dr. Kurtin more. I’m also an older lady and white and live in the Southwest where I’ve seen the truth of her statements every day. There are no anglo youngsters standing at the day labor places. There are no anglo people of any age picking the fruit and vegetables in the whole large county where I live, yet every time I talk to someone who is out of work, they invariably complain about the “illegals” who are “taking their jobs.”
There ARE jobs. They are just not the ones most white people want. The Latino people around here, mostly Mexican people, are hardworking farm workers, mechanics, restaurant workers, skilled craftsmen, housekeepers and many other low-paying positions.
I think some of the whiners and complainers out there should evaluate their SKILLS and get busy.
If you think you’re too good to work, then maybe you’re too good to eat.
on April 4th, 2010 at 2:47 pm
Unemployment has been very high for a number of years because corporations have closed their operations in the USA and built their plants in foreign nations where they can pay starvation wages to workers.
I daresay that the angry posters here saw that happening, yet have said nothing about their distress over the great numbers of Americans whose jobs were suddenly moved offshore. There have been many thousands of jobs lost every month for years, but suddenly Fox “news” viewers have just noticed that was happening?
I want to tell you that in the 1990s salespeople were having business conferences where they instructed their audiences in the ways they could be free of taxation on their profits, namely by moving their operations offshore. Those same techniques are often called money laundering and they are major crimes.
You can blame immigrants as Americans’ traditional fall guys, but we all know that the real thieves are wealthy businessmen who claim to be red-blooded patriots.
How we do pull the wool over our own eyes in our eagerness to blame a group of easy victims for the crimes of the powerful!
on April 5th, 2010 at 2:46 pm
Easy victims? Cartels are victims? (The brainwashed are among us…..)
on April 15th, 2010 at 1:23 pm
#
Donna said,
on August 12th, 2009 at 8:31 pm
If the hatred of the government is not racially motivated by the black president, then where were you and why were you not complaining when Bush was flushing your money down the toilet and lying to the American people. You bloggers that claim there is no racial motivation are flat out liars! You have done nothing but whine and complain since I helped elect him. It is so much fun to listen to your white noise i will gladly vote for him again. I am ashamed of the lack of vision that these writers have! Long live a diverse America and many of us caucasians will be fighting on the side of our brothers and sisters of color! You are not fooling anyone!
I got NEWS for you lady, these people WERE complaining about Bush’s policys and actions and STILL are. Get down off the race card its NOT a factor. I could care less what color someones skin is, I judge actions, agendas, policys, and I disagree with the actions as far back as 1964. How dare you accuse someone who doesnt agree with your opinions a racist. And THIS organization is a joke, crystal clear they are instigators and as far as militia goes I’m glad there are people who will stand for our rights when the government only seems to trample on them. Go back and read your history, the militias were the reason we won our freedom, the same freedom that gives your right to say the disgusting things you say. I am so sick of all the ignorance coming out of the mouths of the uninformed. Next time KNOW what you’re talking about before inserting your foot.
on April 26th, 2010 at 3:48 am
Why all the misinformation against Citizen Militias? Most of them truly aren’t racist. Contrary to popular belief, not everybody in a Citizen Militia is Caucasian either. I see a lot of people going off-topic and mentioning how the “Right-Wing” and Republicans worshipped G-Dub as well. If you’ve ever heard of Ron Paul (and oh so many others) you know that a lot of folks involved in this didn’t like Bush much either. The point is that these groups generally may be “Right-Wing” and take a Libertarian approach, but they aren’t generally racist (I haven’t run into any racist member of this stuff so far), and are by far, some of the most average people out there.
on April 26th, 2010 at 8:30 am
Miles, people are concerned that what you call citizen militias are simply casual groups of men who show up with guns at large public gatherings. They seem to have no authority and no organization. Anyone and everyone in the crowd would be a target for their “authority” if they are the only persons who are armed.
I think that local police would be on their necks in a minute. Nobody in this nation has agreed, or will ever agree, that they are bound to obey even well-meaning gangs of unknown men.
I know that small groups of frustrated Nazi sympathizers and KKK members would be glad to join such groups to get their kind of sexist and racist messages into the mainstream. If that happened, then freedom in America, and everywhere else, would be dead for centuries and we would all be catapulted backward in time to the “Dark Ages.”
Be careful of what you wish for!