Hatewatch Tweets
Hatewatch is managed by the staff of the Intelligence Report, an investigative magazine published by the Alabama-based civil rights group Southern Poverty Law Center.
Arizona Debate Unleashes New ‘Reconquista’ Accusations
As the debate intensifies over Arizona’s harsh new law aimed at undocumented immigrants, nativist groups are claiming that opponents of the measure support nothing less than the reconquest of the Southwest by Mexicans.
Though the myth of “la reconquista” — a purported secret Mexican conspiracy to take back part of the United States — has long pervaded the nativist movement, anti-immigrant groups recently have been using it to portray critics of the Arizona law as anti-American. The law, which detractors (including Southern Poverty Law Center lawyers) say would lead to racial profiling, gives police the authority to arrest people suspected of being undocumented if they have some other reason to make contact with them.
Some of the most overheated rhetoric came from Peter Brimelow, the British immigrant who runs the anti-immigrant hate site VDARE.com. In a VDARE.com post last week titled “Help VDARE.COM Resist [Raul] Grijalva’s Reconquista!,” Brimelow vilifies the U.S. representative from Arizona who vowed at a Phoenix rally to “overturn the power structure that created this unjust, racist law.” Brimelow asserts that “Grijalva is not an immigrant but a Mexican colonizer and what he’s against is not the ‘power structure’ — he’s against America.”
Pat Byrne, the executive director of the Patriots Coalition, another nativist group, also took aim at Grijalva. “Grijalva is supported by the same cast of characters who have crawled out of their political sewers to support his irredentist views,” Byrne wrote in an E-mail last weekend to followers. “Irredentist” means advocating the reclamation of territory formerly belonging to one’s country — presumably a reference to Grijalva’s supposed goal of returning part of the Southwest to Mexico. In an April 18 mass E-mail, Patriots Coalition President Al Garza (a former Minuteman leader) called another congressman, U.S. Rep. Luis Guitierrez (D-Ill.), “Mexico’s #1 reconquista agent.”
Not to be outdone, Glenn Spencer, who heads the American Border Patrol hate group, posted a picture of the United States on his website last Friday with a Mexican flag superimposed on the Southwest. “The Mayor of Los Angeles [Antonio Villaraigosa] is a lackey of the Mexican government,” Spencer wrote. “His [sic] has declared war on U.S. sovereignty.”
Jim Gilchrist, a founding father of the Minuteman movement and the leader of the Minuteman Project, also weighed in last week by attacking not just public figures but all undocumented immigrants. The headline on his website proclaimed, “Minuteman Project says: Illegal Aliens Trying to Strong Arm Arizona.” He continued: “The illegal aliens are proving our point. The Minutemen have for a long time held the line that illegal aliens haven’t come here to work but to colonize.”
Minuteman Project Executive Director Stephen Eichler also heads TeaParty.org — part of the libertarian-tinged grassroots protest movement — so perhaps his group’s overwrought defense of Arizona is no surprise. An E-mail to supporters asked: “Are we to guarantee domestic tranquility for the rest of the world while our own Citizens hide in their homes for fear of an invading army of trespassers?”
on May 5th, 2010 at 3:18 pm
This reminds me of the attacks on JFK being an agent of the Pope.
on May 5th, 2010 at 3:20 pm
um…how can they be nativists when technically, not only is arizona really part of mexico, but natives to this country are NOT white?? can someone please explain the logic?? wouldn’t a true nativist be mexican by definition??
on May 5th, 2010 at 4:42 pm
Ah yes, the very same Mexicans who risk death crossing the desert to get away from Mexico must secretly be working to join the southwest to Mexico. Makes perfect sense…if you drink paint thinner.
on May 5th, 2010 at 6:50 pm
Interestingly, I’ve been reading a lot of allegations about ‘la reconquista’ on a Facebook page I’ve been following (1 Million strong against the Arizona Immigration Law SB1070)… although no one has actually called it by that name. Unfortunately, many others who have posted, have supported the “cause,” by saying that they were gearing up for and completely supported the Mexican’s alleged movement to do so. It’s a vicious cycle… some people are scared and emotional, others are emotional and reactive, and at the end they just wind up feeding the each others fears.
… but thanks for this; it brings some clarity to an argument I’ve been hearing frequently.
on May 5th, 2010 at 8:46 pm
whats a bloody brit know about americans anyway
on May 5th, 2010 at 8:51 pm
People get upset when you start questioning their sacred hatreds.
on May 6th, 2010 at 1:34 am
First of all, they are not “undocumented” immigrants, they are ILLEGAL immigrants. Now, let’s approach this from a common sense point of view. I think we can all agree that where there is no law, there is chaos. Similarly, where there is law which is not enforced, there is chaos. Why have immigration laws if we are not going to enforce them? Not having immigration laws, or not enforcing the ones you have, basically tells people that you don’t care who, when, or how people immigrate to this country. If that’s the case, why even have a border? Also, if you want to talk about being fair, why are some immigrants who want to become citizens required to spend years going through the naturalization process and some are not? Wait a minute, they all are required to go through the naturalization process if they want to become legal citizens. We just enforce the law on some and not on others. Does that sound fair to you? Finally, if the only criticism of this law is POTENTIAL racial profiling, they can check my ID every day if it will help restore order to the chaos created by not enforcing our immigration laws.
on May 6th, 2010 at 2:09 am
It’s interesting that one of the groups mentioned the Los Angeles Mayor, Antonio Villaraigosa! What was not mentioned, this week, the Mayor’s office was evacuated due to a bomb threat!
I think these groups are referring to lamexicamovement.org, yes, they do talk about reconquista – however, for these groups to say that the “Mexicans” are colonizing, they forgot to mention the enclaves of American expats in Mexico, Panama, Costa Rica, Honduras, Dominican Republic……
In fact, Panama is allegedly another country that is also shipping lots of drugs into this country, and we (US) are allegedly shipping weapons there. I saw an interesting article “Police Seize 1.5 Tons of Weapons in Dolega,” http://www.panama-guide.com/ar.....#trackback But I also find it interesting that many Americans vacation in these countries. What has also been pretty much quashed by the mainstream media is the Polish guy, Conrad Zdzierak, that robbed banks in Ohio using a mask, “the Player,” throwing off police. Police was looking for a black man, when it was a white man! There are a few reports, that this guy is a Polish citizen!
on May 6th, 2010 at 3:40 am
Thanks for this. I followed up on some of your other pieces on the issue, and found this, via a member of RTR ActNet (the facebook for these types…) –
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SIQMmIegtg
on May 6th, 2010 at 9:49 am
Mr. Common Sense,
You say, “they can check my ID every day.” Really? I don’t think so. If you are stopped in your car for 15 minutes every day so you can have your papers checked I’m guessing it will take you about a week to get tired of that mess.
But let’s assume that you are an abnormally patient individual and a true believer in what you say, can they stop you twice every day, or four times every day? There are numerous law enforcement agencies tasked with enforcing this law. If there were a single checkpoint where everyone had to show papers this would be different and probably constitutional but it is not. You will not just have to prove yourself once, but over and over and over while the person next to you walks right on by and is never ever checked.
And this will “stop the chaos.” No sir, it simply shifts the chaos.
on May 6th, 2010 at 12:11 pm
What is happenning in Arizona reminds me of a story that a white water rafting guide related to me years ago, and it goes something like this: A friend of his was paddling a canoe down the Colorado River and hit a rock. The canoe began to leak, but the man thought he could repair it. The only nearby shore was on private property, but the man realized that the canoe would sink if he did not act quickly, and he hoped that the property owner would be sympathetic. Not long after the man hauled his canoe ashore, the property owner showed up, and demanded that he leave. The man explained that he only needed several minutes to repair his canoe, and then he would depart.
“No, you don’t understand,” the owner replied, “You need to get off my property now!”
So the man, realizing that the owner had zero tolerance for intruders, told him that he was almost done and would leave immediately, at which point the owner turned without another word, and walked back toward his home. The man thought that he had bought himself the extra time that he would need to fix his canoe and went back to work, but suddenly, the property owner reappeared with a shotgun, and fired two shots into the man’s canoe, crippling it. The man had no choice but to jump into the water; fortunately, he had a life vest and a wet suit, and was able to float downriver until he found a shore on public land.
I heard this story second-hand, of course, but it doesn’t seem too far-fetched. In any case, when I first heard it, I was shocked that the property owner was so unforgiving, and I certainly felt sorry for the canoe rider. At the same time, I tried not to be too quick to judge the owner. Maybe he was just a jerk, but perhaps his reaction was shaped by some bad experiences. Were people camping on his shore without his permission, being rowdy, or throwing trash onto his land? If that were the case, then I can see why he would be be hostile toward strangers. Still, the story was a grim reminder to me that you can be a good person and still get into a lot of trouble if you run into someone who assumes that you’re bad.
So here’s a rhetorical question: What would you do in a similar situation? If you believed that any kind of trespassing was unforgiveable, then to be consistent with your own philosophy, you would have to allow the canoe to sink, regardless of whether the property owner were away, whether your own life were in danger, or whether you had children with you.
Of course, I doubt that anyone would just accept injury or death in order to avoid trespassing, and that brings me to my point. I have had the opportunity to get to know many Latino immigrants personally (nearly all of whom have been genuinely kind, polite, and loving to their children, by the way). Those who admitted to having sneaked into the country told me not only of being unable to find work in their home countries, but also of being terrified of the drug cartels. They reasoned that they would still have to feed their children while awaiting the processing of a visa application, and that attempting to explain this to murderous gang members would probably not be fruitful. The more I listened, the more the immigrants seemed like refugees than criminals.
Now, I realize that a functional immigration system cannot be driven by compassion alone, but compassion can be the starting point of a debate if it reduces the level of public anger to the point where an objective discussion can begin; for me, that discussion should center around drafting a law that answers these basic questions: what is the overall goal that this law is trying to achieve at a national level, and how does it dovetail with the goals that we want to accomplish at the state and local level? So, for example, if you agree with the basic premise that well-parented children and close cooperation between the police and a town’s residents are integral parts of a healthy community, then our immigration system should not hamper those objectives. It may be the case that a majority of people support Arizona’s new law, but if I were to ask that same group to elaborate on how that law will promote stronger families and improve relationships between police and Hispanic residents, they might have a little more trouble answering.
It may seem like the public is too divided to be able to have a substantive immigration debate, particularly with regard to amnesty, but I think that if we focus more upon long-term goals than short-term fixes, and we keep in mind how we would react if we found ourselves facing the same kind of dilemma as the people whom I spoke with, we might find that we’re willing to put down our shotgun and offer a hand.
on May 6th, 2010 at 2:14 pm
Mr. Common Sense, people have been breaking that law(federal misdemeanor) for quite some time, and there is not “chaos” in the US. In fact for many years immigrants flooded in while there were no such laws, and chaos did not ensue. How is the breaking of one minor law the same as abolishing all laws? It is not.
If this isn’t about race, I would like to know why anti-immigration types are so concerned about that one little law, when the breaking or lack of many other laws in the US cause far more damage. Why that particular law? And why not support an initiative to make it easier for such people to immigrate legally?
on May 6th, 2010 at 2:24 pm
I hope that every American, regardless of where he lives, will stop and examine his conscience about this and other related incidents. This Nation was founded by men of many nations and backgrounds. It was founded on the principle that all men are created equal, and that the rights of every man are diminished when the rights of one man are threatened. All of us ought to have the right to be treated as he would wish to be treated, as one would wish his children to be treated, but this is not the case.
I know the proponents of this law say that the majority approves of this law, but the majority is not always right. Would women or non-whites have the vote if we listen to the majority of the day, would the non-whites have equal rights (and equal access to churches, restaurants, hotels, retail stores, schools, colleges and yes water fountains) if we listen to the majority of the day? We all know the answer, a resounding, NO!
Today we are committed to a worldwide struggle to promote and protect the rights of all who wish to be free. In a time of domestic crisis men of good will and generosity should be able to unite regardless of party or politics and do what is right, not what is just popular with the majority. Some men comprehend discrimination by never have experiencing it in their lives, but the majority will only understand after it happens to them.
on May 6th, 2010 at 3:50 pm
It is interesting that the Nativists, on the one hand, regard Mexicans as lazy, shiftless, ignorant day laborers who breed too much, drink too much and stay here too much.
This is their typical racist belief about Latinos in general.
But on the other hand, the Nativists regard Mexicans as some sort of Supermen who can vanquish the combined might of the US military, the Border Patrol, Sheriff Joe Arpaio, and half a million Bubbas with guns.
So which is it? Are Mexicans lazy and shiftless day workers or are they an evil race of Supermen who can take over the Southwestern US at will?
Well? They can’t be both.
This is cognitive dissonance at its finest.
Cuckoo Bananas.
on May 6th, 2010 at 5:11 pm
This whole reconquista thing shows that America never really got beyond Frito Bandido, did it?
Of course, it is historical fact that Texas was invaded by illegal aliens (German and Czech illegal aliens) for about two years once Mexico stopped handing out land grants and set up customs stations at the border with Louisiana. Texans conveniently forget that it was a purposeful gathering to outnumber the rightful Mexican national population and take the region by force.
The impetus of couse was economic — cotton prices were crashing and land was expensive, with increasing opposition to slavery. Texas allowed slavery, so the slavers pushed westward.
Now they’re afraid it’s going to happen to them.
on May 6th, 2010 at 5:13 pm
Snorlax you should re-read Amiri Baraka’s short play “The Dutchman” for an interesting take on what happens when the people of color start to assimilate the white man’s ways and begin to take over.
on May 6th, 2010 at 5:27 pm
What is happening in Arizona is the continuation of the human displacement of Indigenous peoples.
Most of the so called Hispanics are actually Native Americans who speak Spanish, along with English and other Native languages.
Indigenous peoples have migrated north and southbound for centuries. The Nahuatl people for instance are originally from what is today Iowa, Colorado and now they populate what is today Mexico and Central America.
We need to see the historical background of the border region, Arizona is only 100 years old and we need to understand that most undocumented immigrants are Native Americans.
on May 6th, 2010 at 5:28 pm
LEGAL immigrants by FEDERAL LAW are already required to carry their “green card” or proof of citizenship with them at all times. Arizona is simply trying to enforce the law since the federal government and NWO establishment is unwilling to enforce immigration law. There may be a techincal constitutional question here based on supremacy but, what can a state do when the Federal Government doesen’t do its job?
We say we’re concened about terrorism but we let the borders go largely unchecked. Arizona is simply testing the waters and asking for enforcement of what is ALREADY LAW.
Under the Arizona law citizenship will only be requested or established when THE PERSON/IMMIGRANT IS STOPPED FOR GOOD CAUSE(e.g. speeding, improper turn, seatbelt, jaywalking etc..) There will not be improper checkpoints or random screenings of “papers”
on May 6th, 2010 at 5:28 pm
And please SPLC stop calling white-supremacist groups as “nativists” you are confusing our Native communities with that term. Thanks.
on May 6th, 2010 at 5:43 pm
@Moderate Mike, very well said.
on May 6th, 2010 at 6:03 pm
Could someone please explain to me how Mexico “claimed this land? I can tell you. They slaughtered the American Indians, took them as slaves, and stoled the land.
If Reconquista is such a myth, how come La Voz de Aztalan has a web page dedicate to it? How come every time the Mexicans march in our streets they cary signs that state they are going to take back our southwest?
Reconquista isn’t a myth. It’s a fact.
on May 6th, 2010 at 6:31 pm
These people are re-fighting the American War with Mexico during the mid-1840′s when America under Pres. Polk basically caused the theft of Mexican land in what is now California and the Southwest. The hateful concept of Manifest Destiny was in full bloom and America was “entitled” to the entire land from the Atlantic to the Pacific and to blazes with anyone or anything that got in the way. The non-white, non- European (read British primarily) were pretty much believed to be less than fully human and they paid the price for being in the way of largely armed conquest, rape, theft, and pillage.
It is most interesting that the esteemed citizens that make up the haters among these groups are apparently desirous of recreating many of the conditions that existed well over 160 years ago vis-á-vis Mexicans.
How pathetic they are, not even realizing, or perhaps battling against the reality that whites in America are well on their way to becoming a minority themselves. They fight for their fantasy of keeping America white forever. Forever will end about 2050 or thereabouts.
on May 6th, 2010 at 6:32 pm
As a Latino immigrant myself who lives in Arizona, I am saddened by all these accusations (reconquista, etc.) All the immigrants that I know–both legal and “illegal”–are here to work and to survive. Their countries (and they’re not all Mexicans) have not offered them a living. This is an economic and humanitarian issue: people are abandoning their homes and traveling far to just get a basic job somewhere. They’re not here to “reconquer” anything. They’re leaving their country behind like other refugees across the world are doing. I became a U.S. citizen because I felt welcomed in this country at the time, but now I’m wondering what’s happening in Arizona. The nativist and white majority are spreading lies and disinformation about immigrants. We need comprehensive immigration reform to begin with, and the rest of us need to look outside our borders and realize we live in a crowded world in which many people don’t even have basic water supplies, or food, let alone jobs. We’re blaming the most vulnerable people and calling them names. Hungry people need to be fed, not to be demonized.
What I don’t understand is the gall of these Tea Party people to go out and ridicule the president because they believe in “small government,” but now want to unleash a police state against people who don’t look like them—and they deny this law is racist.
on May 6th, 2010 at 6:54 pm
There is no revolution by any Hispanics against the United States! Mexicans who come from Mexico are only looking for opportunity to live a better life! I am born and raised here and i have visited Mexico and stayed there at least 2 years working at a home for orphans! The Mexican government is not for the people, and it is beginning to trickle over here as well! America is the best place around the world! We are looking towards the hispanics because of the economy!Listen; racial issues are not the reasons the economy is where it is today!We are where we are because of ” fear “! That is one reason! Anytime fear is being broadcast-ed over the media, newspapers etc.. about any issue from stock markets, to middle east, we hold back our spending power! That is why NOW we look towards the Hispanics because it is there fault, “NOPE” don’t think so!!!The second reason is; Bring back the jobs that were sent overseas, Bring Back our jobs!!! America is a melting pot of different cultures and it is foolish to blame one race who has done nothing but build, not destroy but BUILD!!!
on May 6th, 2010 at 8:17 pm
Mr. Common Sense:
I read your little diatribes with some hesitation and a lot of mirth. Sorry, I and most of the majority of Americans have more common courtesy than you do. We TRY to treat all people, all races with respect and mutual consideration. As a white person and very proud of it, I can say with absolute certainty that if we had the work ethic that the Hispanic/Latino men or women have, our country would NOT be in the mess we’re in today! It would serve Phoenix, and ALL Arizona if every person of non-Caucasian ancestry quit work tomorrow. The economy of Arizona would fall like rock; you know it, I know it, and every “common sense” person should know it.
Ruslan, Snorlax, and Benito… I salute you! Excellent comments all!
on May 6th, 2010 at 8:34 pm
These whining Nativist ranchers, farmers,mine owners, and meat packers, etc., are he first ones to hire these lazy, shiftless, ignorant day laborers, work them like slaves, paying them meager wages, under the table, and blackmail these workers with threats of turning them in to INS. Their greed is more important than the welfare of their slave laborers. They are immoral and unethical hypocrites!!
on May 6th, 2010 at 9:38 pm
It’s far-fetched to believe there’s going to be any reclaiming of the SW by Mexico, but there is a reconquista movement, nutty as it sounds. The May Day parades and Cinco de Mayo celebrations always bring out a few waving signs supporting taking back “what was stolen” from Mexico. One of the “arguments” many open-borders advocates make is that Mexicans deserve special treatment, especially I guess the undocumented, because they’re just trying to live on land that has always been “theirs.”
This is, of course, ridiculous since the Native Americans have a more legitimate “claim” if the previous occupants are supposed to have any say.
So laugh all you want at the few who call attention to it, but reconquista exists, albeit on the fringes.
I’m not surprised that SPLC would try and debunk it, however. Doesn’t go well when the people they purport to be advocating for (undocumented Hispanics) have inconvenient fruitcakes among them messing up the message.
on May 6th, 2010 at 11:58 pm
Phil,
For starters, the majority of my original post was centered around the concept of lack of law or the lack of law enforcement. My comment about checking my ID every day was a whimiscal jest. I’d prefer to hear your comments on the lack of law enforcement (like Ruslan Amirkhanov’s comments, but please come up with something original.)
However, since you brought it up, on April 30, the Arizona legislature passed, and Governor Brewer signed, House Bill 2162, which modified the immigration law that had been signed the week earlier. Among other things, the new text states that police may only investigate immigration status incident to a “lawful stop, detention, or arrest”. So, if they want to check my identification everytime I break the law, I truely am OK with that (Driver’s license and registration, sir). Looks like racial profiling is no longer an issue unless you consider it racial profiling to ask for someone’s ID AFTER they break the law.
on May 7th, 2010 at 1:03 am
And what about the “illegal immigrant” that saved the life of a woman in NY and died because people (documented) did not care about him being loosing is blood on the street.
Of course they did not know he was “illegal”, I am sure knowing this fact they would have call police immediately.
This law is supposely made to stop drugs trafics. It wont. Because most of the trafic is made by American Citizen and not only they are smugglers, dealers but also users. And they have protection…. Not only poor people are using drugs.
USA is a country of immigrants and everyone come from another country. Expect for the Natives whom the land belongs. So why this hatred toward “others” when we are all coming from “abroad”?
on May 7th, 2010 at 1:33 am
Ruslan Amirkhanov,
There may not be chaos in the US as a whole, but have you been to Arizona recently, or the border? Think about it for a moment. What if the police stopped giving tickets for running red lights? Would there be chaos in the US? No. But there would be chaos at almost every intersection.
I’d like to see your evidence that there were “no such laws.” Here’s what I found:
-In 1921, Congress passed a Quota Law that reduced immigration to 357,000 a year and limited the number of immigrants from any one country.
-In 1924 immigration was reduced further to 160,000 a year,
-In 1929, immigration was cut to 157,000 and quotas were again reset based on national origins in the 1920 U.S. Census.
-In 1954 President Eisenhower appointed General Joseph Swing to head the Immigration and Naturalization Service. Shortly thereafter, “Operation Wetback” was launched. With only 1,075 Border Patrol agents, tens of thousands of illegal aliens were caught and sent back deep into Mexico.
-By the end of the 1950s, Illegal immigration had dropped 95%.
Looks like the US has had immigration laws for quite some time.
Next you said, “How is the breaking of one minor law the same as abolishing all laws? It is not.” Who said anything about abolishing all laws? I sure did not. Also, keep in mind that (they) are not “breaking one minor law”, they are breaking one minor law 12 to 20 MILLION times.
How many times do we need to say that we are not anti-immigration types, we are anti ILLEGAL immigration types (please confirm in your reply that you understand the difference between the two).
Here’s why it’s such a concern:
-The annual cost for uncompensated emergency care to Mexican Border States (California, New Mexico, Arizona and Texas) is $200 million.
-California taxpayers paid $79 million for illegal alien health care.
-Four major Los Angeles hospitals were bankrupted and shut down in 2004 (ask the doctors if there’s not more chaos in the remaining hospitals).
-Georgia ran a $63 million deficit for 64,000 unpaid doctor visits in 2002.
-Cochise County, Arizona spent 30% of its annual budget on uncompensated care to illegal aliens (it probably could have spent that money on education, infrastructure, etc.)
-University Medical Care in Tucson, Arizona spent $10 million on uncompensated care to illegal aliens.
-77 hospitals in the four Border States now face financial emergencies.
And that’s just the tip of the iceberg.
If people want to immigrate to this country, they are more than welcome to do so, as long as they do it LEGALLY.
I await your reply.
on May 7th, 2010 at 2:41 am
Is this why Minnesota and South Carolina just passed their own versions of SB1070?
I think the Europeans Americans (German/French) need to review their history lessons, Spain was actually the first to colonize the SouthWest! It was not England! England came next, and the Germans and French were treated just like they are treating the so-called ‘illegal immigrants’ from Mexico. More specifically, the Germans and French were treated as illegal immigrants in America by the English!
on May 7th, 2010 at 4:04 am
To all you “Undocumented” tree-hugging diet-Pepsi drinking bleeding heart liberals. I do believe that our country is a country of hope and compassion. However, you can be kicked in the compassion-gut so many times. You can turn a cheek – all four of them – so many times to be only continuously slapped and stabbed. There is a time when a parent must say NO…ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!
Nobody, no politician, no American, or no Law is saying that a legal immigrant or legal non-immigrant Mexican can not come into this country. The Law, by the People of the United States of America, and now by the people of Arizona, is saying any “Illegal-Immigrant” is not allowed in the country. That is Mexican, Polish, Irish, Canadian, etc.; there is no race or nationality in the law. As is written in the Arizona Law.
Why the Hispanic community (not a majority) is is upset…and immediately attacking this law? They feel that the new Arizona Law is targeting, profiling their Race? Well, if our country bordered the country of Purple People Eaters, and Purple People Eaters were transporting, trafficking, and Illegally entering our country by millions, I don’t think we would be looking at Green Martians citizens or Pink-Purple-poked-doted citizens at this border region, we would be looking at Purple People Eaters because there are 12 million of them running around, and you would be coming in contact with them more frequently. However, under this law, and a good diligent officer of the law, I would be talking and identifying the Green Martians and the Pink-Purple people also because they would stand out and have to explain their reasons for being in this country. This is not racial profiling, this is Criminal Profiling. And the race mongers, like Sharpton and Jackson, would not have a job, unless they kept the race battles going. They would not be able to afford their lavish lifestyles, unless they kept fighting over nothing but imaginary hate and racism.
You say that our law is unjust, not compassionate. Let’s look at Mexico’s immigration law; Illegal immigration is a Felony, punishable by up to 2 years in prison. Immigrants who are deported and attempt to re-enter can be imprisoned for 10 years. Visa violators can be sentenced to 6-year terms. Mexicans who help illegal immigrants are considered criminals. The law also says Mexico can deport foreigners who are deemed detrimental to “economic or national interests,” violate Mexican law, are not “physically or mentally health” or lack the “necessary funds for their sustenance” and for their dependents.
All of you U.S. Immigration law school graduates out there take a look at U.S. immigration law. I think one of you wrote that it is a “Federal Misdemeanor,” and there was no “chaos” in the streets. Go back to law school, and no “chaos” in the streets. What do think over 2200 U.S. citizens killed by illegal immigrants a year? What do you call gangs and gang violence up a hundred fold?
Those of you who do look up the law and you may read a U.S. law immigration requirements, and set prison terms, but after being in law enforcement for 25 years, only under extenuating circumstances will an illegal immigrant receive any sentence near that of Mexico. And “extenuating” I mean murder, rape, etc. I have seen them numerous times enter the U.S. and never be prosecuted. Be returned to their own country, only to see them return within 24 hours. No U.S. Attorney is going to waste their time prosecuting an illegal immigrant entering the U.S. And while checking the law, look at the requirements of a legal immigrant and legal non-immigrants in the U.S., and carrying their identification and papers on them.
And that is why the People of Arizona had to pass a law to fix the problem of Illegal Immigration that the Federal Government will not.
on May 7th, 2010 at 10:05 am
Mr. Reyes, you gave an eloquent summation of the facts. I, also, do not understand how some people are so hateful and vocal in their quest to deny basic human rights. I agree with most posters who said that it’s the last gasp of a white majority who fear the future of a brown America.
It’s also true that many Latinos have a Native American culture that was traditionally nomadic, moving from place to place to find food, clean water, shelter (jobs, now) and have no concept of “ownership” of land, much less of “conquering” an area.
It all comes down to racism, whether the nativist/militia people admit to it or not. They are white, and the people they hate are not. It’s an unfortunately ingrained mentality that will probably not change until after this generation is gone.
on May 7th, 2010 at 12:22 pm
As a nation of laws we need laws that are legal and inspired by the constitution, not paranoia over Aztlanistas. Our immigration history reflects fears of takeovers from Chinese Japanese, Irish, Jews, Itilians etc… We need just immigration laws that pleases the constitution, not ones that calm the fears of those who think the county would cease to exist w/out ‘em. That hardly makes one a liberal just a student of history.
on May 7th, 2010 at 2:00 pm
Ok, so all you people who are so concerned about the law(and for some bizarre reason, that particular law)- What are YOU doing to make legal immigration easier, thus solving the problem in the most efficient and economical way?
on May 7th, 2010 at 2:00 pm
Oh by the way Mr. Common Sense- I’m calling your sources on those claims.
on May 7th, 2010 at 11:28 pm
Mr. Dakotahgeo
Since we have never met I don’t know how you can pass judgement about my level of courtesy, respect, and consideration to others. I also don’t know how you can pass judgement on every white person and their work ethic. The topic is illegal immigration, not manners or work ethic. I also don’t know what data you are using to claim that Arizona’s economy will collapse if every non-caucasian person quit working. But since you brought it up, are you distinguishing between legal and illegal immigrants who should stop working? I’ve said it before, this is not anti-immigration, it’s anti-illegal immigration. In you next post, please verify that you understand the difference. Finally, there are procedures in place for those who want to come here to work. Temporary work visas can be issued for several labor categories including seasonal agricultrual workers (visit the US State Department website). I don’t really care if 100% of Arizona’s workforce is non-caucasian as long as they are properly documented and are here legally.
on May 7th, 2010 at 11:43 pm
There is something much more sinister in this law. “Reasonable Suspicion” is far too low of a legal standard. Probable cause can be objectively looked at by a judge and thrown out when law enforcement takes shortcuts. Reasonable suspicion is too subjective and far too open for abuse. Considering that this law was cooked up by white nationalists every bit as much as the Alien & Sedition Act of the 1920′s was cooked up by the Klan the low standard doesn’t surprise me, but it is just as unconstitutional too. These folks really need to learn so manners, but that is probably asking too much.
As a law enforcement officer in Wyoming I dealt with immigrants on a regular basis and I can tell you that Arizona’s law enforcement will suffer greatly when trying to solve much more serious crimes because no one will want to talk to them. Good luck trying to find a witness. If contact can give an officer an excuse to harass anyone “reasonably suspected” of being illegal then nobody is going to allow an officer to have contact. You can bang on that door till your fist is bruised and that door still won’t open.
Arizona has shown me one thing and that is that it does not need my money. I’ll be happy to support Latino and Native American owned business but everyone else can do without until they see the error of their ways. I think I’ll keep my vacations in New Mexico and Colorado for awhile.
on May 8th, 2010 at 12:08 am
Ruslan Amirkhanov
What are YOU doing to enforce the existing immigration laws?
Why are we so concerned about this particular law? From a April 2008 article on the California for Population Stabilization; “According to a study by the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR), 60 percent of all illegal immigrants are in six states, with California having the largest estimated number at 3,470,00. The total cost impact to these states is estimated at $27 billion annually for K-12 education, health care and criminal incarceration. This means California’s burden of accommodating illegal aliens is more than $11 billion annually, or an average of $3,200 per person, with the costs for those in the prison system well above this average number.” (http://www.capsweb.org/content.....;menu_id=8).
Currently, California’s budget gap is 19.9 billion. (Governor’s Budget Summary 2010-11) (http://www.ebudget.ca.gov/pdf/.....ummary.pdf)
Now do you see why people are so concerned about illegal immigration?
on May 8th, 2010 at 9:34 am
I will ask you again- what are you doing to facilitate more legal immigration, which is the easiest way to solve this problem.
I also notice that your claims are from an anti-immigration website. I want their sources in terms of the costs. Also, did they calculate the amount of revenue generated by the labor of immigrants, which has helped cities grow immensely in the last few years? Think about all the resorts, homes, shopping centers, malls, restaruants, and other projects built thanks to their labor- how much money is that generating for the economy?
on May 8th, 2010 at 6:43 pm
Has everyone lost sight that it’s not about politics! It’s about the law! Illegal immigrant, Hello! “Illegal”. My ansestors immigrated legally. My son-in-law immigrated legally from another country, going through all the red tape and expense that comes along with it. If you want to be part of the greatest nation on earth, great! Then do it the right way, the way responsible people do. Our country is playing a sick game with immigration, if you can sneak passed the border patrol agents, you get to stay! Well it’s not a game to me. My taxes are going to pay for the border patrol who put there lives on the line everyday. And it’s not a game to the agents who die to secure the borders each year. Let’s get our priorities straight people!
By the way, I challenge evereyone to actually read Arizona’s bill. Those who oppose it, haven’t read it.
on May 8th, 2010 at 8:01 pm
Anyone hear about the California teens chased out of their high school by Mexicans on “May 5th” because they were wearing t-shirts with American flags on them? Hmmmm, I simply can’t remember ever hearing about someone in AMERICA, being prosecuted for displaying the AMERICAN flag, on a holiday for some ethnic group before. If this doesn’t show that there is some real serious anti-American sentiment out there, I don’t know what does. My God people, cable news ran the story of the Mexican flag being raised in Maywood a few years ago, and you can still see it in all it’s glory on youtube. Do you really think that the American people are so stupid that we can’t figure out that there is something else going on other than just a big freaking job search? Not everwhere and not everyone, but as far as a dear friend of mine in California tells me, there is a real strong hatred among many Mexicans in Los Angles for Americans, and whites in general. She hears every day about the taking back of California for Mexico. From everything that I have read, La Raza does very little to hide this agenda, along with a few other radical hispanic groups. I just hope that it can all be worked out peacefully. We’re on a slippery slope…..
on May 9th, 2010 at 11:00 am
It’s funny reading all these aging hippies and their 1960s “We’re all God’s Children” crap. Face it losers: the 60s are over. You are old and decrepit. No one gives a wit about antiracism except you people that hate whites. I hope you all move to California and the rest of Meximerica but leave me alone or so help me God I will stop you.
on May 9th, 2010 at 12:19 pm
Ahhh. Common Sense. As my Dad used to say, there is no such thing, else everyone would have it. As far as FAIR being the source of your “facts”, that alone brings to mind another of Dad’s favorite self-made colloquialisms: “Either they’re lying, or they’re stupid… and I don’t think they’re stupid.” What this, to me, all boils down to basically is _cowardice_. SB1070 was brought about in the same manner as all other racist laws in this country were, through exaggeration, outright lies and fear tactics. It seems that once again, people with resources and power, rather than wanting to share, only want to keep. I am sure there are some anti “illegal immigration” folks out there who really are just what they claim, but unfortunately the vast majority are simply racist cowards. As Ruslan has stated, where are the alternatives that would make _legal_ immigration easier and therefore more efficient and economical?
Also, food for thought: Legalize drugs, especially marijuana, and you remove a HUGE part of the problem rightfully or wrongfully associated with “illegals”, increase the coffers in border states (probably wiping out any “need” to close hospitals (!) ), reduce substantially the violence also associated, especially recently, with Mexican drug cartels, and relieve large numbers from the US prison population by allowing those who really shouldn’t be there in the first place to go free.
One more thing, if “illegals” are such a problem that laws targeting the brown ones need passing, why then aren’t there more specific laws in states that have a huge violence problem with the _white_ ones, like New York and other east coast states? I, myself have worked places that employ large numbers of illegal Polish immigrants, for example; also the day to day violence perpetrated by Russian “illegals” is legendary. It once again boils down to racism, pure and simple.
“Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It both emboldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind. And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch and the blood boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizenry, infused with fear and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all of their rights unto the leader and gladly so.
How do I know?
For this is what I have done.
And I am Caesar.” — Julius Caesar
on May 9th, 2010 at 12:40 pm
I hate to break it to you people but Arizona is only passing a law that is inline with Federal law, a la Alien Registration Act in 1940, which requires all non-citizens to carry proof of status…
on May 9th, 2010 at 1:56 pm
One thing only need be said. If illegals were so pure of heart, let them leave the Mexican flag in Mexico and adopt the American flag.
I don’t think any more need be said. And yes, I have familal experience to justify that stance.
on May 9th, 2010 at 6:25 pm
“All Men are created equal”! The founders had it right, when attempting to form a perfect union and they also knew that they were not there yet but knew we one day would get there. Lincoln moved us forward as did JFK and LBJ. This Nation was founded by men of many nations and backgrounds. It was founded on the principle that all men are created equal, and that the rights of every man are diminished when the rights of one man are threatened.
It is my contention that this AZ law is not constitutional and will fail when challenged (unless they add more amendments), pretty funny for a law that many claim is perfect. Why hitch your wagon to this dead white elephant. See you in court.
on May 9th, 2010 at 6:40 pm
Thanks Carlos in DC. You’re right, they are basically indiginous people. Be glad they speak Spanish, it’s gotta be easier to learn than Navajo.
on May 12th, 2010 at 12:51 am
The Reconquista sentiment is definitely out there, but how serious the threat or movement is is hard to know. I have to say that I didn’t like what this guy had to say any more than I like the new immigration legislation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....r_embedded
on May 12th, 2010 at 9:44 pm
Again, why would people trying to escape Mexico for a country with a higher standard of living want to give all that up to be part of Mexico again? The fact is that these immigrants really have no politics other than survival.
But go on conservatives, keep being afraid of everything for no reason. It’s amusing.
on May 13th, 2010 at 9:52 am
“I’ve said it before, this is not anti-immigration, it’s anti-illegal immigration.”
——
That is simply not true, no matter how much you repeat it. The facts speak for themselves.
The laws in Arizona were drafted by FAIR (as were those in California, Farmers Branch Texas and elsewhere that later failed), a group whose stated purpose is to restrict all forms of immigration.
The critical weakness of that idea is of course that undocumented immigration occurs in direct proportion to restrictions on legal immigration. FAIR’s concept of sustainability is ludicrous, and I think most people who have studied immigration in an intellectually honest way will one way or the other have to agree.
Please look at immigration statistics from ICE. In the latest report, you will see that the vast majority of legal immigrants are granted visas on the basis of immediate family (most commonly marriage). Work visas are way down the list after that. Finally, the number of lottery visas — that is, virtually the only chance most people in the world have of being allowed to immigrate — is paltry.
If FAIR achieves its goal of reducing immigration to 200,000 – 300,000 immigrants per year, it will mean that people in this country will never get to see their husbands, wives or children again. It would be a prohibition not only on immigration but the rights of matrimony and a slap in the face to those who claim to be true supporters of “family values”.
As it stands, the US did not even grant its full quota of 50,000 diversity visas last year. In other words, under the status quo the line doesn’t move. Can you affirm with any credibility that focing immigrants from China, Haiti, the Phillipines, or elsewhere to wait ten years or forever helps limit illegal immigration?
Our Founding Fathers listed restrictions on immigration as one of the main complaints against the tyranny of colonial rule. Nothing has changed. We are still a nation of immigrants. This is one of the most basic and fundamental aspects of our society.
But if you look at other countries, such as Canada, you will see that intolerance of illegal immigration is compensated by one of the most liberal legal immigration policies anywhere in the world. As a result, you will see that illegal immigration to Canada is virtually insignificant.
This is not even to consider the obvious advantages to our nation and economy of legalizing most of the immigrants in the country with an irregular visa status. That simple and sustainable policy would drastically reduce the expenditures on deportation efforts as well as bring about more responsible behavior on the part of the unauthorized population.
on May 15th, 2010 at 4:58 pm
FEDERAL LAW SAYS IF YOU ARE NOT A CITIZEN YOU MUST CARRY PROOF OF IMMIGRATION STATUS-
This has been law since 1940!!!!! And ruled constitutional!
NON-CITIZENS HAVE NO RIGHT TO CONSTITUTIONAL PROTECTIONS, as ruled by the Supreme Court…. We have treaties with other countries where we extend each other’s citizens certain rights an such under our laws but these are only treaties… they can be revoked at any time.
on May 16th, 2010 at 3:42 pm
It never ceases to amaze me that every one against this law does not understand that this country is founded on law. If the liberals have it there way, state and local law enforcement would never be able to detain anyone who broke a law in another state or federal law. I have many friends and business aquaintents who have lost there businesses because they can not compete with the un-documented worker. They pay there workers comp and un-employment comp and the un-documented workers have nothing paid in on them. Every State should adopt the birth certificate or legalized paper policy before anyone can be hired and that will stop all of this mess.
on May 16th, 2010 at 7:56 pm
what i’d like to know is why is a british-immigrant leading a website that is “dedicated to preserving our historical unity as Americans into the 21st Century.”
maybe he should take his own advice.
on May 17th, 2010 at 2:07 pm
Bob Ruods said,
on May 15th, 2010 at 4:58 pm
FEDERAL LAW SAYS IF YOU ARE NOT A CITIZEN YOU MUST CARRY PROOF OF IMMIGRATION STATUS-
—————
Yes, that is true, but not the issue.
The issue is the constitutionality of how the law is enforced.
on May 18th, 2010 at 5:37 pm
And pray tell…. how do you enforce a law that requires aliens to carry proof of status without containing some authority for officers charged with enforcing the law to request said proof of status?
It would be like issuing driver’s licenses and saying you must have one to drive…. and then protesting when police ask to see it when you are operating a vehicle….
on May 19th, 2010 at 10:14 am
Bob Ruods,
The requirement to “carry ID” does not exist in our country except in certain specific instances, defined by state or federal law.
One, which you mention, is while driving. Another is entering a military base or other secure federal facility, and after the Patriot Act, to board an airplane. So the issue of immigration is not on its face the same as driving a vehicle.
While the privilege of driving and the privilege of circulating in the country as a foreign national do indeed both involve a requirement to present ID in certain circumstances, these guidelines do not extend to individuals not engaged in such activities. Certainly your right to cross the street without being molested by the police is as defensible as the right of the state to go about its business enforcing the law.
So we need to look at what the Constitution says, and the Scotus decisions pertaining to particular cases.
So, just as you are generally not required to present your drivers license if you are not driving, an ordinary citizen (and through the 14th Ammendment, all persons under US jurisdiction, i.e. on our soil, airspace and I would presume US Navy vessels on open seas and diplomatic facilities overseas) is under no requirement to present proof of residency on the mere suspicion of being in the country illegally. Immigrants have the requirement, but you can’t impose that requirement on citizens, so the problem is how to legally tell the difference.
In other words the issue is not at all whether immigrants must carry and produce their green card, which is true, but the means by which law enforcement can carry out such inspection in the color of law. Simply eyeballing somebody on the street and deciding to check their visa status raises a whole host of Constitutionality issues and potentiates the abuse of power. Do we look at their clothing? Can’t do it — Scotus ruled clothing is a generally protected form of expression. Accent? Eye color? Hair color? Skin tone? Surely you can see where this is going. Either these are immutable characteristics or forms of expression, and both categories are generally protected.
While there is a large gray area after Terry (research Terry stop if you don’t know the background), and some states indeed have laws requiring citizens to identify themselves to law enforcement officials, this is not tantamount to carrying documentary proof of ID (i.e. green card, drivers license, etc.). It is enough to simply state your name truthfully.
It is generally true that police may detain and question a citizen briefly when there is “reasonable” suspicion that the individual was involved in or is a material witness to a crime, but the citizen (or person under US jurisdiction) is not generally required to answer any questions and must be released after a brief period of time, or must be arrested. Once arrested, the law enforcement officer has the burden of proof and must explain during arraignment the reasons for the arrest. If they are found unreasonable, the person arrested may pursue a complaint of abuse of power in the color of law under Art 42.
There is also an requirement to ID when taken into police custody, but this cannot be forced under the 5th Ammendment. We have the right in this country to simply not answer. Of course that will delay release from jail, but it is a right. The burden of proof is on the accuser.
Certainly I can understand some people’s frustration with the difficulties in legally identifying who is and who is not an authorized immigrant, but I for one am more concerned about the preservation of civil liberties in the day to day operations of law enforcement than I am about cracking down on immigrants who do not, for whatever reason, have their green card.
on May 23rd, 2010 at 10:46 pm
You answered your own problem… Citizens do not have to carry and aliens do. So, when a officer asks a individual on the street is they are a citizen or alien, the citizen answers honestly, the legal alien shows his card and the illegal lies or becomes evasive.
If he lies but does so that doesn’t reveal nervousness or attempt to lie (the same judgement call we empower TSA to make and I think we can agree most LEOs are far better trained than TSA agents), the officer carries on and the illegal goes on. No harm, no foul. If the illegal becomes shifty, bolts, or other so action, the officer asks to see ID. In that instance, an illegal either produces ID, exposing them as illegally in the US or runs or acknowledges their presence as being illegal…
Your implication that there is racism because an officer would likely stop those of mexican descent more than others is ilrelevant. Arizona is not suffering from an influx of illegal aliens from Romania or Great Britian. So, a new shifty individual hanging around small town Arizona isn’t a common sight except those of the mexican illegal pursuasion. That’s just the truth. Just like 95% of all attempted terrorist bombings by foreigners in the US or against US assests abroad are, SHOCK, of Middle East appearance… So, if an officer saw a shifty individual who didn’t look like they belonged in their small town, guess what.. they probably DON’T. People don’t just drift into small towns… This isn’t your favorite smut novel of the tall dark handsome stranger. You have to make a special effort to to get to these places and most have no bus stops or such mass transit servicing…
The very same “we can’t target people because of how they look” thought process that we have thus far netted ourselves a few close calls and some body bags for terrorists is the same process that is responsible for thousands of robberies, murders, and other violent crimes every year from illegals… all becuase people refuse call a duck a duck on sight for fear of insulting… And the worst of it is its people who live far away from the problem trying to tell those of us dealing with it how to solve it.
on May 24th, 2010 at 12:06 pm
Bob Ruods,
The problem is not solved by your logic.
We’ll get Census results soon but official estimates are of 308 million people living in America. Our best estimates, from official sources, and confirmed by a large number of independent sources, are of 11 million undocumented immigrants.
Thus, whipping out the calculator, you can see that we’re talking about roughly 3.5% of the population.
In 2000, about 11.3% of the US population were hispanic, and that number is growing. By 2025 the Census estimates 16.8%, so for screams, let’s say 14% of the US population today is hispanic.
So you are saying it is ok to treat 14% of the population with suspicion and require police to ask of these citizens what they are not required to provide under normal circumstances (proof of identity), in order to go after the 3.5% of our population without a visa whom you (wrongly) assume are all hispanic.
In other words, under your proposal 75% of the people detained and harassed will be statistically citizens, treated as non-citizens and asked to show documents they are under no legal obligation to provide.
So, let’s take your proposal to the next level. Why don’t we throw four times as many people in jail as commit crimes, even though they are innocent, just to be sure we’ve got all the criminals?
Hey who cares if 75% are innocent. Some of them are criminals, right?
on May 24th, 2010 at 8:31 pm
No.. you fail to understand small town america…. Even in a town of 5,000- the police knew who was an illegal and who wasn’t through arrest records, interviews, and even drivers licenses and admissions to police…. however, in the state I lived in at the time, police had no power authorized by the state to arrest, detain, or deport such illegals… even though they CALLED the federal authorities to come pick them up.
The feds decline to do their duty! For DECADES! So, when the federal government decides it won’t enforce the laws of the land in defense of the people victimized by illegal immigrants, it can hardly be upset if the states decide to do it for them.
You still miss the entire capability of the law… a LEO who stops a vehicle full of illegals for a traffic offense… finds the driver has no license and isn’t even here legally. The rest in the truck are found in similiar condition, being illegals that is. They all get deported. Well, now word gets round that it isn’t a place friendly to law-breakers and the problem solves itself… namely, the illegals will go where they’re welcome, like California… and when CA goes bankrupt, NO BAILOUT. you reap what you sow.
You want your state to turn a blind eye to federal law and national security, that’s fine. Leave the rest of us to enforce the LAW.
And for the record, your estimated 11 million (some put it closer to 12.5) undocumented is, according the the Pew Hispanic Center, 57% Mexican, 24% other Latin countries, with the remainder 19% being from the rest of the world… thats about 6.3 million mexicans alone and 8.9 million hispanics. Compared to the 11.3% of the 308 million you give (34.8 million hispanics), that means in reality, 1 in every 4 is here illegally… And while that is a nationwide average, the large concentration in the south means this number is probably closer to 1 in 3 or so… recent local research puts the crime rates at alittle under 45% perpetrated by illegal immigrants…
No doubt you’ve seen the news about a man deported 9 times, now accused of rape….
on May 27th, 2010 at 5:07 pm
Bob Ruods,
I’m calling you out on your “recent local research” about crime rates at 45% by unauthorized immigrants. Please share with us where you got this data.
And for the record, in 2000 (a full decade ago) the percentage was 11.3% of the population. The population was not 308 million in 2000 as you claim — that is the estimate from Census for 2010.
Likewise, as I explained, the Latino population is growing at a fast rate and is no longer at 11.3% of the US population, but somewhere closer to the 16.8% currently estimated for 2025. We will have a better idea once the Census has completed its work for 2010.
So your calculation data are faulty and the results are objectively wrong.
I am perfectly aware that the intent of the law is to harass unauthorized immigrants. My issue is with the method used to acheive that goal.
It is not justifiable to trample the rights of citizens in an effort to deport unauthorized immigrants. Furthermore, our Constitution guarantees equal protection under the law to all persons in our jurisdiction (specifically prohibiting unequal treatment on the basis of national origin), even criminals and law breakers.
That is what distinguishes the American justice system from tyranny. It appears you have small regard for the Constitution, and little understanding of it, if you would tear it up to facilitate this wild eyed crackdown.
on June 9th, 2010 at 4:27 pm
‘
Likewise, as I explained, the Latino population is growing at a fast rate and is no longer at 11.3% of the US population, but somewhere closer to the 16.8% currently estimated for 2025. We will have a better idea once the Census has completed its work for 2010.
So your calculation data are faulty and the results are objectively wrong.
‘
I used latest census data and your own figures from your previous post… and the year is 2010, not 2025.
Information for crime statistics taken from a survey by the local citizen’s group using the police blotter printed.
on June 14th, 2010 at 3:48 pm
Bob Ruods let me take you by the hand here.
I’d like you to draw a square. Put 1% at the lower left corner. Now then put 20% at the upper left corner. Now put 2000 at the lower left corner, and 2025 at the lower right corner. Got it so far? Now here it gets complicated. Put a dot somewhere close to 11.3% in 2000. Then put a dot at 16.8% in 2025. Now, you can use a ruler if you like, draw a line between those dots. Can you see that your line is pointing upward toward the upper right hand corner of your box? How well you have done. This is population growth. You can now see that the Latino population is growing and it is no longer what it was in 2000.
So, because that line is pointing up, you can’t take 11.3% (a number from 2000) and apply it to 308 million (a number estimated for 2010), and expect to derive any meaningful conclusion from it.
Would you like to try those numbers again?
on June 17th, 2010 at 4:02 pm
Let me draw you a box….
Here’s the constitution… it specifies a census every 10 years for representation purposes… and ONLY every ten years… until the next census, those numbers are the numbers all of us go by for federal representation purposes…
Out side this box is speculation…. It means jack-crap and is in admissible in any sort of analysis of the facts because it is, by definition, opinion. Otherwise, I could speculate that due to the increasing hositlity towards illegal immigrants, the whole hispanic population drops relative to the whole, just as the Jewish population did in Germany and Russia prior to the holocaust and progroms… And were I to make such a specualtion, it would be entirely within the realm of reason and possibility. Ergo, this is why we don’t speculate in drawing and apportioning representation on what “might be”…
on August 19th, 2010 at 9:07 pm
ya’ll must be out of your minds. My grandparents were immigrants. They came here LEGALLY, learned the ENGLISH LANGUAGE, and worked all their lives paying into the UNITED STATES economy,not sending it home to Mexico. And what is with this new term “undocumented immigrant”? Whatever. That is just double speak for ILLEGAL ALIEN. I have NO PROBLEM with immigrants that come into this country legally, Mexican or otherwise, but ILLEGAL immigrants are a serious problem for this country, weather you want to recognize it or not.
GO ARIZONA!