Hatewatch Tweets
Hatewatch is managed by the staff of the Intelligence Report, an investigative magazine published by the Alabama-based civil rights group Southern Poverty Law Center.
Who is Jared Lee Loughner?
Is Jared Lee Loughner, the alleged mass murderer who shot U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords of Arizona, a right-wing extremist?
It’s hard to say. When you look at the Internet material he purportedly produced, the first impression you get is that the 22-year-old now in custody for the shooting of 20 people in Tucson was completely out of his mind, or at least mildly deranged. His writings will be virtually impossible for most people to understand, what with his runs of unexplained numbers, his fondness for weird syllogisms, his mysterious references and his apparent semi-literacy.
That said, there are some clues.
At one point, Loughner refers disparagingly to “currency that’s not backed by gold or silver.” The idea that silver and gold are the only “constitutional” money is widespread in the antigovernment “Patriot” movement that produced so much violence in the 1990s. It’s linked to the core Patriot theory that the Federal Reserve is actually a private corporation run for the benefit of unnamed international bankers. So-called Patriots say paper money — what they refer to with a sneer as “Federal Reserve notes” — is not lawful.
At another, Loughner makes extraordinarily obscure comments about language and grammar, suggesting that the government engages in “mind control on the people by controlling grammar.” That’s not the kind of idea that’s very common out there, even on the Internet. In fact, I think it’s pretty clear that Loughner is taking ideas from Patriot conspiracy theorist David Wynn Miller of Milwaukee. Miller claims that the government uses grammar to “enslave” Americans and offers up his truly weird “Truth-language” as an antidote. For example, he says that if you add colons and hyphens to your name in a certain way, you are no longer taxable. Miller may be mad as a hatter, but he has a real following on the right.
Loughner talks about how you “can’t trust the government” and someone burns a U.S. flag in one of the videos attributed to him. Although certain right-wing websites are already using that (and his listing of The Communist Manifesto as one of his favorite books) to claim that Loughner was a “left-winger,” that does not strike me as true. The main enemy of the Patriot movement is certainly the federal government. And so-called Patriots have certainly engaged in acts like burning the flag.
Finally, I think Loughner’s reading list, although it included children’s books and a few classics, had an underlying theme — the individual versus the totalitarian state. Certainly, that’s the explicit central theme of Ayn Rand’s We the Living and Orwell’s 1984 and Animal Farm, among others. I would argue that that’s the way Loughner seems to be reading The Communist Manifesto and Hitler’s Mein Kampf — as variants of a kind of generalized “smash the state” attitude.
Chip Berlet of Political Research Associates, which does similar work to that of Hatewatch, points out in a post earlier today that Loughner also makes a reference to a “second American constitution.” As Chip notes, that is commonly understood to refer to the Reconstruction amendments that freed the slaves and gave them citizenship, among other things. Chip says that “raises the question of a possible racist and anti-immigrant tie” in the Arizona shooting.
On top of that, Fox News is reporting on an internal Department of Homeland Security message suggesting some tie between Loughner and American Renaissance, a kind of white-collar racist group.
I can’t speak to those allegations, although a federal official in a position to know gave me some details that made it clear the alleged link to American Renaissance appears very weak. Outside of what Chip pointed out, I didn’t see anything that suggested racial, anti-Semitic or anti-immigrant animus in Loughner’s writings. Certainly, there’s nothing I saw at all reminiscent of American Renaissance, which focuses heavily on the alleged intellectual and psychological inferiority of black people.
At this early stage, I think Loughner is probably best described as a mentally ill or unstable person who was influenced by the rhetoric and demonizing propaganda around him. Ideology may not explain why he allegedly killed, but it could help explain how he selected his target.
One thing that seems clear is that Giffords, who was terribly wounded but survived, was the nearest and most obvious representative of “the government” that Loughner could find. Another is that he likely absorbed some of his anger from the vitriolic political atmosphere in the United States in general and Arizona in particular. Perhaps no one made that point better than Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik, speaking to a press conference yesterday. “When you look at unbalanced people, how they respond to the vitriol that comes out of certain mouths about tearing down the government… The anger, the hatred, the bigotry that goes on in this country is getting to be outrageous and unfortunately Arizona has become sort of the capital. We have become the mecca for prejudice and bigotry.”
on January 9th, 2011 at 6:34 pm
I don’t know anything about Jared Loughner’s views, etc., but 2nd Constitution could potentially refer to the current document with the 1st constitution being the Articles of Confederation, which created a weaker federal government. That was how I initially interpreted that particular phrase from Loughner (although I will admit that I’d never heard of the post-Reconstruction Consitution as the 2nd.) I suppose only Loughner really knows what he meant by that particular phrase.
on January 9th, 2011 at 6:48 pm
We are too quick to link violence to mental health issues.
Persons with schizophrenia and other mental health conditions are 10 times more likely to be the victims of violent crime, not the perpetrators.
So why is mental illness always the go-to reasoning?
Because it’s easy. Because of the stigma of mental illness, perpetuated by the media and entertainment.
The truth is, we don’t know Loughner’s motivation yet. So let’s reserve judgement, and stop stigmatizing the millions of Americans struggling with mental health concerns by assuming this man must have one himself.
I’d encourage you to visit http://www.bc2m.org and read more.
on January 9th, 2011 at 6:50 pm
As Max Blumenthal tweeted, this is the best analysis to date on the web of his motivations. Thank you for the thoughtful piece.
on January 9th, 2011 at 6:55 pm
Given that this site is supposed to try to protest and fight hate speach and it’s effects, it is incredibly disheartening to see an article so full of ableism and prejudices against people with menatal illnesses. It is incredibly damaging to these people when the default explanation for violent murder is “the perp was carzy/ deranged”. As far as I know, there has not been any diagnosis of mental illness. It is just easier for people to blame this on some “crazy lone gunmen” than to accept the fact that sane people can kill like this just as easily as those with mental illness. And it is a form of scapegoating that seems to always happen when the perpetrator is a white, christian American. I am pretty sure if this had been done by a brown muslim, no one would be calling him crazy- everyone would be talking about obvious muslim terrorism.
I am aware that the “obviously crazy” meme is sadly widespread, but I expected better here.
on January 9th, 2011 at 6:58 pm
Begin researching the CIA MK-Ultra program.
on January 9th, 2011 at 7:05 pm
This guy is sick minded. I hope they find who he has ties too so it can be taken care of. This was senseless, intolerable, and inexcusable.
on January 9th, 2011 at 7:05 pm
Government mind-control on grammar? Not, according to the high percentage of misspelled signs at the Tea Party and Beck rallies. Wow. This is scary. This is only a speck on the horizon of loonies. There are bunkers all over this nation (UTAH!) where they store weapons like cord wood. Oath Keepers and “patriot” freaks are germinating, as we speak. I have stumbled onto blogs and websites that make Hitler and the Nazis seem like choirboys. Rightwing talk radio incites enough, but they are not on the DL, like a lot of these thugs. They cater to unbalanced, disenfranchised folks, such as this Loughner. It is Twilight Zone time, and I, for one, am uncomfortable, being a liberal. I moved to Nashville with an Obama sticker on my car, and was quickly forced to remove it. Be afraid…
on January 9th, 2011 at 7:08 pm
Mark, thanks for doing the homework and reporting. I’ve been saying all day that it sounds more like the Oklahoma City bombing than anything else.
Your old friend from Sierra Club–Kerri
on January 9th, 2011 at 7:09 pm
Some very good research here. What lines there are to find can be drawn. And, honestly, if Loughlin were a crazy left-winger, he would’ve targeted a Republican congressperson.
on January 9th, 2011 at 7:13 pm
Overall, an interesting and illuminating post on which of this man’s ideas are influenced by Patriot ideology. But why does a post on the Southern Poverty Law Centers site, of all places, engage in such disparaging language around the issue of mental illness? “Completely out of his mind, or at least mildly deranged,” and “mad as a hatter.” Why could you not stick to the more neutral and less derogatory, “mentally ill or unstable person”?
You may not mean it to be so, but such language as yours is inflammatory at times like this. Look at the backlash against a mental health based defense that emerged after the Reagan shooting. The right to assert that one was “not guilty by reason of insanity,” was greatly curtailed in the wake of public outrage over John Hinckley, Jr’s plea. It may or may not turn out in the end that this man has a major mental illness, let alone whether he is entitled to a defense based on his mental health. But, if time reveals that he does have a mental illness, it will be important for all people of good will to stand united in protecting the rights of our fellow citizens with mental illness against a backlash based on repugnance with one man’s actions. The first step in that process is to think about the language being used to describe mental illness.
on January 9th, 2011 at 7:13 pm
Although I hadn’t researched his writings, I did listen to the Sheriff’s comments last night and I am terribly sad to admit he is likely quite right. People who are mentally unstable take the current rhetoric in this country full of hatred and vile accusations to heart and embrace this in
their unstable state as absolutely true. I am very worried about where this country is going. Thank you for reviewing his ramblings.
on January 9th, 2011 at 7:15 pm
Part of the beauty of democracy is that even the ignorant, uninfomed, illiterate, and degenerate have a say…we rest on the assurance that more level heads will prevail as a majority. I think its very sad to spend any energy trying to politicize this awful event! The bottom line is that this young man is a text-book schizophrenic who was spiraling into the depths of his mental illness. What we should be discussing is how do we better address the needs of people with mental illess and the fact that we need to be able to employ civil committment with greater ease, not simply on the preface that it must be that one present a danger to self or others!!! This is not about politics…its about how behavioral health service and law enforcement need to join forces to protect the public. This is about MENTAL ILLNESS..no more, no less. Mr. Loughner is not the first whack to kill and innocent person and he will not be the last…not as long as we chase our tails and play politics while people suffering with real mental issues walk our streets, inhabit our jails, and do not get the treatment they need or are left free to hurt others in their delusional, paranoid and enraged states. This is about changing laws on CIVIL COMMITTMENT at the federal level!!!!! If we can legalize abortion, why is this so effin diificult to address?
on January 9th, 2011 at 7:18 pm
Thanks for doing this research for the rest of us.
Also, I’m encouraging everyone to stop using the words “Fox” and “News” in the same title. Call it “Fox Network” but do not legitimize their claims that what they espouse is anything close to news. Just because they call themselves that doesn’t mean the rest of us have to buy into their mislabeling and false advertising.
Please help spread the word.
on January 9th, 2011 at 7:18 pm
This is the most detailed analysis of Loughner’s posts that I have seen. Very interesting. I really wish that the events of yesterday wouldn’t have happened.
on January 9th, 2011 at 7:30 pm
This freak chose Congresswoman Giffords after meeting and receiving a letter from her in 2007. I seriously don’t know how the left has the nerve to try to blame the right and the TeaParty for this.
What they are doing is dangerous and sounds alot like they r trying to incite violence against those they are blaming.
Enjoy these links as they debunk your theory. Plz be careful who you try to blame for this tragedy. Ur doing what u claim to despise.
Links:
(1) Classmate describes shooter as “left wing pot head”
http://www.google.com/gwt/x?u=.....hooter.php
(2) Shooter “planned ahead” according to writings dated 2007. Tea Party took off in 2008….. fuzzy math from the left…
http://www.google.com/gwt/x?u=.....index.html
(3) A buttload of blog posts, you tube videos, twitter feeds, etc. of blame from the left irresponsibly directed at Palin, Beck & the Tea Party.
http://independentandconservat.....ragic.html
(4) Maybe Obama incited the shooter… Obama said “if they bring a knife to fight, then we bring a gun”. FACT!
http://on.wsj.com/aeHbL6
(5) Left Wing Daily Kos Put “Bull’s-Eye” On Congresswoman Giffords, Targeted As A “Sell Out”
http://bit.ly/eT6YKS
This is just the start. I’ve got more when your ready. Let me know.
on January 9th, 2011 at 7:31 pm
The inflammatory, hateful words of Limbaugh/Hannity/Levin were bound to catch fire with someone. It was only a matter of time. Granted, we do not know enough about this recent tragedy to pinpoint what caused it, but if not this one, then they might be responsible for the next. I do not understand the total lack of civility in this country. And I get sick of hearing the conservatives saying they want to take back “their” country. It is my country too, and they cannot love it any more than I do. Sheriff Dupnik said it all with his comment at the press conference yesterday. Both sides of the political arena need to reassess their behavior, but I do feel the right is far more radical and incendiary in their rhetoric.
on January 9th, 2011 at 7:32 pm
its time we act like civil tongued amercans…not like deranged animals.
on January 9th, 2011 at 7:43 pm
Good piece Mark. Thank you for your thoughtful comments.
on January 9th, 2011 at 7:44 pm
I agree that discourse int his country has reached a state where those on the fringe feel that violent acts such as that which occured yesterday will be tolerated and/or approved. We as individuals in this country need to stop and think before we spout our invective. While I admit a certain amount of vitrolic rhetoric is endemic and should be tolerated as a matter of Freedom of Speech, there are limits. When the killing of another human being is espoused becuase of their vote (a Contitutional right) or when we say “If ballots don’t work, then bullets will” we are stepping over the line into anarchy. This is saying that we have the right to kill others who disagree with us. That is NOT America. If laws are broken then fight at the balot box or in the courts. Prosecute not Execute.
on January 9th, 2011 at 7:55 pm
This way madness lies. In the depths of paranoia, anger or worse, bad ideas, of which the afflicted alone appreciates the “truth,” govern actions. I find, based on what I read and hear, disturbing parallels with Lee Harvey Oswald.
on January 9th, 2011 at 7:59 pm
Well said, Mark.
on January 9th, 2011 at 8:07 pm
I suppose this is all necessary and within your realm of expertise. I appreciate the work you do and have been a past contributor. But considering Sirhan Sirhan and the evidence of mind-control in the case of the RFK shooting, you do a poor job here. You don’t even consider that this may be a factor, and to discredit such speculation, you dismiss his rhetoric and mindset as disturbed or mentally ill. A good researcher or police detective would not rule out such possibilities so quickly.
on January 9th, 2011 at 8:20 pm
meh, it’s obvious that you made up your mind before you knew who the shooter was. This isnt so much of an analysis as it is a ‘how can I paint this guy as a right winger?’ piece.
on January 9th, 2011 at 8:24 pm
Well articulated and useful. Thank you for this and for the work of the SPLC.
on January 9th, 2011 at 8:27 pm
Very elegantly summed up, thank you!
on January 9th, 2011 at 8:27 pm
you’re in error when you repeat the mistaken claim that it is one of “his” videos that depicts “someone burns a U.S. flag in one of his videos.” That video was posted by someone else entirely. Please remove this disinformation as it is in error.
on January 9th, 2011 at 8:29 pm
Mr.. Potok states well the complicated issues. With a tragedy like this we all want to place blame or at least understand why. Mr. Loughner obviously has serious mental health issues. But he did make choices and what influenced his choices should be looked at closely. He is responsible for the injuries and deaths he caused but no one acts entirely on his own. Each day of our lives we hear and see things that influence our behavior. Every time something like this happens in America I look at my own personal behavior and try to make it more peaceful, more caring.
on January 9th, 2011 at 8:38 pm
FWIW, many on the right are also painting Loughner as a liberal because someone who knew him in school described him that way. Problem is, those descriptions are about 2006/2007. Just in the past year is his fixation on property rights, the gold standard, and having referred to a community college classmate as a terrorist for getting an abortion. All of those issues of course are traditionally right-wing concerns, not liberal concerns. And 2010 is more recent than 2007.
on January 9th, 2011 at 8:51 pm
SPLC or other attorneys should file lawsuits against Sarah Palin, the Tea party and the Republican party in the same manner as filed against hate groups because these are the source of much anti government rhetoric and much of it in terms of targeting people. This congresswoman’s opponent is supposed to have had a rally and shot off guns with matching violent rhetoric. Sarah Palin is supposed to show people as targets on her website. This propaganda and calls to violence are, along with the big lie routine, typical of nazi propaganda. People need to be painfully made aware of their responsibility for inciting people to take violent action. They don’t listen to words. They need to be prosecuted and or made to pay huge amounts of money – both the politicians and their political backers.
on January 9th, 2011 at 8:58 pm
Great analysis. The cable people dismiss him as crazy and apolitical but the reading list and references struck me as out of the Glenn Beck arsenal of incoherent violent demagoguery.
on January 9th, 2011 at 9:04 pm
This is a good study of this question. “What is right wing?” is a more complicated question than it seems. Anyone who has studied the Tea Party knows they are the base of conservatism today, but there’s a base inside that base with some very strange beliefs. New World Order, government run concentration camps, and strange theories on taxation and currency. These people probably don’t call themselves Republicans, but they definitely side with the Tea Party.
on January 9th, 2011 at 10:25 pm
My first reaction to Loughner’s insistence on equating logic with “English grammar,” especially considering his context, was an allusion to non-English speaking peoples in the area. Do you think this is too far of a stretch?
Personally, I think Loughner is more symptomatic of a pervasive white middle-class nihilistic youth that I find in my students, where some borrow a hodge-podge of political beliefs that are oriented more towards an “individual vs. state” dynamic (which you pointed out) that cannot be easily categorized. Which is part of the reason that I think the “media” is going to have a hard time parsing out whether he’s an extreme “anarchist” or right-wing anti-statist extremist, because there are folks who straddle straddle those contradictions. In more honest times, we called it “fascism.”
on January 9th, 2011 at 10:34 pm
It really does not matter if he was right wing or left wing. He was full of hate towards his congresswoman and fellow citizens. He was seeing them not as people. We have to stop the hate talk. We need to start seeing each other as people. We may passionately disagree. To hate the idea is ok but not the person.
Our government is people. Those we vote into office. We need to start remembering politicians are actually people. People doing a pretty tough job that many of us would not do for a million $. And yet our country won’t work if no one is willing to do it. The constitution is a pile of useless paper without anyone willing to serve in government. I’m sick to death of cynicism.
on January 9th, 2011 at 10:42 pm
Sarah Palin’s favorite, Sharon Angle and her, “Second Amendment solutions,” along with Palin’s crosshairs over the State of Arizona and exhortations to, “take Gifford out,” pretty much leaves no doubt where the responsibility for whipping up the psychos lays.
But most of the blame goes to Rupert Murdoch, the master of whipping up the emotions of the ignorant and the crazy, and his employee Roger Ailes.
on January 9th, 2011 at 10:45 pm
Kudos to the Sheriff for saying what we all have said..the extreme and not so extreme right wing hate rhetoric is dangerous and must stop. We can return to fruitful dialogue without violent imagery such as portrayed so visually by Sara Palin and the anti-abortion groups. Thanks SPLC for addressing this very important issue as quickly as you have.
on January 9th, 2011 at 10:45 pm
He hardly seems like a “follower” of Ayn Rand. The Libertarian pledge, a statement individuals must sign in order to join the Libertarian Party of the United States, declares, “I hereby certify that I do not believe in or advocate the initiation of force as a means of achieving political or social goals.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_pledge
on January 9th, 2011 at 10:45 pm
This is a perfect example of why it is the responsibility of people in power (whether they be politicians, preachers, or news anchors) to moderate their speech. Though what he did is no one’s fault but his own, when people in power apply such openly violent rhetoric (totting guns at rallies, telling people that the government wants to kill them) it is a matter of time before unstable people take these messages literally.
on January 9th, 2011 at 10:51 pm
Thank you for a very well written and thought out article.
I personally believe the kid had severe undiagnosed mental problems and I don’t doubt that the constant atmosphere of political hate and conspiracy theories in the country drove him over the edge.
What I can’t understand is this.
He was suspended from college until he got psychiatric help and yet was able to pass a background check to get a semi automatic pistol two months later. How?
He was refused induction into the army. Why?
Did they think he was unstable?
He lived at home. Did his parents not notice any strange behavior?
Still a lot of questions.
on January 9th, 2011 at 11:13 pm
I was struck by the words “conscience dreaming,” that he mentions in his youtube videos. There is a phenomena called “conscious dreaming.” Some new age groups get excited about it… “lucid dreaming” is the more popular name for it.
on January 9th, 2011 at 11:37 pm
Perhaps many people have condemned him as a “right winger” in that his rhetoric with its anti-government paranoia sounds the same to them. He definitely sounds more mentally ill than right wing to me. His barely literate rants against the illiterate in the 8th district definitely sound like projection and denial, to key components of most mental illness.
on January 10th, 2011 at 12:24 am
One commenter wrote, “And, honestly, if Loughlin were a crazy left-winger, he would’ve targeted a Republican congressperson.”
- This is simply not true. Before Germany invaded Poland, they faked an attack by the Polish near the German-polish border, to use as justification for the invasion. This was called Operation Himmler.
- There have been other, similar operations planned, including Operation Northwoods, during JFK’s administration, to fake an attack by Cuban terrorists against the US as justification for invading and effecting “regime change” in Cuba.
If “conscience dreaming” is a sign of mind control, as in the case of Sirhan-Sirhan, then it would be a mistake to oversimplify the suspects affiliations and motives.
on January 10th, 2011 at 12:29 am
is any one surprised that this happened in arizona……like the sheriff said arizona is now the mecca of hate in this country.if you are a right winger/republican in that state and are running for office forget about the real issues like unemployment and the economy to get elected just scapegoat and hate,hate,hate and you will be elected.i think that it is also time to pull the plug on the poison and lies that fox news spews on a daily basis….and lets not spin this or pretend that this nut was not a right winger…he was anti government and his hero was hitler what more proof do you need and unfortunately there are many more right wing nuts out there just waiting to act out on all the garbage and lies they here from the right.how can any state allow themselves to be governed by diehard bigots like russel pearce is just beyond comprehension.
on January 10th, 2011 at 12:40 am
North Carolina because of money problems has closed mental health clinics leaving a lot of people without medicine or treatment. Hospital ER rooms are keeping people until they either leave of their own volition or finally get a bed in a mental ward that opens up. These people are sick and Arizona doesn’t have a closed market on bigotry or Hate rhetoric prevalent not only in media types but also in some religious circles. FOX NEWS is horrible in this regard in my opinion.
on January 10th, 2011 at 2:25 am
“He hardly seems like a “follower” of Ayn Rand. The Libertarian pledge, a statement individuals must sign in order to join the Libertarian Party of the United States, declares, “I hereby certify that I do not believe in or advocate the initiation of force as a means of achieving political or social goals.””
Yeah, because Libertarians are one monolithic group who all take this pledge, and we all know libertarians also never contradict themselves horribly.
Obviously this guy, despite his “left-wing” past, was influenced by some reactionary ideas. Not the straight Tea Party ticket but he clearly had been influenced by some “sovereign citizen ideas.” Certain movements tend to be populist as well. This means that while their content tends to be right-wing and reactionary(sometimes very much so), they will attempt to sell their ideas to progressive people as well. They are more than willing to conceal their hatred for other values in order to recruit more people to the cause. Loughner was a 9-11 conspiracy believer, and also believed in the threat of a New World Order.
His social values were interesting as well. Reportedly in a class where a girl read a poem about abortion, he laughed out loud and said, “Wow, she’s just like a terrorist, she killed a baby.”
That some people might have seen him as “left-wing” is not a surprise; when Bush was in charge, anyone anti-government was often assumed to be left wing. Thank Fox News for the “don’t criticize the president during war,” idea. But people need to remember that regressive, reactionary ideas have a stronger hold on people than progressive values. I remember a story about an individual who tried to join a communist party once, and was rejected for having extremely right-wing views on a number of topics. He was shocked and couldn’t understand what happened. For whatever reason, he believed that Communism was the ideal way to achieve his social goals, without even considering the values and history of Marxism. I’m sure he will find the right-wing group which suits him in the future.
Anyway, clearly this guy does seem to exhibit signs of serious mental illness, but one thing that certainly doesn’t help is the proliferation of conspiracy theories which only go to confirm paranoid delusions.
on January 10th, 2011 at 3:08 am
This is his entire Youtube channel archived.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqIZ-GMxsPA
on January 10th, 2011 at 3:12 am
Those spreading hate, fear, paranoia and vitriol heaping unimaginable damage on our society will never cease so long and they make multi-millions of dollars and gloat in their ruptured egos. Therefore, why can’t we identify products sold and businesses promoted on their TV, Radio and Printed media and begin a grass rootes campaign to boycot relevant products and inform the captains of industry manufactruing and distributing the goods. The time may be ripe to stirr some corrective action while educating that portion of the population who are beginning to understand the relationship between attacks on the government and repeated acts of terror and death. Why wait to react to episodes of hate when we must attempt to attack the cause? With the internet and social networks, we could get this going big time. SPLC knows how to get this done. I and others will devote much time and effort to this important cause. The time has come. Columbus Ellis
on January 10th, 2011 at 6:34 am
Doesn’t the anti-bank thing reek of antisemitism to you? There’s a video about the whole thing (whose name I don’t recall, unfortunately), where the guy spends the whole thing talking about “the moneylenders” and crap. I think the banks/”money grubbing Jews” connection isn’t so hard to make.
on January 10th, 2011 at 7:44 am
If you can’t speak to the truth of allegations, why repeat them? The facts appear to be that this was the act of a lone vigilante and no one knows why he did it. The facts will emerge, but isn’t it reasonable to suspend judgment til they do?
on January 10th, 2011 at 7:48 am
This writeup is full of ableism, slurs against the mentally ill, perpetuation of the myth that mental illness is inexorably linked to violence, bigotry, and other nastiness.
Even people who suffer from schizophrenia (the most demonized/”dangerous” mental illness in the public consciousness) are overwhelmingly more likely to hurt themselves than hurt others.
To use mental illness as shorthand for violent/undesirable behavior is disingenuous and only serves to further marginalize and oppress people with mental illness.
I expected better from you, SPLC.
on January 10th, 2011 at 7:52 am
@Jordan, it is neither desirable nor possible to restrict speech down to the level of what the average psychotic would not be disturbed by. Especially constitutionally-protected speech. Freedom entails risk.
on January 10th, 2011 at 8:52 am
Is this the time to attempt to quieten the hate and fear mongers who drive some over the edge and many to hateful, uncivil and politically dysfunctional behavior? Why wait to respond to some hate crime event when we ought to proactively attempt to reduce some causation? As long as it remains so financially rewarding, the right wing entrepeneurs will continue to play to their base of contributors and customers. Recognizing their right to free speech, why not identify the sponsors of their programs and develop a grass roots movement to boycot those products that in the final analysis keep this cycle of vitrioilic hate going? Columbus Ellis
on January 10th, 2011 at 9:15 am
The ‘right-wing’ is as much to blame for the tragedy in Arizona as J.D. Salinger was for the murder of John Lennon or The Beatles were for the murder of Sharon Tate.
This is not a political issue. This is a mental health issue. This is based on one young man’s psychotic episode that reportedly has been building since last November. Grieve and stop the finger pointing, please.
on January 10th, 2011 at 9:18 am
“The bankers” or “the international bankers” was an old euphemism for Jews in many right wing circles, but it has been used so much to the point where many people pick these terms up and have no idea what they originally meant.
on January 10th, 2011 at 9:44 am
In my salad days, I worked the nut wards of Miami, and there’s no question in my mind that this is the kind of guy who was routinely brought into Jackson when the moon was yellow. But your usual schizophrenic is not dangerous. This fellow was indeed spouting Sovereign Citizen memes, as well as those of a few other unpleasant groups that have been delineated herein and heretofor. Either someone has been working on him to mold his nuttiness into the desired shape, or the atmosphere itself is so charged with red vitriol that it is detonating the formerly harmless unstable. Presumably, the former is being investigated. It is time for you, and us, to speak out against the latter: crosshairs, Fox News, Clearchannel, certain members of Congress, and all.
on January 10th, 2011 at 10:48 am
“This writeup is full of ableism, slurs against the mentally ill, perpetuation of the myth that mental illness is inexorably linked to violence, bigotry, and other nastiness.”
Look, we all understand that most schizophrenics are not violent. We don’t know exactly which disability Loughner had, but clearly mental illness is part of the equation here. It’s not an attack on all mentally ill people. And please stop with this “ableist” nonsense, as if disabled people and people without obvious disabilities are two monolithic groups of people united in common cause.
on January 10th, 2011 at 10:56 am
@Amy Bagadonuts
1) Your first peice of “evidence” is a Twitter post. In case you haven’t forgotten, the internet is anonymous therefore that may or may not have been Jared Loughner’s friend actually commenting.
2)A constituent correspondence with the congresswoman was dated 2007, the notes indicating that he “planned ahead” were undated, and he attempted to join the army in the intervening time which indicates that he had not been actively planning this for four years (being sent away on an assignment by the U.S. Army generally foils any plans for political assissination)
3) Circular logic (this is WHAT you are arguing, therefore it cannot be “evidence” in your argument)
4) You try to use ONE piece of violent rhetoric from a left-wing politician to balance out a SEE of hate-filled paranoia and violent rhetoric from far-right politicians
5) Your only citation for this is a piece of pro-palin propaganda. This is like trying to show that Blacks are less intelligent by citing a “scientific study” by the KKK
@Mary Did you actually read what I said? I did not say “restrict speech” I said it is the PERSONAL responsibility of THOSE IN POWER to MODERATE their speech. As for what speech might set off the “average psychotic”, there is no way to know and yes their is a chance that anything could set off a violent and unstable person. But by spreading paranoia, fear, and aggression one is far more likely to incite a violent and dilusional person to action than with any other wording. Also, you act as though the idea of moderating one’s speech when speaking in public is a knew idea, I can assure you that it is not, in fact there is even a word for it: decorum. When one speaks on the public stage one does not shout profanities, one does not spout fallacy, and one does not incite or condone violence. This isn’t something that SHOULD be put in place, it is something that is already in place but which these politicians have forgotten.
on January 10th, 2011 at 11:05 am
Well said, Mark. Whether Loughner is indeed mentally ill (and the signs are there that he has some issues in that direction), I think it’s important to acknowledge the influences that may have set him off. I’ve heard of a lot of these conspiracy theories (mostly thanks to the Law Center’s work) and Loughner sounds like he was operating off a potpourri of these ideas. And the nastiness that pervades our political discourse today certainly didn’t help either. When you have Sarah Palin and others using violent imagery to talk about their opponents, it’s really no surprise that this happened eventually.
on January 10th, 2011 at 11:13 am
“At this early stage, I think Loughner is probably best described as a mentally ill or unstable person who was influenced by the rhetoric and demonizing propaganda around him.”
I seriously don’t comprehend the need for these contortions to apply blame. Soon enough what the Loughner was thinking will be established, and the degree to which the inflammatory rhetoric of the right was or was not a factor will be established. It won’t matter what’s established then, as the left as set the narrative and it is that, apparently, inflammatory rhetoric — exclusively from the so-called Tea Partiers — is a factor. What of the writings of Marx or Hitler, to which we all now know Loughner to have been exposed? There’s enough “radical” and/or inflammatory sentiment expressed in those writings — particularly when, somehow, taken in concert — for these apparent contemporary right wing calls to violence to be unnecessary.
The author here is correct in observing, as most have also done, that the ideological hodge-podge reading list of Loughner’s does have a seeming overall, albeit unspecific, “anti-state” slant. The Tea Party a) is really not all that radical in regards to that rhetoric, I’m afraid (as they’re really just Republican business as usual, after all is said and done), and b) are not the inventors of such sentiments.
on January 10th, 2011 at 11:13 am
Nice, sober assessment of the early information.
On the mental health topic, when I first got the news of this horrible incident, CNN was talking with a psychologist or psychiatrist whose name I didn’t bother to remember. This “expert” seemed to be saying that belief in conspiracy theories is a reliable symptom of mental illness. If that’s the case, when do we start the involuntary committment proceeding against Beck?
As for the vicarious responsibility of Beck, Palin, Savage et. al, I’m reminded of the assassination of Thomas Becket. King Henry II wondered aloud, “Will no one rid me of this turbulent priest?” and then pretended to be surprised when his followers went out and did the murder. History rightly blames the king, and it will also rightly blame the hate-inciters of today.
on January 10th, 2011 at 12:03 pm
Just breaking…
WSJ confirms from witness Loughner hated Bush, and opposed the War in Iraq.
Also video footage now breaking of Congresswoman Giffords being harrassed by leftwing 9/11 Truthers for her support of the War in Iraq in 2007.
And this earth-shattering news!! AP has just confirmed Loughner was a “9/11 Truther.” Another witness says Loughner was an antiwar activist on the college campus in AZ.
on January 10th, 2011 at 12:04 pm
Great article, however, like others have stated the mental illness portion leaves much to be desired.
I suggest reading this piece from The Guardian as a counterpoint and critique of our rushing to diagnose Loughner: http://www.guardian.co.uk/scie.....e-loughner
on January 10th, 2011 at 12:13 pm
David Wynn Miller (as you describe) is the best ‘explanation’ for least decipherable excerpts of loughner.
—
“so-called Patriots have certainly engaged in acts like burning the flag.”
“like”? no actual flagburning? what are the acts?
(rather unrelated: i’ve wondered why kkk burned crosses. seems they’d offend themselves as much as their “targets”)
—
“I suppose only Loughner really knows what he meant by that particular phrase.”
More likely, he doesn’t either :-/
—
“Completely out of his mind, or at least mildly deranged,” and “mad as a hatter.” Why could you not stick to the more neutral and less derogatory, “mentally ill or unstable person”?
Good point. Related to that; i was tempted to fake rightwing “outrage” in a comment, but this site is not appropriate.
However, Loughner appears to be very illogical at times. Is that “illness?” Choose your terminology.
—
Dupnik is most “on target”. Many RW blogs are pre-whining about 2nd amendment and “never let a crisis go to waste”. Sadly, RW still won’t face the problem that weapon aficianados have caused.
on January 10th, 2011 at 12:36 pm
Freudian psychiatry recognized long ago that while the incidence of psychosis is found to be fairly equal across borders in all societies, the content of psychotic minds varies with the surrounding culture of the afflicted person.
Jeffrey Simon has recently forecast, accurately, the rise of lone operator terrorists whose motivations may vary according to their exposure to ideas around them.
We can not take comfort in, but we can take responsibility for the epidemic of violent speech that saturates our media, especially on talk radio and the Internet. Hate speech plus low enforcement of gun laws and registration leaves us vulnerable to more tragedies like the one in Tucson.
on January 10th, 2011 at 12:43 pm
“What of the writings of Marx or Hitler, to which we all now know Loughner to have been exposed”
Oh yeah, during my morning “drivetime”, i become so weary of Engels All The Time radio. I change radio stations, and it’s Engels again. I can’t escape Engels! (overthrowing a monarchy would really hit the spot right now!)
I need to move to a city where they do Stephen Hawking All The Time radio.
________
BTW, I’ve never read Hitler Marx, Engels etc. Are political philosophers as graphically violent as (eg) “Michael savage”?
on January 10th, 2011 at 12:47 pm
Where are the interviews with his current or former girlfriend(s)? None mentioned anywhere so far, maybe none exist?How much of a role did sexual frustration play (and the fact that his main target was not only a Representative but also an attractive woman of power?
What role if any do his parents with whom he lived have in this tragedy and its buildup?
Have they made any public statement? Are they at an undisclosed location? Why have the news media blocked off even mentioning their names, occupations, backgrounds? Does he have sibs? What do they say?
A few chilling Oswald parallels besides the three names w/ Lee being one. Buildup period featured public demonstrations of instability attracting official attention but falling short of arrest. (Oswald demonstrated with “Fair Play for Cuba” signs in New Orleans in the early 60s, Loughner repeatedly disrupted college classes and libraries to the point of campus security being called. Marina, Oswald’s wife, reputedly rejected him sexually before the JFK shooting.) The fictional movie “Executive Action” on the JFK assassination showed the plotters gloating about how Oswald’s political history was so “all over the map” that nobody could pin him definitively to any one group. (Oswald had been in the US military, defected to Russia, then returned to US with Russian born wife all before he was 26.)Lougner’s poltical sentiments also seem scattered from one side to the other , mainly highlighting his feelings of isolation and alienation.
on January 10th, 2011 at 12:48 pm
Sarah Palin and her pals should be proud of their latest “accomplishment.” They didn’t pull the trigger, but they created the atmosphere that made this tragedy almost inevitable.
on January 10th, 2011 at 12:56 pm
Tucson shooting suspect Jared Loughner linked to fanatical magazine American Renaissance
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new.....sance.html
Jared Lee Loughner’s statements tied to conspiracy theory – Carrie Budoff Brown – POLITICO.com
http://www.politico.com/news/s.....47329.html
JTA News Alert
January 9, 2010
Memo notes Giffords’ Judaism in motives of alleged attacker
http://www.jta.org/news/articl.....a-shooting
(JTA) — A U.S. Department of Homeland Security memo reportedly notes that Gabriel Giffords is Jewish in describing the motives of the Arizona congresswoman’s alleged assailant.
The memo, obtained by Fox News Channel, says that Jared Lee Loughner mentioned American Renaissance, an extremist anti-immigrant group, in some of his own postings.
“The group’s ideology is anti-government, anti-immigration, anti-ZOG (Zionist Occupational Government), anti-Semitic,” says the memo sent to law enforcement, which also notes that Giffords, a Democrat, was the first Jewish congresswoman from Arizona.
Loughner was arrested after Giffords and at least 16 others were shot Saturday at a meet-your-lawmaker event at a Tucson shopping mall. Six people were killed, including a 9-year-old girl and a federal judge, John Roll. Loughner was tackled and arrested. Giffords, a Democrat in her third term, remains in critical condition after being shot in the head.
Loughner, who is being held by the FBI and has been described by authorities as “unstable,” reportedly listed “Mein Kampf” and the “Communist Manifesto” as two of his favorite books on his MySpace page. Several hours before the shooting he reportedly left a “Goodbye friends” message, which also said “Please don’t be mad at me.”
Giffords was outside one of her signature “Congress at your corner” events outside a Safeway in Tucson, part of her congressional district, when the gunman approached and shot her. A Giffords staff member, Gabe Zimmerman, 30, the organizer of the event, was among the six casualties.
A suspected accomplice whose image was captured on a surveillance video camera outside the shopping center also is being sought, according to reports.
Dr. Michael Lemole a surgeon at the University Medical Center in Tucson, Ariz. said Sunday morning at a news conference that Giffords was responding to doctors’ commands. During a two-hour surgery on Saturday, doctors removed bone fragments from her brain in order to help reduce swelling. The bullet went through the left side of her head, he said.
Giffords was elected to Congress in the Democratic sweep in 2006. She made her Jewish identity part of her campaign.
“If you want something done, your best bet is to ask a Jewish woman to do it,” Giffords, a former state senator, said at the time. “Jewish women — by our tradition and by the way we were raised — have an ability to cut through all the reasons why something should, shouldn’t or can’t be done, and pull people together to be successful.”
Giffords, 40, was raised “mixed” by a Christian Scientist mother and Jewish father, but said she decided she was Jewish only following a visit to Israel in 2001. She attended services at a local Reform synagogue.
In a recent photo, she posed with the new U.S. House of Representatives speaker, Rep. John Boehner (R-Ohio), at her swearing-in with her hand on the Five Books of Moses.
Giffords fought a hard re-election battle last year against the national anti-incumbent, anti-Democratic mood. She tacked to the right of her party on immigration, saying border security was of primary consideration.
The election was called in her favor weeks after the vote.
Giffords’ office had been vandalized in March after she voted for health care reform. Friends said she had received threats for her positions on health care and for opposing her state’s new law allowing police to arrest undocumented immigrants during routine stops.
The National Jewish Democratic Council suggested that the heated rhetoric of the last year contributed to the climate that led to the attack.
“One suspect, now in custody, may be directly responsible for this crime,” the group said in a statement. “But it is fair to say — in today’s political climate, and given today’s political rhetoric — that many have contributed to the building levels of vitriol in our political discourse that have surely contributed to the atmosphere in which this event transpired.”
on January 10th, 2011 at 12:56 pm
Why does everyone got to blame it on the left or the right? Why does that even matter? Every response to this article is trying to push the blame on one party or the other. It’s pointless. Get your head out your asses and quit rooting for your political party. The bottom line is this guy is a murderer and it’s a terrible thing that this happened. Leave it at that. Quit trying to manipulate the mindless American people caught up in the left/right paradigm.
on January 10th, 2011 at 1:16 pm
Some people might be jumping the gun by blaming this on Palin. But if they are, it is only because a number of politically violent acts have been carried out by less mentally disturbed individuals in the past two or three years which DID have clear ties to people like Beck, O’ Reilly, and Michael Savage.
And as for him being antiwar, this means absolutely nothing. Because during the “root for the government or your a traitor” message prevailed among Fox drones during the Bush administration, anyone opposed to the wars in Iraq for any reason was likely to be called a liberal at some point in time. Many paleoconservatives(Buchanan’s type for example) complained that people were calling them liberals or radical leftists. Ron Paul was also supposedly opposed to the war, yet he is as right as they come on most issues.
on January 10th, 2011 at 1:18 pm
Has it occurred to anyone that Loughner’s ideas about the government “brainwashing” people through grammar may derive more from Goerge Orwell’s book “1984″, which Loughner listed on Youtube as one of his favorite books, and which develops in detail the theory of “Newspeak”? See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newspeak . Why on earth would one assume that Loughner got such ideas from some crackpot web site, instead of from a book that he states he has read?
on January 10th, 2011 at 2:01 pm
Most of you are still missing the ‘BIG PICTURE” here…the world is a CRAZY place today….and i don’t see it getting any better soon. Who is responsible…i believe we ALL are. You keep trying to point fingers every which a way…to place the blame on “this” idea…and “that” idea….right wing…left wing. No one is right or wrong on this point. There is no “rational” explanation for killing a 9 yr. old girl!!! It’s obvious he was WAY beyond “mental illness”….his anger and hatred welled up inside his self until he became “delusional” and crazy….and it finally sent him to the “dark side” as it so says in Star Wars..but yet true. He crossed into a point of “no return” my friends. Someone commented earlier about America disappearing…it’s already gone…left long time ago!!!! Here’s a question for you? Can there be a time when we have TOO many freedoms? You can be free..but there are still rules and standards to live by. And when are parents going to finally step up to the plate and take responsibility and actions for their children?????? You wonder where Jared got his ideas….maybe a piece of equipment called the computer?????? My daughter has a computer….and i monitor her actions each and every day. And she knows her limits…that we…her parents…established. Wake up and smell the TRUTH!!!! There is absolutely no place for hatred and violence in any society by any group of people or person. And thanks to the media..this type of thinking is spreading like wildfire! Push your kids away from the TV…the computer…the video games…and get them out in the fresh air….and do something with them!!! It’s that simple! Oh! and take away that cell phone/text god too!!!! And talk to your children every single day about what is right and what is wrong. Think about it…we live in a society where a young man walks up and shots a federal employee in the head…along with a 9 yr. old girl and four others dead. Yet…we can’t display the ten commandments. One of those commandments simply states “thou shall not kill”…..could that one commandment made a difference in this situation?? It could have….might have…we’ll never know. But as long as we keep letting anger….hatred…violence to dwell in this country…unfortunately this scenario will happen again. How many people will have to die before we see the “light?” one? hundred? thousands? AND it’s not just here…it’s EVERYWHERE!!!! Spend time with your kids…go to church….do a project together….go on a road trip…read the Constitution together…whatever….just keep your eyes on your kids…because they ARE keeping their eyes on YOU!!!!!
on January 10th, 2011 at 2:06 pm
Come on now, Amy Bagadonuts; you know this is hardly the blog for facts and figures. What is really important is pushing an agenda and never letting a crisis go to waste.
on January 10th, 2011 at 2:48 pm
This is my first visit to the Southern Poverty Law Center site. I’m actually surprised it is spreading hatred towards the right, by insinuating (without any actual evidence) that Loughner was motivated by the Patriot movement. Actually tea party folks, Republicans and so forth deserve their right to be heard along with Democrats, liberals, and leftists. I promise Ron Paul isn’t telling his supporters to go out and kill. I’ve seen a lot of this demonization, and consider it’s probably a good way to de-legitimize, as if anyone who has issues with the Federal reserve to be a dangerous gun weilding wacko. After reading this article, I think I’ll take any information from the Southern Poverty Law Center with a grain of salt.
on January 10th, 2011 at 3:09 pm
I was with you completely until you cited Fox News as “reporting”.
But seriously, it’s impossible to designate this as anything except a crazy. He was probably wearing a tin-foil hat to bed so the aliens couldn’t hear his thoughts.
That certainly doesn’t let the inciters off the hook. TURN OFF FOX people, or the whole country is going to need tin-foil hats before long!
on January 10th, 2011 at 3:17 pm
@ Chrisa Hickey,
We’re quick to point to mental illness because rational people don’t open fire at a crowded shopping center. Then of course, there’s the whole duck theory. Certainly Mr. Loughner walked and quacked like one; so likely it was a strong contributing factor.
Not to say he wasn’t influenced by the political atmosphere, especially in Arizona.
on January 10th, 2011 at 4:01 pm
@Chrisa Hickey
Yes, the stigmatization of those of us who have mental illnesses is a huge problem, but that doesn’t change the fact that mental illnesses are reflected by outward behavioral tendencies. In this case, erratic behavior could be a sign of erratic psychology. No generalizations were made here. I for one think that there is evidence pointing to mental illness in this case, and given that mental illness can pervade a person’s entire worldview and thought process, I don’t see any stigmatizing going on. This is a neutral account that many people will, unfortunately, be likely to see through preconception that reinforce that the societal stigma.
on January 10th, 2011 at 4:17 pm
My sincere condolences to the families and friends affected by this heinous crime. This is yet another tragedy that could have been avoided with tougher gun laws and a restriction on hate speech.
America is at the tipping point and in order to protect the sanctity of human life, we need to be proactive instead of reactive to these murder rampages. Many massacres in America are caused by nuts that are influenced by hate speech, literature, and propaganda. Then when we throw in the fact that any Joe schmoe could buy a gun, it’s a volatile mix.
The Rasmussen Reports (one of the largest and respected companies that specialize in public opinion polls) say that although 88% of Americans “strongly guard their right to free speech,” only 53% say that we should protect hate speech. The poll was conducted in June 2008.
http://www.rasmussenreports.co.....ate_speech
If there are more polls like this on a regular basis, I’m willing to bet that Americans are moving more towards banning hate speech. If you take a look at the Civil Rights Act of 1964, it was a very controversial law that was passed under a much divided America. But today, a majority of Americans look at it as a proud achievement.
Jared Lee Loughner is a sign of the excesses of gun rights and hate speech in America. In the United States, there are laws already that place restrictions on freedom of speech, such as the obscenity, indecency, & profanity laws. Look under Title 18 of the United States Code, Section 1464. Aren’t racist slurs considered obscene, indecent, and profanity? Also, the threat of imminent violence is also illegal.
http://www.fcc.gov/eb/oip/FAQ.html
http://www.ucop.edu/irc/servic.....cymemo.pdf
Most of Europe, Canada, Australia, have laws on hate speech. Only the United States has a unique but flawed First Amendment tradition. Our liberties will not be eroded if we pass a law to ban racist or violent speech based on race, color, religion, sex or national origin. We can still have legitimate criticism while avoiding the violent and racist rhetoric.
In addition, I don’t know how gun laws can be changed, but there needs to be some look into this issue as well.
on January 10th, 2011 at 4:50 pm
It’s not a good idea to mess with the 1st Amendment. It seems so simple to ban “hate speech”, but then differing groups define hate speech in different ways. The 1st Amendment is one of the few advantages the US has over the rest of the industrialized world.
on January 10th, 2011 at 4:51 pm
To Steven,
Thanks for picking up the thread. We can change gun laws in various ways: by legislation that reflects the will of the people in a state or in the nation, but that will require a change of attitude (not likely); by not changing, but enforcing restrictive gun laws on the books; by judicial re-interpretation of the Second Amendment, which constitutional scholars have pointed out means something quite different from how we currently view it.
The practical problem is that even if the Second Amendment were re-interpreted to refer to “a well-regulated militia” (currently our state National Guard organizations), there is a sizeable number of gun supporters that might consider that move as a sign that the government was evil and there could be more violent incidents.
In otherwords, what it would take is a new national consensus that owning a gun is a right for a (legal) militia member and that any other gun ownership would be subject to tight restrictions, such as mandatory background checks and registration/training rules–which we do apply to driving vehicles, including trucks and buses.
Weigh that against the life of your child and the prevalence of hate-filled individuals. It is a question every American voter needs to ask him/herself, especially members of the NRA and the judiciary.
on January 10th, 2011 at 5:19 pm
Left wing zealots desperately want to link this madman to the conservative right. But it’s just not true. His incoherant rants like “The police are illegal!” do not align with any political affiliation or preference. Republicans do not associate or support ANY fringe hate groups.. and even those groups are insisting they have never heard of the guy.
If Loughlin is a Conservative Republican, then Charles Manson is a Liberal Democrat.
Get the point? In any regard, liberals who are slinging blame, pointing fingers, and demanding that our 1st and 2nd Amendment rights be taken away because of this criminal, are part of the problem..not part of the solution.
It is sad but not suprising that left-wing zealots are scrambling to lump Loughlin in with Conservatives, and trying to use this tragedy to further their own political agenda.
Gabrielle Giffords is against gun control. She is a moderate, who used to be a Republican. The Federal Judge killed was a friend of hers..and a Conservative Republican who had stopped by to say “Hi”.
Her only mistake was not having security present at this event.
If only the 24 year old hero who restrained Loughlin until the police arrived had been closer when the shooting started. He was carrying a concealed weapon and would’ve shot Loughlin after the first bullet was fired. Then all the others would’ve been saved. When asked why he didn’t kill Loughlin, he replied “Because he was no longer a threat, we had him down. Then I didn’t have the right to kill him..so we waited for the authorities.” Law abiding citizens with concealed carry training are an asset to everyone’s safety. Cops cannot be everywhere.
It is clear that a gun in the RIGHT hands saves lives. Law abiding citizens should always have the right to bear arms.
on January 10th, 2011 at 5:27 pm
Sorry I got his name wrong… it is Loughner, not Loughlin. But I hope he is forgotten and we all forget his name. He doesn’t deserve to be remembered.
on January 10th, 2011 at 5:30 pm
We are toast. There are too many guns and too many groups out there ready to go on the warpath.
on January 10th, 2011 at 5:40 pm
“Republicans do not associate or support ANY fringe hate groups.. and even those groups are insisting they have never heard of the guy.”
This is a blatant lie. Look up the Council of Conservative Citizens some time.
That being said, just because the guy wasn’t a card-carrying Republican doesn’t mean that his ideals weren’t more to the right. Being anti-police and anti-government certainly does not make one left wing, especially when a Democrat is in the White House and virtually every Republican is screaming as though the country was invaded.
As I posted before, during the Bush “criticize the president and you’re a traitor” years, Paleo-conservatives, libertarians, and WNs were often labeled as “leftists” or “liberals” simply for expressing anti-government or anti-war ideas.
Politics is a little more complicated than some people think.
on January 10th, 2011 at 5:41 pm
Lezlie,
I agree with you, people need to turn off FOX, and other media outlets. It’s a shame that people are also not looking at the fact that people are out of work. People have more time on their hands, and the media is using this to their advantage.
I have canceled my premium channels on cable and told them that I will not pay for them to broadcast mainly Neo-Nazi/Slave type movies. I don’t watch the History channel because of all of the Nazi type programs. Yet, I’ve noticed that when I watch Olbermann and Maddow (which, btw, are the only programs I watch on 24-hour programs), there are commercials from Time Magazine to purchase Nazi documentaries.
Then on the other hand, there are reality shows that shows Americans of all ages that are arguing/fighting. All of the cable programs bring on guests from the left/right to argue points, but you never get the point because one is always louder than the other and they only get a few seconds to yell. The 24-hour cable programs put the tea party rallies as top news, in fact, what some of us thought as tasteless, the cable programs thought it is FASCINATING.
I agree with the TIN FOIL HAT comments. It’s interesting to watch some people – 2 people thinking they could be sworn into office by the television, hundreds of thousands of men (if not millions) across this nation stood at attention and thought Palin was winking at them…wow, too many to mention. For sure, if incidents like this continue, it will start to remove the doubt that some of these people may indeed come from Easter Islands. ***I don’t believe in aliens and spaceships, but, if people are convinced they are controled by television, maybe we need to see if they should be civil committments.
on January 10th, 2011 at 5:50 pm
You can be evil and perform vicious acts.
You can be evil and use politics as a veil and perform vicious acts.
Therefor, you can be evil and perform viscous acts.
Any questions,listener?
on January 10th, 2011 at 5:56 pm
I’ve got to say that given the credibility and stature of the SPLC, I am extremely disappointed in the quality of the responders to the article: arguments based on blogs and Twitter (with no reference to any legitimate sources to support claims regarding madness, insanity, nuttiness, or even what Loughner’s political orientation might be) are hardly compelling. And failing to use a real name tells me that you lack conviction in what you are saying, or that you know you are saying something that is suspect. (Is Bagadonuts even a realy name?) If you want to give Loughner the benefit of the doubt you could say that he is relatively young and it is not unusual for young people to be inconsistent in their beliefs. That’s what happens in college. However, in my opinion, his inconsistencies, and his illogical and nonsensical arguments and conclusions are more indicative of schizophrenia, which also typically begins at this age, but I admit that even this is an unsubstantiated supposition (although worth further exploration due to his behaviors in class and hsi rejection by the military). Furthermore, just because he CLAIMED to have read Marx, Orwell, and Huxley doesn’t make him a leftist. Nor does reading Mein Kampf make him a fascist. Simply having a list doesn’t prove that he actually did READ any these sources. If you saw this list and the subject was actually a dedicated and serious college student, you would conclude that he was intelligent and a well-rounded reader, and his conclusions were based on an exploration of a wide range of ideas. It is only because of the heinous act that you assume that he is crazy, a leftist, or conversely a tea bagger or Patriot. It;s possible that he is none of these. He’s might just be a hedonistic loner like the shooter at Virginia Tech who, when left to his own devices, made illogical decisions about what is wrong with the world and drew outlandish conclusions about the proper way to fix it. The far right, which is more vocal than the left or even the moderat right, offers a “reason”-able philosophy (look at his syllogisms), that demand a dramatic solution. The problem, as I see it, is that the most vocal segment of our society is currently the very far right, which preys on the fears of the elderly as well as disenfranchised young people. Young people in particular are susceptible to the rhetoric, but sometimes the elderly act too (remember the old man who bombed the synagoue a year or two ago?). The thoughts of these lone gunmen seem disjointed to us so they are assumed to be “nuts” or senile when, in fact, it is the rhetoric itself that is disjointed and contradictory. When these beliefs are espoused by people we believe or expect to be intelligent, like O’Reilly, Dobbs, etc., the average, but fearful American begins to believe the rhetoric too, as well as the “final solution” they propose. Perhaps if we put some limits on Murdock and Fox “News”, such as re-implementing the law that forbade the news media from editorializing and commenting outside of the editorial page (or sclearly identified segment), it would be easier for people to distinguish between fact and political belief. Do we really need to continue to question Obama’s nationality and religious affiliation? Plus if we had reasonable limits on free speech that includes bigotry and making thinly veiled calls for violence, people like these would not be able to scare citizens into believing such tripe nor would they be able to trick citizens into doing their dirty work for them.
on January 10th, 2011 at 6:05 pm
FWIW,
The tea party groups are trying to push back stating that because Loughner read the Communist Manifesto, this will indicate he’s left-wing. For your information (FYI), the tea party have been saying, well over a year now, that we have reached ‘so many of the 10 planks,’ from the manifesto.
BTW, people need to see that this guy was probably pushed over the edge. You look at the behavior of the right-wing, they always appear to be angry and yelling, and it appears if their followers are scared like abused children. To make this point, how many people were afraid to stand up to Limbaugh?
on January 10th, 2011 at 7:49 pm
Laura,
I take it you don’t know much about Arizona and what’s been happening there in the past few years. Republicans don’t support fringe hate groups? So, okay, I will give you this one, but give me this one, it appears they hire them and take donations from them!
The problem I have with the Republicans, is their lack of responsibility/accountability. Why is it that they love to blame everyone else for their actions and behaviors? Why is it they never apologize for their actions/behaviors, yet demand apologies from others? Why is it that they never show remorse when it is deserved? You know, people facing court trials are punished if showing lack of remorse, but, it seems if you are part of the base/elected official it’s called backbone. Why is this warped interpretation being spread throughout this country by people who is supposed to set an example for others – and I say warped because this is a “Blame Society,” blame the blacks, the Latinos, the Jews, and all other minorities for what is obvious part of the playbook. Where is the shame? It’s time to stop rewarding behavior that bring harm to others, it shouldn’t matter how much money or power you have.
on January 10th, 2011 at 8:41 pm
Martin Luther King Junior:
“The oceans of history are made turbulent by the ever-rising tides of hate. History is cluttered with the wreckage of nations and individuals that pursued that self-defeating path of hate.Love is the key to the solution of the problems of the world.”
The level of discourse in this country has become toxic, and we all need to figure out how we are going to heal the poison of hate. We can overcome this toxicity with the balm of love, patience,reason, and understanding. Vilifying the mentally ill is not the answer. Obviously we need to tend to the mentally ill, and not treat them with hate. Love is the answer, and it is much stronger than hate, and is the way to heal this nation and all nations. Love requires more strength than hate, and I believe it is in the heart of all people to love, if shown love. We need to put a damper on the toxic language in our national discourse, and it starts with each one of us.
Namaste
on January 10th, 2011 at 9:39 pm
In the following I by no means wish to disparage your argument about this young man or his leanings, you have probably done more research into the matter than I. However, I will take issue with the way that you present the issue of “grammar” and “mind control” as being uncommon.
Grammar as in making sure your transitive verbs have a predicate and correctly placing your prepositions is the lay and ultimately prescriptivist use of the word. In linguistics, grammar is technically an overarching term for the lexicon (word repertoire), morphology (construction of words) and syntax (word order) of a language. We may also include semantics (meaning of words or sentences).
I will not give a lesson here, but suffice it to say that George Lakoff, prominent cognitive linguist and devotee of the Democratic Party will certainly support the argument that the way you “frame” it (naturally using grammar, as defined above) creates a different outcome in the listener/reader.
Other linguists who would support this are Noam Chomsky and George Orwell. A cursory reading of Orwell’s “All Art is Propaganda” or focusing on his less than subtle commentary of this matter in his conlang ‘New Speak’ in “1984″ (an oft ignored part of that book!) would be in order.
For more, consider the terms “Collateral Damage”, “War on Terror” and other such nonsensical metaphors produced by the pentagon and previous administrations.
In fact, you must accept this point to assume that the rhetoric coming from Palin, Limbaugh, Beck, Hannity, Bachman and others is ginning up violent hatred on the right. How else if not through the message? Whence a message without “grammar”?
Do not confuse my statements as supporting this David Wynn Miller person, of whom I am first hearing through your report on Randi Rhodes today.
on January 10th, 2011 at 10:40 pm
In the comment by “Amy Bagadonuts” the writer argued that the right and the Tea Party should not be blamed for Loughner’s actions.
I think that’s mostly right, but there are supporters of the Tea Party, including Sarah Palin, Sharon Angle, Michelle Bachmann, and others who have used the rhetoric of violence to stir up anger and rage against their political opponents.
When Palin says, “Don’t retreat, reload”, and distributes a poster showing telescopic rifle sights with cross hairs pointing at Rep. Giffords district on a map, how are we to interpret that? When Sharon Angle said we should bring down an out of control Congress with “Second Amendment remedies”, what did that mean?
Is this ordinary political speech? Is it politics as usual in a democracy?
It is traditional in politics to use coded and veiled expressions so that the politician can deny that he said anything terrible. But the expressions “reload”, and “second amendment remedies” clearly imply “use guns”. The placing of a rifle sight over a liberal Congress person’s district clearly implies “aim at that Congress person.” Palin never said somebody should kill Gabrielle Gifford, but it’s easy to see why a deranged person with a Palinesque view of the world might find encouragement in her words to do just that.
I believe in freedom of speech. But I expect national leaders to behave better than this. What they have done is inexcusable and wrong. The fact that they have the legal right to say such things means they can’t be arrested for what they said, but it doesn’t excuse what they said.
It’s time that they stepped back from this kind of language and tried to calm their supporters down, not fire them up and then pour gasoline on them.
on January 10th, 2011 at 11:46 pm
arizona is a mess,but what can you expect when it is being run by people like russel pearce,jan brewer and all the other right wing haters.this weak minded person was basically given the green light to act out in a violent way by living in a place were poisonous,scapegoating rhetoric is spewed out on a daily basis….people like him will believe the lies.no fox news and the right wingers did not pull the trigger but they certainly provided the ammo with there hate.i believe that this is only the beginning of more violent mass murders,there are just to many right wing nuts out there.
on January 11th, 2011 at 2:50 am
btw, epic Communist lit is popular in the Michael ‘savage’ (aka the SW) wing of the right.
on January 11th, 2011 at 3:09 am
Amy, herald of ‘buttloads’ of LW sin:
“I seriously don’t know how the left has the nerve to try to blame the right and the TeaParty for this.
What they are doing is dangerous and sounds alot like they r trying to incite violence against those they are blaming.”
“Tea Party took off in 2008…”
Only in name. The T-rabble are Bush Republicans (“miss me yet”?), and have existed under other labels since the early 90′s (dittoheads, etc). Everyone knew this, but the TP came completely out of the closet only after Nov 2. Notice part of today’s RW evasion include proclamations that Loughner is “anti-religious” (usage is “not christian”). Yet until now, TP was supposedly only concerned about “libertarian” issues.
This timeline evasion scheme is fail. RW might as well try this: ‘Loughner is only 22. He would have been only a toddler when Rush Limbaugh went bigtime. Therefore Loughner cannot be RW.’
“Classmate describes shooter as “left wing pot head””
in 2006. Loughner’s yt posts are since 2006. Teens change a lot
“A buttload of blog posts, you tube videos, twitter feeds, etc. of blame from the left irresponsibly directed at Palin, Beck & the Tea Party.”
To check the herd of elephants’ buttloads of irresponsible RW blame, just google “Giffords”.
Admittedly google changes, but my first “Giffords” google yesterday brought news stories and rabid RW blogs. Further googles brought up one LW blog. and their comments are much less infested with ‘a22hat’, etc (i.e., fierily smug ‘hatespeech’ that i don’t recall exactly, but reminiscent of some 17 year old boys whose speech is half full of “f0ck1ng, bleep f0ck1ng f0ck1ng bleep f0ck1ng bleep bleep)
Interestingly, i haven’t *yet* come across RW blogs containing death threats about *this* debate. But “ThEy’re goINg to graB oUr guNs” has already begun.
on January 11th, 2011 at 3:42 am
That the media uses certain vocabulary to characterize issues and frame debates is indisputable, but this hardly justifies a claim that “the government” is using grammar to control people’s minds.
on January 11th, 2011 at 5:35 am
From his rambling YouTube videos, it seems that he synthesized, over the years, a number of ideas from extreme right-wing crackpots and hateful individuals. As many have observed, the mainstream media and right-wing politicians are pushing the line of someone who suffered from a mental illness, with no rational explanation to justify his actions. However, the videos portray a number of concepts that have been pushed by extreme right theorists, in addition to the Palin connection. It is sad that their appeals to the lowest common denominator have become so influential and sparked such acts of violence. I have been following SPLC reports for the past year or so, and thus had heard all about :David-Wynn: Miller’s “truth language”. Later, I searched for his name to learn more and found his website, full of such ramblings about government grammar control, and language. Instead of being written in printed English, they were written in cryptic “truth language”, but it was not very difficult to understand that he was talking in gibberish about government plots.
The first idea that came to me, however, was that his video’s talk of grammar was a misinterpretation of the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis, mixed in with some of David-Wynn Miller’s beliefs.
on January 11th, 2011 at 2:25 pm
Hi folks:
I was on facebook when Jared’s name was first announced on the radio. So, I immediately looked up his facebook page, which said that he was a member of the Tucson Tea Party and the National Tea Party (there was another Tea Party named, but I don’t remember what it was called.)
Instead of using a photo of himself, he used the yellow Gadsen Flag “Don’t Tread On Me” coily snake logo as his avatar. I simply cannot imagine someone created that Facebook page so fast as a “hoax,” especially since absolutely no one in the press has referred to it at all. (Hoaxes do not work unless people know about them.)
I forwarded the link to a discussion group I belong to and more than several others saw the facebook page before it was quickly removed (about 20 minutes after Myspace scrubbed his page on their site.) As a result, I have the link with the reference number in my “sent mail” folder.
If the page was really his, I assume that the Feds know this and will use it as evidence against him in the criminal case: but – if they do not, I want to make sure that the victims’ families’ lawyers subpoena facebook for that page. (Facebook has the archive. It would be stored at:
“profile.php?id=100001964854765″)
I would hope that the victims could sue those Tea Parties civilly as “hate groups,” using (as precedent) Donald v. United Klans of America, Macedonia Baptist Church v. Christian Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, and Keenan v. Aryan Nations.
It is time to get serious about the rhetoric of hate in the United States. Just my opinion as a patriotic American.
on January 11th, 2011 at 2:45 pm
RE: Reading List: THE PHANTOM TOLLBOOTH would fit his persona -lonely boy; hates his life; fantasizing (goes on a fantasy/dreamworld trip); wants more excitement in his life; individual who wants to control his own life/choices; Marvelous, easy, fast-reading book – is geared to 10-12 yr olds, but a fantasy that adults can read into and relate to the world—or escape from it!
on January 11th, 2011 at 2:47 pm
Ruslan Amirkhanov said,
“It’s not a good idea to mess with the 1st Amendment. It seems so simple to ban “hate speech”, but then differing groups define hate speech in different ways. The 1st Amendment is one of the few advantages the US has over the rest of the industrialized world.”
–
The problem is that the right wing removed the “Fairness Doctrine,” so we no longer get the truth in our “news” unless the corporations who own the MSM agree to it. We get propaganda and far too much media attention on the likes of Sarah “Reload” Palin.
Free Speech means nothing if our press is no longer “free” to report facts because the few corporations that own the press hide the truth from us. (Google “Steve Wilson,” “Jane Akre” and BGH as an example.)
on January 11th, 2011 at 3:16 pm
Prantha,
Thanks for the info. Personally, I think the Feds should take over the state of Arizona. The travel expert Frommer issued a statement a few years ago saying he did not feel safe in Arizona because of the guns… and would not recommend anyone travel to that state.
There is so much going on in that state, that I wouldn’t dare go there.
on January 11th, 2011 at 3:18 pm
jand,
All I can say is, he looks like Glenn Beck without hair! LOL!
on January 11th, 2011 at 3:32 pm
How can one link the debate regarding the Federal reserve -vs- the Gold Standard to this tragedy? Do you not realize this has been an economic debate for over 70 years? I was even introduced to this topic in Junior High School social studies class. This is not radical, favoring a gold standard is not akin to being a cold blooded murderer either. What is your point? The maniac mumbled something about the Gold standard, so what? I’m sure he ate pizza too, is eating pizza a sign of a ticking time bomb? I favor a gold standard and auditing the Federal reserve, I’m far from a hatemonger, just educated as to our history. The writer has zero credibility, it is embarrassing to try to link a common debate to a murderous Satanist. The kid was a Satanist, and probably pumped up on Anti-depressants, stop blaming political debate and economic debate on this tragedy, it is sickening
on January 11th, 2011 at 3:43 pm
This brat worshiped skulls and listened to death metal, why are you not blaming death metal and Satanism? It seems the “left” are using this to score cheap political points, it’s not working
on January 11th, 2011 at 4:58 pm
Laura,
You said that Loughner’s statement, “the police is illegal,” does not point to any specific group! Have you heard of the Sovereign Citizen type groups? Based on what I’ve read, these type groups are NOT liberals.
on January 11th, 2011 at 5:24 pm
skinnyminny i think you are probably right…i think that maybe it is time for the feds to clean house in arizona.it is now run like a brutal third world government imposing laws straight out of the middle ages.jan brewer is nothing but a puppet and the far right/neo nazi vermin that have taken over the government there are the ones pulling her strings….arizona will become a breeding ground for mass murderers like loughner being egged on by all the government sanctioned rhetoric and just think many on the right want this mess exported to other states.
on January 11th, 2011 at 6:21 pm
Jared,
Are you serious? Again, I take it you have no clue about Arizona! Blaming skulls/satanism as not right-wing, perhaps you haven’t heard of some of the rumors in Arizona – Nazis involved in satanism.
BTW, no one has mentioned Beck’s episode on FOX, showing him at a table drinking wine with a blowup doll that was described as Nancy Pelosi, and that instead of wine it was poison. It is also not being reported due to the incident in Tucson, that Democrats across this country as still receiving suspicious packages and threats.
Bagadonuts,
I am assuming this is Bag of Donuts, it doesn’t matter how much more you have. Believe me, I have a lot more than you. But, because anyone who talks about the right or their fringe groups tend to get threats lately, I prefer to not engage in your childlike tactics. Childlike, because, I remember as a kid, I did it – “well, he did this…” but it didn’t work. This is not about who can show the most damaging evidence. This is not about Obama. This is about how the right tends to push people over the edge then leave them out to dry.
on January 11th, 2011 at 6:47 pm
Ruben,
Jeb Bush is urging the GOP to court Hispanics. Can you believe these people? They have talked about deportations, anchor babies, English being the predominant language (never mind that Puerto Rico is Spanish speaking islands), having Neo-Nazis hold anti-immigration rallies/marches…and now they want Hispanics to vote for them! Spread the word, I will do as much here is Califas – I think they believe we have forgotten and have short-memories.
on January 11th, 2011 at 7:24 pm
There sure are a bunch of lift wing idiots that will believe any crap you post here.
The guys favorite books included the communist manifesto and and Mien Kampf. He was a liberal. He was clearly deranged and clearly one of your own dope smoking left wing illiterate nutjobs. But that is difficult to explain to fellow nutjobs,
Somehow, some way you can ignore the facts and blame the teaparties. Is it any wonder there is such a climate in this country?
on January 12th, 2011 at 12:55 am
He also sounded as if some of his rhetoric (in the flag burning video) came from David Icke, particularly when he speaks of a scaled bird. Icke is most known as a Conspiracy Theorist who believes in the Illuminati stuff, NWO, and that reptiles that no one can see govern the earth. This last part strikes me. Also, the allusion to a “new bird on my right shoulder” — which is tied into his earlier videos and seems to continue his currency-knowledge-via-the-Internet symbology — is the supposed “key” to understanding his ideology. Of course, the notion of a right wing comes to mind at once. I’m inclined to agree with your analysis in full, and also to suggest that it’s more coherent than people acknowledge. He seems to be drawing from a lot of pop cultural underground notions really endemic to counterculture in the West Coast, many of which do wind up seeming contrary because they are primarily bound up in reactionary, anti-authoritarian views. I’d previously volunteered in a radical book library/infospace and recognize which views he does not hold, which are far Leftist. He does not show any evidence of the political concerns of a Communist, a Maoist, a typical Anarchist, an Anarcho-Syndicalist, an Anarcho-Socialist, a Socialist, and certainly not those of most Democrats, although he may have previously been a Democrat when in his right mind. I have heard some radical Libertarians speak about his concerns. They also seem to engage more in Conspiracy Theory issues compared with the previously mentioned ideological groups, who generally eschew Conspiracy Theories, with the exception perhaps of some Green Party types. Far Leftists of any political stripe in memory dislike Ayn Rand and tend to view the Constitution with very little interest. The Communist Manifesto, however, was probably something he became interested in through his Political Science course, where Marx would have been a mainstay in all likelihood. So crossover there is of no surprise to me. But aside from that At any rate, I wanted to mention the Icke issue regarding the bird. The bird has barely been mentioned. Nor has his disregard for NASA, as well as his general interest in aliens. Again, I think his ideology is more coherent than many realize, because he’s drawing from a very fringe set of ideas that are outside of mainstream binary politics, yet implicitly skew toward the Right-Libertarian spectrum.
As a final note, that he refers to the viewers of his youtube videos as “listener” sounds like he’s picking up on radio-speak. I actually wondered if his someone around him was listening to a lot of talk radio which could have simply been integrated in his vernacular. It’s also possible that he acquired some of his political views from movies, since he was obsessed with these. Some of the lucid dreaming has been related to Donnie Darko and A Scanner Darkly. It also sounds a lot like Fight Club to me.
As a final, final note, flag burning stopped being a “Left” preoccupation in the early 1980′s or so, when punk rock peaked. Since then, I’ve never seen it. However, he seems to view himself as a super-Patriot in that he requests that Youtube video be watched in reverse, which takes the burnt flag and makes it whole again. Many Libertarians are also against the war. And bands are silly things to gauge ideology by. Plus, his are all over the board. Slipknot and Drowning Pool made me initially think he was a “jock.” Sorry to break it to the world, but those bands aren’t liked by radical Leftists to my knowledge. Anti-Flag, sure. Mars Volta. Who doesn’t like Mars Volta?
I don’t believe he had any formal affiliations with hate groups, but do see how he was influenced by some of their rhetoric. It would have surrounded him in Arizona. He shows no evidence to me of any racism, for what it’s worth, but it’s hard to know given his reclusiveness.
He had been reported as taking “drugs” and “clinching his fists” some time ago by a friend… Zach. My read there is that he may have been on methamphetamine or even LSD, PCP, or E, because either would have that side effect. And either could cause permanent damage in the long term. I’ve seen people with major residual damage from all. Many are crazy and seem schizophrenic even after the drug is no longer being taken (particular with LSD and PCP, and possibly E from what I’ve heard). Some are semi-functional but may remain paranoid, withdrawn, and depressed.
on January 12th, 2011 at 7:59 am
well, most of your story is right except that the Federal Reserve IS a private entity, NOT a government entity. Do your research………..otherwise, well written.
on January 12th, 2011 at 8:38 am
Since we now know more about Loughner–including the fact that he had been stalking Giffords since 2007 based on a perceived PERSONAL affont, I think you should feel embarrassed at having tried so hard to mold this tragedy into a political bonus for the left. Shame on you!
To play your game, I guess I’d say you’re following Obama’s advice to “bring a gun” to the fight if the right brings a knife. Or perhaps you are “punching back twice as hard”. Yeah, violent rhetoric causes all kinds of horrors….
Pathetic
on January 12th, 2011 at 9:16 am
Who is Jared Lee Loughner?
The vapid conjecture & falsehoods here clearly tell us what you HOPED he was … so that you could hate him all the more.
on January 12th, 2011 at 10:37 am
The SPLC has an agenda, and I don’t trust ANY supposed “journalists” with agendas, you shouldn’t either. This is willful ignorance and it needs to stop. The guy was incapable of having any logical political views whatsoever. He’s so out there that his professor even thought he may have had Tourette’s syndrome. Read for yourself people, stop trusting just “anyone” because you know you’re going to “agree” with them. Are you that afraid of your own beliefs shifting a bit? …..
on January 12th, 2011 at 10:43 am
When TPE III came to Syracuse, NY, there were “Second American Revolution” flags all over Clinton Square. Along with the Obama as The Joker signs and what not. The S.A.R. flags were Old Glory with a gold roman numeral 2 in a gold circle in the middle. Anyone see that?
on January 12th, 2011 at 10:48 am
Le Mur:
Loughner was the unstable element upon which Palin, Limbaugh, Beck & Co. carelessly threw their burning matches and sparklers on like confetti.
on January 12th, 2011 at 11:37 am
Does it really matter that the kid read conspiracy writers like David Icke (who is fascinating if you bothered to read him)? It is evident that the psuedo-left such as SPLC, are using this as an opportunity to demonize those who have different views and do not trust the government. The psuedo-left did not trust the government for 8 years when the neo-liberal (identical to Clinton and Obama) Bush was president. Now a “D” is in charge and mysteriously the “left” is all trusting the government and trying to demonize everyone from Palin (neo-liberal, no different than Obama, but has a an “R” next to her name), Glen Beck (entertainer), Rush Limbaugh (moronic main stream Republican hack), David Icke (researcher on clandestine groups such as the Bilderberg group), Alex Jones (libertarian radio host and who’s sites infowars and prisonplanet are more widely read than most psudeo liberal blogs such as this and Think Progress), Ron Paul (traditional anti-war conservative) and basically anyone who is not a card carrying main stream Obama supporter.
When an unstable person is fed a lot of information, the results can be deadly, much as when a sexual deviant watches pornography all day ( most rapists and serial killers have been known to watch endless streams of pornography), the end result are violent sex crimes.
I don’t see the left calling for a ban on pornography, after crimes are comitted, yet hours after the shooting, the left has bee calling for bills to be written to stop “political hate speech”, in other words use this opportunity to shut down both main stream hacks like Palin and Limbaugh, and people who prvide a viewpoint that is not so much left or right (AlexJones,Paul, Icke)…. The DNC, corporatist-left is losing their mind, because they lost their base when Obama started bailing out billionaire bankers, and writing bills which do nothing but make monopolies stronger, the Health Care Bill is nothing but an insurance company bailout (most objective democrats know this), The Food safety act, was designed to make Monstanto stronger and stomp out small food producers(the thinking left and right know this). The mainstream DNC corporatist left is infuruated that people are no longer playing the “D” good, “R” bad game and people like Alex Jones are taken more seriously every single day, hence they want to use this opportunirty to wipe out mainstream political opposition (Palin and dittoheads) and the growing truther/libertarian movement (Icke, Paul, Jesse Ventura, Alex Jones).. It is not 2008 anymore, nobody trusts the corporatist Obama and his monopoly banker-Wall Street agenda… Everyday thousands more are ignoring DNC hacks like Olberman and the Obama crowd, they are losing their mind, and will use any opportutinty to silence opposition by drawing links to their political opposition andf this tragedy.
and SPLC is obviously part of the banking cabal, as this writer, immedaty tried to tie those who are against the Federal Reserve to being crazy… People on the left and right are interested in an audit of the private bank who controls our economy :The federal reserve… Sending Obama to wave fingers at Wall Street is no longer working, we all know he is a Wall Street and banking industry president. So frustrating for the corporatist-”change” crowd, when the public wakes up and rejects the false reality you create
on January 12th, 2011 at 12:47 pm
“The guys favorite books included the communist manifesto and and Mien Kampf. He was a liberal. He was clearly deranged and clearly one of your own dope smoking left wing illiterate nutjobs. But that is difficult to explain to fellow nutjobs, ”
Hold on a sec Cowboy…was he just deranged or was he really a liberal? Oh and we know how much liberals just LOOOOVE Mein Kampf and The Communist Manifesto. That was brilliant. I can’t believe you actually typed that and posted that on a public forum. In case you hadn’t heard, his OTHER favorite books were Animal Farm, 1984, To Kill a Mockingbird, and supposedly he liked Ayn Rand as well.
Clearly his tastes were eclectic, to say the least. And yet in your boundless ignorance, you proclaim him a liberal. Brilliant.
Somehow, some way you can ignore the facts and blame the teaparties. Is it any wonder there is such a climate in this country?”
on January 12th, 2011 at 12:48 pm
Paxhefsky, I don’t see how you could pretend to be a leftist when you support right-wing populist nutcases like Alex Jones. Alex Jones is making money off gullible people who want to feel like they really know what’s going on.
on January 12th, 2011 at 12:58 pm
I’m not a leftist, but I respect REAL LEFTISTS, I’m a libertarian and Alex Jones is an interesting guy, who actually predicted 9-11 in July of 2001, and stated “the government will blame Al Queda”. Sure Jones is making a ton of money, so are the people who feed you DNC talk points, your heros Ed Schultz, Rachel Maddow, Olberman, Rand Rhodes, Tom Hartman, all making money posing as fake leftists, who are really DNC hacks.
Sorry, anyone who calls for censorship of political speech is not a leftist bt rather a DNC hack, desperate to shut down opposition
The fake-left has been pushing for censorship since the day Obama became president. The fake-left lost their base, lost the independents and have nothing left to do but censor, and demonize all with different views. Why?
Obama has been exposed as a Wall Street Bankster, and most who voted for him get it. It’s not the tea parry, it’s not talk radio, it’s the Democratic party, lying to their base.
As a libertarian I reject monopoly capitalism, the Dems are no differen than the GOP, both prop up monopolies and the banking business. All the screaming about Palin in the world will not stop America from rejecting Goldman-Obama-Sachs
on January 12th, 2011 at 2:01 pm
“I’m not a leftist, but I respect REAL LEFTISTS, I’m a libertarian and Alex Jones is an interesting guy, who actually predicted 9-11 in July of 2001, and stated “the government will blame Al Queda”.
Ok I got some bad news for you. I don’t think you know what a “real leftist is”. As for Alex Jones’ “prediction”, I’d like to see it, verbatim. See just recently I was reading this graphic novel written before the first WTC bombing and it “predicted” that the WTC would be destroyed completely.
“Sure Jones is making a ton of money, so are the people who feed you DNC talk points, your heros Ed Schultz, Rachel Maddow, Olberman, Rand Rhodes, Tom Hartman, all making money posing as fake leftists, who are really DNC hacks.”
The nice thing about “DNC hacks” is that for all their faults, they do actually check their facts from time to time. Alex Jones just says whatever the hell comes into his Tourette’s adled mind at the moment. People like him have been “predicting” martial law, total financial collapse, and a world government for in some cases 30 years or more. Jones doesn’t even have a clue as to how the Federal Reserve works. It’s not hard to look something like that up. And if Jones’ has some secret source as to how the Fed “really” works, then it’s on him to explain just how the hell he got his hands on it.
on January 12th, 2011 at 2:09 pm
Nothing could be clearer that loughner is a wack job and psycho. However to leave it at that ignores the question of who or what lit the fuse. From his videos, writings, and testimonies of people who knew him there is a description of someone who is anti-authoritian, hyper-constitutional, obsessed with mind control and language, anti-abortion, a gold bug, & influenced by the writings of strong figures like ayn rand and hitler. A friend describes him as a libertarian who was socially liberal. Some reports mention a racist connection (still unverified), others mention the “communist manifesto” as one of his favorite books (not really a book) – which is about the only thing “leftist” in his whole profile. So there are the dots to connect.
on January 12th, 2011 at 2:17 pm
I met alex jones once and found him to be full of shit… imho
on January 12th, 2011 at 2:23 pm
For God’s sake david icke believes jews are satanic space beings !@#$
on January 12th, 2011 at 2:30 pm
skulls and satanism are very much part of the racist right… look @ the imagery @ stormfront and vnn —
on January 12th, 2011 at 2:57 pm
Silly rightwinger — Obama was quoting a line from “the untouchables” … far from embracing he was ridiculing that kind of mentality
on January 12th, 2011 at 3:24 pm
Silly rightwinger… kos use of “target” and “bullseye” don’t riff off palin rhetoric in either tone or venom. palin rhetoric was red hot issue in giffords election… sorry, nice try
on January 12th, 2011 at 3:51 pm
gbuddha2012,
thanks for your comments about skulls and satanism. I think the problem here is because some of the people from the right leaves, what some would say, confusing signs behind, it’s hard to tell.
It’s not hard to tell. Mr. Stack from Dallas did the same thing, leaving conflicting telltale signs. Yet, if you look at how some of the rightwingers come here and post name-calling, derogatory comments at us, it’s no wonder they leave signs like this. They also leave behind signs that confuse SOME people, because they do read, study, and harass, and in some cases stalk the left.
on January 12th, 2011 at 4:17 pm
Jared Paxhefsky,
I’ve noticed this – Jared Evan Pachefsky and now there’s Jared Paxhefsky.
At any rate, some of us on the left know what’s up. This is a complete repeat of Hubert H. Humphrey. Oh, btw, some of us are already up on it and showing the dvd “Hubert H. Humphrey The Art of Possible,” at little gatherings.
We know that is why the right is banking on winning the 2012 election. Everything that is happening now (was part of Humphrey losing to Nixon), the war, demonizing minorities, hunger/poverty/unemployment, protesters beaten/arrested by police, elected officials/candidates threatened and killed, manipulating voters – wearing down democratic voters, GOP telling businesses that they can deny services to blacks because it would violate private property rights (this was Thurmon then, but looks like Rand Paul now)… Yes, Humphrey was brilliant and famous for legislation for civil rights, for that, he is one of my heros.
on January 12th, 2011 at 4:22 pm
In another life i was a libertarian and i can tell you that i knew at least one prominent libertarian (name witheld) who studied mein kampf for tactics and style as much as he studied rand or murray rothbard… enough said
on January 12th, 2011 at 4:28 pm
“Sarah Palin’s got me in her crosshairs” — gabby giffords
on January 12th, 2011 at 4:33 pm
skinnyminny,
i’ve had my own personal confrontations with racists and the far right over the years… i know where you’re coming from
on January 12th, 2011 at 4:49 pm
Limbo cheese and Inanity are in complete denial. Loughner was NOT living in a vacuum.
on January 12th, 2011 at 6:33 pm
Jared Loughner is indeed a complete nutter. That alone does not explain what he did. As some have correctly pointed out, mental illness is more likely to make one a victim than a violent criminal. For instance, people with major depression (like me) are far more likely to hurt themselves than to hurt someone else.
However, it is also true that *certain types* of mental illness do, indeed, predispose one to violent acts. Jared wasn’t just a nutter, he was a violent, paranoid delusional nutter. That doesn’t excuse what he did; we may realize why rabid dogs are dangerous, but we still don’t tolerate them.
on January 12th, 2011 at 7:42 pm
cowboyjim,
I take it from your comments you’re not a rhinestone cowboy! LOL!
Let’s see here! Do you even recognize the anger that is being exhibited here towards the left?
Let’s try it this way. Let’s examine this in a simple way. Do you notice how almost every picture or broadcast of the right – they always have a frown/growl look on their face. They tend to smile when they have won, or they are doing something to bring harm to people. With the left, the smile when then have won, but also when they have done something good for the people.
And you know what, I rather have potsmoking people that know how to chill, than people who obviously have to take but haven’t taken some sort of substance to calm their nerves/control their behavior. No insults here, just trying to keep it real!
on January 12th, 2011 at 7:58 pm
To be honest even I think that the Palin-Loughner link is rather ridiculous, and it is precisely that which makes it all the more suspicious that this kind of talk and uproar in the mainstream (supposedly librul) media didn’t take place half-a-dozen times in the past two years on any of the far more credible examples of right wing violence. For example, the guy who wanted to shoot up a Tides Foundation office and claimed Glenn Beck was his “teacher”(calling Beck a “teacher” seems to be a hallmark of many morons). There’s a solid link yet….nothing.
Now we don’t even know if this guy even saw that Palin poster, or if he listened to those pundits regularly(as a conspiracy devotee, he probably spent most of his time listening and reading material from other conspiracy nuts). It’s almost as if the media is deliberately crying “wolf” on this tenuous link, so as to discredit the whole idea.
on January 13th, 2011 at 10:50 am
Rightwing media is funded by about 1-2 billion dollars a year… murdoch, koch’s bros, wall street, etc. People like loughner become witting and unwitting shock troops for their agenda.
on January 13th, 2011 at 11:04 am
Question? If FOX NEWS keeps on paying Palin, Beck, and the others hundreds of millions of dollars knowing full well that their speech has been directly or indirectly linked to violence, then what liability do they have for any future acts that their employees have causality to. This is not a matter of free speech – this is a matter of paid for speech that leads to violence. My mother always told me that if I break something, I’ve gotta pay for it.
on January 13th, 2011 at 11:07 am
you know it will be hard to ever find out what drove this person to commit the crimes he did,but you cannot ignore the fact that the poisonous atmosphere that this person was living in was not the final straw that drove him over the edge….if you live in a negative environment you cannot expect positive things to happen….that’s just the bottom line.hate is a powerful emotion that can consume even the most educated let alone a deranged person….with the oppressive laws that the present government in arizona has chosen to enact you cannot expect anything productive in terms of human relations to happen in that state…..it will continue to be a breeding ground of bad karma.
on January 13th, 2011 at 12:20 pm
Remember that anti-abortion website that targeted clinics?
It was taken off the Internet after some whacko followed up on their suggestions and murdered a doctor.
This is the same sort of thing with the AZ shooter.
When Palin said “Don’t regroup…reload”, most people didn’t take her literally.
This whacko did.
on January 13th, 2011 at 12:22 pm
I love how the Right are trying to distance themselves from this guy, after their side has spewed hate speech on TV and radio for close to two decades.
The shooter was a registered Republican.
on January 13th, 2011 at 12:31 pm
this man had received a diagnosis of “paranoid schizophrenia” – was kicked out of college for disturbing behavior, and then taken home to his parents – apparently, he did not get help – this is a common phenomenon –
mental health services are not adequate, throughout the US, and this is the result.
really tired of the “nut job” and “wacko” terms employed even on MSNBC – where Mark sometimes speaks -
NAMI and other groups are remarkably silent – they are corporate run groups as well – not the ‘advocates’ they purport to be – where is there outrage?
I have been on the Board of several mental health organizations, most of them national, and it is a shame how weak and cowardly they are when tragedies strike -
the University President who spoke last night in Tucson before Pres. Obama, should, I believe, be held to account for his failure to make sure the young man got help – kicking him out of school did not absolve him of responsibility to the community. We see the results.
As he was obviously a threat to others, and possibly himself, the police, his parents, the school, et als, should have gotten him involuntarily committed for at least a few days – ignoring these problems don’t make them go away.
on January 13th, 2011 at 12:36 pm
have you considered the ranting writings and compair with the Williams Brothers from Shasta County. They too were extreem right wing with very odd writings.
on January 13th, 2011 at 12:40 pm
Now that the coverup has started to mask the political correctness groups. We are in a pickle. When an unstable individual is allowed to be egnored when so much evidence was available and no official reports were made to the authorities to get this individual the help he needed, the results of this situation materialized. Now the blame game begins. Too many have jumped to conclusions which can not be backed up with FACTS. This is a classic case in psychology studies. Too bad the people with whom he came in contact did NOTHING !!!!! Because they did not want to get involved. Personal profile comes to mind. So sad it has come to this when he has been right in our face.
May GOD help us that this never happens again. But others are in the shadows just waiting to make their move when the time is right and we lest expect it. He had a PLAN to do harm.
on January 13th, 2011 at 12:43 pm
gbuddha2012 you are exactly right!..it’s bad enough that they are rabble rousing with there speech but they are getting paid for it!…you can bet the rhetoric coming from fox and the right is not gonna stop anytime some….they are making too much money from it.and one other thing the owner of fox is from australia which makes him a immigrant/foreigner to this land and look how much division he has created in this country.isn’t his news station the ones crying the loudest to deport immigrants that are negative influences to our country.if murdoch were just your typical immigrant and he be out on the street corner preaching the” crosshairs on your political opponent and be armed and dangerous” rhetoric that he allows on his station he would been deported a long time ago as a threat to this nation.with his billions he has chosen to tear the country apart from within.
on January 13th, 2011 at 12:48 pm
And it seems to be ignored that he also chose a Jewish person to assassinate. His shaved head may only be a “cleansing” in his mind or it could be a sympathetic gesture to skinheads. There are certainly many deranged people who believe Jews control the world.
Perhaps the opportunity to take out a Liberal Government official, who was also Jewish, and her supporters, was the perfect target for the statement he was trying to make.
on January 13th, 2011 at 12:51 pm
Whether or not Jared Loughner is mentally/emotionally unstable will be decided by the courts (forensic medicine). The main question must be…How did we get to this point in time where violence against anyone else becomes a statement or accepted by any group?
It is time to seriously address the issues that are confronting many people in this nation without trying to over analyze, or paper over, acts of violence.
Is reading how corporate executives afford themselves millions of dollars in yearly bonuses while veterans go homeless fueling a politically motivated “Patriot” ideology. Is the spilling over of the drug wars south of our border challenging many who live and work in the Arizona communities to seek quick fixes against the violence of drug cartels. Questions… Questions… ? ? ?
It is time for an open congressional hearing to be aired on national television regarding people who feel threatened. We should not sweep the Jared Loughner’s of the world under the rug or make them celebrities, or hero’s, for any movement that threatens our nation. We are an open society that protects freedom of speech and all other First Amendment rights. U.S. Congresswoman Giffords was expressing her right to be heard and the right of the people to listen and interact.
There should be no place for anyone to ever threaten anyone else from speaking. As New York City Mayor Fiorello LaGuardia once stated, “we must let these rats speak” when confronted in the 1930′s with a Nazi movement scheduled to rally in New York’s Madison Square Garden. We cannot interfere with the freedoms we all enjoy, even when we disagree. But, there should be no room for anyone to interfere with those freedoms by promoting or threatening violence against anyone else.
Let’s end the hatred and violence. Let the televised congressional hearings begin…ASAP.
on January 13th, 2011 at 12:54 pm
Why would one listen to the radio or watch any tv program which one clames they preach love, hate and discontent; if one is offended at what they see, hear, or watch. Turn it off or go to another frequency.
Too many are offended at the drop of the hat. Getting up in the morning before they have their first cup of coffee. Driving to work. Dealing with the public.
Folks, it is not going to get any better. More trouble is on the horizon because of the uncertainty in everyday live to too many. When pushing one into a corner, one has three choices.
on January 13th, 2011 at 12:54 pm
You sure bent all the corners and rounded all the edges to reach out miles to paste this screwball as a right winger. In your views Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid better watch their backs.
on January 13th, 2011 at 1:06 pm
Everything you’ve said or pointed out about Jared Loughner, and the kinds of activists you think he was listening to and then emulating, proves that these so-called Ultra-Right-Wingers are really just the opposite of what these people who listen to them think they are; and that these Ultra-Right Wingers are really just they very same Totalitarians who they say they despise (“Truth-Language” – Really! Obviously “1984″ was NOT on either of these ignorant, racist dolts reading lists!).
Like Hitler, in his “Beer Hall Coup”, they are manipulating the kinds of ignorant, listless, jobless, hopeless parts of our society – by exploiting their ignorance, and inflaming their resentments – so that they will march blindly into their own Complete Politcal Enslavement; all of it in “The Name of Liberty” and “The Greater Good of Our Beloved Motherland”…..when, in fact, they are largely a bunch of people who couldn’t win an election; and not because they wouldn’t “play ball” with the local or national fascist who fund things like campaigns, but because they scared people away with their ignorance and/or radicalism and/or because they’re an obvious Nut-Job; and they resent that – so they go on the radio, write a book, and present themselves and their whack-job story and/or ideas to people who’re too ignorant of History (which DOES repeat itself – and you can only prepare for that, by knowing it) to see through to what these kinds really are.
If these people are “Real Americans” – then have them tell me THIS: Why did Ben Franklin not only highly approve of – but also personally print counterproofed notes of – Fiat Money?!?
Yes, Puppies, A “Founding Father” wanted that.
Oh – and stop wearing MY Flag! That “Don’t Tread On Me” Flag ) I made that in the second grade; and it pisses me off to see such a bunch of dolts acting like not paying ANY taxes is what thats all about.
Another “Founding Father”, George Washington, should’a already set you straight on that – if you’d actually Read a Whole Book about Him, and weren’t really all just ignorant cranks – when he Crushed The Whiskey Rebellion; and crushed it with Troops he Personally Mustered!
on January 13th, 2011 at 1:14 pm
How is this situation different in essence than the Tiller murder. O’Reilly of Fox Entertainment called him a “baby killer” and that he should die. Fruitcake went out and killed the doctor.
That kind of instigation coupled with an unstable viewer leads to the same kind of result – In one case the Tiller murder, in the other the attempted murder of Gabrielle Giffords.
on January 13th, 2011 at 1:41 pm
I am reading the comments and the point that the vast majority of individuals with mental illness are not a threat and that quite frankly they are much more likely to be the victim of violent crime is well taken. That being said, the fact that this individual was mentally unstable and committed a horribly violent act is in no way a blanket statement about mentally ill individuals in general. Additionally, when the author makes comments like David Wayne Miller being “mad as a hatter” I don’t think he was implying legitimate mental illness so much as the fact that the guy is just a “wacko” in his incoherent political beliefs. It is hardly necessary for mental health advocates to chastise the author for his alleged insensitivities to the mentally ill. Let’s not have our own political correctness run amock here.
on January 13th, 2011 at 1:48 pm
There are a lot of people upset about the connection between mental illness and actions such Jared loughner. I have found a compelling case that relates violent, hateful, mass murderer behavior to people who actually have damage to the frontal lobe portion of their brains. As well as abuse. Search Jonathan pincus and murderer and you can read more about his studies. So mental illness isn’t a sign someone could be violent, but brain damage to a part that controls our decision-making process is. So, we can understand some people literally can’t control their actions the way others do. Unfortunately, this means they can be heavily influenced by their environment and until we can repair brain damage, rehabilitation is an unreliable option.
on January 13th, 2011 at 2:40 pm
ruben you are exactly right… murdoch should be deported just as much as every fire breathing imam. hate should not have a litmus test
on January 13th, 2011 at 2:42 pm
SPLC should explore civil action against FOX
on January 13th, 2011 at 4:46 pm
gbudda2012,
This is what I have a hard time understanding! Some of the right-wingers came here hurling insults at us, and are trying to defend Sarah.
LOL! Can you believe this! I remember around the time of the campaigns, her supporters were saying,”let Sarah be Sarah.” It was Sarah herself, who said she wanted to ‘go rogue.’ It was Sarah herself who write a book called ‘going rogue.’ It tickles me that a person that identifies him/herself as being rogue can’t try to get themselves out of sticky situations. Sarah loves attention on her terms. And with that, I say, ‘you go girl!’
As far as I’m concerned, the media or her handlers can remove the lipsick and put a mustache on her, and I still won’t have a favorable impression of her. As a person from the ‘hood (that’s right, I’m a hoodrat), that doesn’t sit well with people to say you are rogue, especially when we have had our share of rogue cops. Notice how you’ve heard people from the ‘hood refer to Hillary in terms of endearment, like, ‘Oh, Hillary, that’s my girl!’
With Palin, she has turned people off in the ‘hood. She have reminded minorities of what they face and have faced on the job for years – she has belittled the entire Obama family, and for that dis, I can never find myself to vote for her.
And while we have been on the subject of mental illness – did you see the self-absorbed apology that backfired. I laughed, because it was all about ‘me, myself, and I,’ and blame, blame, blame. Maybe Sarah should have enlightened the atmosphere by having background music of the singer Rockwell – remember that song, “I always feel that someone is watching me, can’t have no privacy..”
on January 13th, 2011 at 4:54 pm
gbuddha2012…..good point….can anyone say that the hate rhetoric that has been coming from fox and the right these past few years especially with the emergence of palin is not the same as the rhetoric of a radical islamic imam.after all they are both right wing factions of there societies.in the end it will cause the same damage and its always the innocent that are the victims.
on January 13th, 2011 at 4:57 pm
Mark, your analysis was right on target, and as I always say again and again – Thank goodness for the SPLC!!!!
on January 13th, 2011 at 5:10 pm
I read a lot of the comments above but far from all. It seems that noone has brought up that the shooter had been without a job for half a year, applied to 60+ jobs, and not even got an interview. He had also been fired from several jobs and had had no success in school or with girls. This guy was rejected, rejected, rejected. Not an attractive 22-year old in any way, it seems. But it seemed he tried the usual for a young man trying to establish himself as an adult and failed badly. In another time or place he would have joined an organisation with a program to improve the lot of people like him. Of course, anyone who walks into a crowd and kills people is “crazy”, but I don’t think it will get us anywhere to debate what kind of craziness he was suffering from.
on January 13th, 2011 at 7:19 pm
Ben Svenson,
I believe that’s why it points back to rightwing politics. People in the minority community – have you seen the unemployment among blacks? Did you see the faces of the Hurricane Katrina victims? I haven’t seen any blacks go out and target elected officials! Believe me, if this were the case, it would be all over the news. That’s the only time the media find blacks (like me) worthy of news time, either to demean us or try to show how dangerous we could be. I personally think the reason why (this is not intended to an insult) is that we don’t brag and fool ourselves that we are superior to any and everyone.
As far as him not having a girlfriend, men like this normally get women from different countries – heard of mailorder brides?
Don’t construe my comments as being desensitized. As a person living in the ‘hood, this is nothing new. Politics, yes politics usually hit our neighborhoods first – we deal with people that have no healthcare, people released from prison, people that society doesn’t care about because of social standing/class.
Back to politics again, Mr. Boehner, not appearing at the memorial! Yeah, yeah, the rightwingers say schedule conflict. Personally, I think if the entertainers can have pretaped speeches/messages, why couldn’t Boehner had done this for his pre-engagement? Singers/Actors personally don’t like to miss appearing at an awards show when they are nominated or win an award, but they do!
on January 14th, 2011 at 2:42 am
Well, what a rash of comments. Someone mentioned polls taken and used the name of Rasmussen in a positive light. Nothing is further from the truth, for he has been discredited time and again for his inaccurate and gamed polling results.
If rhetoric is to be connected to this tragedy, it is right wing rhetoric that is suspect. Daily one hears alternately FOX noise spouting the killing of Assange, Obama, Michael Moore, Nancy Pelosi, and others. The violent imagery and fantasies of gun violence is the agenda for the right wing and FOX noise machine. Allen West wants lawmakers “afraid to come out of their house,” Bachmann wants citizens “armed and dangerous,” and Broder says that violent revolution was proscribed by the Founding Fathers and should on the table and ready to be engaged in if the Democrats and the Obama administration continues its socialist policies and its tyranny against the “American people.” I guess Broder means against the conservatives, its not exactly clear that he’s speaking about a duly elected President and Democratic legislators who were chosen by the people to represent them but Broder thinks the Dems and Obama have targeted conservatives and have taken away their liberties and freedoms. Of course, that is the right wing line, victims always.
I do not hear of any liberals who advocate using guns to get elected. “If votes don’t work, then bullets will.” So says Allen West’s “was gonna be” staffer. The right wing is a source of misinformation and if you want proof go to Media Matters and Factcheck and Politifact and Right Wing Watch, the facts are all there to see.
Facts are neither left nor right, but are simply based on what is true, or what is reality. The Right wing and the Republicans are consistently not dedicated to objective facts(they make stuff up!!).
No one on the left politically is adept at violent imagery nor do they engage in demonizing the right, but they will call out for what is factual, they do not lie, usually.
on January 14th, 2011 at 8:02 am
My take on Jesus and what he stood for:
It is far better to be the victim of murder than to be the perpetrator. It is far better to forgive than to burn with hate.
The challenge is mine — and I challenge anyone who reads this — to maintain eye contact with your conservative neighbor, and your right-wing relatives. Keep greeting them with a smile, and keep talking politics and issues… without letting differences dominate your relationship. Ours is a dangerous country… but as long as you keep treating your neighbor as a fellow thinking, feeling human being (with dignity and respect) there’s still hope for you.
Please DO NOT write anyone off as irrelevant or unworthy of your respect, just because their world-view is not compatible with yours.
on January 14th, 2011 at 8:06 am
The evil part of all this is Loughner now has the unrestrained power of the world media to distribute whatever he says to further manipulate the reactionary actions of the left and right.
on January 14th, 2011 at 10:35 am
We should definitely get rid of the outdated 1st amendment to stifle those who disagree with us. You, know, so we can be like China, Russia, Cuba, etc. Let tyranny reign. There are so many outdated things in the U.S. constitution that we should just scrap the whole thing, especially the Bill of Rights. We could change things to be more like Russia, who actually has “separation of church and state” written into their constitution. Tolerate only those who agree with you – make everyone else uncomfortable and even afraid to speak their minds. Tolerance is not liberty. Check out the history of “tolerance.”
on January 14th, 2011 at 11:51 am
Why is it that extremely isolated fringe groups HAVE to be labled either “far-right” or “far-left”? Do any of these groups actually engage in particapatory democracy? Do they even encourage their followers to vote? And if so, seeing that they are viruriently anti-government do they just say, “vote Rebublican” by defaut. I just don’t get it. Does that make me part of the poor feeble minded masses that is apparently so susceptable to the evil right? BAAAAAAAAAAAA!!! Please save me!?!?
on January 14th, 2011 at 11:58 am
I don’t vote PERIOD. I want to, but I can’t bring myself to. I just do not trust either “side”. If the comments I’m reading here are an acurate gauge of the left, I will continue to hate politics. God help this country.
on January 14th, 2011 at 12:26 pm
jenelle…..no one is calling to ban the first amendment on here….but do not hijack it either and use it in a irresponsible way…the way that the right has manipulated it recently is like russia ,china and cuba,incite harm to anyone who does not agree with your politics…both parties like to talk “smack” but by far the most poisonous,demonizing and dangerous rhetoric comes from the right…they leave zero room to find common ground with issues in the middle…with the right its either there way or they will tear you down one way or another.and again that is behaving like they do in russia,china or cuba.tolerance is indeed not liberty to a point…but living in a society with zero tolerance that is a tragedy.
on January 14th, 2011 at 12:43 pm
Case in point. I am 46 yrs. old. I do not, have NEVER, and do not plan to EVER own a gun. The ONLY time I have ever held a hand gun in my hand and fired it was while shooting at some empty milk jugs in a refuse pit on the farm we (dad, uncle, cousin, grandfather) were hunting on. I was a child, maybe 11, 12 yrs. old. POINT: It scared the shit out of me! One shot. Had enough. Too much power in the palm of the hand. Now, I enjoyed shooting at targets with “my” BB gun. Would carry and occationally shoot “my” shotgun (recoil; cheek/right shoulder— “Ouch!’). But shooting at and KILLING living things? Too much blood, too squemish.
I relate this to illustrate I grew up around firearms. (almost entirely “long” guns) I went to a private parochial grade school and most kids would talk about hunting trips with their fathers/relatives. The point is while I was personally leery around firearms, I don’t EVER remember being afraid of the people around me. (maybe a little at times….??? but no ingrained event I can put my finger on). Where did all this voilence come from? I’m sure it existed but it seems to have skyrocketed. Why?
Are you listening?
on January 14th, 2011 at 3:27 pm
The left should decide what is responsible speech. Again, have you researched the history of “tolerance?” It has nothing to do with freedom. Why is it that only certain beliefs are to be tolerated?
How can one find common ground on the issues at hand? Only the right must move to the center. Compromise is not automatically a good thing.
“poisonous,demonizing and dangerous rhetoric” – why all this name calling? Is no one ever allowed to be skeptical?
on January 14th, 2011 at 6:09 pm
January 14, 2011
I have no idea who Jared Lee Loughner nor any affiliation with him and his views, Money is necessary to use in this life, but threatening and taking peopled lives is not fare. What does taking a life or lives do to help the living? What good comes out of an expression of death is better for all?
on January 14th, 2011 at 9:17 pm
Why am I always so late chiming into these online conversations? At any rate, I have to say, I am no fan of Sarah Palin and the Tea Party, to be honest I am a Marxist whose favorite book really is the Communist Manifesto. I’m no fan of Obama and the Democrats either. I do think an inordinate amount of the blame is being piled on Palin specifically and the right in general. Democrats have used plenty of violent rhetoric themselves. The analysis here wants to emphasize Loughner’s references to right rhetoric and discount his references to left rhetoric. The analysis on Tea Party websites wants to emphasize his references to left rhetoric and discount his references to right rhetoric. My guess is he did not truly understand either. He was confused and grasping at straws to explain the hypocrisy and injustice that is obvious to all of us, even if we choose many different interpretations as to it’s causes and solutions. Why is Palin to blame? Amy Bagadonuts, in the 15th comment from the top, provides some great links that are just as convincing in blaming Obama or Daily Kos. Palin is a moron, and a dangerous moron at that, but she doesn’t deserve to shoulder the blame for Loughner’s actions. Having said that, she looks more and more foolish every day that she defends herself. The best thing for her to do would be to apologize for anything she may have said that could have contributed to an atmosphere where this kind of tragedy is possible. Without accepting blame she should publicly pledge to tone down her rhetoric and plead for others, on all sides, to do the same. That would be the honorable thing to do. But then, when has Sarah Palin ever done the honorable thing?
One last thing: how come there was nothing resembling this kind of debate when the shooting at Fort Hood occurred? How easy is it for us to accept that Arabs/Muslims commit violence without explanation, but when a white man does it someone must be to blame? And so we put the blame on a woman and consider ourselves progressive thinkers! I’ve got a suggestion: perhaps it is the capitalist economic system itself and it’s perpetual alienation of humanity that is to blame…
on January 15th, 2011 at 5:44 am
“We should definitely get rid of the outdated 1st amendment to stifle those who disagree with us.”
Nobody is advocating that.
” You, know, so we can be like China, Russia, Cuba, etc. Let tyranny reign.”
From the Russian constitution:
Article 28
Everyone shall be guaranteed the freedom of conscience, the freedom of religion, including the right to profess individually or together with other any religion or to profess no religion at all, to freely choose, possess and disseminate religious and other views and act according to them.’
And…article 29:
Article 29
1. Everyone shall be guaranteed the freedom of ideas and speech.
2. The propaganda or agitation instigating social, racial, national or religious hatred and strife shall not be allowed. The propaganda of social, racial, national, religious or linguistic supremacy shall be banned.
3. No one may be forced to express his views and convictions or to reject them.
4. Everyone shall have the right to freely look for, receive, transmit, produce and distribute information by any legal way. The list of data comprising state secrets shall be determined by a federal law.
5. The freedom of mass communication shall be guaranteed. Censorship shall be banned.
Russia, China, and Cuba have their respective problems for a number of reasons, but they are hardly “tyrannies.”
Next time check your facts. Of course people say that things don’t really work that way in Russia, but then again the same thing applies in the US.
Ok…then you wrote…
” We could change things to be more like Russia, who actually has “separation of church and state” written into their constitution.”
http://www.constitution.ru/en/10003000-01.htm
Please show me where that phrase appears. I have already posted Russia’s article relating to freedom of religion. In fact Russia needs separation of church and state, because the state has ties to various religious organizations.
I highly suggest you start checking the claims you hear on the radio or Fox news from now on.
on January 15th, 2011 at 9:49 am
He doesn’t have to make any sense at all if he’s crazy.
on January 15th, 2011 at 7:02 pm
I believe he is not as crazy as people think! He was able to say he will not talk without an attorney. He was able to say that the Dems will represent him and save him – which, to me, says he knows that the left are definitely people who are caring and believe in human rights. Not one report from officials that he was ‘incoherent, rambling speech,” once in custody or while in detention.
Either way, people need to not only turn off the television, people need to stop relying in technology so much. There are the text messages, blackberries, ipads, facebook…when did people get to the point where they can’t deal with people in person. In this country, people criticize minorities for ‘not being able to read and write,’ well with all of the technology, eventually we won’t be able to write. With all of the radio/television programs, technology, eventually we will all be anti-social.
on January 16th, 2011 at 5:23 am
If a person with a Middle Eastern name had made gun related comments similar to Sarah Palin and Jesse Kelly, that person would have been nailed by Homeland Security and held indefinitely for questioning, his background searched, and his reputation smeared forever. Palin and Kelly deserve the same treatment.
on January 16th, 2011 at 9:27 am
His former classmates described him as leftwing.
on January 16th, 2011 at 3:42 pm
ayn rand, animal farm, and mein kampf don’t make you leftwing. the figure that seems to be emerging is of a libertarian/anti-communist. seen a lot of guys like him floating around the fringes for years.
on January 16th, 2011 at 3:49 pm
went to a guns rights thing years ago – dominated by birchers, national alliance, and nwo types. you got to see these guys in action to believe them. anyone who hasn’t really doesn’t get the danger they represent.
on January 16th, 2011 at 11:52 pm
“His former classmates described him as leftwing.”
Right, because American teenagers have top-notch political education and can easily recognize the content of one’s ideology.
on January 17th, 2011 at 3:36 am
Curiouser and curiouser, when those on the right spout their views, somehow it is considered that what they say is somehow true and when those on the left challenge every aspect of the right and show that it is either incorrect, not true, or a Republican Luntz talking point, which is basically a distortion of the topic. As in the “job killing health care bill” or “bailouts” or “government takeover of healthcare” or “death panels” in the healthcare bill to name a few.
The healthcare bill that was passed does not actually cause any loss in jobs; theTARP was not really a bailout, but was a Temporary Assistance Recovery Program that was started by Bush before Obama was even in office;there is no government takeover, the insurance companies are still in control, and now have 32 million new customers; the end of life discussions with the terminally ill or elderly who are ill and are dying with doctors being paid to have these discussions, is not a death panel.
Objectively describing right wing views is not namecalling, nor is it that anyone’s speech is being taken away when the right wing is being criticized; when the views of the arguments that are presented by the right are debunked factually, instead of accusing someone of disallowing a different point of view, maybe if the proponents of the right would talk to the issues it would be better. But because the right usually just spouts FOX noise misinformation and outright lies, these become the conservative views and naturally the views can be torn down and shown to be false it seems unlikely that those on the right will change.
The 1st amendment guarantees separation of church and state in the very first line. Just because a friend of Glenn Beck, otherwise known as David Barton revises histroy by saying it does not exist, does not make it so. Barton is well known for distorting what the Founding Fathers said
and is not a historian in actuality. The evangelicals have nothing to stand on in their religion but things for which there is no evidence. There is no science in the bible, it was written in the Bronze age and has been traced to Pagan writings that were written before the bible. So anything that Barton says about religion or the Constitution, should be taken with a grain of salt, and in most cases outright given no credibility. I kinow some commenters will be either defensive, offended or will just disagree, but that is ok.
on January 17th, 2011 at 11:23 am
Why do the mentally ill not have Civil Rights as well? We are a country that wants to fight for everyone’s rights! Everyone has a say in the political process and we pride ourselves on the laws we’ve passed to make sure that happens.
But, one group of Americans is categorically left out of the mainstream, shunned and looked down upon in this nation — those who are mentally ill.
People cannot help it if they’re brain does not function neuro-typically. You cannot pop your fingers and make mental illness go away the same way you can’t pop your fingers and make cancer go away. You need help. You need support. You need a community of people who care enough about you to make sure that you get that help.
I will never condone the actions of this young man. But, I am ashamed the way Americans look down their noses at the mentally ill. If someone had cared enough about this young man’s mental illness this tragedy would never have happened because he would probably be in a hospital getting the psychiatric help he needed.
The mentally ill are medically sick, not always criminally hateful. They cannot help their actions sometimes because are they just — sick. And, we need to understand that and stop looking at them like they’re “un-American.”
That’s my take. And, on MLK Day, MLK would also offer sympathy to this man’s family along with the victims because that was his character.
Dee
on January 17th, 2011 at 12:15 pm
As of today, as more and more people are chiming in with oped columns and letters to the editor in my local mid-sized metropolitan newspaper, the overwhelming consensus seems to be this was an APOLITICAL act perpitrated by a sick and deranged and hatefilled INDIVIDUAL, period. How ’bout that for a run-on sentence!
on January 17th, 2011 at 12:53 pm
All of you that are sitting here blaming the Tea Party, the Democrats, Sarah Palin, Fox News, Obama, etc etc… This is exactly what we need to stop. Pointing fingers in anger and blame will only fuel the fire. I think it’s safe to say that most everyone agrees that the inflammatory, insulting, violent rhetoric needs to stop. Maybe one political party uses it more than the other, but again, that is not the point here. What we should really be discussing is this: How are we going to stop it? What can you personally do to change the hostile, angry environment that politics has become? One person can’t do it alone, but together Americans can. The thing is, we can’t unite in this if we’re busy blaming each other’s parties for the issues. Stop debating about whose fault this tragedy is, and start thinking of ideas to prevent something like this from happening again.
on January 17th, 2011 at 1:56 pm
Why the heck are we all so keen on assigning this nut to the left or right. He surely stands on his own here. The idea that everyone, who says something that others disagree with, has to be categorized politically as left or right is ridiculous. The fact is very few Americans agree with everything one political party espouses.
on January 17th, 2011 at 3:57 pm
Deft,
Did you see the youtube video entitled, “Sarah Palin Battle Hymn,” allegedly sung by tea party?
Dee,
Agree with you 110%. All one has to do is come to ‘skidrow’ in downtown Los Angeles. At one point, it was alleged by reporters that ambulances/hospitals/police were dumping people in skidrow if they were considered/determined to be homeless. However, the Mission (Fred Jordan) seems to be the only one that really tries to help them. However, during the holidays, movie stars come out to help serve meals. What makes this scenario kind of dangerous, is, now there are families with small children that are moving there. Skidrow has a mix of homeless families, drug addicts, alcoholics, ex-convicts, and the mentally ill (some were former doctors, lawyers…).
on January 17th, 2011 at 8:42 pm
this man had mental issues and a mentally deranged person can believe something one day and then believe something completely opposite the next because he is unstable! this man was caught up in the perfect storm that is arizona politics which is where he lives.hateful,scapegoating rhetoric.if this man was on the internet posting on you tube you would have to be naive to think that he wasn’t also on other sites like maybe sarah palins with the crosshairs and as far as the inflammatory/racist/hateful rhetoric i would say that most is coming from the right especially since obama became president.
on January 18th, 2011 at 12:48 pm
People believe what they want to believe. Doesn’t make it true.
on January 20th, 2011 at 2:35 am
So “I” People say things too, but it doesn’t mean that it is true.
What you said is not what I hope to be true. My hope is that what people believe is based on reality and facts that can be verified. Truth is neither right nor left, nor are facts a matter of left or right, however, I would bet, and it is my opinion, for which I have a high regard for the facts, that there is more attention paid to the facts in those who are the liberals than the FOX noise machine right wing Republican conservatives.
The recent poll about sources of information and whether there was misinformation more at particular media sources than others, and it was found that more people were misinformed who watched FOX noise than any other outlet. Don’t believe it? Look it up.
on January 20th, 2011 at 10:11 pm
” . . .his apparent semi-literacy.”
really? do you really wonder about anyone in the USA being semi-literate? I assume it.
on January 21st, 2011 at 12:23 pm
Boy, is this character even is uglier than a peck of butt holes! He doesn’t even deserve his 15 minutes of fame. What motivates killers like him is that he wants notoriety, plain and simple. Colin Wilson puts it brilliantly in his book: The History of Murder, “man has become less concerned with the basics of life, because he has them, ” but now he is bored with that, so he turns to the crime of “self-esteem.” Loughner was seeking to become a somebody, because he was a nobody.
on January 22nd, 2011 at 12:37 pm
I’m tired of this topic. I have much more important things to worry about in my life. That said, I appreciate that somebody responded to one of my posts. Problem is nash#’s, it was BY FAR the least thoughtful and heartfelt and PERSONAL of those posts. It was a sort of off hand “I give up” comment. Seeing I got you’re attention, any comments on my other posts?
(If this blog is still relevent.?!)
on January 22nd, 2011 at 4:10 pm
To say that Palin and Fox News are responsible for inciting Loughner’s actions is as assinine as saying that the Beatles’ White Album incited Charles Manson’s actions. Sorry, I meant the actions of his followers!
on February 5th, 2011 at 2:54 pm
For what it’s worth, a lot of what Loughner said about our money system and specifically about the Federal Reserve being a private, for-profit enterprise is true. Those views are actually not that controversial, it is not difficult to find mainstream sources that will confirm them.
on February 9th, 2011 at 8:08 pm
I was very saddened to see the use of hostile discriminatory language on the page of an organization who champions tolerance and appropriate cultural competency in speech.
Individuals who experience mental illness are not deranged or any other of the stigmatizing language used here.
Language is important. Please be moe respectful. It is inappropriate and damaging to use this kind of language to describe Mr. Loughner. He is still accused, not convicted of a crime and the facts about his mental health is not public knowledge at this time. The conversation should focus more productively on violence prevention and on providing appropriate justice system and mental health resources for all Americans.
on February 7th, 2013 at 6:35 am
Floyd Lee Corkins II, the man who shot up the Family Research Council, specifically stated when he pled guilty to the crime that he picked out the FRC based on the Southern Poverty Law Center’s “Hate Map.”
SPLC sends out thugs like these to attack innocent people and kill them. It is, after all, a ‘Hate Map’ and Corker understood that meant he should kill them.
This is the hate filled face of the totalitarian left.