Hatewatch Tweets
Hatewatch is managed by the staff of the Intelligence Report, an investigative magazine published by the Alabama-based civil rights group Southern Poverty Law Center.
Neo-Confederates Offer Creative Take on ‘War Between the States’
In February 1961, more than 50,000 people – including three state governors – showed up in Montgomery, Ala., to commemorate the 100th anniversary of Jefferson Davis’ inauguration as the first (and only) president of the Confederate States of America. It was one of many massive events that would mark the controversial, racially charged centennial of the Civil War. The same year in April, officials in Charleston, S.C., hoisted a Confederate battle flag above the Capitol in commemoration of the 100th anniversary of the attack on Fort Sumter that started the war. It flew until July 2000. By contrast, the war’s sesquicentennial, which kicked off toward the end of last year, has been marked primarily by the sound of crickets chirping. A December 2010 “secession ball” sponsored in Charleston by the Sons of Confederate Veterans (SCV), a Southern heritage group, was modestly attended and roundly condemned by the media. Last February, fewer than 1,000 stalwarts rallied in Montgomery for the SCV-sponsored sesquicentennial of Davis’ inauguration, and April’s commemoration of Fort Sumter wrapped up after just a few days.
America, it seems, has moved on.
For the most part, that is. But in the alternative reality inhabited by the League of the South (LOS), a neo-Confederate hate group, the war – and its outcome – are still very much unsettled. In an essay on the League’s “official” “North Carolina War Between the States Sesquicentennial Commission” website Clyde Wilson, an professor emeritus of history at the University of South Carolina and founding member of LOS, bemoans the loss of the Lost Cause:
“America in 2011 is a very different country than America in 1961. The long march of cultural Marxism (political correctness) through American institutions, which began in the 1930′s, has achieved most of its objectives,” he complains. “It is now established with Soviet party-line rigour that The War was ‘caused by’ and ‘about’ slavery and nothing but slavery.”
“‘Slavery’ cannot begin to account for the experience of Americans in what is still the central, bloodiest, and most revolutionary event in our history,” he continues. “It is our opinion that history is far too important to be left to official ‘experts.’… We owe it to North Carolinians of the past to ensure that the North Carolinians of the present and future understand the experience of those days.”
Thank goodness for small blessings! Were North Carolinians of the past, present, and future to rely on the official official sesquicentennial website put together by the North Carolina Department of Cultural Resources, they might be tricked into believing all manner of absurd notions. Fortunately, free thought still has a home at the LOS’ “official” site, whose “academic board” – which includes Wilson, Holocaust-denying ex-priest Boyd Cathey, and other prominent hard-line Confederate apologists – has cobbled together quotes from Confederate heroes to create a complete alternative history of the war, its causes and outcome.
An excerpt from the 1901 autobiography of former Confederate Gen. Samuel French tells us that the Ku Klux Klan was the only postwar protection from marauding ex-slaves whose “immorality [was] taught by men from the slums of Northern cities.” According to the timeless wisdom of Zebulon Vance, a Confederate veteran and the 37th and 43rd governor of North Carolina, “The carpetbag rulers were infinitely worse than the Negroes.”
The LOS commission has also created events to commemorate the war. For the most part, they’ve consisted of reenactments and rededications, often co-hosted with the Sons of Confederate Veterans. One August event featured “the world’s only full-sized replica of a 158’ gunboat designed to defend North Carolina.” Another proffered an “Authentic WBTS [War Between the States]-Era Recruiting Table” and a presentation on “WBTS-era Farming Methods, Produce and Accoutrements.” For most events, period dress was encouraged.
All’s quiet on the Northern Front this weekend, but between Oct. 14 and 16, LOS will commemorate the battle of Monroe’s Crossroads, which is described by the National Park Service as “not a major battle in terms of its effect on the outcome of the war.”
Should be a blast from the past.
on October 4th, 2011 at 5:21 pm
Even after 150 years the south hasn’t risen again. Cub fans in Chicago could learn something from the league of the south. Maybe next year…or 150 years from now!
on October 4th, 2011 at 6:10 pm
Just sitting here scratching my head.
Why do so many in the south revere the Civil War and talk of the cause and glory of the South? Whydoes the Confederate BATTLE flag (not the Confederate States National Flag) garner worship often left only to religious icons? Why are so many celebrating an event that had, as its SOLE purpose, the dissolution of the US and the rejection of the Constitution that now so many in the South claim they are defending in congress and at Tea Party rallies?
What if US citizen descendants of Santa Ana actually celebrated the VICTORY at the Alamo? Or Native Americans had a day of celebration for the VICTORY at the Little Big Horn over a self serving mass murder proponent ? Would these same southern “veterans” groups also accept that pride in victory? Or of the causes those victories surrounded?
Would German politicians DARE celebrate the honor and glory of the defenders of the Third Reich so openly and lovingly?
Time to get PAST the fall of the Confederate States and no longer look lovingly at the act of treason towards the US that it represented.
But, alas, many cannot conceive of a concept that the cause(s) of the South was neither just nor victorious.
on October 5th, 2011 at 8:26 pm
I, too, don’t get civil war reenectments. Why do it? It would be like a group of Germans reenacting the Nazi era of Germany. I’m not saying you shouldn’t forget it because it’s part of the history, but reenecting it is stupid.
on October 5th, 2011 at 10:36 pm
I wonder how Harry Bertram feels about the whole civil war issue? On the one hand, he’s from West Virginia (which seceded from Virginia so that it could remain a part of the Union rather than going Rebel as the rest of Virginia did). So you’d think it might be a Union sympathizer. On the other hand, Bertram’s white nationalist views have a lot in common with those of neo-confederates.
In case you’re wondering who Harry Bertram is, he was the nominee of the American Third Position Party for governor of WV. He managed to get enough signatures to appear on the ballot (along with four other candidates) and also ran a few white nationalist TV ads. The election was just yesterday and Bertram lost resoundingly, coming in a distant fifth with less than 0.4% of the vote. Looks like West Virginia is no place for hate; kudos to WV!
“West Virginia, mountain mama, take me home, country roads” – John Denver
on October 6th, 2011 at 12:38 pm
I have lived in the South for over 60 yrs, altho’ my ancestors do not go back to the Civil War (thank god), and I can’t figure out so “many in the south revere the Civil War and talk of the cause and glory of the South”. It’s unfathomable to me that anyone celebrates the unjust “lost cause” that was the reason for the Civil War, or the War Between the States, or the War of Northern Aggression or whatever people call it now. It’s stupid, racist and gives the progressives in the South (yes we do exist) a bad name.
on October 6th, 2011 at 1:22 pm
Being from the South, and having ancestors that fought for the South , I guess you just have to understand it’s a regional thing and a way of life .
Contrary to what many believe 80% of the men that fought for the South never owned slaves and were just a poor as the skaves themselves . Also another reason is just what we have now , Government overstepping it’s boundries . Since when did it become Uncle Sugar’s responsibility to tell people what to eat or feed their children , among other things .
I will now sit back and wait to be called a bunch of names like racist , bigot , redneck , or some kind of phobe .
on October 6th, 2011 at 1:36 pm
Please recall that Civil War reinactments are not done exclusively by supporters of the old south. They are also done by people with a passion for historical battles of any era, as well as by people who like to dress up in period clothing. There are lots of reasons for reinactments.
on October 6th, 2011 at 1:42 pm
This past Christmas I was given a antigue US History book. Printed and published in 1895, the title THE HISTORY OF THE CIVIL WAR. On the last page its stated all who were involved that fought for the CSA were given pardons for their treasonest acts. Today these people calling for session are traitors to our country.
on October 6th, 2011 at 1:44 pm
Part of the reenactment attraction is the equipment that is required – authentic if you can find it. Buckles, buttons and hardest of all antique firearms. Some of it is done on horseback and that’s a challenge for both horse and rider. That said , some use these events to perpetuate ideas of Hate and Racism. The public is much better at seeing thru these smokescreens as evidenced with who’s in the White House. Their gatherings are getting smaller.
on October 6th, 2011 at 2:35 pm
Dr. MJG, I could not have said it better myself – thank you for posting a great message. The “South” committed treason – and had it not been for the tolerant attitude on the part of the Union, Robert E. Lee would have been prosecuted for treason. The South’s cause was NEVER “just” in any way, shape, or form. There is NO excuse for confederate flags – the whole fiasco should be kept in its place and never, ever elevated to anything except a horrendous part of our country’s history during which thousands and thousands died.
on October 6th, 2011 at 2:37 pm
I was born in Washington State, Eagle Scout, served in the US Army, have lived in WA, CA, OK, TX, NY, GA, and since 2001 Florida, I love it! I own a small business,the weather and people of the South are wonderful! I have a Stars and Bars sticker on the front of my window shield, the flag of my Region. That is most likely going to rub most of you reading this the wrong way, stay up North where Yankees belong! :o)
on October 6th, 2011 at 2:49 pm
Why is it that only reinactments of The Civil War take place in the south? If I am mistaken please excuse me. I have lived in the south now for 14 years. I grew up in the north. I don’t understand the attracton to the reinactments.
To many in the south are still in the mind set of damned yankees, instead of we are all the world’s citizens. The Civil War has been over for a very long time, the south lost, it is time to get over it.
on October 6th, 2011 at 2:52 pm
Two things.
First, every time – EVERY TIME I hear “It’s heritage, not hate” (or language matching that), the speaker turns out to be a bigot who doesn’t want to admit the truth about the Civil War… it was about slavery and keeping the rich plantation owners/slave traders in power, and “State’s rights” is a smoke screen.
A person I knew threw away his civil war stuff when he learned that after a certain point (not that late in the war), the confederate soldiers often died cursing the south. He learned to his horror that what he’d learned all his life down here was BS – and an excuse for continued discrimination.
Second, if Clyde Wilson is Professor Emeritus, there have to be some serious questions asked of the other faculty. You have to be ELECTED Professor Emeritus by your colleagues, and it’s based upon respect and scholarship. If he is spouting cr*p like that, then any serious historian would have problems with him. I think Emeritus can be taken away,
on October 6th, 2011 at 2:57 pm
Go West Virginia…! Well done… So all the traitors got pardoned…..and so many millions of our countrymen died…… What is wrong with these fools that cling to their stupidity…? Progress…move forward…. the world watches!
on October 6th, 2011 at 3:18 pm
Now c’mon folks… it isn’t ‘unfathomable’ that some (lets not engage in unfair stereotyping of all or even most Southerners) Southerners have these views about the Civil War. People can and will believe what they want to believe; we see evidence of this every day. Wilson is right in that the Civil War was certainly not “only” about slavery, but that strawman doesn’t rescue the rest of his misguided (and historically dismissed) ranting. Of course we need to dismiss the “experts,” because of course the last folks we’d want to learn about history from is historians. Southern identity took a major blow from the Civil War, and some have apparently found it difficult to move beyond that damage, so they invent a mythical Southern history and mythical Civil War to salve the wound. It’s pretty easy to understand actually. ‘No excuse for historical ignorance or misrepresentation, but understandable.
on October 6th, 2011 at 3:21 pm
@Mike, the fact that may soldiers didn’t own slaves only reinforces the whole reason for the war in the f9rst place, which was to preserve the right of the planter aristocracy to rule their feudal empires tended by hordes of slaves (who outnumbered white citizens 3/2 in South Carolina) and the ostensibly “free” white peasants. By agitating for sixty years against Northern plots to “interfere”, and insisting on slavery being installed in every new territory, the planters managed to convince the poor whites that they had a stake in keeping African-Americans enslaved, ensuring a legacy of racism which remains strong to this day.
The Civil War, especially in the south, was, like every war, a matter fought by the poor on behalf of the rich. What makes it especially egregious, though, is the fact that the economic self-interest of the aggressor South depended on the maintenance of slavery. To say that the war wasn’t over slavery is disingenuous at best, and apologism at worst. Just look at Alexander Stephens, confederate Vice-President, who proudly declared
“Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth.”
Whatever the motivation of the individual soldiers. (Many were motivated by their idea of patriotism, yes, but many were also motivated by racism), the underlying cause of the war was Slavery, and slavery alone.
on October 6th, 2011 at 5:02 pm
Half the participants in a reenactment are on the Union side, you know. It’s just history buffs who like to fire black powder. Up in New England, the reenactors fight Revolutionary wars. Someone always has to play the Redcoats.
on October 6th, 2011 at 5:25 pm
The propaganda that slavery was not the cause of our American Civil War is mostly gone but there will always be some who will claim otherwise. Neo-confederates need to be responded to and identified.
on October 6th, 2011 at 5:35 pm
#1:The South fought to peserve the US Constitution,which allowed Slavery. Yes the North won the war and then changed the US constitution after the war was lost by the South and which had no representation other than from Tennessee. And you call Southerns Traitors? Study up Yankee
#2:…Then Why War? The South paid 80% of the US traiffs which was the support of the US Government but only had 30% of the population. Don’t you people ever read?
#3:The end of slavery was a result of the War not its cause. Your Mr.m Lincoln changed the War from a purly economic war to a cusade.The northern soildiers fought for Union not abolition.
If the South is now so wrong why are so many of you guys moving down here. Delta is ready when you are so go home to Detroit and enjoy the way of yankee happy?
on October 6th, 2011 at 5:43 pm
Hey Mike,
At the risk of going a bit off-topic, would you mind telling us in what ways you believe the government is overstepping its boundaries? How do you believe that it overstepped its boundaries during the Civil War (a bit more on-topic)?
on October 6th, 2011 at 8:17 pm
ModerateMike said,
Hey Mike,
At the risk of going a bit off-topic, would you mind telling us in what ways you believe the government is overstepping its boundaries? How do you believe that it overstepped its boundaries during the Civil War (a bit more on-topic)?
How do I feel the gov is overstepping it’s boundaries ? , Well one way is just what I referenced in my post , another is a lot of the agencies the Feds have created . Why do we need a US dept of Ed , Health and Human Services , Dept of Trans , when states handle that already at the state level . Another I believe is the Health care bill , the US gov has no right to mandate an individual to purchase anything , or force a State to force it’s citizens to do it . There are more that don’t come to mind right now .
How did they overstep during the Civil War era . Slavery among other things were legal during those days and were permitted under the US Constitution and State Constitutions during that time . The Feds had no right to push an individual State into doing away with an issue that is covered under it’s Constitution . Just like with the Immigration issue now here in Alabama and again in Arizona , the Feds have no right to sue to force a State to change items in it’s Constitution .
Before anyone accuses me of being a bigot over the immigration issue or being for slavery , NO !! I don’t oppose immigration , I oppose illegal immigration . Also do not and never will support slavery of any kind .
on October 6th, 2011 at 8:49 pm
@Buzz, recall that at the time the change in the constitution (14th), most of the southern states did not have representation because they had not formally been readmitted with right to vote. Their status was the same as Puerto Rico is today, territories of the US but not with voting representation. Puerto Rico IS governed by the US Constitution as well as their own set of laws, much as states are.
The you MUST recall, the south was traitorous to the Constitution that such as Perry claim to defend.
on October 6th, 2011 at 9:05 pm
Anyone who says slavery was the main cause of the civil war is not only in error, but they have also bought into the lies spread by the federal government at the end of the war. While still a congressman, Lincoln said that he supported the notion that the individual states had the right to seceed from the union if so inclined. That it was the right of the people to throw off an oppressive government, replacing it with one that met the needs of the people.
General grant and General Lee both declared that If they thought the civil war was being fought about slavery, they would resign their comissions.
The only soldier that refused to take the oath of alliegence to the federal government at wars end, was an African American who fought for the south and was wounded in 3 battles. He refused until the day he died.
Yankees just dont get it and never will. History is written by the victors of the battle and usually the facts are lost in the victors interpretation of events..
on October 6th, 2011 at 11:03 pm
As an atheist I’m a pacifist and don’t think that war is ever justified.
The U.S. State Department could have resolved any problems that existed in the Moslem world far before we reached the point of invading Afghanistan and Iraq,
Retaliation has been a costly mistake for us in lives, property and finances.
Southerners should be honest about the reasons for the Civil War just as we should all be honest about the War on Terror. The Civil War was fought about slavery.The Texas Revolution was fought about slavery as well because Santa Anna abolished slavery in Mexico that was why the flag over the Alamo was the banner with the date 1822 on it referring to the Constitution of 1822 which had permitted slavery in Texas.
My Mother told me before she died that her Father had been a member of the KuKlux Klan during the 1930′s.I was horrified but I’m glad I never got involved with that kind of hate group I’m a supporter of this group which should be nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize.
on October 7th, 2011 at 12:40 am
@ModerateMike: I’m only speaking for myself here, but there are many instances of overreaching interference by the government. Killing anyone it wants dead (by the way: “jihadist” is somewhat misleading. al-`Awlaki was an imam who preached sermons supporting jihad, not an actual armed militant) is one way the government is overstepping its bounds. Other ways in which it oversteps reasonable bounds include police brutality and the death penalty.
As for the Civil War, it was not fought over slavery. It was fought to unify the country, and only later did Lincoln actually decide to manumit slaves. Now, he most probably had that goal in mind when he became president, and the Confederates knew it, so out of fear they seceded to preserve slavery. The reason for their secession certainly had nothing to do with “states’ rights”. However, Lincoln did not announce an intention to free slaves initially, and even when he did, Blacks did not gain our human rights. Millions of soldiers (used for cannon fodder) were murdered for a few white slaveowning elites, and when the supposedly “right” side won and did away with slavery, Blacks stayed oppressed. What a useless, destructive, and self-sacrificial exercise war is. And the Union did overstep its boundaries, even though they were the “lesser” of two evils (the Civil Rights Movement, nearly a hundred years after slavery, didn’t happen for nothing). See, for example, Sherman’s March, which was essentially a scorched-earth rampage.
on October 7th, 2011 at 1:01 am
In other words, the war was about protecting wealthy aristocrats on both sides. The CSA was an aristocracy where slave- and land-owning rich ‘White’ men controlled society and managed to convince poor ‘White’ farmers to kill and/or die for them. The CSA was created for the purpose of preserving slavery due to the prediction that if Lincoln were to be elected, he would abolish slavery. “States rights” is a neo-Confederate propaganda term, but it wasn’t definitive even in 1864 that the Union was fighting to abolish slavery. The soldiers, mostly from poor backgrounds, were fighting for no “cause”, just preserving governments of, for, and by the wealthy.
on October 7th, 2011 at 1:08 am
Mike, you do have some points. Most of the soldiers were hoodwinked into fighting the Rich Man’s War (sound familiar?) I wasn’t there so I don’t know how much of the average Southerner’s “way of life” depended on slavery. I don’t even know what you mean by “way of life”. I do believe General Sherman was unnecessarily brutal to civillians during his March to the Sea, a major blunder as the resentment still influences their culture to this day. I don’t believe that the advent of mechanized farming would have eliminated slavery because it still requires a lot of cheap hand labor. This is currently done by people of mostly Native American descent who have been artificially contrived by white immigrants to be mistreatable by painting dotted lines across what was once all their property and calling them “illegal” when they migrate.
on October 7th, 2011 at 4:07 am
Hmm…this guy thinks the Confederacy was about slavery.
“Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth.”
Who said that? Just some guy named Alexander Stephens, the VICE PRESIDENT OF THE CONFEDERACY.
Also the tariff argument is ridiculous. Tariffs were much higher during the presidency of Andrew Jackson yet they didn’t secede.
on October 7th, 2011 at 8:52 am
I’d like to set the record straight, for all of you “yankees” out there,
I only wanna say this once so listen up and, I’ll say it loud and clear!
There’s been a lot of confusion, as to what we southerners rightfully call,
“Abe Lincoln’s great war of aggression”, that one we fought with y’all.
Northerner’s insist on calling it “The Civil War”, like we were under Yankee rule,
but my northern friend, that ain’t the case, though they won’t teach that in school.
See, civil wars are fought over a ‘single’ government, by 2 or more armed bands,
Not by invading a soveriegn nation and laying claim to their people and lands.
We were a completely separate nation, with our own people empowered to legislate,
so us Southerners would prefer you use the term, “The War Between the States.”
The south had almost went bankrupt, by laws ramrodded thru by northern interests,
the only way to save the south, was for the South to become seccessionists!
Honest Abe said “we’ll save the Union, by throwing the Constitution out the door!”
“Forget seccession is a legal inherent right to all, to save the North, I’ll start a war!”
If the south seceedes, with them goes all tarrifs, duties, and taxes we are paid,
without which the north can not long survive, therefore gentlemen, we MUST invade!
“We’ll reinforce Fort Sumptner,” Abe said, “and that’ll force the South to start this fight,
and once the war is started,” He chuckled, “it’ll likely be over in a fortnight.”
But Ole Abe had underestimated, The strength of our southern resolve to be free,
He learned a hard lesson at Bullrun, as he watched his troops break rank and flee.
This war would not be over soon, despite all of Ole Abe Lincoln’s hopes and prayers,
he was now committed to see the war thru,and it would continue 4 long and bloody years.
To further his cause and rally support for his war, throughout the northern nation,
Slavery was declared an issue and thus was born the ‘emancipation proclamation.’
Although the proclamation declared all the slaves within the countries borders were free,
apparently it did not include the northern states of Maryland Delaware and Washington D.C.,
And although slavery was finally abolished in April 1865 throughout the southern states,
Northern slavery continued until december, for 8 more months they would have to wait.
Yes sir that war was one of pure aggression, brought about by Northern greed,
and aggression is the fertile soil, in which is planted secession’s seed!
So you need to rewrite your history books, because they’re wrong the way they are,
and just this once admit y’all were wrong, because……… there WAS NO “Civil war!”
.
on October 7th, 2011 at 10:21 am
I’m happy to see that we are starting to have some more civil and intelligent discussions in this forum, even if we don’t always agree.
@Mike no one has called you a bigot yet that I can see. That said, I have to disagree with you on the matter of the federal government having no right to force a state to change its constitution. Article VI, Section 2 of the U.S. Constitution makes that quite clear.
Just imagine if the federal government had no such authority; states could nullify basic rights with impunity.
on October 7th, 2011 at 10:22 am
Hey stump-jumpin’ Jethro- Nobody cares that your “country” seceded; it wasn’t recognized by anybody. Hence, it was a civil war.
on October 7th, 2011 at 1:00 pm
Mike, Buz and GoodoleRebel:
Y’all are ignorant. I grew up in the south, had parents from the deeper south and had great grandparents who were among the first settlers in North Carolina and had one of the largest plantations in their area at the time.
But none of us are dumb rednecks, some of my family fought on the side of the south and then left the southland for the arid lands of Arkansas that did not see a fruitful return until the depression era WPA work on the Mississippi.
My family is educated, they have risen above the hard-scrabble existence that was remembered from my grandparents, one who was orphaned at a young age due to both parents dying of Typhoid, in poverty after leaving their burned plantation and another who was the youngest of 8 children of a poor white trash family. He was booted out of the household at the age of 14, told he was big enough to go on his own.
With the help of the Knights of Columbus charity and scholarship fund both my grandparents rose above their past poverty and became pillars in their community. Yes, they held onto some silly racist beliefs typical of their time, but they made sure their children moved up and further out into the world and further away from poverty and striving. As a result, my family is very well off.
None of them talk about the plantation ownership history, none of them talk about the history of Jim Crow and the separation of black man and white, but I remember it well even into the seventies.
Don’t begin to tell me or anyone else that the civil war wasn’t about slavery. It was. Your efforts to paint it as something else are just your redneck, hillbilly, ignorant efforts to retain your racist hatred; the only sense of domination you have in your white trash world.
As for Matt: You may have lived everywhere and you may like the south, but for you to display a sticker of the stars and bars on your truck is an insult to every person who has suffered under the yoke of oppression that was the south.
Slavery was an institution that assisted the economic division of the south along lines of race and class. To this day poor whites cling to racist notions as the answer to their own oppression, sucked in still by the old siren call of the landowner. The siren call to stand in line to guard the interests of the white landowner while your own children starve in your rented cabin.
To put a stars and bars anywhere besides on the ground underfoot is to show that you are nothing more than an ingnoramus who either can’t understand history or a jackass who just doesn’t care.
Matt, if you want to commemorate your love of the south, please find another token rather than one of three hundred years of murder, torture and oppression.
Also, as for you Buz, I don’t know anyone who’s breaking a leg to go down to the Delta, which even before it was ravaged by Katrina was and still is a hellhole of oppression and ignorance to this day.
on October 7th, 2011 at 1:57 pm
This is one of the weirdest things I’ve ever seen. Apparently there are a bunch of American white supremacists who are petitioning Dmitri Medvedev (!) to end what they refer to as “white genocide”. In an apparent attempt to tug at people’s heartstrings, they place a photo of a white child’s bloodied face next to their petition. It seems to be gaining some (but not very much) traction, with over 200 people having signed it so far.
The fact that they’re bawling about it to the Russians of all people shows just how “patriotic” these white nationalists are; not at all! What a bunch of pinkos ;-)
http://www.change.org/petition.....e-genocide
on October 7th, 2011 at 1:57 pm
The doggerel pasted here by “Goodolerebel” is at least 2 years old and can be found at home.insightbb.com/~goodolerebel/UnCivilWar.shtml with a “copyright 2009″ appended. It was junk then and it remains junk now, as impaired historically as it is poetically.
on October 7th, 2011 at 8:36 pm
kate,
(1) In a “civil war,” two sides fight for the control of the same government. The American Revolution wasn’t a “civil war” because the American colonists had no desire to take over the British Empire!
Why are you describing the War Between the States as a “Civil War”? The South had no desire to rule the North. It was the North that attacked and invaded the South.
(2) Here in the South, the “Civil War” was about resisting the War of Northern Aggression – the only reason Arkansas, Tennessee, North Carolina, and Virginia seceded was because Lincoln called for troops to attack the Confederacy.
(3) You can’t hate it both ways – denouncing bigotry, but using slurs to attacks White people – unless you are a Yankee!
(4) Slavery hasn’t existed in Dixie for almost 150 years now. Whites don’t want to live among the Black Undertow for understandable reasons.
(5) Black people have destroyed too many neighborhoods, cities, and countries in America to count. Just look at Haiti and sub-Saharan Africa for other examples of their capacity to sustain civilization.
(6) Chances are the “White landowner” is a blood relative of the “white trash” you just got finished describing above. Most White Southerners owned their land back then.
(7) After the Great Liberation of the War Between the States, when Yankees came here to create the utopia after having destroyed the evil slaveowners, White people ended up losing their land to Yankee carpetbaggers.
(8) It is actually insulting to fly the American flag in Dixie – that is like flying the flag of Nazi Germany over Poland or the Union Jack over Ireland.
The American flag symbolizes tyranny and imperialism. Just ask the Plains Indians who were exterminated after the Union Army was redeployed to make the Great Plains safe for the transcontinental railroad after the war.
What happened at Wounded Knee?
Later, the American flag was raised over everything from Hawaii to Puerto Rico to Cuba to the Philippines by Yankees. They even raised the American flag over Germany and Japan.
(9) Are you kidding?
The American flag is the real symbol of imperialism, tyranny, murder and oppression – that is how the American flag, the Yankee flag, is seen all over the world today.
Only a Yankee would have come up with the idea of raising the American flag over places like Iraq and Vietnam and Korea and Japan and Germany.
The idea that the Yankee flag represents freedom is the most laughable thing that has probably ever been said in this comments. Do you know a thing about the history of the Yankee flag?
(10) The Mississippi Gulf Coast was hit by Hurricane Katrina. New Orleans was hit by the Black Undertow.
Detroit, which has never been hit by a hurricane. was hit by black people in 1967. Unlike Hiroshima, it never recovered!
on October 7th, 2011 at 8:36 pm
Ruslan Amirkhanov,
If memory serves, the Vatican recognized the Confederacy. Whoops.
on October 8th, 2011 at 12:33 am
“This is one of the weirdest things I’ve ever seen. Apparently there are a bunch of American white supremacists who are petitioning Dmitri Medvedev (!) ”
It’s not that odd if you’ve been following WN trends since the 90′s. Basically these WNs have got into their heads that Russia is one of the last “white” countries on Earth, and that it is “nationalistic” and what-not. While nationalism is very popular in Russia(relative to say, Germany), it is not “white” nationalism or even Pan-European nationalism.
In fact most Russians that you talk to despise Russia, if not openly than implicitly. Yes, they will often deny this, but it’s true and they know it.
White Nationalists typically view Russia as this nearly all-white wonderland(funny, they think it is so white yet it has corruption and other social problems rivaling and even exceeding some African nations). In fact Russia is heavily mixed, to the extent that nationalists had better take a look at demographic trends before engaging in their anti-Caucasian, anti-Islamic rhetoric.
They have heard horror stories about thousands of skinheads walking the streets of Moscow. BS. Every day I see African immigrants in Moscow, yet in over five years I can count the number of nationalists/neo-Nazi skins I’ve seen on one hand. Most of these skins are just football hooligans who would be just as likely to beat the crap out of some American WN trying to express solidarity with them.
Russians in particular also don’t have any use for the term “white”, far less so than other Europeans. If an American says “I’m Irish/Polish/German/whatever,” they are typically confused. The USSR stamped a person’s nationality on their passport, and thus it is assumed that “Americans” are simply “American”. That is why appealing to someone like Dmitriy Medvedev as if they have some kind of blood link with him is absolutely ridiculous beyond belief. Even if someone could explain to him why they made the appeal, he would just be incredibly confused.
on October 8th, 2011 at 5:57 am
Civil War reenactedments are popular in my own country(,UK) but no one engages in BS about the “lost cause” of the Cavaliers(probably the “Glorious Revolution of 1688 settled the issue as to who was subordinate to whom-the Crown to Parliament), if secession because of slavery was not the reason the South fought the Union, it beggars belief to think of the reason for the “War between the States”. Time to let the “Glorious Dead of the Confederacy” rest in peace and join the rest of the world in 2011, rather than living 146 years in the past, to my mind!
on October 8th, 2011 at 12:27 pm
Hunter,
You mention that southerners would never attempt to take foreign territory by force.
How convenient that you managed to forget the so-called filibustros who attempted to seize Cuba through a coup d’ etat and install their own, pro-slavery government.
But that never happened, right?
Pathetic.
on October 8th, 2011 at 1:48 pm
If the institution of slavery had not existed the civil war would not have occurred. The idea that the war was about states rights or the tariff is a subterfuge. Slavery was clearly the root cause for the civil war.
on October 8th, 2011 at 2:24 pm
Hello Hunter, thanks for showing up. Enjoy your humiliation.
“(1) In a “civil war,” two sides fight for the control of the same government. The American Revolution wasn’t a “civil war” because the American colonists had no desire to take over the British Empire!”
No country recognized the CSA, and no, the Vatican did not either. This was a mistake based on one letter the Pope addressed to Jefferson Davis referring to him as the president of the CSA. Nor formal recognition was granted.
“Why are you describing the War Between the States as a “Civil War”? The South had no desire to rule the North. It was the North that attacked and invaded the South.”
Hello- Fort Sumter? They wrote a check they couldn’t cash.
“(2) Here in the South, the “Civil War” was about resisting the War of Northern Aggression – the only reason Arkansas, Tennessee, North Carolina, and Virginia seceded was because Lincoln called for troops to attack the Confederacy.”
You can see it however you want, you’re still wrong.
:(3) You can’t hate it both ways – denouncing bigotry, but using slurs to attacks White people – unless you are a Yankee!”
Now who’s using slurs against white folks?
“(4) Slavery hasn’t existed in Dixie for almost 150 years now. Whites don’t want to live among the Black Undertow for understandable reasons.”
By all means list them.
“(5) Black people have destroyed too many neighborhoods, cities, and countries in America to count. Just look at Haiti and sub-Saharan Africa for other examples of their capacity to sustain civilization.”
A stunning display of ignorance of history, economics, and sociology, a trifecta if you will. Bravo!!!
“(6) Chances are the “White landowner” is a blood relative of the “white trash” you just got finished describing above. Most White Southerners owned their land back then.”
Actually the average white poor farmer was pretty much screwed by the plantation owners. It sure is hard to compete with massive plantations using slave labor. No wonder so many whites ended up having to take jobs as overseers or other elements of the slave economy.
“(7) After the Great Liberation of the War Between the States, when Yankees came here to create the utopia after having destroyed the evil slaveowners, White people ended up losing their land to Yankee carpetbaggers.”
Last time I checked those Yankees were white.
“(8) It is actually insulting to fly the American flag in Dixie – that is like flying the flag of Nazi Germany over Poland or the Union Jack over Ireland.”
My god the idiocy flows forth like a torrent! Let’s see- Poland is a different nationality from Germany, and this is not just a matter of formal recognition either. Ditto with Ireland and England.
“Dixie” is not a country, it is not a separate nationality, nobody recognized your pathetic quasi-feudal “state”.
“The American flag symbolizes tyranny and imperialism. Just ask the Plains Indians who were exterminated after the Union Army was redeployed to make the Great Plains safe for the transcontinental railroad after the war.”
Oh yeah, I’m sure the Confederacy never would have considered expansion into the Western territories or Mexico, and you would have treated the natives so kindly.
“Later, the American flag was raised over everything from Hawaii to Puerto Rico to Cuba to the Philippines by Yankees. They even raised the American flag over Germany and Japan.”
Oh yeah, that was SO mean what the US did to poor Germany and Japan!
“The American flag is the real symbol of imperialism, tyranny, murder and oppression – that is how the American flag, the Yankee flag, is seen all over the world today.”
Yes, but your flag represents slavery and the belief in racial supremacy. We’re pretty damned lucky the CSA was nipped in the bud, because imagine what a state with that ideology might do around the world. Then again, once you joined the folk the US continued its expansion. You want to act like southerners had nothing to do with that?
“Only a Yankee would have come up with the idea of raising the American flag over places like Iraq and Vietnam and Korea and Japan and Germany.”
Again with Japan and Germany huh?
“The idea that the Yankee flag represents freedom is the most laughable thing that has probably ever been said in this comments. Do you know a thing about the history of the Yankee flag?”
Your flag represents repression as well. The difference is that the Yankee flag at least represents successful repression.
(“10) The Mississippi Gulf Coast was hit by Hurricane Katrina. New Orleans was hit by the Black Undertow.
Detroit, which has never been hit by a hurricane. was hit by black people in 1967. Unlike Hiroshima, it never recovered!”
Yes, it’s black peoples fault they have been forced into ghettos via credit redlining and well-documented housing discrimination, as well as deindustrialization in those same neighborhoods. Remember when black folks in Michigan moved those factories to Mexico?
No wonder you hicks lost the war, you fail at elementary reasoning skills.
on October 8th, 2011 at 9:06 pm
I literally thank God that Ruslan is on here, and he is at least one person who has not used his education to get ahead by further stepping on downtrodden people, but to stand up for them.
on October 9th, 2011 at 3:12 pm
Wow, the ignorance and stupidity overflows from Buz, Hunter Wallace, goodoleerebel, in particular. But thanks to Kate, CM, and Ruslan who are here to set them straight. I am Southeren who could not take it any longer and moved North, The Jim DeMints and Lindsey Grahams are obvious representatives of the “Good ole South” from which I ran, not walked to get away from. They are as ignorant as the day is long.
I was born in Anderson, SC, and had an affinity for one of the Founders, Charles Pinckney, who was responsible solely for the part of the Constitution that says no religious test for public office, and collectively for the 1st Amendment regarding religion. He also wanted to remove any laws that at the heart were about and based on religion.
The poor who fought for the South were conscripts, not volunteers.
I once said to a fellow Southerner that folks in the South were hard to change and were resistant to new ideas, to which his reply was, “I don’t think people from the South are resistant to new ideas,” but you see, what I said to him was to him a new idea, and thereby he proved my point exactly by what he said. One reason I left was meeting so many Southerners like him.
Based on commenters here, it is obvious why we need folks like the SPLC to set things straight, fighting hate and ignorance at its basic levels.
It’s funny, poor white trash defending folks who are against them.
Leaving the South was not a light decision, but racism never took with me, I remember the signs that read “whites only” in the Roses Five and Dime dept stores, and was disheartened and stood up at every turn for the black people I knew, and was labelled a Ni**erlover, and beaten severely a few times in the process.
As mentioned previously, Jim DeMint and Leslie Graham are perfect representatives of the South. You can take the country boy to live in the city, but you can’t take the country out of the city boy. But then, at least there are folks like James Clyburn, the only Democrat from SC in the House who provides some balance.
on October 9th, 2011 at 3:38 pm
Another thing, folks move to the South for numerous reasons, the South’s distortion of the Civil War, and the Neo-Confederacy’s racism attitudes are probably not the reasons folks move. Could be economic, who knows.
It is like the old rebel bumper sticker with these Civil War apologists who say slavery was not the cause of the war, that says, “Hell, No I ain’t forgettin.’”and “The South will rise again”(at least they admit they are on the bottom).
Again, these folks won’t forget they lost the war and they were traitors to the USA, no matter how you slice it.
And so, like the crazy TprtyRethugnuts of today, they cannot take the fact that a black man won the white house and so, refuse to acknowledge him as being an American; they’re just sore losers. And I wish they would just go ahead and say what they are thinking, and go ahead and call President Obama, NI**ER.
I hear so often when Repubs talk of Obama, they never call him President Obama, just “Obama” with no sign of respect for him.
So, you TprtyRepubs who won’t acknowledge they lost the presidency and many seats in Congress in 2008 and Southerners who won’t let the Civil War die, wake up already and get with the rest of us.
And dumbass folks like Neil Boortz saying he is worse than 9/11.
And Hank Wiiliams Jr is a repulsive turd, but he should not have had his gig taken away, when he talks as he does in public, at least we know where he stands, unlike the many New Democratic Coalition members, the Bluedog Democrats, and the DLC, all of which have moved the Democratic party so far to the right and almost to the point of no return. Thank Zeus for the Progressive Caucus, and the Progressive Democrats, the real Democratic Party..
The Michael Savages, Rush Limbaugh, Michael Levin, Michelle Malkin, Bill O’Reilly, Glenn Beck, Ann Coulter and all those right wingers would just take a pill and admit President Obama is their president too, and call him Mr President, and President Obama as they should.
on October 9th, 2011 at 4:26 pm
Aron,
If memory serves, there were filibusters launched by private citizens against Cuba and Guatemala in the 1850s, which was not supported by the U.S. federal government, which was controlled by the Southern-controlled Democracy until the election of Lincoln in 1860.
Unlike the American flag, the Confederate flag symbolizes a group of people who fought to defend their own homes from a hostile war of aggression that took the lives of hundreds of thousands of White Southerners. In the war, the Yankees pioneered the art of total war that would later be unleashed in Europe in WW1.
The War Between the States was innovative in the history of warfare – previous wars in North America had been fought by gentlemen under the laws of war, such as the American Revolution, or the War of 1812, or the French and Indian Wars which settled the fate of Canada.
The Yankee ideal was to exterminate the enemy, incite race wars, and completely destroy the opposition – the same type of warfare that was unleashed on Europe in WW2 and Southeast Asia in the 1960s and early 1970s.
on October 10th, 2011 at 9:32 am
Thanks for your support, Sam. I started out reading this blog because I love hearing about all the hilarious WN movement drama. But over time I saw these WNs and right-wingers attacking with their arsenals of canned arguments. Since many of them are so easily refuted, I figured I’d do what I can.
on October 10th, 2011 at 10:54 am
Thanks for the kind words, Raymond. Like you I grew up in the South, but I still live here and still run into racist fools on a regular basis. Posting comments here is a little like playing Whack-a-Mole for me, though it’s a serious game. I’ve done it enough face-to-face with bigots to know that for the ones with the most tightly closed minds, the easy response is to call the opponent a N* lover and think they’ve won the debate. But I still have this hope that reasonable persuasion can make a difference, even if punching them in the snout sometimes seems like it might feel better.
on October 10th, 2011 at 3:59 pm
“Unlike the American flag, the Confederate flag symbolizes a group of people who fought to defend their own homes from a hostile war of aggression that took the lives of hundreds of thousands of White Southerners.”
Oops, you forgot defend your slavery as well.
” In the war, the Yankees pioneered the art of total war that would later be unleashed in Europe in WW1.”
Are you HIGH? If anyone pioneered “total war” it was probably Napoleon, as I believe he was the one that came up with the term. In any case it has nothing to do with those terrible “Yankees” seeing as how we got into the war in 1917, and the reason it was so bloody had to do with the machine gun and rapid-firing breech-loading howitzers. There was also this little thing called poison gas, which had nothing to do with the USA.
“The War Between the States was innovative in the history of warfare – ”
“previous wars in North America had been fought by gentlemen under the laws of war, such as the American Revolution, or the War of 1812, or the French and Indian Wars which settled the fate of Canada.”
Romantic nonsense. There is no such thing as a “Gentleman’s war.” And WHICH “laws of war” do you refer to, specifically?
“The Yankee ideal was to exterminate the enemy, incite race wars, and completely destroy the opposition – the same type of warfare that was unleashed on Europe in WW2 and Southeast Asia in the 1960s and early 1970s.”
Boy you sure are confused. First of all, your side fired on Ft. Sumter. Maybe you should have held off until you had some bigger industrial capacity. Your side also didn’t like banks too much; too bad war takes a lot of finance, huh? As for WWII, last time I checked the USA didn’t start that. Germany unleashed its war of extermination against the USSR, prior to the US even being involved.
I also notice you don’t say anything about the tens of thousands of Southerners who apparently gladly accepted this evil Yankee way of war and helped advance the Yankee flag all over the world.
on October 11th, 2011 at 8:37 am
Hunter,
I never said the filibustros were anything but private citizens seeking to further the cause of slavery.
Which of course you still haven’t denounced.
Once you denounce the fact that slavery was the basis for the filibustering, I’ll leave you alone.
In addition, you said that southerners would never support military action against a foreign power for territorial enlargement. And then you admitted the filibustros did exist.
You can’t have it both ways, Hunter.
Time to end the hypocrisy.
Aron
on October 12th, 2011 at 2:37 am
More hypocrisy from the Southern Gentlemen- there was an unwritten “rule” of war in those days that you didn’t shoot at officers by design. Confederate commanders, by contrast, encouraged their snipers and skirmishers to pick off officers.
AH SAY, SUH, HOW RUDE!!!
on October 13th, 2011 at 1:47 pm
Isn’t it funny how the same people who are constantly telling black Americans to “get over” the injustice of segregation etc. are weeping over the Civil War as though it happened yesterday?
I’d call it a double standard, but that’s redundant when you’re talking about racists.
on October 19th, 2011 at 11:00 pm
“The Civil War has been over for a very long time, the south lost, it is time to get over it,” says one of our commentators consolidating the views of the others here that cannot understand the Southern heritage.
So try this:
Slavery has been over for a very long time, the slaves were freed. It is time to get over it.
Now do you get it?
on October 20th, 2011 at 10:31 am
Yes, Dick, we get it, but apparently you don’t.
The slaves “were freed” despite the strenuous efforts of your Southern forebears to prevent that from happening. And what they “were freed” into was a life of oppression and poverty, courtesy of the same Southerners who fought to keep them enslaved, along with those descendants of theirs who apparently were/are incapable of real self-examination or learning from mistakes. That’s “the Southern heritage” that the League of the South represents.
on November 2nd, 2011 at 8:50 pm
It’s always interesting to hear the justifications of both sides for positions taken by their forefathers and — on both sides — in need of moral justification which can never be ample to the crimes committed.
Lincoln declared his aim was to preserve the Union, and not to end slavery. That’s a fact. He later said that, in the end, the War was about slavery. Also a fact. And when he signed the Emancipation Decree, it applied only to slaves in the Confederate states. Slavery remained lawful in all slave states remaining within the Union until the Thirteenth Amendment was passed, after the War ended. The Emancipation Proclamation was no more than an admitted attempt to disrupt the Southern economy. Nothing to do with moral scruples about slavery. Obviously.
As to racism providing the fundamental basis for slavery, it’s difficult to carry that argument to perfection, given numerous black slave-holders (notably in South Carolina, the first state to leave the Union down in the true Deep South). Blacks in the South were not inevitably slaves, and in some slave states like Maryland and Delaware, more blacks were freemen than slave.
If Southerners object to entirely “letting it go”, this is in no small part because those who claim they don’t “get it” continue to recite their favoured (and often mythical) historical narrative which swaddles them in latter-day comfort with their own ignorant prejudices.
If there is anything most Southerners — black and white — uniformly despise, it is hypocrisy. And there can be no greater hypocrisy than touting the principle of consent of the governed as the foundation of legitimate government while moving heaven and earth to deny it in practice.
And for those Americans who cheer the 4th of July with no mental reservation, they would do well to remember slavery continued in North America after 1833 ONLY because we were no longer subject to British rule. Else there would have never been any basis (we are now told) for the bloodiest war in our history that ended in destruction of half the nation to “save” it. Only a sociopath could regard that outcome with pride rather than shame.
on November 13th, 2011 at 12:57 am
Tancred, both of the slave states you cite as having more freemen than slaves were UNION states. The only other slave state in the Union was my native Missouri, and to be fair, we had been fighting our own very bloody Civil War which was also about slavery for nearly a decade prior to the outbreak of war on the national scale. Not exactly apples-to-apples with the tranquil lands below the MC line where slavery was the everyday way of life. And our Civil War legacy sticks with us-our capital, Jefferson city, which was a confederate bastion, still refuses to grant predominately Black St. Louis (my city and a unionist bastion even before the emergence of the present diversity) control over our own police department. For the record, I am a male WASfP (White anglo Saxon former Protestant) who was raised in a largely Black neighborhood, and I have now opted to head for… the Industrial north! I presently live in Beloit, Wisconsin’s second most diverse city, with a beautiful college, a beautiful river, a powerful history, and the nation’s only lesbian member of Congress (soon to be Senator). Only thing that could make me happier would be for my fiance not to live quite so far away, but, you know… Can’t have everything. My point is, what some racists apparently call “the black undertow”-large, cold cities swarming with people of other nationalities, are what I generally think of as a dream home. Are there problems? Yes, largely due to the lack of a societal devotion to economic justice, and a lack of candor in addressing our past. If we want to get serious about addressing crime rates, we need to address poverty first, as well as racism in the machinery of the state.
As to putting a stars-and-bars on a vehicle, I find it somewhat offensive but more than that it is historically inaccurate! If you want to revel in the fact that the state of Texas controls all the textbooks published in the nation, and glorify a system of racial oppression and state-sponsored brutality, that’s your prerogative I suppose, but for your evil racist God’s sake use the correct flag! The stars and bars was NOT the official flag of the confederacy-it was a battle standard developed after the confederate military learned that the official flag that their government, in a predictably conservative lack of artistic creativity, had designed was practically indistinguishable from the American Flag on a smoky battlefield. Use your actual flag, unless you’re afraid that your racist friends won’t be able to recognize it any easier now than they could in the 1860s:)