Hatewatch Tweets
Hatewatch is managed by the staff of the Intelligence Report, an investigative magazine published by the Alabama-based civil rights group Southern Poverty Law Center.
California on Verge of Banning ‘Ex-Gay’ Therapy for Minors
The California state Senate approved legislation Wednesday that would prohibit “ex-gay” therapy for people under 18. If passed by the Assembly and signed into law by Gov. Jerry Brown, California will become the first state to protect LGBT people from potential harm caused by the therapy promoted by anti-LGBT activists.
Ex-gay therapy, also known as “reparative” or “conversion” therapy, purports to help turn LGBT people straight. The bill’s primary sponsor, Democratic Sen. Ted Lieu, said he is seeking the ban because he believes it is harmful and has led some to commit suicide. “The entire medical community is opposed to these phony therapies,” he said in a statement just after the bill passed. “Everyone agrees that this quackery needs to stop.”
The bill establishes that any mental health practitioner consulted to eliminate emotional and sexual feelings or desires for people of the same sex must first obtain informed consent from the patient prior. A minor would not be able to provide consent for ex-gay therapy, regardless of the desires of the minor’s parents. Under the bill, “informed consent” consists of a number of disclosures provided to the patient by the mental health practitioner to make the patient more aware of benefits, harms and alternatives to sexual orientation therapy.
Ex-gay therapy has been widely discredited by the scientific community. In 2006, the American Psychological Association (APA) stated, “There is simply no sufficiently scientifically sound evidence that sexual orientation can be changed.” In a 2009 resolution and accompanying report, the APA issued its most comprehensive repudiation to date of reparative therapy, saying that no solid evidence exists to support the idea that sexual orientation can change and that some research suggested that efforts to produce that change could be harmful.
In spite of that, and in spite of an American public that has grown increasingly supportive of LGBT people, a small group of therapists, often allied with conservative religious groups or individuals, continues to tout ex-gay therapy as a way to “free” oneself from “homosexual urges.” The preeminent group in support of reparative therapy is the National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality (NARTH), which claims that no one is born gay and that homosexual orientation can be changed. At the heart of that argument lies the belief that homosexuality is a “deviation” from normal sexual development and can thus be treated as a mental disorder. Many groups that oppose LGBT rights use these arguments to depict LGBT people as mentally ill and to discredit them and their supporters.
Those views are on increasingly shaky ground, more so in the wake of the repudiation of a 2001 study that has long been used by ex-gay therapy proponents and anti-gay groups as “proof” that sexual orientation can change. Dr. Robert Spitzer, the study’s author, had claimed that some “highly motivated” individuals could change their sexual orientation. He recently repudiated his own study and apologized to the LGBT community. The study had long been criticized for suspect methodology and design. Spitzer used no control group and relied on the self-reports of people referred to him by Joseph Nicolosi, a therapist affiliated with NARTH.
“I was quite wrong in the conclusions that I made from this study,” Spitzer said in an exclusive interview released Wednesday by Truth Wins Out, a group that tracks anti-gay activity and the ex-gay therapy industry. “The study does not provide evidence, really, that gays can change.”
Spitzer added, “If people can recognize that being a homosexual is something that cannot be changed and that efforts to change are going to be disappointing and can be harmful, if that can be more widely known that would be very good.”
He also expressed disappointment that groups like Parents and Friends of Ex-Gays (PFOX) and Focus on the Family have refused to stop showing a video that features Spitzer discussing his study long before he repudiated it. In the interview with Truth Wins Out, he also calls on NARTH and the American College of Pediatricians (a small, anti-gay group that split from the American Academy of Pediatrics) and others to stop using the video, but didn’t seem to believe they would. “The people who are pushing the ‘ex-gay’ idea are so full of hatred for homosexuality,” he said, “that I don’t think they can respond in an ethical way.”
on May 31st, 2012 at 12:53 pm
Mazel tov!!!
on May 31st, 2012 at 1:04 pm
There are probably a certain number of apparent “cures” that are actually bisexual people who have decided to suppress one aspect of their bisexuality. Embryos have the rudiments of both sexes and normally one becomes predominant by birth; one does not actually understand what “boy” or “girl” means until much later, and frankly, a lot of us have gotten gray-haired while trying to figure out “man” and “woman”. A teenager in therapy is going to be dealing with these issues as well as others, but the last thing any youngster needs is brainwashing while trying to sort it out.
on May 31st, 2012 at 2:01 pm
Banning or restricting ex-gay therapy for minors is like bolting the barn door after the horse has fled. They will already have experienced much mental damage years before – from being raised religious.
Or do you think indoctrinating (and I don’t use that word lightly) children to believe the in the great Sky Daddy who has worse morals than a genocidal maniac hasn’t badly damaged them already?
on May 31st, 2012 at 2:40 pm
I happen to be bisexual. I’ve known since I was 13. I also happen to be engaged to a woman whom I love very much, and with whom I intend to spend my life. You wouldn’t know I identify as bi, but that’s just because I happened to fall in love with a woman. My orientation didn’t change. Should (Darwin forbid) she decide to get rid of me, I’d still be the same way. Anyone who tries to get people to change how they experience the most personal of intimacies should be publicly denounced as a bigot and a fraud.
on May 31st, 2012 at 3:01 pm
I recommend people watch the interview with Spitzer. Seems like a nice old man.
The only problem is, and I think he has forgotten this, is that the study _did_not_ claim to have shown that homosexuals can change orientation. The study has always been _misused_ by the homophobic community.
The criticisms of this study are not substantive, and so I doubt that it will be officially retracted. Once you realize that the study did not claim to have proven that repairative therapy works, there are no real problems with the work.
In any case, I don’t think the putative ban in CA will have any effect. Essentially 100% of repairative therapists work in a religious context. They will simply rebrand as religious counselors and carry on.
on May 31st, 2012 at 3:10 pm
As a pre-teen in a small farming town in Tennessee, I knew that I was different from other boys. Once, during our annual county fair, I was drawn to a young trapeeze performer…to the extent of following him all over the fairgrounds. I would be first in the front row when the performance started and was the last one to leave. It took me some years to realize that I was different, but when I did, it was as if I were re-born! I can’t imagine being different from what I am now. We had no witch-doctors in my hometown…a lot of hypocrites – but no witch- doctors. Guess I was lucky!!
on May 31st, 2012 at 3:22 pm
Clay, I don’t doubt you for a minute. Yet there, on the brink of puberty, it can be difficult to sort out the difference between hero-worship and sexual attraction; they can even co-exist. You were wise to wait a few years to decide; fortunate to have the courage to do so.
on May 31st, 2012 at 6:36 pm
Notice how SPLC seems to hate heterosexuality. Also notice how they will not use the APA Report reference. Most unprofessional.
Most telling is that The American Psychological Association Report has stated in 2009, “Research on harm from [Sexual Orientation Change Efforts] SOCE is limited, and some of the research that exists suffers from methodological limitations that make broad and definitive conclusions difficult”
Another point is The American Psychological Association has also stated in the 2009 report that affirmative approaches [homosexual affirming therapy] have “not been evaluated for safety and efficacy”.
American Psychological Association’s publication of Appropriate Therapeutic Responses to Sexual Orientation (APA, 2009). page, 67 http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbt/res.....sponse.pdf
American Psychological Association’s publication of Appropriate Therapeutic Responses to Sexual Orientation (APA, 2009). page 91 http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbt/res.....sponse.pdf
on May 31st, 2012 at 7:03 pm
More tyranny from California. No other opinions allowed in this state.
on June 1st, 2012 at 8:22 am
We are talking about not mindfucking kids (peace, moderators)! People over eighteen can seek any kind of therapy they want to. As for hating heterosexuality, I seem to recall that when I was younger, I quite adored it, and I daresay most of those here who are under sixty-five still do (it is rumored to be liked by some older than that, too, but I rather hung up the red shoes and started writing novels some years back)
on June 1st, 2012 at 12:36 pm
Evelyn Schlatter,
I don’t know how they’re going to enforce this, but its great to see that there are a lot of people who see the “gay to straight therapy” for what it really is.
on June 1st, 2012 at 2:28 pm
This is a weird comment section.
on June 1st, 2012 at 6:44 pm
Ian,
You said it.
on June 2nd, 2012 at 12:21 pm
Dan Zabetakis,
The criticisms of the study are indeed substantive, because regardless of what Spitzer wanted to claim his study showed, methodological flaws are still everywhere. Spitzer lumped multiple kinds of therapy together, made use of a sample entirely provided by the organizations offering ex-gay therapy, preformed only single phone interviews with no followup, had nothing resembling a control group, the list goes on and on.
Drawing any conclusions from the study would have been irresponsible, and a study with such shoddy methods should never have been published in the first place.
The study was rejected by the American Journal of Psychiatry, and was published by the Archives of Sexual Behavior because Kenneth Zucker wanted his journal to deal with controversial issues, with Zucker ignoring the fact that 2/3rds of its peer reviewers were critical of its methods and conclusions.
on June 4th, 2012 at 5:24 pm
RL,
Yeah, yeah, we went through this before. As I said at the time if you had read the paper you would know that Spitzer did not conclude that he had demonstrated the efficacy of repairative therapy, that the sample was not provided by therapy organizations, that there was no control because this was not an experimental study, etc etc.
The study simply asked a series of standardized questions to a group of people who claimed to have been helped by repairative therapy. This report remains valuable because it is the only information we have on these people.
The paper took full cognizance of the fact that the respondents may lie or (to quote the paper) “construct elaborate self-deception narratives”.
But then it is easier to denounce the author for ideological impurity, isn’t it?
DanZ
on June 5th, 2012 at 2:45 am
Reparative Therapy is a large oxymoron, as you can’t repair something that ain’t broke. Telling kids they can be converted is like telling them they can fly if they put on a Superman costume and jump off the roof.
on June 5th, 2012 at 9:01 am
Dan, the paper does *not* take cognizence of the probability that many of the “repaired” were bisexuals who had simply learned, or decided, to repress one aspect of their bisexuality. Someone whose orientation is wholly monosexual could no more bring themselves to lust for a member of the unpreferred sex than they could to crave sex with a balloon.
on June 5th, 2012 at 12:30 pm
Reynardine,
1) Why are you ragging on the Balloon Fetishist Society?
2) Like RL, you wouldn’t such make comments about what the paper says and doesn’t say if you had it. OTOH, I have the paper in front of me.
Figure 1 (PRE and POST frequency of 20-point intervals of the Sexual Attraction Scale) clearly shows that the majority of respondents were not bisexual. The scale goes from 0 (only opposite sex attraction) to 100 (only same sex attraction). Just looking at the men, the chart shows that 88% rated themselves as 80-100 on the scale, meaning mono-homosexual. Only 12% rated as 60-79, and none were lower.
So you see, the study clearly shows that the majority did not identify as bisexual. The respondents may have been lying or deluded, but there is no way to determine sexual attraction other than by asking.
The study provides valuable information about these people who claimed to have been helped. It cannot be rejected for political reasons.
on June 5th, 2012 at 1:56 pm
Dan, I would not undergo “reparative therapy” to help me learn to like a sawdust diet, because I know I’m not a termite. No man would seek “reparative therapy” unless he had at least some inkling of attraction to women. However, an adult is free to seek anything they choose. The point of this law and this article is that “reparative therapy” should not be forced on kids “for their own good”. Let us not confuse these issues.
on June 6th, 2012 at 10:22 pm
“The point of this law and this article is that “reparative therapy” should not be forced on kids “for their own good”. Let us not confuse these issues.”
As I said above, this won’t be successful since these therapists will simply call themselves religious counselors and so remain above the law.
“No man would seek “reparative therapy” unless he had at least some inkling of attraction to women. ”
There you go again. The Spitzer paper shows that 90+% of the respondents said religion is very or extremely important to them. So we have the case where a certain number of people recognize themselves as homosexuals and yet have a sincere religious belief that homosexuality is wrong. Thus they are highly motivated to modify their own sexual attractions.
Now, I don’t agree with their religious views, but they are entitled to them.
And there remains no legal means in the US to prevent religious indoctrination of children.
on June 7th, 2012 at 9:59 am
Dan, there are no legal means to prevent religious indoctrination, but there are legal means to prevent the abuse of children under the cloak of religion, and it has been done.
Please do not use the phrase, “there you go again” unless you want me to attribute to you the vicious glibness of a senilely mendacious Ronald Reagan.
on June 7th, 2012 at 11:30 am
R:
You win +2 Internets for recognizing the Reagan quote…
on June 7th, 2012 at 12:14 pm
To Dan — I must disagree — it will have substantive effect – that is why NARTH has fought it so hard. It really is religious – and if they want to rebrand as religious, that’s fine — BUT at this point they present it as an accepted psychological possibility and admitting its entirely faith based has two effects:
1. It eliminates it’s appeal to parents who are NOT religious – which is at least 10%.
2. It reminds those who are forced to undergo it that it is strictly another manifestation of chruches that many of them have already rejected in their hearts due to the churches hatred. This is particularly true as more and more pro-gay religious groups become more and more obvious and “out.”
Will it save everybody? No, will it help? Yes. If ONE KID ends up NOT killing himself because of this bill – its worth it.
As for those who want to excoriate CA for doing the right thing — let me note the following: I am sorry, but I’m pretty sure none of you have buried or helped bury a gay kid who killed themselves due to family or religious pressure. It is a terrible experience, take it from me and if you honestly think its better for those kids to hate themselves enough to often die – then it is YOU, not THEY that need (real) professional help – I suggest you seek it immediately, and if that means abandoning long held religious beliefs, do it — you will have a much happier life in the long term.
Reynolds Jones
on June 7th, 2012 at 1:02 pm
Same old cr*p from the “Good Christians”, who are really about as ignorant as a stone.
(1) Orientation is nearly impossible to change. Unlike the bullsh*t “research” (any social scientist would have multiple problems with it), there is good peer-reviewed work that supports that claim.
(2) LGBT people aren’t hedonistic, and many (most of my LGBT friends) are in permanent long-term relationships that they want to continue. In some areas they have to keep those relationships hidden because of the hatred from the “Good Christians”. They can’t express their affection for each other because of the “Good Christians” (who have even “burned out” lesbian and gay couples – torched their homes).
(3) LGBT people are PEOPLE, just as “Good Christians” are. The only difference is their orientation. Some of them are REAL Christians, and they show the reality of it (kindness, acceptance of the Other, dedication to God, you name it). Others, well, sadly some of my friends have been driven from Christ and the church by the hatred they’ve received.
(4) The one-man, one-woman household throughout history was very much a minority, and even today it still is. Marriage takes many different forms, including the extremely rare for-procreation-only form in cultures where homosexuality is the norm (they’re also marked by extreme hostility between the sexes). All of those forms of marriage work, in part because they’re appropriate for their culture. The norm is one man – more than one woman. It’s not unusual to find women-women and man-man marriages around the world, except where “Good Christians” have infected the people and pushed their idea of marriage on people. You may even find the rare many men – one woman form of marriage if you look!
(5) Historically, the Roman Catholic church used to have a ceremony for blessing same-sex relationships. It ended about the time of the start of the Black Plague.
(6) There are only five (count them, FIVE) sentences in the whole Bible that are supposedly against homosexuality. Experts in the language of the Bible say that they’re mistranslated, and even to them difficult to translate. The closest they can get to an accurate understanding is to not use a young male ritual prostitute, because it is demeaning to them.
(7) Connected to #6: There are thousands of sentences of scripture denouncing the rich and how they treat the poor, or telling them that they must practice economic justice. I find it offensive that the people who fuss about gay marriage almost always ignore the other scriptures that show the real cause of poverty and misery: THE RICH.
(8) The understanding of sexuality in Biblical times is nothing like today, and all of the Bible pounders seem to not begin to grasp that idea… that the people in the days of the Bible don’t think like they do AT ALL.
The sad thing is that the “Good Christians” have been blinded by the hate they’ve been programmed with, and don’t see that they’ve been manipulated into ignoring the way they’re being used.
on June 7th, 2012 at 1:38 pm
Dan, I was watching when the old windbag said it. There was no internet.
Polyandrous marriages occure mostly along the spine of the Himalayas, where it takes up to eight men working the land to support a woman and her children. In such societies, female newborns are left outside for a night and a day; in winter, especially, only the toughest survive, and are deemed mothers of a strong next generation. Inheritance, if memory serves me, is matrilineal, even though the husbands are usually brothers and social fatherhood is conferred on them in order of birth. In most parts of the world, hunting and war caused males to be fewer, and polygyny was more common. But the earliest forms of “marriage” seem simply to have been an exchange of boys between social groups, since, long before the physical cause of paternity was understood, it was observed that coupling among the closely related correlated somehow with abnormal births.
Strongly polygynous societies have evidently led to lesbian liasons being common in large harems. The harems of the Ottoman Sultan, for example, received all their salads shredded, lest the presence of a whole carrot, parsnip, cucumber, or long beet or radish incite…but here I leave the tale which Turoldus set down.
on June 7th, 2012 at 5:20 pm
Walkaway, that was a brilliant post. Perhaps the best best short-form denunciation of the anti-gay movement yet.
Though I must take umbrage with one of your statements: you claim procuring young male ritual prostitutes is demeaning. I must disagree. Every young male ritual prostitute I’ve engaged with has answered, after I invariably question whether it was good for them, that it was empowering. That I am only twenty-five may make things less awkward.
HA!
on June 7th, 2012 at 5:24 pm
Rey,
If what you wrote came from Turoldus, I really need to bone up (HA HA!) on my Chanson de Roland
(Also, I only found out who Turoldus is due to Google. I like to think I’m smart. But I’m not THAT smart.)
on June 7th, 2012 at 6:48 pm
This is a step in the right direction.
on June 8th, 2012 at 12:06 pm
Aron, it didn’t. The Chanson de Roland ended with the phrase:
Ici faut la geste ke Turold declinet
whose sense is ambiguous as this translation:
Here the tale ceases that Turoldus set down
so we don’t know if Turold wrote it or copied it, or whether it ended there or there was more that got lost. But nothing about the Ottoman harem, which was some centuries in the future. My information on shredded salads came from Robert Burton’s “Anatomy of Melancholy”.
on June 8th, 2012 at 12:09 pm
You know, you only hear the more fanatic heteroprudes ranting about Sodom these days, maybe because you can now treat Gomorrah with penicillin.
on June 8th, 2012 at 3:09 pm
If I think about it, when I visited my Bulgarian relatives, they were still quite fond of grated salads, but by the look of the young men around there, it was not to forestall desperation-driven vegetropic paraphilias.
on June 9th, 2012 at 6:19 pm
Of all the sick ideas coming out of our judicial system, this really takes the cake. Ex-Gay therapy, as if Gay people are sick, or gay is a disease. One thing so wonderful that Gays donate to this country is the fact that they can take hold of the orphaned or foster children that’s plaguing our so called religious system of “to be fruitful & multiply.” Right now there are too many children that have no homes. The Gay marriages resolves this problem. Instead of condemning Gay’s for being sick, we should see them for what they truly are, ROLL MODELS
on June 10th, 2012 at 9:02 pm
Tobias, I hope you meant rôle models.
on June 11th, 2012 at 3:47 pm
Posting here after over a month absence as what’s said is here is predictable. I see Aron has posted as has Reynardine, Richard L. Other predictable posters are Ruslan Amirkhanov, Karen the old tired lesbian, Ellen Meyers, etc. who repeat the same pro-homosexual/lesbian rubbish. Now here’s my rerun. Yes, repair therapy to treat gayism/lesbianism has high failure rates as does repair therapy to treat drug junkyism. You know I think gay/lesbian sexual behaviors by adults is comparable to crack junkyism as gay/lesbian sexual conduct is useless & worthless. Even if gay/lesbian sexual orientation doesn’t change, it’s best to impose celibacy on them. They should as I’ve said before, make it a crime to do sex change mutilations as those surgeries are useless.
But with this bill, it’s best to treat gayism/lesbianism when they’re minors just as it’s best to treat drug junkyism when some1 is a minor. If Ted W. Lieu is going to forbid repair therapy for minors who are gay/lesbian, then he may as well forbid repair therapy to treat minors who are crack junkies because again, repair therapy to treat drug junkyism often results in failure.
Gayism/lesbianism activities are again useless & defeat the idea of what sex is supposed to be-penis/vaginal sex between man & woman. Homosexual/lesbian conduct is inferior, useless & again comparable to drug junkyism. You know my view that after a woman has hit menopause, it’s best for the couple to either become celibate or for the man to find a younger woman to do it with including pay for sex as former Italian PM Silvio Berlusconi did because a woman is sexually totalled after she hits menopause. It’s like if 1 has a VW Jetta that gets totalled in a wreck, you look for a new car or use other transportation to get around. If a woman has become menopausal either because of nature (old age) or disease, then she is sexually totalled & it’s time for the man to find a younger woman to have sex with or he can become celibate. That’s my view with sex as you know because sex is supposed to be mainly about the woman pleasuring the man with viceversa incidental. Homosexuality & lesbianism are both inferior & defeat idea of what sex is supposed to be & this bill would prevent treating gayism/lesbianism when it’s best to try to prevent/cure homosexuality-in youth. Finally sex abuse esp. homosexual rape in youth is major cause of homosexuality. That’s my rerun.
on June 11th, 2012 at 9:08 pm
I spoke too soon.
on June 12th, 2012 at 3:30 am
Could Funinsnot be a Poe? This is beyond caricature.
on June 12th, 2012 at 5:08 am
If Aron is reading this something more because when MW Shepard & Harvey B. Milk were wrote about in past by me, he was hostile & said he would end communication-yet still did so afterwards. Aron, I wrote as known about MW Shepard on other blogs incl. that of bigislandchronicle.com where an ex Wyoming reporter who covered the 1999 murder trial & who now lives in Hawaii has discussed this case on her blog.
As I said in another post, when I commented on her blog about the ugly truths of MW Shepard BEFORE October 1998 such as MW Shepard being a drunkard junky who mixed Ecstasy with anti-depressant pills he took for PTSD; MW Shepard choosing U of Wyoming of all the colleges he could get into but then put down Laramie & the college; MW Shepard in August 1998 committing assault&battery on Cody bartender & then the next day falsely accusing the bartender of homosexual gang rape-MW Shepard’s excuse was that he was drunk & PTSD with him ‘dropping’ charge when medical tests disproved him-actually it’s the cops/prosecutors who pursue or drop a charge not the victim-the cops should’ve arrested him for assault&battery + falsely reporting crime but for whatever reason didn’t do so as maybe they believe MW Shepard being decked was punishment enough; MW Shepard being described by his own friends as moody, obnoxious & self-centered. When I wrote these truths, the ex reporter & owner @ bigislandchronicle got hostile-she didn’t dispute what I said, she got mad that I said it. Well since she is a reporter who covered the case, then she has no right to complain when her readers come up with news she mostly left out because she didn’t like the truth.
Aron, MW Shepard has become a religion as I’ve said for gay/lesbian groups. For this reason, it’s just that he face the same scrutiny as the 2 men who killed him. The media wrote the truths about the 2 killers but they gave minor talk to the ugly truths about MW Shepard because MW Shepard was a crime victim. Being a crime victim did not change who MW Shepard was before that October 1998 day. As MW Shepard has become famous (though he did nothing historical), then MW Shepard must face scrutiny as to who he was before that day including the bad truths about him even if gay/lesbian groups dislike it.
on June 12th, 2012 at 11:02 am
For the record, anything I post in future will no longer mention Funinsnow.
I’ve grown tired of his antics.
on June 12th, 2012 at 11:07 am
I am going to ask plainly: why is this person being allowed to defame murder victims?
on June 12th, 2012 at 12:07 pm
He has gone over the top with this one. I spit on his grave, and like all mortals, he will have one.
on June 12th, 2012 at 12:08 pm
Moderators, what moved you to let this defamatory screed be posted?
on June 12th, 2012 at 12:42 pm
If there was reparitve therapy for serial idiocy then I would urge Funi to give it his full consideration.
on June 12th, 2012 at 1:20 pm
Reynardine,
I do not believe this person is a Poe, but rather someone with a mental illness. Most sane people would not e-mail a reporter personally attacking a murder victim and then act surprised when the reporter get upset.
People should keep that in mind in any dealings with him/her.
on June 12th, 2012 at 1:56 pm
Reynardine, Aron & Gregory. Defamation of character is making up something. The SPLC which is an apologist for gay/lesbian sexual behaviors wouldn’t have allowed my posts on Shepard if it was false. Instead of discussing what I wrote about Shepard, posters got angry because I said it incl. the reporter on Big Island Chronicle. BTW, the Big Island Chronicle banned me today because I kept telling the truth about who MW Shepard was. The ex-Wyoming reporter didn’t dispute & she didn’t delete my posts but she got mad & banned me because I told ugly truths about MW Shepard she disliked. But if you want a source on MW Shepard’s history before October 1998, well 1 place where I got information about him being moody, obnoxious & self-centered was this 2002 link http://boards.straightdope.com.....04142.html where a homosexual who tells unpleasant truth about MW Shepard. I’ve quoted what the homosexual W. Panic Stopes wrote here on March 15, 2002 & the link again is here htttp://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-104142.html
“03-15-2002, 06:43 PM W. Panic Snopes Guest Join Date: Mar 2002 Let me first register my stats: I’m a 35-year-old agnostic openly gay male teacher in some order and I feel justified in saying that I don’t have self-loathing baggage, religious or otherwise. That declared, I have to admit that, maddening as the martyrdom of Matthew Shepard by ignorant bar trash was, his martyrdom by the gay community is just as sickening.
BIG DISCLAIMER: I DO NOT IN ANY WAY CONDONE THE KILLING OF MATTHEW SHEPARD OR IN ANY WAY STATE THAT HE DESERVED TO DIE
Matthew Shepard was, by all accounts, a miserable human being in all senses of the term. In addition to suffering from chronic depression he was described by many, including friends, as moody, arrogant, obnoxious, and self-centered. When a straight bartender he liked spurned his advances and cursed him, Matthew responded by charging him with attempted rape (not a rumor, but public record; in his “defense”, he later dropped the charges). He chose the University of Wyoming out of all schools he could get into yet is said to have continually denigrated both town and gown (you all know the type), and his past seems to have leant towards the promiscuous………Matthew Shepard is the totem pole for everything from pro-hate crime legislation factions to all manner of tolerance organizations, the kid that few liked becoming overnight just short of “a god in Colchester”. ”
As you see, the person who wrote that about MW Shepard was a gay teacher, it’s not just us straights like who tell the ugly truths about MW Shepard’s anti-social conduct. The reporter @ Big Island Chronicle got mad when I raised these facts. She banned me & Ok, it’s her site & she can decide who she wants commenting. But as a reporter, the news she covers including MW SHepard is open to critique by the readers. IMO she is held to higher standard because she is a reporter & she has no right to complain when posters come up with truths she hates because she either leaves them out or gives minor talk to. I hope SPLC allows this post & if people including Gregory or Sam Molloy wish to comment, please do so but think seriously about what you’ll say rather than just being hostile.
on June 12th, 2012 at 2:01 pm
This is no longer idiocy. This is malicious defamation of a murder victim, whose survivors may yet be living. That has never been free speech. Cut his props.
on June 12th, 2012 at 3:24 pm
Reynardine, I think in your mind you know what I wrote is the ugly truth of who Methew Wayne Shepard was BEFORE that October 1998 day. SPLC who moderates hasn’t always allowed my posts as they’re hostile to my views. Fact even the SPLC would allow my posts on MW Shepard proves they know it’s true. MW Shepard has become to repeat a famous person whether it’s Laramie Project, etc. so we’ll tell the ugly truths about who he was before that October 1998 day though you’re offended by it & then let the people decide if this person is worth mourning.
on June 12th, 2012 at 3:46 pm
He is mourned. You have no decency. Shut up.
on June 12th, 2012 at 3:57 pm
Moderators, this is well into Chaplinsky v. Rhode Island territory.
on June 12th, 2012 at 4:11 pm
Ian, I didn’t email the reporter as my email was cancelled in April 2012. Rather I wrote about it ON HER BLOG under the name Francisco Madrid in May 2012 & from December 2011 to February 2012 under this ID Funinsnow. She has allowed my posts on her blog but she banned me after I repeated the ugly truths, mentioned the fact that homosexua/lesbian conduct by adults is comparable to drug junkyism by adults & the fact that sex change maimings are useless & should be abolished. She didn’t have the courtesy to give me a yes/no answer when she was asked if she saw anything wrong with the false gang rape accusation MW Shepard made in August 1998 & whether she sees anything wrong with Harvey B. Milk committing homosexual statutory rape on a 16 year old boy in 1964.
on June 12th, 2012 at 4:29 pm
Reynardine, you can’t rebut the ugly truths about Metthew Wayne Shepard that I said about him. I don’t care that you dislike it, it’s the gay/lesbian groups who have martyrised him, so it’s just that the truth be told about who he was before October 1998 & we’re not going away even if you don’t like it.
on June 12th, 2012 at 4:32 pm
Ian, why do they then allow him to post vicious ravings about murder victims? That is a perpetrator’s tactic and a murderer’s tactic. Harvey Milk was at least a public figure in life. Matthew Shepherd was so only by his murder. His personality was not in issue, but even if it were as this coprophagic is portraying it, it would not justify his torture and murder unless Funinsnow’s personality were to justify my doing as much with him. Our time and our space should not be wasted with such mauvais ordure.
on June 12th, 2012 at 5:04 pm
Reynardine, in none of my posts did I justify MW Shepard’s killing-in fact that topic is of minor interest. The fact that Metthew Wayne Shepard falsely accused some1 of a crime he didn’t do makes him bad but my guess is that you don’t see anything wrong with it. To repeat, it’s the gay/lesbian groups who have made him a religion of him, so the bad truths about him whether it’s his Ecstasy use, etc. be told. Metthew Wayne Shepard to repeat had an anti-social personality & his false accusation is what makes him a bad person. Yes, his 2 killers were bad people, but bad people sometimes kill other bad people & MW Shepard was a bad person-being killed didn’t make him good.
on June 12th, 2012 at 5:05 pm
Also Reynardine, personal attacks such as calling me a coprohagic is typical when you don’t have rebuttal. You don’t scare us & we can stand up to you. It’s cowardly on your part to write threats against others behind a computer screen.
on June 12th, 2012 at 5:27 pm
Funi, the fact that the moderators allow you to spew your bile in no way means that they either endorse, agree or validate your ugly hatred. If that were the case, then every post by Jason Smith would carry their imprimatur.
Rey is correct. You’ve strayed from garden variety idiocy into more malicious territory. I am done with you. Have a nice life, as you seem to be a very unhappy and confused individual.
on June 13th, 2012 at 8:49 am
Fun, who is this “we”? You got a mouse in your pocket? It must be a coprophagic pervert, too.
I am “coward” for hiding behind a computer screen? I note you never use your right name. Publish that and your address as well, and then we’ll talk.
on June 13th, 2012 at 9:35 am
Reynardine, I looked up coprohagia in the Internet dictionary. That means some1 who eats faeces or turds, so what you wrote calling me coprohagic is false & ad hominem. Also we as I said refer to people like me, Mission America’s Linda P. Harvey, Dr. Paul Drummond Cameron, etc. who oppose gay/lesbian conduct & those who oppose sex changes. The SPLC, you & others can launch personal attacks on us, but we’ll tell the truth & we we’re not scared of personal attacks you throw @ us behind the computer screen.
Also Reynardine, we don’t have to use our real names when we post here. It’s cowardly for you to make ad hominems behind a computer screen & you like most people who post here are anonymous. Point is that neither you, Gregory, Aron or any1 else who got hostile to me when I told the truth about who MW Shepard was before October 1998 day tried to rebut my findings but got mad that I said it. The smart thing for you to do would be to investigate what I wrote including the link I provided & then see if I was right or wrong. But you didn’t do that-you just went into personal attacks when I said things that you didn’t like.
on June 13th, 2012 at 11:05 am
Funi,
You have yet to provide a shred of credible documentary evidence for your assertions. Searches based on your claims turn up negative results or, as one would expect, results to the contrary. You have been told this before and it is unreasonable for you to demand the same debunking every time you repeat these ridiculous claims.
Also, the fact that you were banned elsewhere hardly makes you a martyr for the truth. It just means that the moderators here are exercising more patience than most. With that, I have wasted more time on you than you warrant and will leave it to Reynardine to find the appropriate Latin sobriquet for your persistent jackassery.
on June 13th, 2012 at 12:47 pm
Gregory, here are other sources. A Nov. 2004 20/20 show repeated the old news about MW Shepard’s Ecstasy junkyism & him being promiscuous after he believed he had AIDS. ABC (which is pro-homosexual) was condemned for that 20/20 show but most of what was said was old news. Judy Shepard has not denied the truth that 2 months before his death her son made up a story after a bartender decked him, but Judy Shepard makes excuses for her son such as him having PTSD & once medical tests disproved him, he ‘dropped the charge’, when again, it’s the cops & prosecutors who decide to prosecute or drop a case, not the victim. If the Cody cops in August 1998 had arrested Metthew W. Shepard for assault&battery + falsely reporting crime as they had enough proof for a jury to have convicted him, his October 1998 killing by 2 men may have been avoided, because he shouldn’t have been in Laramie that day-he should’ve been in a Cody jail, especially given the fact MW Shepard put down Laramie & the U of Wyoming.
Gregory, while only you know what is in your mind I think you know what I said was the ugly truth. The journalist @ Big Island Chronicle did not delete my posts on Shepard when I discussed who MW Shepard was before October 1998 & she again didn’t dispute what I wrote-she got offended that readers tell the ugly truths. It’s hard to get neutral journalism when gay bashings are written about in the press. If a newspaper were to tell the ugly truths about a gay bashing victim as I did with MW Shepard, that newspaper’s advertisers can get boycotts from gay/lesbian groups & if a newspaper loses sponsors, then they lose money. Well with the Internet, we can and will tell the ugly truths about ‘gay bashing’ victims be it MW Shepard & Harvey B. Milk if we find this & there’s nothing the mainstream media can do to stop us. I know I’ve gotten away from the topic but I’ll end this post with a rerun of Ted W. Lieu. If Ted W. Lieu is going to write laws to forbid repair therapy for minors who do gay/lesbian conduct, then he may as well write laws which forbid repair therapy for minors who are drug junkies. You know my view that gay/lesbian sexual behaviors are comparable to drug junkyism.
on June 13th, 2012 at 2:27 pm
I see I got taken down, Fun, because I described the diet of that mouse in your pocket. Similarly, when I make what you call an ad hominem attack, I am merely describing you. The same might be true if I were to call you a yellow-bellied corpseflogger, but of course I wouldn’t. That would be vulgar, and I’d be letting Gregory down. So I will stick to the classics and call you necrohybristic.
on June 13th, 2012 at 4:32 pm
Reynardine, I don’t have any mice in my house so my pockets are empty. But again, personal attacks that you make shows you don’t have a rebuttal. When people can’t think of a rebuttal, they condemn & get hostile. You’re hostile to me because I tell the truths about who MW Shepard was; I speak about the harms of gay/lesbian conduct; I tell the truth about the harms of sex changes & because I offer rebuttal to Ted W. Lieu. You use ad hominems because you usually don’t get views like mine & when they arise, you get hostile because you don’t know how to reply. That’s an easy way to put it.
on June 14th, 2012 at 11:52 am
For me to use an ad hominem, you would first have to be a man.
on June 15th, 2012 at 5:39 am
Again Reynardine, that wasn’t a rebuttal. Something to this rerun. If 1 sees nothing wrong with gay/lesbian sexual behaviors & if 1 sees nothing wrong with sex change maimings, then you’ll agree with Ted W. Lieu’s law. If however you do see something wrong with homosexual & lesbian sexual behaviors & if you see something wrong with sex change maimings, then you’ll differ with Ted W. Lieu’s law. I to repeat see something wrong with homosexual & lesbian conduct & compare it to drug junkyism by consenter adults & believe that they must make it a crime to do sex change maimings. This is repeat, but this topic depends on how 1 sees gay/lesbian sexual behaviors. In the U.S. & in many nations gay/lesbian sexual behaviors by consenter adults is legal, just as there are nations where drug use by consenter adults is legal.
on June 20th, 2012 at 5:24 pm
funisnow
Do everybody a favour and slit your own throat you malicious, revolting fascist shit.
on June 21st, 2012 at 4:23 am
Boson, that is a vicious personal attack, but you won’t stop me & I’ll tell the truths about who MW Shepard was in the last year of his life before October 1998, the harms of gay/lesbian sexual behaviors & the harms of sex change maimings no matter how much it offends you. Boson, like Reynardine, Gregory, Aron, Ian & others who post here don’t have a rebuttal & vicious personal attacks such as what you did are no surprise because you don’t know how to reply.
on June 21st, 2012 at 4:34 am
Also Boson, what have you been smoking ? Again, when you can’t offer a rebuttal, you get vicious as Boson just did because you don’t know how to reply to opposing views.
on June 22nd, 2012 at 9:25 am
Repeat but regarding Pam Spaulding of Pam’s House Blend. Though she’ll probably deny, it’s my belief Pam Spaulding who is a lesbian hates straight men with straight Christian White men being hated by her the most. Not all lesbians hate straight men, but here’s to repeat why it’s believed by me Pam Spaulding does.
1. In 2006, Pam Spaulding took side Duke woman who falsely accused several straight White Christian men of rape. The Duke woman who made the false accusation was a crack junky with a DUI conviction before Duke case & who since then was convicted of child abuse in 2011 & currently awaiting murder trial. Unsure what Pam Spaulding thinks now, but what I know is that Pam Spaulding took the side of a woman who is a crack junky child abuser because she accused Christian White men of rape which was proven a lie.
2. Pam Spaulding in 2007 (mentioned this before) condemned former MSNBC host Tucker Carlson after Tucker Carlson talked of how he once beat up a gay who was harassing him in the bathroom when Tucker Carlson was a teenager during the Larry Craig scandal. The cops arrested the gay for harassment. Pam Spaulding wrote that Tucker Carlson had ‘masculinity issues’ because Tucker Carlson self-defended. Bathroom is the place to use the toilet & wash up, but Pam Spaulding saw nothing wrong with gays having sex in bathrooms in that she thinks Tucker Carlson should’ve just taken the abuse.
3. Harvey Bernard Milk is some1 who Pam Spaulding idolises. Pam Spaulding sees nothing wrong with Harvey B. Milk committing homosexual statutory rape on 16 year old boy in 1964. Harvey B. Milk was worse than MW Shepard-of course Harvey B. Milk was killed @ 48 thus had more years for his anti-social conduct. If a straight man were having sex with a 16 year old girl, Pam Spaulding would’ve decried him as a statutory rapist as he should be, but the problem is Pam Spaulding thinks statutory rape is OK when it’s homoseuxal.
Pam Spaulding should be honest & just say that she hates straight men, especially if the straight man is White & Christian.
on June 25th, 2012 at 8:38 am
Now he’s arguing with himself. This has gone beyond farcical.
It is just sad.