Hatewatch Tweets
Hatewatch is managed by the staff of the Intelligence Report, an investigative magazine published by the Alabama-based civil rights group Southern Poverty Law Center.
Armed with Pig’s Head, Christians Confront Michigan Muslims
Muslims in Dearborn, Mich., were once again targeted for their beliefs on Friday when a group of protesters calling themselves the “Bible Believers” confronted celebrants at the city’s annual Arab International Festival with a pig’s head on a spike and signs decrying Islam as a false religion, the Detroit Free Press reports.
In addition to the pig’s head – presumably intended to offend observant Muslims, who do not eat pork – Bible Believers reportedly carried signs calling Islam “a religion of blood and murder” and describing the Islamic prophet Muhammad as a “liar,” “false prophet,” “murderer” and “child molesting pervert.”
Dearborn, which has the nation’s highest concentration of Arab-Americans and whose population is one-third Muslim, has in recent years become a favorite destination for anti-Muslim activists seeking the spotlight. Pamela Geller of Stop Islamization of American (SIOA) staged an ersatz “human rights conference” there in April, and Koran-burning pastor Terry Jones, who runs the anti-gay, anti-Muslim Dove World Outreach Center, visited last April to tell a few dozen supporters – and an estimated 600 counter-protestors – that Islam is “of the devil.”
This year marked the Bible Believers’ second appearance at Dearborn’s Arab International Festival. In 2011, several counter-protesters were arrested for throwing water bottles, trash and shoes at the group while its members – bearing signs calling Islam a “religion of murder” and calling on Muslims to “repent” – stood in the festival’s free speech zone. No arrests were made this year, the Dearborn Patch reports, though two festival attendees were detained and cited for disorderly contact.
Bible Believers is headed by Ruben Israel Chavez, a self-described “street preacher” from Los Angeles who runs the website Official Street Preachers, on which he rails against “homo sex,” Mormons, “drunkards,” Mardi Gras, “Pot Smoking Devils,” Billy Graham, and Oprah Winfrey, among others.
On the site, Chavez describes himself and like-minded preachers as God’s mouthpieces and “vessels to the public.” He writes, “When I preach it will offend people and that does not concern me in the lest [sic], for my goal in life, my core reason of why I do what I do, is not to offend a holy God.”
According to his biography, Chavez founded Bible Believers in the 1980s to focus on “confrontational evangelism and home Bible studies.” Today, he says, the group has over 40 chapters nationwide.
on June 18th, 2012 at 2:16 pm
Now…I understand the reason for the insults.
I get it. Some people you cannot have an intelligent conversation with, some people will not listen to reason, some people do not have a good reason for doing the truly stupid things that they do.
I have this to say about Muslims. They are good people. I do not blame them for our wars like some other veterans might.
But they don’t turn the other cheek. Be careful with that.
Dummy.
on June 18th, 2012 at 3:29 pm
I’d like to know what part of the bible he gets this from. Anyone?
on June 18th, 2012 at 4:08 pm
Joseph, I believe it’s the first chapter and third verse from his own Book of Rectum.
About as non-biblical as you can get.
on June 18th, 2012 at 4:11 pm
Do these people even realize that the prohibition of eating pork in Islam came from the Old Testament?
on June 18th, 2012 at 4:12 pm
Joseph, some will turn their facial cheeks, but never the back ones.
It’s true, some of us were kind of rough with you at first, but we’ve had so many of *those* there’s some hypervigilance going on. Not long before, someone who had always been obnoxious decided the best way to get the attention he craved was by defaming a murder victim. He knows we can’t get him, and then this yellowbellied corpseflogger dares to call us cowards.
You’re not one of those. You are civilized and amenable to reason. On the other hand, many have come here with a pretense of reason, only to draw us into a web of their specious logical fallacies. The object is to provoke endlessly and then denounce a final loss of composure as proof of their superior reasoning/our animal natures. As I said, we can’t get them, and that is what motivates them to even the verbal defilement of corpses.
These pig-marchers are no different. Their motive is the same that drove Lord Mosley to stage provocative marches in the Jewish neighborhoods of London before WW II: respond to the provocation, and you’re a subhuman, ignore it, and you’re a coward. Lord Mosley was stopped when some Gentile Cockneys turned out and beat the tar out of him, and when, war having broken, he was thrown into the chokey as a subversive.
Other than that, I only wonder what happened to Chaplinski v. Rhode Island.
on June 18th, 2012 at 4:36 pm
I like the fact that apparently this guy thinks that there are “official street preachers” – because I pretty much thought that anyone could do it.
The favorite I’ve ever seen was the Lyndon LaRouche follower at a Metro station in Arlington Virginia who was yelling something about how Dick Cheney is the son of Satan
on June 18th, 2012 at 4:39 pm
Rey, there are also some branches of the KKK which do similar tactics such as having marches through black neighborhoods – at least when safely behind a line of cops in riot gear.
See also the American Nazi Party’s proposed march through Skokie, Illinois.
The similarity to a child who pulls the fire alarm at school to see what happens should be noted.
on June 18th, 2012 at 4:44 pm
oh and its Chaplinisky v. New Hampshire :)
on June 18th, 2012 at 5:12 pm
” my core reason of why I do what I do, is not to offend a holy God.”
Too late, you already did.
on June 18th, 2012 at 5:27 pm
What do such people think about folks who choose not to eat animal products at all? Do they storm vegetarian stores and PETA events? What about Jews? They don’t eat pork or shellfish – do they throw shrimp at synagogues?
And atheists…we’re surely going to burn in a hell we don’t believe in!
on June 18th, 2012 at 5:49 pm
I don’t see anything Christian about inciting hate and divide among people here in America.
And I don’t see anything intelligent about the approach. There are Baptists that preach hate but we don’t assign that groups philosophy to all Baptist.
Ignorance just likes to group together in large numbers.
on June 18th, 2012 at 5:55 pm
Damn, wrong sqeaky little New England state.
on June 19th, 2012 at 2:32 am
Child molestation? He must be thinking of the Bible, not the Quran.
on June 19th, 2012 at 4:24 am
White pseudo-Christians pretending that hatred is the basis of faith.
on June 19th, 2012 at 8:19 am
I think this is another case of using the Bible to suit ones own means, which makes all Christians look like professional inquisitors. You go from color to religion, then to gender, all based in the Bible according to the prophets of each respective cult. And they’re all cults to a certain degree. Like my grandmother used to say, “he’s doing the dope!”
on June 19th, 2012 at 8:20 am
Well, yes, the Old Testament says that a man can “seal” the betrothal arrangement he made with a toddler’s father by raping the toddler, doesn’t it?
on June 19th, 2012 at 8:24 am
Mary, you have given me a wonderful idea! If I tell these thugs I’m a kosher Jew, can I get them to throw (boiled, peeled) shrimp at me? Or even beef Stroganoff?
on June 19th, 2012 at 8:45 am
I’m rather surprised no one has referenced Lord of the Flies yet. This is just too ripe for satire. (And Mary, I was wondering the exact same thing, regarding Jews. I should note though, that I’m a Jew who loves bacon. Tasty, tasty bacon.)
on June 19th, 2012 at 9:07 am
What, Aron? No boiled, peeled shrimp? With lemon juice and melted butter? Bacon is good, too, though. Maybe we can team up and run a racket…
on June 19th, 2012 at 10:24 am
Yes. There are a lot of things in the Old Testament that are rather detestable. Which is why I don’t call it canon, I call the Law of Moses null/void. Sharia Law as well. You don’t hurt people because a book says it’s cool. I can’t get with that, and I have to believe that is more of the journal / religious zealot diary coming out of it. And what do they do with the books that do not advocate inflicting pain on others? Simple – they just take them out, like the book of Enoch, or better yet, they didn’t add them in at all. Like the Gnostic Gospels.
on June 19th, 2012 at 10:27 am
This whole unfortunate event makes me yearn for the kinder, gentler, moralisiing extremists of my childhood: you know — the ones who devoted their time to anxiously scanning the boys’ and men’s underwear sections of the Sears and Montgomery Wards catalogues, looking for examples of underwear that was too tight and revealing — or even the occasional “pop-out?” We had a neighbor who was absolutely demented on this topic. My mother used to ask us to lie, and say she was out whenever we spotted the loony neighbor, heading for the front door with an example of some new outrage against decency.
Seriously, though, it appears that public hatred has really ramped up over the last few years (which I know SPLC has documented). As other commenters have noted, there are a lot of people out there using the Bible to justify their actions and who are dangerously ignorant about the people they “hate.”
I do wish the media would step up to the plate and seek out commentary from more moderate, knowledgeable sources to provide watchers/readers with more information to inform their own decision-making. Unfortuately, however, the media seems to be shying away from parroting anything other than the most stock of “themes” — even when they are wrong or misleading.
on June 19th, 2012 at 10:30 am
Also, Aron –
I immediately thought of “Lord of the Flies.” I can see this behavior ending up as crazy and violent as in the book — except that there will be no British officer in the end to rescue Ralph.
on June 19th, 2012 at 10:34 am
Hey, and let’s kill women because only a witch would deny sex to her husband, and lets stone the kids, since they’re too weak to lift that bushel of hay, we’ll make more with our new wives who will provide sex on demand.
And let’s go and hate some Muslims, and blacks, and gays, because the Jewish and Muslim parts of the Bible say to do it, but we’re going to say it’s the (New Testament) CHRISTIAN RIGHT OF PASSAGE.
Yea, we’re the real Crusaders, we just don’t listen to that Nazi Pope anymore. Yeah! Good times, good times…
on June 19th, 2012 at 10:49 am
Things like this reinforce my joy in being an Old Believer, therefore perpendicular to — outside of — Abrahamic sibling rivalry. (Abrahamics — Jews, Christians, and Muslims — call us “Pagans” or “Heathens.”)
on June 19th, 2012 at 11:10 am
Rey, I’m actually not much of a seafood guy. And frankly, shrimp give me the heebie-jeebies, what with all of those legs they use to swim. Icky!
on June 19th, 2012 at 11:27 am
Robert, do you mean one of the Russian Old Believers, or something else? Such as Old Religion?
(Yikes! When I cleared my CD burner to make a disk with cover art, I set the Turkish music CD on top of Gasparyan. Excuse me… Smoke is coming out…)
on June 19th, 2012 at 11:27 am
Robert — I am also an Old Believer of close to 40 years of practice, which, I believe, has provided me with a far more holistic view of people and the world without a lot of doctrinal baggage that has historically tended to trip up those involved in “real” religions. The only issue I have is that, considering where I live, and the times in which we live, I have to keep my beliefs pretty much to myself (although many people comment on how great it is that I like nature and am so “in-tune” with it, not realizing that it is integral to my spiritual beliefs) lest I be branded a Satanist or some other label by people who are totally ignorant and now about to listen because they have been so programmed.
on June 19th, 2012 at 11:29 am
Well, Aron, you can take the bacon, and I’ll keep the shrimp. What about the beef Stroganoff?
on June 19th, 2012 at 11:43 am
I deduce you mean the Old Religion. Forgive me- the terminology had me confused.
on June 19th, 2012 at 11:50 am
I wonder what would happen if this group and the Westboro Baptist Church showed up to protest at the same time – would they combine forces or start fighting each other.
Has anyone ever in the history of the world ever had their mind changed by confrontational street theatre designed to offend as many people as possible (which ultimately is what this really is)?
on June 19th, 2012 at 11:50 am
There’s a big difference, besides, Satanists – by default acknowledge God.
I’m an Esoteric Christian, and a Freemason, and I got married by a Justice of the Peace to a Baptist so I’ve been “ex-communicated” from the Chuuch, or at least that’s what I call it since I can participate in communion and confession anymore. Why go to church then right?
My sister is a Wiccan – and a pretty talented claire-voyant if I may say so myself. Incidentally, our daddy did not like our belief systems since he was a traditional Catholic.
What are you gonna do? You do what you feel is right, live a righteous life, teach your children to be good to people, and hope the law of attraction visits good on you as well.
on June 19th, 2012 at 1:50 pm
Joseph and Reynardine –
I happen to be Wiccan — but I don’t typically advertise this to people I don’t know well. I’m glad, Joseph, that you understand that Satanists are just expressing a very negative reaction of Christianity. Wiccans (who also refer to themselves as Old Religionists and Old Believers — although Reynardine, you are right, this can be confused with the Old Believers who split off from the Russian Orthodox Church several hundred years ago over doctrinal issues) don’t buy into the Christian, Jewish, Islamic belief system.
Just to clarify — most of the Pagans I know are not “against” other religions (although we do get a kick out of some of the stuff that Christians have absorbed from older religions, such as Yule, the symbolism surrounding Easter, the concept of resurrection in its various forms). Wicca is a nature-based religion that is heavy into personal spirituality over any fixed doctrine. We view spirituality as a very personal thing. In addition, if you ask Pagans/Wiccans about the whole God and Goddess thing, they may, depending on the day of the week and where they are on their own orientation to the world and spirituality, tell you that, yes, there are multiple Gods and Goddesses, or that the Gods and Goddesses are basically just aspects of the divine whole (meaning one divine entity) that are useful for our finite human brains to interact with for specific purposes (kind of how some people view Saints), or something else entirely.
In other words, our spirituality is multi-layered, which is, I believe true of many other belief systems. (Although what the heck layer the anti-Muslim loonies are operating from obviously has a botulism problem or something.)
Although there are books available on basic concepts, Wiccan and modern Paganism (and yes — they are modern interpretations of the imagined past), Wicca and modern Paganism (or most modern Paganism) is, as I said, decidedly non-doctrinal. It is more of a world-view and a way of relating to nature, other people, and society as a whole — a spirituality system rather than a fixed religion. The Wiccan Rede states, “And you harm none, do what you will.” Also, most Wiccans that I know (and yes, nutty people are attracted to ALL religions, so there are some flamboyantly odd Pagans wandering around) believe in the “Three-fold law,” meaning that whatever one does, comes back to one with three-fold strength. Thus, Wiccans DON’T go around cursing other people–except for the fictional depictions of Witches on TV that make us all roll our eyes.
Incidentally, for those of you who visit the Talk2action.org website (its a link on this page), a fringe Christian non-denominational movement, the New Apostolic Reformation, actually practices a form of very negative sympathetic magick by burning Native artifacts (!!!) and other physical items they associate with “Witchcraft.” They have also done other incredibly negative stuff like praying for the death of Mother Teresa (she is a representative, they think, of the Satanic “Queen of Heaven”), and believe that their prayers caused her death. I don’t know ANY Wiccan who has been involved in the Wiccan path for any length of time that would even consider attempting such a foul act. All of this is so incredibly ironic — these folks are so afraid of magick and curses and spells, and yet they engage in them in incredibly irresponsible ways. The superstition is palpable with this people. (And this statement is coming from someone who does “read the signs” in nature!!!)
After being rather militant about Wicca initially (teenager, you know), I and most other co-religionists I know tend to settle into a desire simply to follow a positive path — and to honor “positive path” beliefs in others, including Christians, Jews, and Muslims. Some of the best conversations I have had on Wicca and Paganism have been with Christian Clergy who attended good Seminaries* and understand the diversity of religious and spiritual thought and practices. (*In other words, not seminaries Street Preacher would have attended, or Bob Jones University, or anything associated with Pat Robertson or New Apostolic Reformation people).
It is highly unfortunate that religion, which can be so uplifting to some, can, in the hands of the zealots, become so very, very damaging. But as the bumper sticker says, “Religion is for people who are afraid of going to Hell; Spirituality is for people who have been there.”
Oh, darn — another overly long post. Sorry — I will do better.
on June 19th, 2012 at 1:53 pm
Erika — perhaps if these groups managed to hit upon some major disagreement over some stupid little thing (like an interpretation of scripture), they would spontaneously combust.
At least that’s what we might hope. (Kidding, just kidding! I’m not cursing anyone. I just wish they would go the heck away and take up building model airplanes or stamp collecting or something else they could obsess about.)
on June 19th, 2012 at 2:45 pm
Coral Sea, we have some of those “Christian” hoodoo types around here. One of their stunts is to leave a smear of Wesson oil and a brick on someone’s property in the belief that this will make “Gahd” afflict the oiled in such a way that they will turn to “Gahd” for salvation. I found such a mess in my drive. I dealt with it. Enough said.
on June 19th, 2012 at 4:01 pm
CoralSea, my mother used to have a bad habit of burning things, peoples things in particular. If funny what you learn about your loved ones when you grow up. My father told me one time, “your mother is a very prayerful woman, but I’m afraid of who she prays too.” But she’s my mom, you know?
on June 19th, 2012 at 4:22 pm
Reynardine — We have a few here, too. They were doing something called “spiritual mapping” or “God walking” or something like that (what they do here is a bit different than what is described on the Talk2Action.org website) several years ago to identify demonic influences in our neighborhood. They zeroed in on my next-door neighbor, I think because their son illustrates graphic novels, and informed them that there were demons on their property.
Funny, they skipped my house, despite the handsome Hecate plaque hanging by the front door (I get a lot of compliments on “that nice ancient Greek art). Hecate was the Greek Goddess of witches among other things.
Anyway, my neighborhood was being invaded last summer by people from a nearby Bible college who wanted to witness to us. Happily, they stopped coming to my door after some wasps built a substantial next near the door. I would see them, standing in the driveway, all concerned and hesitant, but fear would overtake them and they would visit another house. I removed the wasp nest after the first hard freeze, but, thus far, the memory of its existence was managed to deter the Bible college crowd (though not the Mormon, who were from out of town, I guess).
This would all be pretty funny, but I personally worry just what some of these folks might do, now that they are dabbling in “the black arts.” I really don’t want my house burned down!
on June 19th, 2012 at 4:24 pm
I just realized something: are these ‘Bible Believers’ claiming Christianity IS NOT a religion of blood and violence? Because I have about twelve or more Crusades which might say otherwise…
on June 19th, 2012 at 4:29 pm
Joseph — Bummer. What I think is really unfortunate is that this must be a very scary, vengeful world for those who follow “fear-based religions.” But, as you said, she’s your mom, so you have to look past all of that.
BTW — one of my grandmothers belonged to a strange group of people who believed in a pantheon of Gods who lived on Venus except when they were visiting Mt. Shasta. They had a lot of odd prohibitions regarding food and colors. Onions were bad because they made you “sexy” (that’s just what I want — someone to breathe onion in my face during an intimate embrace). Red was also bad because it was the color of sex (these groups tend to harp on sex). Orange was bad because it was the color of the “Liquor Beast.” Green was good because it was the color of money (it was an American cult, founded in Colorado). But she was also a really sweet lady who taught me how to sew, so I always loved her.
on June 19th, 2012 at 7:59 pm
My own little Bulgarian great-auntie was damned peculiar religiously, too, but I can live cheap, rough it, handle heavy loads, make infinite good use of recycled items, propagate plants, and be generally handy because of what she taught me. Her ashes are on my mantel, and if I get a chance, I’ll take them back to Bulgaria. If not, when it’s time for me to be powdered, I’ll have them mixed with mine and put into the Gulf Stream so we can head across the Atlantic together.
on June 19th, 2012 at 9:38 pm
Takes all kinds.
Aron: Although I do not consider myself a bible believer necessarily, I do not remember reading any of the “words in red” advocate violence.
Now what men do in the name of religion…well, I don’t believe any one if better than the other.
“I put no stock in religion. By the word religion I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called the will of god. I have seen too much religion in the eyes of too many murderers. Holiness is in right action, and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves, and goodness.” – Kingdom of Heaven
I love that quote.
on June 20th, 2012 at 9:23 am
Great quote, Joseph. Also, Reynardine, I’m glad you also had a memorable relative. I guess the take away is that we can be tolerant when we have to deal with someone like family (most often, I think with respect and humor and some eye-rolling), and that it would be beneficial if people in general tried to apply that approach to others they meet.
on June 20th, 2012 at 12:58 pm
If the Bible Believers really believe the message of Leviticus, then wouldn’t playing around with a pig’s head be an unclean act? In that regard they could find common ground with those they seek to insult, but the irony would be lost on these goobers.
on June 21st, 2012 at 8:48 am
I’ve never understood their arguments. They still don’t understand the difference between marraige and sex. The bible, either testament, does not condemn gay unions, it condemns gay sex. For that matter, it condemns any sex that is not for the purpose of pro-creation, but says that if you need to have sex, and you can’t be celibate, have sex with your wife. Otherwise it wants you to be celebate.
on June 21st, 2012 at 9:32 am
Joseph, I don’t think I’ve taken the time to both apologize for my earlier tone when discussing your views, and welcome you to the Hatewatch board family. I doubt that I’m the only one here who is genuinely appreciating your candor and level-headedness. Glad to have you aboard, sailor!
on June 21st, 2012 at 11:48 am
Joseph, me too, though I said so before. By now, you’ve seen what we’re contending with, even though for the most part they give us sport.
on June 21st, 2012 at 12:03 pm
There’s nothing like a pigs head on a stick to convince people you mean business,or that the other side is wrong and needs to repent or have a nice BBQ or something…
on June 21st, 2012 at 12:55 pm
Thank you. I appreciate that. And yes, I do see what is to be contended with. And let me tell you…it is truly a sight.
on June 21st, 2012 at 3:07 pm
Okay, what’s with this repeating sarcastic “Bible Reader’s” remarks by editor Leah Nelson? Is Mr. Nelson accusing everyone single Christian of being hateful and ignorant? The truth is, hateful Christians are not Christians and they may believe they are but they’re not. Jesus would never behave racial and hateful toward the Muslim, the way the people in Dearborn, Mich. Did.
Mr. Nelson is only showing his true colors of hate toward the whole population of Christians in America, without being fair and balance. So, don’t be spinning the story Mr. Nelson; whether your Muslim or Christian or Jew, they are good and bad people in all faith.
God is the one who will judge us, not you, Mr. Nelson.
on June 21st, 2012 at 3:43 pm
Pete, you have shown how well you have read the Bible by assuming someone named Leah is “he”.
on June 21st, 2012 at 3:46 pm
Pete, learn to read. She put quotes around ‘Bible Believers.’ Not Bible Readers, you dummy.
And based on what you’ve written, you’re going to be judged pretty harshly.
on June 21st, 2012 at 4:29 pm
Pete –
I agree with you that it is very important not to make snide remarks about “Bible Readers” any more than about “Koran Readers.” It is all too easy when one is dealing with fringe elements, to use language that could appear to be tarring a very large group–including many that in no way agree with the fringe folks (e.g., thinking that all Christians believe Pat Robertson’s insane utterance about how God sent Hurricane Katrina to “punish” New Orleans for the “wickedness” of some of it’s occupants — or maybe for loud music).
However, I find it unfortunate and baffling why devote Christians who don’t hold these beliefs don’t speak out more against those who seek to mis-use the Bible and set themselves up as examples of your religion. Or — I guess I do understand somewhat. Your beliefs have so little to do with what these folks, or the people from the Westboro Baptist Church, or other groups who are just crazy and for whom neither you nor your beliefs are responsible, it’s difficult to even square yourself and your life with the antics of these groups.
Having said this — and this is not aimed at you, specifically — I do find it annoying when ordinary Muslims are criticised and villified for “NOT CONDEMNING TERRORISTS OF THEIR OWN RELIGION WHO DO THINGS IN THE NAME OF THAT RELIGION.” The Muslims I know DO condemn terrorism, but like “normal” Christians, they don’t feel that it is up to them to “lead the charge.” So why should other Americans be angry with them for not mounting huge demonstrations against radical Islam when Christians don’t exactly speak out publicly against radical elements in their own religion?
on June 21st, 2012 at 4:45 pm
Pete,
Cry me a river. Reading comprehension is not just for breakfast anymore. Show me one sentence where the author of this article said that every Christian in this nation were responsible for these self proclaimed Bible Believers?
So what if you consider the article sarcastic? You may consider the Bible to be a sacred text, as many millions do, while I, and many millions more, consider it to be a collection of Bronze and Iron Age fairy tales. You say tomato and I say tomatoe.
on June 21st, 2012 at 4:45 pm
So many whacked-out fringe so-called “Christians,” so little time…
on June 21st, 2012 at 6:23 pm
Pete,
I think you misunderstood this article. No one at the SPLC believes that all Christians interpret the bible as this group does. “Bible Believers” is not a nickname I came up with to be funny; it’s actually what the group calls itself.
To offer a parallel example, we also refer to the Council of Conservative Citizens (CCC) by its official name — but that does not imply that the SPLC thinks most Americans who call themselves “conservative” share the CCC’s racist, hateful views.
I hope this clears things up.
Leah
on June 21st, 2012 at 7:59 pm
Disgusting. Not only do these people harass others because of their religion but also kill innocent pigs to make their point.
on June 21st, 2012 at 8:29 pm
Maybe it was a Beefeaters Boar’s Head celebration and your mis-understanding the message.
on June 21st, 2012 at 8:29 pm
Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire…
on June 21st, 2012 at 9:03 pm
Observant Christians aren’t supposed to eat pork or play football with pig skin- see Leviticus 11:7.
on June 22nd, 2012 at 12:44 am
“What about the beef Stroganoff?”
Me, me please!
on June 22nd, 2012 at 8:38 am
Leviticus is the Old Testament, although Jesus did refer to the Law of Moses, I like Pork. I’ll eat a pig’s buttocks if you can cook it right. Oh, I have (chiterlings & menudo) nevermind.
I have completely turned OFF the old testament as far as living my life. I LIKE PSALMS, I have a verse tattooed on my body. But, according to the Book of Old you can’t get tattoos.
You can’t get tattoos (I’m covered), you can’t eat cereal with mixed grains (love my Cap’n Crunch – Crunch Berries), you can’t eat meat while drinking milk (there goes my cold pepperoni pizza and milk breakfast).
Women can’t wear pants (and I love my wife in jeans), men can’t save their faces (I shave my whole head and face), you can’t wear clothes of mixed fibers (how about those polyester blends huh?)
We could go on, and if we did I would have to:
1) Stone my son for not cleaning his room (UGG);
2) Make my wife quite her job (and who would pay her student loans, huh, huh?);
3) And I would eventually have to sacrifice my dog at some point in my worship (I love my dog – and he loves my kids).
Yeah, I’ll pass.
If you really read the New Book, it says that we, who are not the chosen children of Isreal, are GENTILES, and we don’t have to do all of that.
So I will let the religions who have to listen to that book, do what they gotta do, and I will eat my pork, let my wife work, let my dog live, let my son have his dam dirty room, and let my daughter go to school, and be the first black female president of these United States.
SO BRING ON THE PORK BABY!!!
on June 22nd, 2012 at 11:22 am
Joseph, I’ve gotta second your closing line:
‘BRING ON THE PORK, BABY!’
on June 22nd, 2012 at 2:56 pm
Gee — I’m so glad that nobody mis-read the article as saying “Bible Breeders.” This thread would have completely gone all “Gordian knot” over that.
Have good weekends, folks!
on June 23rd, 2012 at 12:02 pm
Can these people be arrested for a hate crime?
on June 24th, 2012 at 7:32 am
Iran Politics Club
Website For Thinking Iranians
Imam Khomeini’s Teachings
On Sex with Infants & Animals, Ablution, & Women on Period!
Imam Khomeini’s Teachings
On Sex with Infants and Animals, Ablution, and Women during Period!
Compiled by Parvin Darabi and HDF
?Imam Khomeini, The Legacy!
?Islamic Teachings on sex with infants
“A man can have sexual pleasure from a child as young as a baby. However, he should not penetrate. If he penetrates and the child is harmed then he should be responsible for her subsistence all her life. This girl, however would not count as one of his four permanent wives. The man will not be eligible to marry the girl’s sister.”
The complete Persian text of this saying can be found in “Ayatollah Khomeini in Tahrir-ol-Masael, Fourth Edition, Darol Elm, Qom”
The “Prophet” Muhammad married Iysha when she was four (4) years old and consummated the marriage when she was nine (9) years old.
on June 24th, 2012 at 9:01 am
Actually Daniel, Mohammed was betrothed to Aisha(funny how you couldn’t even spell her name) when she was about 6(normal in those times), and married when she was no younger than 15(also married). All the historical evidence points to this.
As for your other nonsense, I don’t expect much from the Iranians, but I’m also skeptical as to your ability to speak and/or read Farsi.
on June 24th, 2012 at 9:03 am
Married her at 4 and consummated at 9. And they call him a prophet? This is a fact isn’t it? That is sick, vile and inhumane and is no less deserving of the same punishment. No wonder you guys don’t believe in God.
on June 24th, 2012 at 9:41 am
Daniel, if you don’t stop it, you’ll go blind.
on June 25th, 2012 at 8:50 am
“Married her at 4 and consummated at 9. And they call him a prophet? This is a fact isn’t it?”
Actually it’s not, as I pointed out several times. But by all means, don’t let historical facts or reality ruin your fantasy world.
on June 25th, 2012 at 9:35 am
If these guys are so worried about child molesters, shouldn’t they be demonstrating outside Sandusky’s prison cell? But, I snarkily digress.
A quick search on Daniel’s reference yields little but the same cut and paste that he deposited here. No source documents. However, using Khomeini to categorize all Islam is a bit like using Fred Phelps to define all Christendom.
I’ve stated my opinion that I think Christianity is a steaming pile of nonsense. I think that Islam belongs on the same heap. When these two groups get into a playground brawl over who has the bigger invisible friend, it can endanger us all.
on June 25th, 2012 at 10:51 am
um, Gregory, Allah and God are one and the same.
on June 25th, 2012 at 10:54 am
and its pretty safe to say that the “Bible Believers” do not really care about child rape and children being married since i’m pretty sure that there are recorded instances in the Old Testament of children being married.
there definitely were such instances recorded in Christian lands – is the minimum legal age for a girl to be married in Louisiana (or was it Mississippi) still 12 or did they finally change it?
on June 25th, 2012 at 11:31 am
Erika,
Try telling that to a fundy christian and a militant shia. I think you missed my point, however. When religious zealots fight one another, everybody in the vicinity is impacted. Even those of us who do not believe in invisible supernatural beings, like God or Allah.
on June 25th, 2012 at 12:28 pm
And I think I should have said fighting over who has the biggest imaginary friend, rather than invisible.
on June 25th, 2012 at 1:03 pm
FUNNY! Fantasy world. I’m laughing all over my chair, I hope I don’t lose my job. No, but seriously….I’m laughing.
You can say my name when you talk about my fantasy world.
There is a reason I put a question mark in my post. I don’t hold “quotes” as fact, however, a grown man, marrying a child, or bethrothed to one for that matter, is DISGUSTING in any language, religion, age, year, date, fact, opinion, God, Allah, prophet, budda, don’t care it’s sick.
You mean to tell me that the Prophet couldn’t find a woman big enough for his ego? How many wives did he have? He needed a girl? Bethrothed at 6? What a man he was – historically or otherwise. Ok – whatever.
I actually did some research when I was on the couch this weekend, and it’s condoned in the Old Book of the Bible. Except they referred to the children as Women Children, i.e. Numbers 31:17 – once again for conquered peoples only.
I like the reference in the New Testament where Jesus says that hurting children, (or causing them to sin) is like tying a noose around your neck and drowning yourself, Matthew 18; 2-6.
But so what, some of you don’t believe in my imaginary friend anyway and I’m just blowing smoke. 9 in 10 Americans believe in a higher power, albiet God, Nature, or other. But you know better right?
on June 25th, 2012 at 5:28 pm
Joseph, this is not about the presence of a universal mind, which does or does not exist, regardless of the wishes of some bickering germs on a damp grain of sand circling a spark. It’s about the merits of the arguments of the bickering germs.
Meanwhile:
The Universe lies,
Its head on its paws,
With starry ticks in its titanic ear…
– Vladimir Mayakovski, “The Cloud in Trousers”
on June 26th, 2012 at 8:48 am
Again Rey…I am humbled by your presence of mind. I retreat, which is not an act of cowardice, but an act of a sane man who takes his medication.
on June 26th, 2012 at 5:46 pm
FYI – I didn’t meant to misspell Buddha, didn’t mean to offend anyone.
on June 26th, 2012 at 9:11 pm
i thought that this was about a group claiming that Islam was not a religion. Not because of who they worshiped but the tenets of their beliefs. This is not necessarily about “God”, its about a huge number of people subscribing to a whole bunch of ungodly acts. Sex with babies; sex with animals: slavery. etc.
on June 27th, 2012 at 8:42 am
Well, just in time: looks like we got us a Hammerhead.
on June 27th, 2012 at 10:07 am
Daniel: In my opinion, this is about religious discrimination, and fanatics acting like they don’t have any home training or manners. Why would you put a pig’s head on a pike? Salmonella poisoning and the common sense theory would dictate that method of communication is not going to be received very well.
This is also an example of how a post can cause many different threads, conversations, disagreements and discussions. But I think most of us agree that the true root cause of this particular group’s behavior deals with either a lot of LSD, or misguided hate, hence the name “Hatewatch.”
And FYI – most of the Muslims that I have known, worked with, or even lined up against, probably do not marry children. I was speaking against the history of such an act, not the people themselves.
on June 27th, 2012 at 10:29 am
Daniel, you failed. I figured you’d be used to it by now.
on June 27th, 2012 at 10:56 am
He won’t get it, Ruslan. Hammerheads don’t.
on June 30th, 2012 at 8:14 am
Even a hammer could not penetrate the thick skulls in this thread. I had no hopes of doing so. Just wanted to inject a few seemingly unknown facts, especially about the so called “Prophet”.
on June 30th, 2012 at 8:55 am
What’s the matter, Daniel? You gonna cry about it?
Get a life.
on June 30th, 2012 at 7:16 pm
He’s going to cry, Aron, because, as we are not toilets, we won’t swallow his offerings.