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Hatewatch is managed by the staff of the Intelligence Report, an investigative magazine published by the Alabama-based civil rights group Southern Poverty Law Center.
Radical Right Joins in Secession Frenzy
Hundreds of thousands of disgruntled conservatives, still smarting from the re-election of President Obama last week, are signing petitions to allow more than 30 states to secede from the United States — and they are being joined by a motley collection of white nationalists, neo-Nazis and Klan sympathizers.
As of midday today, eight of the petitions, which are being posted on a government website set up to encourage citizen participation, have crossed the threshold of 25,000 signatures required to prompt a guaranteed official reply from the White House. (The states are Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Louisiana, North Carolina, Tennessee and Texas, the state with the most signers.) But the petitions carry no legal weight at all, and almost no one anywhere on the political spectrum expects them to result in anything more than a collective blowing off of right-wing steam.
Still, that hasn’t stopped the denizens of Stormfront, a huge white nationalist Web forum run by a former Alabama Klan leader, from enthusiastically embracing the cause. Starting last Saturday, a large number of comment threads began appearing on the site that encouraged the radical right to join in on the fun.
Of course, the discourse on the forum has that special Stormfront kind of feel — which is to say, the underlying concern of most participants there is how to create a country, or perhaps countries, that is all, or at least mostly, white.
“We would be better off using all of our strength to secede 80% white states,” wrote “MattwhiteAmerica” in one of more than a dozen threads discussing secession. “A state like Texas, LA, MISS, AL, CA etc are going to need a good old fashion [sic] war to remove the non-whites. … I’m saying this as most non-whites are socialists and takers. We won’t get a good constitution without a solid white majority.”
“We need to form a WHITE republic,” MattwhiteAmerica added a little later. “One that is for whites by whites!”
Responded “Buffalo”: “I have a feeling a lot if not most of the coloreds would be more than willing to leave a state that actually seceded. I have a feeling they would be smart enough to know that it would be either leave on your own or your [sic] going to be removed by whatever means needed.”
One unexpected dissent came from “Britannic Nationalist,” a foreigner. “Either you’re a country or you’re not,” the poster wrote. “Either all the States should be completely independent, or they should all be a single country. … Will what is now the USA just turn into a land mass of warring factions, states and peoples?”
Most of those posting at Stormfront seemed to realize that they were engaging in a pipe dream. But a few had definite hopes. “Once the cumulative secession petition count exceeds one million then Obama will be very worried,” wrote “Disappointed American.” “One million pissed off armed Americans, coupled with the [antigovernment group] Oathkeepers 3%, can defeat the military. At 2 million signatures, it’s basically a certainty at least one state will secede.”
Well, maybe. Of course, if that’s true, it’s just as likely that some of the other petitions at the government’s We the People website will eventually win their causes, too — causes like “Not Allow The FDA To Regulate Premium Cigars,” “outlaw offending prophets of major religions,” “Restore Fairness And Objectivity To Our Media,” and even “Peacefully grant the city of Austin Texas to withdraw from the state of Texas & remain part of the United States.”
And then there were two direct responses to the secession petitions: “Force all states to pay their portion of the national debt before they can secede from the union” and “Strip the Citizenship from Everyone who Signed a Petition to Secede and Exile Them.” Which is just the kind of thing Stormfronters might actually like.
on November 14th, 2012 at 2:15 pm
Hey now. The premium cigar issue is very different from every other petition you mentioned.
People’s livelihoods are at stake on that one.
on November 14th, 2012 at 2:38 pm
I liked the idea of WNs emigrating much better.
on November 14th, 2012 at 2:54 pm
Aron, you know that’s just a smokescreen.
on November 14th, 2012 at 3:14 pm
…They DO realize that if they secede, it’s entirely likely that the rest of the US is gonna bomb the living sh** out of them, right? Because they’re not gonna let all the military bases and valuable infrastructure stand in what is essentially a rogue state.
Won’t be so much a Civil War as a one-sided Civil Massacre.
on November 14th, 2012 at 3:16 pm
SPLC makes it seem like its a bad thing that people are signing these petitions.
Who cares what groups support it or do not support it?
and who says that the only people signing it are conservatives??? thats just not true
It has nothing to do with who is president either. it has to do with the policies that are coming out of Washington DC, in the congress and from the thousands of regulations that are being thrown out there every month.
on November 14th, 2012 at 3:18 pm
Celebration time bye bye South. the north did winn the cival war, are youb still mad?
on November 14th, 2012 at 3:36 pm
Are Premium Cigars a food or a drug? I think they are under the jurisdiction of the BATFE. Uh oh.
on November 14th, 2012 at 3:58 pm
Why doesn’t SPLC stop being anti-White? Liberia a country founded by and for freed blacks wrote into its constitution that it is a country for “Negroes” only, barring anyone else. Every other country including Mexico has laws protecting their own people. Let’s face it, nations bound by loyalty are brotherhoods. Everyone else fights for their rights as should Whites.
on November 14th, 2012 at 4:03 pm
And by ‘people’s livelihoods,’ I was kind of referring to myself, as I am a tobacconist. And further FDA regulation would be a bit of a disaster for me.
The fact that my aunt is heading up an FDA unit to do just that somewhat adds insult to injury.
on November 14th, 2012 at 4:13 pm
Let them go. However, if they try and bring back slavery, send in the drones.
on November 14th, 2012 at 4:52 pm
“It has nothing to do with who is president either.”
So it’s just a coincidence that these petitions started popping up after Obama won? And this isn’t even the second time.
” it has to do with the policies that are coming out of Washington DC, in the congress and from the thousands of regulations that are being thrown out there every month.”
Oh really? Name some of those regulations and tell your horror story about how terrible they are.
@The other moron
“Why doesn’t SPLC stop being anti-White? ”
Well I think it would have to start first.
“Liberia a country founded by and for freed blacks wrote into its constitution that it is a country for “Negroes” only, barring anyone else.”
‘
Really?
” There is also a sizable number of Lebanese, Indians, and other West African nationals who make up a significant part of Liberia’s business community. A small minority of Liberians of European descent reside in the country.”
That took me less than TWO minutes to find. See this is why people call you “ignorant” all the time. I’m sure you were probably wondering about that.
” Every other country including Mexico has laws protecting their own people.”
HOLD ON!! Even Mexico? WOW!! Yes, the US has laws to protect its own people as well. Its people are of all different ethnic groups or “races” if you prefer. See you screwed the dog the moment you confused “American” for “white.” In fact there are plenty of totally white Mexican citizens.
” Let’s face it, nations bound by loyalty are brotherhoods.”
Uh yeah, let’s face someone’s bizarre, totally idiotic statement on nationhood which sounds like it was dreamed up by a 15 year old for a writing assignment.
” Everyone else fights for their rights as should Whites.”
Please tell us what rights are denied to “Whites.” Also, you are aware that American does not equate to “White”, right?
on November 14th, 2012 at 5:02 pm
Treason used to be a crime.
on November 14th, 2012 at 5:04 pm
I’ll bet that the list of states where these petitions are located matches the list of, “Highest federal spending per capita, by state.” (…and also the list of, “lowest average SAT scores, high school graduation rates, uninsured people, lowest prevailing wages, etc. etc.)
on November 14th, 2012 at 5:13 pm
Exile them to Africa. In the belly of small wooden boats.
on November 14th, 2012 at 5:22 pm
Someone mentioned Slavery. I am being forced to pay for the education of children who are illegally in this country. Thanks to a federal judge. Sounds like whites need an underground railroad to flee the united slave states of america.The majority of tax payers are white. I know black people with good jobs who managed to get Obama phones on my dime.
on November 14th, 2012 at 5:51 pm
Its time all these people that are wanting seccession should consider returning to their ancestorial lands. Get the hell out of America and leave the rest of us alone so we can do what a nation needs to survive. Obama has been elected and that is it. The people spoke so live with it and work with it or leave.
on November 14th, 2012 at 6:07 pm
I think the system is going to fall petitions aren’t going to do anything half america hates the other half america is on the fence if it is the black panthers skinheads or whatever people are grouping up for protection!
on November 14th, 2012 at 6:16 pm
It shows how little some people understand what they are promoting. It is unpatriotic and ridiculous to see people sign petitions to secede. The economies would fall apart of the states who would try it. Texas could kiss NASA and all the industries connected goodbye, no constitutional protections and no support for collecting taxes tosupport education, LEO, or dealing with natural disasters to name a few issues. I am really sick of the negativity coming from those who decry how horrible the government is but most of them seem to have no trouble reaping what they can from it. If you think America is so terrible- give up your citizenship and move on. There are too many people waiting to become citizens and it is disgraceful to see people behave in such a manner -
on November 14th, 2012 at 6:20 pm
Hi, Sam.
Aron, I knew you liked impressive stogies, but didn’t know you dealt in them. Sorry about your aunt.
I see Sawdust-head is calling itself Brook now.
James, your guy lost the election, and if he had won, it wouldn’t have turned out the way you think. Meanwhile, live with it, as we’ve all had to, at one time or another. You are a citizen of a country, not a member of a country club, and even if it were a case of the latter, resignation wouldn’t mean you could just take over part of the clubhouse for your own use.
Florida went blue, and I’m not about to stand for certain sore losers taking us out of the United States of America and sticking us in Redneckia with certain jurisdictions herein unnamed.
And, Erika, “redneck” varies from place to place. Here, a Florida native who was either born here before 1945 or was born to a family settled here before 1945, is a “Cracker”, a name borne with pride. Bob Graham is a Cracker. Bill Nelson is a Cracker. Certain breeds of horses, cattle, and chickens are Cracker breeds. “Redneck” tends to be applied to certain people, usually from Missouri or Ohio or such, who pretend they’re Crackers by flying Confederate flags, blasting jingoistic “country music”, and uttering bigotries, all while cooking and consuming mountains of barbecue, but they all live in tract houses, call cows “he”, and probably think roosters lay eggs. They correspond to the people you call “fake Rednecks”.
on November 14th, 2012 at 6:27 pm
A disclaimer: I am not a Cracker. However, my mother, having been orphaned, was sent to live in then-rural Dade County from the age of eight to the age of sixteen, and when the family moved down to that same county when I was thirteen, there were still plenty of Crackers around, so I more or less understand these distinctions.
on November 14th, 2012 at 6:32 pm
Just tell them all to self-deport.
on November 14th, 2012 at 6:40 pm
Man, between these secessionists and all the liberals that left for Canada during the Bush years, America has got to be one of the least populated countries by now
on November 14th, 2012 at 7:22 pm
I think Texas should secede so we can invade them and take all of their Dr. Pepper.
on November 14th, 2012 at 7:45 pm
Stop trying to twist EVERYTHING people do around to serve as anti-White propaganda. I know you don’t have the courage to publish comments from White Nationalists, so this is just a message to you: Quit insisting that our race is somehow obligated to quietly accept extinction. We are not, and we will not.
on November 14th, 2012 at 7:58 pm
One would think that they would be suspicious about signing their name to a petition, living in the age of black helicopters, FEMA camps, those awful New Black Panthers and all.
Joking aside, what is going to be their Fort Sumter moment? They really haven’t thought this whole thing through, if I might be permitted to state the obvious.
on November 14th, 2012 at 9:07 pm
It’s funny how everyone is trying to fight for a piece of a country that is not even theirs in the first place!!! we all don’t belong here anyways. The native americans are the only “true” americans anyways. We all should be deported and sent back to where we truly belong. Every American should think about that before talking about whether this country belongs to whites, blacks. asians, europeans, or whomever else say they belong on this continent. Now that’s some truth to ponder over!!
on November 15th, 2012 at 12:01 am
I’ve just finished reading Saul Friedländer’s massive two-volume history of the Holocaust. The language we’re hearing from these White Supremacists is eerily familiar. By the way, Hitler too favored “self-deportation” during the early years, after 1933 but before the beginning of full-scale genocide. And recently we’ve been hearing the same language from many other places.
That said, a lot of the states listed in the column are ones I wouldn’t be sorry to see go — except that we’d be plagued by a rash of illegal immigration from them.
on November 15th, 2012 at 12:45 am
This is something to be aware of, and keep an eye on.
While I don’t think that this particular campaign is going to lead directly to any violent acts, or actual attempted revolutions, I hope that this is not simply being shrugged off as just a few rednecks blowing off steam.
The Stormfront crowd tends to be a paranoid lot, so I think it’s significant that any of them would go on a government website and give their legal names for this kind of effort.
Also, this is not only about Obama as a black man. Believe it or not, some people just don’t like his policies. The white supremacists don’t have “hundreds of thousands” of supporters, so who are these other people?
Just something to think about.
on November 15th, 2012 at 3:51 am
(Racist) troll clean-up by the babbling Brooke…
on November 15th, 2012 at 8:19 am
i wonder how many people signing these petitions are Yankees looking to ge rid the U.S. of those freeloading red states? :)
But i also wonder if a a New Confederacy (or perhaps since the Confederacy didn’t have a lot of success last time they will go with a new name like Teabagistan or even Trinidad and Teabago) is formed would people born there have to get a green card to stay in the U.S. or have to return to the New Confederacy/Teabagistan? That would be a very distressing development :(
And on another note, it looks like Jason/Annie/Ezra/Jeb/Jessica/James/Brooke has undergone another gender change (assuming the Committee is smart enough to realize that Brooke is the feminine version which may well be assuming facts not in evidence).
on November 15th, 2012 at 8:36 am
stop bieng anti-white. the reason this country was great was because it was founded on white principles, by white men. All the rest of you are just system soaking parasites.
on November 15th, 2012 at 8:39 am
I see the morning is off to a roaring start. Pass the coffee pot.
on November 15th, 2012 at 8:47 am
J123: do you realize that (a) you can’t see us, and (b) the majority of us, including me, have self-identified as phenotypically white? I’m not anti-white. I have a blue-eyed white tomcat, his blue-eyed white daughter, a white wheelbarrow (to go with my red chicken), have whitewashed my house, and will do as much with my picket fence this winter. That doesn’t mean I can’t also have a black cat and a black hunting dog (I do). Now, shut up.
on November 15th, 2012 at 8:57 am
“Cathy said,
on November 14th, 2012 at 5:13 pm
Exile them to Africa. In the belly of small wooden boats.”
we did already. it’s called Liberia and look what happened to it.
on November 15th, 2012 at 9:28 am
And my little white house has gloss black trim, too. And now, shut up.
on November 15th, 2012 at 9:48 am
i’m sorry, Aron, but cigars are just plain gross. yuck! :P
Reynardine, many of the loudest most vocal flag waiving neoconfederate “rednecks” that i have ever encountered turn out to be from New Jersey – or their parents were from New Jersey
Fun fact regarding the Georgia variety of cracker: the former minor league baseball team in Atlanta was called the Atlanta Crackers. There was also a Negro League team that was believe it or not called the Atlanta Black Crackers
on November 15th, 2012 at 9:57 am
The JasonAnnieEzraBrooke combine has so many names and so few talking points. Repetitive, tedious, and without factual or intellectual merit. In other words, the usual drivel.
on November 15th, 2012 at 10:25 am
Erika, I almost mentioned New Jersey, but more of our “rednecks” come from the lower Midwest. I believe you when you say New Jersey is dominant in Virginia’s population thereof.
It’s true that in both Florida and Georgia, it’s one’s birthplace + length of residence of one’s ancestry that counts, so there are black Crackers and Cuban Crackers. (The latter, by the way, are delicious, but not heart-healthy)
on November 15th, 2012 at 10:29 am
Alright, I will put my two cents in. People in Wisconsin signed the petition to secede. And, having worked for four years in the North of Wisconsin… which really is a separate state from the South of Wisconsin… I know exactly who these people are.
They are the people who threw rocks at families when the Native Americans started excercizing their Treaty Rights during spear fishing. The same people who screamed racial slurs at the families that consisted of women and children who went to support their husbands who were fishing to make sure their families didn’t starve… they were the same people who wore the LEO uniform who stood by and did nothing.
However, there were numerous people who did not have a stake in the game who came up to observe, film and protect these people… and made sure that if the State was not going to protect human rights, then, the Feds better do it or their feet were going to be held to the fire.
So, I ask, who is it that is signing these petitions? Since I moved to the South in the last two years, I am still trying to wrap my head around this mentality… they are people who believe the Civil War was a just cause… and, btw, the more I read about it, the more the Civil War seemed to be like a bunch of gerbils that ate their young.
Only one State that formed the Confederacy made it legal to secede from the Confederacy after it was formed. You win a biscuit if you can name which one without googling it.
Personally, I think signing petitions on a White House Website is proof of a very low IQ, since, if any of the caca hits the fan, that is the first place that State and Federal investigators will start.
Now, let me, for humor’s sake, spell out what kind of redistribution we were looking at if the GOP-TEA Party won a full sweep of the Federal Government:
-increased taxes and closed deductions on the middle class
-un-funding of the EPA and rampant unabated pollution from the fracking industry
-war in Iran, Syria (Syria is Iran’s route to the sea ;) and Libya, of course all without the draft, and guess who populates the majority of the volunteer army, that is right middle and below class
-privatization of Medicaire, Social Security, etc etc, resulting in the loss of economic security for the majority of baby boomers who have already sustained terrible losses in the stock market
-banks siezing record numbers of properties, hence the corporate take over of most of the private land lost in the stock market crash
I could go on and on and on… however, I think most of you get the point.
Myself, I am a Euromutt and would love to move to Germany. Did you know they have around 12 legitimate political parties there, and the Nazi Party is against the law? Who would have known? And it would be solely for the fact that they have some superior technology they have developed well in my particular professional field.
Hell, my first ancestor came here from Scotland in the 1750′s, but I am really really tired of the archaic social policies of this country holding back our technological advances in solar, wind and biofuels. It is pathetic.
on November 15th, 2012 at 10:33 am
“Tony Soprano” do you realize I’m the same person who formerly signed as “La Piovra”? You want to think about that, bud?
on November 15th, 2012 at 10:37 am
I’m sick of both sides. How about we direct some energy into making Amerika a decent place live. All the people that want to separate should be allowed to do so. Let them go to the northwest or where ever. Let the others go to the southest or where ever and leave everybody else alone. And when you arrive at the place of your new homeland, let your mouths remain shut. Your are an independent homeland…..make it work.
Did I mention let your mouths remain shut?
on November 15th, 2012 at 10:44 am
What? as someone who, in my now remote childhood, spent vacations with my aunt and uncle in Vilas County, methinks I not only know who you’re talking about, but could even name family names and ancient scandals.
on November 15th, 2012 at 11:01 am
It is now up to 40 states.
on November 15th, 2012 at 11:01 am
j123
I don’t mean to rain on your parade here but it appears you have forced my hand. This country being “founded on white principles by white men” was in, in fact, built on the backs of enslaved Africans kidnapped or sold into slavery and these lands were wrested from the original owners, the Native Americans. White principles? Taking what doesn’t belong to you (freebies) whilst doing nothing to make that land yours except saying to others, “You work and I’ll sit here and reap those benefits.” It appears to me you are the very essence of those you hate.
on November 15th, 2012 at 11:15 am
We might be better off without them. A lot of the really troublesome problems in our politics derive from policy and law in the states of the former confederacy. A really full treatment of this idea can be found in _Better Off Without ‘Em, A Northern Manifesto for Southern Secession_ by Chuck Thompson.
One might read the title and dismiss the book out of hand, but there are some very serious ideas discussed in the book, especially pertaining to labor practices. I started reading it with a very skeptical attitude, but I became a fan of the book.
on November 15th, 2012 at 11:15 am
Once upon a time, schoolchildren all across the land were required to memorize the Preamble to the U.S. Constitution. Clearly, that practice has ceased in many parts of the country, which is unfortunate, because it states very clearly why the Founders formed a central government. I’ll break it down into easily digestible points for the secessionists, who obviously have never seen it before:
We the People of the United States, in Order to:
1. Form a more perfect Union
2. Establish Justice
3. Insure domestic Tranquility
4. Provide for the common defense
5. Promote the general Welfare, and
6. Secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity
do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
Secessionism clearly violates points 1, 3 and 4, and the reasons the secessionists advance for their desire to leave the Union generally are in conflict with all the remaining points.
I’ve said it before, but it bears repeating: Those on the far right like to claim that they’re the genuine pro-Americans, patriots and liberty-lovers, when in reality they are exactly the opposite.
on November 15th, 2012 at 11:30 am
Douglas,
Individuals from 40 states may have filed petitions, but no state has filed anything yet. Nor is any state government likely to, even Texas. This secession movement is definitely DIY.
on November 15th, 2012 at 12:47 pm
After looking at that petition website i am like so totally divided on whether i should start crying at the level of sheer insanity present in this country or to have a little fun and create my own petition to have Cobb County, Georgia declared a separate planet :)
on November 15th, 2012 at 1:13 pm
Erika: Do it!
on November 15th, 2012 at 1:19 pm
What is wrong with these people? Most or many of them profess to be Christians. Don’t they even know that JC said to love everyone. Beginning to believe that humans just are a big mistake.
on November 15th, 2012 at 1:34 pm
Welcome, Freshman class of idiots. It’s orientation time!!
“stop bieng anti-white. the reason this country was great was because it was founded on white principles, by white men.”
This would be the world’s most idiotic ‘cum hoc ergo propter hoc’ argument if the premise itself weren’t so flawed. The United States was founded by mostly British colonists who owned slaves. America got rich off of stolen land and cotton picked by slaves.
” All the rest of you are just system soaking parasites.”
Oh yeah because you’re such a productive member of society. Let me guess- it’s because you’re white!
NEXT!
“Aldric Winterblade said,”
Aldric Winterblade? Really? REALLY? Are you serious? I think I have an idea why you’re a White Nationalist. I’m guessing a level 47 White Nationalist wielding a blade of +4 Stupidity.
“Stop trying to twist EVERYTHING people do around to serve as anti-White propaganda.”
What is “anti-white propaganda?”
“I know you don’t have the courage to publish comments from White Nationalists, so this is just a message to you:”
And yet…Here is your comment. See you incorrectly think that people are afraid of your arguments, in reality there is every incentive to publish them, because they expose what losers WNs are.
“Quit insisting that our race is somehow obligated to quietly accept extinction. We are not, and we will not.”
Good news- You won’t have to, because the “white” phenotype, which has been defined and redefined numerous times since the late 17th century isn’t going extinct.
NEXT
“Someone mentioned Slavery. I am being forced to pay for the education of children who are illegally in this country. ”
You are also being forced to educate FAR more natural born citizens, many of whom might turn out to be utter failures with no critical thinking skills such as yourself.
In any case the money that is spent on education is minuscule compared to the bloated ‘defense budget’, but of course you can’t be bothered to say anything about that.
“Sounds like whites need an underground railroad to flee the united slave states of america.”
Words cannot express the stupidity of this statement. You compare having to pay taxes, much of which comes back to benefit you(and for all we know you might directly receive government funds in one form or another) to being OWNED AS PROPERTY with absolutely no rights whatsoever.
This is why people call you perpetual whiners and adult babies. This is why everyone you know hates you, either openly or secretly.
“The majority of tax payers are white.”
So white taxpayer = slave, black taxpayer = ???
” I know black people with good jobs who managed to get Obama phones on my dime.”
What the HELL is an “Obama phone”, and did you know that most welfare recipients are white?
Look “Tony”, you’re the LAST person who should want to see the abolition of a so-called “nanny state.” Someone like you must need help getting dressed in the morning, much less providing an infrastructure.
on November 15th, 2012 at 1:36 pm
Among the afore mentioned, don’t forget to add independents. The fact is something reeks.
I want a recount.
on November 15th, 2012 at 2:24 pm
What? Democrats are looking to privatize as well: Obamacare ring a bell? hello
on November 15th, 2012 at 2:33 pm
NAFTA Refugee: You lost. We won. Stop whining.
on November 15th, 2012 at 2:47 pm
Why don’t these white racist move out of the country to some European country. We(patriotic Americans) don’t want these white confederates here anyway. They have always been disloyal to our constitution.
on November 15th, 2012 at 3:38 pm
Tony Soprano while it is tempting to say that you belong “underground” with or without a railroad I don’t think you need to go underground to leave the country. Can I buy you a one way ticket to Somalia?
on November 15th, 2012 at 3:40 pm
Mark Potok
The folks at Storm Front, from make me doubly glad that the people signing the secession petitions have practically no chance of getting what they want.
on November 15th, 2012 at 3:47 pm
Yeah, Nafta, and I want a nice little organic dairy farm with Channel Island buttercows and heirloom apples in the orchard. Fantasies are very nice.
P. S. And don’t forget the fragrant lilacs around the back porch!
on November 15th, 2012 at 5:53 pm
Republicans hate America.
on November 15th, 2012 at 6:49 pm
Your organization is not worth spit. Your narrow minded analysis of secession proponents is nothing more than propaganda on a par with that evinced in The Third Reich and Pravda.
on November 15th, 2012 at 6:51 pm
I frequently receive stupid emails like the “Secessionist” mentioned. but SPLC risks lending credibility by reacting to the trash.
“Look before you leap”
on November 15th, 2012 at 7:03 pm
UTNE Magazine, which reprints interesting articles of all kinds, ran one that said that the most successful countries are about the size of our states. The EU is running into problems because some “states” make things and produce revenue, and others just borrow and beg. Sorta like here.
on November 15th, 2012 at 8:40 pm
Why do you need an underground railroad? Just leave. Nobody’s stopping you. In fact, many of us are cheering you on!
on November 15th, 2012 at 8:43 pm
Aside from the blatant left wing tilt on this article, it’s rather silly the way this is portrayed. Especially considering most members on SF don’t hate anybody at all, and most “radical right wing conservatives” just want their civil rights not to be encroached upon by oppressing governments, and they want things like more of THEIR money, so THEY can decide how to spend it. Not their government, whom they didn’t even vote for.
Regardless of this unbelievable bias, Texas has an extremely valid point in seceding. They aren’t just mad about the election, and not only are they doing a great job of backing up their claim, they are showing that we don’t have to put up with everything the White House puts out, just because it’s the White House.
on November 15th, 2012 at 8:47 pm
Ruslan Amirkhanov said,
Also, you are aware that American does not equate to “White”, right?
Really? The Founding Fathers, if they were alive, would beg to differ. An American was a ‘free White man’ of ‘good moral character’.
Going by your logic “Japanese” does not equate to “Asian” then.
on November 15th, 2012 at 9:23 pm
Hey Brook — Since you think an “all white” country should stick together, you need to go back to Germany or the UK or wherever your ancestors came from because before we whites arrived, this land belonged to the Indians. People who think like you make me & others whites cringe because you are so ignorant. And don’t worry about any real secession. There are millions of us (of all races) in all the “dumb” states that are appalled by this kind of stupidity. It’s just a lot of ignorant ranting from a lunatic fringe.
on November 15th, 2012 at 11:23 pm
Since Thomas Jefferson paid for The Louisiana Purchase, I would think that the Federal Goverment still owns any state or parts of states that may want to secede. And therefore those states would have to come up with the purchase price plus interest for the last 180 years. Also does Texas, and every other state understand how much payroll and tax money they would loose when the Federal government would pull all agencies and military industry out of those states. Or are they planning to give the Federal Government diplomatic rights for its bases and other property?
on November 15th, 2012 at 11:41 pm
You know since many people throw up the canard about ObamaCare (ACA). Remember it is based on what Mittens, put into place. Since it will never be a single payer system, tell what is so bad about american insurance companies making a boat load of money off of all the new customers? Sounds like capitalism to me.
Now if ya’ll secede and you won’t be getting anymore. Then I’m going to guess that Medicare and Social Security won’t dry up all that fast. Since your leaving you won’t be needing any of that Federal Money. The VA will be working with less expenditures, with you gone as will food stamps, medicaid and al lot of pension money. Have Fun.
on November 16th, 2012 at 8:28 am
Having researched this matter, I believe the proper response would be for the Federal powers to suspend Congressional representation for those states who have filed petitions to secede.
There is historical precedent for this action, as with Texas, whose Congressional representation was suspended after the Ordinance of Secession in 1861, and not restored until 1870, well after the Civil War.
It’s time to bring in the U.N. Blue Helmets to occupy these states and get some international political observers to oversee the political process of transition to the Union once again.
on November 16th, 2012 at 8:32 am
Hey secessionists:
Texas v Wayne. Know about it!
on November 16th, 2012 at 8:45 am
Anti: to be exact”Asian” does not equate to “Japanese”. Fit that into your tiny brain and smoke it.
on November 16th, 2012 at 10:16 am
The Chicago Tribune (of all places) had an op-ed this morning suggesting that secession by the red states would go a long way toward solving some of our fiscal problems since, for the most part, they are net “takers” of federal funds. This not only belies the suggestions by some commenters that, if SPLC would just ignore this, it would go away but makes it clear that the states with secession petitions are mostly the ones that “beg and borrow”.
on November 16th, 2012 at 10:48 am
Reynardine – if only i had the time.
The evidence is there to declare Cobb County (where old south racism meets new south sprawl to create a toxic mix of banality and crazy) a separate planet: from the history of producing hate groups, racial discrimination, and lynchings to unleashing Newt Gingrich on the world it should be clear that merely creating a New Confederacy is not sufficient for Cobb County. It needs to be its own planet :)
and yes, i do kind of suspect that most of the people calling for Georgia to leave the U.S. and join a New Confederacy do come from Cobb County. Or more likely New Jersey or Pennsylvania . Probably even the Midwest ;)
on November 16th, 2012 at 11:53 am
Reynardine, i probably single out New Jersey because it is the state which provided Virginia with its current neo-Confederate loving Attorney General. You’d think we could find some homegrown nuts here, but we actually have to import them. Recently defeated former Senator and Governor George Allen (who definitely went out of his way to act like a Redneck and was another neo-Confederate nutcase who lost his Senate seat in 2008 in part due to being caught making racial slurs) is from Los Angeles. His mother was French. You can’t get more fake redneck than that :)
Of course, i could definitely see the Midwest as being a common source for that fake redneck type. Of course, i’ve spent enough time visiting relatives in Iowa to know that realitiscally the only thing those transplanted Midwesterners is probably faking at is flying the Confederate Flag (perhaps also the accent. God, guns, hunting, fishing, auto racing, cheap beer, and horrible country music is pretty endemic in much of the Midwest.
on November 16th, 2012 at 2:20 pm
As far as I am concerned, all of this talk about secession is far more indicative of childish tantrums on the part of poor losers than any well-reasoned position. More than anything, it is indicative of poor education and low knowledge regarding how things work.
on November 16th, 2012 at 2:44 pm
Erika, I’ve got relatives in Iowa, too.
The rest of the family names are pretty common, but if you are related to anyone named Fuerste, you are related to me.
on November 16th, 2012 at 3:09 pm
And more idiots arrive!
“Wayne said,
ON NOVEMBER 15TH, 2012 AT 6:49 PM
Your organization is not worth spit. Your narrow minded analysis of secession proponents is nothing more than propaganda on a par with that evinced in The Third Reich and Pravda.”
I’m sorry was there an argument in here?
And now for my new favorite poster, “Anti-Ruslan.”
“Really? The Founding Fathers, if they were alive, would beg to differ.”
But they’re not alive, and it doesn’t matter what they think. They lived in the 18th century. If you think we should run things strictly according to the ideas of men from the 18th century then there’s no reason not to run things according to the ideas of men from the 16th century, or the 15th, or so on. We can start by getting rid of this Internet thing. I’m sure the Founding Fathers wouldn’t approve of it.
” An American was a ‘free White man’ of ‘good moral character’.”
Lot of question begging there. Clearly America has managed pretty well since expanding that definition to include women and people of other ethnic groups. Anyway, about 200 years prior, nobody knew what a “white man” was.
“Going by your logic “Japanese” does not equate to “Asian” then.”
They don’t. The “Asian” you’re thinking of is based on American society. Got it? Society…social construct. Are we learning anything yet?
And lastly this moron:
“Especially considering most members on SF don’t hate anybody at all,”
People at Stormfront don’t hate anybody. How stupid do you think people here are? Do you really think they can’t easily hop on over to Stormfront and read a dozen butthurt rants about people of other races within a few minutes?
” and most “radical right wing conservatives” just want their civil rights not to be encroached upon by oppressing governments,”
Yes, of course. That’s why you fight to ban abortion, restrict birth control, and deny gay people their civil rights. It’s because you care so deeply about freedom.
” and they want things like more of THEIR money, so THEY can decide how to spend it. Not their government, whom they didn’t even vote for.”
Technically it’s not entirely your money since you didn’t print it, and you don’t do all the necessary labor which is required to maintain the dollar as a stable currency. Second, the US has the 2nd lowest tax burden in the industrialized world, and US taxes are at unprecedented lows. This is extremely easy information to find. Third, you did not vote for many of these CANDIDATES, but you were given the opportunity to vote.
By all means, secede. I’d love to watch your backward state degenerate into oblivion.
on November 16th, 2012 at 3:23 pm
How many signatures does it take for the Federal Government to legally be able to kick them out?
on November 16th, 2012 at 3:36 pm
Eh, no, Ruslan. Decent people live in those places. Rather, I would say, let’s give them their own little self-sufficient asteroid and launch them into deep space. If they won’t take advantage of the built-in science courses, they’ll go extinct.
Anti-Ruslan, to elaborate, you are that. Ruslan has a brilliant mind, clearly an impressive education, and unwavering concern for common humanity. Therefore, in every respect, you are the anti-Ruslan.
Friday is here. I just did a situp for every one of my LXIX years, plus one, so although I may smart a bit tomorrow, I believe I am up to the task.
on November 16th, 2012 at 4:34 pm
Well; if, it’s everything a person/s /people are in opposition are considered racists; then, why is this any different. Taking a side or holding a grudge? I’m sure, today, by-now no one is actually freed from slavery, but only from the mentality; perhaps, stand “outside the box”. Myself, have given some thought, but only briefly; when, counting the numbers, in reference to the population of this country. Therefore, I can see where some people can feel intimidated. And- perceive, a given thought of: “hang the white men” however, it’s just not the case. Moreover, Socialists, America in general, is not; then so, is the sitting president; however, they are people who are and consider themselves to be.
Anyways, one of the main problems, right now, is financial; if anything. I just don’t see where the sitting president would even think to dis enfranchise America. It’s hard times! Let’s just work through this dilemmas, get them resolved, and put money into people pockets; then,most will begin to feel better.
on November 16th, 2012 at 7:14 pm
If these yahoos did create their own all-white state they would starve to death in a few months. Ever seen white people working in a field or processing chicken? Hell, half of them couldn’t clean their own houses, if they didn’t starve they’d poison themselves.
on November 17th, 2012 at 8:58 am
So when a radical leftist joins a movement you will also label them as being bad – right?
Everyone in the US is entitled to their opinion, no matter how stupid. Just look, you even have a web page!
What a bunch of discrimination!
on November 17th, 2012 at 7:51 pm
I don’t think there is enough black combat boots and black socks to fit all these idiots .
on November 18th, 2012 at 1:32 pm
Blacks did not build America. They built slave-owners’ mansions.
Indians did not own America. They were nomadic and sparse and did not believe in land ownership.
Secession is not impossible. Look at the Soviet Union.
Liberals cannot stop secessionists. Their army will be filled with transgendered weaklings.
on November 18th, 2012 at 3:10 pm
Aldric Winterblade said,
on November 14th, 2012 at 7:45 pm
Stop trying to twist EVERYTHING people do around to serve as anti-White propaganda. I know you don’t have the courage to publish comments from White Nationalists, so this is just a message to you: Quit insisting that our race is somehow obligated to quietly accept extinction. We are not, and we will not.”
Well, Aldric, they printed your drivel, so what do you say now?
And the “White race” is so paranoid about “extinction.” Well, my advice to Aldric Winterblade: emerge from his parents’ basement, having showered, put on clean clothes, shaved, used deodorant, and marry a like-minded blonde-haired, blue-eyed woman who can trace both sides of her ancestry all the way back to Charlemagne himself, and proceed to raise a baseball team of kids. While you’re at it, train in some profession, and hold a job (as opposed to leeching off of welfare or your parents), so that you can pay for all those kids, and thus set an example.
Incidentally, I’m always amused by this “extinction of the white race” rubbish. I don’t see any countries requiring intermarriage. And while the White Nationalists get all bent out of shape when a white girl dates a black, Latino, or Asian man, they don’t seem to be as upset when a white guy pursues a black, Latino, or Asian woman.
I’m laughing at “Wayne,” too. No hatred on Stormfront? Did we attend the same party?
And speaking of the Founding Fathers, they wore wigs, pigtails, breeches, traveled no faster than a sailboat or horse could take them, fought battles with Brown Bess muskets and cannons, had was candles for light, and relied on outhouses to deal with bodily wastes. That was good enough for them. Do you think that’s a good enough way to live for you? If so, maybe you better give up the Internet, and rely on a hand-operated printing press to spread your rubbish.
on November 18th, 2012 at 8:28 pm
Because someone came in and fed us goldfish, I see excellent candidates for next week’s awards, but I’ll try to observe the Friday evening deadlines.
Ruslan, having returned in force, gets an Anvil. Not gold, however, but iron: only such metal stands up to the force needed to shoe the titanic horses of the Great (Big) Khan. Know, however, we value you better than gold. Those sugar lumps are for the horses, of course…no, wait, that makes them nippish…better give them back.
Kiwi, you have given such sterling service, you shall have the Silver Anvil. And What?, you have made a wonderful showing. The Bronze Anvil is yours.
And now…The Lead Hammerhead goes to Guardian. No sheen, no sparkle, no real toughness, and anything but noble metal. Just dull, amorphous, toxic, sodden…lead.
The aptly-named Anti-Ruslan gets the Swivelling Sawdust Head, guaranteed to vomit pea soup and racist platitudes every 180° that it rotates, without a blink of its dumb, glassily-staring eyes.
Hunter’s Phallus gets the Swastinker Propeller Beanie again, along with a coupon for a course of certain injections.
On the Subacuity Table, there’s a whole pile of Swastinker Stickpins. Come on, guys, you know who you are. Grab ‘em, and pin the tails on each other’s lily white…donkeys.
on November 18th, 2012 at 9:30 pm
How come none of this secession threats happened during the 2004 post presidential elections between George W. Bush and John Kerry? I mean, many people hated Bush. Kerry had more popular votes.
on November 18th, 2012 at 9:40 pm
In the 1960′s “Anti-racists” forced ALL and ONLY white countries to open their borders to non-white immigration. Then “Anti-racists” forced ALL and ONLY white people to “integrate” or face penalties for being “naziswhowanttokill6millionjews.” Now “Anti-racists” are calculating that ALL and ONLY white children will become minorities and eventually EXTINCT. If “Anti-racists” did this to ALL and ONLY black countries, it would be called a genocide. “Anti-racist” is a codeword for anti-white.
on November 19th, 2012 at 3:33 am
“Blacks did not build America. They built slave-owners’ mansions.”
500 Ignorance points awarded! Slaves mainly picked crops. These crops were sold for massive amounts of money which helped the US grow. After slavery was formally abolished, the South managed to industrialize thanks to slave labor(this time via the prisons).
“Indians did not own America. They were nomadic and sparse and did not believe in land ownership.”
600 Ignorance points awarded! Only plains Indians were nomadic, and you’re probably too stupid to know what nomadic means(HINT: It doesn’t mean they just wander around aimlessly). Indians most certainly did settle. In any case, none of this justifies genocide.
“Secession is not impossible. Look at the Soviet Union.”
1000 Ignorance points awarded. Slavery and the genocide of Native Americans did not occur in your lifetime, but the break-up of the USSR certainly did. See there’s a reason why it was called the Union of Soviet Socialist REPUBLICS. The relationship of the republics was radically different from that of the states and the US federal government. The basis for the break-up of the USSR was the Soviet constitution itself, which gave all union republics the right of self-determination up to secession. Please find the part of the US constitution that sounds that way.
Moreover, the break-up of the USSR was effected largely against the will of millions of people who voted the opposite in various referendums throughout the union.
“Liberals cannot stop secessionists. Their army will be filled with transgendered weaklings.”
You keep believing that. The look on your face will be hilarious.
on November 19th, 2012 at 7:36 am
“In the 1960’s “Anti-racists” forced ALL and ONLY white countries to open their borders to non-white immigration. ”
Someone needs to read up on immigration law it seems. And what are these “white countries” you speak of?
“Then “Anti-racists” forced ALL and ONLY white people to “integrate” or face penalties for being “naziswhowanttokill6millionjews.”
Nope.
“Now “Anti-racists” are calculating that ALL and ONLY white children will become minorities and eventually EXTINCT.”
Why would they become extinct? If people fitting the description “white” have existed for thousands of years with “non-white” people(in fact they evolved from people who did not look white), why would they disappear?
“If “Anti-racists” did this to ALL and ONLY black countries, it would be called a genocide.”
Nobody is forcing you to inter-marry with people you consider to be of “other races.”
on November 19th, 2012 at 7:54 am
Ruslan is indeed correct.
The economic benefits of slavery went well beyond agriculture. The South was able to purchase industrial goods from the North due to the wealth generated by slaves. Thus, the entire nation was built, quite literally, on the institution of slavery.
And as for the secession chit chat going around the red states, this originated in in 2009 with comments by Texas Governor Rick Perry who used for political purposes the idea circulating among his redneck constituency that Texas has the “right” to secede based on the terms of joining the Union in 1845.
In fact this is great ignorance, since Texas does not have the right to break from the union. When Texas joined, it wanted the right to later divide into five separate states if it wished through an act of the state legislature.
Thus the real issue — which remains untested, as far as I know — is the unilateral division of Texas into separate states without the approval of the American people. It is not, strictly speaking, secession. As for the other states, they have a sacred right in America to make fools of themselves if they so wish.
on November 19th, 2012 at 8:42 am
White Rabbit, my late Mr. Winter, who co-existed with cats and a hen, made you look like a dumb bunny. El Ahraira casts you out, and wherever the Black Rabbit of Inlé takes you, it won’t be anyplace good.
And now, children, lettuce prey…
on November 19th, 2012 at 10:16 am
Rick Sanchez sez “Liberals cannot stop secessionists. Their army will be filled with transgendered weaklings.”
Congratulations, Rick. You’ve managed to concentrate a great deal of stupidity into two short sentences. I admire the economy of your idiocy.
First, all secessionists may be conservative, but not all conservatives are secessionists. The majority of conservatives realize that secession is a radical solution to a non-existent problem, not unlike a child’s temper tantrum.
The secession movement will be squashed not by the evil lib-rul elite, but by Americans who span the political spectrum, left to right.
As for the transgendered weaklings remark, it sounds like you are the one with identity and reality issues.
on November 19th, 2012 at 10:18 am
Slavery is a disgusting chapter in our nation’s history.
There is no excuse for what the, “southern gentry” did to so many african Americans.
First we have to put political pressure on the Obama Administration, to at least get a conversation going about the issue of “Reparations”, for slavery.
We need to stop playing around in the house of representatives, or we will suffer devastation as the ancestors of millions of African American continue to go unpaid for the sweat and toil of their ancestors.
Shame on The House of Representatives.
Shame.
on November 19th, 2012 at 10:56 am
To the folks saying these WNs should emigrate to Europe if they don’t like the U.S., trust me, Europeans don’t want them. Europe has all those evil socialist programs like universal health care. There’s also mutliculturalism. By that, I mean Europeans themselves are multicultural. Italian culture is totally different from Polish culture.
To the guy that said Japanese equates to Asian, what about the Russians, the Iranians, the Indians, and the Israelis? They’re Asian, too, because their countries are part of Asia.
on November 19th, 2012 at 12:08 pm
“White Rabbit” wins the prize for being the one-millionth fool to plagiarize the so-called “mantra” of former Reagan White House staffer Robert Whitaker: the source of “a naziwhowantstokillsixmillionjews” and “anti-racist is a code word for anti-white,” and all that. (White Rabbit’s version is fairly garbled, maybe because s/he’s getting it from a secondary or tertiary source or maybe just in an attempt to conceal his/her plagiarism.) Of course, it’s not, technically, a mantra; it’s an emotional, fact-free, logic-free rant. And repeating it is a sure sign that the person doing the repeating doesn’t have a clue what he or she is talking about.
on November 19th, 2012 at 1:57 pm
Part of me really wishes that the white nationalists would get their wish to have a single or multiple all white homelands established for their exclusive use simply for the entertainment factor.
Imagine this – you establish a “white homeland” and in order to move there the people would have to take genetic tests to prove that they are all white (purity of the essence of white race or whatever after all) and of course, have the application process televised. i can’t wait to see the looks on the white nationalist faces when their genetic tests all come back as being less than 100% white and they can’t move in to their all white white nationalist homeland. i mean, this would be funniest show ever. You could call it the Krazy Klan Komedy Hour.
And in the unlikely event that anyone actually qualifies for this all white homeland, and they set up the New Confederacy or Trinidad and Teabago or Teabagistan or whatever they choose to call it, it would create an even funnier show. Just imagine their legislative meetings of a bunch of people who basically believe in anarchic theocracy, alcohol, and firearms – you could have a special channel called KKKSpan to broadcast their legislative sessions (Fox News which is already the voice of the Teabagistanis could convert). Maybe they could bring back the Court TV idea and broadcast a show from the Teabagistan court system: Live at the Witch Trials. Overall, think of all of the entertainment which would result from these neo-Confederate and Teabagging idiots trying to run their own country.
Since it would be like an extended and continuous version of Idiocracy with a bit of live action Beavis and Butthead with bad moonshine style mayhem, Mike Judge could produce.
And naturally, the rest of us besides getting entertainment would be rid of the white nationalists – of course, given the likelihood that Teabagistan will have minimal pollution regulations, you probably wouldn’t want to live downstream and/or downwind from them. Okay, ignoring the fact that the white nationalists if left to their own devices would probably be too busy killing each other and/or themselves to create industry. i kind of imagine that life in Teabagistan would be similar to the state of nature described by Thomas Hobbes.
on November 19th, 2012 at 3:14 pm
“Transgendered Weaklings” sounds like a great name for a fringe rock group. Otherwise, I’ve got nothing to say that would make a dent in the cretinous musings of some of these new visitors to this site.
on November 19th, 2012 at 3:52 pm
To “ruslan”
On one hand, you say that assimilation isn’t forced. On the other hand, you advocate threats, intimidation, harassment, loss of employment, physical violence and prison time for those who are against said assimilation. So which is it, anti-White?
You say you are anti-racist. What you are is anti-White.
Anti-racist is just a codeword for anti-White. You want White geNOcide.
on November 19th, 2012 at 7:04 pm
Interesting comments. But, nobody has said why there is so much resistance to obama and his constituents and his party. Over 52 million of the unborn killed by his people, all paid for by taxpayers making those who are against killing or torturing to death the unborn involved in this. At this rate the 350 million u.s. population will not exist. Laws don’t count when it comes to non citizens yet citizen taxpayers pay for their education, health, etc. Forcing Catholic hospitals to do the unborn killing. And you followers of obama tell us he won, get over it. That tells me how hateful you people truly are against citizens and why is it only whites object to this crap, where are the others who claim they’re worthy of taxpayer support and appreciate freedom of expression? And you claim Tea Party people who joined the political system are terroists, they are against the murder of innocents but you people aren’t. They didn’t claim public land and rape and close businesses or kill anybody who didn’t agree with them. You people have forgotten this is supposed to be a free country and win or lose an election everybody still has a right to their opinion and to say it. Oh, you think the constitution is old, well, there’s your problem, not the white’s problem. The whites wrote the constitution giving all the rights and fought and won the civil war putting the rights into effect. Not the mexicans or guess workers or illegals. The white europeans did this.
on November 19th, 2012 at 8:13 pm
CM
That slogan has never made sense to me, because it would appear to be a tacit recognition of white racism.
on November 20th, 2012 at 8:39 am
Gregory, yeah, it’s as good as saying every white person is a born and immutable racist. And, Original Anna, you’re not.
on November 20th, 2012 at 8:43 am
And, TRMA, you’re not original, either.
If people like you and “Original” believed a quarter of the stuff you say about us, you wouldn’t be writing belligerant letters here. You’d be hiding under your beds, trembling in puddles of your own urine.
on November 20th, 2012 at 8:55 am
Original Anna, what are you possibly talking about with 52,000,000 unborn babies killed by President Obama’s people? That is quite a figure considering that there are approximately 311,000,000 people in the United States with slightly over half being female which would leave approximately 158-160,000,000 females. However, not all of those females are of child bearing age – some are children who are too young and some are too old. Removing prepubscent children and post-menopausal women (and really you should also remove women and girls of child bearing age who do not have sex or who are unable to have children for some reason) you maybe might have 52,000,000 women who are able to have children.
So according to your point, President Obama’s people have (obviously within the past 4 years) somehow without our knowledge performed an abortion on every woman who can have children in America. That is odd because i’m pretty sure that being forced by the government to have an abortion is something that i would have remembered.
i’m also pretty sure that forcing women to have abortion is not consistent with the President’s pro-choice position. Unlike the position of the Republicans who wanted to force women to have their rapist’s children saying it was God’s will.
on November 20th, 2012 at 10:52 am
Meanwhile in Teabagistan:
“Christian” school teachers Cathy Samford in Rockwell, Texas and Jarretta Jamilton of St. Cloud, Florida are both fired for conceiving a child before they and their husbands got married…
So having sex in committed relationship is sinful, but throwing a pregnant woman on the street is righteous? Can anyone explain this morality to me?
on November 20th, 2012 at 10:58 am
Gregory,
None of Whitaker’s rant makes any sense, it’s just a wild spew of pro-racist self-justification. But that doesn’t stop the intellectually impaired, like TRMA, from whipping it out as if it’s an all-purpose answer to every anti-racist criticism.
Erika,
Thanks for doing the math on Orig.Anna’s fantasies. I just want to add that her imaginary 52 million abortions were “all paid for by taxpayers,” which of course is also impossible. On the contrary, various federal laws prohibit the spending of tax funds on abortions.
Then there’s this gem of absurdity: “They [i.e., Tea Partiers] didn’t claim public land and rape and close businesses or kill anybody who didn’t agree with them.” I’m not sure how one rapes a business, for one thing, and I’m not at all clear on who s/he thinks did do these things. Offhand, it might make sense as a reference to the Khmer Rouge or possibly the Roundheads, but obviously it doesn’t even remotely resemble anything that has happened in the U.S. in recent times, even including the Bush II administration.
on November 20th, 2012 at 10:59 am
(Un)Original Anna said “You people have forgotten this is supposed to be a free country and win or lose an election everybody still has a right to their opinion and to say it.”
I’m curious, who is preventing you from expressing your opinion, Anna? You have posted your opinion, bizarre though it may be, here without censorship.
I would like to hear more about these “guess workers”. Are they employees that require no instructions?
on November 20th, 2012 at 11:50 am
TRMA said,
on November 19th, 2012 at 3:52 pm
To “ruslan”
On one hand, you say that assimilation isn’t forced. On the other hand, you advocate threats, intimidation, harassment, loss of employment, physical violence and prison time for those who are against said assimilation. So which is it, anti-White?
You say you are anti-racist. What you are is anti-White.
Anti-racist is just a codeword for anti-White. You want White geNOcide.
And the daily fecal hurdling from the wingnut troglodytes of Reactionary Right-Wing variety happens! But dear God where to start…
Cognitive dissonance obviously not being present, all the negative actions Ruslan leveled againt the so self-declared ‘anti-assimilationists’ was not towards any group but actually just you as an individual. If you proto-fascist anti-government crusaders are that perturbed by that educated and highly qualified darkie occupying ‘White House’ by all means leave, although recall, America is the greatest country in the world lacking universal health care, high public sector workers’ unions, superior free public education primary through secondary and so on!
In dumb man’s terms, that means avoid the entirety of Europe and much of South America and Eastern Asia like the SARS virus; I suspect since you believe the African and Middle Eastern ethnicities and races are responsible for making European whites responsible for all the problems in the world you wouldn’t be setting up home there either.
P.S.-Nobody here is anti-white as the supermajority of the posters and writers of the columns (excluding yours truly as an anomaly) are in fact of Eauropean Caucasian descent in some variety. What we all are anti-idiocy and anti-discriminatory on a spectrum of topics, so feel free to never have children lest they be the unfortunate receptors of such genes…
on November 20th, 2012 at 1:35 pm
@TRMA
“On one hand, you say that assimilation isn’t forced. On the other hand, you advocate threats, intimidation, harassment, loss of employment, physical violence and prison time for those who are against said assimilation.”
Really? Please show me where I advocate any of this. History shows that threats, intimidation and employment discrimination have all gone AGAINST black people and other non-white minorities in America, not in their favor. This is because many forms of discrimination are impossible to monitor or prove. If a real estate agent decides not to show certain houses in certain neighborhoods to minority families, they have no way of knowing or proving this. Also, are you familiar with the term “sundown town?” I suggest you look it up.
The fact is that America still is very segregated, despite anti-discrimination laws. So much for forced assimilation.
” So which is it, anti-White?”
I’m white, you moron.
“You say you are anti-racist. What you are is anti-White.
Anti-racist is just a codeword for anti-White. You want White geNOcide.”
You don’t know what genocide or oppression is. Go tell your sob story to a Kurd, East Timorese, or Palestinian. Let me tell you something else, I am “white”, you are “white,” but that’s where the similarity ends. You are an ignorant moron who thinks the world owes you something just because you were born to look a certain way, as though that was some kind of accomplishment. There is no other link between us; I am not your “brother” nor your “kinsmen.” And in the same way neither are Plato, Aristotle, or all the heroes and intellectuals throughout European history. Their accomplishments are not YOUR accomplishments, and there are literally millions of non-European people far smarter and more accomplished than you. You might want to consider that next time.
And, Mr. TRMA, if you are indeed Mr. Whitaker, let me tell you that your article on the Soviet Constitution exposed you as an ignorant blowhard with a serious case of Dunning-Kruger. There is nothing more pathetic than an idiot who is convinced he’s smarter than everyone else.
on November 20th, 2012 at 1:47 pm
Dunning-Kruger. I am not familiar with that pathology, and I used to work nut.
on November 20th, 2012 at 1:51 pm
Where are these damn FEMA camps these morons are always fantasizing about when we need them? If the government doesn’t crackdown on them when need more groups like those guys from Indiana who came and threw the beat down on those white supremacists in Chicago.
on November 20th, 2012 at 1:52 pm
TRMA’s idiotic claims of genocide need to be broken down in a separate comment. The nonsense he’s trying to sell is that people who are against “assimilation” are subject to threats, intimidation, loss of jobs, etc. Gee that sounds really mean until we actually deconstruct what is really going on.
If a person acts like a racist in public, most people are going to object to it. WNs fail to realize that freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism. Of course some racist speech in public, if it especially bad and heard by members of the target group, could provoke violence. I ask in this case what should the WN expect? Should non-white people just tip their hats and walk on as someone berates them simply because of their perceived “race” in public. If a person responds with violence, they will be charged with assault, simple as that. Now if non-whites were actually allowed to attack whites with no legal repercussions whatsoever, it would be a different story. Of course there was a time in the US when such a situation existed- in REVERSE. As one US politician said: “The Negro has no rights which a white man is bound to respect.”
That’s the REAL country people like TRMA and his WN buddies want. They want to be privileged for being white, because they can’t be somebody otherwise.
Next lets talk about losing one’s job. Let’s say I’m the owner of a business, if I don’t have a particularly diverse work force it stands to reason that I at least have a diverse customer base. Am I going to want to hire a guy who may treat non-white customers worse than my other employees? If I find my employee is a skinhead or reads racist literature, should I not suspect that he might cause problems between members of my work force? Even if my work force is mostly white, there are bound to be Jews, gays, women, liberals, etc. and WNs typically have problems with all of them. The fact is most WNs hide their politics at work or school and as a result they don’t lose their jobs. But that begs the question, if WNs can work side by side with non-whites and not have problems(and believe me, many do), why can’t they just realize that life with non-whites is indeed possible and chuck the stupid ideology?
Lastly, White Nationalists are lucky they can’t get what they want. See they call Europe a “white homeland”, but look at what this “white” continent did for centuries- they slaughtered each other. In fact, while correlation doesn’t equal causation, one indisputable fact is that Europe has actually become LESS violent as it has become more diverse. When Europeans were irrationally proud of their heritage, they slaughtered each other because of it.
So what does it mean for WN and their hypothetical “white” nation? Well first of course they have to work out who is white. They would have to make some rather arbitrary standards and base them on DNA tests. How the DNA test would prove anything about the person’s character or abilities is anyone’s guess, but that’s what they would need. Once they do that, and they have their all-white nation, they would notice a problem. Some “whites” are poor and mostly do manual labor. Other whites would be rich. Since “race” explains everything in this biological determinist world, “white” would no loner be adequate. There would be divides into “Nordic,” “Alpine”, etc. There would be divides by necessity. What’s this? Irish and Slavic Americans seem to be overrepresented among the poor and working class? It HAS to be because of flaws in Irish and Slavic blood! It can’t be because of a history of poverty and exploitation! All those things are anti-racist, Boasian claims!!
And so the white nation would again divide itself on other grounds, and of course eventually fail.
Naw I’m just kidding. A nation led by White Nationalists would fail because the “best” of the WN movement leaders has always historically consisted of con-men, losers, mentally disturbed sociopaths, pedophiles, and other assorted sex offenders/perverts. You might say perverts are over-represented in the upper ranks of the WN movement.
on November 20th, 2012 at 2:06 pm
In the interim, I looked it up, and found the phenomenon was named long after I gave up the off-the-wallnut business. We’ve all seen it, though.
on November 20th, 2012 at 2:08 pm
Michael Parker said,
on November 15th, 2012 at 2:47 pm
“Why don’t these white racist move out of the country to some European country. We(patriotic Americans) don’t want these white confederates here anyway. They have always been disloyal to our constitution.”
Most European (and other countries) wouldn’t have them. Their prejudices make them unfit for admission.
on November 20th, 2012 at 2:34 pm
Maybe the people signing these petitions can be rounded up and tried for treason.
on November 20th, 2012 at 2:34 pm
Trema, by the way, is a certain genus in the elm family, whose fruits have holes in their heads. Reckon we know where TRMA got his handle.
on November 20th, 2012 at 2:49 pm
The curious fact is that the main nuthouse where I was a kid was called Dunning, and they tore it down and built a shopping center. I had, however, a pair of neighbors who were at just that level of stupidity where, because they are too stupid to learn any more, they think they know all there is to know, without being stupid enough to know that their stupidity is impairing them. Thank you, Ruslan, for putting a name to this…er, tantalizing phenomenon. Are you in the psychiatric field?
on November 20th, 2012 at 3:06 pm
We avoided falling off one cliff this election: the cliff of white supremacy nationalism. A similar movement is fomenting in European countries suffering economic distress. The austerity programs in Europe and including the Ryan budget are mechanisms for uprooting liberalism and restoring fascism as the means for rescuing the people from a problem that was intentionally created to establish fascism.
on November 20th, 2012 at 3:23 pm
Ruslan and Reynardine,
I wasn’t aware of the Dunning-Kruger thing, either, but speaking of Plato, apparently he and Socrates knew something about it:
“And is not this the most shameful kind of ignorance, that of imagining one knows what one does not know?” (Apol. 29b)
on November 20th, 2012 at 3:43 pm
In about twenty years, those states are going underwater so let them secede, remove their citizenship and don’t let them back in the USA when the water rises. Problem solved. Just get the non whites out first
Somehow these people don’t understand that this country has natives. White is not a native color of this country. But then revision Texas History probably doesn’t teach anything before the whites came.
on November 20th, 2012 at 3:58 pm
Gregory –
I am thinking that Original Anna has confused the “Guess Workers” with the “Transgendered Weaklings.”
At any rate, none of these people seem to know which end is up.
on November 20th, 2012 at 3:59 pm
The odious quote you mentioned, Ruslan, was either Justice Taney or Justice Catron in Dredd Scot v. Sanford. Practically, however, it held true from the time Reconstruction ended until the late Fifties.
on November 20th, 2012 at 4:15 pm
Ruslan, the one thing that i believe would prevent the white nationalist homeland from becoming an icky perv pedophile hideout is the fact that the U.S. would no doubt blockade the white nationalists to prevent the importation of mail order biides since hte white nationalists would be unable to attract sufficient numbers of women to join them.
Of course, even if the white nationalists prove us wrong and did get off the ground it would be likely the sexual assault of children which leads the U.S. to send in the army to eliminate them. Ironically perhaps even the U.N would be after them for crimes against humanity since the sexual exploitation of children does appear to violate customary international law (which is why the U.S. can Constitutionally punish American icky pervs for raping children overseas). If the thought of those white nationalist idiots trying to run a government isn’t hilarious enough, imagine them getting hauled before The Hague for crimes against humanity :)
Fun fact: today when driving at lunch time, i actually saw a pick up truck with a Confederate flag flying from its antenna like something you’d see from ancient footage from the 1960s.
on November 20th, 2012 at 5:24 pm
Oh, PLEASE, fiqure out a way to let them leave. The Civil War freed the slaves. Can we find a non-violent way to free us from them?
on November 20th, 2012 at 6:34 pm
Some may think that this is just disgruntled, right-wing Republicans blowing off steam from their huge election losses. But it is more than that. The radical right wing is dangerous and needs to have the full weight of the law descend upon these miscreants.
Although the SPLC has made the Ku Kluxers and the Nazi skin-heads pay through the nose, President Obama must now appoint an Attorney General who will put these people in prison for encouraging and committing hate crimes.
on November 20th, 2012 at 6:41 pm
Re: Secessionist wing nut petitions.
The sum of any number of zeros, no matter how large, is still ZERO.
on November 20th, 2012 at 7:01 pm
There is NO American in any of these clowns.. NOT ANY. This issue was settled a LONG time ago and 600,000 American’s died to write it in BLOOD. We are ONE nation and REAL American’s do NOT turn their backs on the Nation because they LOST! They most certainly do NOT discredit all the brave American’s who died to keep this nation one! These people are TRAITORS in my view and that comes form a Marine Combat Vet.
on November 20th, 2012 at 7:18 pm
For reference purposes…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D.....ger_effect
on November 20th, 2012 at 7:27 pm
I should have added some text to my link, but the basic premise is something that most of the regulars here know already.
Stupid people generally think that they are much more clever than they really are, while smart and competent people generally think they are less competent than they really are. Bad grammar, but I am in a bit of a rush between engagements.
We could go into any number of different explanations for the phenomena that many of us experience on a daily basis. It is a bit like Bobby Jindal saying that the GOP should stop being the “stupid party” while he is advocating that his state school system teach young earth creationism as an equally valid counterpart to the theory of evolution.
on November 20th, 2012 at 7:28 pm
It is so easy for me to be cynical and say, good riddance!
There is some fine information available as to what living in a Libertarian world outside of our managed society would mean.
Want a life beyond modern government? Try Somalia.
But the truth is that , no different from 1862, Secessionists threaten the well being of the nation.
What else can I say? This is ignorance, and treason, to the Nth degree.
on November 20th, 2012 at 8:42 pm
There are women just dumb enough to join such a movement. It’s a real shame when people buy into that sort of stupidity and hate agenda.
What you have is just a large group of very repulsive human beings.
on November 20th, 2012 at 9:15 pm
This is America, love it or leave it. Remember that little rightwingnut mantra? Revive it. Deport the lot of them. Do you realize what an improvement that would make for our gene pool? The average IQ would jump by 50 points in this country.
on November 20th, 2012 at 9:46 pm
Considering that the red states often have blue urban areas…the secessionists would sort of have to figure out how to destroy the red states’ cities before they could get a secession movement moving beyond the seditious petitions to the White House website.
Interestingly, Texas had seceded from Mexico because of a Black/mixed race President, Vicente Ramon Guerrero. His Guerrero Proclamation had freed most of the slaves in Mexico in 1929. A coup that was made up of vested interests brought down the Guerrero administration and executed him a few years later. They rescinded a lot of the Guerrero administration’s actions, but even they didn’t dare rescind the Guerrero Proclamation.
The proclamation wasn’t being enforced in Texas, but the slaveholders there could read the writing on the wall, even if it was…en Español.
After Reconstruction collapsed, Texas, became infamous worldwide for its Jim Crow government and the Waco Horror.
on November 20th, 2012 at 9:51 pm
OMG, can this be TRUE? America’s FINALLY TAKING OUT THE NEOCON GARBAGE???? I CAN ‘T WAIT! And—good luck to the LOSERS getting “foreign aid” from America!
on November 20th, 2012 at 10:01 pm
Anybody remember that this is an ANTI-HATE website they’re writing on?
Anyone using this site to promote their bigoted, narrow-minded, conspiratory-theorist blather might want to move to a site more suited to their principles, like http://www.ihateeveryoneexcept.....ntself.com or http://www.nazisrus.com.
Seriously! Why is anyone wasting their energy on this?
on November 20th, 2012 at 10:02 pm
Sorry, that website didn’t completely copy over. It was:
http://www.IHateEveryoneExceptPeopleWhoLook
LikeMyIgnorantSelf.com
on November 20th, 2012 at 10:33 pm
I love the idea .
This brings all the worst elements of society together.
Let’s head ‘em up and move them out.
Give them Texas.
Declare it a separate state.
Provide them with everything they need to make the trip.
Provide a closely monitored escape route for those real Americans who love America.
They will start murdering each almost immediately.
Really close the border to them as they try to sneak back to the US.
Declare them all to be illegal aliens.
They will not be missed.
on November 21st, 2012 at 1:55 am
Texas is a majority minority state, but we have the most corrupt state and local governments due to gerrymandering. I guarantee that there are far more Texans that are loyal to the United States than there are white, racist idiots that think that people are not going to fight for their US citizenship. As a white American I am so sick of these white racists making my race look like hateful, mean, low-down, ignorant Neanderthals.
on November 21st, 2012 at 8:15 am
After their defeat in the U.S. Civil War, several thousand of the defeated Confederates emigrated to Brazil. I wonder who would accept them today……
on November 21st, 2012 at 9:42 am
Big “thumbs-up” to Ruslan Amirkhanov for his quote to one of the racist idiots who posted. Ruslan, after noting that the racist wrote:
“Liberals cannot stop secessionists. Their army will be filled with transgendered weaklings.”;
replied -
“You keep believing that. The look on your face will be hilarious.”
I’m with you on that Ruslan. I could see the same face of defeat on those racists, as those Nazi troops (from World War II film footage) with faces of dazed and defeated disbelief at the hands of the Allies during that great cataclysm. (…and God only knows the similar look of defeat on the faces of the Confederate hordes after their crushing fall.)
on November 21st, 2012 at 9:54 am
All are not disgruntled Conservatives. There are many disgruntled Progressives, Communists, and Leftists who have sided with movement. It is not HATE. Most see the destruction of the US Constitution, Freedoms and Liberties being slowly attacked and have no other way to defend them or show their detest. Nothing against Mr. BHO or the outcome of the election.
Many inflame words are said here which not HATE? HATE is being used very loosely. As is racism. It sure stops the discussion.
on November 21st, 2012 at 10:18 am
Douglas, I don’t note that this discussion has stopped at all. Unless you use the kind of language that can’t pass our Hays Office, your comments, however cretinous, will be posted here. As to your “movement”, I hesitate to describe it, in good measure out of respect for said Hays Office.
on November 21st, 2012 at 10:27 am
Before we get all hot under the collar, stress out, and require major Obama Care interventions, remember the petition signers are exercising their right to free speech. The Constitution provides a very important venting system; why shouldn’t they take advantage of it? Would you prefer vigilantes to petition signers? Given their history, I think signing petitions is a very positive move for White Nationalists and Klan members. It shows they have some gained some understanding of the Constitution. In time, perhaps, as they learn to work within the Bill of Rights, they may buy into more of it. And by the way, Obama had the support of many whites or he wouldn’t have won. 25,000 people do not a majority make.
on November 21st, 2012 at 10:44 am
Thanks Larry, but I think comparing them to Nazi stormtroopers is a bit generous. I’ve seen most of these types at many gun shows over the years and they like to talk about some kind of reckoning which would take place after a total collapse of law and order. I often wondered why that apocalypse was necessary, and after a few years I finally figured it out. They want to take shots at unarmed people, and they envision themselves rounding up and shooting a bunch of hemp-wearing hippies and white-collar liberals and college professors. As I said, they’re going to get a rude awakening if they put this naive plan into action.
on November 21st, 2012 at 11:29 am
Here they go again. To justify tyrannical unjust and unconstitutional government; lets play our race cards. Divide and conquer. Aren’t we all Americans? Why can’t we all get along? Surrendering all our rights and privileges to the government only creates tyrannical government and we all suffer. The American free enterprise system is admired all over the world. It’s why everyone wants to come here. It’s produced the greatest economy ever known to mankind. We did build it contrary to what Obama may say. Get government out of the way and let we the people, all the people enjoy the prosperity.
on November 21st, 2012 at 11:30 am
William Lloyd Garrison, the great aboltionist, favored “Disunion”, the idea that there should be “no union with slavery” in the 1850s. Today the non-Confederacy states are the real “makers”, subsidizing the Confederate “takers”. I’m tired of hearing from those whose “culture” consisted of slavery, lynching, and Jim Crow and can’t accept the fact that a (half) black man won the presidency. I say: Let the south secede-better late than never!
on November 21st, 2012 at 12:25 pm
At what point, legally or otherwise, is a secession movement considered treasonous, if ever?
on November 21st, 2012 at 12:53 pm
What will happen when the US government closes down it’s federal operations, military bases, all federal funding disappears, border control goes into effect.
But, that is all complete nonsense. No state , no group of individuals , no matter how insane they may be, will ever
succeed in secession from the United States.
Not sure why folks even embrace such low level thinking(?).
on November 21st, 2012 at 1:40 pm
Hey, why don’t these secessionists just go back to whatever land that God put their ancestors on, and give the land back to the original people who lived here. If they can’t live in peace here with everyone that’s here, just go the hell back to where your people came from!
on November 21st, 2012 at 1:42 pm
I really like the idea of giving them Florida, myself, except of course, the Florida Keys, which has a US Naval Base on it and other Federal properties we need for strategic reasons.
Here is what the Racist Republic of Florida can expect, though…
+removal of every building in the RRF that was re-built with the assistance of FEMA flood insurance, which would most likely include at least 50% of the structures on shore lines.
+exclusion of any Native American land, including both Seminole Nations, so they can form their own sovereign naitons, or choose to remain part of the United States (for the one Seminole Nation that actually signed treaties with the US).
+exclusion of any Federal Department of Defense land, including the 13 active military installations in Florida.
+legal emmigration for ANYONE in Florida who wants to remain a United States citizen… which would include 70% of the active work force.
+The United States of America will retain control of the flood protection devices of the southern half of Florida they have been built with the assistance of Federal dollars. We might as well keep all of the waterways too, since there have been Federal dollars protecting their water quality.
+We will also need to keep the Everglades… since the Everglades is the breeding grounds for gigantic pythons, that we can’t let over run our military bases in Florida.
I think Florida is quite expendible, considering its lack of adequate voting processes. We can start massive orange growing operations in south Georgia with all the money we save. When the sea level rises, the entire problem would be solved.
on November 21st, 2012 at 2:53 pm
Go figure. The right doesn’t want anything to do with the left. It’s so…………… radical.
on November 21st, 2012 at 3:51 pm
Neo Nazi and Klan sympathizers have no place in our Military or in Federal Jobs.
It goes way beyond a mere philosophy when those people engage in racist activities against the American public.
on November 21st, 2012 at 4:22 pm
If this nonsense go through, let these states pay the Reparations due the Black American first. The Jews,Japanese, and American Indians were paid. Only the Blacks were ignored and we are still waiting for it, for the suffering our families and ancesters endured these 500 yrs. Don’t get angry, look into it.
on November 21st, 2012 at 7:39 pm
I recall reading a news item about this that said all of the states with secession petitions are “takers” — that is, they cost the federal government more than they return in taxes. So maybe the easiest way to balance the budget is to let the bastards secede.
on November 22nd, 2012 at 9:22 am
Thanks for the informative article.
By the way, the level of vitriol here is only a fraction of the flame wars on Apple/PC discussions. Where are the ALL CAP messages with !!!!!!!!!! lots of angry punctuation? You people are practically polite.
on November 22nd, 2012 at 3:52 pm
Happy Thanksgiving!
on November 22nd, 2012 at 9:41 pm
Well, we hear from “TRMA,” who has written here under various other names:
“To “ruslan”
On one hand, you say that assimilation isn’t forced. On the other hand, you advocate threats, intimidation, harassment, loss of employment, physical violence and prison time for those who are against said assimilation. So which is it, anti-White?”
You say you are anti-racist. What you are is anti-White.
Anti-racist is just a codeword for anti-White. You want White geNOcide.”
Sorry I haven’t weighed in on this gent, but I’ve been busy working with Homeland Security and FEMA in the wake of Hurricane Sandy on the second stage of our post-Sandy efforts, using the men of the 7th Gurkhas as a security force while we build special “resettlement camps” in affected areas, as a prelude to “ethnic cleansing” and the secret UN/NATO base that will enable the European Union and the African Union to take over control of New Jersey from the United States. We signed the agreement with Governor Christie and President Obama when they went to New Jersey after the hurricane.
That ought to keep the conspiracy nuts buzzing for a while!
Now, back to TRMA…we’ve seen you make sporadic appearances on this website, repetitiously spouting your line, “Anti racist is anti white.” You must have that on a shortcut on your keyboard! You pop up under a variety of names, and once you even included your website address. Boy, that’s a lot of effort to spout more drivel about the efforts to exterminate white rabbits.
Anyway, back to your main points:
1. Ruslan has posted many more times here than you have, for many years, and I have read his and your posts at great length. I have NEVER seen him advocate “threats, intimidation, harassment, loss of employment, physical violence, and prison time” or “forced assimilation” in any of his posts.
2. Freedom of Speech is not “freedom from speech.” If you spout stuff in the public arena, be prepared to be called out and held accountable for it. If you say stuff that offends people, expect them to be offended and argue back. If you annoy people, they’re not going to just sit there and “take it.” You don’t like getting yelled at? Tough beans, kiddo. Welcome to democracy. We have the right to tell you what we think of you. That’s why Carl Pavano gets booed every time he comes to Yankee Stadium.
3. If you engage in behavior that embarrasses your employer or breaks the law, expect to be fired by your employer or go to prison. That’s true in any country, even ones that don’t offer their citizens freedom of speech, regardless of the country’s philosophies or ethnicities. It’s a simple rule of employment: torque off the boss, he or she can fire you. If you don’t believe me, stick a crowbar in your wallet and chat with an employment lawyer.
4. You have come here repeatedly and whined about “forced assimilation,” but have yet to prove that whites are being forced to marry blacks or vice versa. The burden of proof is on you, not your cartoon rabbits.
5. Please share with us actual occasions when you, personally, have been subjected to “threats, intimidation, harassment, loss of employment, physical violence, and prison time” for your behavior. Your web page up and running? No KGB, FBI, or KAOS agents dragging you off to prison? You ever been fired from a job? Better yet, have you ever held a job? And if you’re suffering from threats and intimidation, was that because you refused to marry a black, Latino, or Asian girl? Has any government agent or job superior actually come to your parents’ home, descended into your basement, and said to you, “Hey, dum-dum, you are now required by law to marry this black girl. If you do not do so and present our glorious leader with seven biracial kids in eight years, you will go to prison?” Actually, I hope someone does. Watch how fast your attitudes and priorities in life change once you’re married, responsible, and having kids. Far less time to sit at the computer in the basement and whine, hey?
I won’t bother to use the usual argument about “Defining white culture” on you, because you’ve heard it here numerous times before, and you’re not listening. You’re just hoping one person out of 20,000 reads your rubbish and says, “This guy is cool. I’m going to join his army and send him my life savings from my grandfather’s trust fund,” so you can move out of your parents’ basement into your own apartment, hire some servants, and spend the rest of your life whining on the internet, and not worry about paying for it or cooking your own food. Unfortunately, while you’ll probably get some hits on your website, I don’t think you’ll get that $30 million check.
So I’ll move on. Ruslan had a great argument about how a “white homeland” would break up into little civil wars. I would add this:
Such a state would have an immediate problem, in that none of its citizens would be willing to take low-paying menial jobs…sweeping floors, cleaning toilets, re-paving streets, cleaning sewer lines, washing linen in the hotels, mowing lawns, picking crops, and saying, “Would you like fries with that, sir?” After all, the entire citizenry would believe that despite their lack of education, they would be entitled to high-paying jobs by virtue of their race and ethnic group. The beer-swilling rednecks that would make up this nation would refuse point-blank to perform these menial tasks, insisting that they are only fit for sub-humans, not the “Aryan elite.” The Aryan elite is unwilling to do miserable low-paying, minimum-wage, entry-level jobs. They seem to take welfare or cook up methamphetamine instead.
So this nation would have to bring in guest workers from out of state. Now, they could invade their neighbor and bring back slaves, but that neighbor would be the United States of America, and the US would be most annoyed at being invaded and would strike back with vigor.
The second option would be to let in people from other countries to be guest workers or as immigrants to undertake these jobs, just like in the United States. And they would come running from impoverished countries to find those jobs. And in a short time, this “white paradise” would find itself having to develop vast social systems to provide for the needs of these people, including schools, hospitals, and recreation. Then these guest workers would start having babies and demanding rights and citizenship…
And then it gets worse, when the immigrants turn out to be better educated than the “Aryans,” and are the only people who can run the sewage, electrical, sanitation, health, fire, and police systems. After all, none of these clowns I’ve studied seem to be capable of running anything larger than a small demonstration, a slightly larger drinking party/music concert, or a mail-order book publishing scam. They don’t seem to be too good at holding real jobs, or running societies. Look what happened to the Aryan Nations compound in Idaho. Heck, look what happened to the South…they were terrified of and utterly dependent on their slaves.
So in this WN state the “Aryans” would have to become utterly dependent on the people they loathe…
and there goes the “White Nationalist Homeland” ballgame, huh?
Fools.
on November 23rd, 2012 at 9:49 am
I respect Lincoln as our most capable president but he greatly erred in creating a war to keep the south in the union. Since secession from Britain was the basis for our
independence, it should have been the basis for the southern secession. The remaining North would have been and still would be a much better nation unburdened by the ignorance and bigotry of the south. The cost of over 700,000
lives was far to costly to keep the south in the union.
on November 23rd, 2012 at 4:05 pm
Everybody relax, succession won’t go through..so we’ll all still have to tolerate each other
on November 24th, 2012 at 4:03 pm
You know what people have historicly done when they felt the stateor ruler was oppressing them? they left the country.
The people of stormfront, the klan and various white nationalist types are by implication race-colonizers. So armed with their fuzzy science theories and pop gun m16s why not have annother go at Rhodisia? Take off eh. Get some plane tickets to Somalia and have fun explaining your ethno-centric world view to the local warlord.
on November 24th, 2012 at 5:30 pm
Please, Let’s not give themTexas. I live here and so do lots of sane, liberal, non-racists who are deeply embaressed by this crap. These assholes are what I refer to as the ignorant and proud of it. Much more problematic is the unconscious white male entitlement that permeates so much of Americn society (not just the south). The irony here is that Texas will be one of the places that white will no longer be the mjority color sooner, rather than later. Rant on, it won’t turn the tide of history.
on November 24th, 2012 at 6:56 pm
When we start our Gay State we should hire those Transgendered Weaklings as our army. They will kick a** and not worry about taking names.
on November 26th, 2012 at 6:45 am
Because this last week was so exceedingly truncated, I am going to combine the Awards with this week’s, compensating, if such be warranted, by giving out more Awards.
on November 26th, 2012 at 8:38 am
Marc, it becomes treasonous when Americans actually act on it and, as an organized group, take up arms against the United States. Advocating such stuff as a concrete plan of action is sedition. Blowing off steam or speculating about a hypothetical future is protected by the First Amendment.
on November 26th, 2012 at 8:46 am
Kenfolk, I agree with you up to the point where you say, “Let the South secede”. That would be denying the protection of the sovereign to those of us- non-whites, non- Dominionists, or just plain centrists and liberals- who live south of the Mason-Dixon Line.
My state has Cape Canaveral. I reiterate: if these characters can’t stand living on a multicultural planet, let us launch them on their own little planetoid, engineered to be self-sustaining so long as the inhabitants can be bothered to use the built-in education programs that teach them how to maintain it.
on November 26th, 2012 at 9:03 am
Sorry, What? Your suggestion has just violated some unfortunate brach, for reasons which will appear shortly. And if you think that you are going to grow oranges in the southern counties of Georgia as the sea level rises, well, Suwannee Straits, q.v.
Mr. Owen, we have a very strict Hays Office keeping order here. Before a certain attack by MRA’s, they were so strict that I had to write my present age as LXIX. They relaxed a bit afterwards, so we may now allude to towns named Tomball, Peach Bottom, Onancock, and Assawoman, but you will rarely see the disorder that prevails elsewhere.
Kiwiwriter, you are a marvel. As I explained, multiple awards will be given out the coming weekend; you have just cornered yourself a Golden Anvil.
on November 26th, 2012 at 9:11 am
I am curious, Kiwi. Hole-in-the-head Trema has spouted such platitudes, how did you make shim as the same individuals who spotted the same platitudes under other names, and how many of these sock puppets are shis?
on November 26th, 2012 at 9:24 am
The right wing hates America. That’s why they celebrate every bad thing that happens.
on November 26th, 2012 at 12:32 pm
Oh did you think I wouldn’t notice this?
“James said,
Here they go again. To justify tyrannical unjust and unconstitutional government; lets play our race cards.”
Please explain this “race card.” When is mentioning discrimination or prejudice against minorities NOT “playing the race card?”
“Divide and conquer. Aren’t we all Americans? Why can’t we all get along?”
Why don’t you ask the people who treat minorities as though they’re only partially American.
” Surrendering all our rights and privileges to the government only creates tyrannical government and we all suffer.”
Were you also so concerned about these things under Bush?
” The American free enterprise system is admired all over the world. It’s why everyone wants to come here. It’s produced the greatest economy ever known to mankind. ”
Actually these days plenty of people aren’t too impressed. Since neo-liberal economics continues to dominate American policy I’m not sure what you’re upset about here.
“We did build it contrary to what Obama may say. ”
Do you even know the context of that quote?
“Get government out of the way and let we the people, all the people enjoy the prosperity.”
Yeah see we tried this back in the so-called Gilded Age. It didn’t work out too well. We’ve been trying it again since the 1980s, and it’s not working out.
on November 26th, 2012 at 12:56 pm
Rey, don’t forget Coxsackie, NY.
on November 26th, 2012 at 1:15 pm
And Fucking, Austria. One must never forget about Fucking.
on November 26th, 2012 at 3:01 pm
Aron, did the Fuckingers vote to change the name of their town, or do they wish to keep commemorating sixth-century Count Fucko? (No, you can’t make it up).
Peace, Hays Office: This is actual history and geography.
on November 26th, 2012 at 3:01 pm
Wank, Germany
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=.....&z=15
on November 26th, 2012 at 3:14 pm
Don’t forget Intercourse, PA which the MRA are always attempting to find but instead they always wind up in Blue Ball :)
on November 26th, 2012 at 3:46 pm
Maybe that’s where Deep Ecology went? Though for some reason I doubt he would even get close.
on November 26th, 2012 at 3:47 pm
A couple more for our growing atlas of potty-mouth place names:
Fanny, WV
Tittie Butte, OR
on November 26th, 2012 at 4:27 pm
Actually, in the afore-mentioned Austrian town, you have a choice of stops, in Unterfucking or Oberfucking. Across the border, at the Wankberg, you can stay at the Wankhaus.
on November 26th, 2012 at 4:29 pm
For those who need inspiration to diet, there’s Elephant Butte.
on November 26th, 2012 at 4:54 pm
Actually, Elephant Butte is in New Mexico.
on November 26th, 2012 at 4:57 pm
And then there’s Peterhead, Aberdeenshire, Scotland.
on November 26th, 2012 at 8:30 pm
aadila,
I drove past Wank on my way to Austria this summer. The parents of my god-daughter were in the car and unfamiliar with the English connotations of the word. I think what amused them most was the simple economy of the word compared to the German equivalent (Selbstbefriedigung).
As I struggle to make this comment relevant to anything other than my inner Beavis, I actually thought of StormFront as I read the Ausfahrt (exit) sign pointing the way to Wank. The road leading to that village is called the Wank Bahn and I cannot think of a better nickname for StormFront than the Wank Bahn.
I’m hoping the moderator has a sense of humour tonight. (Please delete if this is a duplicate post)
on November 26th, 2012 at 8:32 pm
Reynardine wrote:
“I am curious, Kiwi. Hole-in-the-head Trema has spouted such platitudes, how did you make shim as the same individuals who spotted the same platitudes under other names, and how many of these sock puppets are his?”
It wasn’t hard to spot Trema’s nonsense…I’ve seen his exact literary style on sporadic occasions in this blog, and he gives himself away by stylistic repetition. He spills the same blather about “anti-racist is a code word for anti-white,” and he has it all over his web page. Also on the petition he sent to the White House (which I stumbled on by pure chance), demanding that President Obama work to eliminate non-white immigration to “white” countries. I cracked up over that one.
Trema changes his name every time he posts, but his line of drivel, that never changes. So he changes his MO, but not his signature.
As for James suggesting that the government “get out of the way, and let the people enjoy prosperity,” he can share those views with slaves in the first half of the 19th century, and child laborers in factories in the second half of the 19th century, and miners and auto workers in the first half of the 20th.
The slaves, child workers, miners, and automobile workers, were absolutely delighted when the government “got in the way,” as they absolutely were NOT enjoying any “prosperity” under their working conditions.
An example: Right into the 20th century, coal miners in West Virginia worked under the muzzles of company machine-guns. They were paid in company scrip, which was only redeemable for goods and services at the company store, required to live in company towns, furnished with company furniture, and their pay was deducted for everything from pickaxe sharpening to electricity in their company huts. If they went on strike, their company scrip ceased to have value, and the coal company could toss them out of their company homes and seize their furniture. Coal miners were indeed perpetually indebted to the company store, often paying off back debts owed by family members killed in the mines. It was little more than slavery.
It took a U.S. Supreme Court decision (oddly enough, by Chief Justice William Howard Taft, no friend of unions) to require coal companies to pay their workers in real money, not company scrip. Kind of puts a hole in that theory that the government should get out of the way and generate prosperity.
Some of these people with foggy nostalgia for an America that never existed should study their history instead of listening to Rush Limbaugh and reading Anne Coulter. The “good old days” were terrible.
on November 27th, 2012 at 3:10 am
If you dont know the constitution you need to. The government CANNOT deny a state or states the right to leave the union if they choose to do so. THAT IS A FACT. Some of you have blind faith in our government. Your dumb as a bag of hammers if you think we dont have the right to secede.
on November 27th, 2012 at 3:30 am
Michael Parker:
Reparations for 500 yrs of slavery? Lolol why not get paid for the suffering your relatives are enduring now bc they enslaved each other in africa now as we speak. They are black so ty hey aint gotta pay right?
on November 27th, 2012 at 6:34 am
“James,” my adorable Hostess (oopsie, another causulty of vulture capitalism) Cupcake, in a truly “free market” system you have a small handful of ultra rich people who own everything and everyone else is essentially a serf. What you would have is exactly what the U.S. had before the U.S. really got serious in enforcing the Sherman Act around 1905 or so and then after a conservative Supreme Court effectively amended the Sherman Act in the Standard Oil case in 1911 then passed the Clayton Act. That is to say that if you think Wal-Mart is pervasive and invasive in its influence over American society now, imagine if there was no Target or K-Mart (that’s actually not too difficult now) and forget about grocery stores and small businesses – to compete with them. And freed from competition the Waltons could charge you for whatever they want for the rancid meat (no government meat inspection after all) they sell to you.
Imagine if you want to buy a car and all that are available are Model T’s because Ford never had to improve to compete with other carmakers – and you had to pay whatever the current Ford family wanted to charge. And to fill up your Model T, you had to go to Standard Oil and had to pay whatever price the Rockefellers wanted to charge. And forget about computers – they wouldn’t exist without massive government spending. Maybe you would have the radio to listen to for entertainment – if you could find a signal since there would be no government division of broadcast signals. Of course, the corporate interests who own the radio signals would tell you what to think (um, actually that is pretty close to what goes on now since the FCC got rid of the Fairness Doctrine). Then you could go to your job – perhaps as a coal miner, maybe being a railroad brakeman (a job that was so dangerous in the 19th Century that courts including the United States Supreme Court held that merely taking it qualified as assumption of the risk and contributory negligence baring recovery when you were inevitably killed or maimed), maybe working in the engine room of an ocean liner (you think that airplanes and capable of traveling across an ocean would exist without government spending?), or working 14 hours a day 6 days a weak in a hot factory surrounded by dangerous machinery which could chop you to bits for 15 cents an hour (maybe by now, they’d be up to a dollar). Whatever job you take it will be unpleasant, dangerous, and pay next to nothing (for women, by the way, prostituion or housekeeping for a rich family would be the only available jobs after your husband got sliced to bits in an industrial accident (and no pensions, workers comp, and definitely no Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid)).
That is what a truly free market system looks like.
If you think that wealth is unbalanced now, put in a truly free market system. Of course, no one (least of all the capitalists who know that for most of them their gig would be up) really wants a truly free market system. Quite simply, a truly free market system would destroy itself through massive monopolies which control everything and result in stagnation of technology and massive suffering of the exploited which eventually would result in revolution (study the history of the labor movement and you see that gains in labor only occurred because the ultra rich got so scared of a Communist revolution that they threw the workers some bones – and study the history of “capitalism” and you learn that it took government intervention through antitrust laws to assure competition.)
The rich didn’t allow a middle class to exist out of the goodness of their hearts – they did it because it promotes their interest. Big government doesn’t exist in spite of and in opposition of capitalism and “free markets” – it exists because of – and to support and preserve – “free market” captialism.
And as far as who built it, the Republican National Convention took place in a publicly built (but privately profiting) arena. That is all you really need to know. But if you want to look further, the computing industry is entirely based upon big government spending. Roads (and railroads, air travel, and ships/barges) – government. The military, police, fire departments, sanitation including sanitary sewers, clean water – government. Education – government.
The fact is that “we the people” (see the opening line of the Constitution) built this country – its just the rich which have seized the spoils for their own. Don’t be fooled that our life is better now – the rich didn’t share the spoils of this land out of the goodness of their hearts. They shared it because our ancestors fought for the union and forced them to share it. And they needed to share some or run a strong risk of losing everything (in the Railroad Strike of 1877 there were general strikes and revolut which almost successfully overthrew the government in several cities most notably Pittsburgh).
(and yes, ironically that does kind of prove Adam Smith’s point – but he was right that capitalists do not provide things out of the goodness of their heart – to the devotees of Mammon, self interest overrides all. But do the modern devotees of Mammon realize that it is not always in your best interest to be greedy?)
Big corporations need big government for their survival. What the Republicans (the party of Mammon or for the KJV only folks “Filthy Lucre”) ultimately want is the ultimate dream of the capitalist pigs: to socialize risk of failure (bailouts!) while privitizing gains and privatize everything. In other words, big government is just another way for the Mitt Romney’s (as an aside, isn’t it lovely that he will solely go down in history as the embodiment and symbol of Mammon worship in the early 21st Century?) of the world to shovel more wealth upwards to themselves. The Republicans do not want to abolish big government – they want to privatize it (e.g. private accounts rather than Social Security which completely defeats the point of Social Security being a guaranteed insurance program). They are now even trying to turn formerly free roads into toll roads that they can sell to private enterprize to run. And there is also the lovely private prisons and even in places private police forces. And yes, “free market” is nothing but a slogan because they know that in a truly free market there is only one winner and a whole lot of losers.
They don’t want to limit government – they want to exploit government just like they want to exploit everything else – for profit. And they don’t care who they hurt to make money or even if their profit is sustainable. These people know that if America blows up they can move to their own private island or Switzerland or whatever. They have no loyalty to this country. The rest of us Americans are screwed.
Capital knows no bounderies and the dream of the capitalists has always been a global free market where money, people, and goods can move freely around the world and the only worship permitted is the worship of Mammon – yes, they are currently trying to use Christianity to their own advantage now, but as long as copies of The Bible exist people might actually read what Jesus (and the Apostles) said about wealth. They aren’t going to take that risk forever – all of this business about Christianity and Moslems – its just a distraction to fool the rubes as the ultra rich divide the spoils of the world among themselves.
Division of people among races and ethnicity is the same thing – the fact is that if you study your Southern history you will find that the Southern elites have long used racism to divide poor whites and their natural class allies blacks. In 1968, Richard Nixon took it national through the somewhat misnamed “Southern Strategy” finding out that exploiting racial tension worked not only in Birmingham but also in Boston. Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush took it to its logical extreme using racism and bigotry as the means to shovel wealth upwards.
Thankfully, it seems that this bigotry and division is failing (in part because as the older generations die out and newer generations who grew up going to integrated schools take over racial appeals have lost much of its strength – naturally the Mammon devotee’s response is to destroy the schools). Too bad that while the Republicans are the Party of Mammon the Democrats are the Party of Mammon Lite. Its just the Democrats represent smart capitalists who actually understand that it is not always in your interest to be greedy and that their wealth is due to – and not in spite of – big government.
on November 27th, 2012 at 8:34 am
Infantryman? My co-author was in the infantry when he had a blast concussion from a grenade, and he makes MUCH more sense than you.
on November 27th, 2012 at 9:25 am
Infantryman, please read the first line of the Constitution “We the People of the United States of America in order to establish a more perfect union . . . .”
What does that mean? If you actually paid attention in history class in school, you’d know that the Constitution was created in response to the failure of the Articles of Confederation (first line “We the States of the United States of America”) which was essentially a combination of indepedent states.
Thus, the Constitution is not and never has been a union of states – instead, it was specifically designed to be a union of people. The people are sovereign under our federal system and the sovereignity clause clearly places the federal government above the states. That is because the federal government was supposed to represent all of the people of the United States.
As such, states do not have the right to secede because this was never an agreement of states. You, however, are free to move someplace else and renounce your American citizenship. A tip, sweetie, you better make sure that some other country will actually accept you first. Its always been perfectly legal for individual people to leave the U.S. – what is not legal is for you to leave the U.S. and keep the benefits of being an American including a claim to ownership of this particular portion of the North American landmass. If you are going to secede from the U.S. that means that you have to move to some other country who is willing to take you first.
on November 27th, 2012 at 10:04 am
A variation on the original Awards, Erika: you get the Gold Lorgnette for your high-class reading of the Riot Act for various and sundry.
on November 27th, 2012 at 10:41 am
@ Infantryman,
The Constitution provides a mechanism for the admission of new states but does not provide, or even mention, a process for leaving the Union. I refer you to Article Four, Section Three.
on November 27th, 2012 at 12:54 pm
“Reparations for 500 yrs of slavery? Lolol why not get paid for the suffering your relatives are enduring now bc they enslaved each other in africa now as we speak. They are black so ty hey aint gotta pay right?”
1. Blacks in America and black people in Africa are not the same, in the same way you are not European.
2. Whatever happened or happens in Africa has nothing to do with the issue of reparations. Reparations are paid because one party profited from the unpaid labor of another. Africa did not benefit from the slave trade; in fact it was detrimental to Africans.
on November 27th, 2012 at 3:56 pm
As an annex to Gregory’s good counsels, Infantryman needs to look at Article Three, Section Three of the Constitution, assuming he has not already used the document to line his birdcage.
Nota bene, the word “infantry” derives from the roots “not speaking”. Let’s make good on the promise and spare us the weasel words, shall we?
on November 28th, 2012 at 1:41 pm
The SPLC should support White separatists, neo-Nazis and Klan-sympathizers moving to the hills of Idaho. Not that much of a threat there. :) Win win for both the WN’s and the SPLC, and all the radical Leftists that don’t want Big Bad Biggots in dey towns. Far more logical than the whole moon business. lol.
on November 29th, 2012 at 8:55 am
“Mitch,”
“… all the radical Leftists that don’t want Big Bad Biggots in dey towns.”
1. Learn to spell. There’s only one G in bigot.
2. What is this “dey” thing? If you’re mocking someone else’s ungrammatical speech or slang, you really need to make sure your own speech is above reproach (see No. 1).
3. Do you really mean to say that only “radical Leftists” oppose bigotry? If so, it would seem to imply that you believe bigotry is good, which in turn must imply that you don’t know what the word means. Let me help you:
“Bigot – a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially: one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance.” (Merriam-Webster)
Who – left, right or indifferent – could find anything to like about that?
on November 29th, 2012 at 9:33 am
Mitch, no. We don’t want our potatoes crawling with biggots.
on November 29th, 2012 at 10:23 am
not shocking at all. but interesting considering the pains many texas nationalists have taken to distance themsevles from the impossible-to-avoid connections to the first time they tried this. but so far has anyone uncovered clear connections between texas nationalists and klan/WN/WP organizations? basically, are there any obivous steve smith’s in this group?
on December 8th, 2012 at 11:45 pm
The secessionist movement is about protesting a Vichy Goldman Sachs Government. The NWO aka IMF, Wall Street, War Profiteers who are dominating the globe. A two party system that represents no one but the One percent. No one gives a rat’s ass that Obama won, they care that none of us on either side of the real debate got a real choice of any representation and end to the takeover of this country by the richest few on the planet.
Thanks for shoving out the Divide and Conquer Rhetoric that keeps the ‘” neo nazis” running the show. WTF
on December 10th, 2012 at 9:39 am
Textynn, I think you are taking out your wrath in the wrong quarter and allying yourself with some of the wrong people.
on December 10th, 2012 at 6:43 pm
“Thus, the Constitution is not and never has been a union of states – instead, it was specifically designed to be a union of people. The people are sovereign under our federal system and the sovereignity clause clearly places the federal government above the states. That is because the federal government was supposed to represent all of the people of the United States.
As such, states do not have the right to secede because this was never an agreement of states.”
Just so that you know, Infantryman, all the above totalitarian and collectivist memes emanating from our cute little propagandist friend Erika were thoroughly refuted by the majority of the parties who ratified the Constitution of the United States. The Debates on the Constitution state plainly that it was the Anti-Federalists who prevailed in their quest to stymie the potential for unlimited totalitarian power centered in the new government. Besides, only the few most radical big-government Federalist Party members at the Convention shared Erika’s desires to wield unlimited Napoleonic power over the American people, thus destroying the States. That being said, it’s Question Time, Erika-dear! Why would a handful of states fight a war to throw off the chains and shackles of an imperial mother country, whose purpose was to gain INDEPENDENCE from said country, and then turn right back around and agree to the full surrender of their freedom to a new government to be shared in one big collective mass with all of their fellow states? Keep in mind this includes the industrialized manufacturing empire of the New England states, full of Anglo-Saxon Puritans, on one extreme end of the cultural spectrum, and the Anglo-Celtic and Scots-Irish cotton-and-tobacco Anglican and Presbyterian kingdom south of the Mason-Dixon Line. Most of the people of those respective regions had never even met each other. All of the states had constitutional republican governments in the summer of 1787. It was each individual state legislature which duly and freely ratified the Constitution of their own consent, without direct intervention by any outside parties. Where’s the big polyglot mass-union of stateless people, from Massaginialinayorksylvania, you know, inherent in THAT process? The Anti-Federalist parties responsible for ratification made it explicitly clear that they would never give up all they had just worked so hard for several years previously and just throw their sovereignty into the fire of a Federalist Party Constitution, and they stated that they, the representatives of their independent STATES, were retaining all powers for themselves as the mostly independent states they were, which they did not consensually give to the new federal government. As such, there were these last 2 amendments which created the finale of the Constitution and Bill of Rights package, Numbers IX and X. Sorry, my dear Erika, the Debates on the Constitution are on the public library shelves, where anybody can read the info you don’t want us to know, and we can find out the truth about the American system of government. Only a government created exclusively by the Federalist Parrty and thus devoid of a Bill of Rights, would fall under the silly description you gave.
on December 11th, 2012 at 11:35 am
Brock,
For the love of all that is holy, please use paragraph breaks. Aside from the fact that you are longing for an America that ceased to exist after the Articles of Confederation were replaced, your writing is entirely unreadable.
And you are NOWHERE near as smart as you think you are.
on December 11th, 2012 at 5:28 pm
Brock, the best evidence for what was decided at the Constitutional Convention in 1787 comes from the actual text of the Constitution. And quite simply, the Federalist’s position won in that the Constitution was styled as an agreement of the people and the government of the United States of America was made supreme (in the Supremacy Clause, Article VI, Clause 2 – and Article VI, Clause 3 which requires all state officials to take an oath or affirmation to support the Constitution also compltely destroys it).
Quite simply, if the federal government was a weak allignment of states, those clauses would not have been added. i’m also pretty sure that Article I, Section 8 would be much shorter :)
As far as the Bill of Rights, actually try reading them to see who the Bill of Rights protects – hint, its not the state. Its the people who are the people who the Constitution was an agreement of. Only the “reserved powers” clause of the Tenth Amendment mentions states at all and even that says “reserved to the states respectively, or to the people” which places the people as the ultimate sovereign power
In any case, the ratification of the Fourteenth Amendment following the Civil War absolutely ended any doubt that the Constitution places the people as the sovereign.
You are also simply clueless in that the primary defense against tyranny in the Constitution (and state constitutions from the period) was placed in separation of powers and checks and balances. The second check was the Bill of Rights – however, you are wrong and in fact totally nuts if you think that hte Bill of Rights was designed to protect states. It was designed to protect people. That reflects the period state Constitutions such as Virginia.
The fact is that the document created at the Constitutional Convention in 1787 is remarkable in that a document crafted for a purely agricultural country (the industrial revolution was just beginning in England in 1787 – industrialization in New England didn’t really start until around 1830 or so and heavy industrialization really only occurred after the Civil War) has survived essentially intact.
That is because of a combination – first, the federal government was given what have turned out to be very large powers. No one could have possibly anticipated how big interstate and international power would have become one transportation and comunications improvements made international travel, business, and movement of goods easy. However, even Justice Clarence Thomas who even Antonin Scalia thinks is a radical nutcase about the Interstate Commerce clause admits that the Commerce clause gives extraordinarily large power to the federal government. It is also undisputable that the Constitution intends that the federal government have that power.
The second is that the focus on the Constiutution is a rights focus and the Constitution created a workable government. The fact is that in a country of 312,000,0000 people (Approximately) there might be a few unsatisfied people – such as the modern neo-confederates who want to leave – however, that is a very small number. Most people whether conservative, liberal, or moderate are very happy with the system. What fights there are are fights within the Constitutional system. Even modern “state’s rights” people often acknowledge the obvious – thus, a person who argues that states should be able to legalize marijuana will point out that its obvious that the federal government can make marijuna illegal under federal law, they just think it is not a prudent policy.
That is the same type of disagreement within the margins of our Constitutional system that people have had since 1787 – that still does not ignore the fact that the Federalists won. Try actually reading the Constiuttion and Amendments and that becomes clear.
on December 11th, 2012 at 6:09 pm
Aron,
An AMERICA that ceased to exist? Please specify. That brush stroke is way too broad. A nation of people, whether real or just pretending to be (Here’s a hint to help you out: The American “nation” falls into the latter category, and always has), does not change from one form into another by way of somebody’s signature. Is that what you were talking about when you said “America” – all of its people from New England to Georgia? Well, then the reality of the situation is quite simple: No, in fact it did not, any more than it will change at the moment when Barack Obama is sworn in for a second term next month. Now, as for changes in, say, technology, which truly do have a direct felt effect on all the people when they reach them, like the mass production of the automobile, those are a different story. The America of the 19th century definitely ceased to exist when Ford started producing the Models A and T.
Of course, if you are one of those types who believes that the government is inextricably tied to the people it governs, that the government is the people and the people are the government, then I understand where you’re coming from – the viewpoint of totalitarian statism.
As for The Articles of Confederation’s replacement with the Constitution, yes, there were changes which gave the new Federal Constitutional Republic more powers over the handful of several constitutional republics which created it, more than the Confederation had, that is. They are listed amongst the original 7 articles of the Constitution. The Anti-Federalists who were the driving force behind The Bill of Rights made sure those few necessary powers were kept in check and that the rest of the rights inherent in autonomous and mostly-independent government remained with the States.
For the purpose of remaining humble before the God I serve, I strive everyday to not think myself overly smart, thank you for your concern. How are you in that department?
on December 11th, 2012 at 8:04 pm
Ha, this Ruslan character surely has a full head on his neck. I’ll just start from the top and work my way down!
“America got rich off of stolen land and cotton picked by slaves.”
Whites and Native Americans picked cotton, too. Is land stolen by one nation of people when it successfully fights a war for it against another? Nope! No more than the Normans stole England from the Anglo-Saxons in 1066, or the Ottoman Empire stole Turkey from the Byzantines in 1453!
” . . . the “white” phenotype, which has been defined and redefined numerous times since the late 17th century isn’t going extinct.”
The boundaries of our solar system, galaxy, and the universe have been rediscovered and redefined over the centuries also. Is it impossible for those to go extinct, even though countless stars and their systems have done just that over the eons?
“But they’re not alive, and it doesn’t matter what they think. They lived in the 18th century. If you think we should run things strictly according to the ideas of men from the 18th century then there’s no reason not to run things according to the ideas of men from the 16th century, or the 15th, or so on. We can start by getting rid of this Internet thing. I’m sure the Founding Fathers wouldn’t approve of it.”
Yes, tell us how much you hate the American definition of freedom and liberty. I do enjoy it when a leftist finally quits beating around the bush and just says flat-out that it’s time to forget Jefferson, Madison, Washington, and Adams, and that pesky and outdated Constitution they devised which enshrines that definition into law.
Methods of government and technological innovations/inventions are two very different things. They wouldn’t have “disapproved” of the internet any more than they would the microwave, light bulb, phone, or internal combustion engine.
“Yes, of course. That’s why you fight to ban abortion, restrict birth control, and deny gay people their civil rights. It’s because you care so deeply about freedom.”
Yes, because there IS a broad array of these things called “civil rights” which have all been COMPLETELY AGREED UPON by the American people, and codified into law in strict accordance with the methods required by the Constitution of the U.S. Oh, wait, no there isn’t and no they haven’t! And yes, contraception and abortion have everything to do with freedom. Oh, wait – nah, never mind, sarcasm gets tiresome after awhile.
“Technically it’s not entirely your money since you didn’t print it,”
A believer in totalitarian statist government, on the SPLC blog roll, imagine that! Then again, sarcasm doesn’t bore me too easily.
” . . . and you don’t do all the necessary labor which is required to maintain the dollar as a stable currency.”
Uh, what could the American middle class buy with its wages, say, a century ago, as opposed to now? Yeah . . . stable currency . . . right.
on December 11th, 2012 at 8:29 pm
“See there’s a reason why it was called the Union of Soviet Socialist REPUBLICS. The relationship of the republics was radically different from that of the states and the US federal government. The basis for the break-up of the USSR was the Soviet constitution itself, which gave all union republics the right of self-determination up to secession. Please find the part of the US constitution that sounds that way.”
Ruslan definitely didn’t major in U.S. History. The states that ratified the U.S. Constitution WERE THEMSELVES independent constitutional republics! Read each of their individual constitutions they had on their books at the time of ratification. They gave up only the powers spelled out in the original 7 articles of the new Federal Constitution.
“Yeah see we tried this back in the so-called Gilded Age. It didn’t work out too well.”
Since Day 1 of its existence, the GOP has been the party big corporations have gone to for government subsidies in order to get rich at the expense of the common folk and eliminate competition from them. They ruled the government with the exception of a couple of Cleveland presidencies during the Gilded Age. That does not equate to “getting government out of the way.” You have to go back to the Antebellum period to really observe an American economy without government intervention.
“We’ve been trying it again since the 1980s, and it’s not working out.”
Wrong.
on December 12th, 2012 at 8:30 am
Brock,
For someone who strives to ‘remain humble before the god you serve, by striving not to think himself too intelligent,’ you sure do exhibit an extraordinary amount of smugness.
I remember reading something about pride going before the fall. But I could just be imagining that.
And for now, I shall put my arguments in the able hands of dear Erika, who will use her lawyerly wisdom to pulverize your arguments far better than I, a mere historian of military technology could hope to do in this field.
on December 12th, 2012 at 9:05 pm
“Whites and Native Americans picked cotton, too. Is land stolen by one nation of people when it successfully fights a war for it against another? Nope! No more than the Normans stole England from the Anglo-Saxons in 1066, or the Ottoman Empire stole Turkey from the Byzantines in 1453!”
Here is the difference between the slaves and the Irish immigrants: Firstly, they CHOSE to immigrate, hence the term “Immigrant”.
Secondly, they were not kept in centuries of slavery in order to pick this cotton, work the land, and perform other tasks. No one went to Ireland, looked for Irish, brought them here piled up in boats like wood, haggled over them like livestock, separated their families, punished attempts at education or independence, nor did the U.S. use terror to erase any cultural connection to their homelands. The Irish did not have their ethnicity used to define “blackness” in order to make sure that they, and their descendants would be owned by their masters indefinitely. They were not the targets of anti-north backlash and force to live in slavery-like conditions after being “freed”, laws were not put in place that would decide their “humanity” or “lack of it”. They were not kept in an apartheid until the modern era and then told to “move on” once that apartheid wasn’t profitable or “attractive” to their oppressors anymore.
. The Irish were NOT slaves, and the anti-Irish oppression they faced was manipulated and gradually reduced when it was deemed profitable to promote them to “white” at the expense of black people. For you to imply that the prejudice the Irish experienced somehow negates the severity of chattel slavery and it’s impact on future generations is just ridiculous, and frankly rather offensive.
What happened to the Native Americans in-masse was not related to the institution of slavery (except for those occasions where nations offered shelter to escaped slaves), nor should the genocide inflicted upon them be used so that you can make a rather nonsensical argument
And the genocide of the indigenous people of America was not a “war”. It was a genocide. It would do you well to learn the difference before you attempt to justify such horrible things so nonchalantly.
on December 13th, 2012 at 7:01 am
Aron, i may well have to disappoint you since i really am having a hard time figuring out exactly what Brock is talking about – as far as i can tell, he seems to believe that the idea of a “government of the people, by the people, and for the people” is a totalitarian idea which definitely seems odd.
i also wonder whether Brock has actually ever read the Constitution – i would recommend that he do so – its not very long, a quick read (be sure to read the Amendments – hint, the due process and equal protections clauses of Amendment XIV are very important) and you are sure to learn something.
Brock somehow also thinks that the Bill of Rights were designed to protect the states or that the Constitution is nothing but a Confederation of essentially independent states. That is clearly wrong. Again, he really needs to read the Constitution – in this case, he could stop after the first line “We the People of the United States of America in order to establish a more perfect union.”
The rest of his comments about history are quite strange – including the fact that he believes that the federal government did not intervene in the economy prior to the Civil War (odd since most Neo-Confederates and States Rights people argue that the “War of Northern Aggression” was fought due to tariffs and not slavery) – as the note should suggest this is clearly wrong. The federal government was relatively small at that point because there was relatively little interstate and foreign commerce. However, more rational historians would note that prior to the Civil War there were already major changes taking place due to improved transportation due to steam power.
Steam power was also leading to more industrialization primarily in the north (in the south only Richmond, Virginia had significant private industry) which essentially transformed the country.
The Constitution was completely transformed after the Civil War with the Fourteenth Amendment destroying any argument that the Constitution is a allignment of independent states – quite simply, the Fourteenth Amendment requires the states to protect the rights protected in the Bill of Rights through the Equal Protection and Due Process clauses. It also requires the states to recognize all people born in the United States or Naturalized thereof as citizens. The states under the Fourthteenth Amendment are also required to obey federal law.
Another factor which shows that your view is wrong is the 1824 decision in Gibbons v. Odgen which created the basis for what is legally known as the “negative commerce clause” which states that states are not allowed to interfere with interstate commerce. That decision was written by John Marshall who was of course a Federalist (appointed by Federalist President John Adams who was one of the leading Federalists along with Alexander Hamilton, and James Madison (primary authors of The Federalist Papers along with John Jay) – George Washington, btw was also a leading Federalist so that should tell you which side won the debate over the Constitution).
While it is doubtful that the founding fathers would recognize the country, that is due to technological changes in communication and transportation. The governmental structure has with some amendments (the Civil War Amendments and the Progressive Era Amendments are the most important but neither altered the fundamental relationship between the federal governments and the states and to the extent that they altered the relationship between the states and the people it was to provide more power and protections of the people).
But quite simply, anyone who thinks that hte Bill of Rights was intended to protect the states has obviously never read the actual Constitution. Hint, you are better off learning what the Constitution says from actually reading it rather than listening to a snake oil salesman like Glenn Beck. Or you can read some judges – in my opinion the best to read are Justice Cardozo (maybe the best judicial writer ever), Judge Posner of the Seventh Circuit (both for his excellent judicial opinions which probably more than any other judge explains legal theory and his books but beware that some of his opinions are extremely kooky but he’s a great writer and will always make you think even (especially?) as you are ready to throw the book), Justice Scalia (beware that Scalia sometimes just makes things up as he admitted in Lucas v. South Carolina Coastal Commission but he’s a truly a great writer and best explains the modern conservative view of the judiciary), Justice Stevens (the last great traditional conservative jurist – his opinions are often truly awesome in their respect for judicial restraint and individual rights – naturally by the time he retired, he was considered a liberal because of the rise of modern judicial conservativism), Justice Ginsburg (she is extremely underrated as a writer and a very good explainer of the law from a traditional judicial liberal/moderate viewpoint), Justice Breyer (former law professor at Harvard and a very good legal writer), Justice Brennen (look here or Chief Justice Warren for judicial liberalism), Justice John Marshall (for the 19th Century view), and Justice Black (the greatest textualist in American judicial history – what to know what the Constitution really says, read Justice Hugo Black’s opinions).
on December 13th, 2012 at 10:53 am
Erika, I think I love you. Will you anonymously e-marry me? ;D
on December 18th, 2012 at 4:07 am
Ace, please understand that I know the tactics of Cultural Marxism. Label the wars against Native Americans for conquest of the American frontier “genocide,” for the purpose of demoralizing the people concerning their history, that is. But if your intentions are more noble than theirs, and you truly believe what you said, then the floor is yours for demonstrating how those wars constitute a mass murder of people, akin to, say, McVeigh the American in Oklahoma City, killing a couple hundred of his FELLOW AMERICANS. The Native American tribes were a handful of many separate and sovereign communities of people, and the American colonists from Europe were totally alien armies/communities of people to the Natives. They did not share the same history, and were not members of one single country under one governmental jurisdiction. That being said, please explain how the American colonial wars against the Natives were any different than any other wars of one nation-state against another. War can be atrocious, yes, but genocidal?
Erika, no, I did not say that the Feds NEVER intervened in the economy prior to the Civil War. I simply said you have to go back that far in order to find periods of time free of the type of regulations and interventions the American economy has since seen in the corporatist postbellum era. First I should clarify that I mean regulations and interventions stronger and more intrusive than the original system of tariffs and excise taxes. Of course there were always those, as there is no such thing as a completely free market of goods and services.
I have read the Declaration, Articles, Constitution, Federalist Papers, Anti-Federalist Papers, and all the debates and state ratification statements. What we can glean from these documents meshes quite finely with logic: No state fought to be free of an imperial government just a few years earlier just to turn right around and give it up to a new one they would be tricked into consenting to. The type of radical Federalist Party interpretation you are advancing makes the Constitution into a document paving the way for an American Empire, not a federal constitutional republic created by consent of several independent states. The monster grandfathered by that party in Wisconsin in 1854, the Republican Party, gave you what you wanted when it captured the presidency a few years afterward, though, so the Convention in Philly in 1787 was only a total loss for your ideological ancestors for three quarters of a century.
Yes, I bet you’d like to assert that the text on its face is the key to knowing what it means, since the most wiley and sneaky authoritarian Federalists, the rats that Patrick Henry smelled, wrote it. But I’m sorry, dear Erika. James Madison, the most principled Federalist at the Convention, stated what simple logic dictates on that subject, that the only true meaning of the Constitution adopted by the United States is what the people represented in their individual statehouses RATIFIED, not what Mr. Hamilton and Mr. Madison WROTE. The verdict from such documents does not favor you and your ideological kind, Erika. The statements of ratification from most of the individual statehouses affirm the Anti-Federalist standpoint and make it plain that the people sent their representatives FROM THEIR RESPECTIVE STATES to ratify a document which would reserve to their newly independent state governments a plenary list of rights of self-government which did not conflict with the rights they knowingly gave up to the new federal government. They were tricked into sending delegates to debate a whole new constitution, anyway, rather than what they were under the impression was going to be debated – just a few minor changes to the Articles of Confederation.
Marbury vs. Madison started the downward spiral from republic to empire on the judicial front. Therefore the names of each and every one of those jurists and their silly fulminations and prevarications are useless for the purpose of a true understanding of the American Constitutional system of government. Thank you.
on December 19th, 2012 at 6:12 am
Yet Brock, in the end all of the original 13 states even the ones where the Anti-Federalists were powerful voted to ratify the Constitution anyway.
You can read all you want – and frankly, i do not believe that you actually have because then you would know about the Supremacy Clause, that the Bill of Rights protects people and not states, and that the Fourteenth Amendment put a definitive end to any notion (which was wrongheaded from the start) that the Constitution was a union of states and not a union of people. i believe that you have simply been listening to conmen like Glenn Beck and David Barton who are not historians but are proven liars.
Nobody mainstream agrees with you – not even Clarence Thomas or Antonin Scalia (who is at least honest enough to admit that “original intent” like The Bible can be used to prove almost anything – seriously, he admitted that “original intent” really means “what Antonin Scalia thinks” in Lucas v. South Carolina Coastal Commission). That should tell you something. The best way to tell intent is through the original document and the Supremacy Clause – as well as the creation of a Supreme Court who can review state court decisions – clearly makes it clear that the intended result of that sauage making in Philadelphia was to create a federal system where the federal government is supreme.
And btw, genius, having actually read Marbury v. Madison, i can also tell you that it actually limited the power of the federal government by striking down an Act of Congress as being unconstitutional. That you do not realize that makes me seriously question whether you have actually read anything. Well, maybe Glenn Beck’s book or one of those “Politically Incorrect Guides” which obviously contain a misprint in that they included an extra word in the title – it should have been “Incorrect Guide” (and if you are a fan of irony, one can note that they actually contain the Politically Correct view according to right wingers).
on December 19th, 2012 at 4:39 pm
Yes, grandstand all you want by throwing personal invective and potshots at real professors in their fields. People who challenge the authority of a totalitarian imperial government with documented words from the men who originally consented to its creation will always be hated by said totalitarian government’s apologists. As for Beck and Barton, I do not heed the words of idiots, clowns, and charlatans, thank you. Fox News and the Religious Right are pathetic institutions.
The act of a court – a branch of the government! – in striking down a law made by the legislative branch, is therefore an expansion of the government’s power, Madame Mensa. It’s just one out of three, but the court is part of the government. What law school did you go to? Good God. However you slice it concerning the question of the expansion or limitation of the government’s power, Marbury vs. Madison was the beginning of the end of Constitutional government for the simple reason that under the Constitution that was ratified by the people through their state legislatures from 1787-90, the Supreme Court does NOT have the right to review an act of Congress. I’m not an inconsistent double-talking right-winger, you know. I fully affirm that this means that unconstitutional legislation that I hate which comes from Congress must stand just as much as legislation I support. New Deal legislation, the Immigration Act of 1965, the Affordable Care Act, things like that.
No, nobody “mainstream” agrees with me. The reason is because an imperial government which is not limited in any meaningful way in the scope and reach of its power is what we wake up to in an American morning today. Clarence and Antonin no more adhere to that document which has not been the law of the land in America for a century and a half, anymore than you do.
Must you throw about silly little self-glorifying jabs like I haven’t actually read all those documents? Let’s get this out of the way right now, little chick. You have read the Constitution, and those other aforementioned documents, I’m sure, and so have I. I don’t like pulling out any tomes from my shelf for the one purpose of scanning them for certain passages or quotes, but just ask me to, and I will. Madison’s statement about the intentions of the writers of a constitutional document being totally secondary to those of the parties who RATIFIED it is the most important one, methinks.
It is quite telling how your ultimate justification for the American Empire is the successful prosecution of a war AGAINST ITS OWN FELLOW CITIZENS, followed by an amendment which was never at any time ratified by the due and free consent, without intervention from outside parties, that is, of the requisite number of states. The war waged against its own citizens places your precious empire into a notorious little crowd including the Third Reich, the Soviet Union, and Maoist China, by the way.
on December 20th, 2012 at 10:58 am
Oh Brock, so you’re a 14th Amendmenter? That tells me everything I could ever need to know about you.
Any credibility you once (never) had has just flown out the window.
(And remember which side started the Civil War: it wasn’t the Federals.)
on December 20th, 2012 at 1:39 pm
Actually it’s all amendments from XIII to the end whose Constitutional legitimacy we fail to see. That name you call us kind of runs afoul of logic, just like most left-wing beliefs, because we Fourteenthers are AGAINST recognition of an amendment that was never freely ratified by a handful of constitutionally federated republics making up one federal constitutional republic, as the Constitution was ratified to create. Wouldn’t that make us ANTI-Fourteenthers, Mr. Credibility?
The first shot fired doth not a war start. It starts combat, yes, but not a war.
on December 21st, 2012 at 6:33 am
Brock, while your entire constitutional theory is completely ludicrous my favorite part is your anti-judicial review argument. So basically, you are against that whole checks and balances thing? Why not, you actually oppose the entire Constiution and no doubt wave the Confederate flag of treason. Of all of the things i never thought i’d see, it would be someone who loves the Articles of Confederacy. Seriously, you act as if the Articles of Confederacy are still the law of the land and that the Constitution was nothing but changes to the Articles of Confederacy.
i have some news for you, sweetie, the Articles of Confederacy are dead and gone. The Fourteenth Amendment was added legally in accordance with the Constitution – the Confederate states admitted defeat and wanted to rejoin the union and ratification of the Fourteenth Amendment was one of the conditions that the legitimate governmeny of the United States set – almost all of the former Confederates voluntarily renounced sessession and reaffirmed allegiance to the United States. Furthermore, the reconstruction southern governments who ratified it were legitimate governments and were supported by many former Confederates. Many former Confederates later became public officials in the U.S. pledging an allegiance to the U.S. In fact, under the Constituion, state officials are required to pledge an oath to support the U.S. Constiution.
Of course, back to your opposition of judicial review which is about the most ludicrous thing i’ve ever heard.
So if i understand you correctly, if Congres would pass a blatantly unconstitutional law – say that “Brock Henderson is declared guilty of Treason Against the United States and is wanted dead or alive with a $10,000,000 reward – and furthermore, if caught alive will be excecuted by being drawn and quartered” and that it would become law that the court system would not be able to stop it – and in fact, there would be nothing which could be done but to kill you.
In fact, i have a feeling that if that law was passed, you would be immediately looking to hire someone like me to go into court and say “Your Honor, the Brock Henderson Act is unconstitutional as a Bill of Attainder and violates the Fifth, Sixth, and Eight Amendment” – and you would say “thank you your honor for protecting the Constitution” when he properly held that law to be unconstiutional.
At least you would unless you are even stupider than i thought – good thing for you that Congress would never ever pass such a law :)
on December 21st, 2012 at 3:14 pm
“The Fourteenth Amendment was added legally in accordance with the Constitution . . . ”
“Furthermore, the reconstruction southern governments who ratified it were legitimate governments . . . ”
The Southern people who stood right next to armed U.S. Army soldiers – who were of course intervening in the process of a state’s consideration of a U.S. Constitutional amendment – while in the lines to the voting booths, would say otherwise.
You are on to something in your half-correct assumption about my preferences. I would prefer the Articles over the Constitution. But thank you, yes, in fact, I AM quite loyal to the document ratified and consented to by the people of the United States.
Not going to ask me for quotes and statements from the men in Philadelphia during that Convention, or from the state ratification documents, like I offered? Again, I don’t enjoy hunting for quotes from 2,000 pages’ worth of Debates on the Constitution, but it seems the situation calls for it. Are you scared that your views will be refuted?
on December 26th, 2012 at 12:32 pm
It sounds like Brock is hoarding Confederate currency because the “mainstream” refuses to recognize its value.
on December 27th, 2012 at 8:32 am
“We’re all bozos on this bus!”
on January 2nd, 2013 at 8:55 am
Jacob, your Firesign Theater reference just warms my heart :)